What next for Haye?

The brothers are near the end of their careers, somebody gets to win the title when they retire. If they do not retire, somebody gets to beat them when they fight one fight to many. I rate Haye as a genuine contender, one of very few to go the distance against one of the greatest heavyweights ever (yes, I know he is dull, that does not alter the fact). If Haye wants, he can go on the road, fight four times a year, clean up the division leaving the brothers no opponents, then win the title when they leave boxing for politics. Unlike Haye, they actually do have a career after boxing.

I hope Haye sticks around - hes only 30. All he needs to do is get ranked number 1 by one of these cancerous organisations and one of the Klitschko's will have to face him.

There's a lot let for Haye to do. He can bite down on his gumshield and go one more round, providing us with exciting match-ups with the likes of Polish Adamek, or he can get it on with Vitali, who is 39.

The Klitschko's wont be around forever and Haye is considerably younger then both the brothers. His time may yet come. I'd like nothing better then to see Haye atop the heavyweight pile in a few years from now. It could happen.

If Haye is going to fight one more time before he retires it can only be a rematch with Wlad or a title fight vs Vitali. there will be no point in fighting one more fight if it is not for the title.
I think Haye's biggest problem was that he wanted to conquer the heavyweight division in a short amount of time. Had Haye got more experience and put on a bit more weight and power and then fought Wlad in a few years time he may have won.

I think the way Haye promoted the fight was poor, his insults were uncalled for and his lack of respect for his opponent shows his lack of class. I think people are a bit harsh on him as previous fighters like Mike Tyson used far worse insults and people accepted this.
If think even if Haye had won against Wlad and retired he would not of been remembered as a true heavyweight champion as it is hard to win the belts but harder to defend them against hungry opponents who want to be the best.

Haye will find he's in the wilderness. How on earth people can talk of a rematch when the fight was such a one sided affair is beyond me. Make no mistake Vitalli would obliterate him but why would he fight him now? his brother won every round - job done.

Haye will find that he's now a joke in the boxing world. I've read some of the non UK press coverage and its even more critical. in america, he's a laughing stock right now. I cant see how another fight could be sold with any of the brothers, to the fans, the media or the TV stations.

Contrast Haye with Nadal. Its now emerged that Nadal sustained a hairline fracture of his foot in the 4th round last week, but he never even mentioned it yesterday after losing. That's class - david haye would do well and take note. What should he do now - I actually couldnt care less!!!

@1: I disagree about WK or VK being on a 'greatest' list. They are the best of a bad bunch. VK was beaten by Lennox Lewis at the end of his career.

Imagine how either of them would have faired against the likes of a prime Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman. They would have been nothing more than cannon fodder.

Back on topic, I had high hopes for Haye, and think he should not retire, but learn from this and come back stronger, and possibly a little wiser.

Wlads a true heavweight, big, strong, tall and experienced, Haye is not a natural heavweight, however with all of Wlads physical attributes, i.e reach and powerful jab, he failed to land any clean shots,Haye did make him look limited and beatable, as Haye with his hands down, slipped and ducked virtualy every punch ! He was like a mongoose, Haye looks the better boxer and more talented, shame he was not a true heavyweight! Unfortunaley plodding forward like Wlad did, piles up points and favours with the judges, ( Good Luck Haye next time!! )

He should retire from boxing. He will have received a fat paycheck for that. There are plenty of opportunities for him outside boxing. You can tell he is shrewd promoter/businessman/marketer. He will be back in one shape or form. Maybe he'll join Gavin Henson for a reality TV show double act.

Strictly Come Dancing is an option,Question of Sport,boxing pundit,boxing coach etc. He still has his own boxing promoting business too I believe. Plenty of options out there. He is only 30 as well.

Haye should walk away now.

He was a great cruiserweight, united the division and will always have that as his peak achievement. He then showed he had the balls by moving up to face the heavies despite not being a natural and to be honest he gave as good (or better) an account of himself against Klitschko as any of the of the heavyweights would have done.

He will not fight either of them now without going away and impressing against a few other HWs but by then even a rematch win would have the asterisk of (but he's 37/finished).

This was his shot and it didn't work out, there's no shame in that. Haye looks like a guy who could move on and do other things so I would hope he does that.

I think even for all Hayes unsavoury antics, heavyweight boxing needs David Haye, its clear that either Klitschko will most certainly have his number, BUT they won’t be around forever, I expect one of the governing body’s will not sanction WK’s next fight so it becomes available. I hope the competitor in Haye will want to come again and try to become a 2 time HW world champ, because at nearly 30 and 20 something fights he is a HW baby.

I can’t see it happening but if we could have some sort of super six style tournament at Heavyweight, but much shorter and less convoluted format. Involving the top contenders e.g. Haye, Adamek, Arreola, Solis, Perez… hopefully delivering competitive fights and building the profiles of the boxers involved, I won’t hold my breath though.

Having wasted my time watching the rubbish, in answer to the question 'which one of them should he fight next?', I would suggest he check if they have a sister and offer to fight her

@4 "Contrast Haye with Nadal. Its now emerged that Nadal sustained a hairline fracture of his foot in the 4th round last week, but he never even mentioned it yesterday after losing."

Then how do you know about it?...

Both Klitschkos are rich enough, I think they'll happily freeze Haye out and who can blame them? They make huge gates and purses in Germany almost regardless of opponent anyway. Also, as said, the money generated in a rematch would take a big hit given the one-sided nature of the first one.

May as well just call it a day. Whoever picks up the scraps when the brothers eventually retire is going to look bad anyway, why suffer that extra black mark? And if it's to work back to another Klitschko title fight, well, see above.

Ok, 24 hours has elasped after the fight, Haye has a good sleep, and has now ackowledged that WK was by far the better fighter. He is forgiven by me, but i hope that whenever (if he decides) he gets back, he should consider what it takes to hype a fight without being insulting. Insulting is where it all went wrong, and that i believe is what has led to the 'broken toe' Hayegate.
He has got his big paycheck, he should decide whether he continues his career at either heavy weight or back to cruiser weight or retire. He has a long ladder now to climb before he gets any fight against the Klitchkos (if they dont retire themselves), and he has lost most of (if any) slf respect he had in the industry. His only way back in this industry is to do all talking in the ring as know one would believe in him outside the ring.

This is a typical over-hyped British sports star. Anybody who knows anything about boxing knows DH was and is a blown up Crusierweight. Coming up against a lets face it talented heavyweight puts this really in perspective. OK he might have broken his toe fair enough it might have restricted his movement but
1. Without that on this evidence he would never have won the fight.
2. In context Joe Calzaghe beat Evans Ashira with a broken hand (over 12 rounds).

None of this is helped by his tub-thumping confidence and arrogance sure but some of his stunts ands comments have come back to haunt him.

Time for a rethink.

@number 5

Vitali and wlad are the best ever heavyweights, only lennox imo would comperte with them, and vitali effectively retired him.

Ali???Lost to norton nummurous time, floored by a midgets such as henry cooper...who wouldnt make it as a light heavtyweight in todays scheme of things...

TAYSON, WHO did tyson beat???burbick, the k bros would destroy him, spinks???probably are purer cruiser than Haye, then his career went downhere from there.


Vitali was schooling lennox even with one eye, he was up on puncxh stats, and score cards, but hey, lucky punch anbd lennox deserved the win.

Lennox said if the moneys right he would rematch vitali, just like rahman and oliver mccall(both fighters would/have been destroyed by the k bros) gave lennox that opportunity, 40 million offered later and he wisely reties...

These brothers are awesome, this current wlad is literally unstoppable.

Best ever heavys are lennox, wlad and vitali....vitali being literally impossible to beat unless a freak injury...

At 12:27 4th Jul 2011, froch carl wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
Klitschko brothers best ever heavyweights? Jog on.

@15, are you seriously suggesting that WK & VK would be beat….

Liston, Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield, Dempsey, Frazier, Holmes, Marciano.

Do me a favour! I do actually highly rate the Klitschkos BUT as there dominance has coincided with a spectacularly poor period in the HW division, I have no idea what you are basing that on.

Also, Lewis did beat VK even with a below par performance.

A peak Tyson, with his fantastic lateral movement and ability to take punches, would have ko'd wladimir Klitschko in one round. As soon as Tyson got inside, and unloaded, the fight would be over.

Lets not get carried away with Wladimir beating the likes of Chambers, Haye and Peter et al. None of them are hall of famers.

To be great, you must do great things.

@4 "Contrast Haye with Nadal. Its now emerged that Nadal sustained a hairline fracture of his foot in the 4th round last week, but he never even mentioned it yesterday after losing."

Then how do you know about it?...
______________________________________________________

its in the media today - my point is and was, he never offered this up as an excuse yesterday after losing and he hasnt offered it up as an excuse since. Nadal never referred to his foot in the post match interview. contrast that to the less classier david haye who jumped up on the desk and made a fool of himself to all and sundry.

Mr Dirs was quick to point out in his last blog, that the sensible way to go about this, if it were true, is to let the dust settle and let the story emerge at a later date. Haye's problem is now that he has come across as a very very sore loser. he's since come out and said other things, but the damage is done and in years to come, he'll be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not a haye hater, i wanted him to win but the way he conducted himself before and after the fight was questionable. he could learn a lot from nadal

Froch Carl you had some strong opinions on 606 as well and at least your consistent but can you really believe those two could beat a prime Ali, Foreman, Tyson (actually Vitali possibly with his chin and size), Lewis etc

Wlad is in a perfect era for him as there are no fast and technically gifted boxers who size wise are close to him and as such he dominates from range. I dont think eitehr of them matches up well to a fully fit and hungry Lewis (bear in mind for all the talkj of the Vitali fight Lewis did enough to cause 60+ stitches of damage with the replays showing it was punches that caused them as well not clashes of heads) let alone some of the others mentioned.

That said I do feel that both are a little underrated as boxers by many and Saturday did prove a point in that the jab Wlad has is brilliant really and whilst I dont think he'd beat many of those named above he wouldnt be shown up badly by too many either.

i think people are being too harsh on haye. You can say he is just making excuses but he couldn't launch off because of his foot injury.

yes the fight was a dissapointment, but i'd love to see a rematch.

klit fought a great fight but he didnt really hurt david. rematch, lets get it on!!!!!!

On Haye mind its worth adding he showed more in that fight than pretty much anyone else has against Wlad for a long long time and he probably is the best heavyeight not named Klitschko.

He was never going to be a hall of fame heavy anyway but I thought he showed enough to be proud of his effort a undisputed cruiserweight fighting the top heavy really should only end one way when you reflect on it. He has had decent enough career and I'd rather watch a return of that fight last weekend than Wlad taking on other options avaialable to him so wont be too suprised if it happens and it has a very similar result

He's had 2 losses, Vladmir couldnt even knock him out and was hurt twice or more.

All he does is jab, jab, then hug.. Hes good, but thats the limit of his ability. Esp in this stage of his career. He did well and used his strenghs to his advantage, but its more of a case of Haye didnt use his to counter them.

Haye's British and i'll support any British boxer to win, Some of his pre-fight comments were out of order, but most were blown way out of context.

Vlad did what he had to do, but nothing more, nothing great, just a plain average jab. Not signs of a true great boxer, just someone who uses his average ability.

Haye should invest his money wisely and retire.
Klitschko is simply too big and too strong, with too great a reach advantage for him to contend with.
If he stays outside he'll suffer the jab, without being able to respond and lose on points. If he slips the jab and gets inside, Klitschko will clinch and lean on him, sapping his leg strength, till the ref separates them, putting him "outside" for the process to start all over again.
It's horrible to watch, but it's very very effective when used by a man of Klitschko's strength and ability.
As for heavyweight boxing, the decline continues.

Haye should do what he said he would and retire. He doesn't need to box anymore. And I doubt many would want to watch now anyway.

But it makes me laugh when people have a go at him for the trash talk - it's what made a lot of people watch the fight. Even if it was just to see him get beaten up. He probably didn't even believe it himself most of the time. This is a sport where people hit each other and there's complaints that he said nasty things!

Oh and Klitschko's aren't that good. The era is rubbish which is why 'a rematch with Haye would still be a bigger draw than most'.

So.... What have we learned from this?

If nothing more we now know that whilst Haye was selling iphone apps and sparring with Justin Beiber Wladimir was focused on boxing.

David is a cracking fighter and I would love to see him take this loss on the chin... go away and train like a challenger, without the hype or celebrity lifestyle. A hungry fit and focused David Haye still has a chance against a Klitschko in my eyes.
..but he has to devote himself to the boxing. Its obvious how all this hoopla has distracted him.

He has the power to take out Wladimir but his game plan fell terribly short against a more technical operator. He needs some tactical advice from an elite level trainer.
If he'd pressured Wlad more the upper cut would have been a perfect weapon in close where Wlad panics...I dont recall him throwing one.

If Haye has the heart and the spirit he is well capable of blowing away all challengers on the road back to a fight with one of the KBros. .. By then Haye will be a more experienced, hardened heavyweight and growing into his prime at the weight.

Retirement can wait until the job is done.

Heavyweight Boxing is finished. For a few years at least.

Interest zapped in what is supposed to be the most high-profile and best division.

No one seems to be mentioning a potential fight with Bernard Hopkins which fast track him back into the limelight quicker than any other opponent.

Great cruiserweight but but like so many from this division they are simply not quite big enough to tale on the big boys.
I think historically the Klitsckos are very dull and ordinary fighters in the heavyweight pantheon so if he can`t even beat one of them then I would call it a day.

Haye wanting a rematch just show how little respect he has for his fans...he wants to rip us all off again by paying to watch him run away all night so that he only loses on points and make himself another 10 million at our expense.

He says he did his best and lost on points to Klit. He makes it sound as if it was a good effort...he lost 10/12 rounds...thats an annihilation!

Fool me once Mr Haye shame on....shame on you....fool me....fool me twice...fools get... ya cant get fooled again is what im saying. There will be no more fooling of this fool you fooler!

He could fight Povetkin and a few others. See how he does there. If he retires after this he really will go down as a nobody.

@ 30 james mathew

What the hell are you on about?? Vladimir didnt exactly go for the knockout either, jab jab, back off, jab jab back off, When Vlad did get hit, he got rilled and just hugged.. So much for a "Great" Heavyweight, lmao.. you seriously have got something against Haye.

Is it cause he's black?? (the Ali G Reference)

Tard..

#32 Becky

Haye was the one who called out Klit...he was the one who said he would unify the whole heavy weight division...he said he would take both the brothers heads off...the press were comparing him to Mohammad Ali....and at best he looked like a bad heavy weight that ran all night cos he was afraid to get hit.

Klit didnt look for this fight...he was a gentleman the whole way along...and he came and took care of business.

I dont like haye cos he's a fraud who is in it for himself and the money he can make by fooling people into believing he is something he is not...plus he's a toolbag.

and ofc he confirmed all that when he lost 10/12 rounds and then blamed it on his pinky ring! pleaseeee!

Solis, [...] was last seen crumpling to a humiliating defeat against Vitali Klitschko, when the much-hyped Cuban came in in bad shape and retired in the first round with a knee injury.

Did you watch that fight? For me, he was clearly winning the 1st round and causing Vitali problems with his speed and illusiveness. He may have looked in bad shape, but then he always does, it just seems to be his build. The reaction from Vitali and his management was absolutely disgraceful, suggesting he'd faked the injury, when not only had he snapped a knee ligament, but then still try to stand on it, but collapsed.

@33 Tard

Your praising Vladimir a bit much, so what if Haye called out both brothers, doesnt that show he actually wants to fight the best in the division? Thing is he went to Germany tried to do the nearly impossible and as you so put it, "fooled" people. He looked in shape, he looked dangerous, he rocked Vladimir a couple of times, and all Vlad did was hug and stand away using his jab.. WOW!! Praise that! The best of all time on the back foot jabbing away, proceeds to get hit, hard and then hugs.. Doesnt go for anything apart from a jab here and there..

Vlad is a "good" fighter, but nothing more.. Like i said previously, Vlad didnt do anything abnormal, just an average fight, its just Haye didnt implament his A Game.

Broken Toe? Not 100%? No one will know apart from him. Not gonna label him a freud or a wuss or anything cause ive never fought in a boxing ring, with or without a broken toe.. Suggest you do the same before running you mouth off at nothing..

He doesn't deserve a rematch. Some people are saying Wlad couldn't hurt him and he dodged most of the punches...well, of course he did because he stayed out of range the whole fight and never engaged Wlad. Hard to hurt someone who backs away the whole time. Haye had his chance and he blew it...he conned everyone into believing he would go for it but he never even tried.

If he beats another of the top contenders like Adamek or Arreola then sure he may get another chance but until he proves himself worthy he absolutely doesn't deserve another huge payday.

What did he say days before the fight? "No excuses if I lose" Really? I've heard about 15 so far...

How did he break his toe?

#33 Becky

Becky what fight were u watching? "he looked dangerous, he rocked Vladimir a couple of times"

After round 3 he was out of the fight...how is that looking dangerous? and I didnt see Klits legs go at any stage so I think your watching your TV with rose tinted glasses there young lady.

Im not a Klit fan at all, I will probably never watch a fight of his again as he is boring. I loved Haye in cruiser weight cos he was a nicer guy and less cocky but the main thing was he backed it up.

Here he knew he would lose but just wanted to make some money b4 he retires at 26 or whatever young age he is retiring. That tells me he is afraid to fight in the HW division. What had he 5 HW fights? One against a real HW and we all know what happened...POW RIGHT IN THE KISSER!

He is such a fraud that he even managed to take some peoples money by fighting Fraudly Harrison! Need I say more!

POW RIGHT IN THE KISSER!

Unfortunately, although some of Haye's "banter" was out of order, you can't deny that he maximised his ability to generate the biggest possible pay-day for himself and did raise interest in the ever-declining heavyweight division. So let's not get too concerned about what Haye's next move will be. As previously stated, as long as the Klitschko bros remain as champions, he will never get a look in. Perhaps with the demise of David Haye, everyone involved with the sport of boxing in this country should turn their attention to the one true warrior still fighting, Carl Froch. Taking on the best rated fighters in your division and in the majority of them fighting them in their backyard surely deserves more recognition than he has had up to now.

@38 Child

He looked dangerous before the fight? Beeming full of confidence, and alot of people believed he could do it, me included. Nobody knows what happens untill fight night, and he did look out of his depth. He rocked Vlad in the 3rd and 12th.. Vlad hugged for dear life in the 12th when Haye slamed a righter in his face. ;)

Now get back to school young man, dont want your step daddy hitting you again do we :-)

What I found so annoying was that in every round Haye was marginally worse than Klitchko. Anybody that says this was a mauling should look at their faces after the fight, both the same, also look at the power punches that landed, again about 50/50. One punch won this fight and that was the jab, that’s why I think Haye can beat him, just work on counteracting the jab. As for the broken toe, whether or not it made much difference to the actual fight I am not sure, but one thing is for certain it would have made a massive difference to Hayes preparation which would have affected the fight.

#40 Rebecca

No one outside of Britain thought Haye would win because the rest of the world weren't sucked in by all the Hape and lies. So for the rest of us it was no supprise.
The only thing that supprised me is how he ran all night and didnt even try to win incase he would get caught and knocked out.

Anyways we will have this same conversation with King Kahn is build up to fight one of the worlds best and a similar result occurs.

David Haye Quote:
"My baby toe hurts, look at it its blue....I could barely walk out there, could you imagine what I would do to him if my baby toe wasn't blue? ya...thats a scary thought"

I broke two toes, one badly, a few years back. After three weeks they were okay, and I was fully mobile. Fishy.

Haye should shut up, retire and count his money ...

I cant believe there are people on here who think that Haye somehow deserves a rematch or that he sufficiently hurt Klitch or that Klitschko someone does not deserve praise because he's boring, even though he won at least 10 of the 12 rounds. Reccy, please take note! his tactics were of no surprise = jab jab jab. he not only fought to his strengths, he fought the same way that he always does and david haye had NO way of dealing with that.

klitschko was never going to throw caution to the wind just to please some fairweather fans. as i said in last weeks blog, he's like the england 2003 rugby world cup team - stick to a gameplan and win by whatever means. Sugar Ray Leonard wasnt daft enough to go toe to toe with duran a second time - he'd figured out how to win and walked the rematch. klitchko figured out Haye and unfortunately haye looked out of his depth on the night. i saw nothing that warrants a rematch and I would imagine the brothers will freeze him out now should he decide to fight on

why doesn't he drop back down a weight.

He won't beat the Klitschko's so there's no real reason to stay at Heavyweight.

A victory for boxing and sports as a whole - Haye bottled the last fight arranged v klitchko and never proved or properly explained the "injury".
Then after a serious whupping he blames his toe - best for him to leave it to the proper boxers and run off to Hollywood or even better the WWE where his mouthing off will be better received and he doesn't have to worry about getting hurt.

Why are people talkin about Haye retiering where will he go. His stock could not be any lower now for any other type of work. He must look for more big fights eg Hopkins or Vitali to rebuild his reputation.

I wouldn’t rule out a rematch because… who else, are the brothers going to fight??

And although Haye had no plan B, was leaping in amateurishly and was physically no match for WK, it was probably the most WK has been pushed in recent years, would anyone disagree…

Having said that im not in hurry to see the rematch as I think the result would be the same, one easy win for Haye, Sky start the hype machine again, more then enough people would buy it, in a similar way to enough people picking Hatton to beat Pacman even after the PBF fight.

@46 joe,

I don’t think there is really any glory (or money) to be made from dropping back down. Also, although he isn’t that far of 14 stone 4 lbs now, I cant see him wanting to drop the weight again.

David Haye is good for boxing.

I've never been a HUGE boxing fan but ever since David came along with his banter & wit i've been hooked.

David knows he didn't perform how he wanted too,it was just a bad day at the office.

A rematch would be great to see, David is capable of beating wlad i have no doubt about it.

Woo woo woo! You know it!

Haye is the world number 1 Cruiserweight without question, but wouldn't have entertained a scrap against class Heavyweight opponents like Tyson or Lennox Lewis.
That he felt he had a good chance against Klitchko shows where Heavyweight boxing is at the moment.......

Just coming back to the Klit 'greatest HW' dicussion:

I'm old enough to have seen Ali fight (on the TV), as well as Tyson clearly.

Those two would had more than enough to have stopped both K's.

Both fighters had too much speed and lateral movement, combined with punching power, and would have made them look like the statues they are.

There was a comment about Tyson v VK, and the advantage VK had with his size and chin, but MT is 5'10", and fought from a crouch. All VK would have seen is his jab glancing off the top of MT's head as MT did that walk forward and dodge the incoming blows (or just walk through them) thing he did at the top of his game. Once he was inside the jab, game over. MT would have destroyed him with body work.

Ali showed he had the tools to deal with any size of opponent, and he'd have put 3 punches on the chin of either K as soon as he was past their jab.

As for the 'who did they beat?' nonsense. They beat all of the best fighters out there, during a time when the HW division was strong and there was a lot of competition. That question proves you really know nothing about boxing.

I don't want this to come across as a K bashing session, but I just think they get more praise than they deserve, given they won't fight each other, and there being no real contenders, other than Haye, who needs to learn a lesson from this and come back with a better plan.

George Foreman scored the fight even, on HBO.

George Foreman needs glasses

To HMMurdoch of the rose tinted glasses

I think you are seriously underestimating the Klit brothers (or at least Vitali).
Ali did not have a huge punch and would certainly not have knocked Vitali out as the older brother has an iron chin.
Tyson would also have run into huge problems with Vitali as the height difference would be a huge factor. Tyson never did well against tall fighters and Vitali is taller then anyone Tyson ever fought with the exception of Lennox Lewis.

Also, in my opinion, Lewis is one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time. Vitali gave him all he could handle for 6 rounds before that awful cut ended the fight.
Please don't counter with the old arguments that Lewis was old and hadn't trained. Apart from not carrying much weight such excuses are for losers like Haye.

So in short, I would pick both Tyson and Ali to beat Wlad but I'm not so sure about Vitali going on his sheer toughness and physical attributes.
In fact, it's about time they started a super heavyweight division because the size difference between some fighters at the weight is getting silly.

Career and Legacy-wise there is nowhere else for Haye to go. Fighting anyone other than a Klitschko would not elevate his career and another lost could prove to further lessen his legacy.

Just like Ricky Hatton - he tried to fight the best in the division but came well short of the mark.

No-one would watch a Haye fight now and the way he conducted himself before and after the fight has guaranteed that the casual fans would not be interested aswell.

I say retire and do Strickly or cameos in film...

@ 57,

You have to put Ali’s stature and power into context as heavyweights where a completely different size and shape then.
I agree though any heavyweight in history would have a difficult nights work with WK and especially VK. But my gut feeling is (which is all you can go on in these hypothetical fights) that Tyson, Ali et al would be to quick / skilful / good boxers for the Klitschkos.

But that just may be my snobbery as I find their amateurish style dull and unattractive, whether it would have been affected against the very best, im not sure.

I do agree a super heavyweight limit is probably necessary so there’s a division to bridge the gap between 14 stone 4 lbs and the majority of 17 / 18 stone heavyweight, I would make super heavyweight 15 ½ stone and over.

No. 57 you are almost spot on, IMO. Raise the super-middle limit to 175lb, light heavy to 195lb and cruiser to 215lb. Yes, Roy Jones jr beat John Ruiz, (and was never the same afterwards) but there is no realistic chance of anyone other than a young Ali weighing 210 or less against today's Wlad and beating him. Today's Vitali, that may be another matter, given his age, but not the prime version.

The only fights out there for Haye are fighting British fighters like Fury or Chisora. I suspect that both might beat Haye.

Haye is not a great fighter. Fact! But not only because Saturday's defeat. He wouldn't be a great fighter now even if had beaten Vlad because he was planning to retire right after that. Being a great fighter is not only about winning belts but -- more importantly imho -- successfully defending them against both mandatory and voluntary challengers, basically beating everybody they throw at you and then -- even when you lose someday or better retire undefeated your status is very much assured.

I think Klitschkos have defended their titles scores of time, lost them a couple of times, won them back and again defended them multiple times and keep on doing so. Ali, Lewis, Naseem, Roy Jones, etc. all ruled for a loooong time as champions and weren't particularly picky about whom they had to defend against.

So for Haye to be assured of his "legacy", not only does he need to win back "his" belt at HW and add new ones he has to have many successful defenses to boot. Maybe, in theory, he could do it by the time he turns fifty. In other words, time has been lost. And he didn't have a single fight in America either.

@61, now we are all pee’d of at Haye but he wins those fights for me.

But at least (and you can chuck Price into the mix with Fury and Chisora) domestically HW’s are worth watching.

Fury beats Haye? ha ha ha ha
Fury's going absolutely nowhere, Chisora is domestic or euro level, price is the one worth watching but, and I don't know, can he take a hard shot? We'll find out soon I guess

@62, I actually think at 30 Haye has plenty of time to do what you have said. (I was never convinced his plan to retire was entirely genuine.)

There’s no reason he couldn’t have 10 fights over the next 4 or 5 years and probably win a version of the title and defend it.

But, I doubt with the money he now has that the desire is there.

Does seem like his aim was purely to secure a super fight like this, that sets you up for life financially, anything else was a bonus.

The only fight out there right now for Haye is a rematch with Audley Harrison!

@62, Haye fights 3 and 5 were in the US, both one round kos against Guys Named Joe, the latter, bizarrely, in the Playboy Mansion. BTW he seems to have beaten Tony Blair's father-in-law on his debut.

@66 Not while the Klitchkos are around, it would seem.

However maybe he could arrange for somebody to beat one them and then beat that person himself? This seems what Vlad did to him as regards Valuev, he basically used David Haye to remove Valuev from the scene (whom they were reluctant to fight), get his belt and then hand his belt over to him?

Saturdays fight was a dullfest, Haye only landed 72 punches and Klitschko landed 134, with 110 being jabs. The fight was a disgrace to the history of heavyweight boxing.

Haye should've taken more risks, we all knew Klitschko wouldn't. Haye would have more respect if he risked getting knocked out, even if he got knocked out people would still respect him for having a go, like with Hatton Vs Mayweather. He was just too scared of Klitschkos right hand and therefore took no risks, which is why people feel so let down. Just look at the risks Khan took against Maidana, who was a huge puncher.

Haye seems to be proud that he didnt get knocked out but in a fight that only had 200 punches with the majority being jabs, that is not something to be proud of.

I'd like to know if Haye was so badly handicapped by his "broken toe" why didnt he have the decency to postpone the fight - or failing that, how about refunding all the money the fans / ppv viewers spent on what we now know was a lost cause.. Disgraceful attitude / contempt shown by this "sportsman". No wonder the Klitschko's are laughing at HIM now..

PS Calzaghe threw more punches than that in a single round!

A bit of ott criticism of Haye imo. He lasted the full twelve which is something only 6 of his previous victims managed. Hardly the devastating victory that many on here are proclaiming. I think Haye provoked some necessary excitement for the heavyweight division, albeit briefly.

Fair enough, he was outfought by a substantially bigger man. People forget that 2 stones is four weight divisions separation. Its no insignificant factor. It doesn't make him a poorer fighter, just physically too small for the division he's in and the main opposition. As a light heavy/cruiserweight he was indestructible.

People who compare him to Calzaghe completely miss this point. I have no doubt that a light heavyweight bout between the two would see one winner - Haye.

I think he did go a bit over the top in promoting the bout, but I think the worst excess was exhibited by his fans rather than the man himself.

Where next for Haye? Well he can easily fight himself back into number one contender position and become the de facto opposition and pick up the belt by default. However, I think Vitali will probably see this as an opportunity to double up on him and earn a few bucks in the meantime although Haye will probably need a fight or two to increase his stock.

@72 With respect, Haye would have no chance against Calzaghe at light-heavy. He'd have to cut a leg off to make the weight. The lightest weight he ever posted as a pro was 189lb, 14 over the light-heavy limit, a weight division in which he never fought professionally.

If they ever meet it will be in a movie.

@72, since when did Haye box at Lightheavy AND im not sure if he could he would beat Joe Calzaghe either.

Forget my comments about Calzaghe as Haye was never light heavy - but the limitations of the lower weight as a like for like comparison to the heavyweight division remains. Heavyweight remains a totally separate division with no limits in terms of how much bigger than your opponent you can be and as such it has always remained incomparable to other weight divisions.

Whereas other weight divisions allow you to incorporate weight as a way of measuring boxing skill, heavyweight does not. So just because Haye was beaten doesn't mean he is a poorer boxer it just means he couldn't overcome his weight handicap. And all criticism should be tempered with this in mind imo.

Where I have a problem with the Klitschkos is that they are allowed to make the heavyweight a moribund division by refusing to fight each other. Surely they are the number one contenders in each of the divisions the other holds belts in? Lewis won his belt from Bowe on the basis of Bowe's refusal to fight. Why can't we similarly hammer the Klitschkos? Together they have sewn up and effectively thrown away the heavyweight title as a competitive division.

You're right JimmyFerguson. Forget my comments about Calzaghe as Haye was never light heavy - but the limitations of the lower weights as a like for like comparison to the heavyweight division remains. Heavyweight remains a totally separate division with no limits in terms of how much bigger than your opponent you can be and as such it has always remained incomparable to other weight divisions.

Whereas other weight divisions allow you to incorporate weight as a way of measuring boxing skill, heavyweight does not. So just because Haye was beaten doesn't mean he is a poorer boxer it just means he couldn't overcome his weight handicap. And all criticism should be tempered with this in mind imo.

Where I have a problem with the Klitschkos is that they are allowed to make the heavyweight a moribund division by refusing to fight each other. Surely they are the number one contenders in each of the divisions the other holds belts in? Lewis won his belt from Bowe on the basis of Bowe's refusal to fight. Why can't we similarly hammer the Klitschkos? Together they have sewn up and effectively thrown away the heavyweight title as a competitive division.

Sorry about double posting!

Whether we like it or not, David failed to walk the walk on Saturday night. He hardly took a risk in the whole 12 rounds, for fear of having his face jabbed off. The jab is one of the best tools in heavyweight boxing and Emmanuel Steward uses it to tactical perfection with his fighters.

I was watching the fight and found myself thinking 'Lennox would obliterate both of these fighters'- he had a better jab, a better right hand, and a good reach. He was also more agressive.

It is a terrible, terrible heavyweight division. David Haye isn't good enough to bring it back to life. Of all people, Mike Tyson hit the nail on the head on Saturday morning- he said he didn't think Haye had the power to do enough damage, and so it proved. His punches are more stun punches than anything (hence Barrett and Ruiz getting back up multiple times)

Haye's only route (if he is still looking at retiring in the short-term) is a fight with Vitali Klitschko. Vitali hates him and thoroughly believes he can knock Haye out. Especially now they have seen one g brother beat him- it would be a big money fight for Vitali to retire with (more millions for the bank!) and the opportunity to finish Haye's career for good and make him look stupid.

Vitali would be very hard to beat. Would have to do it on points if anything.

After that performance on Saturday I am stunned some people are still trying to talk Haye up. Klitschko dominated every round, Haye never troubled him. There are heavys knocking around that Haye would beat but after his last two risible engagements surely no one will be mug enough to fork out again unless a fight can be made with one of the Klitschko's and with no belt and no prestige Haye would have to take the very short end of the money. By imposing this arbitrary retirement date and only fighting twice a year Haye really painted himself into a corner, he had to take on Wlad or Vitali rather than being able to add a couple more no hopers to his record. I'd like to see Haye go back to cruiser, potentially some interesting match ups for him there but unfortunately cruiserweights only get a fraction of the attention and dough that heavys attract and I get the feeling Mr Haye rather likes both.

Good point, UD, @75 -- 77. If all of Wlad's sanctioning bodies make Vitali mandatory, and vice versa . . .

Only they won't, for the Klitschkos are too important to them . . . as was Haye to the WBA.

@78 Vitali will turn 40 in two weeks, and he hasn't fought anyone worth a monkey's for seven years. If Haye's still interested, he'll be keeping his fingers crossed that he beats Adamek ... as he should just by leaning on him, given that the guy's smaller than Haye. After that, who else? Haye will still = money.

Haye deserves some respect for making this fight happen. He is unproven in the HW division and basically blagged and shouted his way into this fight.

Maybe some of his comments was below the belt, but from his point of view it was his only way to raise his profile and get this fight and make a hell of alot of money.

Haye is been boxing all his life, i think he has had enough, instead of going through the division making his name by beating poor opponents and risking his long term health he shouted his way into this fight, got media attention and as Haye said captured the imagination of the public and made people watch a boxing match when usually they have no interest in boxing.

So credit goes to Haye for his plan A. And he never really had a plan B and now is just as much stunned by the loss as he was in the fight by WK's Jab.

Plan A

1. Con his way into the fight.

2. Beat WK

3. Beat VK.

4. Retire as the one holding all the belts.

5. Come back into the ring with a massive lure of money to make him fight, because by this time the public wouold want him to and America loves heavy weights.

So basically Haye was in this for the money and he marketed it perfectly.

But plan A was all he had and there was never a plan B and Haye didnt make any plans to lose.

Broken Toe Excuse. Not just an excuse but somesort of reason why he didnt perform, thats ok and understandable, but firstly he needs to make the headliner about his loss that WK totally outboxed, out strengthed, and out thought him.

Haye should have emphasized more that WK was in fact the much better fighter and boxer on the night and then in a smaller sense through a different source let us know about his toe. He would get more respect and sympathy if it was done that way. But again that's the problem with interviews right after the fight. Haye must be devastated and hurting much more than we can ever imagine.

Haye is now a very very rich man, is his pride worth more than money. He has had enough of boxing and at his natural weight there is nobody out there to beat him. Vitali summed up Haye very nicely, that Haye is not big enough not a natural heavy weight.

Can you see Haye fighting a few bums to get another shot, i can't. They way he trashed talk to much will come back to haunt him, he has totally embarrassed himself.

At this point his options are not that good.

At this point the only option is that Vitali had said he would like to fight him just t knock him out. Haye should cash in on that statement and bring in a new way to market himself and lure Vitali into the ring to back up his words. This is the only way he can get back in the big time.

He needs to rest, get back on his feet and then come out again with a new angle about how exactly is Vitali gonna knock him out, he has to get back under their skins so that Vitali will want nothing more than to knock him out.

And in that time Haye needs to try add more weight and be better prepared, he can learn and he can grow from this defeat and he needs to show his true character as a warrior and get up and fight, he is only 30 and should be hitting his prime now.

The thing that frustrated me about on the night was that Haye was always talking about WK as he was some sort of Robot and predictable. But Haye tried to WK in the same way as he fought against the circus freak who is undoubtedly the worst heavy weight champion ever bar none.

Haye needed to work more on body shots, and if his toe was preventing him from landing his hayemaker then he needed to find another solution and that solution showed itself up many times in the fight. Haye was to much concentrating on head shots, and surely his corner must have told him that WK leaves himself open when he throws the Jab.

BUt easy for us to say here that he should have done this and that and Carl Froch admitted to be bored by WK style but when he was up close watching WK fight he said just how good his was at what he does.

So if anyone was predictable that night it was Haye, its all well and good saying that Lionel Messi just dribbles his way through defences, and we all know what he does, but he is so good at it that still nobody can stop him. Same with WK we know his style but nobody can get past it and to be honest WK never really needed to hit his higher gears, DH just didnt have any answers on the night.

@76, sorry I didn’t realise someone had already corrected the light heavy thing above me, didn’t need pointing out again.

Because of the nature of boxing, I can let the Klitschkos of not fighting each other, ok in tennis the Williams sisters face each other, but when one of the aims of the sport is to cause damage to your opponent, I think its fair that two brothers don’t want to face each other, their poor old mum would lose it.
Also, if they did fight I don’t really see how that would help the division, a lack of credible contenders is the problem.

@80, I agree VK beats Adamek by a similar fashion to what VK did to Haye, then unless a heavy weight contender comes from no where, Haye v VK will be the best fight for all concerned in terms of euros.

I like one of the comments down below about comparing Haye to Nadal. How Nadal never mentioned the hairline fracture of his foot at all, even after losing the Wimbledon title. It was embarrassing to watch David whining to the cameras after the fight about his toe. At the same time though, it would have affected his performance and had he been 100% who knows it might have made a difference, it might not have. The point is he should have been gracious in defeat.

I really do hope, however, that he doesn't retire. Like him or not, David Haye has brought heavyweight boxing back into focus. He should go away, rattle through a couple of top 10 ranked heavyweights, which I am fully confident he can do. Then in a couple of years come back as a No.1 contender with more experience and hopefully wrestle the belts away from Wlad. He can't fight Vitali, by the time he'd be ready for it, I'm fairly certain Vitali will have retired.

All the best heavyweights have had to recover from humiliating defeats and David will be no different. I'm certain that given a bit of time and humility David Haye really can become one our best heavyweights ever.

@80 Cheers mightyquinn - got carried away lol. I asked myself the same question regarding the Klitschkos and I found myself asking exactly what do the promoters get from it? One of the reasons that everyone pounced on Haye as a reasonable challenger was because people wanted to believe the hype. And I believe this was precisely because they had essentially killed the division stone dead. But maybe it would be a little too controversial if one or the other was pressured out the game in this way.

Having said all this, if memory serves me correct, Larry Holmes had the same stifling impact on the heavyweight division and was never given credit for his record because of his sheer domination and supposed lack of serious challengers. I suspect the Klitschko's will be viewed on in the same light as a result. They will also be looked back on as one person because they never fought each other;)

"The point is he should have been gracious in defeat."

I think his hype before the match prevented this course to be honest. Indeed he might even be starting up his next hype trail by refusing to admit total defeat!

It all depends on how much front he has if he is to continue. He will need a huge amount of self belief though. One thing you can't do in the heavyweight division is overcome the weight advantage in a meaningful way (i.e., not like Danny Williams michelin man version of himself!). He would need a huge change in approach - maybe even a change in coach. Not sure if anything will really make the difference though as the difference was marked. I'm not even sure if he has the stomach to.

But I wish someone would take the Klitschos out though. As boring and predictable as they are in the ring, they are twice as boring out it!

I am amazed at some comments about Wlad being a classic fighter. The heavyweight division is stale right now and these guys are the best of a bad lot.

Haye could hang around and return as a contender, he was obviously outclassed on the night but lets not get carried away saying Wlad's performance was any better than average.

Haye was poor on the night but can fight better, he would do well to have Wlad's trainer in his corner because he was sadly lacking in ideas/execution.

Where are the Americans? Whats happening over there?

For Decades They dominated the Heavyweight division giving us some of the greatest fighters of all time Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, Holyfield, Tyson. And Countless other top Heavyweights. During the 90s every year there was a new kid on the block sniffing around the Titles The Next Big thing who was challenging.
In the last 10 years there havent been any. All I can think of are Monte Barrett and John Ruiz as the biggest names not exactly Great Names and the odd one or two other challengers. Even Roy Jones Jr stepped up and became Heavyweight Champion and Holyfield comes out of retirement every year.

Whats changed why arent there any American Heavyweights anymore at the world level, look at the top heavyweight rankings which used to be dominated by americans and you will find about 3 names.

Its baffled me for a while now I was always under the impression America won the Cold war but if you look at Heavyweight Boxing its the Former Soviet Block that won that war.

Haye gave us all some hope and entertainment. Yes he made a bit of a fool of himself and WK outclassed him in every way. But lets not forget what he has bought to us the past couple of years, most didnt even know him to well until the fight with EM. Since then Haye took the world by storm with his energy and personality. Some hated him, but what else do we have Tyson Fury Chisora, get my point.

Lets get back behind him, i still think he can do the job, but need to learn more about the HW division.

...lol...david has shown his best....as some people suggest he should wait for some time, actually until Klitschkos retired....timing issue...and haye is a world champ!...
....what then heavy weight division is going to look like - better than now????!!!!...an elderly haye...."improved version"(should read deteriorated skills) of haye is a champ!!..
..people, do you really care about boxing?...or just haye to become a champ?....
.... PS...Lewis had to fight Vitaly...then now there was left no questions...because Vitaly wanted to continue in that fight...ref stopped...

@ HMMurdoch [5]:

"VK was beaten by Lennox Lewis at the end of his career.

Imagine how either of them would have faired against the likes of a prime Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman."

-------------------------

VK was indeed beaten by Lennox, but only due to a cut, and he was clearly ahead on all three judges' scorecards when the fight was stopped.

Against Ali, Frazier and Foreman, I agree, he may have fared less well: but be fair, all three were legendary figures in the annals.

Against "Prime" Tyson (or "Sirloin" Tyson, "Fillet" Tyson, or whatever bovine-related Tyson we go for ; ) ) there's no more than 20% doubt in my mind that Vitali would have won. Tyson would have crumbled against him, as he did against any fighter who had the courage to really take him on, and the chin to survive his initial onslaught. And quite apart from the essential falseness of the Prime Tyson mythos (an "unbeatable" fighter who magically winked out of existence after his first defeat, at age 23) it's a case of "wrong style, wrong style". For the same reason that Cus d'Amato forbade Tyson to take on an ageing George Foreman, he would have forbidden him to take on Vitali. Wrong style - VK beats him 8 times out of 10.

Wlad, fair enough - different matter... his chin would not be likely to weather the opening three rounds against Irony Mike. But props where they are due. I am far from a Klitschko fanboy, but I honestly do not think the bros get the admiration they deserve - simply because people are bored by their utter dominance. These big guys would be formidable fighters in any era, and the fact they currently have no real competition is at least partly due to their own excellence.

I do not think that David Haye will retire just yet, in my opinion for what it counts his pride has been dented more than any bruises or his lil toe. It was the most humiliating defeat of his career as a pro, much more humiliating than the one he inflicted on Audley Harrison a complete has been. I think if Haye continues his career as a pro he has a pretty good chance as a light heavy weight. In the next year or two there will always be some hungry fighter who springs up from somewhere in the world, mainly in th U.S. I actually believe that Joe Calzaghi despite the weight difference had the kind of style to beat Haye. That would have been a great match had Calzaghi moved up to lignt heavy. Am sure Haye must be mulling over his future. He should think of all the stupid hype he created. Klitschko was a modest and humble person and so dignified. Well, good luck to Haye to whatever he decides. Once I heard a saying a modest winner always always states 'guess I was lucky mates' but woe betide your life and limb if you agree with him. That my friends is a humble sportsman.

...'if I had a gun machine' and 'time machine'...I go to 2000 BC...and , definitely, I am a heavy world champion!!!!! ...if this, if that...
...chaps, life only exist right now!!....and then even for a small fraction of the second...
....past - only our memories....
....future - simply our thoughts about possible outcome some possible events...
....don't compare people on basis of their probability to be somebody or do something...that's nonsense!...delusional... ....because you cant put two people, separated in time, into the ring...otherwise don't compare them...it is very subjective....only when Lewis fights Ali, you can say objectively who is a better man among them at that same moment...in other cases - just talking...like many do...like Haye did...
...when you are 'on the top' of a mountain - that's temporary, you cannot live there all you life...now Klits are on the top...that's their moment...pay tribute...or just get into to the ring to prove they are wrong...

....as for haye - time to go to bed....
...lol!...for me - as-well!...

:)

On the subject of the blog - Haye's next move.

This guff about retiring in October always seemed annoyingly ludicrous to me - even by the standards of boxing retirement guff. I mean really. Who is honestly going to come in, fight a few nondescript opponents, become the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, and then quit immediately, without even defending it? Load of cobblers. Quite apart from the money and fame on offer, if there was one thing guaranteed to cement your legacy as pumped-up-cruiserweight-who-got-lucky, that would be it.

A showdown with Vitali, who was always going to be the tougher option for Haye, seems even less likely. There's not even much of a puncher's chance against a chin like that - it would have to be dance-rings-round-him & nick it on points - which on Saturday's evidence is a non-starter. And the contract on offer from KlitLaw would be more like a slap in the face than a gents' agreement.

Which leaves the normal, standard boxing thang - fight some good opponents.

The fight fan's choice seems like Adamek - but he is tied up against Vitali, and it would be to Haye's advantage to make a reasonably quick & explosive return, to restore some of the Exciting-Fighter cachet which was blown bigtime at the weekend. The U.S. market is currently having a bit of a guffaw at the loudmouth Brit - but they will soon remember how little they have to chuckle over, given that their own Great Chicano Hope is currently looking like one of the quickest busted flushes since "Prime Tyson".

Well, what about him? Haye could certainly beat Arreola. But would Arreola even want the fight? Since his punishing destruction at the hands of VK, & his outmanoeuvering at the hands-&-feet of Adamek, the guy has been in suspended animation. Only one of his last four fights has been against a top 100 opponent, never mind a top 50. He should be fighting someone good, certainly - but someone who will Stay Still long enough to let him get a punch in. Another humiliating runaround - this time from the even-nippier Haye - might put his career in terminal decline.

So Solis? Hmm. Problem is, just like DH, he's coming off a defeat to a Klitschko. Might be wiser for him to chill back and take a couple of confidence-building fights, cos a dust-up with a David Haye with plenty to prove would be a high-risk strategy for sure.

I think Haye will continue, cos it would be such a comedown not to.
Likely opponents?
Eddie Chambers - to refire U.S. interest
Povetkin - to get himself taken seriously again
Boytsov - for a respectable fight which DH would probably win

I would say Chambers, in the States. Hayemaker could sell that over here:
"Going across the pond to take on the American No 1 in his own back yard."
Yeah, that would work.
Best you've got Dave, for now...

I think Haye if he wants to fight again should start calling for VT, who has said he wants to knock out Haye. Haye needs to get under his skin and ask him to prove it, if he is smart he can spin this around, but does he want to fight, does he have the self belief to go again. I very much doubt he will take the slow road and start to prove himself, he needs to go all out and generate another big fight, Haye needs to start shouting to VT to knock him out because WD certainly couldnt.

And i wanna copyright that master marketing plan and make a few bob from it, cause lets face it, if not nothing else Haye and Booth certainly know how to make a few quid.

The whole problem for Haye was that he seemed to get nervous and bottle it. From the opening bell Klitschko looked really psyched up and commanded the centre of the ring. Haye seemed to bottle it and just started running.I expected him to run in there and start throwing. I think all of us, including Klitschko, ESPN and Boxing fans around the world, were shocked at Hayes "tactics".

Pure and simple, history will judge him as getting nervous and not bringing his A game.

In ur biggest fight, u have got to perform ur best, after watching every Haye fight since his career began, I would have to say that was his worst performance by far, even more than the Thompson loss. He just chickened out of the fight on Saturday, pure and simples.

@HMMurdoch you said "I disagree about WK or VK being on a 'greatest' list. They are the best of a bad bunch. VK was beaten by Lennox Lewis at the end of his career."

Technically you are right that lewis was adjudged winner (hint: note use of the word "adjudged winner") against vitali but you cant be further than the truth (objective truth) if you watched the fight. fight was stopped in the 7th round due t vitali injury. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH6LvUS__M

a. prior to that vitali had worn all the rounds on judges count.
b. the commentator said lewis would have been knocked out if it continued.

I think I would agree about WK or VK being on a 'greatest' list, well VK for one. Look at vitali records.
44 fights 42 Wins -39 KO!!!. ok 2 losses but never been knocked out. read about his 2 defeats here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko.

We cant tell how he would have fared against lewis, Ali, Joe Frazer and co. but you can only beat what is in front of you and sad they have no competition including with Haye unfortunately.

However the tragedy about them is that they would never fight themselves. A Shame (almost a disgrace, not necessarily them but the completion as a whole)