All ends well in East End

As we know vitali and wlad are the best ever heavyweights...

Less we not forget vitali did his shoulder in against chisora...

Also vitali has a far greater punch out put than chisora, chin and techique...haye was breathing heavily after 4 rounds...

No matter what people opinions are towards the ethics and taste of this fight, I have to say that this one one of the very few enjoyable heavyweight fights that I've seen in recent years. There were big shots taken and given by both fighters, the ref was quick to step in to break up clinches but also allowed a degree of fitting on the inside, and it wasn't as ponderous as many heavyweight contents have been in recent years. I would like to see Haye v Vitali, there still really is no other interesting contest in a still weak division, will it happen...who knows.

Nonsense stuff here by a man who doesn't know his boxing. Vitali is 40 now and even if Haye did fight and beat him it would hardly be a great achievement given Vitali's age - the public I expect would recognise that too. Haye and Chisora are respectively the third and forth best heavyweights in the country - while David Price and Tyson Fury occupy first and second place. If Haye wants to fight the best then he'll have to bring it against those guys and ultimately they'll wipe the floor with him...

@ froch carl

Best ever heavyweights? Do me a favour! Good, but by no means the best.

For all of the pre-fight hype and nonsense, last nights event actually brought out the good in boxing. Two fighters full of spite and hate, settling their differences in the ring, exactly how it should be done.

In terms of the event itself, stunning, one of the best atmospheres for a night of boxing in years.

@ Blobplop

Price and Fury above Haye? Maybe when they do prove themselves, that will be the case. Until then, even Chisora is above them due to the calibre of fighter he has fought, and done well against.

It's pretty much the same in the comments section about the fight itself, a lot of Haye hate and name calling, completely disregarding the fact that he has achieved a hell of a lot in his career.

So what's he going to do to his knee and shoulder keeping up and twisting around with the faster and quicker more slippery haye?

Still no easy fight for haye, even if he did wobble vitali would expect him to be grabbed and held most of night. The k's smartly don't engage in trade offs they don't like being hit.

I had a tear from the laughter at post 3. Brilliant stuff

dar par, stas are on my side, highest ko percentages, highest ko's(wlad with 51 over taking oe louis) and most titel defences which will inenevitably be broken by wladimir...

Throw in the fact boxing is far more international than ever and the guys are better conditioned and more athletic compared to the midgets in ali days...you have to say the k bros are the best ever...

chisoras probably worse than price and fury but until price and fury fight klitchkos or haye himself well never know

This was worse than WWE!! The whole thing WAS stage managed to restore some credibility to Haye after his humiliation by Wlad. Chisora was a willing party as he stood to line his pockets. Vitali shouldn't give Haye a fight as he simply doesn't deserve it. He should retire and stay retired. Joker.

All the pre fight nonsense aside it was a good fight, good atmosphere and good sportsmanship at the end...regardless of who the best is now/ever/in the future etc.. I for one just want to see good boxing, heart and desire to win and yes even the nonsense and name calling (although good taste required it at all possible). What could have been a disaster for British boxing and boxing in general, turned out to be a good show

Ben, we all know that the class of opponent has a lot to do with Vitali not being beaten in nearly a decade. Solis, Briggs, Peter, Arreola, Williams, Sanders, these are not great fighters.

However, we also know that you can only fight what is put in front of you, and with the brothers being in an era where the division is poor at best, what else can we expect?

David Haye did to Chisora what neither Tyson Fury or Vitali Klitschko- both vastly bigger men- could. It seems commonplace to mock Haye following his defeat to Klitschko but he's an entertaining, powerful fighter.

It's often forgotten Haye is not naturally a heavyweight, he's a cruiserweight trying to make a career and a bit of wealth for himself and fights against big heavyweights are always going to be difficult, like throwing Froch in against Haye. Froch losing that wouldn't make him a poor fighter, similarly Haye losing to Klitschko is not shameful. However I do hope David gets a crack at Vitali, love Haye or hate him, he livens up the division.

so haye now thinks he deserves a shot at vitali on the back of knocking out a guy beaten by tyson fury not so long ago. lets put things into perspective. Haye has done nothing to warrant a shot (in fact he's further down the pecking order than Fury IMO) - it was much like froch stopping an extremely limited bute and proclaiming himself to be our best ever SM. Please; if there's one thing we do well in Britain, its over hype our sports men - before and after victories.

I stand by my previous posts - this fight should not have happened and I did not weatch it, nor will I. Its also interesting that the BBC paid more attention to this freakshow than they did to khan garcia - a legitimate world title fight

@14

You got a lot of opinions for a man who didn't watch the fight!

How can you be sure Haye doesn't deserve a Klitchko matchup having not seen his latest performance? Odd.

I thought this was a great fight. Exciting, action-packed, clean and the ref. deserves a nod for stopping it at the right time. Haye's tactics (Booth's tactics, probably) were spot-on, and he executed brilliantly.

For a cruiserweight to step up and do this well at heavyweight (pretty much being better than everyone except the K's) says a good deal about his skill and ability. Fair play to him.

Say what you like about Haye, he's interesting and gets a crowd going. The K's are great fighters, but dull as a rainy afternoon. In Hull. On a Tuesday..!

@ paul

Khan v Garcia, a legitimate fight.
Haye v Chisora, also a completely legitimate fight.

It interests me that people think that the likes of Fury or Price warrant a shot more than Haye though, two fighters who as yet, have proved nothing so far to warrant a world title shot. Their time will come of course.

Entertaining fight. Much better than Wladimir's fight last week against Thompson. David Haye is a world class fighter and nobody can disagree with that. He knocked out a guy that Vitali failed to do so, proving he has the power to trouble Vitali. However, I can't see this fight happening, it's pretty obvious that Vitali's next fight against Charr will be his last fight before moving on with his life. He won't risk his boxing legacy by fighting Haye who is ten years younger than him and determined more than ever to prove his critics wrong by showing the world he is up their with the Klitschko's. With the right game plan I do believe Haye can beat Vitali on a points decision, just like he did with Valuev.

Paul why don't you tell us why he doesn't deserve a shot and explain why Fury and Price do.

Firstly, price nor fury despite the latters posturing won't step in ring with either. If Fury was so good why is he fighting fighters worse than chisora after beating him?

Price I rate but he is biding his time until both bros are out the picture. At 28 he should be fighting better men.

Chisora at least has balls to fight whoever and does not mind protecting his loss record.

Vitali will fight Haye as it makes sense. The whole world have seen Haye render a man unconscious that Vitali could only hold off for 12 rounds.

The Germans showed a lot of interest, naturally, in this fight. Will it be enough their adopted sons have beaten Haye between them or will they clamour for the older bro to see if he can go one better and knock haye out after haye went one better on vitali's last opponent?

at no 1, you were boring in the last blog... bit early in the day for trolling isn't it? the brothers are the best HWs around at the moment-- of that there isn't any doubt but the best ever? your having a laugh.

The great thing about modern journalism is it allows you to blog about any subject you please and to stir the cud where necessary. However there past behaviour and the methods by which they have bypassed the regulations mearly goes to prove that boxing is a sport run solely for profit and by people who have no principles whatsoever. The match should not have been allowed to go ahead and the fact that the event took place in London (Where the money is) and not in Luxembourg where the local goatherd only had a venue with fifteen seats at his disposal just goes to prove the whole thing is a joke. Pity but of all the weights in boxing the Heavyweight division is the one populated by the unscrupulous and the worst behaviour. Give us a break. Haye is a world class Light Heavyweight, Chisora an average pugilist. The fact that it lasted to the fifth is of no importance, neither will progress in the Heavyweight division, but with their naieve and petty antics no doubt they will in the end make a few bob. They should be thankful that people like you publicise the event by encouraging garbage and allowing them to profit.

Ben, interested in your thoughts on Khan if you watched it? really enjoyed both fights last night/this morning.

One thing that I find interesting. Vitali can be taken the distance by Chisora and explains away the lack of a better performance on his shoulder, and gets no flack. It's clear then that a toe [in the case of Haye] is a much less respectable part of a body to injure.

Decent article Ben - I thoroughly enjoyed the fight and am glad Haye won. Vitali certainly beckons, but I'm not sure how he can circumvent the size differences - powerful or not.

I disagree with you on one thing though...

"These conspiracists don’t understand boxing: it is possible for two men who hate each other to forge a mutual respect in the furnace of the ring."

Of course it is. But it's also plausible (note, I'm saying plausible, not probable) that the hatred was rigged. You may say we don't understand boxing, I'd say you don't understand human nature - greed is often the biggest motivator. Google 'Libor Barclays'.

That said, I hope it wasn't rigged and ultimately - who cares? It was a very enjoyable fight.

@1 ...same boring comments as last blog and nonesense. The Ks have good stats, I'll grant you but boxing is much more than that. To be considered great you have to have fought and beaten great fighters at their peak like Jack Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Pep, Foreman, Leonard, Duran, Hagler, Hearns all did. So far as I can see, the Ks have fought only either ageing journeymen, people far smaller or fighters on the slide. When they have fought top fighters their own size they both lost by stoppage. Haye did in 5 what Vitali couldnt do in 12. I know styles make fights but Haye did what he had to. Lets see if Vitali and his team want to risk a Haye fight. i doubt it.

@1 Carl Froch. Suggesting the Klits are the best-ever is a muppet-worthy comment (there's a well known spectacle store you should consider visiting).

The current version of Wlad admittedly would be a trickier fight for some of the great heavyweights of the past than some realise, but only with the smaller, less able heavyweights. A 'prime' Lennox Lewis would have toasted both of them, as would Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, George Foreman and others. Their high knockout ratios against far-inferior opponents are meaningless, even if many of those fights have been sanctioned as world title challenges. Their fights have to be World Title challenges by default, and the likes of Chisora would never have got a look in at world level in Lennox Lewis's era, yet both the Klits sought him out for title fights and he gave VK a decent challenge.

Heavyweight boxing needs the US stars to rise again, and for us here in the UK to produce some gems. HW boxing was at it's most exciting when they were on the scene. Say what you like about his antics but Haye has done a lot to bring more attention back the HW scene. How many times have the Klits been in fights as atmospheric and exciting as that which we witnessed yesterday? (hint: it's a rhetorical question)

@28, couldnt agree more. I was reading an interesting article some months ago about the decline interest by big US athletes over the last 20 to 30 years in going into boxing due to the lure of the NBA and to some degree NFL. Less risk physically and better money on average. Incidentally, I am looking forward tonseeing how Anthony Joshua does at the Olympics .... He could be the next Lennox Lewis in a few years....

This writer said back in may "if boxing was a person, it would be taken outside and shot".

That statement was preposterous - last night was brilliant for the sport. End of, simple as.

Shoot football for its sins first, then start on boxing.

good blog ben, i enjoyed the fight was fun to watch. Chisora turning into a bit of a gate keeper in the HW division tough durable and doesn't make it easy for his opponent he was looking to take haye into deep water in the later rounds only thing he was lacking was a bit of pop on his shots. There is no doubt Haye can throw bombs but i just can't see him getting past the iron jab of the 6ft 7 klitschko to land his hayemakers. Would like to say i was impressed with boxnation, warren put on a great gig!

Well done to David Haye, he's proved a lot of doubters wrong. Knocking down Chisora twice is a big achievement, neither Vitali or Fury could manage it. Haye is a great fighter, he went the distance with Wlad, unified cruiserweight and became a heavy world champ. As a Brit I'm proud of him. I see no reason why he doesn't deserve a shot at Vitali and if he beat him then a rematch against Wlad. Let's be honest, we would all watch it!

The fella who suggested Price and Fury are better than Haye has obviously been up all night on the pop. Get to bed sleep it off and have a little think about it later

Haye and both Klitschko's mantra throughout their boxing careers is to leave the sport with their faculties in place....when push comes to shove all three parties have never wanted to embroil in toe to toe contests if they can avoid it.....as a fan of the sport i have no problem with this but i won't be sold on Haye Vitali being a spectacle worth viewing...it will be no different to Haye Vladimir.....a centre of the ring Klitschko who will move forward but will just drop out of range when Haye looks to punch off....its hard to see where Haye can go from here but unless he wanted to take the fight to Vitali its a complete no sell to the boxing public......

okay Haye beat Chisora which is expected given 2 stones lighter advantage and coming from a cruiserweight background.

The way the fight was staged from something out of WWE cheap heat and goading probably wrong..but it did get people's attention.

Having read Carl Froch's interview in the Evening Standard on Thursday , the Cobra is right David Haye is an astute businessman and knows how to sell a fight with his trash talking which people buy into to watch the fight.

The Munich punch up was the catalyst needed to sell the fight and because of its history the fight sold... lets be serious we've seen Mike Tyson do a lot of things outside the ring to sell fights

As for Haye calling Vitali out again. That is the only match seriously people will want to see now in the heavyweight division

Vitali as Ben Dirs pointed out has never been knocked out and lost his two fights due to injury..he was winning on the judges scorecards against Lennox Lewis before being told his eye was too cut up to continue

Tyson fury is suppose to be the coming man for British Boxing but I don't he has credibility at world stage level yet to even think about a title shot.

Haye though will use his mouth to goad Vitali into the fight and the press and fans will obviously want him to do so to get the match everyone wants to see

Does he deserve a shot or not ? He has to get his licence back first but no doubt he would beat most of the current heavyweights at the moment in the division

Don't believe Vitali will want to hang around to fight Haye. There is no %age in it for him & the Ks are calculating, not emotional men.

If Vitali retires after beating Charr then his titles will fall vacant & I suspect Haye will be nominated to fight for one of them, so I don't see him quitting just yet.

If Del-boy wants to continue he needs to drop down a level. At domestic level he can try & work on a defensive technique other than trying to break the other guy's hands with his head.

That Froch Carl - he makes you laugh don't he ?

Il Leone

saying Vitali lost to Lennox on an injury seems, to me, a bit pedantic. We're not talking about a twisted ankle or dislocated shoulder here. The idea of professional boxing is to land damaging punces. If A punches B so hard in the face that the fight is stopped on cuts then that isn't really a case of B being 'unlucky'.

Yawn...

"Of course, there were underlying problems with the bout. That two young men had a punch-up at a news conference was not, in itself, one of them.."
Come on Ben - with a gun??!

I was half expecting Chisora to head butt Haye after he went over to shake his hand, but then the penny dropped after i heard Chisora say they would be dontaing 20 grand to a charity.

I think this fight was well thought out right from the start. And fair play to them.

Haye the deserved winner and proved he is an excellent fighter, someone said he was huffing and puffing, but maybe the same person didnt see that Haye was hit with a very powerful shot when he defences were down at the end of one of the rounds.

Credit where credit is due and Haye owned the ring lastnight, but Chisora hasnt done anything to prove he is a credible HW yet...

Vitali willl not be over concerned that Haye beat what he would consider a bum, and his rating for Haye is not that much higher.

People have a split verdict on weather the Klitsko brothers are boxing legends.

You can only beat whats in front of you and they have dealt with every single challenge that around and nobody is getting anywhere near them.

Its always the most stupid argument about who would beat who in different generations.

IN 15 years time there will be another undisputed HW champion, they will have their own followers and the K brothers followers will still back them and the new fans will be saying how their star is better than everyone.

The K brothers are the best of this generation, thats without any doubt.

But anyone who says that they are better than Ali are just insane or dont know anything about boxing. Ali was a once in a lifetime fighter like Mayweather, Sugar Ray and a very few select others.

IIgnore all lesser crimes if anything more serious has been comitted ... interesting proposition Ben ... Fight shouldn't have happened until the fallout from the ridiculous night in Germany has been properly dealt with. Why Boxing will not escape the seedy and dirty reputation it has. Does not properly police itself and thinks that rules are there as a challenge to avoid rather than be adhered to ...

Whatever your opinion of the rights and wrongs, David Haye being back to his best is a shot-in-the-arm for the UK and international heavyweight division. Now, at least, we have three meaningful fighters, which includes Fury and Price. Admittedly, Haye is probably the best of the trio right now (his ability to fight like a middleweight while landing thunderous punches makes him a cut above), but in the long run my money is on David Price. Tyson Fury has his moments, but he's a disaster waiting to happen.

What rules are you talking 41? No rules have been broken. Nothing untoward has happened.

One of the comments on the fight report made an interesting point re: Vlad vs Haye - both were fairly tentative in that fight and Vlad is better at it with his height, jab, experience, and we know that Haye had some kind of discomfort with his toe/footwear (not an excuse to throw so few meaningful punches) which could have contributed to him not trusting the right hand which he uses to nail his best punches.

If he fought against Vitali, he'll have different problems as Vitali is known to be tough as nails and even Haye's best punches may be ineffective, however if he can outwork Vitali, and stay away from that jab, maybe he has a chance of winning, but he'd need to be more aggressive than against Vlad.

As for Fury and Price - David Price is interested in fighting Chisora so we may find out this year if he deserves the hype which he's getting so far, Tyson Fury on the other hand - what precisely makes him good? Being 7ft tall? He needs to show he can punch before people get crazy about him.

And this is a stupid comment:
3. At 11:08 15th Jul 2012, Blobplop wrote:
Nonsense stuff here by a man who doesn't know his boxing.

If you read Ben's blogs on Carl Froch, Amir Khan and David Haye last year you'll see how untrue that comment is.

Come on Froch Carl when was the last time the Kilitcho's fought outside there comfort zone and boxed anywhere except fot germany Ali would have beaten the 2 of these so call best fighters ever at the same time. When Ali boxed boxing was a global event he had fights all over the world and would fight any boxer in his own back yard in front of very hostile fans when did the Ks do this last neither of them would fight haye in London

@ andy240772

Since Vitali lost to Lewis he has had 12 fights and only 6 of them have actually been in Germany. 4 were in the States, 1 in Switzerland and 1 in Poland. He cannot really be labelled as someone who doesn't fight away.

However, it's probably fair to say that on those 6 occasions he was out of Germany, they were not particularly dangerous opponents though.

The problem is, they both hold the belts, and history shows that if you want the belts, you have to go and take them out of their backyard, not the other way around.

The good part of that is that Haye has never had a problem going to someone else backyard.

I think Carl Froch needs to have a word with himself. For someone like him, an experienced and accomplished boxer to say that the Klitchsko's are the greatest ever heavyweights beggars belief! Ali would have beaten the pair of them on the same night. I find it hard to believe he is being serious. In my opinion it wouldn't have been just Ali either. Lewis beat one and would certainly have beaten the other. Tyson would have destroyed them in his prime along with Foreman. Thinking about it I would probably add Frazier, Norton and Shavers to that list too. They are good heavyweights. Great? Debatable, greatest ever? You are joking. They have beated all who have stood in their way and will be hall of famers for sure. It is no fault of theirs that they have been around in a very poor era. They are also extremely professional, great ambassadors and deserve all the riches their success brings them. Greatest ever? Please get real.

(Ben Dirs)........... believe it or not, young men have been having punch-ups for thousands of years and, I boldly predict, will be in a thousand years’ time. Probably on Mars.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hahahhahahahahah was worth reading your blog just for that comment alone :)
Good blog and sounds like a case of "alls well that ends well"........now that Haye and Chisora are best buds how about they take on the the Klitschko brothers in the first ever "Tag team" boxing match.......Now theres a blockbuster of a fight i would love to see.......cmon Mr Warren get it arranged lol

Ah Ben Dirs I come from the age when people were often classed as either light heavyweight or cruiserweight. But you come from the age where an argument is dismissed over a trivial matter. Don't worry guys everything is all OK in the world of boxing with people like our Ben given print space. No doubt the next match will be made legal by the Boxing Board of San Marino, anything to avoid the British Boxing Board of Control eh

This should be called All's Well East End's well.

I would put £100 on Haye knocking Vitali out if they fought. And I'm not normally a betting man! Vitali could not cope with his speed, the only way Haye could lose is if he stood off and was too cautious about getting hit. They simply must get it on, for the sake of boxing. The world wants it to happen, it seems the only people who don't are Vitali and his big mouthed, trash talking manager!

What drugs is froch carly on? By using pure statistics, any lowlife can make a claim that Brian Neilsen was the best heavyweight of all time - he went 48-0 until he was stopped in 1999.

All hail Brian Neilsen - legend. Why? The stats say so.

Joe Calzaghe finished at 46-0. According to carly, hes better then Harry Greb and Benny Leonard - his record says that, never mind it is log jammed with your rick thornberrys, will mcintyres, mger mgerechians etc etc etc.

Lunacy.

Both fighters at the press conference with metal fencing between them. Frank Warren smiling. Cuddling at the end of the fight. Boxing is morphing into WWE wrestling. Joke fight by a couple of average sportsmen with big ego's.

Nice article Ben, and fully agree, it was a cracker of a fight. My only problem is the number of people believing that Haye could now beat Vitali, by somehow using the two fighters showing against Chisora as a yardstick. Firstly, Vitali injured his shoulder in his outing, and was unable to use both hands efficiently from the third round onwards. The fact that he beat a good pressure fighter with the full use of only one hand is testament to his ability. Secondly, and this is where Vitali deserves even more credit, he wasn't swinging from the chandeliers complaining to all and sundry about the injury either. This led a lot of casual followers to inflate the performance of 'Del Boy', believing that Vitali had finally aged over-night, and that someone like Haye with his speed and power would be terminal for Vitali.
In fact had Haye not succumbed to pulling out his toe after his defeat to Wlad, he would have garnered far more credit for his performance than he did.
For me, Vitali has let the public believe that he has finally come of age, has taken this tune-up against Charr to test the shoulder, and will indeed follow in his brothers footsteps and take Haye upon his offer, where I feel that a fully functioning Vitali will be too powerful, too awkward, and too damn tough for Haye.
But it would be a cracker non the less

Styles make fights - Haye wont beat Vitali. These pages were full of people predicting Haye would KO Wladimir last year and what happened?

Haye chooses who to be aggressive against, like last night. He didnt take any chances vs Wladimir as he didnt want to get caught himself - there was no combination punching, just excessive caution. Haye wont be able to get under Vitali's jab but then again who is out there for Vitali to fight? Its a very poor era.

@37

The fact is Vitali had Lewis on the ropes until he was busted open and the doctors declared he was unfit to continue... it did not go down well with the Las Vegas crowd who normally treat Lewis as one of their own to see Vitali suddenly being stopped on medical grounds because he has blood pouring from his face

It was the medical doctor who said Vitali was not fit to continue but Vitali in himself was prepared to fight on.

Lewis was in one tough fight and he realised he got away with it and retired never offered Vitali his rematch

Up to that point Lewis was on the ropes and was in real trouble

IL LEONE, Lewis fought Vitali in the Staples Centre, Los Angeles - not Las Vegas.

Lewis was past his best, he was 38. It was a terrific fight, the last great heavyweight title fight. Lewis gutted it out vs a 32 year old Vitali, who had analysed Lewis for a while and did well. Ultimately, Lewis cut Vitali, and the fight was over after 6 rounds. Lewis didnt have anything left to prove. If Vitali couldnt beat Lewis on that night, he never will.

Lewis was the underdog vs Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Evander Holyfield. He upset the odds. Thats what makes him special.

And since when did the Americans like Lennox Lewis? I wish people would stop making stuff up on this website.

Totally agree Nav.

Vitali is a world class heavyweight but an old and visiblly out of shape Lewis still had too much class for him when they fought. Vitali was certainly in front but was on the verge of being stopped by Lewis when the fight was called off. It is more a sign of the decline of the heavyweight division that the Klitschko's have been able to dominate for so long.

@49 blimmer, there never was an era of light heavy or cruiser. Go back 25 to 30 years and it was light heavy, then heavy. Cruiser was brought in to recognise the gulf between light heavy and the increasingly large and athletic super heavies.

Have to disagree about Vitali beating Haye though. Vitali and Wladimir are two very different boxers. Vitali looks very amateurish in comparison to Wlad which is probably down to Manny Steward who has moulded Wlad into a complete fighter.

If the fight does take place then i think Haye will win fairly cosily as Vitali looks like a fighter that is finally showing his age. Even allowing for the hand excuse he still looked very slow and ponderous.

Il Leone
"Vitali had Lewis on the ropes until he was busted open and the doctors declared he was unfit to continue... it did not go down well with the Las Vegas crowd who normally treat Lewis as one of their own to see Vitali suddenly being stopped on medical grounds because he has blood pouring from his face.It was the medical doctor who said Vitali was not fit to continue but Vitali in himself was prepared to fight on."

I remember a sports journalist, who wasn't a big Lewis fan, said you could use this as a perfect test. Anyone who said the fight shouldn't have been stopped knew nothing. When he stopped it, the fight doctor said Vitali's eye was the worst thing he'd seen in his life - he'd been in Vietnam. Another onlooker said that if they'd delayed it any longer, Vitali's eye & much of one half of his face would've been sloshing around on the canvas.

In Olympic year, you may long for the Pantechnikron, or the bare-knuckle days when Jack Broughton was blinded, but this is an area where, I think, boxing has made progress.

"Lewis was in one tough fight and he realised he got away with it and retired never offered Vitali his rematch"

Yes so ? SRL never gave Hagler a rematch. So does that prove Hagler better ?

Calzaghe never gave Robin Reid a rematch. So does that prove Reid better ?

Although I don't consider them the greatest fighters of all time, I like the Klitschkos. They are honourable, decent, highly intelligent men.

Vitali has never denied Lennox beat him fairly.

Why do so many posters claim otherwise ?

Blimmer,
you know less than nothing & don't pretend otherwise.
The light-heavy division has always ended at 175lbs.
Haye is a perfect example of why we needed the Cruiserweight division.
At 6'3 & 15 stone he is exactly the same size as Muhammad Ali at his peak & is roughly same size as James Jefferies who was always said to be the physical peak to which all other h/w boxers could only aspire.
If he's too small, it shows how boxing has changed.

Rocky Marciano was 4" shorter & 20lbs ligher than Haye !

It is clear the people complaining about the fight are NOT boxing fans. I was there last night and the crowd was rocking from start to finish in the driving rain.

Both fighters boxed fairly and the sport of boxing was the winner. 30,000 fans are testimony to that. You armchair experts are a joke - the real boxing fans turned up and loved every minute of it !!! And we would turn up for Haye and any of the Klitchkos.

You don't speak for us so ... pipe down !

Long live boxing.

Other sports like football have problems to overcome. Why is that not sensationalised?

Boxing is an easy target and unfairly gets picked on.

1eriugenus @64

Rocky Marciano was 4" shorter & 20lbs ligher than Haye !
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marciano and Haye in the same sentence, is sacrilege. But I see the point.

That old saying size isn't everything, was never more appropriate when speaking of Rocky as a heavyweight.

So the k bros had to be in the era of ali, etc for them to be considered great??

Also lmao at the NFL and NBA arguement, but conveniantly no one mentions the fact that the eastern europeans due to communism were not allowed to compete until the 1990's???The eastern europeans are naturally tougher than both the USA and the UK.

Also i find it amusing that "im trolling" yet the stats of the k bros destroymost the the so called greats....with replies sich as "facts and stats are not everything" surely shows that im not trolling.

And finally vitali has never been down in a fight and was schooling lennox lewis and was up on all 3 score cards. Lewis was holding and hugging illegally, and vitali had 2 weeks prep for the fight...

The k bros are the best ever...

Rocky (for his weight) was probably the fittest, strongest and most dedicated fighter of all time. Saying that, I don't think he would have been able to live with some of bigger heavyweights, e,g. Liston, Ali, Holmes, Johnson, Lewis.

Froch Carl .. are you having a laugh ?? The Klitchkos are the best ever ?? Leave off !!

The best at the moment .. I will grant you - but the heavyweight division is as dead as I can remember it .. since the 70s.

Blimmer, boxing is run only for money by people with no principles whatsoever... Really? Wow, how profound, I guess you could always go and seek solace in the world of football.... Oh, wait a minute.....

Froch Carl, so stats mean everything? Ok in that case I put forward one Sven Ottke as the best SM ever, I mean, he never lost so he must be the best, right? Do me favour

Froch Carl

If statistics were our measuring tool then Joe Calzaghe would be the greatest of all time. You'd have to be pretty dumb to think that.

Back in the 1920s there was a h/w by the odd name of "Young Stribling", google if you don't believe me. He ran up an unbelievable record that stretched to, like, 199-0-0. He achieved this mainly by hard work, being prepared to drive anywhere in the US to fight 4 or 5 times a week, allied to a certain unscrupulousness - his opponents included his chauffeur & he knocked over the same man, under different names, in various different towns.

Eventually his people lost the plot & put him in with a proper fighter, Max Schmeling, who, unsurprisingly, beat him like an old drum.

Shortly after all the nocturnal driving took its toll & he died, tragically young, in a motorway pile-up.

Had the car crash come a few months earlier, before Schmeling, he'd have gone to his grave with the best record any boxer ever had. And was he a great fighter ?

We don't revere Muhammed Ali for his record. We revere him because he beat;
1 Liston
2 Patterson
3 Frazier
4 Foreman
5 Norton

If "stats" seem to mean so much, and explain what is great and what isn't, here is a simple method to disprove those stats.

Tyson Fury has a 100% win record.
David Price has a 100% win record.
Both Klitschko's don't.

By statistics, two unproven British fighters are by default better than the two brothers.

Statistics mean nothing, they can be manipulated to point at any angle you wish them to in order to further an argument.

some of these excuses are halarious to discredit the k bros. Ive gone from a "troll" to people admitting the stats bck me up, but then sven otkke and calaghe came up??

Firstly sven only fought in his country and had had alot of dodgy decisions, plus it is well documented that he dodged many great fighters.

Compare that to the k bros, vitali for example fought adamek in his home country and beat him to a pulp. Plus whereas sven otkke has had some dubious home cooked decisions, not only have the k bros hardly lost fights, they have hardly ever been down on the score cards, that is how superior they are. plus they have faced EVERY contender America, UK and the rest of the world have thrown at them and blitzed them...

So woeful analogy.

But lets talk about stats show we, ALI blatantly was given crooked decisions against norton, some experts say 3 times he lost in their meetings. Norton would have been knocked pillar to post.

Henry cooper (like alot of ALIS opponets) weighed in at 180 pounds. This would make adamek look like andre the giant. But ironically Henry cooper actually was cheated out and almost koed the bigger ali. Imagine if adamek had kncoked down vitai for the ten count, you lot would be be up in arms...

I could disect ALIS overated career in seconds...and show you that the cubans and eastern europeans(two major boxing countries) could not compete professioally in his time...

Facts are vitali only ever lost due to injury, and wlad is about to break the all time record of title defences against world elite level.

and im still waiting for ben dirs and co to do an article on this fact...

I have watched most of Hayes' fights online during his career. Thought this was a superb performance and unlike the lucky neck punch that got rid of Khan yesterday morning Haye's left cross right hook combination was just incredible. The problem is really that at 15 stone he just isn't heavy enough at his ideal fighting weight to go up against the Klitschkos. And Lennox would have bullied him out of the ring. I know the heavy weight division is a mess at the moment but we could do with Haye and the Klitschkos all retiring and giving the young lads a chance. I know money makes fighters do silly things (Hatton coming back wth?) but the heavy weight division almost needs to start afresh with the young guns such as Tyson Fury and David Price and Chisora will be somewhere in the mix if he can get properly fit. He certainly played his bad guy role with aplomb for this one and was very impressed after the fight

Mr Froch, I know you are entitled to your opinion, but do you seriously believe that a poll of eminent boxers and trainers past and present would agree that the Klitchkos are the greatest heavyweights of all time? You have to be joking. Best of their era? Definitely. Best of all time not a chance. I am embarrassed to admit that I left the great Larry Holmes out of my previous post. (sincere apologies) In his prime he would have destroyed them too. The Eastern Assasin was a phenomenal fighter with quite possibly the best heavyweight left jab ever. He was robbed against Spinks and never got the credit he deserved as he followed Ali.

@ At 10:51 15th Jul 2012, froch carl wrote:
As we know vitali and wlad are the best ever heavyweights...


What a load of nonsense........ ali, foreman, tyson, louis, holmes, marciano even holyfield!!! and thats off the top of my head.

all of these were in a different class to the klitschkos and around when the heavyweight division was a lot stronger!!!

Froch carl @76

I could disect ALIS overated career in seconds...and show you that the cubans and eastern europeans(two major boxing countries) could not compete professioally in his time...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It must be the water, no one with a brain could make that statement.

How do you explain the best that the Eastern Bloc offered, could not stop Ali winning a gold medal in Rome, yes i know light heavy but he completely outclassed Shatkov the Russian in the quarters.

Oh, another from the Ali era, 'Smokin Joe' winning his gold at the following Olympics in 64. Yes again beating a Russian in the semis.

All the stats in the world never tell a true story.

Try looking at the standard of fighter the 2 K's have come up against and then try telling us they were superior to the fighters of Ali's day.

Ali fought in an era, which is generally considered by anyone who knows anything about the sport to be the golden age.

Ben
Can I add my voice to the request that you look at the film of the Khan-Garcia fight, particularly at the Garcia power shots. Though Khan put himself in trouble by thinking he could attack relentlessly, having piled up the points in the first two and a half rounds, and being qucker to the punch and more accurate, Garcia was throwing looping overhand rights and lefts of the kind which Khan with his upright stance in coming out of exchanges has previously been caught by. Clever tactics and powerful punches, but none of them in the MoQ target area: the first devastating punch being behind Khan's ear in the area between the jugular and spine, and clearly either impeded blood to the brain or concussed the spinal and lateral nerves; the final knockdown was from a similar punch on the top of Khan's head,followed by a right hook to the jaw as he went down. Apart from the last punch, none of Garcia's power punches was within the target areas as defined by the rules.

This fight was everything that I expected. David Haye's slickness and skill against Derek Chisora's relentlessness.. But what have we really learnt about the two fighters? Only that Derek Chisora will probably never be a world-class fighter and that David Haye has exceptional power but most people would have been able to tell you that before the fight.

Now if Haye can manage to get an opportunity to fight one of the Klitschko brothers then his tactics have to be completely different to how he fought Wladamir and to how he fought Chisora. He won't be able to push one of the Klitschko brothers back into the ropes like Chisora allowed him to do and just trying to time and counter their jab alone will not win him the fight. Will be interesting to see what Haye will do differently..

@78 Funny you mention Larry Holmes because of course he fought at a time when the division was poor and never got the same credit as Ali despite having a superior record. Tyson was fighting bums in the 80s and was made to look a lot better than he was and was totally outclassed by the two great fighters he fought in Holyfield and Lewis. The Klitchscos style may be less action packed but these guys don't even lose rounds.

Best ever? I think they would be up there just because their size and style makes them so difficult to fight against but they aren't unbeatable.

For all of those asking for Haye to be given another shot at one of the world champions. Consider this, he stunk the place out against Wlad and ran away all night too frightened to engage losing a wide decision. He has just beaten a thug, that other fighters at domestic level beat up before he did. He has not proven his crdentials for a shot at either of the brothers with this heavily staged non event, much in the same ilk as the miss match against Harrison.

If you give Haye the benefit of the doubt about his toe, he still is the ONLY next match for Vitaly, if he dodges then proves he isn't a great champion, albeit be stupid to turn down the payday at Wembley either way. Haye was supreme at Cruiserweight and he KO'd the "thug" Klitschko couldn't, he deserves a shot and there is no doubt Haye is a world class fighter and one of the best UK fighters in recent times.

Did I fall asleep for 6 months ? Is it pantomime season already ??

When asked if he was the Greatest Tennis Player of all time, Roger Federer said 'I don't think you can compare different eras'. It's hard to say who is the greatest of all time and the use of stats means nothing. Unless all the greats were able to fight each other at their peak there is no way of knowing.

Those deriding Haye as a title challenger seriously need to take a look at the "quality" of some of those getting shots in recent years. Are you trying to make me believe he's a worst contender than Manuel Charr? Wladimir just had to fight Tony Thompson again, in a foregone conclusion that had zero interest from all but the most rabid Klitschko fan.

And don't even get me started on the opponents paper champion Povetkin tends to defend against. He wanted Rahman, for goodness sake, poor old utterly shot Rahman.

Is it any wonder Holyfield fights on?

I find it funny that people say this fight and the fighters actions have tarnished the boxing legacy and that they're a disgrace to the sport. This kind of behaviour is nothing new, the likes of Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Lewis ect all trash talked and got in fights. Put things in to perspective, Mike Tyson was a convicted rapist, yet we don't talk about how he was a disgrace to the sport and never should have fought.

Love him or loath him Haye has been fantastic for heavyweight boxing. Why? because he's got people excited about the sport again. People who weren't/aren't boxing fans are now talking about his fight, and the Klitshchko's are now household names. And lets be honest he's had a pretty successful career at two weight levels which included fighting against Valuev which the kilts never did.

On reflection, a good night for boxing I think. Hang on, hear me out...

When I saw what happened in Munich the cynic in me thought it was at best a staged brawl for a future fight and at worse a genuine brawl in front of the cameras, painting British boxing in a bad light. Now it's all done and dusted two boxers have made a lot of money and 30,000 plus many more viewers have enjoyed an entertaining and high-profile fight. Even those that claim not to have enjoyed it are still feeling the need to voice their opinions, and that has to be a good thing for a sport generally agreed to be in decline.

I used to hate the idea that it was all staged - I didn't want to be taken for a fool. But now I'm thinking that if it was staged then that's surely more acceptable than genuine hatred and bloodlust. Boxing is sport; sport is a business; that business is entertainment.

We're all here talking about boxing. More specifically, many are talking about four British heavyweights (including Price and Fury) - something we may not have been doing 10 years ago. With the efforts of channel 5 and the lippy Haye and Chisora kids are hopefully taking notice of boxing at the moment. Whilst we obviously don't want to raise a generation of press conference-brawling fighters we have to start by getting people (and kids) talking about boxing. I'm trying to avoid typing 'there's no such thing as bad publicity', but I guess that's the crux of my argument. Let's hope that kids are talking aboutt he fight in playgrounds this morning.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Was it just me or did anyone else notice the Ref stopped the 3rd round prematurely? As the end of the round approached, the obligatory "10 seconds to go" signal sounded from the side of the ring (the clack-clack sound), Chisora then caught Haye with a left hook that appeared - although it wasnt conclusive - to shake Haye. The Ref then jumped between the fighters with around 7-8 seconds left in the round. He also made a signal to suggest he didnt hear the bell, which makes sense as it hadnt sounded. I was about 30 rows back and nobody in the crowd heard it either. The TV coverage also shows the countdown clock disappear from the screen - as it always does between rounds - with several seconds remaining.

Now..if you want to talk conspiracy???

@mike 78

I really do not care what peoples opinions are in the main stream, as alot of it is sheeple stuff. "ali the greatest", "pele the greatest"
Its also interest that people pick and choose when its a weka era or not. Jack nickalaus had arnold palmer, gery player, seve, tom watson, and won more majors than tiger woods, yet woods in a weaker era gets put on the same pedistool???

The k bros would wipe the floor with any heavyweight, bare in mind the talented david haye is the same frame as ali. 6 ft 3, 15 stone. yet look at the schooling wladimir gave him.

As for the gold medals, so what, wladimir won the gold medal. Bit as audley harrosn and khan have proved, the amateur game is a different sport to the professionals.

Facts are the k bros would power over ali, he wouldnt get near them...

The facts that you sheeple on here dont even dare admit that the k bros are top ten atg is beyond a joke, and did i here someone say hollyfield would beat them...surely THAT IS A WIND UP...

Two bad tempered, ill mannered, conceited boxers at least had the decency to put on a good fight. Let's hope that's the last we see of them, but I doubt it.

Froch Carl, watch Vitali's fight with Lewis again without those blinkers on and check out how damaged he was from those huge uppercuts that Lennox was bouncing off his face. That is, a past his prime 38 year old Lennox Lewis who may have been down on the cards, but was on his way to stopping Vitali. The stoppage for the cut was correct, and a punch caused the cut. Lennox won fairly, end of. I do rate both the K's highly but best ever? No. I know you won't agree, but given the volume of people disagreeing with you, I'd say the stats back me up ;-)

CHRISTIAN LYONS vitali was up on the score cards, ring side press row and computerbox stats. You call lewis past his prime yet vitali was very green and was a step in at 2 weeks notice.

As for the fight, please dont patronise me on it, ive seen it millions of time and im just a click away from youtube to see it again.

Lennox lewis was schooled, alot of his 2big shots, were from him holding, there was one point where he literally held vitali for about ten seconds and illegally hit the kidney area. He should have a point deducted.

Lewis won, but i think you sound a bit of a fan boy if you dont think vitali deserved a rematch. Lewis said if the "money was right i will remtach vitali".

40 million dollas later he claimed his mummy didnt want him to fight vitali...so i know who th real winner is...

Haha I love the froch carl school of thought on here:

My opinions are fact yours are wrong

My stats fit my argument, your stats are wrong because I said so

When I cite a fighter being up on the scorecards (by 2 rounds at halfway point), then he was schooling the other fighter, despite half his face falling off and at risk of being permanently blinded.

Brilliant stuff

froch, you don't rate Ali, Pele, Woods? All of these people have legitimate claims to be there or there abouts at the best at their sports. You mention that Nicklaus had greats around him wihch propels him further, who exactly have the Klitchkos had?

could it be that the k bros are so far ahead of the game????

Like phil the power taylor style...barney is good, but phil is just awesome.

I feel the same could be said about the k bros.

As for the lewis fight, yes well done, one of the few shots lewis landed(lewis was completely outlanded for the fight), just happened to badly cut vitali. It wa sa freak incident, and the chances of that happening in the next fight is extremely remote. And you know that...

But even with vitali "face falling off" he was still out landing and out working lewis, which goes to show in the rematch we know lewis would get blitzed. Hence why he was offered 40 million for the rematch but did what his mother told him.

The point with pele, is that hes only great through nostalgia, like ali, you disect his career and it becomes painfully obvious hes no where near as good as messi, maradonna etc...