Dunces nixing Mayweather-Pacquiao

I really hope the controversy gets resolved. This is fight everyone is talking about, even non-boxing fans. I never thought such a trivial issue such as a blood test will hold it up. I hope it doesn't.

Mayweather will never go down as a great fighter because of the way he avoids fights and generally conducts himself outside of the ring.

Of course Pacquiao doesn't want blood taken everyday. No way can you train at 100% like that. Olympic sprinters like Bolt complained about it so what is it going to do to a much smaller guy like Pacquiao. It won't affect Mayweather as much because as a counter puncher he is nowhere near as active in the ring.

This is just more messing around by Mayweather, after the requests for heavier gloves, a heavier weight limit and extra 'wiggle room' to make the weight.

There were people screaming that this fight would never happen because Mayweather didn't want it and that is proving to be the case. Hopefully Mayweather will wake up and realise he's missing out on $50 million.

The coverage of this fight is so anti-Mayweather it is crazy!! In professional sport drug testing is 100% neccesary why should boxing be any different?? With the rumors that are surrounding pac-man and his use of steroids im surprised that he is resisting testing as its only fuelling the fire.

However I think this is really no more than a sub-plot, this fight is to big not to happen and the money involved is too great for this not to happen.

Mayweather by SD by the way!!!!!

The fight will go ahead, there's way too much money involved. Mayweather's messing about trying to get an advantage, he's almost as good at mind games as Sir Alex!

P.S. Why can't Paquiao just give a hair sample for his drugs test? It's a better way than giving blood anyway!

iv heard mayweather may be taking a tactical approach trying to psych out pacquiao with the blood test, however i see it as stupid and if mayweather ruins boxings biggest fight in years for a blood test then it shows hes scared of pacquiao and a disgrace to what he has cintributed in this sport

1. If the roles were reversed, and a challenger had made the same request, Mayweather's camp would tell him to take a hike (and that's putting it mildly). "Nobody can be as talented as I" and "This is the result of God-given talent" would be a Mayweather response. Am I wrong on this?

2. If you make a request like this, institute it for all fighters - and not single out Pacquiao. Why wasn't blood requested from Marquez, who Floyd thought was the better fighter?

Mayweather is having a laugh. I hope that it can be sorted as it would really be a great fight and boxing needs this.

I think Mayweather will win should it take place but only because of his defensive tactics.

I would love to be wrong mind.

Good blog Ben.

Is Mayweather's request really that unreasonable? (Whatever the real reasons for it)

He is simply asked Pacquiao to take a blood test in the 30 days prior to the bout. If Pacquiao takes it a couple of weeks before the fight he will have plenty of time to recover, Mayweather also has to take the test.

I feel the reaction from Pacquiao's camp has played right into Mayweather's hands. Why are they being so defensive? Either way, Floyd wins.

Trust me, even if Pacquiao adamantly refuses the test, Mayweather will still fight him but there maybe a small chance the fight gets delayed, just adding to the hype even more.

Mayweather is very intelligent and this manouvre has got Pacquiao cornered and Mayweather is in control. If Pacquiao says no to the test, he keeps his pride but people will question why he has such power. If Pacquiao says yes to the test, he proves the doubters wrong but gave in to Mayweathers demand, giving Mayweather a big psychological edge.

I just applaud Mayweather for this, providing he does actually go ahead with the fight in the end which I am sure he will. Mayweather is very astute and is a true master at knowing that this fight will be won in the mind not in the ring, well done Pretty Boy, who is now the favourite in my eyes.

"This is just more messing around by Mayweather, after the requests for heavier gloves, a heavier weight limit and extra 'wiggle room' to make the weight."

Firstly, this article is sooo anti-mayweather it beggers belief. it wouldnt harm the writer of the article, if he bothered to explain to the readers that Pacquiou AND MAYWEATHER will be subjected to the random drug testing, not just the pacman like this article suggests.

Also the above quote, which ive taken from omt2009, also neeeds to checked. for the record mate, mayweathers camp have denied that they have asked for bigger gloves, weights etc etc. why would mayweather ask for wiggle room, when he agreed to paying $10 million to pacman for every ounce hes over the weight limit as reported by numerous sources over the past couple of days.

personally, i dont see what all the fuss is coming from the pacman camp, both fighters will be subjected to the drug testing, and its only for the best interests of both fighters... there should be no valid reason as to why pacquiou is not willing to givce his blood, unless he is hiding something. he needs to stop all the nonsense, agree to the testing since all other details are confirmed like weight,ring size, location, gloves, the fight can go ahead.

im sorry but how is this mayweather fault? what better way to set an example that you dont need PED to be a success than the two best fighters in the world to both go under a proper blood test, not a urine test which proves nothing these days? pacquiaos making it seem like hes got something to hide and roach and arums pathetic comments only further suggest he is guilty of some wrong doing, PACQUIAO is the guilty party in ruining the biggest fight of the century so far, not floyd. Its a perfectly reasonable request, Pacquiao either doesnt want the fight or is on steds simple as, look at the mans tattoos and tell me hes afraid of a little blood!

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I'm quite sure that If Mayweather agreed to having his blood taken 30 days before the fight there would be no arguement from the Pacquiao camp, but from what I've read it's just Mayweather that wants him drug tested and that's wrong in my honest opinion. If Mayweather agreed to the blood test then I cant see any reason why Pacquiao should hide from it. End of day I want to see this fight happen it could be the fight that wakes boxing up and makes it realise it still is a good sport and money can be made and it's not a dead horse anymore

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Ben - because is the biggest fight for a long time, and they are the greatest fighters this century and it would set an example to any young fighter thinking of taking steds that they dont need it as both have moved up throught the lesser weight divisions? At the end of the day this could ruin boxing, the p4p number one refusing a drugs test? what a joke the sports in trouble as it is without this. BTW you mention pacquaios clear on the nevada commision, is it not interesting that he isnt required to be tested to fight there until may when his year long license from the hatton fight runs out and hes forced the fight through to march despite his political aspirations? when its all put together it just reeks of wrong doing, like a thief claiming not to have taken something but then refusing to have their bag checked
Mr P - of course Floyd would be taking the test aswell.

I am/was?! a fan of Pacquiao however I am completely with Mayweather on this issue. If Pacquiao has nothing to hide then he should have no problem with the drugs testing, as people here have pointed out, Mayweather will also be tested in the same way.

This story has almost instantaneously tarnished Pacquiao's image as far as I am concerned and a lot of people, as I am, will be wondering whether Pacquiao's and Roach's achievements are down to substance abuse, or hard work.

People constantly talk about boxing needing a shake up and that it is losing a battle with the UFC, surely a fight of this magnitude will give a much needed boost to the flagging ship, however, it will only do this if everyone is clear that no cheating has gone on.

Why not drag boxing into the 21st century, why not clean up the game, just what are Pacquiao and Roach so afraid of here? Lets not drag boxing's name through the mud here.

Poor Coxy!

As I said earlier Ben, Mayweather is in complete control. Even after all this pullava, he can easily say he is happy to go ahead with the fight and everything will be back to normal with the only difference being that people will have more doubt about Pacquiao's steroid use, when previously no-one even thought about it.

Pacquiao is stuck as despite Mayweather's annoying-ness, he is claming the moral high ground, and that is tough to look good against.

I can't help but feel that Mayweather is just having a bit of fun, with maybe an element of truth, but the main aim being to genuinely get under Pacquiao's skin.

I think he has definitely done that, and I can't wait to see the next developments of what promises to be the best fight in over two decades!

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From what I have been reading Bob Arum has said that Manny does not mind subjecting himself to 3 blood tests. One given in January during the week the fight was/is meant to be announced, one thirty days from the fight, and the final one immediately following the fight in his locker room. Now I am no expert on performance enhancing drugs, but this coupled with random Urine tests leading up to the fight, surely nothing will get past that?

Also Ben, I am interested on your views on how you think the fight would go if it did happen? I am a massive fan of both fighters, though more so of Pacquaio than Mayweather, however currently I see Floyd winning by 12 UD.

The amount of blood taken is small and it is impossible for that amount to make any difference to anyone physical condition let alone a professional athlete, saying that it's not floyds job to decide the anti doping rules in boxing

david, urine tests prove nothing these days, and PED could easily be flushed out in 30 days and scheduled tests would be useless.

bob arum is an ass!
this is not floyd stalling on the fight, but more bob and his gang of schmucks not willing to give into there "pride"

its quite simple, have the test and get on with the fight that millions of fans want to see.
what has manny got to hide?
for a man that is willing to go toe to toe with some of the best fighters around - he is afraid of getting his blood taken?
and this excuse that roach has come out with about being tired for three days - this would also apply to floyd and i honestly dont believe that for elite athletes / sportsmen like floyd and manny this would be an issue.

bottom line is that manny is hiding something or is running scared!!
prove me wrong if u want, but i know brutha floyd gonna knock u out!!

Yes, yes. It's all idle speculation. Sorry mods for over-stepping with my opinions. Doping is an issue though. I agree with what many have already said. It's not Floyd's call to decide the testing protocol. Although it does seem flawed.

The best way to test is via blood analysis. Urine, hair, cheek cell swabs etc.. are all beatable by a doctor who is reasonably savvy. It should be blood and random is best. However it is up to the political body to decide and i agree that Floyd is taking advantage to play an extremely devious mind game. I'm optimistic it will go ahead, and the vitriol will only add to the spectacle.

bottom line is mannys the one ruining the biggest fight certainly in my lifetime, the most watched fight of all time, his own reputation and boxings already low reputation, its not floyds fault at all, as the article suggests, its a simple request and just look at the fuss being made by pacquiaos camp, iv already lost a lot of respect for manny and if the fight doesnt go ahead because of a drugs test his achievements will be doubted and he will be labled a cheat, he was talking about going up to light middle weight the other week, im sorry but with all this I am now finding it hard not to doubt him, especially with arum in his corner and his weak excuse of being afraid of needles with all his tatoos, as you said its not up to mayweather, but its not unreasonable to ask for a thorough drugs test in the biggest fight of a generation

As soon as anyone familiar with boxing saw that the fight was in danger, there was no question that it might be Pacquiao's camp at fault. You just knew it had to be Mayweather farting around, trying to gain some niggling little advantage, to exercise his need for control-freakery.

The whole thing is utterly ludicrous. Can anyone imagine a Usain Bolt race being jeoparised because an opponent was suspicious of his speed, and was demanding extra-curricular blood tests *of his own choosing*? Can anyone imagine a Rafael Nadal tennis match being endangered because his opponent was suspicious of the size of his bicep, and was demanding special blood tests before he agreed to play? It's a total farce, and shows boxing in the light of something more akin to WWE wrestling than a serious competitive sport.

The whole point of having drug tests in professional sport is that they are
1) Centrally controlled by an independent body
2) The same for everyone

The Nevada State Athletic Commission is the body with the remit to organise drug tests, and to be honest, Mayweather is openly bringing the sport into disrepute by his actions - and should be sanctioned by the licensing bodies.

My friend who does sport science, a subject which appears much harder than it sounds, tells me that alot of sportsman especially athletes and cyclists are on some sort of undetectable performance enhancing drug. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen. What is clear is that drug testing kicks up alot of stink whichever sport, you only have to look at the recent stance the Indian cricket team have taken.

As Ben says apart from a few wrinkles, such as date and glove/weight/ring size, negotiations for this fight has been relatively easy. It would be a travesty for the Boxing world if this fight does not happen...

Hi everyone, the question for me is not steroids but HGH (human growth hormone) I am no expert but what I understand is that the only way to identify high levels of HGH is by random blood testing... HGH is different to steroids in that it is harder to pick up in tests and can be taken and reduced to normal levels within 1 month. Hence the need for random blood testing and the many nfl/baseball players getting away with taking growth for years. People are giving Mayweather a hard time here - at the end of the day he is offering to do the same kind of testing and no one is saying it is definitely the case that samples will be taken on day of fight, just that they are random so it's a possibility.

Ultimateboxer2009, Mayweather has signed up to the $10 millon penalties now but that is after making the requests. They may deny that they made those requests but there has been a lot of talk about them from supposed 'insiders' and Roach has made comments about it too. I know who I believe out of Mayweather and Roach.

You see, this is all just a game to Mayweather. He is messing aroung with Pacquiao but he's also messing around with boxing fans around the world and as Ben Dirs quite rightly point out - most boxing fans are sick of this type of thing happening.

In what other sport could a guy escape punishment for openly claiming that another competitor must use steroids because they are so good, without any evidence at all? Yes, the press are biased against Mayweather and it's because he's a joke. He's can be an excellent inside the ring but out of it he's a joke. I don't blame Pacquaio one bit for wanting to walk away from this.

Btw, if they ever did fight then in my opinion it would be either a Manny win by (KO or decision). There's still a good chance that Floyd catches Manny with a counter punch like in the Hatton fight but I can't see him winning by decision simply because Pacquiao is too busy and too fast. Oscar nearly beat Floyd and Pacquiao is a much faster, busier and better fighter than ODH ever was (and I'm not just basing that on MP v ODH).

Cheers.

btw, I've just read some more of these replies and I just want to add that the rumours about steroid abuse were started by Mayweathers camp. Some people are making out like there have always been these rumours. Mayweather is scared to fight.

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There's an awful lot of comments getting removed.....

I was merely saying that all this speculation doesn't help when you think that Roach was the trainer of Toney when he failed (steroids) a drugs test post Ruiz... I won't mention my 2nd point by Lou DiBella was actually the first to claim that a Team Pacman member had a dubious past concerning the naughty pills.

What i find most bizarre, is the Manny went life and limb with Marquez down @ superfeather, yet couldn't get him out of there. Yet know he's knocking out bona-fide 140lb'rs in Hatton and Cotto. Yet when Marquez gets above 130lbs he looked like he was struggling like mad with Juan Diaz & Casamayor before looking absolutely horrendous against Mayweather Jr (slow, cumbersome etc).

Many are pointing the finger of blame at Mayweather Jr, yes he's bending the 'state' rules somewhat - But he's not asking for anything illegal, is he? The fact is that Manny doesn't want to get drug tested in his training camp, which is when he would be taking something (hypothetically). He knows about the rumours, so why not just put them to rest by agreeing to this quite simple request? Instead he's denying it and he's making himself look extremely dodgy in the process.

I agree completely with coxy0001

Mayweather isn't asking for anything illegal. In fact he is asking boxing to come up to speed with it's doping tests. Random tests are the only way clever athletes get collared.

omt2009 - I really don't see how we can say that floyd struggled with delahoya so will loose to pac cos pac smoked oscar. Boxing doesn't work like this. Styles make the fights pan out how they do and at the end of the day wasn't the fight between floyd and oscar done at light middle or something - basically delahoya had all the advantages that night, without the need to loose the weight that he did for pac....

Ben dirs is right - boxing doesn't need this. However, for me it is about time boxing and the nevada commission started sanctioning drug testing that is in line with other sports and taking responsibility for the question about pac and his maybe use of growth..

Ben,

this may be the cynical conspiracy theorist in me, but what do you reckon about this simply being a PR scam to generate more interest in the fight?

Perhaps Mayweather is hoping he can turn his £50m share into $60m. Maybe then he could afford to buy some class? Doubt it!

Dendy, re-read my post. I said that i wasn't basing my opinion on Pac v Oscar. I'm basing it on the fact that Oscar gave Mayweather some problems (if i remember rightly it was a split decision too) and I just think Pacquaio is a far better pressure fighter than Oscar was. Much faster, more accurate and more powerful. I'm not basing that on the Oscar v Pac fight because there is the possibility that Oscar was slightly drained by having to make weight.

Everybody seems to know best here (including the much questioned author of the article), so I'll throw in something different. I don't think this fight is going to happen.
Yes each fighter could potentially receive a 50 million dollar payoff for participating but both Floyd and Pacman have huge amounts at stake. This fight would be the fight of all fights, and both the winner AND the loser would be remembered. Pacquiao is the only fighter who most of the educated boxing world could see stopping Mayweather and the only fighter who has taken- completely justifiably- his title as the world's number one boxer. Considering Floyd's elephantine ego, surely this really vexes (and scares) him both personally and publicly?
I initially thought this whole fiasco was Mayweather's childishness and fear creeping out via a peculiar request for a drugs test but having mulled it over, it is both very clever and respectable- the attitude is whoever wins, wins 100 per cent fairly. Floyd, in his usual fashion, has been arrogant to request it but he is not making rules, he is suggesting something sensible. And Pacquiao's refusal does indicate he has something to hide. Furthermore, the reasons his PR team are giving are frankly nonsensical. Taking a couple of milligrams of blood is not going to fatigue anybody, let alone an athlete in peak physical condition.
This 'bout' has hit a stalemate and neither camp looks like budging. After all both fighters are rich, reputable and multi world-champions: why should they have to fight? The only people they will let down are the public, and I for one will be very disappointed if this doesn't go ahead. And this sort of meandering silliness in the sport is, as the author aptly illustrates, simply eroding its reputation still further.

maybe he could splash out and buy you a joke book 8ball?

@Ben Dirs
great blog mate, i'm a huge boxing fan, and i'm sick of the wya the sport is run, it starts with so many belts, have one per division and lets find out the best in the world at each, no "catch weights!" grrrr!
also we need somebody to govern the sport with the intention of changing the mentality that the "O" is the most important thing, we need to work out how we can make some sort of ladder league in each division to make your way to the top of your weight class and fight the definitive best for this division i.e. one champion per division

secondly and i really want your opinion on this, with regards to Maywesther making sure PAcman isn't taking anything, why wont a urine test be sufficient like in most other sports? whats the procedure behind the tests? and what sort of drugs does MAyweathers camp think Pac-man could be using!?
thoughts?
cheers for your time!

p4pno1,

no need mate, we've all got you to laugh at.

Fair enough omt2009. What i am saying is none of it matters. Trying to draw conclusions in this way doesn't make sense and basing it on oscar giving mayweather probs is imo wrong. If so then mayweather smashes pac cos he handled marquez a whole lot easier than pac did. I really don't think outcomes of fights can be worked out like this. Oscar was a massive 16lb heavier than mayweather on fight night - basically coming into the ring at 163lb compared to mayweathers career highest weight of 148lb ish. No wander he gave floyd probs. Mayweather and pac will be nearly the same weight come fight night as mayweather is not really a big fully fledged ww.

just my opinion of what will happen dendy. I think Mayweather will struggle with Pac's style but you make some good points about Oscar fighting Mayweather at a higher weight.

Regarding the blood tests again, Pacquaio agreed to giving blood three times: before the press conference announcing the fight, thirty days before the fight and immediately after the fight. If he's taking steroids, they should be detected in any of these tests. Roach apparently even agreed to have his man take a blood test five days before the fight, but not closer than three days before the fight, because he said it takes Pacquiao three days to recover after blood is drawn. There is no problem but Mayweather is making one.

I think pacquiao should stand his ground. If Mayweathers camp cant give a more reasonable timeframe for Pacquiao to recover from the blood test then i think Pacquiao should abandon Mayweather jr. When you think about it Pacquiao is #1 P4P and WBO welterweight champ. what has floyd jr. got to put on the table. his 40-0? please! As long as Pacquiao is active in 2010. Floyd will always be #2. Anyway Arum is already looking at the Mosley-Berto winner. So while Floyd goes on to pick and fight a lesser opponent in England(if you know who i mean). Pacquiao can fight the real welterweights. Just keep doing your thing Manny. Dont succumb to Floyds mind games.As much as you want to beat Floyd in the ring. Just remember it is Floyd jr. that needs this more than you.

year of the bison - i dont think bens here so il show you what iv read

"Olympic style drug testing involves random sampling of the athlete's blood and urine prior to and after the fight. The USADA procedure includes both blood and urine sampling so that all banned substances, some of which do not show up in urine alone, are tested for thoroughly. "

cant help you with your other questions im afraid

I hope he does agree to be tested 5 days prior. Cos if he doesn't he is essentially not agreeing to being tested within 30 days of the fight. Growth hormone can be taken on day 1 and be down to acceptable levels by day 30 and after the fight. I personally would like both fighters to be tested at the beginning of camp then half way through and then just after the fight. Growth juice is taken at the beginning of camp and diminishes down to acceptable levels by fight time rendering tests around this time pretty useless.. Many athletes got away with it for years because the tests were not of a random nature and therefore can be prepared for. I am not saying pac is a cheat. Although his lack of power against some of the fighters coxy0001 listed in the lighter weights rings true. Also mayweather never started the rumours about the possible juicing as they began some time before and were started by another boxing promoter. It just seems a bit freakish that pac was able to use power to bully cotto when he couldn't do it with marquez etc..

don - you think after all this mosley wouldnt ask for a drugs test aswell? it would be foolish to think not, after all it was he who caught margarito and mosley would happily fight floyd. pacquiaos rep will take a battering if he doesnt agree to this, after all floyd has moral high ground and what can manny say? i dont want to take the test because im scared of needles, but hey check out my new tatoo? there is no way manny can come out of this and look good if he doesnt take the fight

At the end of the day It will be Nevada state antidoping commissiom that will have the say. If pacquiao doesn't stand his ground then this whole new drug testing can become precedent to more future carfuffles and would put a big question mark on boxing espesciallly for the last 40 years undermining the credibility of the great fighters that fought in the State of Nevada.

Baffled by Freddie Roach comments, if it's takes Manny 3-4 days to recover from blood test why would only agree to complete a test at the press conference weigh in? Surely he would benefit from the thirty days.
Can somebody help here please?

This is typical Arum. Fight's not off, but wouldn't be surprised if Arum kicks up enough of a fuss to delay it till May or the Autumn which would probably suit both parties better than March anyway.

cardover, i think the blood test Roach agreed to was before the press conference to announce the fight, not at the weigh in. Aswell as one straight after the fight which would show if Pacquiao was clean.

brokenbra, I doubt it's just games...Pacquaio wants to run for elections in May so won't put the fight back. It was now or ...not for a fair while at least. They'll just pick a new opponent.

I hear that Mayweather has stipulated that 5 litres of blood need to be drained from Pacquiao for the test...

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PERFECT ANALOGY: READ READ READ READ
Testing the blood after the fight is already PERFECT for detecting banned substances particularly steroid... So why Mayweather still insist on Blood test before the fight, here is the absolute reason,,, on giving blood before the fight weakens the fighter, Pacquiao relies on power and Mayweather relies on defense and speedy powerless punch to gain points... so both of them will be weaken but since Floyd do not rely too much on power, he will have the upperhand... NICE SILLY TACTIC!!!

It never ceases to amaze me what a circus boxing is.

When the fight was announced as a reality a few weeks ago I posted this on 606:

'I am expecting a war of words betweem Freddie and Floyd Sr. I think Freddie will mess with the Mayweather's heads and beat them in the trash talking stakes, what do you think?'

I think the drug testing debate has a lot to do with oneupmanship. I thought Roach won the trash talking competition with Floyd Sr in the run up to Hatton v Pacquiao. The Mayweathers want to make sure that Freddie doesn't win this psychological battle.

Given the opportunity Mayweather could keep the steroid issue at the forefront of publiciy the whole way through the build-up to the fight. I am guessing Roach wants to nip this in the bud now. I read it that Freddie is saying we don't need you Floyd, if you want to carry on like this look somewhere else for your next payday.

There is a lot of innuendo going around some of it libelous. Drug rumours can stay with an athlete for a long time even if they have never been caught.

Roach refusing the IOC testing procedure in favour of the Nevada State rules (with the addition of 3 blood test) is adding fuel to the fire. Freddie may feel he has to dig his heels in as the Mayweather's try to push him around but he needs to be careful that he does not encourage further rumours and speculation. He seems to be playing with fire.

See below an extract from the ESPN website about the drug testing procedues for the fight.


"Mayweather continues to demand Olympic-style testing, which is conducted by the United States Anti Doping Agency. Its protocol calls for random urine and blood testing throughout the training camps, fight week -- even the day of the fight -- and immediately after the fight. According to Leonard Ellerbe, a Mayweather adviser, that means something like three to five blood tests and 10 to 12 urine tests over an approximately 10-week period.

Mayweather would be subject to the same testing as Pacquiao.

The Nevada State Athletic Commission and other state commissions conduct only postfight urine tests and, in some cases, prefight urine tests."


Personally I think there is no physical reason why Manny cannot do blood tests. Looking at Manny's weight gain is interesting:

2008-03-15 129 lbs versus Juan Manuel Marquez

2008-12-06 142 lbs versus Oscar De La Hoya


Manny gained a lot of solid quality muscle in between the JMM and ODLH fights. Having personally trained with weights for 25 years my experience tells me that Manny's gain in pure muscle in the 9 months between the JMM and ODLH fights was substantial. Please note I mean a gain in muscle weight not just a gain in bodyweight. Manny carried very little body fat in both the JMM and ODLH fights. The additional weight has noticeably increased his power and durability.

An athlete at the the very top in any sport is questioned now but that does not mean they are doing anything to break the rules.

Drug tests are always random, in any sport. Manny should take the random tests unless he is trying to hide some thing.

This talk from Roach that it takes his fighter 3 to 4 days to recover after giving a sample of blood does not make sense. We are not talking about Manny becoming a blood donor (and getting free biscuits), it's only a small sample of blood. In any case it would also take mayweather 3 to 4 days to recover, unless they are saying pacquioa some kind of medical condition.

I don't know how you can say drug testing is adequate in boxing when these guys never caught Sugar Shane Mosley, and we have world champions raking in millions of pounds who have never faced a random blood test.

You are also misinforming the readers when you say "Pacquiao would not wish to jump through hoops of the American's making". You are making it sound like Mayweather is asking Manny to do something extra. Mayweather will be jumping through the same hoops so what's wrong with that?

To debate whether Pacquiao has used steroids or not (see 60 for a concerning argument against him) we need a physiologist / medical doctor to comment on his weight change over a period of time (BBC can you interview a few?). Keeping the weight down for the weigh in can be done by dehydration (not healthy) and this also needs to be considered in the argument. Of course this doesn't just apply to Manny but other boxers changing their fighting weight. For the Mayweather - Pacquiao fight, I think potential steroid use is less of a concern - since Pacquiao already has the weight to fight Mayweather. But yes there seems to be a valid issue (e.g. did Hollyfield need some assistance in moving up to the heavyweight scene...)
Lets' move on the debate BBC - we need some discussion from within the medical profession ....

I don't think everyone in this blog knows the real facts behind the OLYMPIC TEST proposal Mayweather's camp want to happen, maybe you all know but i'll say it anyway. Olympic testing requires the athlete to be tested randomly for uring and blood- but they are also required to give blood on 2 days before the fight. Which perhaps in Pacquiao's defence is not fair if the fact that he needs 3 to 4 days to recover is true. I mean Pacquiao is willing to give blood straight after the fight, 60 days before the fight and before the press conference (again correct me if I'm wrong). Freddie Roach is even said that he would be happy if Pacquiao gives blood a week before the fight.
I just feel that it is unfair that Pacquiao's reputation is being dragged down. Instead of people talking about the great things he has achieved they are talking about "Pacquiao might be a cheat" or "why is Pacquiao scared of a needle". Pacquiao has been tested many times and he has passed every single blood and urine test. Hopefully, the rumours about Pacquaio is not true because if it is a whole nation behind who looks up to him will be distraught.

Floyd has already avoided caliber fighters in the past like
1.Antonio Margarito
2.Shane Mosley
3.Paul Williams
4.Miguel Cotto

And now,Pacquiao.So it's not surprising.This drug testing is just an excuse.And remember Roger and Sr. got busted with cocaine.

Whats wrong with doing a blood test 1 full month before a fight which is a standard in most sports and furthermore random testing occurs? I dont see why Arum is so defensive about this, and why cant Manny who is going to be in the ring just come out and say i'll do the test as a true sportsman? Do they have somthing to hide....that we do viewing & paying public should not know? What manny should understand that if there is a scandal, it would definately be devastating for all he has achieved, he should just take a look at the Tiger Woods situation. Arum is only a promoter, and would go and promote someone else, so Manny should realise that he is the one who is going to loose, and i hope he understands that this could hurt his political ambitions if he doesnt clear this issue up very quickly.
For those saying that say boxing has its rules and Mayweather is trying to change it, isnt it for the good of the sport that there are no drug related scandals especially for a fight which is set to be one of the richest in history in monetary terms? Would you all want the fight to be tainted, surely i know i want a great boxing match with know scandals at the end. Arum is a big disgrace to make an issue out of this. Doing a blood test 1 month befor a fight is well enough time, surely blood taken will not be more than 10ml

I am no biologist, but these guys are walking a physical tight-rope in the lead up to a fight. To insist on them having to give blood at any given point would, i imagine, severely hamper a fighters preparations.

I Mayweather wanted to blur the image of both himself, his opponent and boxing he has done a good job. He should not have taken the fight !!!

tarantoes:

PBF asking for 5 litres of blood to be taken - are you sure? As the average guy has ~10 pints (5.6 litres) in there body, seems a bit harsh ;)

PERFECT ANALOGY: READ READ READ READ
Testing the blood after the fight is already PERFECT for detecting banned substances particularly steroid... So why Mayweather still insist on Blood test before the fight, here is the absolute reason,,, on giving blood before the fight weakens the fighter, Pacquiao relies on power and Mayweather relies on defense and speedy powerless punch to gain points... so both of them will be weaken but since Floyd do not rely too much on power, he will have the upperhand... NICE SILLY TACTIC!!!

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You are so so so utterly wrong. Pacquiao won't take steroids right before the fight, or take anything for that matter. If he's blood boosting/hormone boosting etc he'll (hypothetically) be taking it during camp, when there's no drug testing done. By the time the fight comes round anything he's on would be out of his system. The idea isn't to make him superhuman for the fight, it's about helping him train stupidly hard and push his body beyond the limit with help.

If giving blood weakens a fighter then what on earth happens to the Tour de France guys? Giving 30ml or so of blood has absolutely no effect, for you to suggest so is laughable and just plain wrong. Stop making things up.

Usain Bolt complained he was being tested left right and centre and the Olympics (and before), yet didn't he go on to record silly times? Oh, and didn't he agree to every single test and was found clean? Manny is actually point blank refusing to take the tests - yes it's not a regulation of the Nevada State Commission, but by him saying no he's kicking up a massive storm. Read on another boxing site that when they ran a poll after this story broke, 30% of people believed he was on something.

It's Manny who's doing harm to this great sport, not Mayweather Jr.

Rumours about doping has followed Pacquiao since he fought Marquez,fact!
The poeple on this blog are so Anti-Mayweather that all they want is a Mayweather defeat regardless of how it is achieved!!

This is no more about boxing, it is about the downfall of Floyd Mayweather!!! What has the world become???

B4 the Delahoya fight these questions were raised & it was brushed aside by the journalists in particular who said that Delahoya's size gives him too much advantage anyway.
This issue was raised again in the 2nd Marquez fight & again brushed aside.

Have we not learnt from the antics of Ben Johnson,Marion Jones, etc etc that human beings can achieve incredible feats by doping??

To be tested 30 days b4 a fight makes you weak??? After that comment and being a sports man myself i now have serious distrust of Paquiao & his team.
Doping is now so sophisticated that unless the athlete is tested almost weekly you will never detect the presence of the new types of drugs in the system BUT 30days b4 a fight?? Give me a break!

The hatred of PBF by the folks on this blog should not, i repeat should not deter us from doing the right thing ,afterall BOTH BOXERS WILL BE TESTED, WHAT IS THE FUSS??!!


The US Anti-doping agency MUST follow through with this testing if it is to retain any credibility.

I see fault on both sides here:

1) Mayweather has no right to dictate the rules overseen by whichever commission is responsible for this fight. The tests are already in place and the rules that govern them are pretty clear.

2) Since when does it take ANYONE 3-4 days to recover from a blood test?! Utter tosh from trainer Freddie Roach.

With so much money at stake, no way this fight won't happen.

There are two issues that are confused here .

1. Boxing bouts have been held under a fixed set of rules for ages. To debate wether or not these rules cover the current requirements is good but should be done in the proper arena. In this case, if Mayweather feels the current rules need to be brought up to date, he should put the issue to the Nevada Boxing Committee, not to Pacquino.

This should be the argument that Roach should be making. You cannot have a party to the fight abitrarily change the rules of the fight. IF this was allowed I'd suggest Pacquino would be allowed to use his feet too (he's got a background in kick-boxing).

2. Under the current rules Pacquino has been tested and found to be clean. Therefore any suggestion as to the contrary needs to be proven by the stating party, if not it's libel. There is no onus on Pacquino to prove anything besides the proof he has proved to the controlling party (Nevada Boxing Committee), there is onus on the Mayweather camp to provide evidence. This is the argument Roach also needs to make, if he feels to threathened, he can simply start legal proceedings.

In short, Pacquino and Mayweather both answer to the rules of the Nevada Boxing Committee. Maybe they are due for revision (a most reasonable argument). IF so, then after this decision has been taken by the Nevada Boxing Committe, all bouts to be fought whenceforth will fall under these rules. Bouts already agreed under the old rules remain under the old rules.

Of course you're not gonna give blood within 30 days of a fight - that's just nuts and asking for trouble. Mayweather is a coward and has found a nice convenient excuse to back out this fight.
As for "the future of boxing" you need look no further than Haye. That guy has the guts to take on all comers regardless of whether it looks on paper like they're gonna get murdered. That's how you generate interest in boxing - by staging fights that people of all backgrounds, whether they're interested in boxing or not, sit up and take notice of.

I actually think Mayweather and or camp have been incredibly clever in this call.

If there are any suspicions regarding Pacmans use of performance enhancers then calling a drug test 30 days out is brilliant.

Steroids have to be "cycled" out of the system to avoid detection and 30 days from a fight would mean he would have to stop using at least 30 days before that, the effects of the steroids would then start to wear off in the 60 days leading up to the fight almost nullifying the effects.

Also, tactically it's brilliant because if Pacman refuses the test then suspicions fall on Pacman either way. I would have to agree that to refuse would be stupid because if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem.

This is a publicity stunt. The fight will go ahead.

As many people have already mentioned it seems Floyd is at the mind games again, with an increasing set of demands emerging seemingly as the fight gets closer to being officially confirmed.

Floyd now seems a different character from the man who only a few weeks ago was boasting on sky sports news about how easy this fight would be. Essentially pac is not refusing to be tested but is refusing to adhere to demands from Floyd which i am not sure he is in a position to make and i think its wrong that the integrity of any sports person is questioned without any substantial evidence and is based on purely wild accusations (e.g Floyd Sr, Paulie Malinaggi etc).

As for looking into pacs past achievements i think it is invalid for us observers to make comments on gains in muscle mass etc when we really don't have access to this type of information. I see a fighter who has always had a lean athletic muscular physique and who has always been known as a power puncher with knockdown capability. If you look at Pacs superfeather weight days he weighed significantly more on fight night vs weigh in limit (130lbs) suggesting to me that he had to work hard to make the weight limit and now that he is operating at perhaps a more natural "walking around" weight he is able to utilise that punching power to greater effect?

Still think this fight will happen, remember the recent hysteria with Hatton vs Pac and for me if the fight does happen think Pac wins by decision and would be a fitting end to his career.

People who think Mayweather is using this as an excuse not to fight him are crazy!!! He would not want to miss out on this much money win or lose!!!
I personally have been subjected to a urine test and passed even though I had made recreational use of two controlled substances, A & B Class!!!
Guess what, I passed to my pleasant surprise, though I would not take a risk ;like that again, I do believe Mayweather's doubts are genuine.
Where as Manny obviously gets immunised b4 travelling to certain places, but I bet he dont complain as much then. He beats himself with inch thick wooden rods and gets hit in the face for a living. And the smallest amount of blodd 6 weeks b4 the fight wouldn't have such a bad affeect that he needs to cancel.
It all very suspicious, even thigh they say they are prepared to do the test b4 training camp and after the fight, any damage to Mayweather#'s legacy would have bneen done by then.
BE A MAN MANNY!!!

WHEN i PASSED i ONLY USED THE DRUGS 4 DAYS B4 MY TEST!!!

My friend who does sport science, a subject which appears much harder than it sounds, tells me that alot of sportsman especially athletes and cyclists are on some sort of undetectable performance enhancing drug.

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Your kidding?!

Well thank the heavens your mate who does "sports science", a subject at degree level which offers about 1% of the knowledge required to make such a claim (I know, I did a Msc in it) has all the facts. I'm sure his degree at whichever Uni he goes to offers that gem of information to all it's students so they can write it in their test papers and in a few years we are going to have an army of PED Experts who are going to blow the lid on secret PED's (so secret that even a uni undergrad knows about it).

Is he a doctor of pharmacological sciences as well? A bio-chemist maybe?

He sounds like he is in the know, get him to WADA right away!

All part of the strategy to sell the fight! Both camps are just cranking up the hype. This fight will go ahead, no doubt.

this article is so one-sided its hilarious, complete anti-Mayweather propaganda. While after giving 2 teaspoons of blood Pacman will be "weak", somehow Mayweather is cool with it. Mayweather agreed to everything from Pacman's corner 50-50 split, 8 oz gloves and 10mn/pound penalty. Somehow Pacman can't agree to USDA testing and wants to set his own test dates (is that a joke??). Also Manny is scared of needles but has a ton of tattoos?? something is very fishy but I am sure haters will blame Floyd for ducking.

Very clever by Floyd in my opinion, pressure is very much on Manny & Roach to either agree or show why they wont.

Its ok to say the Nevada State Athletic Commission run their own rules but Floyd isnt asking for anything that most top athlethes arent subjected to.

Also some other post mentioned that Roach got the upper hand in the pre fight battles prior to the De La Hoya fight, I remeber the 24/7 & Roger was just laughing all the time. I dont think it gets to Floyd at all.

He will beat Manny in my opinion anyway but has scored the first blow in the mind game battle.

This has sparked a debate about Manny's achievements & now he will be on the defensive.

71. At 09:38am on 24 Dec 2009, camilio100feugos wrote:

IF so, then after this decision has been taken by the Nevada Boxing Committe, all bouts to be fought whenceforth will fall under these rules. Bouts already agreed under the old rules remain under the old rules.
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So as a boxing fan, you do not care if the victor is a doping artist & a cheat?
Do you not care if the man considered the best Pound 4 Pound fighter in the world is actually a drug cheat?? What kind of fan are you??
Usain Bolt was blood & urine tested 2 days b4 the 100meters quater finals in China, yet he went and destroyed the World record. He said he didn't like being tested during competition but he understands that in order to erase any doubt (especially after some Jamaican sprinters in his camp had just failed a drugs test)due to the extraordinary times he was setting he would do anything to keep the sport clean, he agreed to the tests.
Pacquiao MUST take this test to prove that his meteoric & extraordinary rise is not drug assisted.
Nobody in boxing history has done what Manny has done & within such a very short period, so he needs to show the world that the rumours about doping that has surrounded him for so long is false; anything short of that means his meteoric rise was indeed artificial and am no Mayweather spokesman, just a pure boxing fan & a human being tired of the evil that doping has done to sports in general.
PACQUIAO, TAKE THE TEST!! £50Million & the CREDIBILITY of boxing DEMANDS you take the test!!

You spend time typing comments on this blog only for them to be modded and removed. My last post was removed and the content was no different to any of my posts that still stand. It is the first and last time I venture onto a bbc blog. East side boxing is a much better informative place to be. The mods have sense instead of all this censorship they actually live in the real world. Ben Dirs started this blog about what is a serious subject. A subject that obviously cannot be talked about on the bbc site in its entirety. So I ask why bother? If the subject is too hot for the boring old bbc then I suggest the Author of the article doesn't report such issues and then expect us to waste our time discussing it. For the record Ben I completely disagree that pacs team are only digging their heels in. Anybody who really knows boxing knows that their has been a question mark over pac for some time. Mayweather just wants it answered and understands that the testing procedures at the moment are easy to work around... bye

At 10:06am on 24 Dec 2009, sportszombie wrote:
this article is so one-sided its hilarious, complete anti-Mayweather propaganda. While after giving 2 teaspoons of blood Pacman will be "weak", somehow Mayweather is cool with it. Mayweather agreed to everything from Pacman's corner 50-50 split, 8 oz gloves and 10mn/pound penalty. Somehow Pacman can't agree to USDA testing and wants to set his own test dates (is that a joke??). Also Manny is scared of needles but has a ton of tattoos?? something is very fishy but I am sure haters will blame Floyd for ducking.

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I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS COMMENT, PEOPLE ARE SUCH HATERS!!!
AND IN ANY CASE BOTH FIGHTERS ARE TOP LEVEL FIGHTERS, NEITHER IS SCARED TO FIGHT, ESPECIALLY THE WHO NEVER GETS HIT!!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

lol. The kind of censorship that has gone on throughout this blog is a joke. Like i said why bother. Especially when something slightly contentious is to be discussed.. I too thinkthe blog is biased and the author ill informed in regards to boxing and the subject of doping..

Hagler-Leonard was the best BOXING match ever & Hagler won! Only the judges and the Yanks did not agree with me. The best FIGHT ever was the Thriller in Manilla-God bless Ali.

gatti vs ward one was a classic and is my choice for fight of the decade

Missed the statement by oscar. Finally someone who actually understands the concept of testing and what can and can't be done. Basically saying what I have been saying but obviously more informed than me. Basically the only way to collar anyone on growth juice is to randomly take blood. Urine is no good. Lets see if oscars comments get censored bbc style..

Oh Dear...Trying to get out of the fight me thinks. For all Floyd's talent and ringskill to be reduced to this..it's quite sad. Urine tests is all that is needed and they can be taken daily for 30 days before the fight..Blood tests indeed! How dare he say that? Manny is, has and always will be a clean fighter.Floyd, my son..You are going to be remember badly if this doesn't come off. And it would be interesting to know what the WBC,WBA and IBF think of all this....Governing bodies make the rules..not Mayweather. When Boxers start making demands like this it usually means one thing..They scared!!! I have written before that Mayweather has never faced anybody like Manny..and yes..ditto. But Manny ain't trying to duck this one...and it would be handy if I could get a print out of what Floyd's dear old dad Roger thinks...as i have run out of firelighters on this chilly Xmas eve!

Tony you haven't a clue mate. I see that p4pno1 oscar quote has been removed. See ya..

Mayweather is obviously scared stiff, and wants to do anything he can to upset Pacquiao's training regime. Boxing has drug testing already, so thereis no need for Pacquiao to do any more tests than already required. I think Pacquiao's speed is worrying Mayweather, as all the talk about having a higher weight fight, trying to get blood doping tests done etc... all lead to the same thing, slowing Pacquiao down.

Man up Mayweather!!

Having read your comments Ben it sounds to me and alot of other people that your just upset and bitter that you may miss out on the chance of a free holiday out to Vegas at the tax payers expense in March.

Do you not think the comment "As if the sport's reputation, already lower than a snake's spit bucket, could fall any further" is a tad too far as there have been some great fights over the last few years or are you really that upset??? Blackpool is also nice in March you know....

people are so stupid, its a simple drugs test

Allow me to just say that boxing is now a joke. MMA has overtaken boxing as the premier fighting sport in the world. It's a shame the BBC doesn't give MMA the mainstream coverage it deserves. In MMA the best fight the best 99% of the time. None of this behind the scenes josling.

I was looking forward to this fight but once again petty politics has become the issue.

When will you give MMA a chance BBC?

Magic8BaLL: Well done pal, the only one to twig onto the bigger picture here!

Albeit a great debate, u're missing the one thing that hasn't been mentioned. THE PUBLICITY!! that this whole chapter has caused. How many more people will watch this now?? It now makes for an even bigger fight, which will go ahead and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Mayweather is the modern day Ali - skulldugery, showmanship, guile, craftyness and manipulation are amongst PBF's most used attributes out of the ring.

He's in a win win, raised question marks over the opponents valididty as the best P4P.

Generated more hype.

Raised hiz own profile buy being the one who has adehered to all the rules (although he's started to make up hiz own). The guys clever and buy looking at the amount of comments on this blog and forums across the world, he's doing a gud job of scooping up the neutral fans and having them firmly is hiz corner.

As for Pacman, he's messed up a bit, but he'll let mayweather have this one and conceed by agreeing to the tests. He's got too much to lose now, reputation (he won't risk this with hiz election coming up).

The mans a living legend, and which ever way you look at the build up, its just build up!! When did the biggest fights in history go smoothly and how many have had some kind of scandal leading up to them?

I rest my case!

Pacman wins by UD!

Why does noone see the obvious here? Arum has previously had major fallouts with Mayweather (being accused of underpayment by Mayweather), and has a corrupt background (having admitted bribing the IBF President and been fined by the Nevada Commission). This is not Mayweather or anyone other than Arum making trouble. And its all for the publicity and benefit of Arum.

I've read above that a few people have stated that mayweather has asked for nearly 5 litres of manny's blood?!?! do you know how stupid that sounds? When there's only 5 - 6 litres of blood in the body?! All hes asking is for a tiny little bit of blood 30 days before the fight? same goes for mayweather..big deal. I agree totally what dendy, p4pno1 and sportzombie has written. This blog is very one-sided in favour for manny, a joke. When will a blog ever be written thats 50/50 for both fighters?! Everyone seems to hate mayweather, but seem to want to watch him fight? i dont understand..surely if you dont like him, you wont want to watch him? just because hes not the boring boxer that says nothing, he goes out says a few contraversial statements and everyone goes mad. Hes playing simple games that 90% of the people fall for. Merry Christmas

Very one-sided article indeed.
The hatred towards Mayweather is unbelievable.
Would it be the other way around the author and most people commenting would have field day with Mayweather. There probably would be demands in here for him to be sanctioned and who knows what else.

Mayweather isn't demanding anything he merely suggesting!
Look at it from his POV, the rumors about Pac and doping are there not because of Mayweather but because of SEVERAL people.
Mayweather probably really is concerned about Pac and actually rates him and thinks he could be beaten at last.
And if thats the case he wants to rest assured he was beaten fair and square!

And Roach claiming that it takes his man 3-4 days to recover from a simple blood test is the most pathetic excuse I heard of anything in a long long time.
He acts like he's being asked to conduct a blood transfusion or something!

Whats next Mayweather delaying the fight because he got a paper cut and lost a couple drops of blood?