'Pretty Boy' Johnson and his All Blacks double-life

A true legend of the game...one of the best locks of all time.
I just hope his mediocre days as a coach wont taint his legacy as a player.

Fantastic blog, Tom.

Great stuff, met Meads out with the 2005 Lions tour, he always said ''we taught him how to play''...great player, fantastic captain and super guy according to people he's played with..As a coach? Jury still out maybe..

Good blog. Luckily for England that Johnson's then girlfriend (now wife) wanted to travel, or he would have probably played for the All Blacks (after his under 19 career as an All Black).

Fantastic player!
Okay manager so far, he has shown in fits and starts he could be just as good as a manager as he was a player.

Really looking forward to all the games this weekend.

COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fascinating blog, I never knew any of that.

Great blog. Johnson was certainly the best English lock of many generations. I can't recall ever seeing him lose a lineout thrown to him, or lose the ball in contact. He always called the lineout to himself when the team were under pressure. He was immense as a player and leader, when his example was exemplary.

Not sure that his current charges are in the same class as he was as a player, and whatever his strengths or weaknesses as a coach, he will have done everything he can to be the best coach so that the team are the best they can be.

Colossus of a man, whose character matches his physique.

Scoch ... you never knew he was a player?

Was it Johnson's plan to have the England shirts coloured black? Do you reckon he really still wants to be a new Zealander and perhaps an All Black again?
I shall be watching with inetrest to see if the red rose becomes a silver fern!

Great blog Tom.

I'm more of a football fan but, Martin Johnson is the greatest England captain ever, in any sport, bar none.

"... hammering away at the rough edges until they were far, far rougher."

Pure genius. Made me laugh out loud.

I know the Tihoi ground well as I worked in Tihoi many years ago. Fearsome rugby team :-)

I suppose the key unanswered question is...had MJ stayed in New Zealand and become an All Black, would they have won the World Cup before now?

I've always admired Martin Johnson, though more as a player than as a coach. As the media and pundits have knifed every other possible England Coach over the past decade it's hard to know what else can be done so we are stuck with him for better or for worse. He doesn't strike you as a great intellectualizer of the game but I imagine that he still has a pretty good rugby brain stuck on those shoulders.

To me, the best bit is that he's no PR smoothie and whilst he has time to talk to knowledgeable journalists, he doesn't seem to have that much time for the lightweight hacks who pop up at difficult moments looking for "an angle"! I loved the moment during the 2003 RWC when some some "gentleman of the press" asked him "are you going to take them on up front?" Johnson waited a full 5 seconds, using that "look" before replying "yes...we intend to push!"

Excellent point, Anglophone. Although I could never understand why MJ was chosen... possibly to capture some of the aura of 2003 having sacked Clive Woodward.... but what a wonderful leader. McGeechan knew just what he was doing with The Lions. But as a coach I don't think that anyone is sure about him. If only Woodward had not been kicked out. The real problem seems to lie with RFU. Thy are supposed to administer the game in England and all we get are pathetic spats, resignations and the continuance of Rob Andrew. Follow the model of the ECB.

He had a good teacher in Colin "Pinetree" Meades an ALL Black legend

Makes sense now why England have so many New Zealanders playing for them now!!

ya Steggsy...I agree...he should never have been selected as team manager. He had no experience and you dont want someones learning ground to be at the expense of the national team. He should have paid his dues and managed a few club teams firstly before making the big transition to National team.

What a story. To think that Martin could have gone on to be capped for the All Blacks. You could make a film out of that! Its horrible to see the current players behaving so badly under his leadership.

The players know the score and there is no excuse for sub standard behaviour.

A Welsh man yes and Wales, England rivalry aside, it would be nice to see any Northern Hemisphere team do well but I don't think England are coming through that match with France.

True legend of the sport. As a player second to none. As a coach well he's led England to their first six nations in 8 years which is an achievement in itself. As for the world cup before the tournament he set out a semi final berth as the minimum level of success he wanted to achieve and so it remains.

A great player that knows what it takes to win a world cup on the field I hope the team do's him proud this weekend

Tom, that's an absolutely brilliant story, written quite beautifully. Never knew Johnson's New Zealands ties, just shows the lengths some sportsmen have to go to make it to big-time.

Brilliant stuff.

'Pretty boy' - very good. Perhaps they should have called him shorty.

"instructing in the forward's dark arts like some second-row Severus Snape"
Absolutely brilliant!!

Great blog!

I think if anything what this exposes is the need for a harsh rugby education. Too many 'academies' tell young players there the next big thing and they believe it. Coziness does not make great rugby players.
A heartening story of how great rugby players are forged on the anvil of cold muddy pitches and bleak changing rooms.

As an aside I was interested to see that Tom Wood also chose to fly south. Perhaps a rugby 'Gap Year' should be considered a more useful development tool by the RFU than endless trivial age group matches.

Having read Martin Johnson's autobiography and several other books about him, he was always going to come home to Leicester. His shoulder injury was nothing to do with his return, as he continued to play as soon as he got back!! 12 months later he got it sorted. He has yet to be proved as a great coach, but he knows how to win a World Cup better than most and especially knows how to beat the French!! He knows more about International Rugby than anyone commenting on this blog (including the author) and don't forget it took Clive Woodward years to mould a World Cup winning team, so GIVE HIM A BREAK !!!!

Absolutely...I agree with myself! If the RFU and the media hadn't indulged in this witless mindset that England should win everything by 30 points at a canter then we wouldn't be in the position of wondering why the last man standing is a thoroughly decent man and great player, but a questionable coach...which is not the same as saying that he won't develop into a great coach!

That being said, I stand full-square behind him now and I wish that others would too. This endless obsession with the "man who can wave a magic wand" and make England invincible is the world of nincompoops in Barbour jackets and members of the press who have their own duplicitous ends.

So far, since the modern coach has emerged we have had

Geoff Cook - turned England into winning force. Sacked for "not winning the right way" (it goes way back you see!)
Jack Rowell - good coach but sacked for being "too amateur...gentleman rather than player who fancied his old side Bath too much!)
Sir Clive - slow start but brought together the world cup winning mentality - sacked by RFU Blazeratti for losing some games when his best players had retired and being a bit too "pushy"
Andy Robinson - good coach! Did his best with limited resources (as he continues to). Knifed by media for not "winning every game by 30 points"
Brian Ashton - terribly nice old chap who did his best with limited resources given the state of the player pool. Sacked under media pressure for a white knight, despite reaching world cup final. He has a right to be bitter!

The White Knight, the media's choice, is with us now and, unsurprisingly, England still don't win every game by 30 points at a canter. The same folk who agitated and knifed to get him the job are after his head now and, if England lose tomorrow, they may well get it. Let's hope not!

Martin Johnson is where we have ended up after two decades of sniping and bloodletting. Just let him get on with it because he's already Plan F and I don't know who the main candidate for Plan G would be?

Anglophone (no 27), couldn't agree more with what you said, but Clive Woodward left the England Job, as he acheived what he wanted to and didn't have the fire in his belly to continue anymore, he wasn't sacked. Which ironically is why the English team have struggled to find direction since.

I dont think he has stood out as a coach, but as most people seem to be inferring, I dont think we blame HIM for not being a top drawer coach.

He was hired with no experience, straight into the Engalnd job, actually just thinking about it now it sounds pretty mental, imagine Alan Shearer being england coach 3 years after retiring....

I think it says a lot about the man that he has done as well as he has so far, in a very difficult job. I do think that part of the rationale was that he was first of all keen for the job, and I think those up high in the boardroom selected him for "Legend Inspiration" factor as much as anything else.

He is conservative in his approach, but I am not toooo dissatisfied with him thus far, I think if we make it to the semi finals in a Six Nations winning year, then we shouldnt be too critical?

Either way, as is unanimously agreed, he is quite a legend.

Excellent tale, thank you.

Good blog as ever Tom.
When assessing Johnson’s credentials as Head Coach I would make the following observations.
I remember watching the 2007 World Cup and Johnson’s insight into the games was second to none. Many times I was sitting there and he would be able to sum up perfectly the game I was watching in a couple of sentences and make more sense than everyone else put together.
There seems to be a common conception that Clive Woodward = Great Coach, Martin Johnson = Poor Coach. I would not underestimate the influence that Woodward had in making the overall England set up more professional. However it should be remembered that England were knocked out in the ¼ Final in 1999. In 2003 Woodward was coach of one of the all time great teams. If you look at that team it a number of truly great players, Johnson, Hill, Dallaglio Wilkinson, Robinson, one of the best front rows ever assembled in Woodman, Thompson & Vickery (before injuries) and then a number of very fine experienced players, Back, Dawson, Greenwood. It is always easier to be a great coach when you have the best players.
Johnson is not blessed with such a stellar set of players. It would be hard to make a case for any of the current players over any of the players in that 2003 team. In addition to that England at the moment simply don’t have an international quality out and out 7 or 12 available. It’s not that Johnson isn’t picking them it’s that there are none currently around in English rugby. We are particularly hamstrung by the absence of a true 7. The most noticeable aspect of this year’s World Cup is pre-eminence of the openside – Roussou, Warburton, Pocock, O Brien.
I do not agree with everything Johnson as done but I do believe he should carry on after the World Cup regardless of the result on Saturday.

ALex Cricket. You hit the nail on the head. Academies have their place but there is nothing like the "mud and cold" to get a perspective of this game and what it means to people. The gap year idea you propose would benefit UK player sin almost all sports.

28 Forestcuba

You can never really tell can you, but the impression that I got was that SCW was more than a bit miffed that the RFU hadn't made any plans for maintaining England's momentum post-2003, save perhaps for the ringing of cash tills as the exhausted senior player cadre were ground into the dust in money-spinning "test matches".

He asked for more senior squad time, that the clubs resisted, and the RFU, anxious not to derail the gravy train, didn't back him. It was one of those semantic differences between "resigning" and "being resigned!"

It's noticeable that he has resisted attempts to bring him back. Possibly because it might tarnish his own legend, or possibly because he understands that squaring the circle between the RFU and the public/pundits expectations simply isn't possible. He wouldn't want to be "resigned" again I suspect!

#12 Nayim, So so so so so right. Tom you've nailed it again, great blog.

Welsh fan here in peace! Johnno isn't in charge of a finishing school, he's in charge of a rugby team, his first responsibility is to results on the pitch. He's won the 6 nations, he's about to grind out a horrifically ugly game against France, after which he's probably going to grind out a horrifically ugly win against us or ireland to reach the final.

What a terrible coach??? No he's a winner, and he doesn't give a monkeys whether you like the way it's done.

Anglophone: NIce analysis of the core problem at the RFU. They look now like the ECB "gin and tonic" crowd that Ian Botham complained about in his days.

I would add that while Woodward may get up some people's noses, without him the RWC would not have come North. Don't forget he had experience of the Antipodean system and brought the lessons back. Without him we would have had more yeoman effort but not actually have understood the intangibles. His role was as much CEO as coach and he got knifed by people who thought he was getting too big for his boots.

I will disagree with you on AR though. He was a decent position coach under an effective team manager, but is grossly out of his depth now. His two international gigs make ugly reading and both his teams lost and continue to lose in frustrating fashion, employing one trick pony game plans. Talent pool notwithstanding the guy just hasn't got it.

I do believe whatever happens this world cup MJ needs to start again with this team, and get some of the young new players such as Farrel,Barrit,Sharples, Ben Nutley, Callum Clark to name but a few and get them playing test rugby as soon as possible if they fail they fail and another one takes up the mantle, its tough but it works.

Welshfan here and I also come in peace, but if he's got in wrong on Flood and I strongly suspect he has then he'll have to go for that alone. Brought an England shoo in firmly back into the balance for me...

Anglophone:

"save perhaps for the ringing of cash tills as the exhausted senior player cadre were ground into the dust in money-spinning "test matches".

I remember well the period where we played an absurd series in NZ and Australia. When the lads should have been recuperating and so on we went on a meaningless and ultimately damaging tour. Instead of leaving the All Blacks and Wallabies seething and stewing in their own juice for a year, we let them have another go at us and we have heard the "See! Told you so! You were just lucky!" comments from almost all corners ever since.

As a Welshman got to take my hat of to Johnno. Absolute hero of the game and the type of player you would always rather on your team than against you. Think he will eventually prove his pedigree as a manager with a similar, uncompromising approach to Warren Gatland.

If Wales go out I 'll definitely support his team but wish his players would take a leaf out of his book when it comes to attitude and commitment as they look like a bunch of teenage girls from the outside at the moment. Good luck tomorrow though - England v Wales semi would be amazing!

Steggsy - Woodward wasn't sacked, he resigned.

It's not just the going abroad bit that is of significance, (although it obviously is). Also important is the jump from aged group rugby to senior rugby.

At 19 Johnson was obviously already big, but having only largely played aged group rugby he had not competed regularly against grown men. At that stage, (and even still now), there are not many 19 year old forwards who are thrown into the starting XV at senior clubs in England, (never mind about starting every week).

I had a similar choice, (at a similar time), when asked to play for Saracens U21's while playing for the 1st team for a local junior club. The general concensus of those that I asked, was that although I might have better opportunity for future development at a club like Saracens, as an 18/19/20 year old I was going to be playing a higher standard of rugby at my junior clubs 1st XV than I was playing with similar aged players for Saracens U21's.

I was playing against grown men and it is that sort of physical development that you just don't don't get in aged group rugby.

Looking back now, I do laugh a little because I obviously never made it to the big-time and the player that Saracens wanted me to replace, (because they thought him particularly poor defensively), was none other than Darren O'Leary, (who was soon shipped off to start a glorious career at Quins).

Maybe that just indicates that there is more than one route to the top.

I think rugby in england is structured towards the clubs which means MJ just does not have the time and influence with the players that other nations who have the players contracted to the union have.this gives us a fantastic Premiership but impacts on England as a team which with the player base and money available we should be a more dare i say it attractive side.
I think that might be 1 of the reasons why CW left?

Interesting blog Tom, much improved writing. Sorry to hear about the BBC cuts.

Agreed if England lose to this dreadful French side...people will look at the selection at 10,12 and I think that could be the end of Johnsons mediocre career as a manager.

I'm all for starting a petition to keep Tom Fordyce at the Beeb. I can think of another "writer" of these blogs who could do with seeking opportunities elsewhere though! Possibly at S4C or RTE.

Great blog though...different league!

@31 O'Brien's no openside. He played at 6 when Ferris was injured and Wallace was fit. I'd also say that the players you mentioned that're legends of the England 2003 team...they weren't legends before that tournament. Neither was Clive Woodward for that matter. It was at that tournament that they wrote their own legendary status into existence.

As an Ireland fan, I'm hoping youse lot don't manage it this time. But if youse do win, I'm pretty sure the likes of Manu Tuilagi, Chris Ashton, Ben Foden and my favourite England player, Tom Croft, will probably end up being spoken of in the same breath as Greenwood, Wilkinson, Vickery, Johnson and the rest. Well, not Johnson, if he wins the RWC as a player and a manager I think he'll probably be in a field all of his own!

Good players dont necessarily make great coaches and vice versa.
Why not leave MJ alone. He has plenty to deal with just handling off the field antics. I think that there are parts of the media that like him to flare up on live tv. Give the guy a break. He was a great player and needs time now to establish himself as a coach in his early forties. He does not have the team of 2003, so put that aside too. Go for it MJ.

if they called him pretty boy I hate to think how ugly the others were..... great player and captain lets hope he can continue in that way as manager....

Great Tom, nothing new but very well written.

Martin Johnson is a colossus of a man, as a player, captain and coach. He is (very successfully) building a young, talented and committed team that is competing in the current world cup and will be ready for anything in another 4 years.

Swing low, come on England!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Martin Johnson's a fantastic coach. All of the senior players seem sincere in their praise of him and his methods, and more importantly, they've been successful! Under his guidance, England've beaten Tri-Nations opposition away and they're 6N champions, what more do you want?

It's as if he'll never be good enough until they win the RWC, which is nonsense. Only one team can win the RWC every four years. The All Blacks haven't won it since 1987; would anyone dare to suggest that they haven't been good enough? England fans're spoilt brats sometimes, if you'll forgive the generalisation.

@50 I see Croft in every game, he's got pace to burn, he runs great support lines, he's got an excellent offload game and he's the go-to guy at the lineout. I really came to appreciate him on the Lions' tour, where I think he pushed Jamie Roberts for man of the series. I was so gutted when Ferris got injured, but thanks to Croft I barely missed him!

Johnson and Hill had Lions pedigree, they didn't need to win the RWC to cement their place, they'd already done it in 1997. Vickery, Wilkinson and Dallaglio owe their status to winning that tournament though, at least in my mind.

I'll give you a theoretical example of what I'm chatting about. If Ireland don't win the RWC this year, BOD and POC will be remembered as legends. If they DO win (and I don't mean to mention it, hope I'm not jinxing anything!), so will Cian Healy, Donncha O'Callaghan, Jamie Heaslip, Stephen Ferris, Keith Earls, Ronan O'Gara etc. You see my point? The mere fact of winning the thing elevates players.

@50 Dunno what that was pulled for, what a disgrace!

Seanthenoisemaker

May the gods of rugby strike you down! ;-)

Good luck tomorrow!

@52 – I think we agree pretty much (though I would probably add Dallaglio’s name to the list of those not requiring to win a World Cup). Overall though the fact that England won the 2003 World Cup and this team probably won’t does not necessarily make Woodward an amazing coach & Johnson a poor coach.
Btw – you read my post – can you think of any earthly reason why it was removed?

33 Anglophone.

I think it was for a number of different reasons that he walked away, bureaucracy being one of them. I know that when Dallaglio decided to retire from England, the first time (to sort out his personal life!!), it coincided with Woodward leaving. In fact they both had a meeting saying.... I need to tell you something.... I'm retiring from England duty!!

Woodward was so focused on winning the World Cup, he didn't make any plans for what came after that and was a victim of his own success. Andy Robinson was always on for a hiding to nothing and has proved he just doesn't quite have what it takes to make a successful team and I can't see him making a success of Scotland, until they learn how to score tries !!!

I think we need to stick with Johnson, like we did with Woodward and with the depth of talent we have in this country, we will a supreme Rugby force leading into the next World Cup.

But just to clarify, Woodward left of his own volition, he wasn't sacked!

A great player, great coach and great man. He's proven himself in coaching by winning the 6 nations - the first time we have as a country in many years. If we can beat France tomorrow it'll be a successful world cup - as this years competition will prob belong to New Zealand

My favourite Martin Johnson response to a journalist, when asked what was going through his head, as a 7 man English scrum resisted the shove of an All Black 8 on the 5 metre line in the last few minutes of the game in Eden Park, a few months before before the 2003 World Cup was, my 1st, 2nd and 3rd vertebrae. They Probably were.

Lovely piece Tom, a wonderful story -- like many on here, was not aware of the back story but a great illustration of what rugby does to make the world a better place

@58 - Yeah that was a very appropriate comment from Johnno. The defence of the England line (especially with a man in the sin bin) was amazing. No penalties were conceded either. I still can't believe that we managed to hold out.

56 Forestcuba

Let's agree to agree on what we can agree on! Johnson must stay and be given decent support towards 2015! I think we can agree on that?

If only Phil McNulty could write one blog post like this..

@ 56 - re comments on Andy Robinson. I have to agree Robinson was on a hiding to nothing when he took over. Robinson is a good coach, but maybe not a good team manager. I think what he lacked in the England job was a Jo Maso type character as Team Manager/Technical director to help him. The RFU brought in Rob Andrew probably a year too late to help him out.

I think he's done a decent job with Scotland. But the whole lack of try scoring thing must do his head in. If Scotland do let him go and there is a post-world cup shake up in the England set up, then I hope Robinson maybe offered a post back in the England coaching fold.

All the people who are questioning MJ's ability to coach seem to have forgotten he is learning!

He took on the role with no previous experience as a coach! None! It's not overly surprising he has made a few questionable decisions.

Give him a break, I have faith he will develop into a great England manager.

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Tom:

Good blog. Interesting that you put a picture of Martin Johnson on the 1993 Lions tour. I went to Twickers and saw Johnson make his debut in January 1993. It was obvious even then that he was a test level player. He came in as a late replcement for Wade Dooley who was injured.

Then "genius" McGeechan picked the 1993 Lions squad and did not pick Johnson for the squad!! (He did not pick Jeff Probyn either, but that is another story). Of course he had room in his squad for Damian Cronin and Andy Reed, who were simply abject. Then Dooley had to go home for his father's funeral and because of an absurd procedure was not allowed back on the tour. Johnson was called out and promptly walked into the test team for the final 2 tests against the All Blacks.

An excellent blog, clearly explaining why Martin Johnson excelled as a player.

I wonder, has Martin Johnson not reached the same heights as a coach/manager as he did as a player because he still sees himself as 'one of the lads' and not a manager? Don't give the media any excuse to talk about activities off the field. It's all about perceptions and these lucky people are representing the country. Keep the discipline tight and enforced and the results on the pitch will follow.

Yes Mr Anglophone, we can definitely agree on Martin Johnson being the way forward !!

@63 I can't see Robinson leaving the Scottish set up for a few years, unless he is forced out and considering he has just recently signed a lengthy contract, I can't see that happening anytime soon. Besides we want Scotland to be useless and Andy Robinson is keeping all England Rugby fans happy in helping Scotland to stay the weakest of the Home Nations. I hope he stays there for another 10 years !!!! He is a good coach, but a National Manager he isn't. A bit like Brian Ashton really.

Let's see how Martin Johnson's boys fare this weekend. Here's my preview on that along with the other quarter clashes... https://samhopwood.blogspot.com/2011/10/world-cup-fight-at-close-quarters.html

@ 60 and 58,

That perfomance from England that day (and i think it was in wellington btw as NZ have not lost at Eden Prk since well before then) was one of the most remarkable defensive displays I have ever seen and JW goalkicking was superb in a swirling gale. That win gave them the confidence to go on and win the WC.

Sadly for england they do not have any great victories like thta one or long winning sequences to draw on this time around.

#34 - well said mate! I have been gobsmacked over the last couple of weeks of blogging about some people's attitude to Eng 'must win in an attractive way' and 'with a healthy margin' etc etc. You dont need a healthy margin to win a game (3 points 2003 RWC final anyone???), you need a single point to seal the deal. Big, healthy margins give us a sense of comfort, but I think I'd rather take the win before the margin and the style anyday.

RESULTS are what get respect and what gets teams remembered in the corridors of history...and as far as I can see, Johnno is getting the results fine...

#70 Doris...what are you talking about?! It might not be Fortress Twickenham at the moment, but check out the last 12 months of results....yes, there have been a couple of losses in there, but overall the hit rate for the last year has not been bad...

@68 - Ditto the comment about Brian Ashton. Another good coach, but not a national manager. Looking back its interesting that Woodward put together a great coaching team during his tenure, but the individual coaches didn't quite do the business as national managers in their own right. I also include Kiwi John Mitchell in that group. Who was an England assistant coach until 2001. And managed the All Blacks from 2002 until after the 2003 World cup.

@58, 60 & 70 - Everyone remembers the 2 scrums on the English goal line defended with 13 players and hail a magnificent defensive display on the night. Few people mention what happened next. England ran the ball pretty much from their own line (with 13 players remember) and nearly scored a try at the opposite end. It showed a team totally confident in each other’s own abilities. The following week we went to Australia and gave them a right old thumping (the score didn’t really reflect the gulf between the two teams). (Btw - Doris is right – game was in Wellington not Auckland).
Anyone dare for predictions for weekends games. For what it’s worth
France by 3 to 7
Ireland by 3 to 7
South Africa by 7 to 10
New Zealand by 10 to 15.
I hope I’m wrong with every prediction.

Seems like people are pretty harsh on Johnson's coaching. Perhaps I have to remind people that England actually did WIN the 2001 Six Nations....scoring the most tries and with a massive points difference....almost double that of second place Ireland. Ok, they lost to Ireland in the last game. But then so did a pretty good England team in 2001......

67 Renevincente

" Don't give the media any excuse to talk about activities off the field."

I don't think that England player's apparent travails are anything at all to do with Martin Johnson "wanting to be one of the boys!" They have absolutely everything to do with the kind of people who want to buy muck-raking tabloids or the curtain-twitchers who buy the Daily Mail (England player swears on pitch! No less!).

England are uniquely afflicted by these brain-dead publications and their search for anything, half-true or totally invented, around which they can weave yet another synthetic scandal!

Don't forget, these people were happy to crater England's chances of hosting the Football World Cup, at a loss of £3bn to the economy, so cr**ing all over our rugby teams chances is small beer!

Johnno is a playing legend.

I really hope that his legacy is not ruined by Rob Andrew giving him a job that he was not ready for.

If i remember rightly Julian White and Tom Wood have also played provincial rugby in New Zealand.

Very good piece, Tom.

As for all the posters doubting Johnson's credentials as a coach....history may prove you right, but it may not. He's a rookie - he's only been doing the job for 3 years. As others have pointed out here, Woodward took a while to bed in, and (forgive the excursion to the dark side) it took Ferguson donkey's years to win anything at ManU. I hope Johnson does enough in the next few weeks, and the next 4 years, to ensure he's still the boss in 2015. I'd rather judge him on that.

@73 Spot on about Mitchell, having said that being the New Zealand Manager must be the most pressurised job in Rugby. I'm not surprised he didn't last long, because they failed in the 2003 World Cup, even though he had a pretty good record apart from that. I'm amazed Henry has lasted this long.

Besides all that, if the sheep says we'll beat the French, who am I to argue!!?

The press are always gunning for the coach. In 1999, Woodward actually said "judge me by our performance in the World Cup." England were easily beaten by the All Blacks in the group game and then lost by 20 points in the 1/4 to South Africa.

The press was baying for blood but they stuck with Woodward and four years later they won the WCUP, hitting a purple patch where the beat everyone in 2002-03.

I know of least one young English prop who is going through the NZ rugby system at the moment and his game has improved vastly to what I suspect it would have done if he was developing here in the UK. (Mike Cron guidance amongst others has helped!) Having played for one of the top 4 NZ schools he is now playing NZ University rugby and has already representated NZ University U21's on tour to the US. Hope the RFU dont miss out on assessing him for the Red Rose in due course! The structure of developing rugby players in NZ and notably Canterbury is years ahead to what Ive experienced personally here in England. We could learn a lot from it for the future of the English game.

@46 JamesMatthew
Have you ever coached an national side? I doubt it. Have you played at any great representative level, again I doubt it. So what gives you the right to pass judgement on Johnson's managerial career as mediocre? First Six Nations title in ( I think someone above posted) 8 years. Seems not bad, World Cup Quarter final, topped their pool and all for someone with no managerial experience. Someone who, I seem to recall, said he was not ready for the job, but being the man he is he took on the task because his sport asked him to do his best for his country. In what way is any of that "mediocre"?
No idea where you are from or what your grievance is but you need to look at what mediocre means and I suggest it applies more accurately to someone else rather than the England Team Manager.

Good Luck to England and Wales tomorrow.

Excellent blog! Johnson will always be an English legend. Would he have been an All Blacks legend?

On another note, did I read it write that the best writer BBC Sports has is leaving? If not of his own accord, that's a disgrace when there are much worse writers who deserve that fate. (McNulty anyone?).

Great blog tom,

Martin Johnson was one of the best locks of all time. Every generation has a player that makes you stand up and take notice, MJ was one of them. It's no surprise really that he learned part of his trade in NZ, because there was something about Johnson that was different to the rest.

Great captain, leader, professional, Thank god he came home!

Great writing Tom - worthy of the battle bus days of legend.

I've probably got tunnel vision, but not only do I think that MJ was a great England captain (by far the best in my lifetime, and I'm over 50), but I also think that he's on his way to becoming a great coach; everybody forgets that the England team was a bloody shambles between 2004 and 2009 (incl: the 2007 RWC, where if it had not been for a player's revolt we would have left after the Australia game in humiliation); suddenly we are Six Nations champions again and in with a real shout at this RWC, and there is no reason why we cannot make the final and win it. That's down to MJ - the sight of him in the changing rooms at half-time against the Scots was what his appointment was all about. When Sean Fitzpatrick (no mug in these matters) said that he "looked like the captain", he knew exactly what he was saying. This could yet be another MJ RWC success.

@82 Gavin Bewick

Well said mate!

I hate it when people criticise MJ managerial career, these people are so fickle. He's only been managing for what, 4 years? How can one say there career is mediocre 4 years into it? As you rightly said first 6 nations title in ages, we have won our group, and even though we are not playing fantastic rugby at the moment, we are playing effective rugby, MJ is a winner, its in his blood, so if anyone will turn these players into winners its Johnson.
Worth mentioning that as many as 10 players are making there world cup debuts as well, give this side 4 years and we will be dangerous I'm sure!

Absolutely fantastic blog, really insightful.

Johnson is an absolute legend of the game, great player and world class captain. Although the jury is still out on his coaching abilities I think it's worth noting that he has led us to our first 6 nations title in 8 years and 4 out of 4 this world cup, maybe it's time to judge him after the world cup rather than judging coaches before they have even done their job like we do in football?

really interesting blog, thank you for insights like these. keep it coming

LOL - "Pretty Boy"!

Looks like the Maoris have a highly-tuned sense of irony...

I read this story in the Telegraph about a month ago. Good steal.

Apparently his nickname with his England team mates was "Ferringhi" after the race in Star Trek...can't think why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_%28Star_Trek%29

Fantastic blog Tom, what a fantastic player Martin was and a great Girtonian male you are.

We keep hearing negatives about England's coaching set-up, from writers and fans alike. I for one think that the England coaches have performed incredibly well with a team and talent pool that is distinctly lacking in talent.
I challenge anyone to name an England player good enough to make the Welsh or Irish team. Yet with a mixture of retreads and a couple of talented but unproven youngsters MJ and his staff manage to play those teams on equal terms and sometimes beat them.
Leaving out Argentina can anyone name an England player that would make the starting team on any of the other six quarter finalists?

The one thing I have observed over his career is that Johnson is a winner. He might not get it right first time round but who does, very few, but he is a winner and he will work it out!

Jimbo

It was in Wellington but what a night that was and I'm a Kiwi

Excellent blog Phil, I happened to be driving through "Pinetrees" town of Te Kuiti (some obscure place in the middle of nowhere) yesterday en route to New Plymouth and was fascinated with the fact that they advertise "meet and greet" opportunities to talk Rugby with the 75 year old legend in the Main Street......no wonder they have renamed the town to "Meadsville" and no wonder that he had such an influence on Martin Johnson's career. If he can win RWC 2011 he would surely also warrant "legend" status

Jimbo1942, Runningnumber8,

It was Wellington, and it was a 6 man scrum with Back and Dallaglio in the bin, great test match between two great teams.

Nice blog.

Pjholy

Yep you are correct. It was fantastic the other thing I remember is that Howletts try nearing the end. The pass that put the ball out to Howlett was so far forward it was a joke. Still I 'm one to moan about forward passes :)

Well said Gavin

James give it a rest please your WUMing everything is getting soooooooo tiresome

Great blog Tom as so many have said.

MJ for those over here who are in the "know" have always looked at MJ as the one that "got away". There is no doubt in my mind that he would have become an All Black legend had he stayed. But as someone else said my understanding was he was always going back to England.

He was a great player and great captain and is a top bloke. It always makes me laugh the stereotype banded about by the lets not support England mob that England rugby players are all toffs. I do not think that has been the case for 20 years for the most part. MJ is so anti-that stereotype it's not funny.

If fact in my experience and I have been involved in Rugby in England Scotland and Australia the last two countries have in fact be based around which School you have attended. And before all you Scots and Ozzies get on here bleating I said it was my experience not written in stone.

I think England would be crazy if they sack MJ whatever the outcome of today is. He may not be the most eloquent speaker in the world but when he speaks most sensible people listen.

Good luck England (go the Blacks) as for the Welsh and Irish it is a shame you meet in the QFs

but good luck to you both