Almost the Ashes

I think the USA are the worlds greatest swimming nation. I wish it were the Aussies.

Only the Aussies can say whether the Border-Gavaskar Trophy means more than the Ashes as they participate in and support both. The other two participants are bound to be biased.

Lets face it.
The commonwealth are the league cup of international sporting competitions.

England/Britain did not send leading competitors to Athletics, gymnastics and cycling.The bulk of australias medals have come from cycling and Gymnastics-apart from swimming.
English/British competitors have chosen to concentrate on other international competitions and this largely explains why Australia won have won so many medals.

all that one can deduce from these games in terms of Anlo-australian sporting rivalry is that Australia are still better at swimming than the British nations-though by a decreasing margin.

we should not forget that Australia's success in commonwealth games in 2006 was followed by their placing behind Britain in olympic games of 2008

I know its tongue in cheek, but this is a typical English article chock full of one-sided scenarios and veiled excuses! Of course the Australians are going to be down on their last performance, they were at home last time!

Face it, the BBC have been hyping up these mini-ashes in the team events for the last week and its time to eat some humble pie. In the 4 big team sports - M Hockey, W Hockey, Netball and Rugby - Australia are contesting the final, England are not.

Again such a negative, anti-English piece of nonsense. There is indeed a common theme amongst most of the BBC Sport bloggers! Their negativity about English performances and achievement. In addition to British sprinters, there are also a considerable number of athletes who have not attended the games, who would have been certain gold medalists. For a recent list of Anglo-Aussie duels, why not highlight the last olympic medal table which saw Britain finish 4th, ahead of Australia! Why not mention the last ashes series, infact Englands superb record in all forms of cricket in recent series, instead of trotting out claptrap like India v Australia being a better illustration of cricketing hierarchy. Do you really think the Aussies will see it this way, come the winter? I am a massive admirer of the Australian sporting mentality and excellence, but the truth is until they become even half decent at football, by far the biggest gloabal sport, the rest pales into insignificance. That's how the English see it anyway, because football is by far the biggest sport over here. Yes England slumped in the 2nd round at the last world cup, but at least we are regular quarter finalists and if it wasn't for penalties over the years, who knows! Try and be a bit more positive for a change! For instance, how about an article on English golf at the moment, with 4 or 5 players in the Worlds top 20, 2nd only to the USA! Im sick and tired of reading pessimistic, cynical blogs on the BBC, you miserable lot! Start trying to encourage and inspire our athletes and competitors, rather than constantly criticising!

Sorry, meant cyclists in the last piece, not sprinters.

"we should not forget that Australia's success in commonwealth games in 2006 was followed by their placing behind Britain in olympic games of 2008"

They placed behind BRITAIN, not England/Britain (and for the first time in 20 years). Cant have your cake and eat it too. English arrogance at its finest...

What a pathetic excuse, that 'England/Britain' didnt send their best athletes.

Australia are better at swimming yes, this is tempered in the Olympics by the rest of the world when there is real competition for them. They also seem to be better at the 'Ashes' events too.. Whats the excuse there?

"That's how the English see it anyway, because football is by far the biggest sport over here."

Summed up beautifully there... So because Australia are not a success in the English definition, their other performances, including high rankings in many many individual sports and a number of world cups across 6 or 7 team sports, pale into insignificance??

Ok then.

Besides, by your argument, until England win the football world cup, everything they have done is also insignificant. They seemed darn proud of their effort in the last Olympics - beating a country of a quarter the population for the first time in over 20 years....

2nd round/quarter finals/penalties/whatever... Well done, hang your hat on that one, while Australians will hang their hat on their victories in a much broader range of sports.

excuses excuses excuses. Hilarious! Myopic drivel, you would do News of the World Proud

what will the excuses be in 2012 when we kick your backside then as well?

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@chunkyduckling: It is not English arrogance but as we are competing as the UK in one competition and England in the other it is the only thing that we can compare - as few of us can be bothered to pick through the results and work out what commonwealth team they would be compeating for.

At the end of the day both the UK and Australia have good sporting history and both have many good competitors at the moment, so what is the point of getting worked up. I love it when we beat the Aussies as I get to take the mick out of my Australian Friends as we enjoy a pint, but when we lose I get the mick taken out of me but we still enjoy a pint, this is why it is a friendly rivalry (Not like with the Scottish!) you should really relax, at the end of the day good sport is its own reward.

LeeRay07,
I think you'll find Australia beat England 3-1 in the last football match between the two nations, and that was in England too.

@chunkyduckling We have already won the World Cup granted a while ago but we have done it.

ChunkyDuckling. Obviously touced a nerve there. Just incase it has slipped your memory, we have won the football world cup, one of only eight countries to have done so. By the way, dont use the old population card! If it was only about population China and India would win everything going and New Zealand would never beat Australia, as they always seem to in Rugby! With reference to football, its not how I think, I like a number of sports, I am just summing up how most English people think. We have won it, you have come nowhere near, so jog on!

Although Im a proud Englishmen, Aussies also have the best bands in the world like Jet

There really is some bizzare commentary here. I concur with the thought that there does seem to be a real downer on English / British achievements in both the most recent Commonwealths and also Olympics.

Tom - your swimming comment is wrong. England have not won 3 golds......

In general the status would appear to be - Australia are still amazingly dominant in sport versus their population and resources. However that domination is actually slipping versus both the Home Nations (and specifically England) and also other nations. That domination would have slipped further if the Home Nations had deployed their strongest teams in all events - that is not an excuse it is a simple fact!

Dont disagree evilbungle. Im not worked up, just enjoying a rant to warm me up in chilly Scotland! I think I've been here too long...

There is English arrogance aplenty when typing 'England/Britain', I know many Scots and attitudes like that are the major reason they like beating England even more than the Aussies do!

Leeray,

I think you will find that a fair amount of those Bang On Gold medals you refer to would not have been going onto the England Medal Tally. Prime example I think being Chris Hoy. (And just quietly I am not even sure he would have been a certainty). The best chance of a BRITISH rider winning the men's road race was actually competing and it was not for England but the Isle of Man.

I can't see how on the one hand your whole point is how the article is anti-ENGLISH and yet you want to use examples of the last Olympic medal table (which if you only used English athletes you would not have come close to the Australian tally) as an example of your dominance. Yes England & WALES won the Ashes AT HOME the last time it was played but it amazes me how defending it in Oz before that is never bought up as you got spanked!

Australia is currently investing alot of money in Football and we are slowly improving. You can blather on all you want about penalty shootout losses being the reason you have not won any tournaments in the last 40 odd years, but the fact is apart from 1966 who have won the same amount of silverware in Football as Oz has. Donut!

And the whole penalty thing comes down to bottle anyway so using the fact you lost pen shootouts just makes your football look worse!

At the 2008 olympics Britain took ONE, (1) more medal than the Australia. Not England, but Britain.

To clarify a few things regarding how an Aussie feels about certain sporting fixtures, India V Australia in cricket is a little more important at the moment and has been for the past decade. Events like these are like the tide, and eventually the Ashes will be back on top.

As far as soccer (LOL) being the sport the defines a nation, try telling that to the USA. It's one sport, one sport does not define how successful a country is overall.

Having lived in both England and Australia I would have to say the success of their respective sports men and women can be put down to one thing, and that's the weather. Same thing applies to the USA. Well maybe one other thing and that's the facilities available particularly for the kids. Free facilities, like tennis courts under lights, and cricket nets with grass.
It's difficult to find anywhere In the UK to play your chosen sport for free with a couple exceptions, soccer and darts.

For me though the weather has always been the most significant factor, kids don't want to play in the cold and rain.

Only country to have won a football and rugby world cup? England!
Only country to have won a football and cricket world cup? England! Terrible at other team sports, aren't we!

As a neutral in this, I just love watching all the shenanigans - highly entertaining, usually quite witty, and generally worth watching!

You're trying to create a storm in a teacup Tom and should be ashamed of yourself.
Australia is a great nation with outstanding sporting ability. As long as the sporting rivalry with the UK (yes, the country is the UK and we are all British!) is a healthy one, then it is just that, and no more than that.
The fact that there are a few rabid Pommy bashers over there, much less a trouble stirring BBC blogger, will not draw me into taking a similar stance. Lets just stick to the friendly banter, and leave it at that!

Thewaughtwins
Didn't Britain win 19 golds and Australia 15 in 2008?

brainofjc
you are desperate-dredging up ancient history!
2003 when a team weakened by multiple substitutions lost to Australia....

Oh dear! Whenever you try to have a decent, thought provoking debate with an Australian, they always have to revert to silly, base insults, like calling you a donut! Well that really improves their argument! Incidentally, I will point to British achievements, together with English, as I am British. Most English people are proud to be British, despite the insults that are thrown in our direction, from others North of the Border, that are not!

Archleftback we actually only won 14 golds. I believe he was refering to totals but I am pretty sure you knew that too. ;)

Leeray07.

Australia - Only country to hold the RU, RL and Cricket world cups SIMULTANEOUSLY!

You guys invented all of those right?

If you want to keep going I am sure we can both do list like this all day but to be honest it is a pretty pathetic attempt to show dominance.

Oh and one other thing ENGLAND has never held both the cricket world cup and football world cup or the rugby world cup.

The team that one the cricket WC was actually England and Wales as they play as one team and in the other 2 sports they play seperatly so your argument is not even valid.

How'd the last two rugby World Cups go for you lot?

I am not diminishing Australias achievements, in pointing out Englands. Australia are without doubt the greatest cricketing nation of all time, You only have to go on cricinfo.com and look at statistics in terms of test win% in history. England are a distant 2nd. I also believe that Don Bradman is the greatest sportsman of all time. I am only stating, that so much of Englands sporting attention and focus is poured into football hysteria, not always for the benefit of the team.

Leeray apologies if you took that the wrong way I was not calling you a donut I was refering to the amount of football tournaments you have won compared to us since 66. Donut, Zero, Nought, Nada, None, Zilch, A big Egg. Get it now?????

If you were trying to compare yourself as "BRITISH" then why was your whole response refering to English performances or England.

"Again such a negative, anti-English piece of nonsense. There is indeed a common theme amongst most of the BBC Sport bloggers! Their negativity about English performances and achievement. In addition to British sprinters, there are also a considerable number of athletes who have not attended the games, who would have been certain gold medalists. For a recent list of Anglo-Aussie duels, why not highlight the last olympic medal table which saw Britain finish 4th, ahead of Australia! Why not mention the last ashes series, infact Englands superb record in all forms of cricket in recent series, instead of trotting out claptrap like India v Australia being a better illustration of cricketing hierarchy. Do you really think the Aussies will see it this way, come the winter? I am a massive admirer of the Australian sporting mentality and excellence, but the truth is until they become even half decent at football, by far the biggest gloabal sport, the rest pales into insignificance. That's how the English see it anyway, because football is by far the biggest sport over here. Yes England slumped in the 2nd round at the last world cup, but at least we are regular quarter finalists and if it wasn't for penalties over the years, who knows! Try and be a bit more positive for a change! For instance, how about an article on English golf at the moment, with 4 or 5 players in the Worlds top 20, 2nd only to the USA! Im sick and tired of reading pessimistic, cynical blogs on the BBC, you miserable lot! Start trying to encourage and inspire our athletes and competitors, rather than constantly criticising!"

As far as I am aware the words English and British mean 2 seperate things. And you wonder why those who are not "English" get upset and talk about English arrogance when it comes to British performances!

Well TheTomTyke,

Our last one went much the same as yours as in we did not win. Last time I saw the trophy only winners names were on it and don't worry you MIGHT get yours on there a second time one day.

Bitterly disappointed that the Home Nations didn't feel a need to send competent cycling teams. If the Home Nations do not support the Commonwealth Games then why should anyone else bother. We should be sat here remembering a week of high class battles on 2 wheels against the two best squads in the world, but all we got was a week of high performance training for the Aussies. Maybe it’s time to boot cycling out of the games?

For goodness sake this blog is satire, and tounge in cheek but some people have taken it seriously LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Superranger27, you may have been taking the piss with your reference to Jet, but when you find someone fit to polish the boots of Nick Cave then get back to me.

Davico, I disagree. I am English and British. It is possible to be both, as most of my friends would say they are. When our athletes or competitors are competing for Britain, I cheer for them. If competing separately I cheer for England 1st, but then for the other home nations, against all others involved.

Bitterly disappointed that the Home Nations didn't feel a need to send competent cycling teams
________

Oh hello Jim should we forget about Olympic qualification then. Which is uber tough due to stupid UCI rules and which has the Euro champs which counts towards it in a few weeks when the commonwealths do not count towards London. I think not

I did not say that it was not possible to be both, I said that they mean different things. The original article written refferred to the Australia v England situation happening at the Comm games but then you referred to British cyclists not showing up and Englands dominance in the cricket etc.

Having lived over here for over 6 years I can kind of see sometimes why there is angst shown against the English by the other home nations.

When Murray wins he is British, when he loses he is Scottish. Scottish rider Chris Hoy is not at the Comm Games but we are more than happy that he won those British medals to help put the Aussies in their place at the Olympics. Simon Jones was the HERO of the ENGLAND cricket team, never referncing the fact he is Welsh and it is the English & Welsh cricket board.

It just seems that when it suits the English they will sing from the roofs that they are British but if things are not going well then oh no we are English.

Davico, dont confuse tabloid media headlines and reaction, with the views and opinions of the public. If competing as Britain, I will cheer for them as British. If someone is competing as Scottish, providing it is not against an Englishman, I will always cheer for them, or someone that is Welsh, or Irish as they are near neighbours and I have more affinity with them, than other countries. Number of friends from there etc.

Hi JimDavis. Not sure if I have enough time on my hands to list English/British music icons who are fit to polish the boots of Nick Cave, but as I live in Brighton and see him quite regularly i'll send him your love. x

Snipe Snipe Snipe, this article has just become an Aussie v English bash

- Aussie came behind Britain in the 2008 Olympics, well done to GB, you will repeat that in 2012 no doubt with home advantage.
- Aussie's Comm Games total dropped from 2006 as we had home advantage there and can send more athletes into events so you win more medals, a la India right now. Scotland will do very well in 2014 no doubt.
- Aussie are better at England in Hockey, Swimming, Netball, Rugby (Generally, 2 WC's to 1, up an down form) and Cricket (Win the Ashes in Aussie or win a 50 over World Cup and we can look further) and other sports.
- England/Britain are far better in Football, better in Athletics, overall in Golf (I second Leeray for asking for an article on British golfers success)

Aussie are great swimmers but we are humble enough to know the USA are better than us. Please stop the sniping, it's childish for cousin nations to bicker so much over whose better at sport, sheesh!!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Guys

I think it might be useful to bear in mind the all important issue of government funding for the elite sports when trying to compare performances between nations. As one would expect, Australian Government funding for elite sports reached a peak in the lead up to the 2000 Sydney Olympics. This resulted in a marked increase in the performance of Australian athletes from the late 90s until about 2006... a period for instance where Australia could match the might of the US tit-for-tat in the swimming pool. This has now changed. While Australia continues to punch above its weight in elite sports, funding has declined considerably and areas where the Aussies use to dominate are now being more fiercely competed by other nations (incl the Home Nations).

Interestingly, British Government funding for elite sports has been increasing markedly in the lead up to the 2012 London Olympics - and we saw the effects of this with a much improved performance in Beijing.

In the end, performing consistently at an elite level requires access to top class sporting infrastructure - and this requires top-class funding. Like all government programmes, funding for elite sports comes in cycles. As a pre-Olympic host nation, British sports are on the upward cycle. As a post-Olympic host nation, Australian sports are on the downwards cycle.

We may have to wait for the 2020 Olympic Games before Australia and Britain are on the same funding cycle before a more fair comparision of genetic sporting prowess can be made!

Been watching the Border-Gavaskar trophy, and as much as the Indian meedia might like to claim its bigger than the Ashes, the huge swathes of empty seats (and the recognition by the media that two tests is as far as they can push a moribund event - Test cricket in India), really makes a mockery of any talk that its even remotely comparable to the Ashes.

In commentary on Monday morning there were seven references by Aussie commentators to the Ashes... wonder how many references to the Border-Gavaskar Trophy they'll be in any given day of the Ashes?

I am tired of the old cliche that when a non-english person loses they are welsh/ scots/ irish, but when they win they are british. I have looked for this for years and have not found a single example to back it up. It is just an excuse for failing to support english teams like the english generally support all the others.

I am all for an intelligent debate, but was hoping my comments @ No.22 would kill this stone dead before it started to get silly. Unfortunately......

Britain should beat the Aussies every time. We have 2.5 times the population.

We will certainly beat them at the 2012 Olympics because we have home town advantage - every host nation always does well. And the Blair/Brown government has chucked a lot of money at sport. A lot of that money will, however, evaporate after 2012.

Lets just admit it we are not as good at sport and the Aussies are one of the greatest sporting nations on earth. We on the other hand host the greatest annual sporting competition in the world - the Premier League. Players from all over the world come here to participate.

We are also much better than them at some things like banking ... um ... high tech engineering ... er ... life sciences. Okay then what about the BBC.

Don't forget my Aussie brothers and sisters, we'll always have them at AFL!

'In the 4 big team sports - M Hockey, W Hockey, Netball and Rugby - Australia are contesting the final, England are not.'

Rugby... yeah guess so but England did beat them in the group and lost to the gold medallist NZ in the semi-final.

Godiva - did you see the conversion that Australia fluffed near the end of that game. I wonder if they had figured out what the best result for a medal was by then?

Leeray

I know many people have pointed this out already but you don't seem to grasp the point. No one has a problem with you being British or English... but in one post you have used the two interchangeably several times to make a point.

If you have a problem with the writer over-stating Australia's dominance over ENGLAND then you can't use BRITAIN'S success over Australia to make your point... you have to use examples of ENGLAND'S success. I have no idea if English athlete's won more medals at the last Olympics but that would be a better comparison.

Otherwise it would be like an Aussie saying to a Saffa, "Aus are better at Rugby than SA, just look at how many RWCs and 3Ns Aus/NZ has won". It don't make sense.

As for the comment that some English athlete's "would have been certain gold medalists"... I've watched enough sport in my time to know that that there is no such thing.

Oh dear. What a sorry looking bunch of comments.
England, Scotland, Wales all register for a BRITISH passport.
English arrogance????
Seems there's an equal amount of arrogant Aussie comments.
Scottish Andy Murry - I believe he's done a fair amount of England bashing yet he is overwhelmed with support at Wimbledon.

Surely people should realise that bitter rivalry is a result of CLOSELY fought contests (oh I wonder what possible comments an Aussie might think up here yet you say we're arrogant!)

Lets be honest about things, Aussies hate the English but how often do you here the English bad mouthing Australian achievements in the press. Oh, and this column is about the healthy rivalry between the nations, not an Aussie bash before anyone goes there.

Amazing how comments in Aus about British Olympic achievements in 2008 were based around Britain only winning sports sitting down yet here we are talking about achievements in cycling.

Seems that not is the nation of Australia arrogant but hypocritical also!

England have never won the Cricket World Cup.

The title should surely be "Australia England Rivalry: It's not just cricket"?

Unusually for me I can't find the motivation for sporting banter today. I will say, however, that the notion that Andy Murray is British when he wins and Scottish when he loses is simply a lie created by bigots north of the border. It's untrue. A Scottish lie to justify hatred.

Agree with Eewires ( post 44 ). It seems to me that all of the arrogance and nastiness comes from the other Home Nations fans of various sports, and that they then try to cover up their peevishness by blaming it all on the nasty English who have the cheek to actually support them when England are not playing themselves.

As to the English / Aussie rivalry , I enjoy it , although I suspect there is no equivalent of 'self-effacement' in an Aussie dictionary, and definitely the most despicable thing I have ever seen in a sporting contest was the behaviour of that Australian prime minister throwing the medals at our RU World Cup winners like a spoilt child who needed his bottom smacking.

As a neutral I love the sporting rivalry between England and Australia. The best part about it is that at most times the rivalry is very healthy.

As an Aussie living in the US now I crave any normal sport I can get my hands on. By that I mean cricket, rugby and, well, anything other than basketball, NFL or baseball. I still fervently relish any challenge with England, but let's not forget that Aussies crave any decent competition. I may be alone in this but if we play well and lose I'm still satisfied, especially if we're develping our youth. Living in the UK for 5 years allowed me to see how Britain has finally got around to developing local talent which gives them a chance of winning something every now and again. Competition can only be good for sporting survival. For I worry that the computer generation will start to eat into the pool of Aussie talent. Our small population would be more affected by the apathy of youth I see in the US and started to see in the UK before I left 2 years ago. Our swimmers aren't what they once were, and by that I'm comparing OZ and the US. They were always our benchmark in the pool and always will be. If the rivalry is to be maintained then OZ needs to keep developing and not getting too carried away by our past dominations. Not that I want England to win too much, Scotland, Wales and NI I can live with but England occassionaly needs a good whipping to get them back to reality. :)

The idea that English people reject other British people when they are unsuccessful is ridiculous and has no basis in truth, making the person that said it seem ridiculous. The fact is Tim Henman was always British (British flags not english etc.) whereas Scottish people have tried to claim Andy Murray as Scottish (look at the flags at Wimbledon or see the Scottish media) which is something England has never done for any sportsman. I think it is sad Scotland feels it can't share its sportspeople with the rest of Britain like the rest of Britain does. Also the person who said about English and British sportspeople was obviously not mixing the two up but was using the two identities as they are relevant to theire sport, i.e. Rio Ferdinand or Jonny Wilkinson are English but Lewis Hamilton or Andy Murray are British.

The fact is over the 5 main world sports (football, cricket, tennis, rugby union and golf) the UK and Australia are by far the best two nations so why do Aussies feel the need to demean our achievements or vice-versa. Lets just celebrate that we have the strongest and most successful sporting rivalry in the world - forget India!

Respect to England for a lot of recent sporting success. Actually I think in the past seven years or so, they are outpacing us in terms of achievements overall. We'll come back though. The only thing I hate, is when people from either side make non-existant excuses.

On that note, @Archleftback, yes it was a bit of fun in a meaningless friendly in 2003 but it's a bit dubious to suggest the England football team was 'weakened' by wholesale substitutions. Those changes came at half-time when England's top players were already 2-0 down. The subs constituted an improvement and anyone watching the game would have readily swapped out the 'stars'.

By the way, as an Aussie, I care a lot more about the Ashes than the B-G trophy.

Now lets compare Nobel prices for intellectual achievement.

Nobel PRICES for intellectual achievement? Well I guess you won't be putting your name forward then.

"although I suspect there is no equivalent of 'self-effacement' in an Aussie dictionary, and definitely the most despicable thing I have ever seen in a sporting contest was the behaviour of that Australian prime minister throwing the medals at our RU World Cup winners"

Oh we're a very humble people, the difference between us is that Australians usually wait until we've accomplished something before shouting how great we are, or giving out the MBEs. Anyone who's been in England in the lead up to a football World Cup may spot the distinction.

Since we are referencing the rugby WC, you may have forgotten the behaviour of the then British IRB chairman when he was supposed to have been handing out the runners up medals? It was also "despicable".

I will point out that the Australian sports minister in 2008 was a very good sport and did his forfit after making a bet with Gary whats his face who was the British sportsminister at the Olympics

Cassandra wrote:

Britain should beat the Aussies every time. We have 2.5 times the population.

----

But the weather is lousy, which may explain why the UK has more great musicians and Nobel Prize winners

(best Aussie musician is Nick Cave, and he lives in Brighton)

Interesting that most English commenting are proud to be British also, fair enough. I don't see to many Welsh,Scottish, or Irish on here saying the same thing. England just automatically assume that these other countries are all in unison with England and reloice in Englands success.
It's purely political as far as these countries are concerned and certainly not the feelings of the man on the street.

I feel part British myself having a welsh parent, but having lived and visted both North and South Wales more times than I can poke a stick at them, the locals would sooner support the All Blacks than an England team. Trust me there were plenty of cheers when England went out of the world cup in the Welsh pubs.

I think Australia were always going to top the medals table here even if England and the other home countries had sent their top teams in all sports.

But with 2 days to go I think England could match their Gold medal tally from Melbourne which would be a great achievement with an under strength team.

I am certain Britain will once again beat Australia in the Olympics medal table in 2012.

One 'splashes' contest I am really looking forward to tomorrow is the Platform Diving, Matthew Mitchum v Tom Daley.

In contrast to friendly banter, mean minded posturing usually has at its heart a profound lack of self esteem, which drives a perceived need to overcompensate. Whether such attitudes are more prevalent in some countries than others I will leave others to discuss, or reveal by their behaviour :o)

As an Englishman living in Australia, I can quite categorically state that Australians find beating the English FAR more important than vice versa. Back home we still look at Australians as that cute nation that sprang from our loins, and aside of the Ashes we want them to do well. We would always want Australia to beat the US for example.

Not so over here, pom bashing is the biggest national sport. The press can quite freely make comments about England and the English with an impunity that could never be used if similar comments were applied to, say, the Lebanese.

And in the meantime, they view sports such as Rugby League as the best sports in the world. You really HAVE to laugh. :)

"Australia, a sporting nation but not a nation of sports".

2. At 3:26pm on 12 Oct 2010, Brizzle4ever wrote:
Only the Aussies can say whether the Border-Gavaskar Trophy means more than the Ashes as they participate in and support both. The other two participants are bound to be biased.

I don't quite think so...I don't give a damn for what the Aussies say.

I wouldn't characterise all GB/england v Australia rivalry as good natured banter as some of the British ( old Empire ) loyalists and Aust anglophiles both seem to ..there is a lot of negative feeling not so far below the surface on both sides...think England/GB v Germany or Ireland.( Actually I suspect similar stuff was said in America pre 1776 ).I certainly see a much uglier aspect of all this becoming the norm and have been quite unpleasantly suprised at the number of people whose attitude to the other is anything but conciliatory
Remember the UK has the much larger and better funded media ( ie BBC )always looking for copy so stories like this will always get more of a run than in Australia (my understanding is that there is something like between 5 and 10 Brit media for every Aust media rep in Delhi )
I'm told that the Australian sports people operate on the basis that no country with a larger population and /or economy shall outperform them ... so they would be much more concerned about say New Zealand out medalling them (which has happened )than England

I'm an Aussie cricket supporter and presently today to win against India in India is the far more difficult achievement, therefor I regard that as the bigger trophy than the Ahses. That goes without saying, it has been fo a decade and a half. Steve Waugh was always miffed he didn't get that win in India.

If England start winning the ashes a little more often and become legitimately competitive then it might get back to where it use to be.
It is what it is.

@ 69: Although I haven't seen anybody saying that the rivalry is exclusively good natured banter (there are enough rabid posts on this blog to dispell that notion), if you are unpleasantly surprised by the antagonists, why are you dismissing the people advocating friendly relations as 'old empire loyalists' and 'anglophiles'. Can't we just be ordinary people with decent civilised values; and what makes you think we are a small minority?
Btw, don't fall for that myth that the American Revolution was all about liberty. It was about furthering the commercial interests of the Anti-British third of the population (another third was pro-British and the rest couldn't really care less, hardly characteristic of an oppressed nation) - this from an American historian! And anyway, the world has moved on quite a lot since then :o)

PS: no intent to diminish the reputations of the Founding Fathers (most of whom were admirable men) intended above. It's those who come later who twist history for their own purposes.

The American revolution was about a group of people that realised in order to evolve further a person had to be free. It was about fighting for freedom, and just as well they did. It's interesting how the movement happened in America, but not Australia.

There were many in America who stood to benefit from having their own government, and so there should be. You don't fight for freedom for nothing.

Personally I think the so called English/Aussie rivalry is over stated. Yes we like to beat England but contrary to what some English living in australia say, we are not obsessed with it. And if we are so nasty and arrogant, why on earth do these people choose to live among us. My parents are originally from England, they took an interest in what sports we competed in. Id rather see the Brits win than the USA during the olympics. I think that people overseas have the wrong impression of Aussies, not all of us are sports mad.

As for the weather being important, what a cop out. swimming is undercover, likewise many other sports. I see our hockey, soccer and AFL kids playing in pouring rain. My son did athletics and they would race in rain or in between showers. No its not always sunny in australia.


also, re the Sally Pearson incident, I don't know if its been reported over there but she approached the English team manager on the bus to tell them she had no hard feelings, she knew she broke in the race but having been told she had not broke first had continued to run and believe she had won gold. She was more peeved about the way the whole thing was handled which had nothing to do with the English.

What the English/British have to do is support their athletes, stop bagging every loss and take a note out of the Aussie fan book. If our team lose we still back our athletes and look towards the next chance to compete

It's all just a good bit of fun banter, each country likes beating the other

@WHL_N17 - In regards to your Rugby League bashing, sure it doesn't have the worldwide popularity of Rugby Union or Football, but unlike football, Rugby League has no diving princesses that carry on like idiots when someone brushes their leg, while this is a minority in Football, it is still quite common, Football is a great game to play and watch but the diving tarnishes it, if you carried on like that in League you wouldn't last to long.

# 69 (cont.)
OOPs... I meant to say that it is the Australian position re CWG and Olympics medals that the aim is that no country with a SMALLER poulation and/or economy was to out medal them (I think it's accepted that the likes of USA and China will ...normally....outperform Australia )I'm told that this rule of thumb is also the case for a few other countries ( well the Netherlands anyway )

I think the english- aussie rivalry is the greatest.... just like India-Pak one..... at present i feel the England team are no pushovers... they put in an excellent fight in whatever sports they contest

Amusing stuff. I for one barrack for Australia, especially hard against the Poms. However, if Australia is out, I don't mind seeing the white skinned ones win either. I have always amused myself with the English attitude. I think it stems back to the War. History tells us the Poms won - but why did they keep that cold, little, uninteresting island they call home. Why didn't they swap it for Spain or something ?

#5 "Yes England slumped in the 2nd round at the last world cup, but at least we are regular quarter finalists"
at least you are regular 1/4 finalists. such ambition.
#67 "As an Englishman living in Australia, I can quite categorically state that Australians find beating the English FAR more important than vice versa."
really?? As an Australian living in England, I can quite categorically state that the English find beating the Australians FAR more important than vice versa because it so rarely happens. Australian's consider India & Sth Africa as their main cricket rivals and NZ and Sth Africa as the main Rugby rivals with France, Wales and Ireland not far behind. The Ashes are purely a money-grabbing exercise for the ACB, especially when the English tour Aust. We can put our thieving convict heritage to good use and rip you all off blind.

"English/British competitors have chosen to concentrate on other international competitions and this largely explains why Australia won have won so many medals."
no it doesn't. it wouldn't have made one bit of difference. the over-hyped British cycling team was destroyed by the kids in the Australian cycling team at this years world championships. what else have you got? a couple of gymnasts and one or two track athletes?
but hey, at least england won the 1966 and 2003 World Cups. not a bad record at all for such a mediocre sporting nation. you should feel proud.

@43 who call test cricket in India - a moribund event. If you really were watching the test, you need to get your eyes checked. I went to the ground for the first 2 days and it was about 90% full. The 10% remaining seats were the astronomically priced ones. Still there was a crowd of 30000+. Its just because we have huge stadiums (compared to English ones), that you see "huge swathes of empty seats". I wonder if you had an MCG or Eden Gardens in England, would you be able to fill it even half for a non Ind/Pak test!!!

@mightydeceaser on a roll. I like your passion but have a nice cold frothie and a good lie down mate ! We all know England lives in past glories, but they are missing some very high profile athletes. Linford Christie, Bobby Moore, Frankie Dettori (well they claim him) ummmmm the British Bulldogs wrestling tag teamers, ummmmmmm Frank Bruno. See - they are doing so well without these illustrious athletes.

I've just about had my fill of the commonwealth games and well done to the indians for providing us with a sometimes comical event.Who could ever forget the dingo sniffing around the shooting arena like nobody's business and a great effort by the shooters for not going for the easy solution of rectifying the matter.In my view, the reason why the australians haven't won as many medals compared to Melbourne 4 years ago is our kids are spending more time in front of the television and getting into more radical sports like skateboarding surfing and laying in bed.Did i mention that we recently overtook the U.S for obesity? Nonetheless, the games are winding to a close and despite critics saying they are becoming obselete,it would be a shame if they ceased to exist. It gives tiny nations like Nauru and(enter small island in english channel here)a chance to compete with sporting giants.Now my mind moves forward to the Ashes and if the england and wales team are to do the inconceivable they must 1st beat Aus at the gabba. I believe the 'gabbatoir" is the key to winning the series. England should pick a team who are comfortable with a bouncy pitch.

I would be interested to know who Australians want to win in , say, an England v Germany football/soccer match.. I'd say it would be very divided... although I suspect the punters on this (BBC) blog may not be very typical.
I'd expect Brits to always support any team that's opposing Australia on principle ( but then a much larger proportion of Brits than Australians have no interest in...or are opposed to..sport )

Ha 83 and 81. What a couple of idiots. Most people on here so far have had something decent to say and here you are with snide underhand comments. Perhaps you need to go back to bed why the adults of the two nations have a debate.

I actually feel sorry for most the Australians on here now. You've made them look ridiculous and childish.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

@86 . Bahahaha. As opposed to pompous and prude ? Tsk tsk.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

88, I stand corrected, it appears that childish comment has been misdirected as you clearly have a grasp of the ENGLISH language.
Try
arrogant
hypocritical
or
stereotypical
(you may need a dictionary to translate polysyllabic words)

Regarding the Rugby final. I don't see how anyone could legitimately claim that Australia outperformed England. Yes they wont he silver but this has as much to do with the intricaies fo teh draw as anythign else.

England beat Australia in the groups, due to the draw that placed them in the same half as the winners New Zealand, who neither team were likely to win against. Ironically by losing the one game they played against the Gnlish, the Australians have benefitted.

Well hackerjack try this. Australia beat South Africa by 7 points in the semi-finals. The South Africans beat the English for the bronze medal. New Zealand narrowly beat the Australians for the gold medal. New Zealand thrashed England in the semi-finals. In the pool match, England beat Australia by 2 points. Yes Australia clearly outperformed England for the tournament. England outperformed Australia in one match.

@Andrew Thomas
Seriously thanks for your complements.

The athletes dont have a lot of bad things to say im guessing because they consider themselves ambassadors of their country and sport. Now if everyone involved is fine about the quality of the facilities i dont see why anyone else sitting in the comofort of their own homes can have a problem because it does not affect them directly. All events started more or less on time.
Delhi belly will need to be put down to a lack of preperation to come to a foreign country with a high instance of this. Seriously, prepare yourself for a disease if you are going to a country/city that THE DISEASE IS NAMED AFTER!

The article covers the lack of performances well enough. I thoroughly enjoyed these games, the Indian crowd is noisy (the english hockey men should be pleased, you will never get a rabid indian full house in a stadium for anything but cricket usually). Everything else has been good enough and some things have been great. Thanks for participating and for those who didn't, im sure tehy have their reasons but its still their loss.

theboganpimpernal

As I stated previously I have lived over here for 6 years and must say that (and don't let this get back to my mates back home) I find myself supporting most English teams. (that is unless the game is between Oz and England or in Rugby, my sport of reference in which I just don't enjoy the way England's style of play). I have been to the last 2 English football matches at Wembley and supported them.

I think that alot of English have this notion that Australian's hate the English and like nothing better than beating them. Yes we love beating the English, especially at their own games, but I think this has more to do with a shared history, language, culture and the fact we have so many similarites.

It is why Australia and New Zealand have such a strong sporting rivalry and love beating each other. It is the sibling rivalry thing. The only time aussies get annoyed at the English is when the English try to act like the Bully big brother who thinks because he was there first is somehow superior. And I am sure kiwis feel the exact same way when moron Australians act in this fashion too.

With regards to other posts. 1. Weather in Australia and investment in the AIS in years gone by have definitely played a factor in Australian sporting success. Having lived in the UK I have a healthy respect for any sportsmen or sportswoman who braves the elements and the traffic to maintain any sort of training regimen. Particularly athletes like rowers, kayakers, canoeists and road cyclists. 2. In recent years there has been less money invested in sporting programs and athlete development in Australia. As a result there have been declines in collective performance. In parallel, England have emulated the AIS model of the 90s and we all saw the return on investment in Beijing. England should be well represented on the podiums in 2012. Home nations always perform better at the Olympics. England will not be the exception. 3. Comparing the performance of Australia against Great Britain is clearly ridiculous. Australia punches well above its weight. Imagine if Australia and New Zealand were grouped together! We would still be a fraction of the population of England (let alone Great Britain) and the success would be even greater in virtually any sport you care to name. That's just the plain truth. The differentiator is climate and access to facilities. e.g. Australia has enjoyed limited success in track events. We have the good weather but you will be hard pressed to find a 400m running track. In the USA they are everywhere and the USA always excels in this arena. Most high schools have a decent track. 4. Both Australia and England have idiots that embarass the rest of us. They place way too much emphasis on their nation's sporting success due to their own feelings of inadequacy. We can't shut them up but we can ignore them. 5.Finally we have thousands and thousands of Englishmen who live in Australia and love it. Most I know have become citizens or intend to. Those that return to the UK do so for family reasons or because they are miserable, bitter sods.

Well done balanced;
The first comment I've seen that offers a well (funnily enough) balanced stance on the topic. Not one comment anyone else form either nation or I as an Englishman or could argue with.
One thing I would add; although Australia does have 1/4 of the population of GB and DO punch above their weight, I feel that judgements based on population leaves too many grey areas to be validated. If this was our bases, as stated earlier I believe, India and China (who make 1/3 of the worlds's population) would be topping the medals tables as 1 ad 2. Medals per person is also flawed because it doesn't consider investment towards sport. Perhaps the soundest judgement would be to say that medals tables do not validate the sporting performances of a country at the time do. (I say recent as this would eradicate needless comments about past endeavours which have no reflection on performance at current)

sorry was meant to say;
Perhaps the soundest judgement would be to say that medals tables do not validate the sporting performances of a country but performances of various teams at recent events do. (I say recent as this would eradicate needless comments about past endeavours which have no reflection on performance at current)

educ09

I assume that is why the BBC has also provided the medal tables per population and GDP.

Looking at both of these it is clear that the ppacific and carribean islands clearly are athletically gifted nations. (Though if anyone else has ever played against Pacific Islanders in Rugby this would not come as a surprise!!! Think I can still feel some of the hits!)

I think that the fact that there even is a Comm games shows what sport means to the Nations competing. The Commonwealth and Empire may not have always been the best thing to happen to many nations around the world but the love of and drive to succeed in sport I think is one of the Biggist positives.

I will just point out that from my experience of both countries, the majority of Australians take part in this banter between the two nations, whereas the majority of the English are not even aware this rivalry exists.

Although, I believe this is because English people are just not into sport as much as the Aussies, and when it comes to football the main rivals are France and Germany (who they rarely beat anyway!).

@ 95: apt title - I compliment you on your appropriately named review.