Pietersen hides cracks in England batting

If Prior can prove himself in the ODI then he should be given his chance. That improves the batting slightly. Broads bowling is not good enough right now, get Simon Jones back for India tests. The bowling attack should ease the pressure on batting.

"It is fair to say that India would probably refuse to play against England with Read in the team."

If I was the England selectors I'd pick Read just to hack India off!

The way they've tried to bully clubs around the world, especially in England, into destroying the careers of ICL players is an absolute disgrace. And I doubt the ECB are too happy about the schedule they've put up for us this summer.

The way I see it is, pick Read, India go all hissy fit and refuse to play, and hey presto we'd have a forfeited series, remind them that Cricket is a global game and not one in which India can do as they like. Although after the Harbajan palava in Aus, it seems they may be able to do just that...

Deat OB.
Sorry mate but your wrong. Hes not the third captain to score a hundred in hes maiden test as England captain. Hes the 4th. Interestingly hes the 3rd SA born captain of England to do it. Lamb, Strauss and now Pietersen, all scored centuries for England when they played as captain. Arent you so fortunate to be able to get SA players to switch allegance?

"It is fair to say that India would probably refuse to play against England with Read in the team"

On what grounds exactly?

Like #2 above, I think England should call India's bluff here. Regardless of the dispute between ICL and the Indian board, the foreign players contracted to it didn't break any international cricket regulations.

This isn't just bluff- better to have any bad-tempered row now, before the squads are chosen, than when everyone's already travelled to Ahmedabad.

There must be an argument that India will lose more in a messy legal dispute with Lord's than they'll save by killing off the ICL.

I agree with Aggers that the Saffers look jaded. But they've no reason to. In the first three days of the Lords test they looked very poor and the reason given was because they hadn't played since April. Now they've only played a handful of games and they're looking jaded. What's up with them ?

Dear oh dear; change for changes sake....

...and I don't mean the team.

Pietersen was the third England captain to score a century in his first innings; as Bill Frindell pointed out earlier, Strauss' was in the second innings (therefore his second innings as England captain).

Regarding the WK position; I think Foster needs to be given the gloves, Broad at number 7, Strauss needs a break from international cricket to get some form back. If he can get some runs in the meantime, I've no problem with Vaughan back to open with Cook (after some decent catching practice).

The batting will still be a little weak, but until we have a bowler or WK who can score 100's regularly, that's always going to be the case.

FletchCrik;

I think they got a little bit too tiddled after winning the series!! Although I did expect more from them, especially as KP was captain.

How many times does it have to be proven that Flintoff is not a test match 6? He had a golden summer, 2005, that's it. He is one of the best bowlers in the world. Pick him as a bowler.

Ambrose can't bat and Prior can't keep so pick the best keeper - Read or Foster.

Time to bring back Tresco, in for Strauss. Surely he is over his 'stress related illness' now.

Bopara is good enough to do a 'Kallis' as the fifth bowler.

Adil Rashid is growing in sture all the time (7 wickets yesterday?) and should be given a chance. He adds real depth to the batting too.

My starting 11 for Ahmedabad:

Cook
Trescothick
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bopara
Flintoff
Rashid
Read
S. Jones
Anderson

Key, Denly, Shah, Foster, Broad, Sidebottom, Harmison to tour as well.

Aggers is right to raise concerns about the batting. Strauss's confidence must be very low and he doesn't look like scoring any runs and Bell appears not to have the mojo for test cricket. Shame that Shah wasn't given a chance and there must be quite a few other batsmen, Key for example, who would do well given a chance. The central contract system does appear to have the unintended consequence of limiting selection to the chosen few while denying opportunities for those who don't have one. England need to select from a bigger pool of players.

Read has the steely personality for test cricket-anther 74 in the current county game when his team were under the cosh.
I would like to see Read in the team with Steve Davies as back up.

The bowling attack looks good with Harmy on song.
Broad is probably not ready yet-Mark Davis of Durham looks good on paper-what do other people think who have seen him play?

The batting is the main problem and has been for some time.
Strauss is really on borrowed time for me.
Bell continues to frustrate and Flintoff is not good enough at six.

England should select Read not only as he's the best keeper around but what right do Indoa have to control who's picked for another country. This position would effectively be financial apartheid.

That said I can see Prior returning as No6 bat and keeper and he has had a good season for Sussex. Flintoff at 7and perhaps Broad at 8.

G'd day Tim.

"It is fair to say that India would probably refuse to play against England with Read in the team.

That threat should have nothing at all to do with England's selection policy ..."

No, it shouldn't, but if the ECB are of the opinion that a threat has been made, either directly or indirectly, they should seek formal confirmation from the BCCI that there is no England qualified cricketer who would be persona non grata on any future tour of India by an England team.

If the BCCI is prepared to give this assurance then there is no problem; if it is not prepared to do this then England should refuse to send a team to India until it is. And if the ICC refuses to support one country's right to pick any of its citizens to represent it then we should leave the ICC too.

well done to england today
even tho there were a few blips,
nice 1 kp on the ton
nice 1 colly for the stand with kp
nice 1 harmy for the near 50, way to go!!!!

i agree strauss is lookin out of form, i say give him 1 more chance to perform second innings , and well he may have to go :(
pretty much happy for now, think we should definatly nurture broad, and also i think some times we should drop monty.
depends if the wicket will spin, altho great captaining by KP to put monty on when he did , both times.

we should include jones in the squad too, and maybe adopt a rotational policy with the bowlers

im really not sure about the selectors, form should be the key

as for the keeper hmmm, i dont really care if ambrose gets runs next innings;/ come on we have so many options, we have read, prior and foster chomping at the bit to prove themselves

out of badness i would love to see read go in cos it will anger india hehe, but i think all of them have a legitimate place

as for harmison not going to india , well, i think he should be in the squad, remember we wont be playing on the traditional wickets, the new ones may be uneven and possibly even dangerous!!!! lets see!!!

I'm not one of those who swoon over Read, but if he is not picked because of his ICL connections then that is an absolute disgrace. Many years ago (rightly) we refused to bow down to SA and picked Basil Doliviera. We should take exactly the same attitude to India. Who the heck do they think they are in trying to influence which Team English players play for.

As a fan of Kent I am heartily sick of India and its overbearing stance toward world cricket.

Wd to KP, but also to Harmy and Jimmy for their most entertaining as well as valuable batting partnership. Anderson-as-Pieterson, reverse-sweeping [or trying to...] was great fun.
Bring in James Foster, as soon as possible. Don't think the wicket keeper should have to make top-flight runs [have we been spoiled by Gilchrist, and before that Alan Knott ?] if he's really good at his specialism. Prior can make runs but subtract the number he costs in byes, dropped catches and missed stumpings and he's not particularly valuable to the team. Bowlers do best when getting proper backup.
We can't get away with 5 batsmen. Flintoff isn't a reliable batsman now - if he plays [which he shouild] it must be as a bowler, with runs as a bonus. Bring in Shah, or Robert Key - Bopara a must for ODIs.
Meanwhile. fellas, get them out between the showers tomorrow and win one !

@ nospecialcharacter - no we cant do with 5 batsmen thats why we could do with either prior, read or foster they are all better than ambrose im afraid with bat and gloves ;/

also im sure we couldnt emulate gilchrist but im pretty suren we could emulate alec

Two things I can't get my head around.

1st: Simon Jones was arguably our best bowler last time he played for England yet he doesn't even look like coming back. Why, is there something I don't know?

2nd: How many chances will Strauss be given before the "expert" selectors realise that he isn't good enough. Admitably I am a mere armchair expert but even I can see that he doesn't look like scoring runs and hasnt really since 2004/05.

The fun bit, my team would be

Cook
Key
Pietersen (C)
Bell
Collingwood
Prior (WK)
Flintoff
Harmison
Jones
Anderson
Panesar

It doesnt matter who is bowling, the opposition dont get a rest and more often than not that attack WILL take the presure off the batsmen.

Lets face it the only world class batsman that England have is KP and he is not even english. That is a total contrast to SA who im not sure but i think that the top 4 of SA have scored more centuries than every England player to play in the series. With the exception of Pieterson not a single england player would get into the SA team. I fear for england next summer because when the aussies come they will have developed all their team that they to need for the ashes like Casson, Marsh etc. England need to bring in players like Rashid, Foster, Denly for the India and Sri lanka series to get them ready for the ashes clear out players like Strauss, Ambrose and Panesar(He is simply a liability when batting and when bowling on an absolute gem of a pitch at edgebaston he couldn't get a wicket). Also Bell for Shah because Bell only seems to be able to get a flashy 30 or 40 then nicks it behind.

Hey Aggers, really enjoyed your last spell on the commentary mic tonight with Mr Boycott - some of this chat seems to form the foundation of your blog tonight: Ambrose and the knife-edge he is walking/batting etc...etc...

Anyway, just wanted to say it was good to hear you back at your commentating best: letting Geoffrey go off on his merry way and holding back, just enough, with witty asides; perfect.

Like some others, I have written a few harsh things about your blog over the last week of two. Let’s forget it: let’s make up and be friendly.

By the way have to congradulate Pieterson on his innings wonderfull and also Collingwood everyone forgot about his innings because of Pieterson and Harmison. All terrific to watch hope for another good days cricket tomorrow

11

Mark Davies is a out-and-out swing bowler like Martin Saggers who thrives on English conditions, particularly around April and May.

Might be the kind of bowler to play for England in May, or in New Zealand but doubtful elsewhere.

Other thoughts

Rashid getting a 7-for is great news, his batting has deteriorated a bit this season but if his bowling is improving its a great sign as England will probably be looking for him to play at 6, 7 or 8.

I would pick Swann and Rashid. Panesar simply isn't a good enough cricketer and hasn't shown the necessary discipline to improve (or the management haven't helped him improve, either scenario is worrying) the weakest aspects of his game.

If England are to beat Australia, the best cricketers have to play and Panesar is too much of a joke figure, immediately handing Australia a big advantage.

Similarly Simon Jones must come back into the reckoning, but Broad I feel, although a terrific batsmen off the back foot needs a bowling coach to help him bowl more than one length. It was less than 12 months ago that Broad was hit for 6 sixes in an over, it may have been 20-20 but you can be sure Ajantha Mendis wouldn't be hit for 6 sixes in an over against any batsman, at any level of competition.

If Broad improves his full-pitched bowling you have a possible batting line-up of:

6: Flintoff
7: Prior
8: Broad
9: Rashid
10: Harmison
11: Simon Jones

It's then only the top order you have to sort out. :-)

I think now Vaughan's gone we're finally getting a good idea of our current strongest line-up. Ambrose isn't good enough and whilst I'm a massive fan of Broad, his bowling isn't good enough.

For me, Prior and S Jones have to come in. People keep telling me Jones is not fit but as far as I'm concerned he's as fit as Freddie!

COME ON ENGLAND!!

The batting line-up I've shown will prompt people to ask for Chris Read, but the question I would ask is, is he the best keeper in England.

Anytime I've seen him play, he's been dodgy batting as well as behind the stumps.

The question should become, who is the best keeper who can also stand the pressure of the Ashes, or the subcontinent.

Read has certainly weakened under pressure. Foster played well in Australia without scoring many runs but I don't remember many howlers with the gloves, he could be the man.

Geraint Jones kept better than many gave him credit for.

It's open, but my pick wouldn't be Read.

Is anyone aware of how good a keeper Davies of Worcestershire is? He's a fine batsman but I wonder about his keeping, how many byes has he conceded in how many games?

Well done England.A goodish day.A few downers but you cant win them all!
If anything I think KP can see the weakness in the batting line up and Im sure he will be making this point to the selectors before the next big game.The pitch continues to be troublesome for both sides and bowlers have done pretty well on both sides.Im pleased Collingwood made runs and he does bat well with the captain it seems.Bell was doing OK but he is no number 3.Cook looks pretty tired and perhaps he should be rested?His fielding has suffered and his concentration in batting looks jaded.I agree with comments regards Flintoff,he is best used much further down the order.Broad was not himself and would have been better in a position where he could have built an innings he is a genuine batsman and will do well in the future.His bowling is only fair at present and he should decide if its worth pursuing ..Ambrose.....dear oh! dear.He will be packing his bags I fear.No problems with the bowling and Im pleased Anderson seems to have been recharged under KP.Harmison has now proved that he is back and that he was kept out of the team by a combination of Vaughan.Moores and selectors.He looks pretty good at the moment.KP will be sticking with the fighters and the rest?...well lets say we will be forgetting them pretty soon.
It means at least a new Wkt keeper,and batsman-maybe more!!!! My choice would be Key for Strauss and I guess Foster for Ambrose.I would bat Broad higher above Foster to see how he performs with just a little more pressure leaving Flintoff,Harmison,Anderson and Monty to bring up the rear.At some point Jones will be bought in so one bowler or allrounder will have to step down.But who knows there could be a few more casualties after the Oval.?

I agree that ambrose is not up to the task of england wicketkeeper - i would like read to be brought in although the ICL issue would stop it happening. Second choice would be foster with davies as back up - definitively not prior who costs the side more in dropped catches and byes than he makes up for in extra runs

I don't agree with you about Ambrose Aggers. He just needs to get back to county cricket and score loads of runs for Warwickshire, which he will do, because hes a much better batsman than Foster who can't get runs in the 2nd division of the championship. Ambrose has done nothing wrong with the gloves and has stood up when its mattered with the bat for England. I hope he plays next week for Warwickshire against Essex, then we can see who the better player is out of Foster and Ambrose.

28

CC and Test Matches are different levels. Ronnie Irani averaged 40+ at first class level but didn't even look like getting half that at Test level or he would have played many more games for England.

If Essex feed Ambrose's back foot shots, he'll score plenty besides the pressure of batting for a county and England v Australia is miles apart.

Ntini gets a 5 for and gets no mention at all.

Nice one aggers, he says sarcastically.

Starting on the front foot with a century under his belt will do a world of good to the new England skipper. Congratulations to KP.




Dr. Cajetan Coelho

Yes but what did foster do for the England lions in the winter? Ambrose has a front foot game but hes lacking in confidence at the moment thats why I think he should play the last 5 games for Warwickshire and work out his technical problems. Select foster and I'm telling you we'll have the same argument this time next years about his lack of runs.

Read is the best wicket-keeper this Summer.

Sort it out Agnew and learn about the sport.

Ben Scott ?

hmm just out of interest, do u guys ever look at the pca mvp scores? i think they are a far better rating in performance than normal averages, but think both should be taken into account, thoughts?

infact both scores should be looked at combined with a slector looking at all the county games, altho that will never happen !!! im sure theres not enough selectors to go round ;/

England's batting is frail, the problem is that Strauss is in indifferent form, Bell and Cook have got into a habit of getting in, then getting out before making significant scores, and the middle order is vulnerable. Flintoff is not a Test six, never has been and never will be.

Flintoff (England)

no 4 : 1 inns, 75 runs @ 75.00
no 5 : 3 inns, 68 runs @ 34.00
no 6 : 60 inns, 1,806 runs @ 32.25
no 7 : 44 inns, 1,395 runs @ 33.21
no 8 : 5 inns, 89 runs @ 17.80

It may not be a huge number more runs at seven than six, but with a batsman at six then it gives the side a lot more strength of batting with an average of 33.21 at seven with the keeper at eight. If England were to stick with four bowlers then they could pick the better keeper and bat Flintoff at seven or eight depending on who the keeper is - two 'problems' solved with one easy fix.

Broad yet again is showing he's not ready for Test cricket, we are effectively playing four bowlers and a specialist 'ineffective bowler who can bat a bit' down the order - fantastic tactic that! Six, seven and eight managed a whopping 14 runs between them, Broad might as well not be playing so far as we'd probably have bowled them out for 30 less and have an extra 30+ runs from the extra batsman. If you pick your four best bowlers then you shouldn't need five, if the best four bowlers available can't bowl opponents out then you won't win many Tests with an extra one.


England are in a strong position, it is a shame the series is lost and not 0-1 or even 1-1, then we would see how much of this England upper hand is down to them playing the better cricket and how much is down to the game meaning a lot less. England have bowled well overall, bar Broad, and batted well in patches. But take away Pietersen's innings and there's next to nothing between the two sides. In the end it took a late order bash from Harmison to establish a sizeable lead, before he ran his partner out and himself out of a fifty

Predictably, the comments are moaning again, even though England are 122 runs ahead. OK it could be more, but it could be less. There are no teams on earth that get their top 7 batsmen to score 50 or 100 each, so why do we constantly expect all of ours to do that.

Strauss has scored the 2nd highest amount of runs by an English batsmen this summer. People are griping about Cook not performing when he chips in with 60s and 70s. If 4 more English batsmen had reached 20 we would be 200 ahead and well in command, so we shouldn't knock 20s and 30s as long as people are scoring 50+s every few innings.

Ambrose got a good ball, so did Flintoff - they could have played better shots, but that is the art of good bowling to tempt the batsmen - if our bowlers had bowled those balls we would be just praising our bowlers

Typical, when we are winning, its only cos the SA team aren't playing properly!

It seems Ambrose will have to go back to county cricket and work on his batting shortcomings although his keeping is tidy.

I agree that Prior's contribution with the bat would doubtless be negated by sloppy glovework but I'd give him another chance.
Alternatively, I would pick Read for the India tests and stuff the political consequences.

Incidentally, can someone tell me why a tour of India, that massive cricketing country, should now consist of only 2 Tests? Between 1951 and 1985 England made six 5-test tours and one 6-test tour there, as befits the place. Now it's on a level with a tour of Bangladesh!

Anyone seen Mendis for Sri Lanka recently? And that other chap - er - Murali down the other end?

Uh-oh....

@granitestephenmason hehe funny u should say we are all moaning,
when ur comments about us all moaning, are actually moans :) most comments here are vallid, my only real moan is the wicket keeper,
as i, and most people believe we need a wicket keeper that can bat a bit and has more than 1 shot in test cricket , sad , yeah but its true :(

Re: Simon Jones

I think he needs a full summer behind him.
He has been named in the 30 man one day squad for the Champions Trophy so that is a start.
There is a constant question mark about his fitness-even in the golden days of 2005 he only finished two tests out of five-and England cannot afford to have a bowler break down in a test.

It is a shame but it seems players like Plunkett, Mahmood etc will never step up to test class despite been given enough time to do so.

Joyce and Shah have gone off the boil this summer after years of good cricket.
Denly has had a poor season so why is he even getting mentioned?

The good pool of players over the years have not developed as we would wish.

So Aggers, you think KP is selfish when he gets out on 96 trying to go for glory, but not when his mind wonders on 102? Apart from a very artifical and mostly mental milestone there is only a 6 run difference in the scores, and as it happens in both matches his score was what gave England hope. If you thought last week was bad, you should be equally outraged this week, but you are not? Why? because you don't want to be seen to be picking on him? Becasue you want people to forget what you said about him being a bad choice as captain? Do you really think the public have memories as short as your international career?

There is very little difference in the batting display in this inning, and in the last test, the top 3 failed, KP and Coly saved the day (but scored less) the only difference was Harmison so why was that a miserable failure and this a great success? For all the press spin and the gushing reports it is obvious to anyone who cares to see that nothing has changed as far as the England batting problems is concerned, and why should it? there has been no change in batsmen! No matter how good KP is as a captain the team have the same shortcommings they had a week ago. And I expect them to be brutally exposed on the winter tour.

I would just like to state my outrage and disgust at Kevin Pietersen's slapdash innings. Gets himself in then gives his wicket away once the century is achieved, blah blah selfish, blah blah not a team player, blah blah not even a true englishman (talk to Simon Jones about that one).

Where've you gone all you vociferous curmudgeons who only a few days ago were straining every sinew to find fault with old KP?

The noise of the hush is deafening.

I agree that it has been another dissapointing effort. I think this wicket is better than the scores would suggest, and England could have been dismissed once again for less than 300. I thought Pieterson played beautifully for his hundred and Collingwood again did well. Other than Harmison, the rest will be pretty dissapointed that they didn't cash in. England could really have taken the game away from SA, but again didn't capitalise.

Worried about Strauss, and Ambrose is clearly not delivering. I like 5 bowlers, but we need runs from 6,7,8 which means that Broad should cement his place (his bowling will improve) and either Foster or frying pan hands Prior will need to replace Ambrose. Key is an obvious replacement for Strauss which still means no place for Bopara for the time being which is a shame.

Anderson is going from strength to strength and having been critical of Harmison, he did look rejuvinated and displayed the pace, accuracy and control that we haven't seen for years - lets judge him after a few tests.

We must press this advantage home and win the test, pity again we couldn't show the resolve to compete when it really mattered.

I want to see Rashid of Yorkshire given a chance - he can bat and is not as utterly incompetent as monty. Yes the crowd love monty. Yes he has top banter . But he has had his chance and isn't as penetrative as he used to be. Rashid deserves a go for being a much better all round cricketer.
Looks like KP is doing a good job of stirring his team but how long will it last? I think this may just be a honeymoon period before he loses both his form and care for the team. Still think Strauss would have been better. Also, those calling for Strauss to be dropped, have you not seen he is England's 2nd top run scorer this summer? He hasn't had a great series but is experienced and canny and deserves another chance...

Prior.....you have got to be kidding, runs yes, but could not catch a cold to save his life!
Got to be Foster and Davies of Worcester who has more catches and stumpings then any one else in both Divisions this season as well as a lot more runs than most!

I would also take 3 spinners ti India, Monty, Swann and rashid and save the Fast boys for the West Indies.

Would also consider Key and Denly to start making moves at the top of the order if cook and strauss dont stop the muppet show they are providing at the moment.

But please, no more prior, the guy is a joke behind the stumps, hence why sussex dont trust him with gloves!

@ 100notoutatnumber11 , hmm are u mental, we r playing in india on untried traks this time take 2 spinners and the rest pace/swing lol :)
im joking with u :)

I feel sorry for Ambrose, but he hasn't really looked up to the job. Why does Geraint Jones' name not come up in these discussions anymore? But I would take Foster and Prior to India and work it out from there. I acytually would like Read picked just because I think somehow the whole IPL/ICL thing has to be sorted out and that could at least bring it to a head.

As for the middle order and tail, well its hard. I would like to see Simon Jones back, as he was England's best bowler not called Andrew Flintoff in the 2005 Ashes, and has been taking wickets for Worcs all summer. But then who gets dropped? Leaving Broad out means missing his runs, and can we do without those? Anderson is bowling like a demon right now, Harmy has won me over so far. So its tough. Freddie should be at 6, and patience shown. Prior in at 7 maybe then Broad (for now), If you want 2 spinners in India maybe change Broad for Graeme Swann, but then Anderson, Harmison and Monty as the tail.

I think the top of the order is actually what exposes the middle orders problem. I am beginning to lose patience with Bell at the moment, save his big score at lords he really has had a pretty ordinary summer. And Strauss isn't a shoo-in for the 1st ashes test on my list either. And Cook needs to get some BIG scores. I am not confident about Colly at 5 as well. So basically save for KP the whole of the batting line up is under a question mark and needs to show itself deserving. And consistently, not just one bog score every now and again.

@ saintlymark sorry mate but the way prior is batting no way for 7, move him to 6 or even 5, freddie at 7or later, altho im not saying prior should be wikkie, i still cant decide over read, prior and foster they all have somthing to give;/

The Sorry Story of England's Batting...once again ian bell looks great, makes a start and then gets out cheaply. with the exception of the home series against new zealand, strauss has been woeful, boring to watch and completely shotless for 2 years now! collingwood looked scratchy but put in a gritty effort, and cook gifted his wicket as usual. ambrose is out of his depth, flintoff isn't test standard yet, and Broad who is the real only fluid and class looking player with the exception of the captain made 1 off 30 odd deliveries. once again pietersen saves us, thus has been the story since ashes 05, and now we've burdened him with the captiancy.

on the plus side it looks as if we've got a properly balanced bowling attack that could take 20 wickets anywhere, with past heroes such as jones and hoggard knocking on the door, to keep the selectors busy.

the best england side

Bell
Cook
Shah
Pietersen (c)
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Harmisson
Anderson
Panesar

hmm why are u all putting flintoff above prior ( not even say we should take prior( hes a good choice tho)) flintoff is clearly not a batsman yet where as prior is ;/

sorry i didnt mean all of u, just the last few posters :)

the reason i chose Prior 'manxspike' is because he averages 40.14 for england, averages 50 this year for sussex and is the 5th highest ranked batman for his county in the country! which is fundamental for england if we want to strengthen the batting line up and progress.

@ dotball-will hey mate i agree, u misunderstood my post, prior should bat above flintoff, freddie is a bowler atm , prior a batsman, its just that in ur earlier post u had freddie above prior in ur line up, sorry mate

Tread carefully England

600 runs at Lords and all and sundry had pencilled a 1-0 lead in the the series for England. A 281 final innings target for South Africa and the same sundry had pencilled a 1-1 series recovery by England.

It is good to debate the merits of the England side and who to drop and who to glorify but do not take your eye off the opposition. They may look jaded after their winter slumber and be not quite match fit, but they are quality, seasoned veterans.

Many have said that England need to pick top test standard players, but you need to cultivate them first. Are their any youth players coming through the ranks who meet the criteria? It would be interesting to hear from the academies.

Well batted Pietersen, Colly and Harmy.

also guys please check the pca mvp rankinks to seperate th men from the boys, last time i checked prior was well up there :)

hmm or spelling of rankings even ;/

Tim Ambrose has on occaision shown admirable fight and keeping skills for England. However, his lack of runs and inability to cope with the full ball will undoubtedly cost him his place in the side. Especially on subcontinent wickets his reliance on the cut shot will not bring him the success it brought him on bouncier New Zealand wickets. Matt Prior has shown for Sussex he is deserving of a recall and, with KP knowing and trusting him he will more than likely be recalled.

However, Prior was dropped because of wicket keeping mistakes. My concern is he will find it tough going when facing the fearsome bowling displayed at times today. Having said that he shouldnt be left out of the team because of what he might do wrong, and if he is indeed recalled then he knows he must perform well to keep players like Foster and Read out.

On a seperate note, if the batting frailities continue then change will be demanded. Wanting to bat at 3 Ian Bell needs to make himself irreplaceable. How far from that is he now?

Re: a Chris Read selection, I find it disappointing that India - and the other south Asian countries - seem to think it's one rule for them and another for everyone else. They're a disgrace to the game quite frankly.

@ benzs_s i agree, and would like to include chriss read because of this, :) he cant do any worse than ambrose for sure, but would still like to see prior and foster involved in the selection process haha :)

haha my mistake manxspike. apologies for this misunderstanding

Congratulations on the 100, KP. Disappointed not to see it turn into the big hundred that would have been very handy in the context of the game - but still a clear sign that the captaincy isn't going to alter his attacking batting style.

Still a lot of work to do in this test, but for the first time in the series I do feel like a win is likely for England.

Strauss had better pull a big score from somewhere in the second innings (if there is one - har de har), otherwise I think his place must be under threat. Let's see how the much talked-about return to Yorkshire goes, but I sincerely hope to see Michael Vaughan opening with Cook in the next series. If not, then Key has probably earned another chance.

England's Bowling OK to Good
England's Fielding OK
England's Batting. Problem

Four Batting types today

Fantastic KP,

Good Knocks: Colly, Harmy

Get ins/ Get outs: Cook, Bell, Anderson

No runners: Strauss, Flintoff, Ambrose, Monty, Broad

no worries mate, the only big issues i have is not including jones in a rotational bowling line up , a new keeper, and possibly repalacing strauss, i dont see that as absolutly needed tho, just the keeper , and any 1 of the best keepers will do, we can still play 5 bowlers then

Things were looking good around lunch-time today but then there was another calypso-collapso, as Blowers calls it, if I´m not mistaken. England have always been good at those.

This is not an easy batting track but the SA bowlers are not as well prepared as the English ones to exploit it fully, so it was disappointing to see so many of the English batsmen getting themselves out. I don't remember one of them falling to the unplayable ball. (What's more none of them were umpired out this time). KP was just as guilty as anyone though he played a real captain's innings and is to be heartily congratulated for leading the way again. He is a very special talent and has also done a pretty good job as captain in his first test.

It was sad to see Broad off-colour with the bat today but he has done a very good job with it up to now and we may have come to expect too much from him in that department. But he is not in the team, not yet at least, as an all-rounder. He will have to do much better with the ball if he is to keep bowlers like Jones out of the team. He had another good crop of wickets today.

There are still a few people belittling the importance of England's performance because the series has already been lost. It may be a "dead rubber" but, just as there are no free lunches, in no sport in the world are there "friendlies" any more, games where noone really cares who wins. The most insignificant and unneccesary games, such as play-offs for third and fourth places in World Cup football, are fought tooth and nail. One only had to see the reactions of the Saffers today when things started to go thier way again to remove any doubts on that count. They certainly don't want to go into the ODI series on the back of a defeat. They are just like the Aussies, they play to win every game.

This game is far from over and I hope that tomorrow produces a hard-fought victory for England. But some selection issues seem to be clarifying themselves. The first should be that Jimmy Anderson is a first-class seamer who, with just a little help from conditions, can be very destructive: I hope he has answered his doubters. The second is that Andrew Strauss is struggling to regain anything like his form of a few years ago. Whether this is just a question of form, I am not sure, but he doesn't deserve his place right now. Another is the future of Monty Panessar, which hasn't been seriously threatened for a long time, for example by giving someone else a chance for once. To my mind, he is far from being the automatic choice as spinner and, for upcoming test series, someone else, probably Rashid, should be given that chance.

I don't have to mention the issue of wicketkeeper. It is clear that, if if the gloveman is required by policy to score runs, Ambrose is not the man. He has not had a very good series and only if, in the second innings, he is called on to make a really big contribution and succeeds can he expect to be given another chance. There are enough of you proposing good alternatives for the selectors to know who we want to replace him, Read maybe.

The wicketkeeper role seems to be going through a crisis similar to that of the England goalkeeper. For a long time there were automatic choices and the people occupying the role were recognised as being among the best in the world. That time may come again: I hope so.

Tomorrow we just have to show the Saffers that the new regime, under KP, is a force to be reckoned with. Come on, England!

I may be alone (apart from Peter Moores) in this but is not in England best interest for Simon (Great Bowler always Injured) Jones to stay in county cricket for this season and not go on tour. Test cricket is a big jump from CC Division 2 and rushing him back into the test team surely will lead to another injury. Give him a chance to build stamina and work on his technique and then look at him early next year with the Ashes in mind.

Similarly I would leave Harmison and Flintoff at home instead of going to India - but that is another issue.

Also please pick Read, end this never ending argument so in a years time when he has a test average of 12 and his confidence behind the stumps is shattered (Fletcher said he had no backbone) we can finally all agree that wicket keeping is more about strength of character to forgot the dropped catches (everyone does) and that you have to score runs

"Would also consider Key and Denly to start making moves at the top of the order if cook and strauss dont stop the muppet show they are providing at the moment."

Cook and Strauss are looking like a solid partnership at the moment. Strauss is England's 2nd highest run scorer this calendar year (8th in the world), at an average of 42.38. Cook is not so far behind averaging 45.41. They have featured in 3 century opening stands so far this summer.

So to improve this the solution is to bring in Joe Denly who has played only 35 first class matches and averages 35? A lot of people mention is name but will he really be up to it just yet?

YES Jonathon and 3 of the 4 captains of England who scored centuries in their first appearance as captains were born in SOUTH AFRICA, Lamb, Strauss, and now Pietersen. Totally agree with you re: INDIA TELLING ENGLAND who they can select. If they do SA, AUS and ENGLAND should tell them were to go. Reminds me of the afrikaner and Basil DOliviera. NO ROOM FOR THAT NONSENSE. SA was wrong then and India would be just as wrong. If they are silly enough to do that please come to SA for your next series. We would all love that. Congrats to Pietersen, KZN told him he wasnt good enough. Come to think of it, they have told Rudolph pretty much the same thing. Harmison certainly has made a huge difference. Maybe he should open for England, as a bat, just kidding.

Choosing Pieterson was an excellent move and if nothing a captain should bring some luck to the team! But he has done more- went for an attacking team good bowling selections and a ton!
Strauss has shown by his performance so far that he is not in top form and so wouldn't have been the natural choice as captain.
Alistair Cook showed by his dropped catches and lack of runs that he may still be disappointed at not being chosen as captain. The best way for both him and Strauss to earn some respect is to get some runs as Collingwood has! So far their performance confirms the correct decision to make KP captain!

Monty Panesar.....why ? Poor bowling returns on turning pitches and on the final day of test matches. No runs in 3 innings. Easy catches dropped. Run outs, immature jumping all over team mates and over exaggerated appealing ...aaah loveable Monty.
Ridiculous loud cheers from the crowd when he comes out to bat or even picks the ball up off the ground. I am sorry but I would like to see England win test matches and not become a laughing stock.

A few last words before I falll into bed here in the tropics.

Trescothick is not going to come back into the team, much as we would like him to do so, as he is one of the most aggressive and successful opening batsmen England has had over the last years, and he is sorely missed.

I find it offensive that some people are atrributing his decision to opt out because of conflicts with Vaughan or anyone else in the England management. It is to accuse him of lying and to deny that he has a serious psychological problem, one that he has fought with over recent years and not yet been totally able to come to terms with.

Does anyone seriously think that he would not be delighted to come back and play for England, where he has had some of the most memorable moments in his career? Do you think that he doesn't follow what is going on in England's games and wish he could be there again?

He has chosen to continue playing for Somerset, where he is happy and doing an excellent job. So, please leave him in peace.

With all the talk of the batting line-up's supposed weakness, it's easy to forget that to win a Test match actually requires the ability to take 20 wickets. If Flintoff is moved down the order from 6 and a bowler is dropped in place of another specialist batsmen it is going to make it increasingly difficult for the bowling line-up to get the necessary 20 wickets.
Personally, I'd love to see KP used more with the ball (probably even more unlikely now that he's captain). Although his opportunities have been limited he undoubtedly has ability with the ball and additionally he seems to try and out-think batsmen when he bowls - this ability can be seen in his captaincy already (this sounds very simple, but so many bowlers seem not to do it!!).
Anyway, I wish KP all the best and congratulate him on his first ton as English captain, I hope the captaincy doesn't prevent him from playing with the flair that makes him so exciting to watch.

"It is fair to say that India would probably refuse to play against England with Read in the team"

Remember when the MCC picked Basil D'Oliveira to tour South Africa and they refused to let him in. The Tour was cancelled. The MCC would not stand for another country picking and choosing their team, nor should the ECB now. However, it is fair to say that the blazers now have rather less spine than they did back then. Also, they are in thrall to Indian money. It is therefore easy to see what the outcome will be - no Chris Read, no matter how theyspin it that he is not good enough. We all will know the real reason.

Read should not be considered for a test re-call. He joined the ICL because he decided that his test carear was over and did so knowing full well what the consequences would be for joining an "unauthorised" competition.

Dr Skroob

"It is fair to say that India would probably refuse to play against England with Read in the team."

Since it would be a test match (the ICC have not banned any ICL players) then clearly even Mr. Modi couldn't seriously support India refusing to play. I think you are getting a little dramatic with your speculation there aggers.

So, it isn't fair to say what you said. (I should add that I am appalled in general by the BCCI's interference in others teams' selection policies, for example, Kent.)

Fishingrhod: those of us who have serious reservations about KP's motivation and his current inability to play responsibly when the team desperately need it have certainly not gone away.

The problem is the endless gushing from the media over the appointment rather overshadows those who are far less enthusiastic.

The batting of the England team has been frail for a very long time and calypso collapso seems to date from way back.
The genius of Vaughan was to make what was often, man for man, a far inferior team to those they faced, look far better than they were and punch well above their weight. That's why he was the best captain England have ever had. It remains to be seen whether Pietersen can achieve the same. He has to be given his chance.

The forthcoming test series abroad will reveal a great deal more, I suspect, than this dead rubber.

Good blog Aggers!

I doubt however tho that following his however justified outburst against the ECB over pitches panel that Rob Key is likely to get a call anytime soon!

Without a shadow of a doubt we need a good keeper to spin in India so Foster needs to play, he has spent this summer keeping to Danish Kaneria and was amazing in 2020 semi - final! And he can bat a bit!

What we also need is another spinner, but one who can bat - yesterdays Harmy-thrash aside our tail seems to start at 6 now!!!

My team for India

Cook
Denly
Bell
KP
Colly
Bopara
Fred
Foster
Swann / Rashid / Udal even?
Anderson
Monty

Take Bob Key, Draco, Shah and Simon Jones too

Has nobody else got any doubts about Cook? His record seems to flatter to deceive as I think the majority of his innings finish between 20 and 60. He never has a poor run but the very occasional ton isn't enough of a conversion.

Also, the decision to drop Harmison in NZ and to restore him seems a good one, but shouldn't it have been done 2 tests ago? The Pattinson inclusion appears to have made a mess of what little progress England have made this year.

I'm staggered by the remark that India would not play England if Read were in the team.

It just confirms to me something that has been brewing in mind recently: cricket will eventually split in two.

There is already a split between 20/20 and longer forms of the game, already a split as regards Zimbabwe. These seem to run along the lines of Asia v. England, Australia, SA, NZ.

Once we get to the point of one country deciding which players shall be selected for another, it is the end.

Well, subject of course to what "Sir" Allen Stanford thinks, obviously...:-(

Personally I feel sorry for Paul Nixon. What did he do wrong?

Yes Tiny Tim, I'm afraid it's time to bid you farewell. James Foster (or Steve Davies/Mark Wallace) would do a better job behind the stumps, and contribute a lot more with the bat. The selectors have to make a decision - and stick to it!

As for the bowlers - Harmison has shown that he is STILL a world-class bowler when he puts his mind (and body) to it, and Anderson seems to have discovered a way to be more consistent. I am still of the opinion that Broad has to be persevered with - he may well end up as a batting all-rounder.

The batting continues to be singularly unimpressive. Strauss seems to have re-opened the box into which he put all the uncertainty and poor shot-selection in New Zealand. He once again doesn't inspire confidence. Bell has to learn that looking good for an hour is not acceptable. He has all the talent to succeed, but a No3 needs to be solid and reliable and a rock around which the rest of an innings is built.

We have but a few months to prepare for Australia. It's time to look at a series of options (something we should have done against New Zealand). My test squad would now be:

Cook
Denley
Key
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Foster (wk)
Broad
Sidebottom
S.Jones
Harmison
Anderson
Rashid
Panesar

nixon was too much of a personality for england but i used to love watching him play highly motivational towards the side and a quality keeper! I just want to go back to an earlier comment that said bopara could do a kallis role in the bowling department-what a rediculous thing to say there is no comparison between the 2 kallis is a quality bowler bopara a part time dibbler

Someone referred to the "deafening hush" from those who criticised Pietersen last week. I was one of those who did, so fair's fair, I'll break my "hush"..

There is a subtle difference between getting out with a predictable, unnecessary and gung ho shot for 6 aiming for the 100, and getting out to a careless shot in the vulnerable few balls after scoring a century.

However, the practical reality is that the difference was only 6 runs, and both scores were worthwhile contributions.

So far so good from Pietersen. A bit too much "I" and not enough "we" in his language, and a level of Tigger-like bouncing about that is probably unsustainable in the long term, but so far so good.

If Vaughan had been pushed (as seemed imminent) and Pietersen had been installed in his place, I would have been disgusted.

As it was, Vaughan jumped, and, for good or ill, Pietersen was the only realistic choice for replacement. So I'm happy to give KP a chance, and credit where it's due.

Let's judge him on results, not his accent.

First positive results: he appears to have got some good aggressive bowling and batting from the notoriously fragile Harmison; he appears to have Collingwood on side; the bowlers seem to be playing as a unit with pride.

No big changes yet in the problems with the batters, but one thing at a time. Strauss damned Pietersen's appointment with faint praise, and may not be entirely on board. He needs to go away and earn back his place in the side.

I thought Collingwood was supposed to be a bowler who could hold his own. That's what initially got him into the side, wasn't it?

England need to use their 'bits and pieces' players more. And then perhaps they would find out if they had hidden strengths. Bell, Pietersen, Collingwood, they all bowl. Vaughan should have bowled more.

There MUST be more players who can both bat and bowl, to make a balanced side. These players will never develop if they never bowl. And that's a problem with central contracts. These players are playing almost no cricket outside the international arena.

I am also beginning to wonder about Monty. I was a great fan, and he is a good bowler, but ........ He needs to be really devastating from time to time to merit inclusion. And is he that? I wasn't a great fan of Duncan Fletcher, but he might have been right on one or two things.

All very interesting.

Stats don't lie, but I don't think they always give a fair picture - was a wicket given away cheaply, or was the batter beaten by a perfect ball ? How many times was he dropped?

Likewise with bowling - I can remember several occasions when a bowlers figures have looked very tasty, but on closer inspection, the wickets included mostly tail-enders. Stat's don't tell the whole truth.

I think 'instinct' has to take some part in the process. If we just obsessed about figures, we'd be American.

The most 'solid' looking opening pair I can remember in recent years was Trescothick and Strauss. I agree with the sentiment that removing Strauss would be harsh based on this summer - but for a while now, I've had this feeling that Cook is a little bit lightweight.

Whether Trescothick would play again is questionable, and we obviously can't have a travel-shy batter in the team part time. So, based purely on the fact Tresco isn't going to come in, I think giving Key a crack would be a good choice.

Bell continues to frustrate, but I do think he has the talent, he just needs to develop the bottle. Someone send the man on a self-confidence course, for god's sake!

I would like to see Shah in the fold too - and Davies as WK.

Also agree with Monty needing to improve his cricket back in the county game.

My lineup would be:

1. Strauss
2. Key
3. Bell
4. Pietersen (c)
5. Shah
6. Davies (wk)
7. Flintoff
8. Anderson
9. Harmison
10. Rashid


I did find it strange that nobody was talking about Sidebottom... but couldnt find space for him in my team either, strangely.

Rest of the squad would have to be : Sidebottom,Jones,Broad,Cook, and Panesar.

I certainly was not one of the people calling the decision to make Pietersen captain stupid. I have been commenting for the last year that he should be given an opportunity to lead, that he had the intelligence for the job and that it might enhance his own game.

Jonathan did point out that many would say he should have gone on and scored a big ton and certainly some did say that. Of his 14 centuries only 4 times has he failed to do that, so like all the KPs stats they stack up well. For some though I guess it is not enough

I must listen to different press conferences and interviews because I don't here too many 'Is' in his interviews and certainly not yesterday.

With regard to the captaincy its early days. However if he made the decision to let Anderson have the first over then that was a great captaincy decision. Smith would have been expecting Harminson to open the attack and was probably prepared for a barrage of aggression but he was undone by the subtle swing of James Anderson. Fantastic play.

Is Stephan Moore qualified to play for England?

Yes, our batting seems to be the weak link again. I feel that all to often we depend upon one of the top five to get a big score. Again, KP came to the fore.

The bowling attack looked a lot more convincing though. Nice to see Harmison bowling as he did and that cameo with the bat may just challenge Flintoff for the all-rounder slot (sic)! However, I do think that having two attacking bowlers such as Flintoff and Harmison allows for the load to be shared more whilst enabling pressure to be maintained.

The wicket keeping debate rambles on. The Read supporters won't seem to let go of there case for him to be the wicket keeper. Read has had a couple of chances now and there must have been god rationale to recall him and then drop him again. I don't seem to remember the reasons though. Perhaps someone could help out on that one.

I think the wicket keeping slot might be a bit of a poisoned chalice for anyone who steps into the position these days. So intense is the scrutiny on the player that the pressure of the scrutiny itself would either cause the player to under perform or just simply not want the position in the first place. I wonder then if anyone who debates the wicket keeping issue actually stops to think about which players actually want the job given all the criticism.

In my view and sadly, the current image of Indian cricket is causing a lot of cricket followers concern. The antics of Indian players in recent times, the perception that the Indian cricket board can decide who can and can't play in another country's national side simply presents an image of political bullying and , frankly, spoiled immature superstars. I think that many would agree that we would prefer cricketers to be upstanding role models and that the game has integrity, unlike some other sports that dominate the winter months.

This question of will Chris Read be allowed to play in India if picked for the England side is one that is causing great concern. The implication that, should Chris Read be banned from playing, this could have may indeed have a ramification that affects cricket globally. What if Chris Read were Australian or West Indian? What happens to other players from different countries who are in a similar position? Is the cricketing world now handing carte blanche over to the BCCI to decide who can and cannot play?

All sorts of things come to mind including the possible issue of human rights. I think this matter needs to be fully investigated and resolved with some urgency, even by legal means if necessary, to provide assurance that this concern is unfounded. I am not a Chris Read supporter by any means, being a Man of Kent, however I say pick Chris Read and challenge the legality of any refusal to allow him to play.

It's easy to captain when things are going well, let's pass judgement after a few tough days.

Personally, I would find it extremely annoying as an experienced test cricketer to have KP constantly holding me, hugging me, patting me on the "backside", etc. And every second sentence is about him, "I appointed Freddie at 6", "I selected Harmy in the team", etc. A bit more tact and diplomacy would not go amiss, perhaps he'll learn this one day.

If he's still captain in a year or two, I predict he'll look back on some of this with embarrassment, a bit like the 2005 "skunk" hairdo now.

A small point, but can we PLEASE, PLEASE stop referring to batters. Batters play baseball, BATSMEN play cricket!
Why and how has this term crept into cricketing usage?

#92 - I blame Duncan Fletcher! All the SA and England players he worked with soon started referring to "batters", and still do. Could be a coincidence, but don't remember it being widely used before then.

I don't understand why people are surprised at the South Africans performance.
.
They're obviously pleased to see one of their own countrymen in charge of the Brits and will let him win this meaningless Test - they've won the rubber, end of story.

So, has Prior been dropping loads of catches for Sussex? That's the only reason that Prior would remain out of the Test side. So, has he? I don't know as i don't get to see county cricket.

The way to resolve this is for ECB to take Chris Read to India and say they intend to play him; and also encourage all England players to a few ICL, earn a bit; then Indian BCCI will have to say they can't play money spinning Test series against England as most of their players are renegades.

This would expose how silly the BCCI edict is; and abusive to the cricket globally.

aggers when india come here in a couple of years we should not give them a lords test or odi send them zig zaging across the lesser grounds in the country see how they like it show some balls ecb

Wicket keeping

James Foster choose as the best gloveman who chips in 20-30 runs an innings. To bat at 7

Matt Prior if you want at WktK No6 scoring 50's, odd centuries; with the acceptance he might put 1-2 catches per match. Is it easier for a gloveman like Prior/Gilchrist to work of improving cutting out dropped catches?

Compromise. Chris Read

I think the rules should be changed on the following matter. Currently, if the stumps are thrown down by a run out attempt and the ball then diverts to the boundary, 4 ' overthrows' are credited to the batting side. This isn't fair and penalizes a good throw. Fair enough if the ball misses the stumps and then goes to the boundary. It is then the fielding side's fault for not backing up.

some figures for cc wicket keepers-

mustard- average 20.92, high score92, catches43, 1 stumping

jones - average 24.4, high score 53, catches, 47 catches , 2 stumpings

read - average 36, high score 142, catches 37, 2 stumpings

prior- average 54.85, high score 133 (3 centuries scored) , 27 catches, 0 stumpings

davies - average 37.21, high score 99 , catches 51, stumpings 0

nixon - average 50.75, high score 92, catches 31, 1 stumping

foster- average 32.46, high score 88, catches 37, 1 stumping

as u can see we have no shortage of quality keeper/batsmen , batsmen/keepers

so lets pick one pls!!! i like them all really, they all have strenghts and all have somthing to offer, tim needs to go back to his county for a bit