Luiz shows Man City the way forward

What interests me is that a player that cost £50 million has been so poor (in terms of goalscoring anyway). Certainly he has not been in form for well over a year, going back to before the last world cup. I know people were saying that he was lacking fitness as he had been injured but surely that cannot still be the case. You could just see how frustrated Abramovich was when Torres was substituted against Man City. At least he can be happy with how one of Chelsea's signings (Luiz) has performed.

So far Luiz looks like the best January buy of them all, no doubt about that. Add in the length of time it usually takes overseas players to adapt to the EPL (e.g. Vidic and Evra) and he looks even more impressive, despite the Sideshow Bob hair. I feel Chelsea's winter slump has probably left them too much to do this season (fortunately so, speaking as a United fan) but he could really make a big difference to Chelsea putting up a strong challenge in 2011/12.

Believe me it IS frustrating as a City fan to watch us, then it always has been. But this season has shown more evidence of the team gelling together than last season - Silva, IMO our best player this campaign, is improving with every game - and Dzeko offers something different and does show brief world class glimpses of his potential, he too is improving.

Balotelli is a volatile character and his attitude stinks, but then if you watch him during a game there are moments when you can really see the talent he could be....but £20+million shouldn't buy you moments. If Mancini can't sort his attitude out then he has to go, he's not helping the team.

I think we'll be alright, a final push should guarantee us Champions League football and if we can manage an FA Cup win to boot, that's definitely something I'd have taken at the start of the season. ;)

I think one of the reasons for Chelsea's problems this season was the sale of Carvalho to Real Madrid. IMO it was him more than Terry who held the Chelsea defence together and they have missed him. Its only early but it appears as though Luiz could be the replacement for Carvalho. I agree with post #2 that he could be the signing of the transfer window, although I would also say that Suarez at Liverpool has started brightly too. Normally it takes time to adapt to the EPL but these two have started very well indeed. Will be interesting to see if they can continue.

With regard to Torres, it seems more and more that he just isn't his old self and questions have to be asked whether he'll ever get back to the level he showed at Liverpool before the WC. He definitely doesn't look like a £50 million striker, and ironically, its only his price tag keeping him in the team atm. Chelsea are desperate for him to come good. I would say he reminds me a bit of Michael Owen. Was excellent up until his mid-twenties, but then got a few niggling muscle injuries, and lost a yard of pace and was never quite the same player. He still gets goals but can't be relied on like he used to be. I worry whether Torres may be going the same way after similat muscle injuries. I hope not and only time wil tell.

Luiz is well on the way to being proven the best buy of the January transfer window along with Suarez. But I can't understand what City were really expecting out of this game. Is it only me who things that in Barry, Jong and Yaya Toure they had 3 players in midfield who have been holding midfieldeers in their previous clubs?

The contrast between Luiz and Balotelli is massive, when you think they cost, more or less, the same money. Balotelli is a clear liability for City and the quicker they offload him, the better off they'll be. Perhaps he'll go with Mancini at the end of the season.

Yesterday, Chelsea looked like they're back while City showed they're a step away from disaster.

David Luiz was a great signing and he is going to be one of the best centre backs in the future. He and Neven Subotić of Dortmund would be a dream centre back pairing for Chelsea for the future. Also glad we play Ivanovic at right back instead of Bosingwa we look more secure.

On the Torres signing i think it will turn out to be a good move as it brings a world class striker to the team who will push Drogba, Anelka and Kalou to improve their form if they want to start for Chelsea. I think the presence of decent strikers will also help Torres regain his form as his only competition at Liverpool was Ngog!

Chelsea has always played well in the 4-3-3 formation but the only problem with the current team is that only drogba or torres can play in the formation not both of them.

As a Chelsea fan, Luiz has been a great signing for us. Not just because of his performances, but the way he plays exudes confidence and enthusiasm which was maybe lacking in an ageing side. For this season, you have to be realistic and say that the top of 4, maybe top 2 would be the best we can hope for, and the CL is going to be very difficult as getting past united will be hard enough.

As for next season, the defence seems solid, we need a creative midfielder, a winger and go back to 4-3-3. Ancelotti and Drogba will probably go, so should be an interesting summer.

Am I the only person that can see that the movement Torres has given an ageing frontline has created the goalscoring opportunities for his teamates? Lampards 2nd goal at Blackpool & the space he created for Kalou to move into for the penalty are prime examples.If Kalou could play with his head up then Torres would of had opportunities yesterday himself!

Luckily for us at Utd, Luiz can't play in the C/L!

Good buy, definitely, but none of Dzeko,Torres or Balotelli are.

Wayne Rooney is just about returning to his best a whole year after injury-is that Torres' problem, too? He just doesn't seem to trust his body to do the business these days?

Balotelli has immense talent for sure, but is the sort who believes in it in the wrong way-will go the same way as Cassano, if he's not careful.


Dzeko doesn't look worth 27p at present, which is surprising, as his scoring form at Wolfsburg clearly showed he wasn't a one-season wonder. They may need to change the system entirely if he does show the potential to be a man they can build a team round, but there's not much sign of that so far.


Glad we picked up Chicarito when we did!

luiz does look like a fantastic buy, no doubt about it. however, city just dont look to me like a top 2 team. without tevez they look lethargic and uninspiring (silva maybe apart). mancini likes playing de jong, barry and yaya toure all together--how defensive is that? i know toure has scored some goals but realistically they need a player who can link the midfielder and the forwards. toure is not that player, neither is silva who is more suitable on the wings.

this is the problem when you have an ultra-defensive manager like mancini. spurs for 4th spot again.

I have really enjoyed David Luiz, never heard of him until he signed for Chelsea but he seems quite cultured and as cool as a cucumber but he needs a haircut. as for the Spaniard, I am sure a coach of CA's calibre will be able to get him firing again in some capacity. I was kinda hoping chelsea's bad run continued as I know someone who is Chelsea mad, and he never stops going on about them.

As a Man United fan I am very happy that Luiz is not eligible to play in the Champions League against us. No point in me harping on about his tackles against us in the league, the ref got it wrong and we have already moved on. He does look like a fantastic signing for Chelsea. Good luck to him.

Well, firstly, I very much enjoyed watching the match yesterday and I think the result is more significant that the three points themselves.

Luiz has been fantastic but I think some credit should be given to Lampard and Essien in midfield as well as Ramires who has got better as the game went on.

Really, I think Chelsea put in a pretty good performance in most positions yesterday.

As for those that think Chelsea have struggled without Carvalho, I think they are just clutching at straws to have a dig at Terry. Chelsea have had pretty much the best defence all season i.e. before Luiz turned up. Also, Chelsea were fine defensively last season and Carvalho didn't play much at all.

As for Man City, it does seem to be as simple as them playing too deep which means it takes longer to get up the pitch and support the front players(s) when in possession. By the time that happens, Chelsea were back in position and our midfielders were getting the tackles in.

Can Chelsea win the league? Absolutely yes. Will they? Well, the odds are against them so it seems less likely, but, who know's what can happen.

He's just a natural footballer and makes Terry look pedestrian, although Terry played well yesterday. City are the most boring team after Birmingham and the manager has to shoulder the responsibility.
Whilst I know any post match analysis brings up poor refereeing decisions and bad tackles is it time United simply accepted that sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Holden's injury looks worse than Nani's and yet Carragher was the most evil footballer ever to pull on a shirt a couple of weeks ago. We are all fed up of Ferguson, even I suspect, some United fans.
Luiz can't play in the CL and that is a shame but United are frightened of only one team............Chelsea

#14 rufus_smalls

Whilst I know any post match analysis brings up poor refereeing decisions and bad tackles is it time United simply accepted that sometimes you win sometimes you lose
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I didn't see the post match interviews after the Sunderland v Liverpool game, but I wonder if Bruce was as jokey and circumspect yesterday, given the award of Liverpool's penalty, as he was after a couple of decisions went Sunderland's way against Arsenal a couple of weeks back.

Humility and class?

Luiz looks a fine buy. Some players settle right in and some take longer to adjust (if at all) but he looks right at home already. As a City fan it's frustrating to watch our own players struggle for form (Kolarov was abysmal on Sunday - how many passes went astray?) and I don't accept tiredness as an excuse (they should try working a proper job). Mancini has been complaining for weeks now about the schedule but suddenly it looks a lot clearer than he (or I) would probably want it to - maybe he'll think twice if he's lucky enough to be in the same position again next season. As for City's tactics I think 2 goals in 7 games against the other "top 5" sides speaks for itself - I'm starting to yearn for the good old days when we had hope in abundance but no money rather than money in abundance and......

Oh and sorry to harp on but Ramires!. I thought he was really struggling but Ancelotti obviously knew how good he was. He looks very good now. Also I think Drogba still has a lot to offer. Coming on as a sub seems to suit him. As he's got older he's matured and what defender after 60-70 minutes wants Drogba to suddenly appear in front of him. Could be a great tactic.

Against the "bigger" teams City always seem to lack self-belief, and play to try avoid defeat rather than to try win.

They may have the biggest budget and biggest "name" squad, but their mindset is still that of a "small" club who have achieved little success.

Until they actually BELIEVE that they BELONG at the top, and it is their rightful place, they will continue to TRY get to the top and fall short.

That is why United are not too worried about their "noisy neighbours".

As a Liverpool fan, it is funny to see Torres failing badly, But Luiz is a top talent, gutted he cant play against utd in the CL, He played brilliant yesterday, city were awful as well/

Incidentally, I notice (not necessarily here but in general elsewhere) that Abramovich is credited/blamed for Torres coming to Chelsea. People say that the owner shouldn't buy players above the managers head.

Regardless of whether that's true or not, if Abramovich is to take the blame for Torres, does he also get the credit for bringing in Luiz?

I believe Luiz added dimensions to Chelsea. Now they have defensive options when defenders are injured. Ivanovich can play as a full back, without having to cover in central defence. Take Cole out (though rarely injured) and you have Zhircov who can play at left back. Take Ivanovich out and you have Bosingua and Fernandez on the right back. Terry, Alex, Luiz and Ivanovich available for central defence when injuries crip in the team. Add to this that Terry, Alex, Luiz, Ivanovich and Cole can score goals and you have a first class defence. Wenger, are you watching?

On the wake of Luiz and Suarez, the finger is pointed at Man City and the question is: with all the money you have, are you really capable of making signings that will move your team forward? Dzeko seems to be another average, slow, tall striker who doesn't really justify the price tag. Balotelli, with that sort of antics is a liability rather than a plus to their attack. I think City need a singing and that is a manager rather than a player. With all this financial wealth, all they seem to try, when facing strong opposition, is catenaccio. The defeat served them right yesterday.

On another note, I could strangely argue that it is good for my team (United) that Suarez and Luiz arrived at the premiership. Chelsea will be stronger next season, while Liverpool will be there or there about when it comes to top four. If they need an indicator of transfers are needed to help move forward, playing attractive football, you couldn't have better examples.

I'm wondering what Arsenal supporters make out of all this. It could be easily argued that their team is in a slump and on the way to another trophiless season. With Chelsea definitely stronger next season, United likely to invest, City definitely going to invest, Spurs with cash to invest and Liverpool already investing, where do they see their team going?

Luiz has been an excellent buy but Torres has not justified the outlay on him by any means - Drogba is a far better attacking option for Chelsea. This match was City's opportunity to really grasp 3rd place and like all their high-pressure games this season they have failed to do so.

I think they will be beaten at Wembley next month as well as there is a fragility there that is exploitable.

17. At 12:16pm on 21 Mar 2011, rufus_smalls wrote:
Oh and sorry to harp on but Ramires!. I thought he was really struggling but Ancelotti obviously knew how good he was. He looks very good now. Also I think Drogba still has a lot to offer. Coming on as a sub seems to suit him. As he's got older he's matured and what defender after 60-70 minutes wants Drogba to suddenly appear in front of him. Could be a great tactic.

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You can't really say that based on that one goal though... Take no credit away, that was an amazing goal and I had no idea Ramires had it in him but until he starts showing up regularly I'm going to keep hold of the opinion that he's just too quiet for the time being. Saying that, I don't think you necessarily have to be 'seen' all the time to prove your worth. Ramires could be Chelsea's Carrick - you might not notice him a lot but he does an awful lot of work around the pitch to keep the midfield tidy.

Drogba however, who knows why you've stopped playing him and bought Torres... It's ruined a brilliant striker. I hate Drogba but that's because he was good! Bringing Torres in seems to have stopped Drogba performing. Despite what anyone says, players don't go from everything to nothing in 1 season - they're both brilliant players, you just have to wait for them to get out of this trough. Although, as a United fan, I don't mind that not happening for a while...

People having subtle digs at Terry are wide of the mark. He's been one of our better players the last 18 months and it's not defensively where we have been lacking this season. Year after year we have the best defensive record in the Prem (only Utd ever come close to rivalling us defensively), and it's Terry who is the mainstay. No matter who is partnering him - Carvalho, Alex or Luiz, we're always sure at the back.

Where we have really been lacking recently is up front. Anelka/Drogba/Torres/Malouda have scored something like 2 goals between them in the last 7 games & it's our midfield that has been dragging us through the games recently. Sooner or later ONE of them has to hit form. Let's just hope it comes in time for the Utd tie.

Torres will come good; his performances have actually been pretty decent aside from his goal drought. Luiz has been excellent, better than i could of ever expected. He's a fantastic athlete and compliments Terry really well too.

20. At 12:24pm on 21 Mar 2011, MrBlueBurns wrote:
Incidentally, I notice (not necessarily here but in general elsewhere) that Abramovich is credited/blamed for Torres coming to Chelsea. People say that the owner shouldn't buy players above the managers head.

Regardless of whether that's true or not, if Abramovich is to take the blame for Torres, does he also get the credit for bringing in Luiz?

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Depends whether it was Abramovich or Ancelotti that chose Luiz doesn't it... I thought Luiz was Ancelotti's purchase (hence the brilliance) but Torres certainly has Abramovich's stamp all over him. Schevchenko in disguise?

#25 areagle0000

I think what I'm suggesting is that there is probably little proof for either, but people make their decisions based on what they want the position to be, rather than what it actually is.

#24 Chelseafan201

Terry has been the only constant for donkey's years now and yet STILL people seem to think it is whoever partners him that is better.

#22 PetShopBoys_Forever

Actually, Sturridge might have been the best attacking option but Ancelotti rarely used him, even when we were really struggling to score before Christmas. One of the few mistakes by Ancelotti in my opinion.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

as a Chelsea fan should i be saying "We can still win the EPL"? Or maybe "What a game they kept my heart racing the whole time"? Or should i just say "Thanks Benfica for the players and goals"?

When Chelsea up the tempo they look terrific. When they play at a slow pace, they are utterly predictable. When the play is slow Torres will suffer as they become easier to snuff out. This is particularly so because they play without out and out wide players. Love Luiz; Torres will be a great signing once his confidence fully returns. However, please do not go into next season without replacing Anelka; Kalou and Malouda!!

@ 14 - that last line is complete tosh...we're also frightened of Barcelona! That said, I think we've got more than a chance against Chelsea, we were unlucky in the league against you. If we could get Vidic back sooner rather than later that would ease my concerns as well.

many good comments here I just put into perspective a couple of things:

1. I understand why English people and press are worshipping Rio and JT but let's admit Carvalho and Vidic were always the better defenders both their knowledge and intelligence are better then their English partners - I've always had the feeling they were the real leaders not the other ones.

2. Dzeko -although he hasn't received as many games as Torres I see both of them a flop this season. I do not know where I hard but as far as I know it was Steve McLaren who said that even with his injury Demba Ba is a much better player than Dzeko, but City needed the more expensive one.:-)

3. as an Arsenal fan I am glad that we are the (almost) only team not to have to play w Chelsea this year. I find it very hard to win the PL even this year but next year MU and Chelsea will be much more above us if Wenger doesn't buy 2-3 players (GK, CD, DM at least) and keep Fabregas...

areagle0000 - No the goal was good but, Ramires works very hard and he's coming to terms with the strength needed. All fans like a hard worker and that's why Malouda and Anelka get stick. Anelka floats around like he's got all day. I think he must be easily distracted by thoughts of swallows flying overhead.
You're right though, some players you don't notice are often very effective.

I think it is late for Chelsea to win the title. When I read Ancelotti's statement that Chelsea have to win their matches and wait and see, my mind went only in ensuring that catastrophic accidents won't happen. With Vidic back, going to the Emirates in the state Arsenal are, I really don't feel worried as a United fan.

I wouldn't by any means say that the title is in our hands, as every match becomes difficult in the run in but it must be some terrible finish to the season for both United and Arsenal for Chelsea to have a chance. If United lose at the Emirates it is to Arsenal's gain rather than Chelsea's. If United win there, it should be curtains.

The 'Tale of Two Luis' (David and Suarez) have put the myth that players bought from overseas tend to take time to adapt to the PL to bed. Compare them (and I hate to go over the same ground) Torres - an established PL player - and the difference is huge. Luiz and Suarez have brought their superb form and ability to England with them, whereas Torres has brought his sluggishness and underconfidence about 200 miles down south to Chelsea. Two of the best January transfers we have seen for a long time.

31 noblefighter

many good comments here I just put into perspective a couple of things:

1. I understand why English people and press are worshipping Rio and JT but let's admit Carvalho and Vidic were always the better defenders both their knowledge and intelligence are better then their English partners - I've always had the feeling they were the real leaders not the other ones.
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Is there anything that gives your opinion more credibility than mine?

I have no axe to grind with Carvalho as he was a fine servant to Chelsea.

However, he only made 28 appearances last season (league 22) compared to Terry with 51 (league 37) and Chelsea had the second best defence.

This season, Terry has made 25 league apperances (out of a possible 29) and he has played with Ivanovic, Alex and Luiz (and Bruma once) and Chelsea have the best defence in the league.

Now, nothing is quite a black and white as raw statistics but surely what there is is quite indicative of very valuable, consistent contributions from Terry isn't it?

#33 Football_UK

And a draw? :-)

@ 36 MrBlueBurns,

with a draw, we'd keep the difference with Arsenal in tact and you'd need to beat us at Old Trafford and still waiting for another draw, while winning every single game. Chelsea are looking strong again but you failed to score against Copenhagen at home, just last week. I think it's too tall an order. Arsenal are infamous for total collapses at the end of the season. United aren't. :)

#37 Football_UK

Indeed! I remember how Arsenal fared with their 'easy' run in last season. Also, I remember when Hiddink came on board two years ago, I think we won all bar Spurs away and STILL it wasn't enough.

It's nice to be in it though, given our form earlier in the season.

@Mr. BlurBurns...
Steve Bruce took the decision rather well inspite of the hyped headine that he was furious. Also I agree that that Terry gets a hammering on all sides by fans saying how rubbish he is. It's funny how no player/ex-player ever says that. For me he is a great defender and I'm a Liverpool fan.

@mpk87... It's also funny how when Torres first came to the premiership he adapted immediately but now he needs time....????

Someone mentioned previously how Chelsea and Manu had the best defence the last few year(s), who would believe that Liverpool had the 3rd best defensive record last year.

As for City... I would love to see a midfield of Silva and Johnson on the wings, with Toure and DeJong in the middle and Dzeko and Tevez up front. Play this for a few games and I'm sure they'd do better.

35. At 12:57du. on 21st márc. 2011, MrBlueBurns wrote:

31 noblefighter

many good comments here I just put into perspective a couple of things:

1. I understand why English people and press are worshipping Rio and JT but let's admit Carvalho and Vidic were always the better defenders both their knowledge and intelligence are better then their English partners - I've always had the feeling they were the real leaders not the other ones.
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Is there anything that gives your opinion more credibility than mine?

I have no axe to grind with Carvalho as he was a fine servant to Chelsea.

However, he only made 28 appearances last season (league 22) compared to Terry with 51 (league 37) and Chelsea had the second best defence.

This season, Terry has made 25 league apperances (out of a possible 29) and he has played with Ivanovic, Alex and Luiz (and Bruma once) and Chelsea have the best defence in the league.

Now, nothing is quite a black and white as raw statistics but surely what there is is quite indicative of very valuable, consistent contributions from Terry isn't it?
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please check all the years how many goals were there when Terry was out and how many when Carvalho. picking one year together doesn't make a satistics complete. start with the Mourinho era for example. you can even compare the "before Carvalho" era w the Carvalho era (as Terry already was there)...

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

#35 MrBlueBurns

Chelsea may have the best defensive record all season, but during your bad spell it was the defence as much as your attack who struggled. They were ripped apart by sunderland and Aston Villa, and even after getting back to 3-2 up in that one your defence were nowhere when the equaliser went in. Chelsea are always likely to have a good defensive record because they dominate games and rarely have many attacks against them. When you werent dominating game your defence showed how poor it could be.

Terry is obviously a very good player, but i think I don't think he's ever been great. Like Carragher at Liverpool, they've both been made to look better than they are because of their never say die attitude and love of the clubs they play for. It gives fans rose tinted spectacles because they love someone who gives their all. When it actually coems to being a defender, Carvalho is better, but Terry makes up for his slightly lower ability by always putting his body on the line. His excellent head-first dive to stop the ball for England at the WC exemplifies what JT is all about.

He's a really good defender, but Chelsea need a cleverer defender alongside him, like Carvalho or Luiz, to make the most of situations.

As a man utd supporter rooney has been getting similar criticism to torres all season. Admittedly torres has not played to his full potential but id be surprised if any chelsea supporter isnt happy to have him in the team even if they spent 50 million. It does take time for any player to adapt to any team and he is a proved world-class goalscorer, its only a matter of time before he gains some kind of form again. If you were to draw up a list of the top ten strikers, regardless of form torres would arguably be in their. I'd also point out that chelsea midfield is still lacking creative talent or even width, sure torres isnt playing well but it is well known he feeds of balls in behind aswell as being good with his head, malouda crossing is woeful, lampard is more of an attacker than creator, when torres was at his best it was mainly down to the form and passing ability of gerrard, maybe chelsea need a midfielder in this mould.

Just to add on David (Luiz) that he has started for Senior Brazil in every match with Meneses as manager.

Concerning Ramires, he's an excellent player (another Brazil starter). Chelsea certainly did not sign him for his amazing strength, after all they've got Mickel, Essien. They've got him for his mobility and pace, which he's got loads of.

#robguima
why exactly is ramires an excellent player? i have seen nothing from him apart from a good goal at the weekend. Also what do you actually think his best position is?

@ 38 MrBlueBurns,

You may live to regret that recent defeat by Liverpool at Stamford Bridge. Had you won it, the difference would now be 6 points, with a game in hand - a win at Old Trafford would have put you in pole position.

I don't know if you studied the remainder of the fixtures, but we play you right after going to the Emirates. In the mean time we'll both have got sick of the site of each other, having had 2 more games for the Champions League. Logic says if we win there, your team will believe less that you can do it and United will have full confidence.

Of course it's all iff's and but's, however I don't worry really about going to the Emirates. Valencia and Nani on the flanks are big assets for us. By 1st of May will both be flying (if no new injuries crip in). Rooney started playing really well and, while he doesn't score heavily, he opens the way for Chicarito, while Berbatov got us out of jail on Saturday - he's having a very good season.

On the other hand, we saw Smalling being our rock in defence, on Saturday - who would believe we'd say that at the start of the season. With Vidic back, the improvement Smalling had has sweetened the absense of Ferdinand. When thinking of the spirit of Arsenal defence, I can only assume they will feel scared when Rooney, Chicarito (or Berbatov), Valencia and Nani counter attack speedily. It should be home truths for Arsenal. They had an escape at the Emirates when they faced you. You were vividly well below par at the time.

#40 noblefighter

We could go back as far as Terry's debut if you like, but things that happened a good time ago aren't as relevant to the here and now as things that happened more recently.

It adds nothing to your opinion and seeing as you haven't said where my more recent statistics lead to a wrong conclusion on my part, nothing you have said sways me from what I originally said.

#42 LeeTUFC

The late equaliser against Villa was the absolute pinnacle of bad play. However, during Chelsea's lean period the only really bad results were Sunderland at home (we lost 3-0) and Arsenal away (we lost 3-1).

Villa was a right rick but not taking an extra two points against Spurs and Fulham away, and losing 1-0 at Birmingham (despite being utterly dominant) are just as key to where Chelsea find themselves right now. And in those games, we conceded two goals in total.

Luiz rightly deserves all the plaudits but as Mr Blue Burns says, the England captain, JT has been excellent all season and makes up for lack of pace (although he's not as slow as many make out) by great reading of the game and anticipation. JT's distribution and abilty to play the ball out of defence is not too shabby either. In the last two seasons we've also seen him make occasional sorties down the wing, dribbling past players. Luiz may be the new kid on the block but JT and Ivanovic's contributions this season have also been very good.

Ramires also deserves a lot of paraise. He has been one our best players for the past 10 or so games , bags of pace, always gives 100%, gets stuck in, never stops running and has a bit of skill with it, as yesteday's goal showed. If he could have adapted as quickly as Luiz I think we'd still be top of the league.

@39 mac_knife

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? True what you say that Torres settled very quickly at Liverpool, so why not at Chelsea? If it was the other way around then at least at Liverpool he would have had the old 'it takes time to adapt' line to hide behind. Chelsea paid a huge fee for this player because of his proven track record, hoping that as an established PL player the risk is minimal when compared to when Liverpool signed him from Atletico Madrid.

#45, "for his mobility and pace"

This is his first season for Chelsea (and in EPL), and at 23, he's not really that experienced. He's currently a starter for Brazil and has consistently played well when called up.

I have seen a few (certainly more than a couple) of solid performances for Chelsea as well. Again, for his first season, I think he'd doing very well.

Chelsea still lack strength in depth up front; they will need to sign (at least) another forward in the summer.

I believe that, once again, Mancini has got his tactics wrong in a big away game. Too often, Man City have seemed willing to defend for a point (Arsenal and Man Utd for example - the latter at home) which is a pity considering the flair players they have and on whom the owners have spent a lot of money.

I don't think that it's acceptable for Mancini to blame tiredness for their defeat. Liverpool played on Thursday and had even less time between games than City. True, Tevez was missing but they shouldn't have to rely on him in a team which has cost hundreds of millions of pounds. Dzeko and especially Balotelli are struggling to justify their price tags (as is Torres for Chelsea) and Balotelli is showing the same petulance which he did at Inter. Indeed, some City fans are calling for him to be sold if he doesn't sort out his attitude.

As previous managers can testify, having unlimited money to spend can be a double edged sword. I believe that Mancini will have to do at least one of (1) Qualify for next season's Champions' League, (2) Win the FA Cup and (3) Winning the PL title (although the last is looking less likely with every passing game). Otherwise, he might be the latest Man City manager on whom the axe falls in the close season.

#14 - I don't remember anyone criticising the decision to send Evans off. It was a bad tackle and red card and everyone accepted it. Carragher got more criticism as he escaped with a yellow card when he should have got a red as Evans did.

No United fans that I know are fed up with fergie. He is still delivering success and that is all that matters.

And we aren't scared of Barcelona at all. Inter beat them last year, United did 3 years ago so they can be beaten. Matches against Chelsea always seem to have controversial refereeing so would have preferred to avoid them.

#51
Im not sure about balotelli struggling to justify his price tag, he has scored 10 goals in 18 games in all competitions and also at 24 million although expensive he is only 20 and has a long career ahead of him. What i will say is that he seems to have a disrupting influence, terrible disciplinary record (8 yellows and 2 red cards already) and seems to think he is nearly as good as messi. We now have another deluded footballer in the premiership in the same mould as robinho and ibrahimovic.

@ 51,

I think the solution to your problems listens to the name Murinho. Mancini isn't good enough.

#52 PetShopBoys_Forever

For the record, I think Evans was a little unlucky. It looked like a 50:50 ball that he won 51:49. (If that makes sense!)

@mpk87...
I'm agreeing with you. People shouldnt be saying that Torres just needs time, because he didn't need it before. The simple fact is, he's just not playing well at the moment and may never again (though I hope that isnt the case, sort of). The point is, if you're good enough you should adapt quickly, though it must be said that not every player has the same mentality as many do come good after bad starts. Though Torres can't hide behind this view point.

dmplatt12 wrote:

as a Chelsea fan should i be saying "We can still win the EPL"? Or maybe "What a game they kept my heart racing the whole time"? Or should i just say "Thanks Benfica for the players and goals"?

======================

The last bit is fine. You're welcome :)

@ 52,

Holden's injury is regrettable but it was an unfortunate incident. Evans has no record of being a dirty player. Go no further than Coyle's statement, saying that both went for the ball. I don't think SAF complained either.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

55. At 13:45pm on 21st Mar 2011, MrBlueBurns wrote:
#52 PetShopBoys_Forever

For the record, I think Evans was a little unlucky. It looked like a 50:50 ball that he won 51:49. (If that makes sense!)
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iT does but unfortuanmtely both feet were off the floor and while it was a genuine 5:50 and he isn't a dirty player if both feet are off and you don't get the ball or do but take the player then you risk being sent off and unfortunately he was. Good job teher is a 2 week break for Vidic to get fit

@56,

I am sure that Liverpool fans would love to believe that Torres will never play well again, but I can't really see sence in such comments. All it reminds me is Arsenal fans alleging that players who leave their club seeking a club that wins things are destined to disappear from the football map.

It couldn't be further than the truth. Torres is at the peak of his career and has a whole future ahead of him. He's a Spain striker.

I'm wondering what Arsenal supporters make out of all this. It could be easily argued that their team is in a slump and on the way to another trophiless season. With Chelsea definitely stronger next season, United likely to invest, City definitely going to invest, Spurs with cash to invest and Liverpool already investing, where do they see their team going?

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I see Arsenal dropping out of the Top 4 like everybody predicted a couple of seasons ago. Oh wait... That didn't happen. Say what you like about Arsenal not winning trophies but I don't see us finished outside the top 4 for a long time yet.

#50 robguima

This is his first season for Chelsea (and in EPL), and at 23, he's not really that
Chelsea still lack strength in depth up front; they will need to sign (at least) another forward in the summer.
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Or give Sturridge more of a chance.

I have seen Luiz play for Benfica a few times but had no idea how good he was. He's been sensational for Chelsea at both ends of the pitch and if he was in the Champs laeague team I'd fancy them strongly. Torres looks like he should be out of English football because he doesn't seem to want to know at all. I'd be seriously worried about my £50 million investment. Man City are on the slide and the players seem to know it. I can see them finishing 5th again.

@62, WengersOptician,

I wouldn't go to that path about you dropping out of the top four. I wasn't saying that anyway. My thoughts were related to the possibility for your club to not win the title this season. Without quality acquisitions, in all probability, next season could be one of the same. It was merely a point for discussion rather than attempting taunting to your club.

Chelsea have the best defensive record in the EPL this season and are always very close to the best over the last 5/6 seasons. Therefore, regardless of his lack of pace, JT must be doing something right apart from his great leadership skills. David Luiz is simply improving this defence. He has great pace and enthusiasm but it is his ability to intercept the ball and then create chances that appear (so far anyway) to be his best attribute. Imagine what he will be like next season when he has actually adjusted to life in England and the EPL?

Our ability for winning the title this season all depends on our injury situation after the International break. I don't see us winning it with the CB partnership of Squillaci and Koscielny.

I also don't see why you think next season will be the same. We've played nearly the whole season without Vermaelen and with 2 CB's who are in the first season in this league. With cover for Song and a real winger I can see us challenging again.

It seems to me that there is a subtle difference between the purchases of Luiz and Torres.

Put simply, Luiz continues to grow in stature and his performances for Benfica and Brazil over the last 18 months have been sensational. He fits in because he is currently playing very well and is obviously a very confident young man.

Torres is the opposite. A player bought on the strength of past glories. His last truely world class performance was when we beat United 4-1 at OT. Since then he has been a snarling, petulant, disinterested liability, who spends most of his time mouthing god knows what in Spanish when things go against him (i.e when he was subbed yesterday). He can't take a hard tackle without going after retribution or moaning at the ref, His first touch is pure Emile Heskey and his shooting is more Ade Akinbiyi. Infact, his attitude reminds me of Drogba at his worst, but 33 year old Drogba is a much more potent weapon than Torres.

The problem with Torres appart from his lack of form is that Chelsea don't create many chances for their strikers - most of their chances are created for the midfield. If you look at the matches he has played in there have been very few chances for either him or the other strikers.

Once he gets his first he will most likely go on a run. I predict he will score at least once when he plays United this season. It would just be the perfect time for him to score - and make him the instant hero.

#62 - not for at least 14 months anyway

I think Luiz is another Carvalho, a player who reads the game well and can also take on players as well as take the ball off them. Chelsea have really hit pay dirt, there are very few of these guys out there, tough, creative, potent in attack and inspirational.
I can think of a few who have changed a club's fortunes..Roy Keane, Bryan Robson, Dennis Wise and Carvalho and Viera in their prime.
Chelsea really have some wonderful tough energetic footballers who are below 28, Kalou, Cech, Ramires, Ivanovich, Luiz, Torres and Essien are going to be the backbone of Chelsea in the future and I expect MacEachran, Van Anholt and maybe even Borini and Sturridge to be added from the youth ranks. With the retirement of older players and departures of two or three, expect players such as Aguerro, Sanchez and Hamsik to be drafted in and possibly Rodwell.
City have a differnt approach to the game, Chelsea had been building for years before Abramovich moved in and success although perceived as instant was simply adding top A cup winners cup, Fa cup and a Champions league qualification in the previous four years. City haven,t any recent success to build on and I think until they manage that then they won't win anything major and possibly struggle to qualify for the CL. They don't have the mentality, They may have the money to shop at Harvey Nicks or Harrods but they simply can't carry it with style or belief.

@ 67 WengersOptician,

You could argue that next season it is unlikely that Arsenal will lose at home to teams like West Brom and Newcastle. If you had won those matches at home that you lost, now you'd be clear ahead. However you won at City this season, while you beat a Chelsea side at the Emirates that were at their lowest this season.

Until I see otherwise, I will believe that teams that hold tight in midfield, defend tight and counter attack, will always have a chance against Arsenal, if you don't invest in a keeper, a quality central defender and at least one quality striker. I find Bendtner more of a liability rather than a plus. While Chamakh, having had a promising start, he deteriorated in the second half of the season and I feel he's missing far more than what he puts behind the net.

Wenger, having refused to invest for 6 seasons, it is most likely that he will attempt to seek his vision of a team winning the title without spending, next season too.

If you see what's happening around, you will see that Chelsea have strengthened significantly with Ramires, Luiz, Torres and I wouldn't be surprised if they spend another £50m in another two players, to complete the freshening of their team.

Spurs, having go already so far in the Champions League, will have the opportunity and the cash, if they want, to strengthen in defense and attack, where (in my opinion) they should be stronger for what aims they have their sights to.

City, I believe, need a manager rather than players. I simply don't trust Mancini to bring the right personnel for the club, because he's a defensive manager who is at a club that can afford the best but with a defensive orientation, it's not the way to move forward.

Liverpool are already doing vividly better and seem likely to carry on with new acquisitions. Dalglish seems to be able to improve their team.

If 50% of these allegations I mentioned are proven to be true and Wenger doesn't invest, I find it difficult to believe that Arsenal can pursuit for the title next season.

@ Football_UK

We do need investment but it's getting tedious listening to everybody say the same thing.

''Oh Arsenal need a top class goalkeeper and a commanding CB''.

I'm happy with Szczesny and Fabianski as our first two goalkeepers.

CB wise we have Vermaelen and Djourou as our first choice with Koscielny 3rd choice and Squillaci 4th. Maybe we need a 5th but I'm not too concerned there as we have Bartley and Miquel who should be good enough for cup games.

What we really need is cover for Song as I said. If Song is out we have Denilson playing as a covering midfielder where he can't play.

Another thing we need is a winger. Watching us play we never have enough width. Like you said it's pretty simply to crowd out the midfield and defend against us. Which is why we need the width.

I don't think we need another striker as we have RvP, Chamakh and Bendtner and anyway, Arsenal as a team don't rely on just our strikers for goals.

So basically I'd be happy this summer if Wenger bought DM cover, a winger and possibly another CB.

#72 Football_UK

@ 67 WengersOptician,

You could argue that next season it is unlikely that Arsenal will lose at home to teams like West Brom and Newcastle. If you had won those matches at home that you lost, now you'd be clear ahead. However you won at City this season, while you beat a Chelsea side at the Emirates that were at their lowest this season.

Until I see otherwise, I will believe that teams that hold tight in midfield, defend tight and counter attack, will always have a chance against Arsenal, if you don't invest in a keeper, a quality central defender and at least one quality striker. I find Bendtner more of a liability rather than a plus. While Chamakh, having had a promising start, he deteriorated in the second half of the season and I feel he's missing far more than what he puts behind the net.

Wenger, having refused to invest for 6 seasons, it is most likely that he will attempt to seek his vision of a team winning the title without spending, next season too.
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There are a number of platitudes that Arsenal fans can and do rely on such as it's not all about the winning, they play good football, they don't lose money etc etc

Ultimately though, Wenger has made so much of the virtues or how he has managed the club that it would be a bit of an about face to do what many see as necessary.

The absolute refusal to offer long term deals to older players seemingly with no regard to what their contribution is.

The reliance on young players who do not have much experience and have been shown time and again to choke when push comes to shove.

The resistance to spend any big money. You could argue that they have got what they paid for with Chamakh.

Is Wenger worried that he can't speak to a 'big' player in the same way as he can to a player who has come up through the youth and who owes Wenger everything?

Why didn't Wenger go in for someone like Luiz? Arsenal's defence is a liability at times yet he persists in trying to sign unknown's in a way that suggests to me that he is doing it for vanity as much as anything.

Overall, Wenger is so tied to the idea that he can do it without money that he won't spend the money even if/when it is available. I think that is mis-management of resources.

And you know what, the points I have made, I have made with almost no comparison to other clubs, they are points that I would direct simply at Wenger. There is no 'we don't have the money' from Arsenal fans because everything suggests that the club does have the money.

Luiz, great defender who is in the process of baling Chelsea out of a useless season.

And Ancelotti, can he make up his mind please on whether Chelsea will win the league?!?
https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/9417789.stm

Great contribution there @ 68. I suppose you were locked away in a cave when his 2 excellent goals put chelsea away back in September? Or when a half fit torres scored the 1st when we beat Newton Heath at Anfield last season? I suppose you also didn't see when his backflick set maxi through to score and give us our only away win of hodgsons reign at Bolton? Fair enopugh, be bitter about him leaving, but at least try and sound a buit more intelligent than a 16 yr old.

#75 cliveeta

Ancelotti: "To take it game by game is easier for us."

Makes sense to me.

#76, You've highlighted 3 games across nearly 2 seasons? Carroll and Torres - £85m. Football has lost the plot

Torres has been poor admit it. As the highlight of Everton's stadium squatters season is a home victory over United it says a lot about their low ambitions. Bit sad really and something we would have been spared if Everton had been offered better terms to stay at Anfield

@ 73, WengersOptician,

more or less, we say the same thing. I ommitted the need for cover for Song as, in my opinion, the needs in the other areas are more urgent. I do believe that you would fare better at West Bromwich with Song on the pitch.

@ 74 MrBlueBurns,

it seems to me that Wenger is worried in case he's accused of being wasteful when paying more serious cash for players that might fail. I have this idea since he bought Jeffers in his early days, only to be proven a flop.

@ 79 a childish response. At least we have an identify that's stayed true and consistent from day one.

@ 78. How many examples would you have me list so??? The guy made the ridiculous comment that he's been rubbish since the 4-1 at OT which is an absurd and all too familiar comment symptomatic of the sky generation, telly clapping, day tripping idiots who follow football these days.

Torres will come good given the time, and he has time as we don't really on a single striker for our goals. I think Torres was suffering badly at Liverpool and apart from his fitness he finds himself in a very different team which isn't built directly around a Torres/Gerrard partnership. Wait to see what happens when Benayoun is fully fit and/or when the rest of the team is firing on all cylinders!

Mr Blue Burns, very sound responses, logically and patiently put as usual. You are spot on about Terry who had an excellent game himself yesterday.

The poster above who claimed that Carvalho was the 'real leader' when he was at Chelsea clearly is lacking in knowledge (to use the utmost in polite language). Great defender though he was he had a rashness and excitablilty at times which remind me of Luis... he was no leader, and anyone who's seen him live at Chelsea a few times would absolutely know this.

80 Alistair M - BBC Sport

I should also inform you that since Luiz has joined Chelsea he has helped them recover from their slump. From 14.11.10 to 5.1.11 in the Premier League, Chelsea conceded an average of 1.56 goals a game with 35 shots on their own goal. Since Luiz's first start they have conceded just 0.5 goals a game and have had 12 shots on their goal. A coincidence?
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Quite possibly, yes.

A combination of Lampard either injured or coming back from injury, Essien suspended, Mikel injured and Ramires taking time to get used to playing at Chelsea. Add Malouda's loss of form and you have a midfield that was much easier to get through during the period you highlight.

Since then, the midfield is fit, strong and back in form, regardless of what the defence may have been up to.

82. At 15:32pm on 21st Mar 2011, redman_inc wrote:
@ 79 a childish response. At least we have an identify that's stayed true and consistent from day one.

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No more childish than you calling us Newton Heath. Manchester United has a clear identity and it doesn't matter if we arose out of a different club over 100 years ago. LFC were only founded to fill a stadium Everton didn't want

Luiz has been a revelation since joining chelsea, he is a proper modern defender, he is solid and resolute, and reads the game extremely well as shown by his interception rate. He is also exceptionally good at one on one situations, he just needs to be careful as he can sometimes put in the odd rash tackle which could get you into trouble. He looks as if he would have no bother slotting into a midfield position, he is that composed and good on the ball to pull it off. And he has chipped in with a few goals which always helps, he is a great aerial threat from corners, and i cannot see him getting bullied by any strikers which is re-assuring, the complete defender in my opinion.

#86 gooner8

Luiz has been a revelation since joining chelsea, he is a proper modern defender, he is solid and resolute, and reads the game extremely well as shown by his interception rate. He is also exceptionally good at one on one situations, he just needs to be careful as he can sometimes put in the odd rash tackle which could get you into trouble. He looks as if he would have no bother slotting into a midfield position, he is that composed and good on the ball to pull it off. And he has chipped in with a few goals which always helps, he is a great aerial threat from corners, and i cannot see him getting bullied by any strikers which is re-assuring, the complete defender in my opinion.
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And do you think Arsenal should have stumped up, say, £20m for him last summer rather than the defenders you did buy?

@88, MrBlueBurns,

why rub it when your team is on the receiving end of such a compliment? :)
Although I couldn't agree more with his views.

Agree with most of the comments about Luiz, he's looked superb so far and appears to have made a significant contribution to Chelsea's recent resurgence. I just wonder how big a miss he'll be in the Champions League games against us?

#89 We all follow United

You can only hope! ;-)

This nonsense about Torres not being the player he was seems to be pretty much fact now. But perhaps it is Chelsea that is the problem. at Liverpool, Torres had Gerrard, Alonso(for a bit) and the ever-industrious kuyt all giving him good service, and he showed what a world-class FINISHER he is. at chelsea however, it is more about the dribbling of palyers like anelka, drogba, malouda, kalou etc. and the shooting of lampard. If chelsea had a creative midfielder than Torres would score a hatful, but he'll have to wait for the summer i guess.

#82

Whilst I would agree that it's nonsense to say that Torres has been rubbish since the 4-1 at OT a couple of years ago, there have been too many times this season when it seemed that he couldn't be bothered. Then there were the regular promises of loyalty to Liverpool, not least at the beginning of the season ("I am as committed to Liverpool as the day I signed") and later on ("I honour my contracts").

Following this, after Liverpool bought Suarez to partner Torres as many of us thought, the latter goes and hands in a transfer request three days before the transfer deadline (including a weekend), leaving Liverpool very little time to sign a replacement, leading us to pay over the odds for Carroll who, nevertheless, is looking good.

To rub salt into the wound, Torres then goes on to say that the turmoil at Liverpool caused him to leave (after the new owners had been in place for two months and the club was showing a revival under KD) and that the sale of Mascherano and Alonso convinced him that his time at Liverpool was up. This was about two years ago so what did this make his later pledges of loyalty to the club?

This, I believe, is why some Liverpool fans feel the way they do about Torres.

Although Luiz has been great at grabbing vital goals and is a good defender, I feel the main reason for Chelsea's resurgence is Frank Lampard retuning.

#93 mac_knife

Indeed. Lampard has been there so long and has such consistency that people too easily take him for granted.

Some of his passing was a bit wayward yesterday but he was doing his share of tackling and generally getting stuck in, along with Essien.

And it is for that reason that I think that #80 Alistair M - BBC Sport may have merely identified a consequence of certain performances in the team, rather than the reason for the overall performance of the team.

@ 92, that's fair enough. Anf if the initial comment was made along the same lines as your one, i wouldn't have taken issue. But i just felt the stupidity of it needed pointing out

@ 85 Let it go man, you're called one thing now, you were called another thing before. I'll still call you Newton Heath. The fact that this gets to you so much indicates it's something you're not proud of. Don't worry about it, i wouldn't be too prud of it either if the shoe was on the other foot.

Judging Tores in comparison to Luiz is not right.Everyone has deferent moment to excel,maybe we can only say that Luiz own moment comes sooner than that of Tores .

You can only hope! ;-)

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I don't need to hope, he can't play! That's Chelsea minus (on current form at least) their best defender and a goal threat. Obviously good news for us. How much he'll be missed remains to be seen but it can't be a good thing to have to re-organise a settled defence.

95. At 16:17pm on 21st Mar 2011, redman_inc wrote:
@ 92, that's fair enough. Anf if the initial comment was made along the same lines as your one, i wouldn't have taken issue. But i just felt the stupidity of it needed pointing out

@ 85 Let it go man, you're called one thing now, you were called another thing before. I'll still call you Newton Heath. The fact that this gets to you so much indicates it's something you're not proud of. Don't worry about it, i wouldn't be too prud of it either if the shoe was on the other foot.
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It doesn't get to me at all. I'm proud of the fact that Newton Heath was set up and what the club has achieved over the years. At least our formation was a works team who's name was changed after a take-over rather than because our landlord needed new tenants.

I just think it's a bit silly that you can't refer to Manchester United as Manchester United and try to belittle it buy using the club's first name to give the impression of a smaller club. United are, always have been and will be a bigger club than Liverpool

Chelsea had some easy games st the start of the season which they should have won and they did. as they met the harder teams things started to go wrong. They looked devoid of ideas. This coincided with Lampard being injured. Lampard came back and suddenly Chelsea are winning again...Coincidence? I think not. Lampard might not always do much on the pitch but he has an uncanny ability to be in the right place at the right time and he makes things happen for Chelsea.
Luiz might be doing well but for me its Lampard and also Essien coming back, that are the main reason Chelsea are playing well now.

I've never seen so many reasonable comments about Manchester City on a board before! Trying to figure out what this should say to me. Other teams' supporters not so worried about City any more this year I am guessing?