More on our new website

Ben, thanks for the update, I appreciate it's a work in progress. But you would make a lot of friends if - sooner rather than later - you do something about the way the new home page design can scream at the veiwer. It really is an assault on the eyes and very off-putting. Vivid blue and yellow horizontal bands, a jumble of images and, lost somewhere among it all, the information and stories I want to read.

Well your sports day live feed today is just embarrassingly bad - on all days, when there's a huge story going on and you can't seem to get it right.

am i supposed to start at the bottom and scroll up, or start at the top and scroll down?

your 'in summary' times suggesting starting at the bottom and scrolling up, but if i do that then (some of) the times in order go: 12:35, 12:41, then 11:13, 11:55, 12:23, 12:29, oops then back to 12:20 at the top. not looking good, is it?

A welcome update. At least it sounds as if things might be happening. However ..

"Some of you have told us you are disappointed we are no longer displaying the European fixtures/results/tables ....... Instead of these pages being displayed in the Leagues and Competitions navigation on the right-hand end of the football menu, they are found within the left-hand links to Results, Fixtures & Tables."

I'd eventually managed to work this out. It does beg the question "why?", however. Not at all intuitive.

"But many of you have also told us you do not like some of the changes - eg inability to look at football fixtures/results by day and the lack of ability to see goals go in across various leagues (aka the 'videprinter')"

Hooray, the penny has dropped! I just hope you do more than "review" and "look into" - these pages should never have been launched in their current format, and they need to be revised a priority.

Thank you for reconsidering - it's good to know that the views of the infallible 2000 can be challenged.

Thank you for your update.

I still think the middle-column is daft; I have adapted my reading of the page to just concentrate on this column to the exclusion of things on each side, a technique I might add that I use on the pages with the LHS box-ins. The end result is that I read less on the page but I get the information I want.

I will refrain from making a comment about broken links and deadlines (cough).

there is no mention of the horribly cluttered design of the home page. have you tried looking down the page at the list of headlines? they are cramped and difficult to read. surely the page should be about the content and making it easy to find? At the moment it is really difficult to look at and use the site. The mobile site is easier to use.

I wish there was consistency between the different sections of the site. It seems ridiculous to me that the homepage has a different design to the rest of the site and now the news and sports sections all have different designs as well. From one section to the next you have to figure out where stuff is. When there is so much content, it makes it all the more important to have consistency. There's also a bit too much yellow in my opinion. Fine in the banner because it's the identifiable colour of the sports brand across the BBC, but the smaller icons for playing videos and other, smaller headers just make it a bit overbearing. Not implementing the format with the sliding boxes from the bbc.co.uk homepage seems like a missed opportunity to me.

But those are just my opinions.

Looks like the masthead has now been update to use the white version instead of the black one. At least this means it no longer changes colour on mouseover, and I think makes the yellow header more bearable as it contrasts less.

All I can say is what a complete and utter waste of money and time and you have the gall to try and explain out the mess that is now sports! It is unusable and YELLOW YELLOW YELLOW.. I have got a great idea why not get a site that was world beating, useable a pleasure to use and worked. Hey get the old one back and save us licence fee payers some hard earned money and stop mucking aboot..

Ben are you and Cait just going to keep starting new blogs without addressing the fundamental issue that the site re-design is an unmitigated disaster. There are so many issues with the site you need a rapid re-think. Yes yellow and black are the BBC Sport colours but what you have is too much of it. I have stopped using the site and now have to use a few alternatives where as before I could have trusted the BBC to deliver but you have lost that trust. You should listen to your core viewers and not just stumble along hoping we all come back.
Such a shame to alienate so many people in such a short wile

I liked the yellow banner along the top. It kinda keeps it in the family with News. I think though it's the rest of the page where yellow is used as more than an accent that's the problem. Black or grey here might help? Just a suggestion.

Have got another one for you, on this page:

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16961682

There is one of those ghastly indented quote boxes on the left hand side, this time with a line from Bernstein. The word 'misrepresentation' overlaps/crashes into the text of the story, not great is it?

The new site is certainly more colourful. However, like most people, I would like to see the football results immediately returned to the old chronological format. I don't want to sift through many pages to find out the results of the previous nights games.

Finally some feed back, Thank you. Having read your comments, you seem to acknowledge you have made mistakes, with out actually saying it, will any of you be making a statement to the fact that mistakes have been made and will there be an apology for these mistakes?

I understand the complexity of creating a website of this size and scope, but it is because of this, not in-spite of, that I don't understand how the site was allowed to go live with so many mistakes, issues and bugs! The site should have been tested, re-tested and then tested again!

Whist I notice you have already fixed a few problems (the problem with the flickering top bar for example), but why have you not changed the brightness of the yellow, as this is a major assault on our eyes (also the first thing that one notices on arriving at the sports site)? Surly it should be one of the first things to change? Just tone it down slightly so as not to be so bright.

I still don't understand why you had to make such drastic changes to the site. Yes you wanted to have a site worthy of the Olympics, but this in itself doesn't mean changes to the who site were in order! (and to be honest, if the final Olympic site is anything like the site at the moment then I sincerely hope few people from abroad access the site as, imho, it reflexes badly on the BBC)



I realise, and agree, that I am very critical of the site (and therefore the people behind it) but, it has been, at least in the eyes of over 1300 people (based on the comments on your earlier blog) a complete failure! I don't intend to offend anyone directly, I am just expressing my disappointment with the changes, the way they have been implemented and your response to criticism. For example, why hasn't there been a comment by yourselves on the other forum directing users to this page so they could read your comments?

Thank you for your feed back but I remain disappointed and against the all these changes.

Thanks at last for a response.
However you have merely addressed what you want to address - mostly minor things that can be changed with tweaks, development, glitche fixing and evolving (or whatever such words you can cover your mistakes with). You tell us what we said to you but in the way that politicians do so as to avoid what the real question was. You are only talking about what you want to talk about. You have not listened to the big picture nor seen the voice of the crowd. We have read the blog and know that what you say we said is only a small part of the overwhelming opinion coming at you.
The vast majority response on both blogs and of anyone I have asked is that the site is a fraction as good as the one it has replaced, it is too busy and for many visually and functionally unusable. You have ignored the many who state they are now moving to other outlets and don't even have the humility/customer service to say sorry that so many have felt the need to do so.
It is as I feared. You cannot back down. Will not listen and the site I loved and trusted as did millions will now be lost forever. Please publish the hit statistics but also realise some of us hit it in the hope it has changed and then go elsewhere in exasperation.
I represent a large, multi-generation, sport mad family who have all now been lost to the BBC sports website apparently forever.
My guess is that you've gone for the mobile phone/tablet user and forgotten/annoyed your original core audience.
Don't leave it so long to respond to us this time.

Too Bright and too much information. Perfered old site.

Can we not go back to the format of the old site?
Or have it as an option?

Why were we not asked in advance what we wanted?

The new site seems to be set up for Table/phone use, not for PC

C'mon guys.......I really don't want to have to go to ITV for Football news
Or worst of all......SKY *shudders*

It is terrible. Everything is now spaced out so you can't see much on a single screen. The titles covering the pictures are awful. It looks like a child designed it. Badly.

Its a horrid colour combination, poor detail in the location of the stories and overall a complete disaster to look at.
Using Norman's "Design of everyday things" Nielson's heuristics and Shneiderman's "Eight Golden Rules of Interface Design" this website screams "bad design"
I used to enjoy the old one and could find everything I wanted.
Now, I dont even want to look because it is not easy on the eye.
Needs to be ditched and get someone who can design an interactive website on it, not what looks like a college student's design.

by not changing or disabling the video autoplay you are still forcing some people to break the law, its over 1 week you have been doing this now!!

SORT IT OUT!!

----------------------------------
#15. harryhal wrote:
Too Bright and too much information. Perfered old site.
----------------------------------

That's it in a nutshell.

Succinct and to the point, unlike the redesigned sport pages.

It was easy to find stories that interested you in the old site, now it's not. I went searching for another website to keep an eye on the latest scores at the weekend because of it.... couldn't find anything that kept it clean and simple like the old score updates on here - anyone any suggestions, because I doubt I'll be sticking with the bbc pages as they are.

Ben/Cait/Claire, I understand that you want a distinct colour brand but could you do something about the amount and the brightness of the yellow you have chosen to use? I am not the first person to comment on this based on what I've seen. Until I saw your explanation, I also thought you had stopped showing other European League Results. You say the route to finding them has been changed but wouldn't you agree that the change has made it longer and more difficult to find? I am going to check out if I can find the German Bundesliga Table and if I don't I will be back to register my displeasure. I think you guys need to address people's concerns and quickly, based on the number of comments I have read about people ababdoning the website as a result of these changes

I'm gradually getting the hang of the new design, but that doesn't mean I like it.
Why does Formula 1 get second billing after football at the top of the page when it isn't even the F1 season and the 6 Nations is the biggest international team competition in any sport in which UK teams are currently competing?

Too cluttered by far! For goodness sake, don't just read the feedback, act on it.

Football fixtures/results/tables

"Lots of you have told us how you like some of the new functionality of these pages - such as the new live scores page which kicks in during a busy weekend or evening of football"

Really??????

Where? Certainly not on your old blog running at over 1350 posts!! Come on Ben, lets see the evidence or point us to the forums or blogs that show 'lots' of people liking the new football pages.

It appears you or the BBC Sports website team refuse to accept the criticism.

The once great BBC Sports website has been killed off. Tragic.

'I would like to simply reiterate what we said last week when we went live - that this is an on-going process of development. Last Wednesday wasn't the end of the process, it was the start. '

Dude, as a web designer let me give you a heads up... you do your testing and development prior to launch, not launch and then develop the site.

And as repeated time and time again, set the videos to non-auto play, it's a two second job by changing the auto-play command in the code.

Is the site actually coded in-house or is it out-sourced to a third party?
If in house, why haven't more changes been made?

As #25 says, a quick change in the Auto-Play command will fix that bug. In fact most of the other bugs can be (if the site has been coded correctly) fixed by quick changes in element properties, CSS code and global variables...

Actually the more I read the rubbish about the new design from the sports editorial team the more I am convinced they intend to completely ignore the mass over-riding negative feedback and focus on keeping the existing design even if the people that use this site actually don't want it. You can do that on some sites, but this one is so bad that it will drive users away as it is not just change, it is unusable.

Popped back to the site, after several days, to see what progress had been made in rectifying the appalling re-design. This post does nothing other than re-affirm my reluctant decision to treat the Guardian as my preferred sport site.

Just been to Arsenal section of the Premier League, scroll down to Comment & Analysis and click on Mark Lawrenson's Premier League predictions and you get the predictions for Boxing day last year.

Whoever made the decision to go live with this site has a lot to answer for. Apart from the look, feel and navagation of the site being awful the number of bugs is beyond a joke. This is license payers money getting wasted on this and someone should answer for it.

This is Groundhog Day, for those of you who used the old BBC Home Page and like many others moved away because the webteam at the BBC had their own agenda, i.e. we will let you complain but take no notice, despite over 2,000 blogs. If you look at them the present blogs will look awefully familiar.

All I will say is that is happening here again e.g.

Bright Yellow - That is our colour and we will not change!

We want the site to be more dynamic - Perhaps I as a user just want the information, not loads of extras.

Please take a leaf out of the Weather Site change, they actually listened to the feedback and did something about it.I hope you will do the same, but from the reaction to all the 1,300 plus blogs so far I am not holding my breath.

My immediate thought is who in the team is stopping any wanted changes because they think that they are going to lose face?

Am I allowed to say that? or will I be moderated?

Roger

The rss for the football gossip column is no longer there or working. Could you fix it please?

Well maybe if more people complain via the official BBC complain online route someone from higher up may get involved.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Do we really want an Englishman as manager of England?
Sven & Capello have been our most successful managers since Bobby Robson. England have qualified for two major finals under each. Look at the list English managers since Robson - Steve McClaren, Glen Hoddle (results OK but foolish remarks on another subject discredited him), Kevin Keegan, Terry Venables & Graham Taylor.
Venables was a good manager, but off-field problems led to his demise. We could be going down the same road if Harry Redknapp is appointed.
Having said all that I agree with the FA's stance on John Terry, but think that careful consideration should be given to candidates wherever they come from.

Thank you Ben for completely ignoring the majority of comments.

Just admit that the BBC have made a massive mistake with the redesign of this site and give us the old one back! Not going to happen of course but I can hope.

Ben. You have broke something that was not broken. Listen to what people are saying for once. No one likes change for changes sake? Wake up and see sense, revert back to the old format that everyone liked, it worked, unlike the mess you have forced upon us. It would have been nice to ask the people that use this site for their opinion but as usual we count for nowt. To quote Robbie Burns " the best laid plans of mice and men" man or mouse Ben squeak up I'll get the cheese.

Do like me - promise never to visit this site again. If we all desert it then maybe the BBC will get the hint. It's this 'we know best' attitude that I find so galling. Sometimes the 'customer' is right. It takes a big person to admit they are wrong, but they are all the better for it.

The site might be what the BBC wants but from all the comments it certainly isn't what the users want.

I'm thinking BBC websites are funded by the licence fee, how else would the BBC pay for them, well I for one do not want my licence fee to be spent on such appalling design.

Change is good if it is for the better, not change for the sake of it, and certainly not the changes here that have drawn almost total condemnation.

Why post a new blog and not refer to the origianl blog at all, other than by saying "as we said last week". Maybe you're hoping anyone who stumbles upon this blog won't realise that there has been another blog where 1600 posts were made, the overall theme being a negative one.

Simple remedy - Change the site back to how it was, sorted.

im sorry to say the colors on this site are now for the color blind or 2 year olds i,m having to wear sunglasses in the football page please adress this situation. !!!!

The penny has dropped I have just realised what the BBC really stands for Bens Biggest Catastrophe.

Ben are you really trying to say the old website could not have coped with two stories on the same day. Shock, horro. Please Ben dont say its true.
Why do you all plainly disregard over 1300 posts/complaints and plough on regardless. If you had left the old blog run a few more days you would have had more opinions than the phantom 2000 you used to test the original.
By the way was it actually humans you used for the test.
At least now you, Claire and Cait are famous unfortunately its not a fame you should be proud of because you have taken the best website on the BBC and turned it into the worst. Congratulations.
Please give us back the old website that actually made sense.

Ben, do you seriously expect us to believe that your coverage of Harry Redknapp and Fabio Capello was improved in any way by the ludicrously over-cluttered and garish presentation of this site? The journalism would have been just as good with the old site, and the stories easier to find. Stop telling us how wonderful you are and give us back a usable site. You have made yourself a laughing stock, and the only way you can salvage any respect is to admit that you got this update horrendously wrong rather than to continue trying to defend the indefensible.

This is
a headline

and so is
this one

If hard to
read this

because it's
spread over
many lines

But this is
how the
list of

stories is
shown on
the

home
page

That is unless the text doesn't quit fit insi

And then we have
to deal with the
                       inset text
                       which has to
                       flow around
                       some O.T.T.
                       graphic that
makes it hard
to read the
entire story.

This, we are told,
has been done to
              improve the
              site and make
              it more up-to-
              date and thus
              give us a
              better experi
              ence when visit
              ing the site.

Well Ben, would you
like it if everyone who
sent you an email or
                                  a message
                                  presented it
                                  like this? Well,
guess what, neither
do we!

A site that I visited for years and years. And now I just cannot get on with it. Too cluttered, too garish, unintuitive. I've pretty much stopped visiting it. Guardian for cricket, and looking for a football replacement. I've given up on this one.

To my mind, there are two fundamentally different types of website:

1......Data/Archive
2......Narrative/Images

What this site is trying to do is cope with both as it goes along. And, I have to say, it seems to satisfy neither type of reader.

If you want 'stories', you are assaulted by vast arrays of data and if you want to access 'information' the logic is definitely not intuitive.

Personally, I couldn't give a fig about the colour scheme. But I do want to find quick answers to enquiries. And so far, it has been a minefield to navigate.

I hate to say it, but it seems a forlorn hope that much good will come out of this while the site tries to be all things to all men (and women!). I dread to think what the experience will be during the Olympics when folks are searching for updated results on a myriad of sports.

If anyone wants to see how it SHOULD be one, try nfl.com, mlb.com or nba.com.

Ugh this is horrible. I've just been through the main page for each of the major sports and they're all the same - cluttered, difficult to read, headlines down the middle. And the Olympic pages are incredible - in a very bad way. The much-vaunted Team GB page is just as cluttered and unreadable as all the other pages. And the country pages are just embarrassing. Try Argentina for example. A story about the UK Hockey Team playing in Argentina!!! I need to go away and do something better with my life than allow this revamp to annoy me any more.

Ah, Ben has been revived! I was beginning to think you didn't actually exist...

More feedback for you to 'listen' to:

"For a sports website, this was the ultimate day for breaking news and our relaunched site - with its front page layout designed to create more of an impact"

What? A football manager resigning is the "ultimate day" for you? 7 separate pictures of Capello on one page certainly made an impact -I stopped looking! You need to decide whether this is a Sports website or a Football website, pdq.

"this is an on-going process of development. Last Wednesday wasn't the end of the process, it was the start. There is more to come as we continue to enhance our online product ... it will also involve tweaking the existing design now that we can properly assess it in 'live' mode and can respond to audience feedback."

Most organisations beta test or pilot major revisions. They don't release them full of bugs, and threaten more changes to come.

"The first thing to say is that yellow and black have been BBC Sport's brand colours for a number of years now."

Black lettering on a dull yellow strap against a dark background can be effective, if used sparingly - acid yellow strap against a white background everywhere doesn't work, big time. And over-sized logos in these colours overlaid on most images don't work either. The problem wasn't the header, it's the slap in the face all over every page.

"We are committed to retaining this overall BBC Sport branding, which provides a strong sense of identity."

Ah, you're right, we're wrong. Have you actually tried to use your own website?

"This was unintended and related to how we implemented the page templates used by other parts of the BBC"

Do you mean you're not very good at your jobs, or you didn't bother testing it?

"many of you have also told us you do not like some of the changes - eg inability to look at football fixtures/results by day and the lack of ability to see goals go in across various leagues (aka the 'videprinter')."

= our audience research was rubbish.

Lads its cluttered so cluttered, if u only even fix just one thing VIDIPRINTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ILL COPE WITH THE CLUTTER VIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTERVIDIPRINTER

#42 best comment so far
#46 I did find it funny with the Capello story - big picture of Capello with identical picture underneath. Can't even begin to understand how that happened

On the plus side - thanks for responding Ben. I like the new secondary navigation bar - it makes sense. I can't understand why you didn't implement that to start with though... and I still think given the fragmentation nature of sport, that there might be value in three bars.

I also agree with the comment #4 - the headline column doesn't work for me either.

If you keep progressing and keep communicating regularly, even on the minor changes you make, then I think you will win us over eventually. If you don't communicate, people will continue to become more entrenched...

Have a look at the "Payne sets twin targets for 2012" page.How can anyone think that this layout "does justice" to the story?

Once upon a time there were just 'threads', now there are so many 'blogs' about one thing, a new website that the poor users of which, in massive numbers, well kinda really don't like??
Ben/Cait - why keep moving around to new 'blogs' is this only an attempt to diffuse all the criticism & so new readers of a 'blog' see only a few highly critical posts?
Surely, particularly given, all the criticism I would sincerely hope you are conferring on issues & you could issue 'joint statements' or at least post replies simultaneously on both 'blogs' so as to make it easy for all to follow?
I understand you are commenting on both technical & editorial issues so only comment on your own areas, but the problems with the new design overarch both areas.
All that really seems to be happening is that Cait's responses address issues that the BBC's own web pulishers should be seeing when previewing both the site as a whole & individual pages before uploading?
Given you're having to amend things based upon feedback on a blog (the only things you seem to be listening/replying to for some reason??) I would have thought this would have prompted your having to reconsider any confidence you had in your vaunted research prompting the changes & testers of the beta site.
What scares me that neither of you seems to be really addressing in your replies the main concerns we are raising which are that the 'relaunch' appears to actually be about how the BBC are able to manage the site & not what is seen by the users, also it really is a 'fait-a-complit' as, no matter how many complaints/negative comments are made, there is no possibility of regression to the users' preferred old version of the site?
Surely given your new 'all singing, all dancing' CPS, the viewer should not be the one who have to tell you links etc are wrong - is there a preview function?
Please both listen, make some concessions/amendments for the blog/Twitter/i-Player generation, but don't presume all your users want to suffer it?
Finally, yes, there was the use of the 'corporate' yellow on the previous sadly lamented version of the site, but the superior graphic design allowed that to be 'seen but not (visually) 'heard'.

# 42 That comment was perfect!

Ben, please stop 'listening' and 'fine tuning' and at least do something positive in response to feedback such as this!

Still has horrible navigation, and it still has a vomit-inducing YELLOW. You would be better going back to the old version,it was the best website I have ever used, the re-redesign is just as bad as the redesign

I have just thought what the noo site reminds me of - HAZARD WARNING JACKET! you wear them to warn of your presence. In the case of this debacle warning us of a dangerous site. If I was the Manager of the so called experts who dreamed this utter rubbish up I would be sacking them by now for childish ineptitude. You cannot be serious when you think this is a good effort, a 2 year old on a vtech could do better. I am now urging all readers to boycott this site as I have no doubt that many have, for if I had to look at this site much longer many of you would think I worked for the Big Bunch of Calamities - BBC.

I like how he says in his spiel one of the main reason's we changed the site was to give the latest News a more dynamic feel. Silly that is what the News site is for, so you go and spoil one of the redeeming features of the BBC web the Sports site. I used to spend hours using the old one that worked I now do not use the YELLOW one. I am so angry that you have taken away a trusted freind! Hang your heads in shame.

On the football league tables pages, I find it quite hard to distinguish between the colour indicators for win/loss form. I am colour blind (problems with red/green as a lot of people do) and believe you could find easier colours to indicate win/loss form, particularly as the little coloured dashes are so small. However, aside from that, keep the innovation coming, it is always good to see refreshes of design.

#42 Think tank -

that
absolutely
says
it all

Perfect.....

(only way to better it would be to be in bright yellow, highlighted in royal blue)

And by the way, they are saying their webpage 'works' on one day, when Capello resigns. What about the rest of the time, or is that an admission......

"On our old site it was difficult to do stories like this justice" - So is it seriously that hard to inbed a breaking news update ticker in the old site? Just a few lines of programming. Ben this isn't the 1990's anymore where website design is a specialised skill. A 9 year old with a HTML code book can fire out a website these days, and could probably produce a better end product than this mess. So stop talking to us like we're idiots, most of the people on here probably know more about programming than you do, and this site is not that advanced, sorry to burst your bubble. It's the same as any other website, live feeds, images, RSS, images and text, which was exactly what the old site was. The only difference, the old site was actually usable.

Also, as pointed out earlier, 2 stories is hardly an 'ultimate day' is it? If it is then you have two main problems, firstly your presentation of the two stories was awful, secondly if you think 2 stories is the ultimate what are you going to do during the Olympics? You're going to have multiple stories, world records probably broken, breaking medal results and no doubt some scandals. Oh sorry, I forgot it's not football so it won't be worthy of being on the main sports page. But I would put money on there being some serious faults during the Olympics if things aren't changed. One plus though is that at the rate you're alienating your viewers no ones going to be visiting the site to see the problems.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

May I be permitted a rhetorical question. Do you think the people who have posted in such numbers are the "green ink brigade" of slightly nutty complainers or are we more likely to be the motivated heavy users disappointed by the appalling changes at so many levels: colour scheme, clutter, loss of data we used to enjoy, bizarre truncation. E.g. The upcoming premier league fixtures box on the right column shows the early kick off and three of the 3 o'clock kick offs but not the rest. Glad I don't support Wigan.

I am so unenamoured of your new site I have broken the habit of several years and read about the Redknapp and Capello stories on Sky and have moved to their better functionality for football updates on my iPhone and iPad. If I am typical and you don't address the storm of complaints I suggest your site traffic will fall dramatically. You really ought to have listened when you consulted as I am sure that many will have expressed the same reservations I did when asked.

@42.
Some the BBC sports site up to a tee except I didnt need sunglasses to read the comment unlike the BBC website,

Football fixtures/results/tables

"Lots of you have told us how you like some of the new functionality of these pages - such as the new live scores page which kicks in during a busy weekend or evening of football"

Really??????

Where? Certainly not on your old blog running at over 1350 posts!! Come on Ben, lets see the evidence or point us to the forums or blogs that show 'lots' of people liking the new football pages.

It appears you or the BBC Sports website team refuse to accept the criticism.

Ben...PLEASE RESPOND...LETS SEE ALL THIS POSITIVE STUFF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Your update is just so much tosh. What would be interesting is to see trending comparative hit statistics - before/after the total mess-up. That would give the true picture.

Well no improvement, too much like hard work to find what I want and why the stupid league tables where the points are in the middle? The BBC really should employ some professionals.

Football 365 for me after a decade or more of the Beeb.

Ok I look at the site every day to keep up with what is happening in good old Blighty. I Really like the new layout on the Sports page, only comment would be the Yellow Headline banners are a bit bright more like advert banners than headline banners but maybe that was the idea. Very easy to navigate. Overall nice job.

just utter rubbish - unreadable, unusable, unacceptable... how much of MY taxpayers money have you wasted on this farce? There should be some kind of independent inquiry in to your shambolic wasting of public funds, oh and heads should roll. Perhaps starting with yours Ben... you are so out of touch with your audience that clearly your competency needs to be examined in detail.

@19: Looks like it's been fixed. See https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/16978375 a live page which doesn't auto-play.

@66 Totally agree. Time for a change, get us back the quality website that belongs with the best public service broadcaster and get rid of those responsible for this utter shambles of a website. Just man up and admit you have misjudged the whole thing.

If you are going to persist with it as it is ( sincerely hope you don't) then:-

You still have too much YELLOW, Pictures with blue banners over them look terrible, Put the Football GOSSIP thing on the Football page or just get rid of it. Put the headlines down one side and the More From BBC Sport section directly below the headlines. Move the videos to the relevant sports pages and make the whole page shorter and for pete's sake do something about the Font's you are using as it still looks like Noddy does Website Design.

New website designs are about making an impact but this is achieved through a 'less is more' approach. As almost everyone on here has said this is TOO CLUTTERED and is a jumble. There appears to be one headline in a picture that is lost and then the other 'headlines' are lost in the jumble. Too many other problems to comment upon.

Ben, a simple question.....Will there or won't there be the videprinter tomorrow? Yes or no?

(Great post Think Tank!)

#42 hits the nail on the head and it really feels like it is a waste of time complaining when what gets talked about is vague responses to the comments and an over-emphasis on the positive comments. 9-1 against (or thereabouts) is positive in the BBC's brave new world. You can keep your new website and I will get my sports news elsewhere just like I now get my weather from elsewhere.

However, I do like the fixtures and tables for all leagues in one place, i.e. the European leagues. It might be good to expand this outside of Europe also.

At least there's a response; more than you got on Cate's blog.
Look, im younga and love sport and the BBC site was fantastic, it truly was. Aside all the things mentioned here, for me, the biggest issue is just the clutter of the whole site. I want to read news and headlines, not stick my glasses on and settle down to an essay. The text is tiny and i think the middle column is awful. The headlines are sacrificed for a barrage of video links, images and live feeds and so just crammed, in blue font, in the middle of the screen in tiny text; the writing doesn't even fit on one line, the headline is spaced down three or four. Headlines are what people want, they want to see what's happening; why are you hiding them? prior to the change you had the most functional easy to navigate, aesthetically pleasing site on the web now it is a mess. it frustrates me that so many people, like myself who signed up specifically, are telling you this but you continue to carry on with your ears shut. people are frustrated cos you had it so right and now its so wrong. please listen.

As a sports "nut" I used to visit the old version probably 7 or 8 times a day, largely for football, but also for golf, cricket & tennis. Now it's once every 2 or 3 days and only to check out the blog and in the hope that sanity has prevailed. Now I get all my sports news from other sites, especially an overview of all UK football, both fixtures & results. However it makes me feel the same way as when I see an old friend across the road but make the excuse in my head that I'm too busy to stop and chat with him and feel guilty afterwards. The BBC Sport website was the proverbial one-stop shop - the Harrods in sport websites - now it looks more like the conglomeration of unwelcoming backstreet shops you find in any large Chinese city. I'm sure my guilt will pass.

We need to find out the chain-of-command for who is responsible for the damage done to the previously effective and well-like BBC Football website; only then can we put pressure on the relevant people ie

-Who initiated the redesign, and what was the Requirement Specification?
-Who's budget does the redesign costs come out of?
-Who did the actual redesign of the site (internal, extrenal or a bit of both)
-When is the cut-off date for the completion of the redesign?
-Who will sign off the redesign as having met the Requirement Specification?
-Who does the BBC Football website team report to?
-Where is the wiring diagram for the website department and their superiors?

It's only after we know the answers to questions like these that we can actually get something done. Asking the chap who writes the blog (no matter how nice he is) to sort it all out will not achieve anything.

I have just popped on to see if anything has changed.. still cluttered and and far too difficult to identify headline stories - I was pleased to find blog updated at least some comment even if it took well over 2000 negative comments to get a response.
looks as if the autoplay has been fixed but it should never have been released in that way as if a live broadcast a someone hasn't a TV license they would be breaking law!
Hopefully they will adopt the more black than yellow used by the F1 page as a starting point to reduce need for sunglasses, I just find it hard to understand at how such a dogs breakfast of a revamp was allowed to be launched .
A dreadful own goal by BBC and I bet internet traffic to other sport sites has risen greatly in past week.

I'm confused! Why are there two 'Around the UK' sections? There's one just to the left of 'Radio Commentaries' and another one beneath 'More from BBC Sport'.

And why is the 'Pompey to meet HMRC over tax bill' story listed twice? It's under 'Headlines' and in the England bit of the 'Around the UK' section that's to the left of 'Radio Commentaries'. Curiously, it's not listed in the other 'Around the UK' section beneath 'More from BBC Sport'.

'Centre Earls makes Ireland return' is also listed twice and so is the Cavendish cycling story.

And 5live is broadcasting a commentary of Blackburn Rovers v QPR on Saturday afternoon at 3, yet it's not listed in 'Radio Commentaries'. If I click on 'All Commentaries' and then click on 'Football', I see that BBC London 94.9 is broadcasting the Blacburn game, but there's no mention of 5live.

So is the 5live site right or is the BBC Sport site right? Surely, we should be able to expect accurate information about broadcasts from a broadcaster, shouldn't we?

You really need to look at this new site again because it simply isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing - it's confusing, it's messy and it's inaccurate, and very soon people will simply start searching elsewhere for what they want.

Thanks for the update. I work in an industry where managing change is very important. You have to listen and respond to your customers. I agree with all of the previous comments particulary about the garish colours and the centre headline column which is so difficult to read it is unusable.
The cluttered home page looks as if someone has tried to use every gizmo in the box. Do these designers not understand that less is more? Effective use of white space anyone?
Has anyone tried to navigate through these pages? Pictures with headlines cutting into them? Why? More pictures than words in some cases.
If you want to drive people away then keep going you are doing a grand job!

This is just a complete and utter mess. Why replace a corkscrew when it works perfectly? It was possible to navigate the previous site relatively easily. This one is like being lost in an impossible maze. Trying to locate latest cricket and golf scores today, I ended up defeated. Oh dear oh dear. Whoever perpetrated this should ultimately share the same fate as that being devised for Health Minister Andrew Lansley by some of his angriest colleagues ....

Another 70-80 comments posted. At least 2 of which like the new site, though one of them did admit to being colour blind! Does that tell you something!!

The old site was my home page and very good it was too.
I've change it to the BBC news website, still good, and look for sport elsewhere.

The new layout is like a comic - a blob of bright colours and pictures for those not yet capable of being able to read and not usable for those you can. Its used to be my newspaper, read every morning. Unfortunately it's no longer fit for purpose.

How can it make sense for 'headlines' be in small text in a narrow central column.

I spend some months in the USA where even on the old site many video's were not able be seen due to being "right restricted". Frustrating enough then but this new site with its increased use of videos must make this even more frustrating OR do those abroad still have use of the old excellent layout.

#42 wins, this new website is borderline unreadable.

Thanks for 8 years of fulfilling my sporting needs (unless it wasn't anyone now at the BBC who was responsible for that site design), I have now moved on to a different website.

Ben/Cait. What I think you're missing is that most of us come to the BBC Sports website for information and lives scores. We like this to be laid out in an ordered way so we can find things quickly & easily. The present layout is exactly the opposite. Specifically, please can we get rid of the left hand indents. Congratulations #42. Please can we have the old site back.

Ben, please can you kindly respond to the major concerns which have been raised endlessy on both your blogs and Cait's blog but for some reason have gone unanswered - The football fixtures / tables / results / scorers.

A once simple and intuative Football section has been turned into a shambles of clicking and updating......how can that be an improvement??

We all can't be wrong, can we???

This isn't about 'fine tuning' - it needs fundamental changes and an acceptance that the website designers have scored an own goal.....BTW that own goal was scored on 01 Feb at 06:06.

At least change the colours!!! The rest can come afterwards

And one more bug... any reason why the big news on the ticker today is that Capello has resigned? It appears to have magically reappeared two days after it was news...

OMG this website really is awful... I am just dumbstruck because it used to be so fantastic.

I just tried to see who my team are playing tomorrow, so from the home page Latest Football > Select Championship > Press Update > Upcoming Fixtures > Only 4 fixtures for tomorrow show > Press View all fixtures > The longest list ever, with no separation for fixture dates.

Awful way to display future fixtures, at least have the upcoming fixtures show all fixtures for Saturday, not just 4, and then on the full fixture page separate the dates.

I don't get this at all, your BBC Sport website was brilliant, everything worked, and looked good and easy to read. Why oh why have you messed this up so badly, but more importantly, why oh why are you ignoring the feedback?

If you just post 'we are working through the feedback to make changes in the next week or two' I am sure we would all be grateful for that, but as it stands you are simply ignoring the feedback.

Why have you messed it up so badly?

I used to visit the old site on a daily basis, look at the headlines, right click, open in new tab and READ them at my leisure
Now - I don't know where half of the headlines are, where are the stories, the blogs, the interviews I used to access?
No - I don't mean the preponderence of videos now populating huge swathes of your newly designed site, I don't want videos dating back years in the middle of a current news story - I want to read what I want and I can't do that

But I can on the guardian pages!!

The new site is ghastly, as many people have pointed out, but still nothing is done. Almost everyone seems to prefer it as it was. Your comments in the blog only serve to explain what you've done, without actually addressing anyone's concerns, which is a sort of arrogance, really. I guess you'll just leave it as it is now. Why bother asking people if you're just going to do what you want anyway? What on earth is the point? Different isn't always better. I give up.

This website is now particularly hideous. Obsessed with photos (why????), and now almost entirely dedicated to football.

In particular, I hate that the banner on the home page changes colour when you hover over it.

Quote - apart from the bugs how does reporting like this get in?

'The former captain will miss the FA Cup fifth-round tie with Sunderland on 18 February and the derby against Tottenham on 26 February.

However, Henry will return to America before the north London derby against Tottenham at Emirates Stadium on 28 February. '

#90

The quality of reporting has dropped massively in the past two years, I don't think they check anything before publishing it. I used to complain when I spotted an error, and it would get corrected, but they don't even do that now.

@89: "In particular, I hate that the banner on the home page changes colour when you hover over it."
Have you checked the sport site in the past 24 hours? This was fixed yesterday afternoon on most of the pages with the exception of the F1 section.

This main page is atrocious. Far too cluttered. Please sort it out soon, otherwise you will have no visitors left.

"Therefore, we ensured that those key non-sport sections we could not fit into the navigation - like the Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland homepages - were prominently promoted on the homepage. "

"We have also built a new England sport homepage, to bring us in line with BBC News."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well. One out of two ain't too shabby,is it?

The Sports page looks like Scottish Independance has actually occured!!!!

No. I'm not goint to mention....Cold Play.....and it's Y***OW

By and large I like the new website (including the bright colour scheme), but two things are bothering me: 1.) How difficult it is to find the results for the European Leagues (this has been explained above, but surely a section on the dropdown 'Leagues & Competitions' menu would be appropriate) 2.) I am really annoyed by the results pages as you have to click the arrow on the left of each individual match in order to see goals and cards. I want to see all the results for a particular division at one time without having to make ten or 12 separate clicks and though the new symbols and tabs may be aesthetically pleasing, could you not provide an alternative to view these results in the older, more basic form as well?

Live match updates.
Put them at the top, not hidden by guff half way down the page.

I don't care while the game's on about pre-match comments. They become almost irrelevant as soon as the whistle goes.

I have now read some of the other comments (should have done that first really) and see that the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. Here are my thoughts on a positive/negative basis:

POSITIVES
- Colour scheme (I seem to be in a minority of one here)
- Video & Audio (Lots of interesting and easy-to-find content)

NEGATIVES
- Navigation (Very difficult to find certain things such as results in the European leagues)
- 'Headlines' Panel (Stories just don't seem to catch the eye and jump out at you from this dreary central panel)
- 'Results' (This has to be the single worst aspect of the new website with the unnecessary clicking mentioned in my previous post, vertical timeline style and symbols - please, please, please revert to the old and usable format in this element at least, before people start looking elsewhere {if they haven't already})

MIXED
- Fixtures (Like the presentation {aside from in the reduced form on the football homepage itself}, but would prefer to view by day rather than by division {or at least be given the option to do so})

Some people oppose change full-stop, whilst others don't like change for change's sake. I don't mind a redesign from time to time (particularly with the move to Salford), but surely you must listen to users of the website and look to re-implement some of the features that are now badly missing?

did you actually pay to have a designer do the work on the home page? I would suggest that you revert back to your former layout until you have your issues sorted. I am going elsewhere until you do!

I think it's fairly clear from the comments back from 'the team' that nothing fundamental will change with the new site and that any changes will be confined to tweeking.

I would suggest that the problem now needs escalating to those who may not know about the dissatisfaction the new site has caused, but who perhaps should be informed.

I would suggest Mark Thompson the DG,
Roger Mosey Director, BBC London 2012
Barbara Slater Director of Sport
Philip Bernie Head of TV Sport
Ben Gallop Head of Formula 1
Dave Gordon Head of Major Events, BBC Sport
and possibly Chris Patten the current chairman of the BBC trust.

Does anyone know the email addresses of these people?

Face it, it's a total disaster. Get someone else to do it, or better still, revert back to the old site.