Terry navigates around racism storm

England’s strong and successful performance against Spain shows that Terry is no longer needed. He is a distraction who brings far too much controversy to the national team. Capello needs to distance the squad from him and look to alternatives, a clean sheet against the world champions, without Terry is no fluke.

https://wp.me/1qHQT

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The "major topic of the day" at an England news conference is the England match it precedes, regardless of what the media itself wants to talk about.

The problem is that journalist can't see past the end of their own agendas, hence they feel the need to try and make every story run into the next one.

It is always pleasing to see their inane drivel given short shrift at these 'news conferences'.

Because of the ongoing investigation John Terry should not have been selected for this group of friendlies. Once the investigation has been concluded, innocent or guilty, he can then decide how to continue his career.

I have never really understood the need to pick/play your strongest squad in these friendlies, i would prefer an England manager to really experiment with the squad. Maybe promote one or two of the U21 squad , bring in a couple of players that have been overlooked previously.

I must agree with NIck. Terry should not have been selected for these friendly games while he is under investigation from the FA. I'm all for 'innocent until proven guilty' but there must be common sense used here. Scandal has followed Terry around for the last 2 years which doesn't paint the national team in a very good light considering he is the captain.

Check out this link on last weekends games...

https://footballalwayswins.blogspot.com/

Alombardi - the clean sheet was down to two main reasons Scott Parker and wasteful Spanish finishing. When the big games come around he is still number one Centre half.
I'm more worried about Ashley Cole, since the two games against Utd last season he has looked a shadow of himself. He continuallly fails to hold the line and his mind seems elsewhere. He has played the opposition onside so many times this season it's untrue.

Racism in sport is an indication of the ugly side of our national culture

Last week witnessed the sad loss of one the greatest boxers of all time, Joe Frazier. Frazier and his great rival, Muhammad Ali, fought three times in a period of racial turbulence in America. Paradoxically, Ali infamously manipulated race discourses of the time, accusing Frazier of being an “Uncle Tom” and the “white man’s champion” in an effort to discredit and unsettle him between those iconic bouts. Although both men were black Americans, Ali’s accusations deeply penetrated Frazier, who was all too aware of the polarising power of racism. Frazier held a grudge against Ali for decades since and, as the who’s who in boxing march out to honour the great man at his funeral, is the politics of race still part of the cultural fabric of sport?

Some forty years later, across the Atlantic and infecting a totally different sport – football – racist attitudes continue fester. Over the last decade, some of the best footballers of their generation have been subject to racist abuse. Samuel Eto’o, Roberto Carlos, Mario Balotelli and Ashley Cole, among others, have all been racially abused by sections of the crowd at high-profile football matches in world-famous stadia. The World Cup winning French striker, Thierry Henry, was racially attacked by the highly decorated and feted Spanish coach, Luis Aragones, when he was passing on motivational instructions to Spain forward Jose Antonio Reyes during a training session. In a similar vein, Ron Atkinson, a football coach once widely recognised and celebrated for his pioneering efforts to introduce black footballers into the professional mainstream in the 1970s and 1980s, was captured on a studio microphone unashamedly abusing another World Cup winner, Marcel Desailly, in a callous yet illuminating moment of unfettered prejudice.

Despite these events receiving some media and institutional attention at the time, and the lukewarm efforts by the FA to stamp out racism, recent events in English football suggest that the problem is far from being resolved. Black footballers such as Les Ferdinand and Jason Roberts have recently spoken of the everyday, common-sense racism that they have personally experienced from other professionals on the field of play. The catalyst for such candid testimonies, of course, was the supposed actions of a certain John Terry – captain of Chelsea and, more pertinently, of the English national football team. Whether or not Terry is guilty of the charges is yet to discovered, however, the surfacing of this incident contains wider, more important cultural implications in the British context.

Race-relations in Britain have been the cause of riots, murders, government enquiries and elaborate High Court cases. The series of national race-riots of the 1980s were a seminal moment in the social history of Britain as they irrevocably highlighted the structural and popular racism that existed in our society. Astonishingly, between 1976 and 1981, thirty-one black and Asian people were murdered by racists in the UK. The racist murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence in 1993, led to the Macpherson Report which highlighted, for the first time, the prevalence of institutional racism in the Metropolitan Police. Interestingly, eighteen years after the death of Stephen, the Lawrence family are still seeking justice for the murder (the case only just beginning). Then there is the contemporary rise of Islamophobia in the 2000s and spread of the anti-Muslim Far-Right English Defence League (EDL) and the now politically mainstream British National Party (BNP), both of whom claim the failure and inefficacy of Multiculturalism. Racism and race-relations, therefore, have remained a prominent part of our popular and institutional consciousness for a significant portion of our recent history.
Thus, is it really a surprise to witness the lingering presence of racism within sport? Are we not under the false impression that racism no longer exists in late-modern, cosmopolitan Britain? If racism still exists in football, surely it is a reflection of wider social attitudes? In the aftermath of the Tottenham riots in the summer – an event unequivocally sparked by ailing race-relations in a deprived area of London - the popular public intellectual, David Starkey, fingered the blame on Tottenham’s black community; using clearly racist language in order to criminalise an entire cultural bloc of Britons. As with all social ruptures of this magnitude, the problems are always deeper than crass binaries of “black” and “white”, so why do we continue to tolerate them?

As I write, the story of another black footballer, Frazier Campbell, being targeted in a racist tweet by a member of the public has emerged. John Terry, guarded by his representatives during an earlier press conference, is preparing to lead out the national team against Sweden at Wembley. At the other end of town, Mohammed Aamir, one of the most gifted cricketers of his generation, sits in Feltham Young Offenders’ Institution, serving a prison term for deliberately bowling two no-balls during a Test Match. The authorities threw the book at this young, blossoming talent. Our cultural morality dictates that match-fixing is a heinous crime. Let’s hope we refer to the same moral compass when disciplining racists, no matter how high-profile and talented they are.

BTW after Lestott's performance and Cahill's poor season , Lescott promoted his chances big time. Still can't understand how Richards isn't getting a chance though and really looking forward to seeing Sturridge tomorrow.

It'll be interesting if John Terry gets into an altercation with Martin Olsson.

Could be one for the lip-readers.

@1 So True , Why doesnt Terry just hang his boots? It would be so easy, he the So Called Big Players who 'failed' for thier country step down?

Time to bring in New Young Talent.

You know i just do not understand why Terry is there at all at the moment. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but if i was say in the civil service and was under investigation for Racial abuse, i would be suspended on full pay until the investigation was completed and the disciplinary proceedings completed. Surely that would be best for this situation, it would show the FA take it seriously. There are plenty of central defenders who could play in his place, for a non important friendly. The FA just continue to prove their utter stupidity and lack of media savy!

Billshankly10 - splendidly written! Puts Mcnulty to shame - this should be your blog!

If someone acuses you of stealing from their home and someone hear's you replying "I didn't steal from your home." it doesn't make you a thief. It must be remembered that this all arose from an amateur lip reader catching part of a conversation. Neither the players involved or the clubs had made a complaint at that point.

I actually feel that the Saurez Evra case is far more interesting, one player says he was racially abused ten times and the other denies it totally. Someone is definitely telling porkies there and yet we here nothing about that case.

I honestly don't get why this investigation is taking so long. A simple case of interviewing the complainant, Terry, Ferdinand, and then anyone close enough to the play to have heard anything. Since the players are pretty much a captive audience, this should have been resolved one way or the other within a matter of days. Both the FA and the police have a lot to answer for here, as they do in the Suarez-Evra incident.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

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There was actually nothing at all to prevent Terry, had he wanted to, from simply answering the question posed as to whether he was a racist. It matters not one jot whether the FA or Police have requested that he say nothing 'while enquiries are continuing' and in his position I, if innocent, would be telling everyone at every opportunity and answering questions about it. If guilty, however, I would keep schtumm and let the FA stooge parry the questions for me.

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I definitely subscribe to the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra, but terry has now been embroiled in so many controversies that it has to put his character into question. Certainly, this is not a man we should be allowing to represent the England team as a role model in his position of captain, especially as his playing ability is showing signs of waning.

Personally, I think Capello should have left him out and used this friendly to help build the lescott-jags partnership in defence. A great defence is built on a great partnership, not the best individual players, and the two ex-everton boys look like they have this. But we need to bed them in with more matches to give them more assurance and confidence. Surely, that is what friendlies are for!

What if he gets cheered tomorrow? [which he will] It will look bad.
The whole thing turns my stomach and makes me angry, as does the special treatment he is receiving.

I accept that the media attention has been relentless while the investigation goes on, but describing the interest- from the media or the public- as 'phony (as though 'false' or 'spurious'), is utterly misguided, and prejudicial, if I may add. Let the police and FA complete their investigation before you dismiss the issue as 'phony'. And by the way, why cant the BBC- as one of the most powerful media organization in Britain- sieze the initiative in slowing down the media frenzy. Engalnd plays Sweden tomorrow, but the headlines on the BBC Sports page are all about John Terry. What does that say, considering the same BBC journalists are now complaining about disproportionate media attention?

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He had plenty to say in the squad hotel when he was dropped as captain at the world cup.

Hopefully come July, Ledley King will be fit and can play at least half of Englands games in the finals, because as it stands, he is streets ahead of any other centre half in the country and so I'd pair him with the player that suits HIM best because to be honest there's not a lot to choose between Terry, Lescot, Ferdinand, Jagielka they're all 'honest' and won't let you down but Smalling would be my instinctive choice. England don't really need John Terry, if he's guilty, any more than football needs Anton Ferdinand if Terry is not.

The only 'special treatment' John Terry is receiving is a systematic persecution that seems to have lasted years now. What are his alleged offences? That he had an affair? Well, now, that puts him on a par with half the world's married men, doesn't it? And somehow this was worse because it was with the ex-girlfriend of another footballer...what twaddle. And now he is accused of racism, a charge he denies. Out of this meagre supply of charges, the haters have somehow come to the conclusion that Terry is a 'deplorable human being.' I think some of those slinging mud here should take a very long look at themselves. Terry has served England well and continues to do so, and should be allowed to play his football without all this garbage following him around.
.

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The FA conducted an investigation which lasted for, I believe 10 days before the metropolitan police stepped in, thereby ending the FA's investigation (Evidence had to be handed over, for obvious reasons a police investigation takes precedence)

I have a gut feeling that if the FA's investigation had found anything to substantiate the claims of racism then a few memo's would have flown too and fro in FA headquarters and Terry would have picked up a mysterious knock, or Capello would have decided upon a policy of playing all fringe players to test the backup, thereby saving the FA's blushes.

The fact that this didnt happen suggests to me that no serious evidence came to light. This allegation has already put (yet another) stain on JT's character, possibly unfairly, to have removed him from the squad, or not picked him in the 1st place would have heightened the sense that many if not most people have that he is guilty.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty.

Many have made up their minds already however after looking at the evidence on YouTube.

As suggested already, in any other work related situation the accused would be suspended pending an investigation - which isn't nice, but that's standard procedure.

I assume the apologists are calling Ferdinand a liar?
Enjoy your smugness when he gets cheered. Off to the BNP site now is it?

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@7 Billshankly10

You have written a great piece there, well done !!

Like criminals in our society we must dish out sentences which not only punish them but also deter them from re-offending.

Racism, like name-calling or chanting, is still rife in sports in the UK despite efforts by the Kick It Out movement. What's the purpose of it? It certainly doesn't make players play better football, or win you matches for that matter.

If they genuinely dislike Blacks, why go to football matches??...they should go to where they live and call them black so and so to their face, and see what will happen to you. Is there an element of cowardice in the characters of those who take part in racist calling in sports or in life generally, for that matter? Being surrounded by many friends certainly make them feel safe. But there again it only ever goes one way, blacks don't indulge in it, they are decent and respectful of others.

Canadinho, "And now he is accused of racism, a charge he denies" - but he didn't deny it did he!? Instead, he hid behind the weasel words of his FA minder.

Is there anyone else out there who remembers common sense? The racism thing has completely gone over the top like many other words taken out of context - consistency is another word currently overused pathetically in football. Abuse is abuse and the reason doesn't matter, it's the effect on the recipient that counts and laws were already in place to handle any abuse. The misuse of the word racism is a political card used by minorities and seized upon by the 'nanny-state media'. Logic tells you that any decision taken by the expensively constituted 'race commission' is racist since every decision they take is based on race, and Les Ferdinand's comments reported on this site would have had much more credibility if it wasn't for the fact that they were made at the 'Black Professionals Football Dinner' (nothing racist there then!!). Imagine the furore if there was a 'White Footballers Football Dinner'. Why not a dinner for 'Football Uglies' or ' Fatties' or 'Saddies'? Insults have always been exchanged on the pitch and should remain there whether it is regarding a player's race, his family, his looks, his personal life, whatever - it is said to get under a player's skin and provoke a negative or aggressive reaction. To use a cricketer's phrase 'What goes on tour stays on tour'. I find it pathetic that a Frenchman who doesn't sing his own National Anthem complains that a Uruguayan who has been in the country 2 months has 'racially abused' him - presumably in Englaish- and it becomes Sports front page news for days.

@jb194, I find your mumbo jumbo really pathetic, devoid of any substance whatsoever. So in your own book, insults about someone's race should be acceptable in society. Hitler would be very proud of your effort. And what has singing or not singing national anthem got to do with the substance of the charge that someone has been racially abused? This is not 'National Front' website, my dear fellow.

323. You miss the point entirely! I'm against any sort of abuse,- abuse is abuse and is something felt by the receiver. There was already a law in place for insulting behaviour which covered all types of abuse, to distinguish one type of abuse apart from others doesn't serve any purpose at all.

It will entertaining to hear the Wembley ''faithful'' jeering and booing John Terry tomorrow evening.

The English fans are so fickle and are never happy unless they've got something to complain about, hence why they have a long history of singling out one of their own players for abuse. Crouch, A.Cole, Lampard, Beckham and Rooney have all been victims of the English boo-boys in recent years.

People moan about the 'pc brigade' dragging race into everything but when Terry drags race into it [allegedly] it's somehow OK! Make your minds up.
If he wants to abuse Ferdinand, fine, but why racially abuse him?
Certain people appear to want to make the rules up as they go along, according to their own bias.

1) I am a Chelsea fan and have always been a fan of Terry.

2) The Terry-Bridge Scandal was massively overplayed and was really not tremendous grounds for anything.

3) The racism scandal is a big deal and I think Terry would be wise to step down especially as he is only a year or so away from being pushed out of the team completely.

4) Terry is still (not for long) a better defender than Cahill, Jagielka or Lescott, but in the inetrests of the whole team, he should not be playing. Cole, Gerrard, lampard and Rooney are also debatable as inclusions.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#35 Soul Patch
It couldn't happen anywhere else.
https://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/27/lionel-messi-argentina

#37 i-curry-i
"Cole, Gerrard, lampard and Rooney are also debatable as inclusions."
Ashley Cole a debatable inclusion? I think the result of that debate might end in an overwhelming 'for' conclusion being as he's been Englands best and most reliable player for some years and has no peers for his position. (insert rolling eyes).

Billshankly10

I have read your post and from what you have written it is plainly clear that you do not have the slightest knowledge on the subject of racism.

To write about the 'racial turbulence' [your wording] which existed in the states circa 60's/70's placing it in the same context as Britain today is scandalous.

To suggest that the riots that occurred in England during the summer were racial is ridiculous, they were an opportunity for the masses to loot. Race only entered it because people look for an answer to WHY? Why use the criminality of society as having racist roots? Yes I know because it is easier that way.

You were correct to state the murder of Stephen Lawrence as being the victim of racism and hopefully his family will soon get some justice if those currently facing court are indeed guilty.

One of the problems that arises when people who speak or write on the subject of racism is, everything surrounding the issue is put into one pot. Life is simply not like that.

The definition of the term 'racism' has drastically changed in the last 50 years in this country. It has been defined time and time again and has even been changed to suit the situation that has arisen.

Verbal abuse which has a racial tone has and always will exist in this country, it does not make it right but at the same time it will never be eradicated. That is the nature of a population that is continually developing multicultralism. It is the price of having a multi-racial society.

John Terry as a high profile footballer is ideal for those wishing to further expand the issue of racism and set an example, guilty or not.

You paint a picture of Britain that faces a crisis, we are the opposite because the advances in the last 50 years have been truly amazing when it comes to race relations. Something we should be proud of.

I agree we must have a finger on the button regarding racism, to ensure we never return to those dark days, of the first major influx of immigrants into this country. But the case regarding John Terry has very little to do with racism in the true sense of the word.

#39 kane
Ashley Cole hasn't had a good game all season. Many are losing faith in him as the leading LB and a vote might not be as unanimous as you seem to think it would be.

What about Leighton Baines?

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Post #7 - Bravo. Give this man a BBC blog!

#41 i-curry-i
"What about Leighton Baines?"
I've nothing bad to say about the lad but I don't think at this stage in their careers there's likely to be a swap between the pair. The thing with Ashely Cole's Chelsea's form is different to his International form. Villa Boras has changed things at Chelsea without success but successive England managers have relied consistently upon him without a moments thought for need of change and I would venture to suggest that Ashley Cole would be far more likely to be Englands most capped outfield player ever if not most capped ever than to be dropped in the very near future, but this is just my opinion. My defence would start, Hart, Kelly, Smalling, King, Cole, because they play football in their positions far better than any of their peers, once again, just my opinion.

I felt compelled to sign up and post a comment regarding John Terry being captain of England. I am sickened by this. He is currently under investigation by probably the best Police Force (service) in the world for an alleged racist comment to a fellow professional footballer, yet he continues to lead our national team out onto the hallowed turf. What sort of example are we setting for the budding young England captains of the future. I have seen the footage of the incident (un censored, before pulled) and in my opinion the situation is crystal clear - however I do agree that the correct proceedure be followed and the matter be fully investigated. I think he should be suspended from England duty while under investigation and until his name is cleared and should that not be the outcome then he should be banned from football full stop. In my opinion this would result in him never tarnishing English football with his foul mouthed rants and child like petulant sulking when things do not go his way on the pitch. We have a duty and I mean every single person in this country and all over the planet to strive for an equal world and put an end to all kinds of prejudice and we must make a stand now or take vast steps backwards and slip into an abyss of hypocrisy.

#41 i-curry-i
It's a shame we don't have a central defender named Old, then we could have fielded Old, King, Cole.

Can't say anything meaningful about the racist angle until investigations are concluded.

But it says so much about football that the England captain can use that swear word during a game and it's just accepted.

Imagine swearing like that in any other sport?

And yet when I qualified as a ref I was told "you have to accept a certain amount of 'factory language', it's part of the game."

It's one of the reasons why I don't ref anymore...

#41 i-curry-i
It's a shame we don't have a central defender named Old, then we could have fielded Old, King, Cole.

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That my friend, genuinely made me LAUGH OUT LOUD!!

I have to agree with most posters here that JT should be suspended from football. the only issue i have is that most people are saying he should be suspended from England with no mention of him being suspended from Chelsea. I know that if i was accused of racism in my job I would be suspended pending a full investigation. So why isn't he?!

i also think Luis Suarez should be suspended from playing for my beloved Liverpool while there is a investigation going on. I do however think that the FA should be putting more effort into getting the investigations finished ASAP.

I am very surprised that JT is going to be captain of England tonight. The FA have let the world down (again) when there was a chance to do things the right way and make the English proud of its national team and the governing body of the national sport

As good a footballer as John Terry is (debatable these days.) I have never liked his attitude, having "relations" with a team-mate`s ex-wfe, leading a mini-mutiny at a major tournament and now the racist investigation. This guy should never be and never have been (Beckham should have remained) captain of his national team.

Wow what a load of puritans you all are.

Whilst I would never admire someone like John Terry, I certainly would not condemn and want to crucify a man for what he has done, like so many of you have shown.

As for the idiotic responses to Billshankly's posting, it clearly shows like so many things in this country an opinion is formed without any experience or imagination of the issues or indeed the past.

I wonder how many of you were born and raised in multicultral areas where abuse and violence was the norm. Laws and the style of witch hunting that seems to be so popular today had no effect on the change in those communities. They changed through acknowledging and eventually accepting that tolerance is the only way forward. Even today after 50 years those areas will see these verbal outbursts on a daily basis but it does not mean they are hotbeds of racism.

In heated situations, words will be said that have little to do with the situation, Terry may or may not have said them, even if he has it does not necessary make him a racist. If he has said it and a he is not proven to be a racist then all it means is what many people already suspect he is, a man that has no respect for anyone else.

@ 51

I think most people on here are saying that if he is found guilty of racism then he should be appropriately punished as we ALL should/would be. We're not condemning the man, just stating that we feel he should be treated the same as any other person would be if accused of these kinds of abuse.

Now I wasn't born or raised in a multi-cultural area, I grew up in a little village where everyone was England born and bred, I now live in a largely multi-cultural town but I do not feel violence and abuse is the norm and nor should it be. there is no place for racism or any other type of abuse in the world today. Especially not in full view of the entire world.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen and that some people don't just shrug it off because they are used to it, I am saying that these people shouldn't be used to it. It should not happen. Not fro mthe england captain, not from a manager, not from a politician, journalist, cameraman, prisoner...no one! Fact

Liverpaul85
@51

Ah someone with perspective thanks for the reply Paul, I agree with you in many ways. I do not believe he is or ever was the man to lead England in such a high profile profession. But I do understand him and anybody else who has an outburst that involves what he said.

I guess I am different because I did grow up at the beginning of multicultralism, white, asian and black suddenly cast together in a confined area, in vast numbers back in the late 50's and early 60's London.

Indeed my experience is far from most, I married a black American woman and in 1970 we moved to her home state of Georgia, a true southern state. We lasted a year which was full of the hate that Britain thankfully never experienced en mass. It wasn't just individual orientated racism it was also politically correct racism. In other words unless you embraced and engaged in racism, you could not exist. Very hard especially as I am white and we had a baby which added to the issue. We moved onto Germany which suprisingly was far less of a problem.

I am proud of the way Britain has coped and learnt from multicultralism especially when it is compared to the USA which Billshankly's @7 posting did.

Now getting back to Terry, if he is not actually racist but made the comment. All it means is that it is the action of a very stupid man of lower intelligence.

The real blame lays at the door of the person/people that appointed him, did they have no idea that this man was a walking disaster in terms of bad publicity. The position he holds, although it does not carry power, it does carry the responsibility of image. It is that image that can damage the game.

Terry has not committed a serious crime especially if he is not proven to be a racist. If it is proven that he said what he said, he will forever be labelled a racist which for all his faults, I doubt he really is.

By the way in my life I have met many people and many have made what some on here would call racist comments not knowing my background. Very few would ever merit the term racist. Heated situations, anger, loss of a job [after all someone has to be blamed no matter what] envy and many more tend to bring out the types of comments that Terry is accused of. Maybe because of my experiences, explains why I understand it for what it is.

The glare of publicity can have a negative effect, it will not change the view of the majority of us who are not racist

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Unfortunately like many things in life the glare of publicity only has a negative effect.

If a certain type of crime gets publicity you end up with far more of that type of crime.

A story about racism, no matter what type will not affect the non racist viewpoint, for a racist, their opinions will be further embedded.

Terry may be guilty or innoocent of the charges but he will end up a hero to the racists.

35.At 23:05 14th Nov 2011, The_soul_patch_of_David_Villa wrote:
It will entertaining to hear the Wembley ''faithful'' jeering and booing John Terry tomorrow evening.

The English fans are so fickle and are never happy unless they've got something to complain about, hence why they have a long history of singling out one of their own players for abuse. Crouch, A.Cole, Lampard, Beckham and Rooney have all been victims of the English boo-boys in recent years.

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Soul patch, you are never happy unless you are vilifying the English Premier League or the England national team, why don't you get together with some fickle English fans, I'm sure you could have a wonderful thought provoking conversation ;)

No decent person abides racism but at the same time playing of the 'race card' is just as abhorrent ands in this case either Terry or Ferdinand is lying. We will only know when the Met's finest finally complete their 'investigations' or one the players involved admits it was them. In terms of England the Spain game proved Terry is no more essential to starting for England than Anton's brother and Terry's rival for the England captaincy, Rio Ferdinand.

I don't understand why this is dragging on so long. Either he said something or he didnt.
If he did then there has to be evidence in which case how long doe sit take to lip read.

I didn't see the game but I did see van Persie in the Chelsea game clearly turn on Ivanovic after he had caught RVP with his elbow and say "you f#*&!ng w@*#er". It was easy to mouth read.
If Terry said anything and it is on video then lets have out with it and end this sordid saga.
Likewise with Suarez and Evra.

Where's the evidence?

@ 58

How did you lip read those symbols?! That is impressive!

@ Londoner in exile

I think i understand where your coming from. I think I can see your point about "seeing it for what it is" in terms of Terry saying something that he knew would rile Ferdinand without perhaps thinking of the bigger situation. I don't think there is a person here who hasn't said something racist/abusive to someone just out of anger or to get a reaction and maybe this is the situation with Terry. However, watching a lot of football i have noticed that Terry does seem to get involved in these kinds of situations a lot. This is what leads me to think that maybe he isn't the right man to play for, let alone captain, the national side.

I don't think that JT is a racist. Look at the picture above. He is laughing and joking with Glen Johnson (who happens to be black) and i have seen many occasions where he is behaving in this kind of manner with many players of different race, however, I do think that the bloke is obnoxious and hot headed. I also think he is spiteful and needs to be taken down a peg or two. I just don't see the FA (or the Met) being the ones to do this and i would put money on him not being charged with anything and being the next face of the 'lets kick out racism' campaign

Soul_Patch_of_David_Villa is the greatest thing to have ever graced these forums!

@60.
Disagree!!
Admittidly Soul_patch is a really good WUM, with a few (very few) good points mixed in. But now McNulty blogs consist of off topic arguements between him and those who bite.

This argument about what may happen to employees under investigation in other jobs is irrelevant. Being captain of the England football team is not any other job.

Secondly,what an appalling article this is by Mcnulty! And how embarrassing in yesterday´s press conference were the journalists with their pathetic attempts at trick questions

Anyone in the same situation as Terry with half a brain cell and an average lawyer would stay silent whilst under investigation. Terry has an obligation to co-operate fully with the police in this investigation, but not with the blood lust idiots in the media and their moronic followers.

There is a criminal justice process in this country and only last weekend we remembered and respected all those who died for it. Also respect the system they died for too.

If Terry has a case to answer to he will be charged. It is that simple!

I don't think John Terry is a racist but he is an obnoxious person of low mentality. Without football, he probably would be in jail.

Why would anyone choose him to be captain of England as he is a disaster waiting to happen?

Is there no one else in the team who is a hero to our youth, a family man and can articulately express himself in English?

Probably not!!!!

And for those still determined to argue what might happen if a similar situation had occurred in the company they work for,then this is worth a read........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2058320/Fabio-Capello-knows-compare-John-Terry-Joe-Schmo.html

Terry never should have been Captain after the first time. The man just can't keep out of the media for one reason or another. I agree with Nick@4 He shouldn't have been picked for these friendlies until the charges where sorted one way or the other.
There are better players than John Terry out there waiting to be picked.
I would leave him to history and move on to a better team without him.

Football represents all that is wrong in sport. Too much money and no morality. The RFU told Mike Tyndall to pay £25000 and tha, in effect, he would never play for England again for a stupid night out. The FA and Terry????

@45.At 00:18 15th Nov 2011, SWB13LFC1977 wrote:

"He is currently under investigation by probably the best Police Force (service) in the world"

Nah, the Metropolitan Police force is just a pub level police force. They are nowhere near as good as the Spanish police force.

61. At 07:49 15th Nov 2011, Dont call my name Dont call my name Chicharitoooo wrote:
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But that's what makes it so funny! The people that take the bait! And it's a fairly large number that do. It's hilarious how every single blog (regardless of what it's about) ends up being about one of two things. 1) How La Liga is superior to EPL -or- 2) How England's national team sucks.

It really is quite entertaining!

Most of you just dislike John Terry and like feeling as though you are morally and intellectualy superior to him when I don't think any of you realise what you would come across as if you yourselves were in the public eye. Most of the comments you post on here if scrutinised come across as childish and reactionary as for those that attempt to make sweeping superficially intellectual essays on a blog about john terry and how his story relates to world racism, I think you should take a backward step and analyse yourself and the pomposity with which you write and then maybe write a scathing essay about that

@25-Canadinho

Well, I took a long look at myself, conclusion:- my opinion of John Terry is still lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut.

@7

Very well written and many points are valid, however I feel your conclusions are unfair as there isn't a lot of balance. The danger is that we can focus on elements of a very complex topic and not the whole picture. I will not try to do the whole topic justice as I'd be writing for days and not minutes, but suffice to say I think the vision you portray is of a failed multi-culturalism with a hint at sole blame lying on one racial subset. Rather I prefer to think that overall, and certainly comparitive with most areas of the world, multi-culturalism here is a success, but that does not mean it is finished. Indeed it is over-whelming and a mark of that success that sometimes there are cases of positive discrimination - who would have thought that 30 years ago?

Changing culture takes generations, and it is the shock to the majority that makes a minority action so high profile. Lest we forget those caught making racist or sexist comments do get punished. The mob at major sports events still goes tribal, and often do not think what they are chanting. Of course it's no excuse, but it takes a lot to switch their thinking from blind mob loyalty to an individual sense of perspective that says "hang on , there's something wrong here". So mob situations will often bring out the worst characteristics of the ring leaders expressed in the mob itself.

Yes racists are still around in numbers from all races. But I see massive positives in our adoption of multi-culturalism in the UK and I know that any who are found guilty of racial prejudice tend to suffer punishment and vilification, and that's fine with me. I reiterate though, your points are well made and must we not rest on laurels, and the incidents that do still occur should be dealt with rather than washed away with a 'but we've all come a long way' approach. I'm not suggesting that.

Cheers.

I've read a great deal of comments and I'd like to reiterate a couple of points already made as well as approaching this issue of abuse head-on.

1. John Terry, at the end of the day, has had an affair. Which puts him in the same boat as half the world, so let's drop that self-righteous justification for identifying him as a berk. He exemplifies, not all, but a great deal of qualities such a patriotism, bravery and leadership that point to him being a choice captain for our International Team.

2. The vast majority of posts have completely ignored the fact that he has not been proven to be racist, and that should he be identified as a white (insert expletive) no one would be up in arms. Whilst I appreciate there is a history that one might use to justify this being diregarded as on a par with racism against those of other origins, I personally feel that if we are expected to move past history we can't have it both ways, which brings me to my next point.

3. Abuse, as someone earlier mentioned, is abuse. I am certain Terry shouts abuse at other players, that other players direct abuse at him and that crowds, managers & fans alike exercise a daily dose of abuse in his direction. The fact that this isn't racial shouldn't detract from the fact that he and others get on with it, because passions are high and sport brings out a lot of bestial qualities we as individuals aren't so proud of, as well as elevating some of the genuinely commendable attributes I mentioned earlier. Put the racism aside and just look at it as two individuals having a go at each other, because that's what it is, nothing more, nothing less.

@67

Goodone! But seriouly the best in the world @45? Is this Comedy Central?

@68
No.
It WAS midly entertaining. Now it is just the same old bile every blog with the same old phrases. Complete Bore fest. Dogs n milk, comedy central, pub standard zzzz.

73. At 08:40 15th Nov 2011, Dont call my name Dont call my name Chicharitoooo wrote:
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And THAT is exactly why it is so entertaining. Soul_Patch regurgitates the same old stuff and a fairly significant number of folks continually try to take him on. This says more about the people taking the bait than it does him!

The whole thing reminds me of a friend who has Asperger's syndrome.

So King_Eric, controversy has followed Terry around for the last 2 years, like it hasn't been around for Rooney, Ferdinand, Gerrard ETC ETC, it is there simply because the media love to demean every player in the EPL whilst making money from their grubby little backstreet undercover stories. We are the ONLY country that strives to embarress or belittle our own countrymen because it sells papers, i think the reason the press were assembled was to discuss a friendly between England and Sweden, NOT to discuss an event that happened weeks ago and that is under a police AND FA investigation, because the spoilt brat journos couldn't get their own way they threw their teddys out of the pram...get a life Phil i thought you were bigger than this, obviously i was wrong!

The second paragraph of the article is way too long without any punctuation. That's the real crime here; a crime against grammar.

Stuart_MCFC, you are the epitomy of all that is wrong in this day and age and why we no longer have the gallows to try people accused of doing wrong.
Firstly YOU are convinced he is guilty, YOU will never listen to reason because YOU have made your mind up that he is guilty, no matter what. We're not all joined to the BNP and we don't run off to their party at all, let the investigation run it's course if he is found guilty then the mud slinging and "off with his head" behaviour can start by the neanderthals, if however he is found innocent then we should slay Ferdinand, the person who got the lip reading wrong, everyone at the FA and the police for dragging it on for so long and every other person who has found Terry guilty before tried : ), basically if we lived in the dark ages, as YOU do we would have hung him first and asked questions later, now who is the caveman???

@74.

...whatever floats your boat....i guess.....

To have John Terry represent England is wrong....its embarrassing to think the rest of the world watch and see Mr Terry and think every Englishman is like him ....i assure you we are not ......He is a big headed..over payed football player......the only people who think he`s great are Chelsea supporters and even those numbers are dwindling.....

Irrespective of the outcome of the investigation, Terry should never have been re-instated as England's captain. It's a position of prestige that requires a certain dignity and code of conduct. Terry has demonstrated too many character flaws to fill this role and it is frankly embarassing to see him as the representative of his country.
Also, I'm not convinced that he even merits a place in the side anymore. I don't think he would have stood up to Spain as well as Jagielka and Lescott did.

@Stuart_MCFC
Because of how the charges came about if Terry is innocent it doesn't necessarily make Ferdinand a liar.

Unlike the Suarez / Evra case

I don't like Terry, I think he's too slow and immobile and off the pitch he's a dispicable character. He should have been thrown out of the England set up years ago.

@75.At 08:55 15th Nov 2011, nikki7luc wrote:

"We are the ONLY country that strives to embarress or belittle our own countrymen because it sells papers"

We are the only country in the world that do this. We are the only country in the world that does that. FIFA has it in for us more than any country in the world. Referees give more decisions against us than any other country in the world. The EPL is the best league in the world. (And now) The Metropolitan Police is the best police force in the world.

NOT. Where do people get these ideas from?

What is all of the fuss about?

As England captain and a starter in Tuedays match, it is right & proper that JT does the pre-match press conference - to discuss the current round of frieindly matches.

As somebody involved in a current police (& FA) investigation, it is also right & proper that he did not discuss that investigation. Not because of the FA trying to protect him, or any sort of mesage regarding his innocence, or otherwise, but because it might prejudice that investigation.

The only suprise is that the media turned out in greater force than usual, when it was obvious beforehand that this would be the situation.

Media Hype - Non Story - Move on.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#76 smoothdunc

I'd like to lend my support to stamping out the real crime here. Touch-typing may lead to the odd spelling mistake...but to just lose the plot like McNulty did during that second paragraph????!!!!!!

Come on Phil. Have a word with yourself.

I think the John Terry story is one of those news items which the press find interesting but a lot of the public arent too bothered by. Other examples include the obsession with Jose Mourinho and what colour socks David Beckham may be wearing.

Sometimes the media dont understand what is interesting to a journalist may not be of any interest to me.

The long and short of this is... untill the lad is proven guilty we have nothing to say. the rest is just conjecture and tedious conjecture at that.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

When people are asked what is the problem the best answer is always well here's the solution. The solution to the Terry situation is blindingly obvious and it has nothing to do with allegations proven or not.

Terry is the most over rated central defender in world football. He has been at the heart of England's defence over a period of 6 yrs during which time they have repeatedly failed and had their defesive frailties exposed time after time after time. Somehow this man seems to exert power and influence over managers far beyond his ability. In SA in my view he should have been sent home for displaying the most disloyal of disloyal actions in public. He is slow, cumbersome, prone to fouling and in my view not fit to wear the England shirt let alone be captain. And yet Mourinho, Hiddinck, Ancelotti, Villa-Bose and Capello have sucked up to him. The future of England's central defending was seen on Saturday, why go back to failure?

@7 & @30

I enjoy the post @7, but this in itself could be deemed as racist as @30 definitley is.

As a British non white, I have been appalled by the racism against the "white" in sport which I have experienced all over the world in various regions and in different sports. However, in their majority they just have to let it flow like water off a ducks back, as the only time it gets publicised is if a comment is made in retaliation, which is then taken forward as a racial issue.
It often seems to state that racism in sport is deemed to be in the sole ownership of the non black and always against the black. In my experience this is totally incorrect but any attempt to report against a comment against anything other than black is itself deemed as racist.

Have we all become too sensitive to what is and is not racist!!

If I take ofense at what someone else says, if someone retaliates to what I say, if someone disagrees with me and I don't like it. I could say its because of my race.

There are many occurrences of what people ofthe "same race" call each other is totally acceptable, but if someone of another race says the same to the same person it is seen as racial. We have all become over sensitive and looking for an excuse to open up conflict.

I do not condone racism but can we all start to preclude this over sensitivity and "sensationalism" by journalists.

I particularly agree with Revis @72 - the fundamentals seemingly behind this allegation are that Terry used the word 'black' in front of the normal torrent of abuse he and many, many others dish out in a sporting arena, whether that is at Wembley or Hackney Marshes in football terms. If that makes him racist, that is for others to decide. He and many others will tell you it doesn't and will doubtless point to the amusing choice of BBC picture for this article as proof.
I'm not black and therefore am in no position to know an awful lot about what being on the end of so-called racial abuse can actually feel like. But to Revis' point, I do know what abuse of a general nature can do to my psyche. On a sporting pitch, particularly at a higher level, if I can gain some form of psychological advantage by abusing my opponent, I'll probably do it - and that generally involves belittling my 'opponent' in some way shape or form. That might come out as using the short-man analogy, or an ugly person, or perhaps a comment about the perceived lack of someone's ability to do a certain thing. All intended to be hurtful to the recipient at that point in time and perhaps gaining me that advantage. It doesn't mean longer term that i hate short people, or ugly people, or people that can't kick with their left foot. And this is what I suspect Terry would use as an argument.
Terry, like 99% of professional footballers, is not endowed with great intelligence but what he has done here is heat of the moment psychological verbal sparring. It was poorly chosen because of the racial connotation, yes - but does that really make him a racist? I suspect not.

Has anyone been watching the cricket? West Indies are under the cosh in Kolkata.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

It's sad that John Terry is still seen as important to England by Capello. Did he not see him fall flat on his face against Arsenal a couple of weeks ago as well as the countless mistakes he has made already this season? The culture of being selected on name rather than form has to end otherwise we'll constantly be taking one step forward with games like the one against Spain but then two steps back days or weeks later.

@29

Your insinuation that people who think that Terry may not be racist are apologists for racism is not very well thought out.

First of all there is no evidence that Terry (if he made the alleged remark) is a racist. Terry already had an issue with Ferdinand before he made the alleged remark. He did not pick on him or discriminate against them because of his race

Secondly my understanding is that Ferdinand is not claiming to have heard the comment from Terry so nobody, apologist or otherwise is calling him a liar.

However there is no doubt that remarks like this, highlighting another's ethnic or national background, from high profile sportsmen can give the impression that it’s ok to behave like this. Its not. It therefore should be stamped out. Terry should be punished if found guilty. This is the way to deter such behaviour rather then brandishing him as a racist. If we were to do the latter I do not think the punishment fits the crime.

Repeat offences would of course bring the possibility that the transgressor is indeed racist but isolated incidents really need to be categorised in the same way as other transgressions. For example one red card in football does not make a player dirty!

#3 TheTrawler

The "major topic of the day" at an England news conference is the England match it precedes, regardless of what the media itself wants to talk about.

The problem is that journalist can't see past the end of their own agendas, hence they feel the need to try and make every story run into the next one.

It is always pleasing to see their inane drivel given short shrift at these 'news conferences'.
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Couldn't agree more. Once again the self important media look to blame someone else for not being given the ammunition for their agenda.

Perhaps if the media could be trusted to report events accurately rather than put their romantic or damning spin on the story, they might have got something more.

But they can't and to protest is pathetic.

Tell me Phil McNulty, did you or your like ask Capello about the exclusion of Micah Richards?

39-Kane: Sorry to disagree (actually im not at all sorry!) but Cashley Cole is not the player he was. He once was England's one world class player but no more. He is frequently exposed out of position, gets beaten for pace and appears to be miles away most of the time. Time to ditch the failures in my view and rid the dressing room of the stench of defeatism-Cole, terry, ferdinand, Gerrard, rooney, Lampard and Barry should all go. Remember Germany-4 England -1? Well thats coming to a tv set near you again next summer unless we ditch these failures.

61

well there aint much else to talk about, may aswell wind up each other for laughs.

and soul patch is far and away the funniest on these blogs.

GO SOUL PATCH OF DAVID VILLA!!!!!!!!

Put simply, Terry shouldn't be anywhere near this England squad, guilty or innocent. Its another distraction that could have been avoided simply by not selecting the Chelsea defender.

The off-field issues aside, I don't understand why John Terry is still being selected for England, let alone still being selected as the captain. His lack of pace and mobility gets brutally exposed at the highest level, it has been for a couple of years now.

People infer that he is a great leader and the best captain we have. Yet he wasn't missed at all against Spain. In fact other players seemed to take more responsibility in his absence.

It may be a clever move to give the armband to Joe Hart. He's starting every game on merit and could grow into the role over the next seven or eight years. Its no coincidence that England have never lost when Hart has been in goal....

Terry's best asset is his heading, his defending of the penalty area with blocks and headers from ariel balls. Yet at this highest of levels, the majority of teams don't play like that so it is a skill that would rarely be needed.

Get Phil Jones in there now and let him learn the role ahead of the 2014 world cup. Jagielka and Lescott proved against Spain that they can perform at this level and either would be a decent foil for young Jones.

Terry has served England well over the years but his time is up. It was in South Africa.....

#95 DUBLINVIEW

from high profile sportsmen can give the impression that it’s ok to behave like this. Its not. It therefore should be stamped out.
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This is true of many types of behaviour from footballers.

The constant swearing at the ref rankles with me as one of the worst. Watch under 7's play, for example, and they will be disrespectful to the authority figure in just the same way (and using almost the same language unfortunately) and their fathers on the side are just the same.