Intriguing political role reversal?

Strikes and debt. More to come. Thank you Labour for getting us here again. Time for the cavalry. I want a government which offers me incentives and treats me like an adult. Stop tryong to make my decisions for me. The Conservatives will do.

This is something that people who work want .Labour have had 13years of pandering to their workless core vote ,whilst stealth taxing working people .It may also encourage employers to hire not fire

I cant wait for Brown to go on about this being unfunded and will hit the defesit....

After all his (browns) spending plans will really hit the defesit!

BUT Taxing employment is NOT the way to drive forward recovery.

Currently over 50% of employment is in the public sector and as the cuts (which BOTH) parties need to introduce start to reduce public sector jobs we need policies that encourage the private sector to create jobs

Yes, just what did happen to Gordon Brown's labour investment versus tory 10% cuts. How can a party be in power for thirteen years and not know what and where the cuts will be made, miraculously until after the election. So in 6 weeks time labour can tell us but not now. How stupid are labour, really stupid.
The policy on NI contributions is a sensible policy by the conservatives, indeed a breath of fresh air compared to the stale air of labour.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

Reducing NI, which is a tax on jobs, will be welcomed by employers and should enhance the recovery.

My back of a fag packet calculation, NI raises £97bn, so a 1% increase from current levels will cost around 1/12 of this = £8bn or so.

Labour plans to reduce the deficit by around £80bn over 5 years, so the Tories would have to reduce spending by an additional 10% or so to fund this, with some offset from enhanced economic growth.

We will not know whether this is feasible until we see more detail from all parties on how they are going to reduce spending.

The Lib-Dems are in a similar place to the Tories, as they have promised to raise the income tax personal allowance to £10,000. If Labour do not spell out their cuts in detail, then they will find it difficult to convince anyone that the Tories or Lib-Dems can not find more.

There is a strong argument that tax cuts will regenerate economic growth faster than tax increases. I am surprised the government haven't covered that base already: but planning was never their strong suit, was it?

So as Labour seeks to put pure pink water between itself and the Tories, the Tories in their turn seek to put clear blue water between themselves and this failed government. The trouble is if you mix red with blue you get brown.

However, like it or not the political class are slowly being forced out from behind the smoke and mirrors to confront this disaster of debt. In so much as that is happening then to me the election is working.

The coming reductions in public expenditure are going to make Mrs Thatcher look like a pussy-cat and the decline in growth in public spending is going to make her look like an utter spendthrift. In the end it won't be the Tories screaming to bring back Thatcher, it will be the over-paid, under-employed senior public servants as her regime will seem the veritable pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The country is broke so why can' the politicians admit it?

Alistair Darling you describe as careful, cautious and candid?

What's candid about admoitting 24 hours fafter a budget that he forgot to mention 20 odd billion of cuts to come? Why wasn't there a spending review?

The only way top describe him is "dull, limp, lifeless" - a bit like Cheryl Cole's hair in the advert. He is a walking mogadon.

The UK economy needs a shot in the arm with lower public spending and lower taxes on business; not the return of the living dead approach from Alistair Darling.

The Chancellor has scored a Pyrrhic victory only over Gordon Brown. He won't win over the electorate with a one dimensional approach to economic management. He has won at the expense of the reputation of his governemnt, highlighted the divisions within and given the electorate a chance to see that their re-election would be of a party falling apart at the seams.

Come on the tory cuts!

Tally ho the tory hunts!

An end to agenda politics.

Call an election.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

Could you please stop referring to a tax CUT - it is a decision not to implement a proposed Labour tax RISE.

Actually I think it's a sensible idea. NI - the Employment Tax if anyone prefers an honest name for it - is an overhead in employing people, and anything that impedes hiring workers is a disadvantage in the current economic climate. Especially when it confers no particular benefit to worker or employer, it's just more tax (the idea that it contributes to pensions, etc., has gone out of the window particularly with the denial of cost-of-living increases to some folks who paid in all their lives but have chosen to live overseas in retirement).

I was thinking in the bath this morning about deficits and how to deal with them. Consider this: if an individual is in debt and is sensible enough to do something about it, he will look at his current expenditure and decide what is absolutely necessary (food, accommodation, transport, utility bills and council tax) and what can be trimmed or cut out altogether - so he may buy cheaper food, cut out going to the pub or on holiday and not buy new clothes or music, and so on. The money saved is then used to reduce the debt.

But what we are hearing from aspiring governments of all flavours is vagueness. My choice will be based on what each candidate for my vote feels are the absolutely necessary things to spend public (i.e. OUR) money on, and which can be cut away without significant damage. We are hearing threats about 'cuts' used by each party to try and scare us off voting for t'other lot, rather than a reasoned analysis of what we need to preserve and what we can do without. Like my bathtime man in debt, we need to keep up healthcare, education, transport infrastructure (at least, that which is still in public ownership), a social 'safety net' and the justice system. A spot of defence will come in handy too, but not involving meddling in other country's affairs unless THEY ask for assistance.

The rest can go. At least until the debts are paid.

First party to come up with a working balance sheet showing how they intend to do this gets my vote. Or at least has a better chance of getting it than those who waffle without substance.

Again do I detect a slight left leaning to this report. The NI increase is not due until next year, so he has at least 12 months to cover this after sorting out what can and can't be spent. Nick you tend to the glass half empty when the opposition talk. However, the utterances from Downing Street which ever number are treated a s gospel. Have you not managed to research whether Mrs Thatcher actually cut government spending or not? Or will you continue to quote Darlings words and treat then as the unedifying truth?

The NI hike, especially for employers, is a tax on jobs. I thought the policy was bonkers when Labour announced it in the middle of a jobs crisis. George has got it spot on here. It is one thing to take the tax out of our pockets, but to limit our employers' ability to employ in the first place seems contrary to what Labour have said about safeguarding jobs.

I was sitting on the orange fence for a while, I'm edging toward the blue corner with this sudden and unexpected use of common sense.

Ed Balls performance on Andrew Marr's show yesterday was shocking.

He obviously believes he's being clever by evading the question on exactly where the cuts are going to be since they made a commitment to maintain the front line services.

Mr Balls - its not clever and you made yourself look like a bully by refusing to answer what was a really important question - may you get what you deserve on May 6th.

Just maybe the Tories will get labour on the run now by actually fleshing out some of the substance - Labour conveniently forget when accusing the Tories on the lack of clarity that they have a habit of pinching their policies if they sound good.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

Good policy anouncement, if Osborne makes it. The recovery needs private sector freedom from taxes and regulation, not more spending and regulation from Government for another year. Spending cuts should come from cutting WHITE COLLAR spending. Today's report about Sure Start centres is a case in point. It is a front line service but the Committee says "The government must make more effort to work out the totality of funding that is supporting centres." Says it all, really - the government doesn't know who is spending money on what; meanwhile, there is an army of bureaucrats keeping the chaotic system going. Get rid of them, delegate the funding down to the lowest possible level, freeze budgets for 5 years and tell public servants they can pay themselves what they like, so long as they stay within their budget. Don't cut capital spending.

A good move by the Conservatives, good for the people and good for the country.

Labour, of course, throw a tantrum and expose their own hypocrisy - funding one pot using savings from another pot is just what Darling announced last week.

Finally the conservative opposition are slowly being forced to propose solid policies that can be costed and evaluated rather than soft soap and spin.

As they do such as this proposal it becomes increasingly clear that they are offering more of the same and not radical change at all.

The "efficiency" savings they claim to fund this tax cut are no more realistic than those proposed by Darling.

Taken together with the increasing long list of tax cuts and protected special interests inheritance tax, old age pension benefits, supporting marriage in the tax code, benefits for single mothers, protecting NHS and oversea aid the tories words on tackling the decifit faster and harder are meaningless platitudes.

The problem with that is if you take away the clear blue water created by their words on deficit reduction you are left with nothing, both parties are essentially the same in major policy areas.

I say better the devil you know ...

Decrying Tory plans as unfunded is rich, coming from a man who funds his every govermental department , plan, and policy on the strength of money borrowed to pay for it. We have a massive national debt, growing by at least 12 billion per month, not counting the interest accruing on the 1300 billion we already owe, and they call the Tory plans " unfunded". Another term of Labour government within the next fifty years will spell the end of Britain as an independent nation.

Sagamix..

the only reason George Osborne is in your nightmare is because he is going to be cahncellor. Government funding for UNITE will cease and not before time.

Call an election

I noticed that a Government Minister was already on TV this morning still banging on about "Tory IHT plans to cut death taxes for only 3000 of the richest estates"....despite this weary argument having been rubbished by housing market data months ago.

Typical of this Government...speak the lie often enough and the masses will believe it.

Go now!

sagamix..

the idea of you 'living and learning' is a bit like saying that leopards do change their spots after all.

Tally ho the tory hunts!

Call an election

Bill_De_Zas - I think you have the wrong website. As you'll note from the messages posted here, the co-ordination is from Conservative Central Office, hence the reason why this is not a site to go to for reasoned debate - balance long ago wet out of the equation on BBC blogs!

Refreshing, for a change, to read some good news involving taxation!

I wonder if Darling will have a sudden epiphany during the debate and acknowledge his failed opportunity to deliver a budget the country needs rather than a budget Brown thought he needed to stay in power?

But where are the Tories going to make cuts?

Where is Gideon George Osborne going to make them?

Does he know?

I have an incling.

- Schools
- NHS
- Social Services
- Police
- Sure Start

Thats right, a tax on Middle Income people like me.

The Tories just don't get it!

Well, at least the choice is now clear:

1. Tax reductions under the Tories, which will support the recovery into the medium term; paid for be public sector effiencies. Or

2. £20 bn of tax rises already announced under Labour with massive further rises to come. (I did enjoy Liam Byrne's U-turn on the tax issue!) These massive tax rises will stymie the recovery.

O, and by the way, Labour are too frightened to tell the voters their real plans for cuts, including for the NHS and education, despite being in Government!

Bit rich to expect the Tories to be more specific if Labour can't even be with all the civil service support they have.

The Tories have at last come out with a hard and fast economic promise which they will have to keep - and deliver.

The arguments are clouded in electioneering and spin against Osborne. But here is a measure that most people would actually welcome as a breath of fresh air.

Obsorne's move could backfire. After all Tories have argued for 'austerity' and this could be seen as a pre-election tax bribe. However it is the measures to cut the deficit and debt (not the same thing) which are equally significant and form part of Osborne's package.

Policies and personalities. But this election is shaping up to be all about trust and honesty. And here is something solid from a political party and something for voters to get their teeth into.

So isn't this best viewed as part of that election battle between the devil you know and the Dave you don't?

https://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-would-anyone-believe-porkie-brown.html

Saga, you have been a bad boy this morning... Both your posts taken away before 10:00...

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

@AS71: The saving the Tories will need to find will be smaller than this, because (a) Labour only planned to hike on salaries over 20k, and (b) Tories still plan to hike on salaries over c. 37k.

@Jo. Agree. Ed Balls was truly terrible - I've never been a huge fan, but this was his worst performance by some distance. Is there a touch of smugness in his refusal to answer? But he must also be feeling rather bruised after Brown said Darling would stay after the election, and after losing the battle between Brown/Balls & Mandleson/Darling. But then, since the polls have been kinder since then...

Does anyone know the "off sheet" amounts this government has run up? Everyone - Nick, are you listening - everyone in the media was hot on this when Labour first came to power, but very quiet since. If you factor in the PFI hospitals etc the debt Labour has run up is substantially *more* than even the headline figure we're being given - enough to make Greece look quite well off...

Interesting that this discussion comes about today.

I got my payslip through the post on Saturday and as ever spent five minutes looking at the income tax and NI contributions section.

I do feel as though I pay enough already. The extra 1% would be fine if I could get a guarantee that it is going where it is needed, to Cancer care, hospital beds, nurses, equipment. But too much of it appears to head towards the layers of management...

Still cant make my mind up, I have to say that the poster campaign launched by the Conservatives is one of the best I have ever seen.

By choosing that picture, with those tag lines, M&C Saatchi have enabled the Tories to attack the man, not the party. This for me leads back to when Brown was going for the experience V's novice attack on Cameron.

This election is very much about the man in charge first and the party they represent second, something I think for different reasons both Brown and Cameron are happy with. A very American approach to politics, and I think M&C have realised this and realised that the American way is to target the individual you are against.

On balance I also enjoyed the de-faced pictures of Cameron, but they were not as strong as this from the Tories.

Wee Georgies last desprate roll of the dice, before he's allowed out in front of TV cameras with some grown up people......... Will be intersting to see how he performs tonight.

#6 AS71:
"We will not know whether this is feasible until we see more detail from all parties on how they are going to reduce spending."

Precisely - and the problem is that (1) Lib-Dems and Conservatives don't have access to the true figures and (2) Labour would have to admit the true figures if they were to explain their version of cuts (or should that be 'negative investment'?).

Not implementing the NI tax-rise would be good news for business. Whether it would be equally welcome to the bloated public sector is another matter. I await tonight's debate with interest.

Erm !! Not that I wish to ruin this debate and being a simple soul but the question I keep asking myself is why would anyone trust the People that got us into the biggest financial mess in history, have overseen the biggest Transfer of power to the State

Can possibly be the best to get us out of it ?

It is the sheer waste and gross inefficiency that galls me the most, examples are all around us in every area of Government.

I shall vote Tory for only the second time in my 40 + yrs of voting

Tory Home boys are up early this morning....fair old blitz of early posts here....the word "shrill" is apt....getting nervous boys, not too big a lead despite your 13 years of "incompetence". YOu really should have sealed the deal by now but you've been smoking cigars whilst the sun shined instead of doing some "thinking". What will you do to Boy George if you lose...don't expect it will be too pretty...what, what....

"20. At 09:37am on 29 Mar 2010, dontwantthegrief wrote:
I noticed that a Government Minister was already on TV this morning still banging on about "Tory IHT plans to cut death taxes for only 3000 of the richest estates"....despite this weary argument having been rubbished by housing market data months ago.

Typical of this Government...speak the lie often enough and the masses will believe it.

Go now!"

The IHT argument really amuses me and is a total red herring. There was a report last year that showed that just under 500 MP's would have reduced IHT under the Tory Plan. Accourding the labour it will benefit 3000 people there fore 1/6 of the people effected are currently MP's!

Or would it be the case that it acctually effects a lot more that the 3000 nulabour claim and in fact in large areas of the country effects anyone with an above average house.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

So, today the difference between the parties appears to be thus:

The Tories want to tax working people less, allowing them more disposable income to spend in the wider economy.

New Labour are busy creating spoof campaign posters for comedic effect.

This round is going to the blue corner by the looks of it...

Schools were falling down and the NHS was in decline when the previous Conservative government underinvested in vital public services. Why is this headline news BBC? Does the BBC work for Tory party or something? You should only report it after experts decide it is feasible. Otherwise it just looks like propaganda and spin.

By the way Jo. I am a teacher and the Conservative education plans are rotten. Ed Balls will protect schools. Michael Gove won't with his ill thought out plans.

Ed Balls? Sagamix, really. Gordon Brown's poodle won't have a seat after the next election.

The election you will soon have to call. Finally.

Three months of negative campaigning has failed to lift newlabour out of the low thirties. It's over.

Call an election.

"25. At 09:49am on 29 Mar 2010, Vic Singh wrote:
But where are the Tories going to make cuts?

Where is Gideon George Osborne going to make them?

Does he know?

I have an incling.

- Schools
- NHS
- Social Services
- Police
- Sure Start

Thats right, a tax on Middle Income people like me.

The Tories just don't get it!"

Vic have you read last weeks budget? this/next years spending review has a PUBLISHED overall budgeted figure and its between 20 and 25% lower for most departments than the last spending review.

Do you really think that these 20-25% cuts already anounced in the small print of the budget by Labour will not mean cuts in the services you list above.

And as for the NHS Peter M anounced a 4Billion cut/budget reduction to their CURRENT budget on the day of the budget! He also removed 800million from university spending a few months ago.

Or do you still beleive Browns NuLabour investment versis Tory Cuts!

Hey come on. 9 referred, 14 referred. 38 pluckily bubbling under. Is somebody out there upset with me? If so, it's better to reply - engage in debate - rather than censor posts. Polical commentary and debate. What this board is here for.

Since 1997 this government has increased taxes, increased spending and increased the country's debt. They have shown themselves incapable of running a balanced economy in the past, how do they think they will be capable of doing it now?


The only time GoBro reduced the debt was when the mobile phone licences provided a windfall. During his time at the Treasury GoBro made life more complex, that has led to an ever increasing bureaucracy within all government departments.

The way to save government expenditure is to simplify benefits the tax system and areas where there is government input into the economy. That is something beyond the competency of Labour.

"Simplify and Save" must be the mantra of the Tory Government.

Sagamix,

What does a UNITE funded political activist know about a typical member of the public? Nothing.

Your nightmares clearly draw a blank over Ed Balls' appalling stewardship as schools minister; the closure of newlabours' own NHS hsopital wards; the illegal war in Iraq waged by newlabour and the multiculural agenda that constitutes no part of what it ever meant to be British; there has always been immigration into this country but expectations need to be managed.

Your nightmare takes place in one dimensional policy land where newlabour is not only a force for good but it is THE ONLY force for good. Not the way the rest of us see it, sagamix.

Tally ho the tory cuts. UNITE funding would be my first.

Call an election.

Brilliant.....if you want to get the economy working put money in people's pockets. Do this by taxing them less. Let the people lead this country out of the mire. Goverment should be there to facilitate people's aspirations, not to crush them under the weight of the state. I'll be interested to see how the Chancellor responds to this. For Labour to accuse the Conservatives of reckless economic pledges is priceless.

Are all of the "Lets all vote Conservative " comments real or from Dave "cool family man" Cameron's laptop. I think whoever is working at Tory HQ has slightly over egged the blogs on the BBC..... Just a quick reality check in terms of balanced opinion

George and Dave (Dave as his wife calls him so he can relate to the working man better) ARE NOT THE ANSWER
I would rather have Pol Pot running the show

undecided @ 28

"Saga, you have been a bad boy this morning? ... Both your posts taken away before 10:00..."

Sadly not. Both those posts were fine and were published, but then somebody (not you, I hope) decided they needed to go. Poor show.

Labour, partly through their own failings and partly through global circumstances, should be facing catastrophic election defeat. The current government has been in charge and (partly responsible) for the worst recession for decades, unpopular and underfunded military campaigns and the widespread abuse of parliamentary expenses. On top of this is a general feel of a need for a change after 13 years and an unpopular and unelected prime minister.

Yet despite all this many people (myself included) are seriously considering voting to keep Labour in power because the Conservative alternative is so completely lacking in conviction and credibility.

The messages coming from the Conservatives are so confused at the moment. They state they will slash the deficit but at the same time cutting taxes and giving no hint on what public services might be cut. Similarly one of the few policies Cameron has stated is a desire to remove quangos but every shadow cabinet minister seems to be setting up a new independent regulatory body (Quango) in every interview - the shadow sports minister even wants one to control football!

Even more than normal some vital and tough decisions need to be made on the economy following the next election and there is significant doubt whether Osborne has the character and ability to make these decisions. On almost every major call over the last two years his initial view does appear to have been wrong.

Unless the Tories get their act together soon and start looking like a credible government their could be the astonishing outcome of G Brown remaining as PM.

What is so tough about cutting out waste. I managed a 500 million pound plus cost budget for many years in the private sector and, with better staff training, better technology and innovation always looked to reduce the unit cost of production. For goodness sake adopt the same approach in government and you would be amazed how soon things can be done better, faster and cheaper.

Sagamix I agree with you on this occassion. I may not have agreed with the sentiments in the posts but they were ok. But then I had a coupled pulled last week that i did not think were against the rules.

"I think you have the wrong website. As you'll note from the messages posted here, the co-ordination is from Conservative Central Office,"

Ah, the old "everyone who disagree's with us is a rabid, baby eating tory paid for and bought off by Lord Ashcroft" line.

wondered how long it would take to come out. Glad to see I wasnt disappointed!

WOW over 50 posts and no mention of Lord A!

47. At 10:20am on 29 Mar 2010, Sean wrote:

Are all of the "Lets all vote Conservative " comments real or from Dave "cool family man" Cameron's laptop. I think whoever is working at Tory HQ has slightly over egged the blogs on the BBC..... Just a quick reality check in terms of balanced opinion

George and Dave (Dave as his wife calls him so he can relate to the working man better) ARE NOT THE ANSWER
I would rather have Pol Pot running the show

-----------------------------------------------------------

Funny you should mention that, my cerebellum challenged fellow poster, because under the current incumbent, thats pretty much what you HAVE got running the show.

Might suit you and your student radical politics chum, but the rest of us are fed up to the molars with it.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

It seems to me that Labour have walked into this obvious trap. They have been all too willing to announce tax rises without being prepared to address spending cuts, even when its blatantly obvious to their own supporters that there are inefficiencies and programmes that can be cut without services suffering.

What is mind blowing is that this NI cut announcement is only about 2 weeks of the borrowing being undertaken this year.

I hope there are plenty more of real proposals like this that come out over the next few weeks so at least the large proportion of uneducated in this country are finally forced to get their head around the current state of this country and join a real debate over what changes are needed. Its clear that whoever gets into power will need a mandate for massive cuts and changes we will all experience. So lets at least all get motivated, understand the issues, and go and vote.

40. At 10:10am on 29 Mar 2010, James wrote:

Schools were falling down and the NHS was in decline when the previous Conservative government underinvested in vital public services. Why is this headline news BBC? Does the BBC work for Tory party or something? You should only report it after experts decide it is feasible. Otherwise it just looks like propaganda and spin.

By the way Jo. I am a teacher and the Conservative education plans are rotten. Ed Balls will protect schools. Michael Gove won't with his ill thought out plans.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I for one would be very worried about you being a teacher, based on your previous posts... You sure you're not the husband of the former Home Secretary?

---------------------------------------------------------------
128. At 8:03pm on 23 Feb 2010, James wrote:

As a regular downloader of 300mb porn movies I am devastated by this news.

On the other hand I have become addicted to pornography and I never leave the house.

Every cloud has a silver lining I guess. Maybe it will force me out to meet an actual woman.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Still, it goes some way towards explaining your backing for Binky though....

Billy De Zas

"Charlie Whelan's rebuttal unit paying THAT well is it, Vic?? Do you get an Inner London weighting as well??? LMAO!"

Does the "Tory Madrasa" (Ybf) get paid by per e-mail or by per hour?

49#

"Yet despite all this many people (myself included) are seriously considering voting to keep Labour in power because the Conservative alternative is so completely lacking in conviction and credibility."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose that'll be the reason why the Monty Python team referred to Yorkshire as "The Third World" in The Meaning Of Life....

If I'm reading all the spin correctly the tories are saying they can save £6 billion in efficiency savings and Labour annouced last week in the budget that they made it £11 billion. The only difference appears to be when these cuts should best be implemented to aid not stifle the recovery.
The biggest worry about this proposal from Osbourne (and I agree it can't be described as a cut) is how much of it will be spent by employers on recruiting staff and how much will be pocketed in bonuses and share dividends by the rich

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

ps will someone explain to me why I'm allowed on the sport message boards and can make any comments I like un moderated but have to have all messages on here pre-moded? Not political censorship surely?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Blimey saga, who have you upset this morning??

Desperation times if you ask me.

45: RR7

Can we be clear that your Tory chums backed that "Illegal" war all the way and would have done the same. F-A-C-T...

43. sagamix wrote:
"Hey come on. 9 referred, 14 referred. 38 pluckily bubbling under. Is somebody out there upset with me? If so, it's better to reply - engage in debate - rather than censor posts. Polical commentary and debate. What this board is here for."


Agree. Whether it be the mods or a contributor doing the censoring, we don't need it.
And how long will they remain in limbo? Indefinitely? Like the cases that the DPP is sitting on??
Either remove with explanation or publish.

icewombat wrote:

"Vic have you read last weeks budget? this/next years spending review has a PUBLISHED overall budgeted figure and its between 20 and 25% lower for most departments than the last spending review.

Do you really think that these 20-25% cuts already anounced in the small print of the budget by Labour will not mean cuts in the services you list above.

And as for the NHS Peter M anounced a 4Billion cut/budget reduction to their CURRENT budget on the day of the budget! He also removed 800million from university spending a few months ago.

Or do you still beleive Browns NuLabour investment versis Tory Cuts!"

Well, unemployment seems to be falling and we seem to have slow growth.

There appear to be cuts by the goverment at the moment and it will be interesting to see Gideon Vs Eyebrows tonite.

My gut feeling is Gideon will crash and burn.

BTW I'm not Nu Labour or Labour for that matter.

At 09:51am on 29 Mar 2010, theorangeparty wrote:

The Tories have at last come out with a hard and fast economic promise which they will have to keep - and deliver.

You really expect ANY of the parties to deliver everything they promise at election time?????

Bill De Zas


You do have some gaul don't you. Labelling other users as party members, when you are one of the actual, genuine tory activists on here. I googled your name last week, and actually found your own tory party blog!

No wonder you defend Ashcroft so.

For Gods sake,Sagamix...Why are you going on and on and on about your posts being referred?

It sounds as though you're obsessed with your own publicity rather than addressing the issues of the day!

No one is interested.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

vic @ 25

"But where are the Tories going to make cuts?
Where is Gideon George Osborne going to make them?
Does he know?
I have an incling.
- Schools
- NHS
- Social Services
- Police
- Sure Start

Thats right, a tax on Middle Income people like me.
The Tories just don't get it!"

alistair darling is cutting funding on all the areas you question
i dont see how having 20 million people claiming a form of tax credit, then AD increasing the level of tax credit paid out to those claiming for children, can be costed, wheres the money coming from for this?

if i wanted to help people through the tax system, i would cut rates of taxation, not give them taxpayer's money in the form of a benefit, that allows any other benefits they claim to be cut.
add on the cost of employing thousands of people to calculate, award, adjudicate, pay out, monitor and recover over payments, and their phone/computer systems, call centres and offices, management structures, etc.
that would surely wipe out any benefit to the claimant via the system?

im trying to remember the last time the electorate got a tax cut from this labour government?

Good to see the tory activists out on mass anyway.

Bang on time - 8:40 as per usual. To defend the party line, on an important news day!

'45. At 10:20am on 29 Mar 2010, rockRobin7 wrote:

Sagamix,

What does a UNITE funded political activist know about a typical member of the public? Nothing.

Your nightmares clearly draw a blank over Ed Balls' appalling stewardship as schools minister; the closure of newlabours' own NHS hsopital wards; the illegal war in Iraq waged by newlabour and the multiculural agenda that constitutes no part of what it ever meant to be British; there has always been immigration into this country but expectations need to be managed.

Your nightmare takes place in one dimensional policy land where newlabour is not only a force for good but it is THE ONLY force for good. Not the way the rest of us see it, sagamix.

Tally ho the tory cuts. UNITE funding would be my first.

Call an election.'

More Tory piffle. Despite what you and Cameron say the Unite union is not militant. At the picket sites one sees woman and children and bouncy castles. Is this your idea of poltical militancy? These people are fighting for a decent wage and all you and your party can do is to create political mischief to hide your lack of policy. You should be ashamed of yourself. Yes and when they do call an election Labour is going to win it.

Here we go..the Mike Factor has kicked in.

I dont think he should have said this! It is better to increase N.I. Rather than cut.Given the Tories refusal to ring fence the armed forces (one of only two things that should be protected, the other being health care)then where is the money to come from?

It can not, must not,come from the existing or future armed forces!

Saga

Ha ha, not me no. I was just trying to find a bit of balance, the first 20+ posts appeared to be Tory sided.

I can only assume that the mention of having George Osbourne in your bed at night is one to far... (I am assuming that is what you were imlying after reading the responses).

Still undecided though...

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

69#

Yeah, right. And Shergar's not dead either.

71#

Oh spare me "Mike", or whichever one of the team you are, I couldnt care less. Its gone beyond boring.

Just post your three hundred rebuttals and discredits of everyone who doesnt agree with your party line in your usual half hour burst and sling your hook will you?

Osborne does have a habit of fiscal haplessness.

Let’s get this straight. He’s gone from “Ages of Austerity” to “Tax Bonanza in less than 6 months.

The tories main problem is the fact that they chase the polls too much. When they realised Labour had outflanked them on the economy (Labour are now ahead on almost every economic poll question now), they should have just stuck to their guns.

The only thing worse than unpopular economic measures is flip flopping.

Let me get this right. In the next parliament, where he will have to make £50 billion of cuts anyway. He is also promising:

1: Tax Break to married couples = 8 billion
2: Corporation tax break = 6 billion
3: NI tax break = 6 billion
4: Inheritance tax break = 8 billion

So he has to find £28 billion in cuts EXTRA to Labour. As in Labour are promising tougher cuts than Thatcher. Osborne is promising £28 billion worse than that!?

Boy George. Thank you. That’s all I can say. People are already clueless about how you will pay for what you have already promised.

Another flip flop could be priceless to Labour

Go Between @ 76...on the subject of BA strikers

"These people are fighting for a decent wage "

Hahahahaha..so you believe that 'these people' are on the poverty line,do you?

Ho....... here we go, as predicted, the return of that old family favourite.... Lets all hear it for...........



Mike Naylor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Irony is not a word in Bill De Zas vocabulary.

Bearing in mind he has flooded this board with 5x as many messages as anyone else on here this morning, already.

Big news day people. Tory press office have their plebs whipped into shape it seems!

Just post your three hundred rebuttals and discredits of everyone who doesnt agree with your party line in your usual half hour burst and sling your hook will you?

=========================================================================

Bill

You've posted 16 messages attacking anyone who dares to challenge tory party policy already this morning.

Here we go...

it's the battle between the 'non-activist' activists.
Or the 'I'm not Tory' v the 'I'm not Labour'.

69. At 10:52am on 29 Mar 2010, Vic Singh
"BTW I'm not Nu Labour or Labour for that matter."


I believe you, Vic.

"82 Let me get this right. In the next parliament, where he will have to make £50 billion of cuts anyway. He is also promising:

....

4: Inheritance tax break = 8 billion"

Mike

Could you back that up?

George Osbourne is promising an £8bn cut in IHT?

Is he really?

Can you point me to where he's done that?

I only ask because IHT only brought in £3.2bn in the 2008-9 tax year.

Anyone would think you were making up figures for effect.

"Hahahahaha..so you believe that 'these people' are on the poverty line,do you?

===========================================================================

BA cabin crew earn something like £12k a year, for a 35 hour week (average working week).

They make on average about 22k, for 55-60 hours. Including overtime and bonuses.

Your comment is quite ironic. They are basically, in regards to 35 hour week salaries, some of the lowest paid employees in the country.

Now they want to cut that even more

The only people who support colonial dinosaurs, screwing employees, are the people who are lucky enough not to have to work for them.

Let's get one thing straight. BA are cost cutting on air crew for one reason, and one reason only.

They are trying to take over the airline Iberia in 2012, and will have way too many staff if they do.

This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

82..mike...

"He’s gone from “Ages of Austerity” to “Tax Bonanza in less than 6 months."

and in the same post...

"So he has to find £28 billion in cuts EXTRA to Labour. As in Labour are promising tougher cuts than Thatcher."

Hey,Mike..make up your mind.Your brief a couple of months ago was to rubbish Tory cuts as opposed to Labour investment.

Do you get confused sometimes?

"Despite what you and Cameron say the Unite union is not militant."

Thats a beauty. Pricless, absolutely priceless.

"At the picket sites one sees woman and children and bouncy castles."

Nice to see they've got their members money to waste - bouncy castles on an industrial dispute? What has bouncy castles to do with an industrial dispute, apart from politicising the employees families and using them as a weapon? Then again, they are looking to seize control back of the Labour party from the Hampstead and Islington Champagnies who have wrought so much destruction in the last 12 years, so maybe every cloud has a silver lining...

"These people are fighting for a decent wage"

"A decent wage?"

When they're already paid BETTER than ANYONE else in the British Airline industry??? Like nearly DOUBLE what their rivals at Virgin are earning? Are you serious????

Pull the other one, I'm sure I just heard the clamorous peal of bells!

There is published evidence to support Osborne`s strategy of cutting expenditure rather than raising taxes, which is what the N?I rise means.

Raising taxes in a recession impacts on consumption and reduces demand,cutting investment expenditure is longer term and its effects are moderated by a recovering economy.

There is however a qualification.Do the cuts mean people lose their jobs?,that will impact on both consumption and revenue so he needs to tread carefully.


It`s a bold move and if managed properly may be the least worse option.

82. Mike wrote:

"Osborne does have a habit of fiscal haplessness.
Let’s get this straight. He’s gone from “Ages of Austerity” to “Tax Bonanza in less than 6 months."

True.
And Brown has gone from investment vs cuts to, in real terms, cuts vs cuts.

You will give BDZ a run for his money in the "irony" stakes.

Bill_De_Zas
Funny you should mention that, my cerebellum challenged fellow poster, because under the current incumbent, thats pretty much what you HAVE got running the show.

Might suit you and your student radical politics chum, but the rest of us are fed up to the molars with it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My student radical politics chum and I think that Pol Pot (Which was a Gordon's the boss reference,coded message you see) is doing alright at the moment. He's having a a fairly quiet week considering what he's got on his plate (organising removal men to Downing St around the May bank holiday etc)

However, I just wonder who the "rest of us who are fed up to the molars" actually are? Nobody more so than myself but are you surely suggesting that Dave is a viable alternative. That he is going to come into number 10 on his roller blades with a dart board under his arm saving the nation.
If memory serves me correct hasn't Dave had a go in office advising around 1992 and Black Wednesday.
Lets forgive and forget anyway, I am not here to pick a fight. I just hope George and Dave have still got their PPE notes from oxford. They might need to look over them before they move into 10 and 11.

As usual there is a lot of yahboo rhetoric on this board none of which clarifies anything.

During the financial year that is now coming to an end the government had the Bank of England print GBP200 billion to keep the country afloat. Sure, we can all be sensible about this and accept that this might have been better than the alternative. However, this in now way justifies the current position of the government.

There is a whole in their accounts to the tune of GBP 165 billion for this year, and the similar for the next four years and then they will have only halved the deficit. The actual national debt by then would be about GBP 1.4 trillion based on the GBP350 billion when they came into office.

This is not a case of yahboo-sucks politics this is a case of we-have-a- serious-problem-politics.

I don't think this has fully dawned on anyone.

The money has run out.

The economy is flat on its back.

Can we have a strategy please?

To blazes with all of them!

85#

Just rooting out stooges mike, just like you.

Unlike most on here, I’m not e-mailed media briefings by the party press office, with facts and figures.

I'll take your £3.2 billion as gospel

I remember reading on a BBC blog a couple of weeks back that the sitting government have to give their financial information to opposition parties before an election, and this disclosure can only happen when an election date is called.

If this is true, it looks like the Conservatives and Liberals haven't received this yet, so how can Osborne or Cable make announcements about cuts? Talk about working with one hand tied behind your back! Hardly a level playing field and I suspect it's just a dirty trick by Labour to make the opposing parties look incompetent. I'm surprised this hasn't been highlighted in the press.

The delay to call an election may suggest Labour's reluctance to give this information, and therefore makes me wonder if it's not just a strategy to make opposition parties look incompetent. Prolonged delay significantly reduces the time available to study the nation's books and produce a coherent financial strategy.

Call me cynical, but I also wonder if labour have got something to hide...

As Darling is the only one with the info, in tonight's debate he will have the advantage.

It is also becoming increasingly clear that this election will be decided by the performances of these 3 men over the coming weeks, not the party leaders.

I can't remember any other election where Chancellors and their counterparts were so centre stage. Neither can I remember such a long delay to call an election.

I also don't think this debate should go ahead until all parties are in possession of the nation's books and therefore can debate from the same facts.

Call an election now and level the playing field.

Vic Singh 25

No Vic, it's YOU that doesn't get, nor the Labour party. A tax on business, a tax on jobs, will make the country poorer and ultimately lead to lower tax receipts for public services. Everyone loses out.

As Nick says, this will define the election.

Labour damaging business and destroying jobs through their NI tax

versus

Tories helping business to create jobs.