No-one can rewrite political history

For months Labour MPs, not just Brown, kept telling us that they would invest while the Conservatives cut. They really are in trouble if they're relying on everyone having collective amnesia for them to stand a chance at the elections...

Labour seem to have fallen into the trap of assuming the electorate are as stupid as they are themselves. They're in for a hell of a shock come the election...

This is indicative of the schizophrenic nature of this government. Peter Mandelson is a bloody joke!

Great interview this morning. Is it now a given that it is Mandy who is the official spokesperson for public spending? Not the Chancellor or even dare i say it the PM? I just imagine Darling and Brown huddled around a radio with cushions on their knees that they cower behind when the difficult questions are asked. When it comes to a big issue that they know they have to re-think, send out Mandy. What a pair of weak men they are.

We all know why it is Mandy of course but just a pity that he does not realise that time for weasel words is over. Let him dig the hole and fall in it.

Can anyone believe anything newlabour ever says, ever again?

Their plans to cut spending not now but later and still no detail on where they will cut have the familiar ring of the person who is always about to give up smoking but never does. 'I'll start tomorrow...' Yeah, right.

Newlabour will never stop spending until the UK has been downgraded and interest rates have soared and the IMF has come knocking on their door. It's not in their DNA. What is hard wired into newlabour DNA is that govenment knows best and governments spend other peoples' money better than they can. I beg to differ.

After 12 years of non stop spending during which time the NHS budget has tripled; they did nothing to stop index linked final salary public sector pensions rising; the welfare budget exploded due to sure start, the work shy, immigration and every other newlabour interest group had wrung every last penny out of it we are supposed to believe they will exercise restraint. Don't make me laugh.

You can see from the Lord Mandleson comments above that newlabour apologists are still far more interested trying to find a dividing line that trying to solve the problem. They have no intention of doing anyhting about debt either tomorrow or the next day.

We have a bunch of clowns running the country.

Move over and make room for someone who takes this country seriously.

Call an election

Funny that, Nick.

They've been doing it for 12 years. You've only just noticed?

To cover up one lie, you need to tell another, then another 2 to cover the first two, then four to cover the next two and it just goes on, exponentially.

What did Blair say back in 96/97? "We will be whiter than white", wasn't it?

Cant believe a single word they say. Roll on 2010.

Peter Mandelson lied? A man of such integrity told a lie? I'm shocked.

This is why is honesty is the best policy. Sooner or later your lies come back to bite you. Not that I ever expect the Mandelsnake to ever learn that lesson.

I see Prime Minister Mandelson has spoken - does he REALLY think we are so stupid as to believe ANYTHING he says, unelected and booted out twice, that will make us think he can sort out the UK - roll on the election and oblivion for ZanuLiebour.

Peter Mandelsons is merely the mechanic for our ailing leaders life support machine.

His presence in government is an affront to our political system.

Is anyone really interested in anything he has to say?

Just shows the contempt this Government has for the electorate.
Mandy has been behind everything Brown has spouted and now expects us to believe a new trainload of lies - unbelievable.

What a surprise conflicting points of view coming from the government. Everyone knows that no matter who's in power come the next election, that there will need to be huge cuts across the whole board. Yet still Labour are creating more pointless quangos to waste more money which we just don't have.

Lets cut to the chase, I will state it, as the BBC is unable/not able to. The public sector deficit this year is going to be at least £175 billion, more likely £200 billion. More of an issue will be the inability of the treasury to raise sufficient tax income in the coming years.The idea that education and health can be ring fenced is a pipe dream.

It is likely that a 20% cut in expenditure will be required within 12 months, the gamble on keeping public expenditure high when there is insufficient monies coming in has failed. No doubt New Labour will come up with new smoke and mirrors to postpone the inevitable in the months to come, but ironically it will be the market who will decide the extent of the cutbacks.

The payback for the last 10 years of folly is now due.

Mandelson lives in a different universe to everyone else on the planet. In his world the truth is only what he wants it to be. He is the real Prime Minister using Gordon Brown as the front man for that office. He cannot and never could be trusted.

Realization droppeth as the scales from a BBC editor's eyes.

It is to be hoped that most people remember 1996/7, when Peter Madelson was the "Man Behind The Throne". His intereview this moring with Jim Naughty was positively enthalling for its disingenuousness. Back to the good old days of "SPIN". Brown knows he is probably the least popular PM since time began but to bring Mandy back from Busells, give him a peerage (after having had to resign from government twice for, worst case secnario, "errors of jugement") and then let him get up to his old tricks shows Brown in his true light. Thank God Nick Robinson was able to track down the "Labour Investment versus Tory Cuts" quote in time to throw it back at him. One realises, of coure, that, even then, Mandy merely ignored what was said. Take care everyone, the "Eminence Grise" is well and truly back! Listen to him without thinking at your peril.

Well done, Nick!

Maybe you'll be more cynical on 'line to take' spin from the government in future.

"We do not believe that we should try to solve problems simply by throwing money at them"

Mandy really said that???


Hahahahahahahaha. Haven't laughed so much in years!!!

You can't blame him for trying. The Labour party's credibility has been lost completely, even seemingly within traditional circles. So much so, that even rational statements are rubbished as incompetent lies.

At least with the Conservative party, you know what you are getting. Despite the supposed lack of substance, it is believable that they keep their policies to themselves so Labour cannot use them!

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This should really come as no surprise given Labour's constant dodging of this issue. Now the truth is out along with the realisation that Gordon Brown's government has tried to take the British electorate for a bunch of fools. Who is Mr 10% now?

Over the weekend Alan Johnson claimed the Tories had called the biggest decision of the Century wrong - that of using spending to get through the recession.

Did Brown therefore call the the other side of the equation (and an equally large decision) wrong - how the deficit caused by the spending should be reduced?

It suggests that Brown made the easy decision to keep spending with no idea how to deal with the additional consequences the policy was sure to cause.

Any recession can be delayed by increases in Government spending, when you are happy to put the burden of debt on future Governments to avoid your own Government having to deal with it - and that is what this Government has done - they have delayed the pain, not eliminated it. They clearly had no idea as to how they would deal with the pain when it would inevitably return, which is why Brown hammered on about Tory cuts. Their prime focus was on delaying it until after the election.

Even now they are petrified to remove their foot from the accelerator, because that is when the second dip is most likely to come, so the accelerator remains flat to the floor, and borrowing continues to rise.

We still have the VAT to increase to pre cut levels, Stamp Duty to be reimposed, for the car scrappage scheme to end, for interest rates to rise to realistic levels and for Government spending to be cut and tax to increase to pay off some of the debt that this Government has accumulated.

Only then can Labours attempts to pull the country out of recession truly be judged as being successful or otherwise. At this point they will be seen for what they have actually done - delay the pain, not remove it.

Brown, as Chancellor, claimed to have abolished Boom and Bust. Instead through over spending, he gave us perhaps 8 years of boom, we now face 20 of bust.

#5 Fubar
Whiter than white? I'm afraid this Government is Browner than Brown!!!

Mr Robinson you try to make the proverbial silk-purse from the sow's ear even when you are following a Radio 4 Today item in which the 2 leading Politicans systematically deconstructed the interviewers' questions: They never got close to having either one depart from their Party's allotted political-message path.

Whatever one thinks of Mandelsohn (and not much of it would be pleasant) the man is a consumate 'Politician'.

This morning he took over the Today interview! Mandelsohn got his NuLab message over loud, clear and concisely without a verbal challenging glove being laid on him. Naughtie was frankly out of his depth as the usual technique of bullying intervention failed completely.

Of course, whether one then agrees with the content of Mandelsohn's contribution is an entirely different matter: To my ears it seemed to me he was conceding the Conservatives had got it right about 'serious cuts' having to be made very shortly, but, denied the Conservatives had any plausible plans except 'across the board' on 'front-line services'.

Moments later, the Tory battlecruiser supreme (and sad loss as never a PM of the UK), Ken Clarke weighed anchor and hit Mandelsohn just above the waterline by pointing out "Brown wont admit cuts... so they daren't say it openly..".

All good knock-about-stuff: Pity neither one seemed too concerned about the UK's population and much more interested in vote-catching Party points!

So will Brown give the TUC conference the good news this week — about public spending cuts? I really doubt it, not unless he summons up some of that stuff he's writes books about.

Perhaps, you'd try the same question on Gordon Brown as David Cameron, Nick, "Leadership, I suggested to him, was about being clear about the pain that voters — not just MPs and ministers — might have to suffer."

Politically I'm no great fan of Peter Oborne, but his book on political lying summed this up brilliantly. This particular brand of doublethink is more than Mandelson's modus operandi - it's practically his trademark.

Labour have forgotten how to tell the truth. They are insitutionally deceitful.

That is one of the reasons the public hate Labour - treat us like fools and we'll boot you out................

Why is the Dark Lord talking (well, lying, actually) to us about the economy and public sector spending?

Don't we have a Chancellor for that?

And, given the looming national emergency that is the British economy, why isn't the First Lord of the Treasury fronting up to the British people about this extremely important matter? Too busy apologising for past court convictions presumably? That's a damned sight easier than fixing the economy.

The Government is an unmitigated shambles; an embarrassment to the nation; political journeymen and shysters. The 12-year Blair/Brown sham has finally started to unravel uncontrollably. Twas always going to happen.

Now we, the British people, are going to pay for it; and some. I just hope that the lumpenproletariat will now at long last realise that Marxism doesn't work; never has; never will.

Watch out now for the trade union dinosaurs chucking their weight about. Cameron will need to slip a steel rod down his back if he finds himself in 10 Downing Street next year. My money's on the next decade being the toughest since the first half of the last century, at least.

Meantime, as far as this Government is concerned, Solzhenitsyn had it right: "Don't believe them, don't fear them, don't ask anything of them".

#4 rockRobin7

No, you're right, it's virtually impossible to take the government's claims at face value.

However, for once, I agreed with Lord Mandelson - we need targeted cuts thought through carefully rather than the swingeing cuts that the Conservatives are proposing. To start cutting hundreds of thousands of jobs in the public sector would be economic suicide.

Also, dramatic cuts in public sector jobs is highly likely to have a knock-on effect in the private sector and the government will look ridiculous if they criticise it.

The IMF, consequently, has warned against cutting stimulus measures so I think it unlikely that they'll be knocking on our door anytime soon.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see the government come-up with some plans for reducing the deficit - hopefully they'll amount to more than getting Conservative councils to run the country!

When are New Labour going to wake up to the fact that, in the age of the Internet and Google, they cannot get away with lying to us any more.

'At least with the Conservative party, you know what you are getting. Despite the supposed lack of substance, it is believable that they keep their policies to themselves so Labour cannot use them!'
Eh?

Its getting a bit embarrassing watching NuLabour squirm.

10% - surely that's NuLabours share of the vote at the GE, if they are lucky!

Roll On 2010

I think a quick look back at Hansard will reveal the PM making that statement on any number of occasions "The issue is that the Conservatives will cut current expenditure in real and cash terms. It is exactly what I said - Tory cuts, Labour investment." was more a 'mantra' than a 'sound bite'!

However, of course, we must remember that Lord Meddlesome will bit have been in the Commons to hear the PM say it.

A good summary but I'm surprised that you continue to claim that Andrew Lansley 'blurted out' the 10% comment as if it was an indescretion.

It was, in fact, the natural follow on from the Conservatives pledge to maintain spending in health and education and in line with their other statements at the time. Lansley simply put a nice round figure on it which of course the media love as it makes their job much easier.

I'm sure at the time that Brown believed he'd come up with one of those "dividing lines" he likes in party politics. Pity was he hadn't thought it through (again - but like the 10p tax band fiasco!).

Mandelson did talk about planned "efficiency savings" in government spending areas. Traditionally, efficiency is measured by getting more productivity out of people, hardware (and software) either by increased throughput or reduction of assets.

This lot have sometimes grouped a bunch of civil servants and their gear and bundled them into a QANGO, claiming it was a reduction of direct departmental spend (hence the cost of central government). Nonsense, of course, from a tax-payer's perspective... Shiney new premises and some shoe-in QANGOcrats, with all the special communications etc do not an "efficiency saving" make.

And a brand new QANGO will add another bit of social engineering by having a state-sponsored assessment of whether I can trust my neighbour to take my children to school or some club activities.

Meanwhile a state owned public company (Royal Mail Group) has been allowed - by its owners - to rack up pension liabilities that far exceed the ability to close the gap...

Any more "efficiency" savings and we'll all be bankrupt.

Brown and Mandleson think themselves oh so smart.
This labour government has got to be the most foolish yet!
Labour ministers and union leaders are saying that the Tories will make cuts now. Correct me if I am wrong but labour are in power for the best part of another year, so how can the Tories make cuts now.

Mandy claims to speak for the people. Let me speak for the people , I demand that he is arrested for Treason against the Country , he is lying about everything and has put the state at risk

Big Brother , you could not make this up hahaha

On a general note, Mandelson and the Labour Spin Dryer must be seething at this slip of the Dark Lord's tongue ... and it's instant exposure as a lie by Nick Robinson.

Let's just hope that the BBC doesn't let this serious matter fall by the wayside - the matter of an unelected Peer of the Realm (with a dodgy track record in the mortgage market) deliberately trying to deceive the British people ... all in the name of keeping Gordon Brown in power. Sod-all to do with the wellbeing of the nation.

The way Politicians see themselves in the run-up to the next General Election is all about their selling of Policy images, or if you prefer the everyday titles Spin and Brain-Washing too make their brands more acceptable to the Voting Public.

To achieve this end all these same Political Parties HAVE TO attack their rivals regardless of any sanity in opposite opinions, and do also wherever is necessary by adjusting their own mantra as many times that is needed to project the view that if you Vote for someone other then them, then you will be worse off.

The problems that the U.K. Economy is in will suffer worse than expected due to the need for a General Election being held in the forthcoming future, while at this moment in time People are losing their Job's AFTER the Government has pumped in Billions of Pounds of Public/Tax-Payers money into our Banking sectors, only to find that CEO's of Companies both in the Private and Public sectors are still making Million of Pounds in Bonuses while the Working-Classes, and our Younger Working age generation are both unable to find, or are being made redundant from Employment.

Therefore, for the foreseeable future all the Politicians know full well that the "Only" thing that they will be manageing is the projected, and very high levels of Unemployment, with no views in prospect for the medium, and long-term in how too reduce these Unemployment numbers, for the state of British Industry is in Terminal Crisis, with no ideas as to what developments are needed for future exports after the next General Election, and Post-Recession, for the next stage in Britains development in the World market place has been sofar unattended to by any Political Party, other than the Views that you Cut, Cut, and Cut again away from the spending power of People avoiding from adding to the National Debt, while at the same time killing-off medium and small time Business who will go under due to a lack of personal cash in the the pockets of the Public at Large, that will have to be cut back also due to our National Debt.

So, with this Catch 22 upon us, ALL the Political Parties are walking a tightrope, by simply not knowing what to say next, other than what might in the heat of of the moment sound acceptable, only to find that events have over taken their comments at the next turn.

Labour have been in power for 12 years and nearly all of the UK infrastructure is creaking sewers, roads, railways, schools, hospitals, airports, docks, shipbuilding, manufacturing facilities etc etc and I keep hearing Labour ministers saying there are new opportunities to do ... X, Y and Z.

Yes! these opportuninites have arisen because of waste coupled with a lack of proper government planning of services/infrastructure and a tax and fiscal based incentive plan to encourage age distribution throughout the working population to provide an adequate tax base/birth rate/population structure.

This also means treating OAP's with respect and creating fiscal incentives for them to take up more suitable new build accommodation without stairs and make it worthwhile for them releasing their homes so that these are available for purchase/rent, on the property market. This would help reduce the housing shortage. This is also competent planning of resources to which this government appears to have an allergic reaction.

Britain has had virtually nil energy planning during the last twelve years and now we import most of our fuel and energy from abroad and population is set to soar to 70 million plus with Mr Alan Johnson 'sleeping well'.

The government has over-seen absurd levels of over-lending by the UK mortgage industry on both residential and commercial property - that was the hidden time bomb that has brought everything crashing.

Only in one area have Labour contributed to significantly enhanced performance in the form of agricultural production - there is now more poppy growing in Afghanistan and poppy production and distribution is at a record high.

Let's get one thing straight - the next election is more dependent on trust, integrity and competence than it is about who cuts which service how, where, when and by how much.

As to New Labour continually 'learning lessons' - they've given us one big lesson in 'how not to govern the UK successfully and competently'.

All I keep on thinking how right Orwell was in 1984, with people trying to re-write history and change tack. I think we need a conviction politician at this point and I can't see any one up to it at the moment.

After the Libyan debacle, when no-one wanted to say to he was let out as a trade deal and then every one started changing there minds, before Gordon utter a word apart from England & Wales Cricket team's Ashes win, etc. It just seems typical of the Government and they are expecting us to believe it?

I heard PM on the Radio and he was about as bull headed and scary as anything i have ever heard.

This non-elected minister appears to be running our country instead of Broon.

It is terrifying that we now have a manipulative spokesperson for the government. Can't say the word 'cuts'!?

Is there any possibility of getting some human beings into government, rather than these script reading dinosaurs?

I suppose he won't be able to say the word 'election' soon, instead calling it a 'redressing of the political landscape to ensure the continuity of government.'

This does not make me feel comfortable at all.

So, when Gordon Brown quoted a [Call Me Dave] Cameron comment, that made the sentiment expressed the Prime Minister's own?

Tommy rot!

(That is a quote by the way, one which may or may not be appropriate and one with which I may or may not agree.)

GOOD journalism would have seen an examination of the source which the PM was himself quoting.

As to the claim of Lord Mandelson's re-writing, Nick Robinson states that the First Secretary of State merely "suggested the words had never actually been used."

What DID he say? (In light of recent contentious lapses, I no longer trust the editorialisation which pervades NR's broadcasts.)

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The very fact that Brown and Mandelson are still in power is an affront to democracy. Caledonian Comment

I thought Alistair Darling was Chancellor and it is he who is responsible for how our money is spent. Is Mandy now doing his job as well as that of PM? I don`t think Alistair is going to be too pleased about this. Watch this space; but has Mandy gone a step too far. If I was Gordon I would be a tad worried about a coup in the next few weeks.

I'm glad they've dropped the "Lab investment vs C cuts", that was never going to hold - better to create a "we'll do it but with a Heavy Heart, whereas they will just luv it" type vibe ... which is what LMOHAY is trying to do here

and will it work? ... dunno

Mandy says "the voters have a clear choice" and I for once agree with him.
The choice is to vote for anyone except New Labour.

I wonder whether any Labour politicians ever read these blogs, as the amount of well deserved anger on them would surely be a huge wake up call.

'Wise spenders, not big spenders' is a line that clearly illustrates newlabour have simply not grasped the problem.

Stop spending.

What would a doctor say to an alcoholic who cliamed he was now going to be a 'Wise drinker, not a big drinker'

Newlabour still playing the elcetorate for fools.

Totally agree with Roll_On_2010 - the sound of newlabour politicians squirming and squealing in interviews is highly amusing. my how Mandleson squirmed this morning; he needs to get himself enroled on an anger management course.

But then again; if you were having to constantly intervene to represent Darling and Gordon Brown because they couldn't get their message across you'd be a bit angry.

I also love the patheitc attempt to portray the tories as uncaring, dangerous, axe-weilding lunatics, salivating at cutting public spending.... just how difficult is it to take ten percent off budgets that have tripled over twelve years? Just how difficult is it to take 60,000 workers off the payroll of 600,000 added by newlabour when many of them are diversity officers; equality advisors and other random newlabour agenda hunters?

Cut spending? Newlabour can't even say it, never mind do it.

Call an election.

Well done, spin unspun! Mandy and Campbell will take notice.

To prevent some more spin on Brown's line that it will cost you less if you borrow more now, some numbers about the deficit and debt at grassroots level:

-the deficit per worker in the private sector will amount to 12,760 pounds this year and next (20% of 1.5 trillion GDP divided by 23.5 million);

-the structural deficit, i.e. the deficit that will still be recorded after recovery to trend growth, will be 4,250 pounds per year per person working in the private sector (7% GDP structural deficit forecast by OECD);

-the government debt may hit 114,890 pounds per person working in the private sector (180% debt-to-GDP ratio as bearish European Commission forecast)

As comparison, the median UK wage is just below 25 thousand, with public sector employees on higher wages than their private sector funders.

SurreyABC

"I think we need a conviction politician"


Conviction politician" is an oxymoron.... You know just like "The Right Honourable Peter Mandleson"

"Our 1997 manifesto described the New Labour approach as being 'wise spenders, not big spenders'. This is and remains a core New Labour principle. We do not believe that we should try to solve problems simply by throwing money at them."

Mandelson may believe what he says. A lot of people suffer like that.

However, the government he served were not simply big, but profligate, spenders.

Wise spenders? Hollow laughter.

(And, by the way, when does our next major power generating station come on line?)

Well done to Nick for nailing Lord Mandelson's erroneous claim that Brown had not used those words when talking about 'labour investments versus tory cuts'.

In the Today interview, Mandelelson said "Nick was unable to put his finger on any such quote" (Listen at 03:02).

When confronted on air with the actual quote, Mandelson was left burbling "of course I don't know the context in which he said this". (Listen at 13:20) What a disingenuous answer!

Will Mandelson now apologise for suggesting Nick had given incorrect information? Will Mandelson apologise to the British public for misleading us (albeit, I am sure, inadvertently)?

Unfortunately for Lord Mandelson, no one really takes anything he or New Labour says seriously anymore.

Let us not forget that Lord Mandelson recently said suggestions that the release of the Lockerbie bomber was linked to a UK-Libya trade deal were "offensive" - BBC report 22 August

A few days later, Jack Straw admitted that 'trade was "a very big part" of the 2007 talks that led to the prisoner deal with Libya'. BBC report 5 September

If they can't get their act together, why should we trust them on anything?

I hope this is the beginning of all media outlets having the guts to call our politicans (of whatever colour) to heel when they tell outright lies. The British public deserve to be told the truth as the forthcoming election is one of the most crucial in decades.
Keep it up Nick.

I'm actually begining to feel a little sorry for Gordon Brown. He doesn't seem to have a clue about what the way forward is. He's stuck in the past and has people around him leading the way. If anyone actually believes that Gordon is running the country anymore then I'd be amazed. The coup that so nearly happened earlier in the year must have actually suceeded without anyone actually admitting it.

This U-turn on their position over spending just serves to show that Brown is not willing to lie to us all in order to win the next election. The Conservatives might say they're going to cut spending, but at least they're honest about it. With Labour, the only thing we can be sure of is that the Prime Minister will continue to make the entire country look like idiots.

I have to say that those who accused DC of being a little boring at PMQs pressing the same point week after week and pushing Brown to come out with this rubbish in reply are not looking quite as clever now. I am hopeful that our next PM will be capable of strategic thinking as well as clever tactics.

We have a leader who cannot lead, and who certainly cannot communicate. He has hired a communicator - Lord Mandelson to help out. Perhaps now he could also hire a leader just to complete the job.
With or without the right policies there is no way that anyone in their right mind should vote Gordon Brown into office. He lacks so many of the qualities needed for a PM that just his presence would impede even the best policies.
Note his recent "apology" for the treatment of Alan Turing after the war. We know Brown hates to apologise - he thinks it shows weakness and might even imply some responsibility - so what does he do? He thinks a little and comes up with the brilliant idea that he should apologise for something for which he was not responsible. Thus, in one bold move, by apologising for the treatment of Turing he has shown he can apologise and at the same time he need not admit to an error, because Turing's treatment was nothing to do with him! Brown's personality and psychological makeup should preclude him from any leadership role whatsoever.

Politician with lips moving probably means some lying going on!

As an ex-PM said at the dispatch box when a heated PMQ was in full flow in their final days "we are quite enjoying this!". I am too. Cant wait for Browns speech tomorrow. Bet he will not be sleeping soundly tonight. Great! Suffer Mr Brown.........like what we have since you have been in power.

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One foot in each camp eh NICK? Not sure which way to go? Notseen you like this previously this year.

Niether Labour or the Tories seem to be particularly good at managing our money, especially in terms of spending it and obtaining real value.

Usually the exact opposite occurs, they squander the tax revenue in the most profligate ways.

So, the subject matter of this blog entry 'Tory cuts' versus 'Labour investment' rather seems pretty academic to this blogger.

Labour party members, Voldemort in particular, lying? Say it ain't so!

Blair,Brown and Mandelson, the 'brains' behind New labour. And three of the most reviled people in this country. Enough said.

Whilst I've been an avid reader of BBC blogs for some time, this one has made me feel compelled to register and comment!

I am frankly amazed at the audacity of this position by Mandelson, whilst neutral politically I have become appalled at the government's mismanagement of the country.

We need to cut spending now, not necessarily public sector jobs, but pensions and these ridiculous initiatives. One poster commented on the proposed register for people volunteering with children, this is a prime example.

What is going to be the cost of this new quango? Whilst it is very important to protect children, this is seemingly disproportionate and unnecessary in the current economic climate.

I understand it was brought in after the Soham murders (a most heinous crime might I add) but the reality is no amount of quangoes can protect EVERYONE no matter if you spent £1000's per child.

The government need to learn the lessons of business soon, when sales are low you need to cut expenditure fact. Sadly all the time the Quantitive Easing happens and bond markets continue you to buy our debt no-one will tackle the problem.

We will end up in a repeat of the '79 fiasco sooner rather than later, perhaps not the IMF bailout, but in the collapse of bond markets.

"He who controls the past controls the future.."

Double Plus Good...

From the BBC report: Asked about whether Trident and ID cards could be cancelled, Lord Mandelson said it was not certain "that the assumptions that some people are making about that those big projects would offer would actually come about in reality.
Would that be a "no" then?

"sagamix wrote:
I'm glad they've dropped the "Lab investment vs C cuts", that was never going to hold - better to create a "we'll do it but with a Heavy Heart, whereas they will just luv it" type vibe ... which is what LMOHAY is trying to do here

and will it work? ... dunno"

Labour aren't going to make these cuts with a "heavy heart" they are making them because they have started to realise that they need to at least appear to live in the real world to stand any chance of being re-elected.

New Labour would sell not just their grannys but all their close relatives to remain in power.

SurreyABC

"I think we need a conviction politician"

No! - what we want is a number of politicians convicted!!

THE MINUTE YOU WALKED IN THE JOINT,

I could see you were a man of distinction,
A real WISE spender,
Good looking, so refined.
Say, wouldn't you like to know
What's going on in my mind?

So, let me get right to the point,
I don't pop my cork for ev'ry guy I see.
Hey, WISE spender, spend...
A little time with...me...me...me!
Do you wanna have fun?

My God, I think you've got it, Nick!!

Politicians lie. All the time. And for the last 12 years, BBC economic and political journalists (and supposedly good ones, too) went into interviews with senior Liebour party politicians having seemingly done minimal research of the subject on which they are talking. They simply accepted any old rubbish and lies. And didn't have the evidence to repudiate the line.

May be, just may be, a few senior journalists are waking up to the fact that they shouldn't really just be spouting from the New Liebour press release.

But then I heard Sheila Fogherty and Pauline McColl on 5 Live this morning. And my heart sank.

Well done, NR. Is this the new, impartial Nick? We may have to reconsider your nickname. To so spendidly hold a politicians' words to account, so nicely, regardless of party, is very refreshing.

51#

Conviction Politicians?

No, just more politicians convicted. That'd be a good start.

So it appears then that the official government line is to encourage a run on sterling, swingeing interest rate hikes and rampant inflation.

Weimar here we come! Perhaps I should invest in brown textile and jackboot futures.

Heyyyyy. Nick. So a Labour politician disembled the actualite. To you. Personally. Tried to tell you black was white?

Welcome to the club. Now you know how the rest of us have felt in fantasy island this past 12 years.

Promised you a referendum on PR and then reneged, promised you a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and then reneged by simply changing the name?

Denied they ever used the phrase 'Tory cuts 'v' Labour investment'?

Pathological liars this government.

Go after them Nick. You remember? The way y'all went after Major et al.

A good one for the rewriting history books is also Brown's 1992 letter in The Evening Standard in which he wrote "weak currency is the result of a weak economy which is the result of a weak government".

Last year, that same Brown rubbished Osborne when he warned about the consequences of high deficits and debt on sterling. The latter was unpatriotic.

Haa!

Lord Mandy's testy calls exposed in public - how very unfortunate!

Mandelson is proof that those who seek power are the last who should ever get it. Politics is a game to you gentlemen, but you're playing with the lives of millions of people. To say you're 'outnumbered' carries threatening undertones, which is not my agenda, but let me just remind you that you're now surfing the wave of a minority party and the cliffs of the citizens are looming big and powerful. Do I want a Conservative government? No, I'm not wealthy/poor enough to benefit. Do I want a Lib Dem Government? No, not really. The Lib Dems are a great idea in theory, but in practice, I think they would crumble under the pressure. I want a Government that supports those who go out and work for a living, who aren't afraid of a bit of hard graft, who look after their families, don't commit crimes, and are valuable assets to their communities: that was supposed to be New Labour wasn't it?

I woke up to grumpiness this morning, as the early news seemed to be not much more than a free trailer for what the noble lord was going to say, where he was going to say it and how it important it was.
The day rapidly got better, however. Please ensure he gets as much time as he wants on the Today programme etc. as the election approaches. The once-master of the dark arts doesn't seem to realise that he now comes across as a complete shyster as bereft of positive ideas as the rest of his chums.

Brown/Labour have boxed the country into a very difficult corner thanks to their massive negligence over the last 12 years.

Their policy since 1997 was to grow the state as big as they could while igoring the private sector. ie creating false jobs in the public sector to help reduce unemployment, rather than allowing people to keep more of their own cash in the first place and thereby stimulating/growing the private sector.

It was always destined to fail, because there obviously comes a point when what's left of the private sector simply can't afford to bankroll the public sector anymore when the public sector gets proportionally so massive.

These are basic rules of maths/economics which they chose to completely ignore for 12 years; the public sector has no money of its own, it's essentially funded 100% by the private sector. You can't spend more money than you earn without going bust.

So, now we're left in a situation where the state is too big to be funded/fundable and we're forced to make cuts on a scale which will drive up unemployment which in turn will make things even worse.

What Brown/Labour have done is put us into a situation where we have no choice but to effectively cut millions of public sector jobs (either that or as a country we go bankrupt and back to the stone age).

We're in 1979 territory now, where we have to cut the size of the state because there's simply no choice. Short term pain for long term sustainability and to avoid national bankruptcy.

We do need cuts, but hopefully they can stave off cutting too many jobs for the moment while the recession is still bad, and instead cut future projects (like ID cards or trident) and start to manage things better, which won't effect unemployment but which will reduce the debt going forwards. Then allow natural wastage to happen (eg when someone retires, you don't replace them with someone new).

Natural wastage, eliminating pointless government projects that haven't started yet, and generally managing things better; that's the way to go. Once the recession's over and the private sector is in a better state, then they can start looking at job cuts, but not yet; it's too dangerous. Much as I'd like to say "just sack all the public sector pen-pushers that we don't need", I don't think that's the right thing to do now, because the private sector isn't in a state that's able to employ them.

Labour/Brown; what you've done has put us all into a corner where we have to choose the least-worst option to avoid national bankruptcy; your negligence will not be forgotten.

Liars. New labour lies. New Labour spin. Rubbish new labour policy.

Not a jot of it has worked; if there was no Blair legacy there is certainly no Brown legacy.

This country desrves better than a Berlusconi type government addicted to lying.

Where is the integrity, the far sighted thinking, the leadership.

This government couldn't guide you down a difficult path never mind the difficult economic times that lie ahead.

If acceptance is the first step on the road to recovery then thsi government is heading for a long spell in oblivion.

An agenda is not a policy - a mistake new labour seem to have committed time and time again. The equality agenda; the social justice agenda and so on...all got us nowhere except high handed politicians without results. All staffed by hundreds of new labour placemen and advised by hundreds of new labour consultants. All a total waste of money.

Call an election - we have been taken for fools for long enough.

History repeats itself.
Labour ushers in the 1970's once again; but not out of nostalgia but out of incompetence.

Give them their due, the Tories and the Liberals have been highlighting the need to balance the books for 12 months now.
Yet up until very recently the Evil Overlord Brown and his puppets "Mandle-Foy the Pink" and "Grimer Worm Darling" have continued to extol the virtues of unfettered spending and debt.

However, something is happening in the UK that hasn't happened for an age.
The UK public is begining to wake up and will find that they are strong.
Strong enough to overthrow the Brown dictatorship.
Strong enough to tear down the walls of Westminster.
Strong enough smite labour's ruin across the capital.

Out with Labour.
Out with unelected Titled buffoons.
Out with career politicians that have no life experience.

Ian Pearson Minister to the treasury ... you have had access to proposals to stimulate the economy, usher in sustainable industries providing environmentally friendly zero carbon energy.
What did you do with the proposal Ian Pearson Minister to the treasury?

YOU DID NOTHING...
Do nothing ministers, from a do nothing government with a do nothing Prime Minister.

I sincerely hope that Labour as a political entity is completely destroyed at the general election.

Hansard is a great source for embarrassing politicians. I remember Hoon's announcement in the HoC on the new high speed rail travel lines and the benefits it would bring to the manufacturing industry. It sounded fantastic at the time but a day later when the actual smallprint of the deals was made known, his speech, now recorded for posterity in Hansard, looked very duplicitous.

You should use it (Hansard) more often, Nick.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#51 CarrotsneedaQUANGO2:
SurreyABC

"Conviction politician" is an oxymoron.... You know just like "The Right Honourable Peter Mandleson"

I had been hoping that the conviction was of the criminal variety...

One of the most interesting things to be wtaching has been in the US where every state has faced a budget shortfall. Most have been cutting budgets between 10% - 20%. Seems like this has been difficult but has been accomplihed. Both Labour and Tories were on duty during the financial collapse and neither looked out for the public interest so both have responsbilities. The Banks and Financial industries caused the problem and they should be a part of the discussion. Not just the cuts in spending but also about what regulations will be put in place so the bankers cannot do this again. Cuts may be necessary but if nothing else changes we will be watching this movie again.

#67
'From the BBC report: Asked about whether Trident and ID cards could be cancelled, Lord Mandelson said it was not certain "that the assumptions that some people are making about that those big projects would offer would actually come about in reality.
Would that be a "no" then?'
Not necessarily!

@JC #62

John while it maybe or may not be true that both waste the money.

There is one thing that is indesputable, the Conservatives will inherentally endeavour to tax less therefore will have less to waste.

There's the dividing line that Brown likes to see.

Its a clear choice between money wasted on public services or More money wasted on public services

child of 72 @ 65

we will end up with a repeat of the 1979 fiasco sooner rather than later

the return of a Tory government? ... yes that may indeed come to pass, unless we shape up

Now even the spin-meister appears to be spinning out of control!
Downing Street rapidly put out a statement after the Today programme.

"The prime minister's spokesman stressed the business secretary's comments should not be taken to indicate that a review of the Trident and ID card programmes was under way.

Speaking at a daily briefing of Westminster reporters, the spokesman said: "I wouldn't characterise it as a review... The government's position on Trident remains exactly as it has been."

He added: "I think [Lord Mandelson] was talking in very generic terms. The government is very clear that there are obviously tough choices to be made on public spending over the coming years."


If you exclude major projects from the selection of things to make "tough choices" about, the benefit is that the choices don't get so tough! That should make it easier for Gordon...

There have been a number of interviews over the last few days, including this one:

Brown to claim recession over as union boss warns of poll disaster.

In his most outspoken interview yet Derek Simpson, the joint general secretary of Unite, escalated the threat of a Labour civil war by describing the Secretary of State for Business and Foreign Secretary as "thick" and "Tories".

Well I never, Meddlesome and Millipede Thick and Tories, Who am I to disagree!

One of the cries we keep hearing from Labour politicians is that the Tories have not and will not spell out the details of their spending cuts. Yet today at the LSE we have Mandelson telling us exactly where the Tory cuts will be made.
Wow!! Not only is he the most honest man on planet Earth but he has now been blessed with the gift of reading David Cameron's mind.
How lucky we are as a nation that such talented people exist to govern us. :-)

Have the Labour party really spun a full 360 degrees? Or are you accusing Mandy of telling pork pies

What next?

Please call for the election

Mandelson is so ahead of himself he knows the whole of the Tory manifesto before they've even written it.

He had nothing new to say about what Labour will do so obviously they do not know themselves but plenty on what he surmises the tories will do.

He's back to 1997 when there was a public so eager to get rid of the tories they believed everything they were told about this marvellous new party New Labout.

Unfortunately 12 years later they have been proven to be empty words and words are the only things left in Mandelsons portfolio.

We desperately need a party that can do as well as say.

A politician being 'economical with the truth' - goodness ! whatever next ?

Brown is in deep do-do right now as the economic policies he implemented have come to fruition - so I expect he has the view that 'in for a penny in for a pound' - whats a few more half truths now ?

You've all heard the budgets over the last 12 years - say one thing , give the electorate something else. He'll be gone soon enough and good riddance

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Seems to me all cuts made by any party will be "Labour cuts", as Labour's amazing recklessness will have caused them.

Rather than come clean, they'll probably say that cutting now is actually an investment for the future, and that is what they meant.

Shouldn't Mandelson be better occupied by actually paying more attention to one of the remits of his job? Namely the student funding fiasco for Universities!

This is just plain incompetence - if he had any integrity whatsoever he would fall on his sword over this. As to his speech, Labour must act like "insurgents rather than incumbents" on public spending. What on earth is he on about? Did he have magic mushrooms for breakfast?

82. At 1:30pm on 14 Sep 2009, Invader-Zim wrote:
History repeats itself.
Labour ushers in the 1970's once again; but not out of nostalgia but out of incompetence.

Give them their due, the Tories and the Liberals have been highlighting the need to balance the books for 12 months now.
Yet up until very recently the Evil Overlord Brown and his puppets "Mandle-Foy the Pink" and "Grimer Worm Darling" have continued to extol the virtues of unfettered spending and debt.

However, something is happening in the UK that hasn't happened for an age.
The UK public is begining to wake up and will find that they are strong.
Strong enough to overthrow the Brown dictatorship.
Strong enough to tear down the walls of Westminster.
Strong enough smite labour's ruin across the capital.

Out with Labour.
Out with unelected Titled buffoons.
Out with career politicians that have no life experience.

Ian Pearson Minister to the treasury ... you have had access to proposals to stimulate the economy, usher in sustainable industries providing environmentally friendly zero carbon energy.
What did you do with the proposal Ian Pearson Minister to the treasury?

YOU DID NOTHING...
Do nothing ministers, from a do nothing government with a do nothing Prime Minister.

I sincerely hope that Labour as a political entity is completely destroyed at the general election

I don't think i could have put it better my self