Gordon gets personal

I'm pleased he's finally decided to make this speech personal becaaue that's exactly the issue the electorate has with him - personal.

Call an election please and we'll show you what we think about Gordon Brown personally.

Cue the Closed Mind Chorus ......................................

When will he get it. It is not about whether he will win or not! It is about whether he will lead.

His problem was that he could have done something whilst he was Chancellor, he must have known about the financial crisis. He was around for the dot com boom. Well what did he do, he with the Americans put off the day of reckoning by baling out the market.

Where was he as a senior member of the governmnet over Iraq. Nothing, he is as much to blame as Tony Blair. He just mouthed platitudes when forced to. He is neither one thing nor the other.

He is paternalistic, he thinks he is uncle Gordon, he is a despot. He must go, will somebody wield the knife. I have said previously about Julius Caesar, it is the most appropriate of Shakespeares plays for these times. They must all do it together.

I will listen with great interest but I am so sorry but the son of the Manse must go. He is no leader, he is the Captain of a Dreadnought. Not even the Titanic, which was unsinkable is a good comparison.

The Dreadnoughts were built for a war in which they were useless, tey were out of date as soon as they were built, they were finished by submarines, they could be holed below the waterline by a tiny underseaboat. Well this government is fatally holed below the waterline. There is no crown to pass on, they are finished, I wish they would sink without trace.

He doesn't know who he is any more.

This morning we had Douglas Alexandra tell us on BBC news that this government will be judged on what they will do not on the past.Can we belive any promise given for the futre by Gordon the man who denied us a referendum .And if they really think that why do they keep banging on about how bad the tories were.

Nick,

Since Brown was apparently (according to Andrew Neal) rehearsing the speech in the hall for two hours last night and again this morning, you are doubtless in a position to know. (And don't tell me your technology did not capture it, even if you were locked out personally).

I shall reserve judgment until after he has bored me to death:-)

The reason that it is not MAKE OR BREAK is because he is already completely broken.

The only question is when the replacement will be installed.

I think labour are completely correct when they say he is head and sholders above any other candidate for the party leadership.

That is why he must be replaced as PM by someone of another party.

If Brown doesn't call a general election, then the best he can do for the country is keep the rest of his rabble out of the top seat untill the election comes.

the problem with Brown is it's never his fault. I watched the Andrew Marr interview which was quite frankly stomach churning. He asked for time to set out his vision. I've seen it and don't want to be a part of it. Unfortunately, I can't decide whether Brown is just stupid or arrogant ( or perhaps a mixture of both?). I am pretty certain he will not be leading the party at the next election.... whether or not his speech is a success today ( and lets face it... based on past ones it will be a nails down the blackboard bad one) will merely buy him time until the Glenrothes by election which he will lose badly and then will be forced out

re: 1 RobinJD

very true; it is indeed very personal; the man's been personally in charge of the money and basically all domestic policy for the last 11 years (blair just concentrated on foreign affairs and left brown to everything else), and Brown is always very quick to say that he's personally the person who deserves credit whenever it looks like something has gone right in the world.

Logic dictates that he's therefore also the person who everyone should blame whenever anything goes wrong in the world.

And my oh my how it's all gone wrong.

A man who deliberately lies to pensioners about their energy rebates just for a laugh deserves every kind of character attack that he gets.

I think ,as always , that politicians and commentators seriously underestimate the good sense and judgement of the Public. It is perfectly clear, and has been since early autumn 2007 that Gordon Brown is at best a number 2, never a number 1, his predecessor ,war criminal and all looks good against sad old Gordon...he is and will always be out of his depth, very much like John Major. Perhaps that is the only similarity between Blair and Thatcher in that they both left the hotseat to morons.....Mageret Thatcher because she was betrayed by her party....Blair because he could..

#3 T A Griffin (TAG): "The Dreadnoughts were built for a war in which they were useless, tey were out of date as soon as they were built, they were finished by submarines.."

Surely that's not right? The submarine was little threat to the main Battleship during WW1, as I understand it. The main threat was the Motor Torpedo Boat, which led to the building of the whole new class of ships - the Torpedo Boat Destroyers - as fleet escorts. The MTBs were much faster than any sub, and used the same weapon. Even in WW2, in spite of some submarine successes, the main threat to the battleship, and the reason they became obsolete, was the development of air power.

You never know, perhaps your political analysis is equally flawed?

This morning we had Douglas Alexandra tell us on BBC news that this government will be judged on what they will do not on the past.

Nope Doug. I think you'll find you will be judged on the past. Because we can see what you've done. You have left us practically bankrupt, with massive pay commitments to an army of public employees that we should have culled by 50% over the last ten years.

You will not be judged on what you 'offer' because we don't trust a word that comes out of your collective mouths.

And with good reason.

Funny though that they don't want to be judged by their past but all their apparatchik disinformation at the moment is directed towards an afternoon of 12% interest rates 20 years ago.

I say we should judge Labour on the last time the bankrupt the nation. 1976. Helllooooo IMF.

Coming again to a country near you.

Brown's speech will be important, but Nick is right that it will be the public who decides.

Brown is in an especially interesting position as he has only actually made two mistakes as PM, (The election that never was and the 10p tax fiasco) but his inability to come across to people means that he becomes branded by his opponents and their jibes stick. Once the polls come out minor dislikes are confirmed and they spiral.

If he can come across as genuine and convey what is evidently important to him in a sincere and theatrical enough way to sate the party (and the media) it will signify a change in presentation which may carry him forward.

How far forward is another matter.

the 'closed mind chorus' ... jimbrandt?

So was it with an open mind the Gordon Brown stood against the 10p tax brigade?

Was it with an open mnd that Gordon Brown waived through the financing of the Iraq war? 'let's just see if we find anything, huh?'

Was it an open mind that allowed public and private debt to ballon to record levels before they popped.

Does Gordon Brown's 'open mind' decide we don't need to fulfill the newlabour manifesto pledges?

Is it an open mind that listens to his special advisor Ed balls or jsut one that is closed to everyone else's ideas?

Did gordon's 'listening' mode give us 42 day detention and the most spied upon western society.

Is it an 'open mind' that will subsidise broadband acces for the poor or jsut one that wants to 'read their minds' as he snoops on us even more?

The truth is out there but Gordon Brown couldn't see it if it knocked on the door of Downing Street and presented itself to him.

Call an election if you want to see some open minds open their minds about Gordon Brown.

Hi Nick, I think the whole context of the speech highlights the problem for Gordon Brown. He was unanimously elected by the Labour Party not long ago and here is he is having to make the speech of his life to keep his job. It highlights not so much his failings as prime minister but divisions in a parlimentary labour party that has lost it's way.

Gordon Brown might have been better to skip the conference and remain in London playing the national leader in a time of crisis. One reason Tony Blair was such a successful leader was that he paid lip service to a party that was ill at ease with him. He always tried to appeal directly to the electorate which gave him huge personal authority and ultimatly political authority with the labour party.

A lot of MP's owe their seats to the Tony Blair factor which just can't be said of Gordon Brown. I think he might have been better to take a leaf out of John Major's book and directly address the nation like he did during the first gulf war. It allowed him to build a relationship with the electorate which served him well in the 1992 election.

Bye bye Browny

The problem is one of 'connecting with the people'. When Brown speaks you have no sense that he speaks in any language that we understand. Blair spoke our language, Straw does, Major did, and many years ago so did James Callaghan. Brown talks in platitudes 'taking the long term decisions' is one of his worst and it is not apparent that there is any action behind the words.

He is finished unless he presents a vision backed up by action in words that we (the general public) can understand.

I am not sure that 'internet for all' will qualify. For example people(both rich and poor) would be more interested in lower taxes, higher allowances and less complication in the tax system. This would enable them to make their own choices rather than have 'nanny tell them what to do' again!

It will not matter if he talks all afternoon, no one is remotly interested in listening to his mantra "In the long term, whatever it takes, I am the right man to see us throgh the dificult times" We are all sick of hearing it repeated over and over and over again.
We are waiting for an election to get rid.

He has to stay on!

Let's face it, his good work over the past 10 years or so is the reason Britian has prospered and now even gets the chance to feel the pinch in this world-wide financial problem.

He has done well until now, never falling into the trap of defending himself and making himself look good at the expense of the country, so he must be our best bet to get us through this latest world episode. He has the know-how and the experience to do the job... let him get on with it.

OK, he is not perfect, but what politian is? But with the alternative being the popularity seeking and image obessed David Cameron (haven't we had enough of that already?), i think we are as well of as we can expect in these turbulent economic times.

Add that to the fact that he is a decent bloke and you come out with a pretty decent candidate for PM. Come on UK, think clearly... do you really want DC in charge?

The yuck factor; the personality problems eg turning up late to sign a treaty in a little room on his own; staying around long enoughto destroy his reputation as chancellor and six months of debate about when he should go- Mr Brown is not able to continue the premiership.

Just heard Alistair Campbell deflect Andrew Neil's question about the ballooning public borrowing requirement. Trouble with politicians (Campbell included) is a complete lack of honesty - Brown blew it when he was deficit spending during the boom years and however they try to dress it up, that was downright irresponsible!

Gordon gets personal....

has it occured to Gordon that "trust me, I'm a politician" is not a line that rings quite right?

This is our country Labour, not yours, and we don't want you ruining it any more.

We want a general election, nothing else will do.

Interesting choice of music to take the stage to. Surely "Should I stay or should I go" would have been a better choice?

3, I'm afraid you're final analogy is inaccurate, Dreadnought actually revolutionised naval warfare and it would be aircraft carriers, not subs, that would rend them obsolete some thirty years later (though dreadnough ceased to be used after WWI the battleships and cruisers up to WWII were evolutions of the design). I think even those who like Gordon would be hard pressed to defend that comparison...

However, perhaps Gordon Brown might be a clunking old Dreadnought in the modern age of nuclear-powered aircraft carriers and sophisticated missilery but that's a different story!

As chancellor he claimed to have abolished boom and bust - guess what, he failed. He's had a year as PM to show us his vision - he failed again. Now he wants us to trust him with even more time! He should just accept his failures, shuffle off and let someone else (anyone else) have a go.

This member of the public watched ten seconds of the broadcast with the sound turned off. The man was chuckling and chortling!

Very unnerving. Bit like being grinned at by a funeral director. Most unseemly and unsettling.

I need a lie-down in a darkened room.

It suits Brown to deflect the real traumas facing Britain today. His policies and lust for power mean that he took his eye off regulation of the city financiers. To say that the Labout Party shouldn't look inwards at this point, when HE created the problem, is ridiculous.

Oh lord.

"Mr Brown says his children "aren't props; they're people", which is a dig at David Cameron"

Well, they weren't props... right up to this moment. And now they are.

So what does that make Sarah Brown then? The Prime Prop? Or as we're apparently continuing Blair's Presidential pretensions, the First Lady of Prop?

Classic passive-aggressive behaviour. He hides behind his wife's skirts (bottle gone again?) then doesn't even have the courage and integrity to say what he means directly. Snipe and sneer. That's what you do when you're in opposition, not when you aspire to lead the nation.

As a Scot, I profusely apologise, both in general, and specifically for Brown. Thanks for taking him off our hands, and please, please, don't send him back.

Gordon Brown - the man who stole our pensions and wasted most of our, yes our, money - is banging on about fairness.

I am going to be sick.

I am a jeweller and like every one else I know in the trade, none of us can understand why he sold of our gold so cheaply. Surly no one should be allowed to sell of the countries wealth the way this man did.

I could never trust this party or this man or labour. I remember some the three day week, the terrible secondray modern schools and the mess we are in now is all down to this socialist model, thrust appon us. Every time we get a labour party in power, we end up like this, and it is going to be something like the 1929 slump before it finally starts to recover.

Maggie may have done some bad things but at least she stood up to the unions.

Brown and Blair alone with all there sycophants to back them up have brough our wonderful country to its knees. It has been one of lies and lies and more lies since they gained power. I do not know of any promise they have made and kept.

We have a scotish party in power in England who basically hate the English.

Its time to let them all go and come out of Europe, we dont need them and will make it on our own.

Yours Sincerely

very fed up with all the lies and feather nester.

There seems to be a media campaign based on a world view that see's the M25 as a border and not a motorway that Brown is finished! Well maybe, but it seems to reflect a general desire for him to be replaced by a Blair clone of some description and seemingly any party. So if you are private school, Oxbridge and 'youthful' you are de facto "a leader". If state school, red brick and showing a few wrinkles you are "out of your depth". Only to be alleviated by spilling up your emotional guts up on TV preferably about personal pain or historical struggles. This of course once called for and delivered is a sign of "weakness". I would love to blame all of this on a media obsessed on the trivial and innane. But I have a horrible fear that this nonsense reflects on us all and will result in the country losing a statesman and gaining a showman and calling that progress.

"Cue the Closed Mind Chorus ......................................"

That is only a mirror of the typical response people get from this shambolic Government.


As for people who disagree with Brown having a closed mind? I would claim the opposite, in fact it is labour supporters that blindly follow and offer their deference to the appalling labour Government that have closed minds. Closed to the reason that labour are 28 points behind in the polls and facing a complete wipe-out at the next election, whether Brown leads them or not!


It shows how bad things are when he has to get his wife to defend him. Then he tries to appeal to the heart and get personal and tell us who he thinks he is.

It is too late for that. We knew he was a shallow charlatan before the Blair coup.

He wants us to know what motivates him...WE DON'T CARE! We just want a Prime Minister who has the understanding, ability and knowledge to fix what is wrong with the country.

He happens to be a major cause of many of the things that are wrong, so it is very unlikely that he can fix them.

So he should get the hell out of the way and make way for someone who does.

he is no longer fulfilling the promises made in the 2005 Manifesto and so is in defiance of British Democracy.

Brown is finished and we can all see so far through the scripted fake "sideshow" in Manchester that he may as well call an election instead of demonstrate his delusions and fantasies before the poor deluded masses in Manchester. Anything less than that is not good enough and is a total abdication of his responsibility to the country.

"It will be the public, and not one speech,".

I would also remind you Nick that it will be the public and not a journalist who decides.

Ron Taylor

I'm switching off now. I can't take any more.

Please somebody rid us of this hypocrite.

Although I watch footie and enjoy a good game there is nothing more boring than a team lacking in zest and a nil-nil score with a penalty shoot-out. I mean why bother with the game, just have the penalty shoot-out, you could have the whole thing sorted in no time. Its all so Labourious when the score is nil-nil.

This speech is utterly nauseating, sentimental drivel and devoid of intelligent content. "A British century?" Huh? "A global economy poised to double in size"?

I see that he's spending yet more money (childcare places this time); still, if annual borrowings are already heading towards £90bn, I don't suppose the odd billion here or there makes much difference............

The opening song should have been this Boz Scaggs track:
"Just Go"

This speech is lie after lie.

'My kids are not props'

Well lookie here (pic 7):
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6701961.stm

'Finance should be transparent'

Mr Brown, add PFI debt to the balance sheets please, and lets see just how much the country is in the red.

'X* new jobs'

*made up number from immigration and 'fake' public posts.


Why will the people interviewing him not bring him up on these lies? The BBC and all other outlets should be ashamed.

I think a kind of mass 'group think' has taken hold of the public when it comes to Gordon Brown and it has little to do with policies, record and abilities and a lot to do with personality, communication and the desire to find a scape goat.

Compare Brown to Major in the last years of the Tory administration: Black Wednesday, Cash for Questions, The 'Sword of Truth', Back to Basics - compared to scrapping 10p tax and lacking slick communication skills. Labour's problem is that they lack the aggression and sophistication they had in the Campbell years, and are unable to bat away the media's accusations.

What is it the Tories would do that warrants their 20 point lead? Their policies are thin on the ground and they have spent the past 3 years carrying out an extended PR project. Their leader is an insubstantial PR man with no purpose other than personal ambition and does not have the record of public service and conviction that Brown has. Cameron is a second rate Blair, and what we need is a serious, statesman-like Brown to show up this insubstantial slick PR man.

The Brown speech going to be like trying to gloss over a stagnant pond thats whiffing. Can't be done.

He's out of ideas, his internal opponents are out of ideas.

Labour are sinking and its an impossibility for them to sink much further. I am starting to wonder though whether the New Labour project won't have killed Labour in ten years. There is no political momentum or stirring ideology or even cosmetic leadership.

"Listening Gordon" lasted several weeks. Now the spin doctors give us "New Gordon" - but whats new? Till the Ides of March?

Miliband is going to slide into the mistake Portillo made in that if you are seen to be "an assassin" who never strikes then he will look both disloyal and weak.

A new leader means an election and they can't win.

The other parties don't look great. The Tories should have been baying for an election and it says an awful lot that they are not. Will Cameron bottle it?

The Lib Dems for once have positioned themselves better but as always the electoral system will hinder fairness and Clegg is not an inspiration to me.

So in one of the biggest crises to face the country for decades we have political paralysis and probable inaction till 2010 at worst.

Spending money like there's no tomorrow.

And now he's going to find a cure for cancer.

When we get to the end of the speech, are they going to bring in a swimming pool for him to walk across?

He accuses David Cameron of using family props and then allows his wife to take the rostrum. Yet another example of sheer hypocrisy!

# 12

This crisis of capitalist "free enterprise" in the banking sector, U ... agree that it's a problem? ... agree that it's not due to socialism?

Just YES and YES will suffice but by all means tag on a bit of "it's all gone on quangos" if U feel the need.

Problem for you Brown is NOBODY is listening to you anymore.

I have no interest in what you are saying as none of it will ever happen.

Too much rhetoric, very little action.

For the love of god just be quiet and call an election.

I am not interested in this mans personal political ambitions. It's about the British people and the country, not about him. The population did not choose him to lead them (I know we operate a party system but Labour were voted in under the promise Blair would serve a full 3rd term, regardless of your opinions on the man). He should do the right thing and stand aside but he won't due to his absolute obsession with one thing - himself and his place in history. The people of this country want him out and his party want him out. yet he will not go. His selfishness and arrogance astounds me.

Although I am English and live in England, even I can see that native Scots are already deciding that Alex Salmond is the Prime Minister of Scotland.

Furthermore, Salmond has real political legitimacy because the people of Scotland have voted for him.

Brown has been imposed on us English via internal party mechanisms, and has no direct mandate from the English people.

And when he finally asks for it in a General Election, I believe that the English will not choose somebody from another country any more to be their Prime Minister.

It has become politically untenable.

39:

The point is surely the similarity between Major and Brown. Both had no chance of re-election. Both were discredited. Both were hanging on to the last possible minute.

If your point is that Major's government was awful, I agree, totally. But this one is every bit as bad.

And yes, the scary thing is that, where Brown is another Major, Cameron may be another Blair. Oh dear.

# 14 Robin

Thinking things over, I think I owe you an apology. I shouldn't keep sniping at what you're saying. You are misguided in most of your views but I have a feeling that you are sincere in putting them forward. In that, you seem to be a little bit different to most of the small minded, mean spirited reactionaries on here ... an odd mix of buffoons and lunatics, I'm sure you'll agree!

So, Robin, please do carry on sharing your views with us because I sense that all is not lost with you. All I ask is that you have a little think before you publish. For example ... "they have trashed the currency" ... "it's all gone on quangos" ... you cheapen your other points when you shout silly stuff like that.

Watched the speech - not impressed - Rome is burning and Nero Brown is offering us unfunded trinkets like "all two year olds having access to nursery places" or legislating for "an end to child poverty" (we could legislate for an end to war if we wanted to, but it would be pointless gesture politics). I give it 3 out of 10.

It is the agenda that Brown has lost control of. When he can't control the agenda he panics.

In the run up to the last Labour Conference he was nicely in control, probably worried about the looming world financial mess, but he felt reasonably in control. Then there was the announcement by the Tories of raising the Death Duty Threshold. It was well received and he paniced. Ever since then he and his government have fallen victim to suggestions created by the media, other parties and even from within his own party.

The way it works is this. The source says, "The government is considering removing stamp duty for the next year." The problem for the government is that they may have considered it and have not totally ruled it out. As there is no immediate denial, expectation rises that this will happen. If they agree to cut stamp duty straight away, they are accused of panic and a knee jerk reaction. If they spend time making their minds up they are accused of dithering. If they finally agree that it would be a good idea, they are accused of being weak and bending to public pressure. If they do less than suggested by the initial rumour , they are accused of of raising everyone's expectations. In such a climate Brown doesn't stand a chance.

John Major suffered in a similar way. Blair charmed his way through it until this relentless way of thinking won through. Thatcher was a victim too. All defeated by the 'let's criticise and destroy' machine. Such a mechanism is inevitable, but the problem is that the 'build up and praise' machine does not get an outing. Every parent, teacher, employer knows that if you find something to praise about someone you will get an overall improvement.

In anticipation of cheap jibes, anyone who retorts that Brown has done absolutely no good at all is blinkered and demonstrates an inability to develop a reasoned argument.

Should Brown go? I think yes. Not because he is making poor decisions, but because he has lost control of the agenda in this country and this makes him appear to be a poor leader.

46:

Spot on. Clever people, the Scots; they get the elected and very able Salmond, and they send us Brown.

Well, by GB's standards, that wasn't such a terrible speech.

I think a kind of mass 'group think' has taken hold of the public when it comes to Gordon Brown

Yep. They've finally woken up from their slumbers. The Emporer has no clothes. The 'miracle' economy was just a miracle of public and private borrowing. Now we can't borrow any more the miracle has stopped. Except for Gordon. He's going to keep borrowing.

Compare Brown to Major in the last years of the Tory administration: Black Wednesday, Cash for Questions, The 'Sword of Truth', Back to Basics - compared to scrapping 10p tax

Why stop at the 10p tax? Aren't you forgetting the Iraq war? ID cards? 42 day detention? Northern Rock? And why settle for going back 12 or 15 years. Lets go back 32 years to 1976. Country bankrupt. Inflation 25%+. IMF on speed dial.

Interesting quote from Jack Straw today:-

"Gordon Brown was elected 15 months ago because of his record and his promise".

I'd challenge this on every front:-

1) He was not elected 15 months ago by anybody. He has no mandate to lead the country and worse still has demonstrated from day 1 that he has no ability to lead the country, hence why he won't allow anybody the chance of an election.

2) His record is now being shown to be the sham that everyone (barring readers of The Sun) knew it to be. A prudent chancellor would have saved money in the good times knowing that it would be needed come the bad. A prudent chancellor wouldn't have created the pensions crisis by removing the right to reclaim tax credit. A prudent chancellor wouldn't have wated the billions of pounds in unfair taxes that he steals from all of us. A prudent chancellor would have seen these current problems coming instead of encouraging the whole country to live on mountains of debt.

Basically the boom years of the last decade were in spite of Gordon Brown not because of him. If he had been the cause of the boom years we could maybe trust him to know how to navigate through the bad years. Instead we know he hasn't the faintest idea and yet won't allow the country the choice it deserves to get rid of him while we still have a chance to survive recession!

This crisis of capitalist "free enterprise" in the banking sector, U ... agree that it's a problem? ... agree that it's not due to socialism?

Why would I agree with something that is demonstrably untrue?

This country is in an economic crisis because this socialist government has squandered all our money and committed us to paying for a million extra of their voters. Fact.

Just say YES.

Even if you refuse to acknowledge this self-evident fact you are in a minority of 24% and dwindling.

Gordon Brown's address to his party was the greatest example of fiddling while Rome burns I have ever listened ot.

More long term self righteous unattainable energy targets (not one met yet)

"no bank should take on risk it does not understand" ... but you created this regulatory framework Gordon and thenm refused to tkae the rap when it failed.

"free market dogma"... but you freed up the Bank of England and then failed to monitor the system... o yes, let's replace it with ideological dogma.

The sight of a tearful Nelly and Glenys Kinnock in the crowd listening to Gordon Brown's speech only served to reassure that there was absolutely nothing of substance whatsoever.

Yet agian, over one year in to the biggest financial crisis facing the country we are given lots of 'targets' and not the manner or method of delivery for any of it.

The man is a fake.. talk a big game while you slowly watch the country disintegrate down to the lowest common denominator.

# 46 JayCee

Well we have a big problem then, don't we, given that for most English people, Eton is far more of Another Country than Scotland is ... you advocating a vote for Clegg?

and what we need is a serious, statesman-like Brown

Too bad we have a scheming, incompetent socialist Brown then.

pretty standard speech - i had to turn it off when he started praising Harman's equalities bill

i nearly found myself believing the bumph, and then i remembered something, as gordon stood up there speaking about how much he'd done and how noble labour were, i remembered that they allowed the acquisition of hbos with a guarantee on scottish jobs, no one else - real nobility there, pure party politics at work

don't believe the tripe

This was the most patronising rubbish I've heard in a long time. If it was intended to impress anyone other than the blank faced Labour delegates, it failed. The speech was best suited to the pulpit with the constant "you knows" and semi religious platitudes. The man is in total denial. He talked, the delegates clapped, but why they clapped only the almighty knows, there was no substance, merely claims of achievements, promises for ten years hence and half truths. If he had any of the integrity he claims, he would call a general election now.

I can't bear to listen to this man's lies and stupidity anymore; I'm guessing that most other people think the same; really doesn't matter what he says because there are only a handful of people left listening to him, and the few that are listening don't believe him.

Please just call an election Gordon; you're finished and we don't want our country ruined any more than it already is.

The Queen appointed him the PM, right?

There you go. We elect parties, not people.

So that was the new Brown approach.

Same as usual. More of the same. hardly anything new. Tinkering round the edges. Bore and tax us into submission.

In my opinion he won't lead Labour into the next election.

something else i hate about labour

andrew neil pointed out to i think* ken Livingstone (not sure, but it was a lefty), that the public debt had increased to over 6% since Labour came in

his retort was of course that they had tripled spending on everything

no arguments with how much you've spent - one problem: you spent what you didn't earn!

Nick, this speech is irrelevant. We already know enough.

Speaking as one of the "closed mind chorus," I have a question for you Jimbrant.

Fact 1. Government spending is out of control. (Example - 90,000 a year employed by the state since 1997 / endless gimicks like free internet for the poor etc etc etc)

Fact 2. Government borrowing is now up to the limit. (Warnnings of imminent 5% tax rises because the government can no longer borrow.

Based on these unarguable facts, the future government of this country now have two choices, either massively slash spending or declare bankruptcy.

Jimbrant. How can you support the contention that Gordon Brown is anything other than an incompetent fool and unfit to be Prime Minister?

The problems of Brown are nothing to do with the credit crunch and the effects that is having; indeed nor is it about whether he's the right man for the job.

No - it's far more simple than that.

The problems began when Gordon Brown snuck in the back door after Blair.

I remember the electorate voting Tony Blair in.

Can't quite remember them voting in Gordon Brown...

For me and many others, this is the problem.

it started with a plea from his wife to be nice to Gordon because he means well. what followed was an orgy of organised leader adulation, not seen since the demise of the soviet era. They clapped at the end of every sentence whether or not he actually said anything relevant. He then claimed credit for saving 240,000 lives, for saving northern Rock and the whole of the free world's economy, he promised, inter alia, a cure for cancer, not sure if he really said he would link pensions to earnings, was going to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050 and also promised free prescription to cancer sufferers, etc etc etc. The whole speech sounded very plausible and full of good intention....However who exactly has been in government for the past ten years? It was like the past had never existed, lets wipe the memory clean and start again. The message was "dont worry, i really care so i will fix it, please give me another chance". I am not sure the UK electorate will buy this, and they will surely be asking themselves, where is all the money going to come from?

"Before every leader's speech, the spin doctors always say that they will be highly personal.."

It was highly 'poisonal' as the New Joisy mafia might say..

He mentioned the names of those he wanted to 'behave themselves' and 'be loyal' and then studiously ignored those like Miliband and Darling who he might dump if it became rather expedient to do without them..

Make no mistake, the likes of Blears and Harman will have heard, loud and clear, that they had 'better be on their best behaviour'.

Or it's 'coytains' for you and 'you'll be swimming wid da fishes..'

Instead we know he hasn't the faintest idea and yet won't allow the country the choice it deserves to get rid of him while we still have a chance to survive recession!

Barring absolutely staggering amounts of 'borrowing for investment in infrastructure' (national debt or budget deficit to you and me) a nasty, deep recession is a nailed on certainty. Meanwhile the disinformation squad is out in force claiming how uniquely placed we are to weather this 'global' crisis. Yeah. Sure we are.

Even the OECD reckons we are already in recession. Mortgage numbers down to the lowest since records began in 1997. House prices down 12% in a year. Belts tightening all over the country. The UK's banks on the ropes with no money to lend anybody. Having borrowed all their money and more in the previous decade as the great British public did what they always do when their house increases in value. Go mad.

But apparently it's not Gordon's fault. It's the yankee banks. If they hadn't saddled our banks with dodgy collateral then our banks would have been able to just keep lending even more money. For ever and ever and ever. Our houses would just have gone up exponentially in value indefinitely if it wasn't for the yanks and their dodgy loans.

And this is the moonshine we are being fed. Not Gordon's fault. The yanks fault.

Pull the other one.

I am quite emotional after PM's speech.
How dare he, one more time he has not listened to what the people are saying.
What on earth is he saying.
No word on scraping the ID cards we don't want and can't afford.
No word on scraping the EU that we don't want and can't afford.
No chance Of him saying sorry for interfering in our lives and keeping his nose out in future.
So, more Spying, Lying, Fines, etc.
Has he tried to get an appointment to see a doctor lately? (NHS). The most of the work they do is repeat prescriptions.
Why must Labour spend so much of their time slagging off other parties.
We have spent 11 years watching GB go down the pan, and Labour was the party in power

Just having a recap.

Am I right in thinking that the Labour speakers have been talking like the opposition? Non of the speeches seem to sound like a party in government. "Taking on the Tories" seems to be said very often.

Just a feeling.

Moral must be very low.

47: You haven't explained why Brown is as bad as Major. I gave specific instances of where the Tories were much worse, but you have not provided equivalent reasons for why Labour are as bad.

JC -

You do realise that Salmond is leader of a minority govt and has less mandate than Brown.

No matter how much we moan about it we live in a parliamentary democracy whereby the peading party chooses who their leader is and who by default becomes PM.

As for the English only voting for the English - are you really saying that teh English are that bigoted they could only vote for an English person?

Surely not.

"Will decide", Nick? We already have. Dead man walking. The question is, how much more damage can he do before he goes? And then, how much more damage can New Labour do before they go?

Gordon Brown and Labour will not be able to rejoin with people as for so long they have been dishonest.
PFI in hospitals that will cost us a fortune, even though Brown has kept the huge amount of money we own the private companies off the balance sheets which he decries the banks for doing. Saying taxes had funded many of the projects when in fact they raided the Lottery Fund to provide basic diagnostic machines, just to keep his dishonest accounting under the table.
The continued under funding of our Armed Forces, fighting for a cause that Labour took us to war for and now the bust in the economy. Those who knew him to be a bit of a dodgy accountant knew he had spent the huge surpluses left him by the Tories and now Labour are borrowing more and more money.
There are so many more lies and broken promises that Labour defies credibility. So much for prudence!

#57

I share your obvious distaste for 'political elites' whether they be from Eton or indeed Fettes.

This Englishman always votes for the independent candidate.

No Cleggovers here.

I can't bear to listen to this man's lies and stupidity anymore; I'm guessing that most other people think the same;

About 76% of voters who expressed an interest feel the same.

It's the other 24% you have to worry about. What will it take for the scales to fall from their eyes? I guess there are none so blind as those who will not see. And that includes Gordon Brown himself.

Actually I really object to Brown starting off that speech on not using his Children:

BROWN - "My Children are not props but people"

https://ts17.gazettelive.co.uk/Gordeon-brown.jpg
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Second picture found in the Daily Mail this time. How can anyone trust a word he says?

At 1:40pm on 23 Sep 2008, T A Griffin (TAG) wrote:

//
Where was he as a senior member of the governmnet over Iraq
//

Writing the cheques for the bombs and bullets that killed so many innocent Iraqis, that's where he was. Yes, by all current terms, he too is a war criminal.

I am studying at home today for exams which isn't a great deal of fun. But at least I wasn't sitting amongst that bunch of hypocritical champagne socialists.

I suppose I should always remember the mantra 'there's always somebody worse off than yourself'.

#56 RobinJD - You're right. The country's going down the pan and he's busy patting the back of the NHS workers so that they'll vote for him at the next general election. Utterly sickening.

Brown may have other reasons for nodding the HBOS deal through but managing to get jobs to be saved in Scotland but not in Halifax. The Maxwell flat:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/595923.stmThe Mortgage deal
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556730/Flat-deal-will-mean-tax-savings-for-Brown.html He lies in his conference speech, can you expect him to be truthful about HBOS jobs? BROWN - "My Children are not props but people" https://ts17.gazettelive.co.uk/Gordeon-brown.jpg [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] Second picture found in the Daily Mail this time. How can anyone trust a word he says?

32 - Oxondon:-

"....Media campaign....will result in us losing a statesman and gaining a showman and calling that progress"

It's not a media campaign that will result in us losing a statesman, it's the fact that Brown isn't a statesman and never will be!

The only people who've tried to portray him as a statesman ARE the media - ie Brown controlled propaganda machines (Daily Mirror etc).

Being a statesman involves more than trying to speak slowly and clearly and putting on a few false hand gestures!

The PM tells Labour members it is their "duty" to focus on the problems facing Britain - What a numpty 60% of NuLabour members have and said they want Duff Gordon to Go. Whilst 52% of the public believe we are led by Crash Gordon. Hey Duff or Crash - it cant get more personal.

Have heard a strong rumour that the Glenrothes by-by-election will be held on November 6th, pity Thursday dosent fall a day earlier this year! it would be more appropriate.

Brown may have other reasons for nodding the HBOS deal through but managing to get jobs to be saved in Scotland but not in Halifax.

The Maxwell flat:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/595923.stmThe Mortgage deal

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556730/Flat-deal-will-mean-tax-savings-for-Brown.html

He lies in his conference speech, can you expect him to be truthful about HBOS jobs?

BROWN - "My Children are not props but people"

https://ts17.gazettelive.co.uk/Gordeon-brown.jpg

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] Second

picture found in the Daily Mail this time.

How can anyone trust a word he says?

Great speech has filled me with hope and fairness for all. I just hope the press and media generally will now concentrate on what the public want to know - the future and what each party can achieve not what is going on in " Westminster Village " We the public need proper reporting in order to form a proper opinion please .

@ 39 "and what we need is a serious, statesman-like Brown to show up this insubstantial slick PR man. "

Yeah, where have you been for the last year?

In the year+ long competition between the "insubstantial slick PR man" and the "statesman-like Brown" Brown has turned a 13 point lead into a 28 point deficit.

It seems that Cameron's Conservatives are clearly showing up the statesman LITE Brown.

Pretty accurate me think #32. One problem though, Brown did go to Edinburgh Uni not exactly a low ranking University. The main
thing is we are all tired of Labour. Had enough. Same thing with the Conservatives from the 80's and 90's. We got tired of them. People forget that under the conservatives there were technically two recessions. The Tories had an identity crisis afte 97 because New Labour were so similar. Interesting speech by Brown. May re-unite the party. Andy Burnham has just praised the BBC and related the Paralympic Coverage to Labour values (you must be cringing at that). At the same time Brown is a far easier target to have a go at. They may have harmed the country in some ways but it seems each administration has. Who is to say the Tories would do any better? At least Scotland has more than a two party system

He looks just like he is going to throw up just before he speaks, whilst most of us vomit when he actually talks.

Gordon's idea of "fairness" is taking money from people who earn it and giving it to people who don't earn it.

"Based on these unarguable facts, the future government of this country now have two choices, either massively slash spending or declare bankruptcy."


We don't need to do either.

Reading the comments from both sides it's clear that the speech has not changed opinions, just perhaps re-inforced them.

Given that Labour are far behind in the polls surely this has to count as a failure.

The lost eye in a rugby accident adversity'sympathy card was played yet again. How many of us are now not aware of this bit of historical fact? I have a treated eye tumour which could possibly spread and kill me. I don't bring it up with my friends or acquaintances at every opportunity to get them on side.

#11

Wrong, the fleet was mainly kept at home because they were terrified that they may be lost. As for my political analysis, somehow I don't think so. Who was the novice he referred to David Cameron or David Millibland.

Kinnock on radio 5 what an obnoxious man, little bag carriers indeed. We were so lucky not to have the awful windbag as our Prime Minister. Why don't they just send him off into the sunset.

The tide will come in for labour, well a week is a long time in politics and it comes in and goes out. Time and tide wait for no man.

73 Clive Jenkins

Weren't you once a union leader. I

Thought you had died and gone to Utopia.

Nice to have you back. The teachers need you - again!!!

This man refused let Blair win his election for him as he knew he couldn't win it himself. He then refusedd to call an election on the basis that he would lose it and has shown that he cares more about having power than he does about using it wisely.

Why would anyone be interested in what he's got to say? It's either lies or nonsense anyway.

#57

'we' do not have a problem. To an English person Eton is an example of one of the finest public schools in the land. (no, I didn't go to it or any other). We are proud of it and our heritage.

Unlike the newlabour party, the majority in this country have no desire to airbrush our heritage. It's part of who we are.

There is a reason why every university educated prime minister of the 20th century went to Oxford. It's part of our heritage. We, unlike you, have no desire to airbrush this heritage.

We like our country and are ready to vote out newlabour to get it back.

you don't like our country and see unfairness everywhere you look. Kindly return the country to its rightful owners by way of that general election that never was.

Have your say on the BBC Politics webpage makes good reading.

I particularly like

"Gordon Brown makes George Bush look like Mr Wonderful!!!!"

Sandra, Wakefield

Wakefield, thats up north, aint it?

@ 72. You cannot compare Major to Brown. Yes Major was (like Brown) a terrible leader. He was dull and uninspiring and was buffeted from pillar to post by internal dissent.

However at least he had the courage to call an election and he won a democratic mandate to rule and even won more votes in 1992 that Margaret Thatcher ever got.

In addition to this he managed to turn the economy into a resounding success before he left office.

As Brown used to keep banging on about the record number of continuous quarters of economic growth, it should be noted that he used "quarters" so people would not as easily realise that these quarters started 5 years BEFORE Major left office.

Blair's decision to keep spending to Conservative levels for the first 2 years of a labour administration in 1997 meant that the first seven years of continuous growth were down to John Major's Government, who ran the economy to create strong exports. Brown gave the BoE independence which allowed the bank to run more of the economy. The bank then did what banks always do; Encourage a large growth in credit. That bought Brown many more quarters of economic growth, but it was utterly unsustainable growth based on nothing but credit.

Now, we have the utter failure of Brown, only to willing to take credit for the economy that he inherited, but blaming every one else for the mess that he was ONE of the architects of.

Major was bad, but Brown is far far worse.

So speech over.

GB throws in a couple of bribes one of which had already been announced.
Claims that he fixed the roof when the sun shone. I'll put a call into Rogue traders right away he needs his builders back if he thinks that is fixed.
He claims to be fair but has taxed the middle classes until they cant afford the cancer presriptions but dont worry he's giving them back.
Ta but you werent specific on which drugs Gordy, I bet the ones that really work will be deemed too expensive for use in England only the Scotch will get the good ones free. and maybe the welsh if they give you a few seats after the sweatys have gone independant.

It took a whole hour to spout more claptrap, oh well at least if he stays until 2010 we know the Labour party will be gone for the longest time in their history if not forever.

My wife and I were talking about Gordons speech and you must note that she was a social worker during her long career. What she noticed was that Gordon loves referring to the caring professions and carers. The problem is that he is Prime Minister, by the very nature of his position he actually should not care, because if he really did then some of his decisions would never be implemented, they make the situation worse rather than better.

As for why people do things he referred to various people including soldiers who do things 'because they want to make a difference'. What many people have to realise is that if you ask most soldiers why they want to be soldiers it is, 'to kill people', unpalatable but true. So, yes they make a difference in Iraq and Afghanistan, they kill people.


I was actually quite angry when he referred to the miraculous treatment, which he got from the NHS, which saved his sight. Just as the NHS saved my leg when I broke my femur at an early age and resulted in my legs actually being stronger.

Why was I angry, because we know that his own daughter died, the NHS could not save her. What we all have to get used to is the fact that sometimes people just die. That's what happens and it is not the case that before the NHS people did not have their sight saved. Also the doctors, the professionals would have been trained before the NHS came into being.

I want clarification as to what he means by the 'energy dictatorship of oil' and what will he do about it. Did the conference seriously applaud when he referred to 'clean coal' and 'new nuclear power stations'.

This 'great speech' will unravel so quickly.