Friday 11 November 2011

NN discussing as usual everyone else demockcrazy, but ours.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/europe-mainmenu-35/9726-100000-britons-sign-anti-immigration-petition-in-one-week

"DEMOCKCRAZY" - NUFF SED LIZZY

JJ says it can't be done, Westminster says: “Who cares, it's 'THE GAME' that matters.”
BBC says: “Who can we get to fight - to no useful end - and shall we use intrusive music or background noise?”

Meanwhile, no one is imagining imaginary money any more - so there isn't enough to go round.

Beats me.

NEVER MIND THE POPPYCOCK - TAKE A LOOK AT WHO, TODAY, SEEKS WAR AND WHY?

I have shown the perverted path that MPs tread, to become UK Prime Ministers - with not a scrap of constructive leadership skill, but more than a healthy amount of Jingoism.

Have we not seen our PMs go to war, and then CROW! The pathetic pretence that our current mercenary military cohort, is composed of potential heroes, motivated by love of Queen and Country, is a typical Westminster-Creature ploy. The reading of names of the dead, at PMQs, is disgraceful, and the Cameron Cry of "BEST OF THE BEST" demeans millions of unsung heroes-of-humanity, who work quietly among us - killing no one - not even Johnnie Foreigner (whom we know to be expendable).

This is EDGY STUFF Newsynighty. Let's see it debated. Here's a start: Mercenary soldiers are expensively TRAINED TO AVOID DEATH. Why then are those that get killed, lauded above those who return unscathed?

This ethos is PRIMITIVE not CIVILISED. It is the sort of stuff you expect from Middle Eastern rogue states, with despotic leaders. Now there's a thought.

Nuff sed

'And we look at the history of Rembrance poppy wearing and whether the poppy is a political symbol or not'

And here was me thinking it was a nice enough way to honour my Dad's memory (and those who went before, served with and came after him) and pop some cash at good causes in support of those bearing the consequences of serving our country. As it has been without issue since I was a nipper, until now.

But having watched Kay Burley on SKY try to stir things up on this topic, I'd say the poppy is simply today's symbol of a a 24/7 news maw that demands to be fed, staffed by overpaid pretty folk who do not speak for me, yet from the evidence of the blog system contraction (Robinson's last several broadcast only) feel they have a god-given right to speak at me.

Lord knows who will be invited in tonight to 'look at' it all.

Brian Limond seems ratings gold as Mr. Marbles is slumming. And is Scots taboot. Sorted.

ps; Mr. Limond is this charmer...

https://thedrum.co.uk/news/2011/11/09/calls-sack-bbc-scotland-comedian-limmy-over-twitter-message-about-prince-william-and

https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/louisemensch/100116958/why-is-the-bbc-using-licence-fee-money-to-pay-a-man-who-wishes-margaret-thatcher-dead/

Aunty's market rates have said it's OK, as he's not on staff, simply paid by them to use the national airwaves. And anything on his twitter page is nothing to do with the BBC:

Hiya, I'm Brian Limond, maker of Limmy.com, and the writer/director/star of BBC Scotland's Limmy's Show!

Uh-huh.

Now if only Murdoch Junior and NI had hit on that one.

Get a tape and measure out 80 centimetres (about he length of a man's
leg) and then look at 12 centimetres (about the width of a man's hand).
They are the dimensions of a one ton 99% pure gold coin recently created in Australia. Now imagine about 2702 of those coins. That is apparently what Italy's gold reserves are, and they have the 4th largest in the world. So imagine about 2702 of those coins. Gold is not what money is about anymore. The people who buy gold are not institutional investors.

It is just a commodity like wheat or gravel, so companies buy it for manufacturing.

2702 coins - not much is it? Not worth getting all excited about. Money comes in many Ms, most of it not coins or paper. Most of it is borrowing and the multiples based on interest.

"The coin is 80 centimetres wide and 12 centimetres deep and took 18 months to create. On one side of the massive coin is a red kangaroo while the other side features a picture of the Queen"

https://www.inquisitr.com/154475/australian-mint-creates-one-ton-coin/

Be wary when you listen to people like Max Keiser. if a lot of viewers buy a little gold and silver, the price goes up and those who sell can make quick money on the bull market out of the hype. There is not enough gold in the world to base a money supply on. Not without gold going to a ridiculous price so a lot of what he and his partner come out with is gibberish..



ecolizzy wrote: "NN discussing as usual everyone else demockcrazy, but ours."

True. But they get to go on trips and stay in hotels etc that way. You just wait till you hear the emotive storyline. All emotion and speculation I bet. No evidence, so and so told us this and that etc.
They could all be ex cons.

They know that the politicians here can't do anything about what's going on, except name and shame (like yesterday in the Select Committee).
After the naming and shaming, cries of "omerta" and "mafia" - what will the response be? "Sorry", "I feel humbled" etc, followed by more of the aforementioned usually.

That's Libertarian democracy = non Governance. Most people voted for it.
Not too smart, but as 80% of the workforce work in the Public Sector hey haven't a clue how they are cutting off their own feet..

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"Human Rights Watch has called on the Arab League to suspend Syria for what it calls crimes against humanity by security forces in Homs.

Tonight we have a fresh report on the situation in the beleagured city from Sue Lloyd-Roberts who has secured new footage of what is happening there."

This stuff has been appalling quality in the past. Imagine an area in London where teams of people were wandering around with automatic weapons, firing into the air etc. Then imagine CO19 (Firearms Command) turning up and first demanding that they put down their weapons or they'd be shot. When they didn't they were shot, but some activists observing then told foreign reporters that the police had just turned up and started shooting people. Would Human Rights Watch be crying crimes against humanity etc then? Syria has a Baath Party. That doesn't mean they like keeping clean.

correction above -

"Not too smart, but as 80% of the workforce work in the PRIVATE Sector hey haven't a clue how they are cutting off their own feet.."

Sorry about that.

#8 Mr Dog

Looks like the threat to use rubber bullets did the trick as far a stopping any violence at the student protests the other day ?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid_9634000/9634597.stm

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1YHVHXr1bY

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Does it fit? Consider all the frenzied talk of "bond market vigilantes", EFSF SPIV bailout + leverage and most desperate of all, the incitement of illegal ECB printing of money - is it Washington engineering strategically placed financial NGOs to effect an EU fiscal unity by stealth given that the 2005 Constitution failed to do achieve this democratically? This all began after Lisbon 2007 and remember what happened when any state tried to stand up to that democratically - they got told to vote again..What sort of politics is that if not plutocracy and/or corporativism/fascism? One thing it's certainly not is socialism, as states are being eroded via austerity measures. The alternative is that Europe is being shaken up so it can settle down with a uniform system of governance, but is that possible given is diverse and unequal genetics/demography? What if, as the evidence suggests, it CAN'T be evened out by education and/or market-forces?

Seen this story in the Telegraph about the idea of first time buyers being allowed to cash in some of their pension pot to put towards a deposit? Madness!
Read the comments and recommendations though and even in the Telegraph with most of their readers, you would assume, having done well out of property it is obvious where public opinion is on the property bubble.
We have a housing crisis in this country, the property bubble is being kept afloat by increasingly desperate means. Its kicking the house price bubble 'can' down the road in the same way other countries are doing with their debt.
In the meantime while they might be able to 'stabilise' prices the housing market is in stasis, frozen, with those able to move around in the position of most of my friends living in houses worth, on paper, £250,000 but paying £80,000 mortgages!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/8882173/Let-pensions-fund-homes-for-first-time-buyers-says-CBI.html

It won't be cuts to the NHS or libraries closing that unite people in this country against what is being done to them in the way it has in America with the occupy movement. Here it will be housing that pulls everyone together, the basic human need for a place to call home.
The increasing millions with nowhere to live will start to protest about it at some point, and those who already have a home will have sympathy and support them.

To all those that we remember today, of any nation, ......

I know you can’t hear but ....

Thank you!






The only incursion into the silence anticipated hereabouts at the eleventh hour this morning was that of children playing in the grounds of the local fee paying Prep School.

It was surprising to hear.

Children need to be free occasionally of the pressures some put upon them. Perhaps the school ‘team’ were in urgent discussion with Education Inspectors? (Please note the lack of use the correct contemporary attribute as one is never entirely sure as to whether one is allowed to use the ‘Off’ word!) Perhaps the kettle in the staff room had gone awry taking all staff to seek out the missing , essential, life saver? Perhaps the school still operates on the Julian calender? Or perhaps the school stroke governors just forgot?

Bodes well for the future!



Some years ago during a minute’s silence for the victims of the 7/7 attack I witnessed an entire, busy, market stand silent ..... bar one person.

It turned out she didn’t speak any english!

So her husband explained!




185

@11 It certainly seems that the incendiaries are being tasked with putting out the fire:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Papademos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Draghi

Meanwhile, a compliant media, including the BBC, continues to promote "austerity" (for the poor) and restructuring. However, nowhere does the "austerity" seem to involve making tax evaders pay their share. On the other hand, "restructuring" includes selling off state assets. "I can't help speculating" (© Bros ) that those in Greece, Italy and even the UK who have not paid (or been let off paying) their taxes, will be using the money saved to buy state assets at a knock-down price.

Who says crime doesn't pay?

Sasha #17

I also saw it somewhere that some Greek stock market parasites are already here in the London market trading Greek state assets perhaps even before they are theoretically privatised. It would appear that its all the usual insiders are getting deals from their buddies at knock down prices, perhaps its only a matter of time before they start the asset stripping on the UK, where I suspect that The Highways Agency could be a prime target.

#13 Edited....

Why we should never go to war

Did anyone watch the Culture Show tonight, all about art as therapy for PTSD?

Those poor men, here's what I think about all the current conflicts, the rest of us carry on our cosy lives, never thinking about johnny soldier/salior/airmen, and when they come home with mangled limbs and minds, we say oh what are you going on, about get over it! And of course no support from goverment.

Not to mention all the rubbish we've spread around and left behind, more mangled limbs and minds, war is not the answer

HOW TO AVOID WAR (#19)

Some years ago, a river polluted by factory discharge was dramatically cleansed by passing a regulation that the discharge pipe must be UPSTREAM OF INTAKE.

By the same token: if International Law decreed that any leader convinced a war should be fought, must take the highest risk in that war, many wars would never kick off. Maggie, Tony and Dave - take note.

Jingo Dave could learn a lot by 'coming back a hero'.

Make it so.

The white poppy wearing guest says "we sent them of to die in vain"...really! well it was just as well we did have brave men sent off in the 2nd world war otherwise the white poppy wearing fellas grandparents may have been turned into lampshades and he wouldn't have been sat in that NN studion tonight...and you'd be reading this in German.

Still, I have no idea why we are In Iraq/Iran...other than for the usual business of keeping the military busy and having our hands on other peoples resources.

The upward sales of poppy are due - in part - to a growth in patriotism/nationalism and a hatefilled alien culture threatening to burn poppies again. Patriotism and nationalism: Two dirty words that the BBC can't utter ...unless its in the negative.

MASS OUTPOURING SYNDROME (#21)

MOS might also be involved Kev. We, and perhaps the world, succumbing to a febrile state.

Maybe Piers Corbyn is looking into causes?

Me @21

"Iraq/Iran". Little mistake there, should've been Iraq and Afganistan...but give it a month or 3 and we'll be pointing our missles at Iran too. Just waiting on Israel to kick that one off. As for the global economy going pear shaped...er yeah..that was always on the cards.

There's gonna be a big population drop in less than 18 months...can't you see it?!

I'm cursed with vision.

ANYONE HEARD HOW THE ERROR BAND IS DOING? (#23)

"Big population drop." Have you got an error band for "big" Kev? I am still waiting for NewsyNighty to query '0.5%' AS AN EXACT FIGURE! It is about as exact has Kirsty's rendering of 'editor', sans consonants.

All together now: "Hitler has only got . . .

I'll get me war medals (for being bombed and evacuated).

@18

https://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/13/greek-debt-crisis-capital-outflow

But the Swiss will graciously and anonymously give some of it back, whilst continuing to help criminals break the law:

"one Greek ... stashed "146 million euros in a Swiss bank account when at the same time he owes some 636 million euros in back tax."

https://www.digitaljournal.com/article/314002

Krugman as always is on the ball, in this article he quotes first from the FT:

".....If ever modern Europe needed brave, charismatic leaders to carry their nation through turbulent times, it would seem to be now. Instead, it is as if the crew of the Starship Enterprise had concluded that Captain Jean-Luc Picard is no longer the man for the job and that it is time to send for the Borg. Efficient, calculating machines driving through unpopular measures across the eurozone with the battle cry “resistance is futile” are apparently the order of the day. Faced with a deep crisis, once-proud European nations are essentially preparing to hand over power to Ernst & Young."

then concludes: "It’s a dubious idea to supplant democratic governance with allegedly non-political management even in the best of times. But to assign authority to unelected men whose actual record suggests that they govern based on prejudices rather than analysis is even worse."

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/crat-me-no-techno-continued

POWER TENDS TO CORRUPT - CHARISMA TENDS TO CORRUPT ABSOLUTELY (#25)

Will that lesson never be learned?

'23. At 23:27 11th Nov 2011, kevseywevsey

As Eric once said: 'there's a lot of it about'.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/8885524/Argentina-angry-at-Duke-of-Cambridges-duty-in-Falklands.html

To be fair, at the time I wasn't that thrilled with the results of Gen. Galtieri's tour of duty deployment much either.

I wonder if Ms. Kirchner shares notes on waffly accusations with any other dashing 'leaders'?

I'll sit on my hands on that one.

I'M FUZZY ABOUT THE WHOLE LAND-RIGHTS THING (#27)

The original Aboriginals (it is said) did not 'own' land. The Jews own their god-given bit, in perpetuity. By virtue of ship-building prowess and better cannons, our Queen still reckons some hold over bits of far flung land. But we don't stick our flag in anything except the Moon. Are we being a bit medieval? O LOT MEDIEVAL??

Can you get slaves on Amazon?

In addition to post 15 I'd like to point out a quote from the chancellor at the bottom of the story about the eurozone crisis...

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15691546

Where he says "This autumn our priority is to get the housing market going and to get infrastructure underway."

For 'get the housing market going' read 'use taxpayers money to keep the housing bubble inflated'.
He won't call it taxpayers money though, they never do when they're trying to sneak something through without too much attention, it will be called 'government money'. And the worst thing is this is how it will be reported as well.
The truth is that the more taxpayers money is sucked into underwriting mortgage lending by funding part buy/part rent mortgages and in the case of some councils paying first time buyers entire deposits, the wider the gap between house prices and those taxpayers on low wages who still won't be able to live anywhere will become.

A journalists job is to cut through all the spin and report the truth. The truth is that the housing market is reliant on the taxpayer now and probably always will be. Once that is established the debate can then move on to those taxpayers left homeless by the rising prices they are paying for. However uncomfortable that might be for the politicians.

UNREALITY TV: If anyone critically watches any of the entertainment interviews broadcast by the media, from Newsnight, Strictly Come Dancing all the way down to the likes of Big Brother, one might notice interviewers frequently asking interviewees what they think, what they believe and even how they *feel* at its worst. They may not always ask them what they think etc, but it is pitched that way if you listen carefully. Nobody is held accountable, all is excused as mere opinion.

When the interviewees respond that THEY don't think or believe this or that, does it ever mean that this or that is NOT the case, even when they are giving an account of their own behaviours?

Interviewees certainly often aren't fully aware of their own behaviours/actions and their consequences (just think about the training sessions in the dancing programme for a start, that's why they are, in practice, being trained after all), so it does not mean that their actions are NOT being emitted with the stated consequences. We are even shown recorded evidence that it was emitted and had exactly those consequences sometimes, which makes the subjects a little sheepish at times. So why is so much store put by what people think and believe by the media? Is it not prima facie evidence of their self-centredness and poor/sloppy reporting?

Now apply this to asking if some constant had a "game-plan" or not in a game show which is then denied in favour of their saying that they were "just being themselves", for who else could they have been (many are in fact actors or want to be performers)? The slight-of-"mind" is egregious, and it is a very convenient blindness (scotoma) to the consequences of their own action in order to solicit narcissistic supply from a potentially critical audience who might see through their act is it not? Is this not precisely why trainers and others view video footage of behaviour and doe sit not lead to hissy fits and strops?

We saw some of this issue raised in a recent Select Committee this week (covered by Newsnight, the "Omerta", and Family issue), but it's there all the time without most of it ever being remarked upon precisely because it's endemic in our self-centred Libertarian system which puts so much store by mens rea and the psychological or intentional over actus reus i.e behaviour. The clue to something being awry on Newsnight is when interviewers raise their pitch and squawk rather than talk. The media too often now appeals to a domain which simply does not exist (the intensional) which is not just cheap, vacuous, unaccountable fantasy i.e just idle entertainment masquerading as reality TV, it is actually pop psychology at the expense of reality at a time when what we really do need is a harsh look at political and economic behaviour and what is wrong with it. Focusing on psychology will get us nowhere. It is behaviour which matters. Only behaviour is accountable. Only behaviour and evidence matters (as many on the Newsnight Team know, and the production team and interviewers did a good job the other night on the hacking/NI issue)

@26 Perhaps it's not so much the charisma that corrupts, as the desire to be loved as well as wield power? That's why every leader should emulate Xerxes and have a servant behind him to whisper "remember O Great King, thou art mortal".

Certainly, once leaders become infatuated with their own image, they're doomed. Atlee, probably the best of the last 100 years, didn't read newspapers so as not to be distracted. He was widely praised, even by Margaret Thatcher who said he was "all substance and no show"

Also, interestingly, when he died in 1967, "his estate was sworn for probate purposes at a value of £7,295, a relatively modest sum for so prominent a figure."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Attlee

brossen99 wrote:"I also saw it somewhere that some Greek stock market parasites are already here in the London market trading Greek state assets perhaps even before they are theoretically privatised."

Have we have many Iraqi and Greek successful property developers in the UK during the boom years?


muggwhump wrote: "He won't call it taxpayers money though, they never do when they're trying to sneak something through without too much attention, it will be called 'government money'. And the worst thing is this is how it will be reported as well."

But that is what Government IS.

A Government has three basic sources of revenue to manage Public Services (the Private Sector is free and doesn't come into this). These are 1) taxes (not just Income Tax, but Corporation Tax, fuel duties etc etc), 2) cutting costs in expenditure in the Public Sector to release money for other expenditure in the Public Sector (sometimes selling off hard assets like land and buildings etc), and 3) borrowing on the money markets at interest (hence Sovereign debt - bond interest rates going way above the base rate in Greece and Italy. Bear in mind that the annual revenue from ALL taxes including National Insurance is under £500 billion and you see the problem, I hope.

As in Greece, people want the services but don't want to pay for it.
Self centred or what? Like children they can't see or think beyond their own immediate short-term interests. What is this is genetic? What if no education i.e telling them, will help? Think Sub Sahara Africa. Watch South Africa become even more "communist" like Zimbabwe.

DOESN'T 'DESIRE' TO BE LOVED ALWAYS INDICATE NEED? (#31)

Hi Sasha. I have long suspected that the needy (damaged) seek, admiration (love) status (leadership) power etc in a forlorn attempt to assuage/repair their battered psyches. It has long been known that only removal of the NEED (becoming content to BE) releases the needy. A glance at St Tony, illustrates that 'gaining the whole world' does nothing for the screaming soul.

muggwhump #29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ9syBnOJM0&list=PL06EA19707581B28F&index=6&feature=plpp_video

'28. At 09:46 12th Nov 2011, barriesingleton wrote:
I'M FUZZY ABOUT THE WHOLE LAND-RIGHTS THING (#27)

As recounted before, whilst at Uni (during one kick-off referred to), I penned a piece entitled 'My great-great-great...etc grandad was a Roman comfort boy', opining that I might be due compo for what may have happened under someone else's ancient relative's watch. At the very least I was offended, or angry, or maybe both. Plus, as a bonus, I was politically correct.

Those that saw the irony were amused. Those with selective vested interests in their dogma-du-jour were not.

Shame there was not the industry in support there is now.

It's why I do look forward to the reaction of those in support of various 'rights' should anyone decide to camp in their garden, or lob only the odd high explosive warhead into it. Some have to deal with them every day.

Que sera, sera. Often, to a unique level.

I know the left can't show any emotional response to stories like this - lefty Liberalism is a mental illness - but for me and the majority, it leaves our blood boiling.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060538/Mohamed-Bouzalim-claimed-400-000-benefits--kicked-human-rights.html

32 brown-dog. I know that government/taxpayers money is the same thing, the point I was making is that the politicians will call it government money when they don't want the public to connect what is being spent with what is coming out of their pockets ie underwriting overpriced housing for the banks.
They'll call it taxpayers money when its something they want to get rid of or undermine ie libraries or support for the elderly.
Osborne won't stand up and say he will be using taxpayers money to 'get the housing market going' because when people hear the words taxpayers money their ears prick up and they think 'what is MY money being wasted on now?', because for millions of them the answer will be 'using your money to price you onto the streets'. No, instead he'll call it government money and it will go over most peoples heads.
The question is will any journalists pick him up on it? They haven't as of yet.

barriesingleton wrote: "I have long suspected that the needy (damaged) seek, admiration (love) status (leadership) power etc in a forlorn attempt to assuage/repair their battered psyches. It has long been known that only removal of the NEED (becoming content to BE) releases the needy. A glance at St Tony, illustrates that 'gaining the whole world' does nothing for the screaming soul."

It is at the core of most of clinical work as well as normal development so it is unsurprising that this has struck you perhaps. It is like saying that one thinks that force has something to do with physics, bonds something to do with chemistry, cells and genes biology etc..

As with all behaviours it's a matter of degree (strength or
rate/frequency) as narcissism is a HEALTHY part of all normal behaviour
- cf., grooming. This comes down to fine (PROFESSIONAL) discrimination.
It is not an opportunity to go about name calling.

Like gathering, narcissism only becomes a problem, i.e pathological, when it has adverse consequences for the agent and/or others (think pathological hoarding). That's why all of the Identity/Personality Disorders have to be diagnosed with respect to that aspect first, i.e before it is further broken down into a class of PD. Some people with these genetic behaviours just find non harmful opportunities for expression. The problem we have today is how prevalent these behaviours have become and how many avenues of expression there now are which are having ADVERSE consequences.

It comes down to population management in the interest of all.

kevseywevsey wrote: "I know the left can't show any emotional response to stories like this - lefty Liberalism is a mental illness - but for me and the majority, it leaves our blood boiling."

Liberalism is right wing. It is anarchistic. Libertarian. See the Liberal Party and Liberal-Democrats. The LEFT regulates. It does not tolerate liberalism as it regards it as subversive of the state. You have to think what Liberals want form FROM. It is freedom from regulation! It is the state which regulates. The state is the Public Sector.

There are lot of subversive people who have foxed lots of people in the West into believing that Liberalism is left-wing when it is in practice a right-wing freedom-from-the-state movement.

Please try to grasp this, or you'll just help those peddling this subterfuge/deception make matters even worse for most whilst they make it better for them as they profit by deregulation and obstruction of re-regulation..


muggwhump wrote some sound points.

Sadly, there comes a stage in population genetics where the critical mass of people are so self-centred that they effectively end up preying upon and devouring each other. I fear we have reached that stage here.

I'd like to see some evidence that this is an inaccurate appraisal. If middle aged people are having to angrily fend off phone calls from predatory utility companies which at one time were Public Sector services managed by Civil Servants, overseen by elected politicians just think what elderly people are having to cope with who still think it was like the old days when they funded those utilities and trusted them.

We don't disagree. People should read Lenin's "What Can Be Done". It was an attack on anarchism and an explication of Democratic Centralism. Democracy.

THOSE WHOM THE GODS WISH TO DUPE THEY FIRST MAKE 'MAD'

Press release: "They are going to put the new road through the old people's home, the playing field, the rare newt pond, and the church." OUTCRY!

Correction: "The illegal immigrant janitor, composed the erroneous document. It is unreservedly withdrawn. TRIUMPH!

Press release: "The new road will now go where we always wanted to put - through some of the most beautiful countryside in England.

Did you hear the one about the junior officer who QUITE IN ERROR composed, and lost control of, news that injured squaddies are to be fired? So what's the real plan?

Nuff sed

as a child my mother told me that two of her brothers would not be coming back, two of them were killed on the Lancastria off St Nazire, machined gunned in the water as they tried to swim for it, the other one was killed at Dunkerque. I do not buy poppies as it reminds me of the whole stupid episode where people are killed in their millions and my generation is fortunate enough never to have a war......only we have! We never learn the lessons as Blair and Bush lied about WMD and tried to convince us that war was 45 minutes away. Have your poppies, do your ceremonies but don't tell me that lessons have been learnt...it is not in our nature, we love it...

Brown dog @39
I take your point about Liberalism. I'm just playing with the popular view of Liberalism/lefty. Your correct to split hairs on that point though. I stand humbled in your mastery and knowledge of such things :) I thank you.

WELL SAID STEVIE (#41)

Did you read my #3? My dad survived WW1 - he had the same view as Harry Patch. He never acknowledged Armistice Day.

As I posted yesterday, no leader who is not prepared to do their share of fighting, should be allowed to promote war.

platos republic shows why and how democracy leads to tyranny as a desperate population seek a 'strong man' to 'sort the mess out' caused by the inevitable consequences of democracy that institutionalizes incompetence.

poppy fascism has become as irrational the reaction to diana's death.

if we really valued troops we wouldn't send then on bs wars that have no end.

the poppy is being used to perpetual such wars by pretending they are right and thus those fighting are heroes. They may be but it is now political. The political/media class have debased it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkDMy-6x69g&feature=feedlik

jauntycyclist wrote: "platos republic shows why and how democracy leads to tyranny as a desperate population seek a 'strong man' to 'sort the mess out' caused by the inevitable consequences of democracy that institutionalizes incompetence."

LIBERAL- Democracy.

Just remember, China reckons it runs a more sophisticated democracy. It doesn't run a Liberal-Democracy for precisely the reason you say - namely Liberal-Democracy is inherently anarchistic and predatory. It always ends in tears..This is because people are not all born as equals (don't grow to the same height, have the same ability etc) so some need to be protected from others. Caveat Emptor is venal.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

^And yet again my human rights abused.

I won't comment it's not allowed

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8886486/Labour-dragged-into-border-fiasco-over-dropped-passport-checks.html

ecolizzy wrote: "I won't comment it's not allowed"

The Human Rights of which you speak are Libertarian Human Rights, e.g.
the right to run a business and to not live in a socialist state.

That's quite subtle - if we tried to build the sort of state which you fondly remember (in the 1950s for example) we'd probably find ourselves subject to regime-change. The USA is clearly still not happy about relaxing the Jackson-Vanik amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson%E2%80%93Vanik_amendment

Who is most likely to have been making things difficult for left-leading parties in Britain and Europe since 1945? It shouldn't take much to work that out or why it isn't easy to maintain one's borders when others see one doing so as contrary to THEIR Libertarian objectives.

Harold Wilson etc must have had a very hard time.

'50. At 23:13 12th Nov 2011, ecolizzy wrote:
I won't comment it's not allowed'

Often, to an extreme degree.

Main editors:

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15690895 - open, for now
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15676176 - gone broadcast only
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/15676704 - closed
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15622807 - closed (at 19!)
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/correspondents/rorycellanjones - twittered
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/correspondents/richardblack/ - twittered
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15622890 - closed (at 38)
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15697177 - open (gleaning 9)

At least here is 'open', but as you have discovered, there are 'parameters'.

Not sure this is quite what one might be reassured by from an entity that seems to feel it speaks for, when it's more speaks at, with listening rather restricted.

JunkkMale wrote: "Often, to an extreme degree."

Without wishing to condone heavy-handed and sometimes self-destructive censorship, there ARE people whose behaviour (often unwittingly) will shut down rational exchange when criticism threatens their status quo.
What better way to limit legitimate airing of points than by submitting libellous or otherwise potentially litigable comments which make the job of moderators too much of a burden to be economically justifiable? Think of people getting angry and emotional, verbally threatening etc when they don't get their own way

Rational explanations and action in general CAN be provided with respect to many of the problems which we're now seeing emerging across the Libertarian democracies, and this is legitimate. Target the BEHAVIOURS which are the problem, not the people. Focus on how these behaviours might be better MANAGED (they may not be changeable per se if genetic).

There's a subtle point there, but it's a powerful, and useful one.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Another reason why we should leave the EU once and for all....
https://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/283260/EU-rules-to-slash-house-prices

So much for the Disability Discrimination Act...
https://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/283385/So-Mr-Cameron-why-are-you-sacking-disabled-workers-

Factotem wrote: ""Voting and protesting in Britain will not change any of this.If you really care about the memory of the fallen military personnel we honour today it`s time you woke up to the truth and put aside fantasy party politics for good!"

Probably true, but what would be helpful would be if more people took an active interest in, and referenced, the laws and treaties which constrain the behaviour of politicians and Public Sector workers, as these people can't legitimately do whatever they like without legal changes having been made to the controlling contingencies which are the limits of the positions they occupy. They certainly can't do what many of the electorate they represent say they'd like them to do, as their jobs just don't allow that for the above reasons. Hence all the talk that one hears about "managing public expectations" (which means that as most of what people think and believe is ill-informed legally, it literally doesn't matter given that those demands are illegitimate given that they fall outside of the above controlling legal contingencies. If politicians pr Public Sector workers break domestic or international laws or treaties they're punished (if caught) by domestic and/or foreign opponents. - so the performers, the politicians, have to handle their electorates with kid gloves (expectation management) much of the time.

That's a lot of their function aside from reform through law making which is a long, tedious tortuous process like writing a computer program in fact . One can't get this point across to most people alas, as many are not bright enough. Many will ask WHY it is so but never bother to listen to the answer, just complaining that regardless of how it IS, it SHOULD be otherwise....The fact is, it ISN'T.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2060750/Immigration-This-Government-happy-UK-No-Border-Agency.html

'53. At 10:25 13th Nov 2011, brown-dog -

Without wishing to condone heavy-handed and sometimes self-destructive censorship

One is sure that heavy handed or self-destructive anything goes in the 'not good' column, so here's hoping your wish comes true.

What better way to limit legitimate airing of points than by submitting libellous or otherwise potentially litigable comments which make the job of moderators too much of a burden to be economically justifiable?

This makes me hark back to school days, when the best teachers controlled the class with rules, fairness, firmness, consistency and respect.

The rotten ones screamed, or panicked, and often adopted the risible disciplinary method of putting the whole class in detention for the actions of a few, because they were weak, and could. It always backfired.

These blogs have rules, mostly good ones. Libel or litigation liable ones being valid reasons to have them. I would challenge any to agree that these are what see most referrals imposed.

As one springs to mind, let me skip to another blog to see how it's faring:

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15639767

Now, there's a thing...

'22. Spanglerboy
10TH NOVEMBER 2011 - 13:02
This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

'Referred', for 'further consideration'. And now, after two days of considering, the thread is closed, so no matter what, it's gone. That... is censorship.

If the best excuse for this is economic viability, then may I humbly suggest that is not a very good one.

If you can't do something properly, either don't start, correct it or stop if you can't cope. Making excuses is silly. Daft claims on trust and genetic impartiality simply delusional. Blogs have been around for a while. The lines that need to be walked to operate interactivity are well known.

Especially with 'The Editors' https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/ alive with all the new bells and whistles of social media extras that are going to be brought on board to show how much they are listening and interacting.

This is dishonest. If it is all going to be 'selected' going in and filtered and vetted before going out, all we are getting is ever more ways to broadcast... only.

That's fine if I have a choice, and can opt out if the output is questionable. I don't.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article-2060168/Brussels-blew-3-7bn-taxpayers-cash-energy-agriculture-transport.html

It would appear that the eco-fascists have bombarded " Points of View " with complaints about last Monday's Panorama outlining the " green " energy policy scam, and in particular focussing on wind farms and the proposed carbon floor price as a carrot for companies to build nuclear power stations.

Just over nine minutes in, woman apparently insisting that low income people should freeze and starve to death to save the planet.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017929w/Points_of_View_2011_Episode_17/

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

BLOOD AND BONE FERTILIZER (THE FISH WAS ABSENT)

Lest we forget: https://www.nationofchange.org/veterans-stand-against-glorifying-war-1321204683

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjmPPZpOWYg&feature=feedu

Factotem wrote: "I doubt that there is really a large difference in IQ between people Brown Dog"

That just tells me at least that you don't know what's the case. There are MARKED differences, they are genetic and they can't be changed.

Sadly this has nothing to do with education either - it's like the large differences in height. The most venal myth of all peddled over the last several decades has been that people are basically the same and that differences can be put down to education (environment), opportunity and "hard work". To see the basic fallacy one just needs to look at the abilities of many SEN pupils (now 20% of the school population including Statemented, School Action Plus and School Action - and this has grown dramatically over the decades) as well as the elderly as they cerebrally age/decline (and this is a group which is growing very quickly and large as a proportion of the population).

All that the Equality legislation did was reduce the powers of the much needed regulators who provided protection, and it did so venally under the subterfuge that all people are free to choose. In fact they are being fleeced in their naivety and dotage.

Generations have been hood-winked on this issue. They don't know the science - and so they now do a lot of harm whilst spouting humanitarian, Libertarian values. As a consequence, elsewhere in the world they're despised as evil and most of them don't even know why.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Factotem wrote:"Of course there are people at the extremes of IQ in both directions BD. I have seen wards full of unfortunates with very low IQ kept alive to appease well meaning folk like the religious types who consider it`s "God`s" business whether they live or die."

It has little to do with extremes, although the tails of the distribution are informative and important. Even the mean is slipping down as explained elsewhere (often), this means there are , over generations, substantial population losses in the upper tail (say a bit more than the top two Standard Deviations (SDs) and inflation of the lower two SDs, i.e about the top 20% and bottom 20%). The same is going on elsewhere in the distribution just less obviously, and nations even differ in the means, see OECD PISA (especially comparing te tails of the PIIGS wth Northern Europe and East Asia). This was pointed out decades ago by a lot of very concerned people.

"But would it be unfair of me to suggest that you are a professional person with a high personal investment in seeing people with your intellectual and academic background as superior beings?"

It would make no sense if all the data shows what's said is the case true, especially if the person reiterating it is anonymous! Personal gain is an unlikely explanation and disregarding or disputing the facts on such grounds is irrational.

If anyone wants to know why much that they see happening around them since 2007 especially has been happening, these data are worth looking into. Financial Services invest in long term demographic actuarial analysis as do Governments. Most of the public don't understand this.
They come up with too local (self-centred and personal) explanations).
There are demographic forces art work here and they are long term.

This is not a class war per se. If it was one would have to explain why the birth-rate is much further below replacement at the higher end of the ability distribution, and much higher at the lower end of ability (whilst there is some natural culling of variability in all biological populations in this way, the dire effects being referred to here are now too dire for that to suffice as an explanation - it was tried by two Non-Conformists, Haldane and Penrose in the 1940s) . Alas, this appears to be a political-economic *system* problem not a class war.

Lighten up on your attacks as you appear to be targeting the wrong enemy, in fact, in mistaking your class target you risk exacerbating the current problems by helping kill off (deterring parenthood) future generations of the very people who are needed to provide and manage effective Public Services for the growing numbers which are going to need these in the future..

For what goes wrong when what you are advocating happens see Africa and large parts of South Asia..

This process is insidious - and I am suggesting that it is Libertarianism itself - pursuit of "freedom". Give this some *careful* though. There's a VERY long research history into this (which led to genetics and demography as disciplines) and yet most of it has been very poorly understood and presented. For those causing most of the trouble, look at those who are by nature self-centred, and having with short-term, local interests. Those more concerned with looking good than with getting analyses and practices right for the long-haul. There's a brain-gender issue there, and I suggest it's genetic..

Factotem wrote: "And can I register a protest at the way genetic factors are used to excuse the socially insane idea that multiculturalism is a way of responding sensitively to differing genetic predisposing factors"

Surely you are just registering your own unfamiliarity with modern biology? There is biological diversity between groups of animals as well as within. That is basic to biology and the process of Natural Selection. It is not a matter of excusing anything, it's a matter of our slowly coming to terms with what diversity really means along with our prior ignorant explanations for individual differences. Our "mentalistic" prior explanations didn't help matters at all.

As to immigration, It's making up the numbers which we have not been producing - it's been going on since the 1940s. Has it been good for the nation state? Probably not. Nor will it be good for the longer term economy. But some don't appear to have appreciated, or cared about, that. Nor have they wanted to look into the root drivers. For some, there was money to be made and fun to be had in the short-term, and that was all they cared about. Perhaps?

Do you care enough to look into it, or do you just want to protest?
Looking into the drivers *might* help. I'm not sure it will, but unless more people do, there's little hope of much if anything changing for the better.

I suggest you Google "America's Perfect Storm ETS" and watch the February 2007 video. These people have effectively managed testing in the USA since the 1940s, so they know a thing or two about trends although they picked up on the dire consequences looming from elsewhere, I suggest.

When you hear all these "commentators" (usually working in Financial
Services) talking about what the "European Central Bank" SHOULD do, just remind yourself that THERE IS NO EUROPEAN NATION STATE.

A Central Bank is always a NATIONAL entity but there is no nation state of Europe. That is what they were trying to create in 2005 and failed to politically/democratically achieve.

Now "they" are trying to force it. Non Democratically, by fiscal bullying.

Beware. This is ILLEGAL. if they can do this, they can do ANYTHING. The law would cease to matter.

"Paxman's 1997 interview with the-then Home Secretary Michael Howard - during which he repeated the same question 12 times - became the programme's most notorious interview, and a piece of TV history.

Paxman later admitted during the 20th anniversary edition of Newsnight that he had simply been trying to string out the interview because the next item was delayed.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8072060.stm

How closely did the Newsnight Team look into what was actually happening at HMP Parkhurst and HMP Whitemoor in those years, how it came about, and what the outcome was?

Nearly twenty years later, and there's still almost no scrutiny of what "Agency Status" really amounted to, and how, prima facie, the most unlikely of all "enemies within" were promulgating the erosion of the nation state from, of all places, Whitehall/Westminster.

But that's real politics I guess, not edgy entertainment. What matters to some is audience interest and edgy entertainment (i.e viewing figures), not investigative journalism?

First it was the Public Sector....... then they came for the BBC (and tried moving them up North just as they did some of the Westminster Civil Servants).

Winnowing..

"Europe is in one of its toughest, perhaps the toughest hour since World War Two," Merkel told her conservative party in Leipzig, saying she feared Europe would fail if the euro failed and vowing to do anything to stop this from happening."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8889040/Europe-faces-toughest-hour-since-Second-World-War-says-German-Chancellor-Angela-Merkel.html

If Merkel *said that* (an intensional idiom of propositional attitude), she said it in German, and given that Europe is still just a psychological concept, a dream without any formal legal identity, how can it fail? Al t hat people will do is wake up surely?

Ask how a psychological concept can ever fail. "Europe" is a post WWII concept dreamed up by the USA, that's all. As It doesn't exist as a state, it CAN'T fail. It would just continue as it was. An agreement which doesn't work very well.

Every day we see the Financial Service sector "churning" stock in order to make money (through fear). As NGOs of Wall Street and Washington they are desperate to create a political and fiscal Europe so that no European state can regulate them.

SPIV by name, Heath-Robinson by nature?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8886380/Eurozone-bail-out-fund-has-to-resort-to-buying-its-own-debt.html

https://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=5135194

https://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/11/14/the-eurozone-heath-robinson-device/

And we look at the history of Remembrance poppy wearing and whether the poppy is a political symbol or not.
>

Yes - is a political symbol as of course we need to remember our war dead.

Unfortunately, I think the popppy may now have become a symbol of legitimising war - so as to ease the consciences of our politicians.

In other words - some will be encouraged and expected to fight & die for their country - some of the rest will be very sorry about this - but so long as a politician shows their grief in public & wearing a poppy - ALL is seen to be well for the politicians as they 'appreciate their service personnel's sacrifice(s)'.

The poppy should IMO be a symbol of remembrance & non-acceptance - somewhere along the line our politicians have failed.

A poppy eases but cannot purge a politician's (or another's) conscience(s) for them - nor can it remove the blood on their hands & the hands of others.

https://ij-poli-blog.blogspot.com/2011_10_01_archive.html

White poppies all around next year?

brown-dog @ 75

You say, and strictly speaking it is factually correct, that there is no European nation state {ala the USA}.

However, in the beating hearts of all europhiles, there is a fledgling European nation state and what's more, these are the people are caressing the levers of euro-power in Brussels, Strasbourg and Frankfurt.

That is the parallel 'reality' which runs alongside the 'official' version in Europe.

Probably twas always thus in every system of Government (remember the Zils?).

JohnConstable wrote: "You say, and strictly speaking it is factually correct, that there is no European nation state {ala the USA}.

However, in the beating hearts of all europhiles, there is a fledgling European nation state and what's more, these are the people are caressing the levers of euro-power in Brussels, Strasbourg and Frankfurt."

You want rhetoric and counterfactuals? Try this rough scenario (needs
work) in order to disengage your Europhile thinking:-

Imagine some "Afrophiles" living in China. First they set up South Africa and Zimbabwe as client states whilst encouraging the rest of the African nation states to engage in trade agreements which benefit China.

Next they arrange for people employed in Africa to have the same terms and conditions, again, in the economic interests of China. When some African states borrow too much money from Chinese banks (with branches in South Africa and Zimbabwe) China has its proxies threaten said states by downgrading their sovereign debt making it harder for them to run their Public Services because the interest on their loans goes up. The locals don't like this so rebel against their Government and China arranges a more compliant party/politician to take over. Note, there's still no African Union, but anyone acting as if there isn't is indirectly threatened or punished by China.

Now take another perspective, nuclear energy, Some of these African states voluntarily sign an agreement not to develop nuclear weapons just electricity etc. At some point it's discovered that they have lots of oil and have a Government which puts their own people before the interests of China. China doesn't like this much as it means this country might start selling more of their oil reserves at a price not in the interests of China so China sends in some inspectors from Russia who report back to China that maybe Liberia will be able to build a bomb one day. China says in the interest of regional security it might ask Brazil to bomb Liberia's fledgling nuclear reactors.

Maybe this is how (some) Greeks etc think?

brown-dog @ 81

Over time, according to circumstances, the 'great game' changes.

What you describe regarding China's behaviour in Africa in your first perspective, as far as this blogger can determine, is not rhetoric, but is actually happening. That is, the Chinese are using their colossal reserves of US dollars, whilst the US dollar still has some value, to buy up Africa and other places around the world where China wants resources. And what China owns, China will control as you point out.

Your second 'nuclear' perspective stretches things a bit, but I thought that I saw Iran (Liberia), Israel (Brazil), Russia (UN inspectors), the US (China) as alternative actors in this fantasy, which I hope, for all ours sakes, does not become a reality, with its eerie echoes of Barry Hines Threads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads%29.

Maybe some Greeks think about these things but I'd hazard a guess that right now most Greeks just desire a more predictable future, which is expressed in polls which indicate that most of them do not want to leave the Eurozone.

factotum.......it was fourteen times actually...gets worse doesn't it?