Friday 2 September 2011

Look chaps,can we bring this absurd fantasy of British independent nationhood to an end please?

We went bust during the First world War and even that war was financed by the sharks on Wall street who have been running Britain ever since then!

The CIA decides what British security services (and our governments) do when it comes to "rendering" people to one of their many interrogation centres.

Can we please get real and encourage the churches and Amnesty International and the Guardian/BBC to address their complaints to our de facto rulers in the USA?

Sorry to be so blunt, but it`s a reality that has to be faced!

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DROP THE OTHER SHOE BBBBC (#1)

Suicide? Cryogenic storage until . . . ? Love Big Brother?

I think you might be confusing 'BLUNT' with 'OBTUSE'.

WHEN STEPHEN SMITH REPORTS FOR NEWSYNIGHTY . . .

can the Silly Season be far behind?

Nuff sed.

@3

You think as you please Barrie,but I am not being cryogenically frozen out of this thread by resident jesters and their cronies.

And if you want to trade insults look elsewhere.

I am far too "obtuse" to understand your overworked ramblings.

Maybe someone else would care to play your party games?

#46 BiasedbiasedBBC wrote:
‘Have a look at Sir David Attenborough`s website called "Population Matters" for some rational exploration of this complex issue’
https://populationmatters.org/get-involved/other-activities

I took a look at the website, having long been a great fan of Sir David – wish he was back as the BBC chief again, but he is only a patron of that website. Although he has spoken out many times about human population increase (explosion?) being a major cause of the Earth’s problems, I’m not sure about his stance on the alleged anthropomorphic climate change.

Unfortunately it appears to be a lost cause with no real teeth and neither he nor the website campaigns on behalf of this country’s specific problem due to unrestricted immigration. To become a member of Population Matters requires a pledge: “Make the pledge that you’re going to try to have two or fewer children, and tell others.”

Might as well have a stated exclusion policy against certain ethnic and religious groups that are the main drivers of the UK problem.

@6

Absolutely Indignant! In fact I suggested as much to Population Matters and got no reply!

The big problem now is that every minority has cottoned on to the glorious wheeze whereby they avoid criticism by claiming that their critics are moved by hatred or intolerance.The Pope is at it now,saying that atheists are evil because they don`t see things his way.

I am pretty sure overpopulation was an underlying factor in the Rwandan genocide, but no one would dare look at the experiences of Athanase Seromba for clues because of his connection with a certain religious sect, that can do no wrong!

Why Ming Campbell again? He is a failed party leader He idolises the UN which is like a Rolls Royce but nothing happens when you switch the engine on. He has never been in government and therefore has been spared the difficulty which Ministers have to face which is usually is usually choosing the least bad of several bad options. Orwell wrote that "saints should be judged guilty until they are proved innocent" Ming is seen as a saint by most broadcasters and therefore should be judged accordingly.

Yet another eco-fascist CO2 investment scam !

https://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/aug/31/pipe-balloon-water-sky-climate-experiment

"Whatever happened to the silly season ...?" A short extract from p21 of the new Private Eye:

"...despite an overall rise to 96% in the number of fruity girls getting Four A Levels or more, competition for a place on the front page of the Daily Telegraph has never been tougher......

....those fruity girls who didn't quite make the grade .... have to rely on the clearing system to find them a place in the Daily Mail. ......

....An unwelcome burst of real news in August has all but wiped out this year's crop of silly season stories. ........"

Typical miss informed eco-fascist ideology in action, the new cages are no good the hens will all die of disease and other parasites when the alleged scratching pad soon turns in a rancid pile of manure in the cage with them. Should have just made the regs to put less hens in the existing cages and system, but then it would of not been the false economic growth investment scam that drives all EU legislation and further Whitehall gold plating !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sn91GVfgeU

Peter Marshall's report was pretty damning - and that last line in the studio about the US and UK going to war in Iraq on the basis of evidence obtained under torture was devastating ... Perhaps we need a few prosecutions too in some of the UK institutions that got too close to Gadaffi starting perhaps with application of the OECD Convention on bribery of overseas officials (ratified by UK in 1998) in cases that are now coming to light like this extraordinary Irish Times story of last week involving The British Council - which surely must now lose its 'charity' status (sic):

https://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2011/08/cosy-with-the-gaddafis.html

https://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2011/02/setback-for-british-council-in-libya.html

How cynical is this response from British Council when they were finally caught out in Libya:

"Further to your e-mail of 24th April 2007, I have had a response back from the BC Centre in Tripoli.

The Senior Young Learners Pre-Intermediate 1 class did have one sponsored student. That student was called Student X.

I have checked back on the information we originally provided for you and discovered - I can only apologise - that whereas we correctly listed him as one of our sponsored students, we erroneously described him as a NOC “staff member”. Ian Pennington is perfectly right to point out that he is too young to be a staff member. Student X is actually less directly connected with NOC but was categorised in this way because the relationships involved are quite complex and it would be impossible for registration staff to summarise them in one line on our records.

I can, however, summarise them here: Student X is the son of one of the British Council’s most important contacts in Libya - the Executive Head of the Gaddafi Development Foundation and one of the right-hand men of Saif El Islam Gaddafi, the possible future leader of Libya. The Foundation is highly influential in change programmes across all sectors, including the energy sector and engendering positive relations with their top decision-makers is therefore very useful to us in furthering our objective to assist Libya in oil sector reform. The on-the-spot justification for the sponsorship was therefore that it would help us pursue our capacity building work in the oil sector and BC registration staff pragmatically summarised all of this as ‘NOC’ on our records. We subsequently caused confusion by categorising this particular sponsored student, like the 3 other sponsored NOC employees that term, as a ‘staff member’ in our reporting back to you.

Anyway, the main point is that the student in question was legitimately and transparently sponsored to help build relations with the Gaddafi Foundation and thus help us achieve our capacity-building objectives in the Libyan oil sector. We stand by the decision to sponsor this individual and are gratified by what appears to be a growing public demand for our services in Libya. As long as modest numbers of English course sponsorships continue to help us meet our principal objective of generating mutual understanding and respect between Libya and the UK, it makes perfect sense to continue with the practice."

https://img.ibtimes.com/www/articles/20110901/206879_global-warming-climate-change-ipcc-al-gore-alarmists-cern-experiment-sun-cosmic-rays-chambor-cloud-c.htm

Interesting programme, as always.

However, I feel one of the news packages was not up to scratch.

Specifically, the skateboarding dog. Was he trained, or was it a natural skill? If trained, how? Is it cruel to force a dog to do something so unnatural? (perhaps a follow-up undercover piece on the owner/trainer? - if this is already in the works, and this publicity piece was a cover to help NN investigators gain the trust of the owners for further investigations, then well done and carry on).

However, If the dog somehow picked it up all by himself, what are the implications for the fields of animal intelligence, and does it prove that dog brains are capable of learning to master the wheel, or could there be a deeply-buried phenotypical behaviour in canines related to movement via wheel-mounted planks of wood? It seems unlikely, but if it were true it would surely turn our understanding of the history of canine evolution on its head and is therefore worth investigating.

I understand that Newsnight has to cover a wide range of subjects in a fairly short time, so perhaps NN isn't the right vehicle for this important story. I suggest the BBC devotes a Panorama programme to the issue. The public might not immediately recognise the importance of this story, so as the nation's public service broadcaster I suggest it's your duty to raise awareness in advance of the programme via brief mentions on national news (subtle if need be - run stories on skateboards, and/or dogs - whatever works), followed by a short segment on NN from your science correspondent to build public awareness and interest.

@14

Neil,the British Council could increase mutual understanding with Muslim countries by ceasing their cultural imperialism and withdrawing back to the British slums and sink estates and building mutual understanding between the ruling class and the sort of people who were rioting a few days back.

And a good place to start would be the areas where the London bombers lived and grew to hate our society.

@16

Fair play Fair Pay! You have got me blue sky thinking that with the gradual Blue Petrification of current affairs broadcasting this is a moment to buy a News Night dog with the proceeds of a tin foil collection based on donations of discarded tin foil helmets sent in by the regulars in this comments section.

IN TESTS - 99% OF WOMEN PREFERRED TALLER HIGHER-EARNING MEN .

So the BBC investigated why women STILL earn less than men.

The Silly Season is alive and well Beeb-folk. You are its stewards.

@17 British Council is already trying to moved in on the domestic riot agenda ... that should also be resisted ... the organisation is useless, amateur and compromised ... one of the principal architects of their failed overseas strategy towards the Middle East has recently moved on to peddle his patronising platitudes on 'inter-cultural dialogue' in the UK from a new base in Coventry at an outfit called the 'Institute of Community Cohesion':

https://www.cohesioninstitute.org.uk/AboutUs/OurPeople/ProfessorMikeHardyCmgObe

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DIAGNOSTIC DAVE - HEAL THYSELF

Dave is floundering, out of his depth, and prescribing primitive cures for the ills of THEM. He has absolutely NO AWARENESS of his own damaged psyche, from a traumatic childhood. He demonstrates the Westminster Malaise exquisitely.

WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE

BBBBC

...this is a moment to buy a News Night dog with the proceeds of a tin foil collection based on...

Or Newsnight Action Figures! If it can work for Doctor Who, why can't it work for Newsnight?

Flashing LEDs... built-in digitised recordings of their most famous catchphrases... fully posable arms and legs! Re-create the most epic televised political discussions in your very own home! Think of the possibilities...

Batteries not included. Accessories sold separately. Young children may choke on small parts.

...And for teenage/young adult market, why not market a range of perfumes and aftershaves?

For example, Paxman could enter a tie-in with Hugo Boss to create the distinctive scent of a man who never gets tired, never sleeps, and absolutely. will. not. be over-ruled.

Now that what passes for debate on the BBC seldom rises out of the gutter, I was surprised that you didn't interrupt Hazel Blears to question her closely and repeatedly about her expenses claims for her three houses. If you continue to extend this softly softly respectful tone only to opposition MPs you will remove any lingering doubts about your political bias.
No doubt you will make amends next time you have Chris Bryant, John Prescott or David Blunkett in the studio and interrupt them to ask about posing online wearing only underpants, sex with staff on government premises and mistresses benefiting from expenses claims.

@ 20

Neil,I feel your pain,but of course institutions like the British Council and Westminster and the BBC are amateur and shambollic and a global joke. They can be nothing else!They live a lie!

On the surface they have to pretend to be representing "us",the laughable "British people".

But, in the best traditions of conspiracy fact and theory, there is another ruling class of people running Britain plc whose objectives are completely different from anything we would aspire to if our "horrid nationalistic little Englander populist racist fascist" feelings were not kept firmly in check by Dimblebys and Paxmans and Camerons and Millibands,and a whole army of social police persons besides!

Take the BBC (please do!). From its "English city" base,and at huge cost to us hostages in the shires, the BBC affects to provide a British public broadcasting service to "us".

But what does it really do? Well,for a start it positively worships the greedy crooks and thugs and bullies who run the American Empire,and it better do that if it knows what is good for it!

So we need no complex sociological theory to explain what goes on in the overpopulated foreign occupied slums of Britain.The architects of civil unrest (and our decline as a people) are free to disseminate their culture destroying drivel through the medium of the BBC.

Of course they don`t see themselves as such,any more than the pious pontificaters of Parliament or the holier-than-thou American politicians do either.

No no,they know best,and if they ran Britain and the World it would all be so different and infinitely better than it is now.

But the uncomfortable truth is that they DO run Britain and the world,and their culture has insidiously taken us over.

Their BBC Midwitch Cuckoos broadcast an unremitting endless stream of American materialism,violence,pornography and the glorification of an unworkable, sociologically impractical,multicultural, global capitalist Americanised Britain, without ANY reference to British public opinion at all!

And we can whistle for anything approaching a democracy, and just do as the BBC`s Question Time and News Night Gestapo instruct us to do,Or else!!

GOVE IS 'ON THE DISCIPLINE' AGAIN - IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL NARCOTIC (ask Max)

I have just done a quick check on Michael Gove's most vulnerable period of life - nuff said.

I hold the view that 'discipline', as most understand the word, is oppression, bullying, even torture, set in the Victorian mind-set of: "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you."

I would like to meet Mr Gove and point him to wisdom he does not have: the only discipline that he, and the other Westminster ciphers may HONOURABLY apply, is

SELF-DISCIPLINE.

Both Jaundiced Gove and Damaged Dave would do well to ask ME for a reading list. They should then withdraw from public life until they have disciplined themselves - not the Max Mosely way - BUT THROUGH UNDERSTANDING.

I invite any who read this, to investigate poor Michael's beginnings and wonder at what trauma he had to INTERNALISE, that led to his quest for POWER (never realising that the quest is in many fables, AND IS A DRIVE TO GET CONTROL OVER ONE'S DEMONS, BY THE WRONG ROUTE!)

Worth noting: Gove worked 'for Westminster' and being deemed 'Westminster right stuff' was found a SAFE SEAT. He is a rosette stand. Party politics worked for him - against us. In consequence

WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

OBAMINATION - "JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE" (bin Laden killing)

Justice has indeed been done - in much the same way PPI dupes were 'done', the rioters were 'done' (for as much as would stick) and the bankers WERE NOT DONE FOR ANYTHING.

Justice has been done; and truth will be also - well and truly done - come the 10th anniversary of 9/11. AND OBAMA WILL BE SEEN CONDUCTING THE MASSED CHOIRS OF AMERICAN STATE DECEIT.

Weep World.

Why has the utterly meaningless jesture of James Murdoch 'not accepting his bonus' being taken up as headline news in the business section of the BBC website?

What vested interest does the BBC have in making JM appear to have morals.

Refusing the bonus in the context of his existing wealth is a meaningless act.

Wealth is no longer the issue for these people, it is all about power and influence.

I suppose he re-directed the bonus payment to charity?

Or maybe it just went back into the coffers of NI instead... a company his family has a huge stake in.

Did the journalist or editor who put this up as a headline recently have dinner with a news corp exec by any chance.. or maybe he recently left Newscorp.. or maybe that is his / her next destination?

Why is the BBC engaging in promoting Newscorp as an organisation with morals? There is no balance or context in the article at all.

You are starting to disgust me BBC.

WHAT DO OUR MPs AND BBC EXECUTIVES HAVE IN COMMON? - NO REPLY. (#29)

"Hear hear" Jericoa.

Are they arrogant? Are they without integrity? Are they too scared of the boss? We shall never know while GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.

Perhaps DISCIPLINE is called for?

@29

Jericoah. The deal was this: the BBC were only allowed to destroy their enemy Murdoch on the strict understanding that they replaced him with a Murdochian BBC in News Corporation`s image.

Did Murdoch conspire with Washington and Wall Street to export our industrial livelihood to China (to the dismay of "hard working British people") and bully us into importing millions of poor immigrants (in a quest to "end poverty" in Britain") ?

Not in my recollection. But I know a "public broadcaster" who DID!

'claims made ... which if true'

All worth 'looking at' but, these days, does the spotlight illuminate or add even more shadows?

https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/davidhughes/100102974/when-exactly-did-free-speech-die-in-this-country/

With the BBC obliterating anything it doesn't fancy, from story context to blog comments, the 'view' seems to becoming more limited every day.

@27 A classic post Barrie, you should expand on it in your blog!

In particular: "I hold the view that 'discipline', as most understand the word, is oppression, bullying, even torture, set in the Victorian mind-set of: "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you." "

That certainly resonates with some of my experiences in school, both as a pupil and a teacher. As a pupil, I was fortunate enough to have a number of inspiring and enlightened teachers, as well as the other kind. As a teacher, I realised how relatively fortunate I'd been. Most pupils are made to feel inferior, because they are not the academic 'crème de la crème', and a lot of their time is wasted, performing pointless tasks. They become sullen and resentful because they feel instinctively that they are being 'sold a pup'. They may knuckle down to survive, but their schooling often acts as a sort of aversion therapy which makes them prey to the anti-intellectualism of the tabloids. In that sense, I suppose schools can serve the existing order very well.

The irony is, that although schools can be very cruel, they are also the only place where some students receive any kindness at all. With luck, school can give many their best chance of becoming rounded human beings. Living in a smallish community, it is very satisfying to see how many former 'problem' children have managed to defy predictions and become happy functioning adults. ( I deliberately did not use the word 'succesful' in the last sentence, but some are successful too!)

@29 It sould be noted that papa Rupert accepted his $12.5 million though, presumably for his 'outstanding performance' in managing the hacking crisis, Myspace, etc etc.

@34

It intrigues me see everyone piling in and laughing at Murdoch`s discomfort.Were you so bothered by his antics while he was supporting your favourite political party Sasha?

But I noticed that happening before, when British politicians (like Sir Robert Maxwell, Lady Porter, Lord Paul and Lord Black) had their little accounting problems.

Funny thing is I don`t recall the BBC`s "satirists" mocking them (like they did Enoch Powell), or the Beebs "investigative journalists" following the money back to places like Israel and India with anything like the enthusiasm they would have employed had the alleged wrongdoers been Islamists or members of the so called British far right?

A PSYCHOLOGICAL VIEWPOINT ON THE WHOLE SORRY GLOBAL MACHIAVELLIAN MESS

https://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/boeing.htm

The Enlightenment brought up to date!

@26 Nonsense and it is not in my view helpful to bracket British Council which is a parasitic quango which has just been caught out here dissembling about its links to Saif Gadaffi with the BBC a globally respected independent broadcasting organisation.

@36

Barrie Old Fruit,at the severe risk of attracting your withering displeasure,has it ever struck you that you are being sent off on a false goose chase?

Who cares?

Stop scrabbling about in the ruins of extremist capitalist America.It deserves to die. What really matters is that far too many people were overjoyed to hear of this atrocity.

If we invested the same amount of effort in asking ourselves candidly what makes people hate our American Zionist masters so much that they put up a cheer on 9/11 our civilisation might survive long enough to clean up its act and usher in an age of universal social democracy.

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

'37. At 12:03 3rd Sep 2011, Neil Robertson - Nonsense and it is not in my view helpful to bracket British Council which is a parasitic quango which has just been caught out here dissembling about its links to Saif Gadaffi with the BBC a globally respected independent broadcasting organisation.'

Have to ask, in the spirit of making sense (one man's possibly not being another's, 'n all), but helpful to what, and respected by whom?

Moussa Koussa's secret letters betray Britain's Libyan connection
Messages found in his office show how MI6 gave details of dissident exiles to Gaddafi – and how the CIA used regime for rendition

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/moussa-koussas-secret-letters-betray-britains-libyan-connection-2348394.html

Muslim backlash over 9/11 colouring book:

https://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/08/31/publisher-calls-fbi-over-muslim-backlash-on-911-coloring-book/

Liberalism is a mental disorder:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033309/Two-bail-criminals-commit-crime-DAY.html

Robert Fisk: For 10 years, we've lied to ourselves to avoid asking the one real question

https://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-for-10-years-weve-lied-to-ourselves-to-avoid-asking-the-one-real-question-2348438.html

SERIOUSLY OLD CHUM (#38)

Have you considered that YOUR reality might be the one in need of attention BBBBC?

You are coming over as having a DESPERATE NEED to be the ONLY ONE who is RIGHT.
Indeed, your apparent urgency suggests you fear the sky might fall before the world can know of your omnipotence.

Not a conducive CV.

@45

Forgive me Barrie. I am guilty of a serious misjudgement of character.I forget how prone we can all be to what psychologists call projection!

Though if I sought to telegraph my alleged sense of omnipotence surely I would be using my real name and not hiding my radiant light under the bushel marked BBBBC?

@44
Absolutely right Muse V. Fisk is a star.

But can you imagine him getting air time on News Night or sitting on the Question Time panel with intellectuals like Jane "Barbarella" Fonda or Michael Winner?

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BBBBC (#46)

if you ever formulate a viable recovery plan, based on your (implied) comprehensive knowledge of what ails the world, shall you post an outline?

@45 In a sense Barrie, this is an extension of the discipline debate. I'm sure of that it's a bad idea to reward attention-seeking bad behaviour with the attention craved. It's the equivalent of paying Danegeld, or perpetuating a "look what you made me do" transactional relationship.

I am now persuaded that I was wrong, and your earlier hypothesis is correct. Legion is amongst us and Sméagol and Gollum are conversing with each other. I shan't respond to either any more, as I've got better things to do - and so have you: work on the new blog! ;-D

"BETTER MAN THAN I AM" (#49)

Timely advice Sasha. I was letting my Child have to much rein.

As Ben Elton would say: "Stuff to do!"

Thanks.

48 and 49

Don`t be so childish chaps! You will have the place to yourselves again within minutes!

For several decades I have been of the opinion that we are part of an American Zionist empire and that our masters will asset strip us and export our income generating capacity and inundate us with foreigners until there is a serious risk of a home grown British genocide or civil war.

If you can spare me a little sympathy perhaps you can appreciate that this vision of the future filled me with dread and I sought to avoid it happening within my modest capabilities.

Years of attending Labour Party meetings convinced me that party politics was a dead end,and good friend`s experiences in the other main parties brought them to a similar conclusion.

So on retirement I embarked on a journey through the internet debating forums and was both heartened and concerned to find that I was not alone in seeing Britain`s future in the way I described above.

Recently RT and Max Keiser have boosted my confidence and confirmed what I accept may be a lot of prejudices.

Barrie and Sasha are right about my sense of urgency, but absolutely wrong about my having a sense of omnipotence. Yet I do find this an exciting time and that is probably what you are misinterpreting as arrogance.

I am excited because I truly believe we are very close to being able understand and cooperate with all the different races and nationalities and cultures in a way that the megalomaniac leaders of old made impossible by poisoning us against other groups in order to remain in power.

Unlike a lot of people I think social democracy (of the Scandinavian type during the last century) is a perfectly decent economic/political model,and it`s one that could be used to transform America`s global empire into something truly based on Enlightenment values which we could at last export without using authoritarian regime change and mass murder as we do it.

It seems obvious to me that the sort of people who are represented at Bilderberger meetings will frustrate social democracy unless they are allowed to retain some power and influence. Same with religions and agencies like the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex.They won`t go without a fight if they sense that change means them getting the chop!

Naturally some power will flow down into creating real democracies, but the present oligarchs could well have come to a sticky Gaddafiesque end in a revolution and may chose to throw in their lot rather than get "disappeared".

After all we are very close to a point where global regime change will happen anyway as the era of population increase,usury,piracy,conquest,imperialism and enslaving debt causes a revolution as it collapses.

Those are my thoughts B and S. Nothing clever at all.And it`s difficult to see that happening without a global truth and reconciliation process based on honesty and humility rather the party political games and absurd posturing we get from Hilary Clinton and Cameron and the others.

Just my modest unsophisticated musings! For years my attempts to express them have earned me censorship and angry accusations that I am a racist and xenophobe and Duffyist old bigot when all I was trying to point out was that we can`t cope with our native born population far less provide a welfare state for the third world!

But now my posts are remaining up in forums where before they were binned for being inflammatory .Why? I am saying nothing new or different!

My guess is that the BBC and the other powerful institutions in our society are finally realising that American ideas and culture rule are leading to disaster, so they are open to new ideas after years of pushing capitalism and unsustainable mass immigration down our throats?

Anyway, I have stuff to do too. My son has lost his modest job at Royal Mail and I am poor,so we have to go into business and leave more able sages like you to carry the torch. I wish you well.A lot hangs on British people waking up before it`s too late.

Goodbye and Best Wishes. As they say in Dragon`s Den,"I`m out"!

Looks like the eco-fascists are trying to run a damage limitation exercise with regard to the latest NASA research on heat escaping from the atmosphere, they will still not mention the latest CERN data on cloud formation. Both the NASA and the CERN data would appear to be the equivalent of garlic and a crucifix against the evil vampire of the warmist lobby spearheaded by an eco-fascist BBC.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14768574

"Dr SPENCER IS A COMMITTED CHRISTIAN AS WELL AS A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST" (#52 link)

Well - thank God he is a PROFESSIONAL scientist; I hate the other sort.

But lets get a bit Dawkinesque. A Christian is required to believe, WITHOUT PROOF, that Jesus was the consquence of a union between God (as Holy Spirit) and a human female. That - in a nut shell - is the FAITH.

Hardly the 'Scientific Method' though! The sort of scientist who divides by zero and multiplies by infinity - I shouldn't wonder.

Homo Sapiens has far to go.

SPEAK YOUR MIND AND DEFLATE THE WINDBAGS!

And before I go here`s little constructive observation for the benefit of less confident contributors or would-be contributors.

You may be intimidated by the small cell of assertively vocal and excessively critical types who monopolise these threads, and clearly love the sound of their own self-important voices!

Westminster and town halls are awash with the breed,and with very predictable results!

The trick is never to imagine they are interested in ideas other than their own,because they seldom are,except for target practice!

This is an ego trip for them, so those who fail to adore them are a threat or nuisance!

And ideas that aren`t their own are attacked mercilessly or ignored contemptuously,just so you know who is boss around here!

The trick is to retaliate by asking them their opinion, and then studiously ignoring their answer as a sign of your superiority. Once you do that you will be accorded full windbag status and be part of the inner circle!

This is war! Beware the elephantine egomaniacs in this room!

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON !

#47 BbBBC

Fisk is no star. He is just the pre-eminant reporter on all ME affairs. He lives there.

Bowen belongs to the BBC which is a tool of the state. Fisk is not.

Draw your own conclusions.

BTW - Ask what Sahsa Clarkson does for a living. And who supports his lifestyle in a remote, rural idyll.

His pastimes are quoted on his website as walking and flying kites.

THE EU MIGHT COME GOOD YET

I gather European media are showing more balanced info re 9/11. Anyone reading this, with relevant connections across the Channel, lets have some video with translation or subtitles please.

#53 bs

"But lets get a bit Dawkinesque. A Christian is required to believe, WITHOUT PROOF, that Jesus was the consquence of a union between God (as Holy Spirit) and a human female. That - in a nut shell - is the FAITH."



Some believe that Christianity was a ruse made up by the chosen ones to get the Romans off their backs circa 2000 years ago. Could it really be?

If you are an enemy of reason, then you are no fan of Dawkins. I wonder what Dawkin's opinion of 9/11 is?

Have you ever read Neitcshe? It's hard work...bit well worth it.


The Germans are rarely wrong imh experience.

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WRONG GERMANS (#57)

I worked in Germany the whole of 1969. No shortage of Deutsher Fehler then!

@41: 'helpful' to rational argument on this Newsnight thread; 'respected' by the vast majority of its viewers and listeners - and indeed its competitors.

what is really going on in the middle east?? Read Robert Fisk in the Independent, no hassle and no strings...just as it is....

'60. At 04:51 4th Sep 2011, Neil Robertson'

Ta very much. I just get intrigued by the 'speaking for the people' claims that can get made in certain quarters.

I might humbly suggest a counter view, with the odd URL back-up, but as even BBC ones don't seem to suit the mods if counter-narrative, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree:)

BBBC (who I find myself in the odd position of often supporting whilst disagreeing with fundamentally on most things) put it more pithily in response but, with some irony, his/her posts now have been referred whilst yours remain approved.

Funny old (free) world. Debate is dead. No wonder some give up.

Now, how did that end up before?

OH LOOK! WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE (Darling reports)

How unexpected - Jimmie Brown (he that is known as Gordon) seems to have had behaviour 'issues'.

Could it be that he is driven by inner demons, collected during a traumatic childhood, like - say - St Blair of Jerusalem, Baroness Margaret of Tobacco, 'Ditten-do-it' Dave of Bullingdon and their ilk?

I suggest the common factor is THE WESTMINSTER ETHOS. While the Westminster Citadel still stands, AGAINST THE PEOPLE, we shall continue to decline and

ALWAYS GET OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE

(Take a look at the current crop of aspirants for next PM. See what I mean?) We have best part of 4 years to make sure we DON'T get another one. 'Good men' STOP DOING NOTHING.

I woke this morning thinking that my childish comments and yesterday`s theatrical exit from this thread were acts of petulance and immaturity.I apologise! Who do I think I am?

stevie`s question @61 sums it all up really.

After nearly a decade on the internet and lifetime of interest in British politics I feel more anxious about the future than ever before.And the Fourth Estate seem so often to be a cause of my anxiety as well as my lifeline for information.

But criticising "the media" can be very difficult unless you have the backing of some very powerful people or the sort of money people like Robert Maxwell and Conrad Black could somehow acquire.

Take a simple example that is very close to my heart. My younger son will soon lose his lowly job at Royal Mail because of "rationalisation".

But, as he remarked to me the other day,it won`t be easy to get another job because he is not academically clever and neither is he very confident or to the mildest degree entrepreneurial.

What he cannot ignore is that all around him there are young competitors in the job`s market who started out their life in a foreign country, and many many more whose parents came from abroad,even if they were born here.

Thankfully my son is a stoical kind hearted person,so it`s unlikely that he will ever become aggressive about this apparent injustice to him.

But who is looking out for his welfare in Britain today?

Which media outlet or political party dare ask why we are surrounded here in Middle England by thousands of young Chinese and Pakistani and Eastern European people, all happily taking jobs and starting families and making my visits to hospital seem like a trip to the United Nations building in New York?

And here`s an even more chilling thing to ponder.While we are being fed "facts" about Arab Springs and the "quest for freedom and democracy" NO ONE in the media dare ask what it`s all about, if by asking that question they draw our attention to the real underlying truth,which is that unemployment in the world has now reached crisis proportions.

I wonder why I know very well that Newsnight will never dare give the impact of immigration on unemployment a mention on "Your BBC"?

And why my son will have to join the BNP or National Front if he wants a political voice in free and democratic Britain?

Gosh 64 got through the censors! But for how long?

'63. At 09:42 4th Sep 2011, barriesingleton wrote:
OH LOOK! WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE (Darling reports)

And one can only wonder who the BBC will get to 'comment' on this, from Marr to Newsnight on Monday, unless all will have been deemed to have blown over by then.

One suspects, to ease the public's perception, the usual suspects from the green room will be more favoured, if back from extended schools by now.

Speaking of which, in surfing I found this (risking a BBC URL on the mods, as they seem 'sensitive' to even in-house links that may be counter narrative) interesting:

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14579710

Have to say this, especially, was a potent, if perhaps unintentional insight into the new modding/watertight oversight policies:

'This entry is now closed for comments
Be the first to comment'

Unique. If not that encouraging, free speech wise.

Douglas Adams would have approved, on a 'Beware of the Leopard' basis.

(another 'editor' has, on another blog decided to pontificate about doing his research on our behalf from the bath, rather missing B-Ark ironies)

'66. At 10:20 4th Sep 2011, You -

And one can only wonder who the BBC will get to 'comment' on this, from Marr...'

Ah, so far, so predictable. Mr. Maguire of The Mirror. Doubtless on hand as he seems to have a hammock in the Green Room.

Fair do's, to offset all those Mail commentators brought in daily over the months to address cuts, Coulson and NoTW.

DOUGLAS ADAMS IS DEAD - LONG LIVE DOUGLAS ADAMS (HomSap unhappiness)

Thanks Junkk - reference to DA is always cathartic.

"Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small, green pieces of paper, which is odd, because on the whole, it wasn't the small, green pieces of paper which were unhappy."

Nuff sed

Barrie, the more I look into 9/11 the worse it gets.

Culminating in this thought.

'What if part of a grand plan is to 'expose the myth' once the correct conditions have been cultivated, what would those conditions be do you think?'

You have to look for the sub-texts in the news not the headlines.

This one which caught my attension recently.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14772729

Generate enough volatility generally (economic, political, social, religious) then light the blue touch paper disclosure of 9/11...

I absolutely hate having these thoughts, yet, in the light of 'the 45 minute claim', the dodgy dosier, torture flights, torture by proxy we hear now... in Libya..with the help of Gadaffi and it gets harder to dismiss as proposterous. What kind of government do we have?

The proposterous is already proven.. already 'out there' in plain view.. how much more proposterous can it get than what has occured already?

The unbelievable is already believable.

These thoughts leave me in turmoil, so horrible to contemplate even a grain of truth in them, the natural tendancy is to turn away from it and look for the 'good' alternative explanation. Yet that seems harder and harder to do.

I just dont want to believe it Barrie, its too awful, yet the more I look into 9/11 the harder it gets for me to see it as a 'bunch of guys with box cutters who got lucky' in the implementation of an awful plan.

Yet I also see that, with things as unstable as they are, if it were proven certain interests 'let 9/11 happen' with afew added enhancements of their own, the cure could end up being worse than the disease in the current world fragile state. The 'cure' could be what was hoped for by certain interests in the first place and be far worse than the disease.


I dont want to think like this, I am just a normal guy with a wife and 2 kids who wants to enjoy the world and my family in peace during the time I am here and leave a similar legacy in kind.

What to do?

"THE PREPOSTEROUS IS ALREADY PROVEN" (#69)

It would appear you have 'stepped outside the lie' Jericoa. Have you ever read this?

https://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/165havel.html

Prepare to cry - again.

"What to do?" is a start. Make your mantra: "FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IT IS ONLY REQUIRED THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING".

We can't fix the world, but between now and the NOTIONAL General Election, we can do a lot to fix this country.

DISMANTLE WESMINSTER - SPOLIPARTYGAMES - UNFROCK MPs - INSTALL INTEGRITY.

@66/67

I share your pain Junkkmale, if not your perspectives on the political issues of the day.But notice how my post 64 is being studiously ignored by the BBC`s trusty so called critics? Surely the saloon bar bores have an opinion?

And then just imagine anything critical of Wall Street or Israel getting posted on the threads at "Biased BBC"?Or sarky comments about Newsnight`s use of Daniel Finklestein and Ms Hertz for their opinions on political matters?

Worse still, imagine what an advertisement for the post of Moderator of these threads would say? "Daily Mail reading heterosexuals from the indigenous British "community" will be welcomed with open arms" perhaps?

#70

Not so much stepped outside the lie but starting to think the lie is a much bigger lie than I first thought possible.

Having dipped my toe in that water I find that a reasoned out extension of the particular current dynamic into the future is, frankly, apocalyptic in nature and on quite a short timeframe. Makes my head spin.

I am seeing ulterior motive everywhere now, from the UN latest 'concerns' on Iran to the inexplicable reduction in defence spending in the Uk at this time, HR legislation, the multiculturalism experiment, Haliburtons involvement in the gulf of mexico disaster weakening BP to mention but a very few sickening connections now being made in my head that were previously blocked by a baseline belief in 'the good'.

Thinking along those lines unblocks a sewer containing such unmentionables I fear it would overwhelm my sainity. One needs to tread very carefully with such viral radioactive thoughts around which can lead to imbalance which renders one useless.

Our cat caught a bird yesterday, we pulled it from his mouth, it appeared unharmed except for a vacant look, heavy breathing and some ruffled feathers, we placed it on an old piece of rug on a tree out of the way to see if it would recover.

After a couple of motionless catatonic hours except for bowel movements it flew off.

After doing some research into 9/11 i feel like that bird just after it was pulled out from the cats mouth is all I can describe as being my current state of mind.

@70 Barrie old fruitcake,have you ever had a chat with Martin Bell or Robert Kilroy-Silk and got the lowdown on what happens to MP`s who don`t see things the Washington/Wall Street/Vatican/Tel Aviv/BBC et al.,"way" in "our" Parliament?

Yours is classic "rattle from pram" obsession,which has long been an enormous and debate impeding BORE!

Had the voters

@72 Jericoa. The bird from cat`s mouth image resonates with me,but if it`s any help I have been feeling like that since attending lectures by Max Gluckman in the 1960`s when I think he was editor of Marxism Today.

British politics has been a sham for around a hundred years,and the stream of nonsense dished up to us from Parliament and in programmes like Newsnight and Question Time gives me the political version of sea sickness.I just want to throw up all the time as the rank and fishy smell of utter hypocrisy and lies wafts under my nose.

What worries me most is the feeling of utter disconnection from the world as perceived by my family and friends and the community(?) around me.I think sociologists call it "anomie".

Sorry Barrie, I was going to say that neither you nor I would make ANY impression on politics if we were both gifted seats in Parliament tomorrow.And any one of many better men and women than us could confirm what I say.

#74

Thanks BBBC, really messing with my head at the moment to the point of affecting my functionality in daily family affairs.

I have no choice but to believe what my analytical skills are telling me, but they are telling me something which is so horryfying.. caught in limbo, cant believe it, don't want to believe it, must believe it, cant accept it, no choice but to accept it, cant do anything about it, must do something about it, what about my family, whats best to do, it cant be true.. can it?...no... yes.... its there staring me in the face... just forget it watch TV, need to do my invoicing anyway or no money next month, my design is already late to a client ..must ditch this and get on with it... can't.. it feels so important to understand, need to do tax return soon been putting off for too long .. it cant be true can it?... nah im just being paranoid, maybe i should take that job in Australia.. maybe better out there, stable, protected, isolated, self sufficient.. look after family first... Who can I tell, they will think me mad...will they still let a mad man into Aus with his family? Pull yourself together, stop being stupid, getting obsessed with this.. affecting my jugement.. it cant be true.. it wont pay the bills anyway, kids are missing their dad, always on the computer, grumpy, distracted.


etc etc etc

CATATONIC THROUGH SENSORY OVERLOAD (#70)

I love a good analogy - especially visual. That'll do nicely.

THE BIRD FLEW!

#69 Jerichoa

‘I don’t want to think like this, I am just a normal guy with a wife and 2 kids who wants to enjoy the world and my family in peace during the time I am here and leave a similar legacy in kind. What to do?’

Depends whether you are concerned also for your grandchildren and future descendants – and their thoughts about you.

I have always justified the time I ‘waste’ blogging to an unresponsive media, government (and, to a certain extent the public) by my leaving an audit trail of blogs, letters and my printed memoirs showing that I was neither unaware nor unconcerned at the decline of our nation (never mind the world, that’s way beyond my scope) but could find no other way to arrest the decline which my descendants will inherit, other than to blog my beliefs, keep checking on and sending my criticisms to my MP, never again voting for any of the Big3, and waiting eagerly to join any protest that will arise in my lifetime.
Then I get on with my gardening and appreciation of family, music and Mother Nature.

Similar philosophy to the so-called ‘serenity prayer’ with the belief in a deity replaced by my immortality - of heritage.

“The UK has seen a bumper crop this year and supplies of British plums are plentiful,” he said. “However, it seems that a large proportion of plums on supermarket shelves are imported.”

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/country-view/environment/plum_growers_unhappy_with_stores_1_3719592

plum migrants taking british plums jobs!

supermarkets not supporting uk? not a force for good?

@76 and 78.

Yes folks,let`s just get a sense of proportion about all the stuff on the internet,which feeds into the fund of ideas in our heads which may well have their roots in the religious and science fiction and X-Files and Spooks codswallop we have been drip-fed from birth.

Here`s some substance to stand on which is real and not the fore deck of a political Titanic:

Politics always will be an expression of the wishes of the powerful in any society. Ignore the drivel about equality and democracy,it always was an illusion and an ideal on a par with the meek inheriting the Earth!

The world will not spiral out of control because a few rich men have been exposed as crooks with their hands in our collective till.In fact there is a real chance that some good will come from the social flux which is presently making us feel queasy.

Politicians (and journalists!) always serve the powerful interests in society,and they don`t get their jobs unless they toe the line, whatever they may say at election time! Nor do they keep their "careers" if they go "off message"!

Journalists could help us develop a more mature understanding of the realities behind politics if they would screw up the courage to blow the whistle a lot more!

(That`s a dig in Newsnight`s ribs!!!)

Here is a Sunday Mail headline:

"Devastating secret files reveal Labour lies over Gaddafi: Dictator warned of holy war if Lockerbie bomber Megrahi died in Scotland"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033460/Secret-files-Labour-lied-Gaddafi--warned-holy-war-Megrahi-died-Scotland.html


Can you imagine if the Torys had've been in that headline rather than Labour..the BBC would be all over this story..and for weeks. Presently the Beeb are just giving it a tickle around the edges.

Another thing the BBC are ignoring is the sytematic murder of many black libyans. This western supported war was to save the lives of the innocents but it would appear more innocents have been killed due to the wests intervention so the reasons given for dropping bombs and arming rebels somehow rings hollows. All we have done is slow down the progress of a north African country and put it back a thousand years thanks in most part due to a certain ideology thats linked with a certain branch of a hardline religion. Meanwhile we get a hand in its operations due to place men and no doubt its resources. Imperial gloablist corporate takeover text book stuff this but the beeb give it the usual saccharin treatment.
The BBC are losing credibility by the day. And thats why it will be broken up and sold off before the next election...well thats what some titled fella said anyhow...a Lord I do believe it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsbKrtVTcU&feature=feedu

#79 jaunty wrote:

"plum migrants taking british plums jobs!"


You're just a fruitist!


Remember someone else using that expression?

@81

PUT NOT YOUR FAITH IN LORDS AND LADIES KEV!

Private Eye could supply you with a long list of "honourable members" who the BBC dare not expose for what they really are Kev, but safe to say if a Lord is behind it then the whole thing needs a very close examination by a group of people with that rare quality we call integrity!

Of course the BBC should become what it says on that label on the tin written by the likes of Lord Reith. It should be in PUBLIC ownership,and not flogged off to organised crime or "oligarchs" or allowed to become the property of their appointees in Parliament!

If we wanted to pay four billion pounds for a "service" supplied by the likes of Murdoch and the CIA we would have said so.

But of course we weren`t asked,were we boys and girls!

@82 Brossen,I don`t have a science background but I am very interested in sociology and politics, so it strikes me Climate Fool`s Day is a good idea but their approach involving writing to MP`s is NOT!

MP`s are the most powerless people in our society behind the sex slaves shipped in under the noses of the sort of people who should be protecting them from exploitation.

Writing to "your" MP is a bit like Medieval peasant asking the Sheriff of Nottingham for a reduction in his taxes,or Oliver Twist asking for more food!

MP`s get where they are today by pretending to represent your interests but quietly betraying you if they are ordered to do it.

Would I be any different if I was an MP?

I doubt it very much!

Of course I would rationalise letting you down as me "not giving in to populism" or "giving that bigoted old Mr Biased a well deserved black eye".

Then I would send the kids off to private education with my ill-gotten gains,like many more before me!

PARTY-LABEL MPs HAVE NO PERSONAL MANDATE FROM VOTERS

We all know that the voters mostly vote for the rosette. (In the few weeks of electioneering, candidates saying: "Vote for me" are tacitly saying: "Vote for my rosette.")

I am pondering what is the quasi-legal status of such MPs whenever they exercise a PERSONAL judgement or choice. It doesn't FEEL like Rule of Law to me.

Add to the above, the non-existence IN LAW of political parties, and I would say the mess is described in two words: WESTMINSTER ETHOS. Democracy it isn't.

DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - SPOILPARTYGAMES - DEFROCK MPs - INSTALL INTEGRITY

On topic

Libyan papers show UK worked with Gaddafi in rendition operation
A secret CIA document shows that British and Libyans worked together to arrange the removal of a terror suspect to Tripoli

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/04/libyan-papers-show-uk-rendition


My post #58 on this topic was wiped yesterday. Maybe the woding was a bit strong for the mods.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

On topic

MI5 former chief decries 'war on terror'
https://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/mi5-war-on-terror-criticism

Manningham-Buller gave the first 2011 BBC Reith Lecture, which is to be broadcast on Radio4 on 6 September, and is entitled 'Terror'.

How apposite, and what exquisite timing given the evidence about MI6 collusion in special rendition with the Libyan authorities, that was discovered in Tripoli over the weekend.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00729d9/episodes/upcoming

IN 2001 A POLL SHOWED 66% CONSIDERED 'JUST WILLIAM' A WALLY (#87)

Watching him posture almost daily on 'How to run an Arab state' (and remembering his failed attempt at running a UK party) I would guess he is close to 100 by now!

WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE

#88 'This comment has been referred for further consideration.'

Good grief!

Manningham-Buller (Baroness) should be answering questions under oath, not giving out lectures.

I think our government`s laughable claim that "we don`t do torture" more or less sums the problem up.

Not only is it expressed in a fashionable American way but it should be accompanied by some context like "we don`t do democracy or truth telling or anything which might disturb the special relationship of master and servant".

I feel sorry for our politicians and civil servants.They have to play act the fantasy of an independent British nation, which Everyman and his dog knows to be a patent untruth, while Newsnight spends its life interviewing Americans about "our" British current affairs.

Westminster is what Barrie suggests,an expensive fraud on the voting public. Even the BBC might as well change its name to the Voice of America or the Zionist Global Capitalist Broadcasting Corporation Inc.

And who is fooled by this political and economic pantomime any longer?Would it not be a vast improvement if the British public knew the truth about our status as a satellite of the USA.

Surely then they could begin to know where to address their protests and finally understand why nothing our politicians do seems to be in our interests as a separate independent nation?

Would it not be a breath of fresh air if Newsnight could honestly address issues like:Why we are at war with the Muslim World? Why we can never criticise the dodgy behaviour of financiers on Wall Street or the behaviour of Israel?Why we are forking out trillions to keep American foreign policy in Europe going,etc?

Off topic, but topical (as barrie would say)

David Cameron wants to see a significant watering down of any proposals from the Independent Commission on Banking (ICB) to ring-fence the UK's retail banks.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8739847/David-Cameron-in-push-to-dilute-ICB-ring-fence-reforms.html

Remember the poster that kept banging on about libertarians, free-markets (or rather rigged markets) and anarchy (i.e. deregulation)? Looks like watered down banking regulation will win the day. This is now getting very sinister. Call-me-Dave is a cosmopolitan Bilderbanker. So no surprises in this story that neo-con-Dave is taking care of his sponsors.

Under Cameron’s coalition gov’t, immigration is up, public spending is up, foreign aid is up, EU contributions are up and there’s been no EU referendum. There’s also been no reform of the Human Rights Act. All good for business btw.

Anothers musing on a Pythons comments.

https://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2011/09/celebrities-note-death-of-london-and.html

@90 Barrie I am no Tory supporter but Just William was removed from his role as leader because he was making mincemeat of Washington`s little lap dog Tony Blair in the Commons.

Did it never strike you as strange that any political party that was serious about challenging American-run "New Labour" replaced him with IDS?

Tony Blair 'is godfather to Rupert Murdoch’s children'
The former Prime Minister is godfather to Rupert Murdoch’s youngest children, according to an interview with the media tycoon's wife.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/8740530/Tony-Blair-is-godfather-to-Rupert-Murdochs-children.html


Libertarians of a feather flock together!

They're coming thick and fast now, Sunday eveing has traditionally been a good time to release bad news.

IMF: global economy faces a 'threatening downward spiral'
The International Monetary Fund has called on the US and Europe to abandon fiscal austerity and switch to stimulus measures, warning that the global economy faces a "threatening downward spiral".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8740736/IMF-global-economy-faces-a-threatening-downward-spiral.html

"The spectrum of policies available is narrower because a lot of ammunition was used in 2009. But if governments, institutions and central banks work together, we'll avoid recession," she told Der Spiegel.

German endgame for EMU draws ever nearer

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8740389/German-endgame-for-EMU-draws-ever-nearer.html

THE AGE OF PERVERSITY IS NOT WHIMSEY (#94)

In my working life, I was well acquainted with at least one TRULY PERVERSE individual.
I have a strong suspicion that they are highly over-represented in Westminster.

I have seen perverse behaviour (banal and nihilistic) that, if described to genteel folk at the local fete, WOULD BE DISMISSED OUT OF HAND. They can't believe - don't want to believe!

This is the problem - this is what the BBC, in its own special PERVERSITY, will not address.

One simple illustration: The last three PMs have ALL hired Machiavellian DARK ARTISTS as close aides. Much social damage accrued. WE pay the price. The common factor is WESTMINSTER, but the BBC does not bring this to public notice.

FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH, ITIS ONLY REQUIRED THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.

FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IT IS ONLY REQUIRED THAT GOOD HONEST DECENT WELL INTENTIONED PEOPLE STUBBORNLY PERSIST IN GRASPING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK WHILE CHASING FALSE GEESE AND REFUSING TO ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE TILTING AT WINDMILLS!!!

CAN YOU HEAR ME DOWN THERE BARRIE? STOP DIGGING THAT HOLE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT A FUTILE OBSESSION!!