Friday 4 February 2011

They have succeded in their alleged objective and Mubarak will keep his promise to go. Mrs Sief and her friends can relax and join with other Egyptians in celebrating a relatively bloodless revolution.

Now America`s puppet regime will be peacefully replaced by an Egyptian controlled democracy of all the talents ....and the muslim world can show us slaves of materialism and global capitalist debt how REAL democracy is delivered!

..Asked to define the Big Society in lay-man's terms, he says: "It's the belief that local people can come together to solve problems they care about better than government or anyone else, and supporting them to do so financially and by cutting bureaucracy,

"The Big Society is about doing the impossible"...

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23920428-how-my-top-government-job-left-me-almost-penniless-and-unable-to-support-my-family.do

It's a belief...so a religion then?

given Cameron has said Big Society is one of the big three priorities of his government isn't it naive for him to accept "The idea was that I'd come on a paid basis, but because the quota for paid government advisers was full, at the last moment it turned out to be unpaid"?

the quota was full? hahaha. so big society not that important then? which other paid advisers were more important?

list is here

https://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/13/government-special-advisers-list

Jaunty @ 33 Thursday questions the questioner's abilities.

No, The Warkster is just perfect (ok thats debatable but). Listen again to the questions she asked John Mcain. Here's one Kirsty fired off: Why didn't Obama say anything about the Iranian uprising?(Barry Obama never said a word..not a word!) but the Obama admin are jumping all over Murbarak who has happily gone along with Washington's wishes for 30 years. She made Mccain look his usual self ..wet and weak. He said Obama has learnt lessons after the Iranina uprising..yeah save it Johnny boy, giving out yet more excuses for this pretender president..and you've pulled out your hero card a little bit too much lately, stop riding it John, stop riding it.. And how he has the nerve to call himself a republican I'll never know.
I digress and I'm all wound-up now. Do you think Emily -nice enough as she is and all that - would've got that kinda question in, or Gavin for that matter. The Warkster also made Lian Byrne look like the Political hack that he is with just a few choice questions..almost sublime.
I still can't believe Liam Byrne was born in 1970.

hmmm. Real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2FFEufsuY

worth a mention, NN?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid_9385000/9385075.stm

well spoken, lord Sugar.

Sally Bercow: my god, some MPs are fuddy-duddys, aren't they??

you go, gal! :D

#2 jc:
The Big Con

Your post and links were completely off-thread - highlighting the fact that rebelions elsewhere in the world are not just providing “many a good day to bury bad news” (at home) but are hiding “many a bad policy that should be buried – after proper examination and inquest”. (by NN?)

The Big Society Czar suggests that bankers should give more to charity, as did the cosy chat between Paxo and Boris the other night. But, hang on, this is not about philanthropy. The banks made those huge profits (now destined for shareholder dividends and top-dog bonuses) from gambling with MY MONEY. I gave them the few bucks I could spare from my pension, so that I could at least keep up with inflation, and the best they can eke out of my invested funds is a miserable 3% in interest ?

Surely the BOE watchdog must be able to examine how those huge sums (for bonuses and dividends) were levered by gambling with the funds provided by me and others for investment, and yielded far more than 3%!

If so, cut all this talk of philanthropy and examine entitlement.

I may be naïve, but don’t call me stupid (or Shirley).

perhaps the West should play our foreign policy with a straight bat and if? were are breaking our own rules and operating with double standards to seriously consider what this is designed to achieve?

the answer is nothing but pain for all of us

Bush and Bliar are out of the picture now thank goodness so perhaps we can behave more ethically in they way were conduct our foreign policy?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

repost part 2: noreena was a complete liar. Did anyone feel *any* genuine emotions from her talking about the forests? She would have easily argued either side of the argument. She had memorised the speech. Pretty speech though, wasn't it?

green: so its *all* about the inheritance tax, because the Govt as now ruled out any other benefit from the rent-off! This is a yet another way for the Tories to benefit their wealthy patrons, because the forests become effective tax-havens on inheritance.

- green said "its about bringing community groups onto the decision-making - then simply make it a regulation that community groups can sit on the boards - instead of just quangos!!!! (Although THIS Quango seems quite popular. :) )


there is no need to privatise to get the Public involved.

repost part 3: dead stag? Melanie, the earth is on the edge. You lot have no answers that are not so horrific you can't admit them to the Public. Instead you are constantly trying to create a state of permanent Culture war with Islam. Nothing would survive such a war, Melanie, *NOTHING*. Wake up and smell the bacon, its time for the exploitation to end.


nice "no cuts" speech from Burnham - pity he was also in ****favour**** of deep cuts. Some of us have memories.


why was this post deleted mods? For the same reason that there were 3!!! 'neo-cons'/BBers on the panel tonight?

7

in the old days the uk would have dropped paratroopers to secure the canal? [Big society]

the western hysteria in some of the interviews is comic......muslims oooh. The israelis have been blindsided and face now been surrounded by 'arab democracy'. Don't think they will like that.

i agree with your bank analysis. Should state backed industries be paying massive bonuses? The logic being an industry that can pay such bonuses doesn't need public subsidy? why is there no moral hazard. Unemployment benefit ends after 6 months and people have to prove they are looking for work. The banks don't. there is no timeline to stop the subsidy nor to pay it back. its an endless credit line. And what do we get? Commodity price inflation caused by people betting on the taxpayer making good any loses. Brilliant.

8
i agree -increasing justice increases stability.

but when i look at who owns the middle east desk in the FO for the last 10 years justice [and thus stability] isn't a high priority?

The minister in charge of Middle East affairs is Alistair Burt

He is praised by these people

https://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=175924

while these people take a dim view of the appointment.

https://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/01/london%E2%80%99s-foreign-office-might-as-well-relocate-to-tel-aviv/

bush and blairism live on?

again QT: green: so its *all* about the inheritance tax, because the Govt as now ruled out any other benefit from the rent-off! This is a yet another way for the Tories to benefit their wealthy patrons, because the forests become effective tax-havens on inheritance.

- green said "its about bringing community groups onto the decision-making - then simply make it a regulation that community groups can sit on the boards - instead of just quangos!!!! (Although THIS Quango seems quite popular. :) )


mods, hate-mongering about moslems is still hate-mongering! So Israel is under pressure? The guy in the audience said it spot-on - All Isreal has to do is stop abusing its neighbours, and treat the Palestinian people as PEOPLE, with the same rights that Jewish Israelis would expect.

its an infinitely better plan than aiming for a permanent war with the Middle East. Sorry, melanie.

and if people on the panel of QT are blatantly lying, let them take it to court if the blogosphere points it out. Burnham's little speeches flat out contradicted every other public statement he has made, oily little BBer that he is.

#13: i'm sure Birt was as horrified by Israel's attacks upon unarmed aid convoys, on Israel's use of British Passports to murder people, and in Israel's murderous assault on the helpless residents of Gaza as any moral person was.

of course, Iran, that doesn't have WMD, that hasn't invaded any neighbours in living memory, that has almost entirely complied with the UN body for nuclear power, that was mortally opposed to the Taliban, that had a recent Citizens uprising against their tyrannical Govt, that is multi-ethnic and multi-faith, that has accepted millions of refugees from Afghanistan, and has been faced with a permanent threat of "being bombed back to the Stone Age" by the US for the last 10 years whenever Washington felt like it, clearly, it is Iran that is the greater threat.

and i'm sure Birt accepts this reality in his Public statements. Right?

it seems i *was* right!

Unfortunately, Birt doesn't seem to have the same sense of irony. :/

15 Mork
What can we "do" about Israel...the Zionists have so much power over our society and our media that folk like Bob Maxwell and Lady Porter seem completely free to do as they please and take the proceeds down to the Zion that no one dare ever criticise?

God knows how much it has cost us and the USA to keep her afloat..and have we really done all those poor deluded racialists a favour by not challenging the whole idea far more? Perhaps we should all demand a homeland? Fat chance here in BBC-policed Blighty!

I do wonder whether they have some collective death wish living where and how they do?

It is pathetic to invite Douglas Murray to speak about Egypt,a country he hasn't visited much, does not know enough Arabic and is not known to have academic qualifications or prior research experience about Egypt's
political actors.

Sally Bercow.

Texted to 61124 BBC News 24 at 11.05 this morning.



"The inordinate and childlike hoo-ha about Ms Bercow just shows how hypocritical and out of touch politicians and some aspects of the media are!

Get real and Get a life!"



A couple of further thoughts:

Two thousand and eleven Anno Domini.

Women ..... Chattels?

Chattels ..... Women?

Not!


And what difference does her independence affect the Speaker?

None what-so-ever!


Get real and Get a life!

What prevents newsnight from offering informed opinion from firsthand experts rather than bringing Mr. Murray to offer wisdom borrowed from internet. Why we dont hear from Tarek Osman author of the latest book, Egypt on the Brink: From Nasser to Mubarak. When will we hear from, Gilles Kepel, leading expert on Islamism. When newsnight invited Dina Shehata author of Islamists and Secularists in Egypt: Opposition, Conflict, and Cooperation? Can Peter Rippon explain why Murray takes a precedence over Bruce K. Rutherford author of Egypt after Mubarak: Liberalism, Islam, and Democracy in the Arab World?

'MUSLIMS MUST EMBRACE CORE BRITISH VALUES' - WOT, LIKE MPs DO DAVE?

What an absolute gift to a spleen-monger like me!

Let's have a look at British Core Values, as signalled by the behaviour and utterances of members of the Westminster Parliament.

On second thoughts, it would make me 'physically sick'. All I can do is beseech Muslims in this country, to embrace NOTHING that is typical of the Westminster Ethos.

What on earth was the end credit / theme tune this evening? If I want to hear badly played, out of tune multi-tracked trombone playing, well, I wouldn't know where to go, but I rather I wasn't subjected to it.

#20 Whadayamean Barrie?! It's called “muscular liberalism” ; )


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/8305346/Muslims-must-embrace-our-British-values-David-Cameron-says.html

Why make the speech in Germany, when he's talking about the UK?

news@10: the "cyberwar": the war is against the users. ANY legislation that comes out of this so-called "cyberwar against the State" is going to have 'back-doors' in the legislation that removes freedoms from users. You watch.


there might be more train users if - WHEN - petrol gets more expensive. Perhaps more trains daily to these stations would increase usage also? cutting public services when more might need to use them soon seems pyrrhic?

hard to use a service if it isn't there.

NN:

neoconservatism bloke: Why DO yo support Israel so much? What is it about Israel's current policies that fits your conspiracy*?

[*Everybody who has ever worked for a corporation knows that corporations conspire all the time. Politicians conspire all the time, pot-dealers conspire not to get caught by the narcs, the world is full of conspiracies. Conspiracy is natural primate behavior.

o The I in the Triangle, speech held at a bookstore in Santa Cruz, California (1990)

https://thinkexist.com/quotes/robert_anton_wilson/
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_Anton_Wilson%5D


however the SOAS lecturer was wonderful, a perfect example of what a "Academic Opinion" should be. I wish i could read a transcript of what she said. Thank you NN for inviting her!! :* [big MWAH!!]


on Sally berkow: ITS HIS WIFE!!!!

totally agree with the Tory female MP. !XX


camoron can [bleep] off. HIS Govt is not only still militarily occupying Muslim Nations, his Govt is imposing the most *EXTREMIST* policies upon its own population - even according to DAVOS!! And HIS Govt is trying to drag living standards for the UK majority DOWN to Afghan levels!!

He wants English-Moslems to "report extremists" he should expect an avalanche of emails from *everyone* pointing out who are the REAL extremists in the UK.

---having said which, TRUE extremists who really ARE threatening the UK SHOULD be turned in - no matter why they believe they are doing it for.

attacking civilians is wrong, anywhere, for any reason. It is a pity the Uk and US Govt do not recognise that.


----radio 1 is good tonight. :)

20 Sound point Barrie!
Venture out of an evening into our city centres and look at the behaviour of the faded flower of our like yoof ...careering about half naked and drunk as skunks...and then ask yourself whether we have anything to teach Muslims about protecting and guiding their young people.
We are just Sodom and Gomorrah 2...the sequel...but listen too Dave or Woman`s Hour and reality evaporates away!

Re Sally Bercow; the old twits in the Establishment really need to get a life.

Good on ya Sally.

#25: yeah, but its *fun*, wj!!

people develop different 'fun' when they get older. I bet Barrie enjoys this forum. So do you. So do i.


but let the young ones have their fun, for gods sake. There's enough time to grow up when we need to grow up. :heart:

life's good, offer them a better future, and they will join in. Don't judge them now. ?


be cool. :)

SPOT THE EXTREMIST - AND DENY HIM INFLUENCE (#22)

Those who declare they would be 'PHYSICALLY SICK' if prisoners were given the vote, betray a level of hysterical rhetoric that surely arises from an extreme state of mind? Dave is AUTHORITARIAN in general demeanour, style of utterance and (as above) choice or idiom.

I hate to be intolerant (as you know) but DAVE MUST NOT BE TOLERATED.

In passing: what has happened to Dave's head? It looks nothing like the bloke on the poster, about a year ago. Might he be subversive as well as extremist?

INTERNATIONAL EXTREMIST (#22)

Well whadaya 'spect Lizzy?

tonight's NN: the neo-conservative claimed that Indonesia was a model for Egypt to follow in the neo-con view, here's a look at what he meant.

THIS is democracy, neo-conservative style:

https://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/19/indonesias-democracy-still-shaky-ground

those of us experienced with politics may have expected something like this, but he sure sounded 'genuine' at the time, doesn't he?

but then, how different is this from we experience in the UK and US? And IS THIS what we want Egypt to become?

this is what he offered as an alternative to "Islamic Fundamentalism" - as though the only alternative was a Saudi Arabian style dictatorship, or a mubarak-style dictatorship!


does it need saying, that that is what they are HOPING will happen?

if the last thing they want is a PR-based, multi-party, freely elected representative Govt - ..for *us*! ........!?


i hope the Egyptians get through this period safely. But generals - the corruption needs dealing with. Early voluntary moves to change ownership of assets to the users and workers, may well stifle demands to have the accumulated wealth removed as well. Its in the Qoran, - you *know* what is coming. Prevent the corruption of the priests, by ending your own voluntarily.

you will retain your status, and the stability of the country. It is time Egypt broke free of the West, and developed itself. Be part of it.

get rid of mubarak, and the soulless ones who kept him in power. The people are YOUR people, take care of them. Its time for democracy.

please support your people.

#22 lizzie: read his words, and ponder the Tory message for British youth compared to this educational vision (and practice):

https://www.educationfutures.org/Respect.htm

which of these best exemplifies British values as he claims them? Were Muslims to have to political clout the right-wing press seem to be claiming all the time, WHY did the UK go to war with the Middle East? Can somebody tell me that?

If the UK is under extremist Shariah Law, then why did we also to try to "free" the Afghanis?

from *my* perspective, the group that has removed British liberties are this Govt, and the UK Govts that preceded it in the last 30 years.

after that i would say the effects of the deliberate propaganda of the mass media.

and long after that, i would say the ACTUAL threat from Muslim extremists - and my deepest apologies to those who lost people in 7/7.


but it was not those suicide bombers that have taken away our rights since the Criminal Justice Acts.

if we want to integrate people, then lets make the UK culture far and away the best - and that means letting people experiment, criticise the Govt freely, and have a decent educational system that empowers the students, not lock them into conflicts with authority.

If State schools were good enough, Moslems would send their kids there, and they would appreciate Britain more. Just like our kids.

forcing people to obey, integrate and accept, rarely creates good results.

for anyone.

#22: lizzie, sorry for sounding argumentative, it was camoron that was annoying. Hope you didn't mind? :*

1415 Trust Me Persia wants its Empire Back

Inher Tax .. I have nothing 2 leave .. If I had I wouldnt leave It In A Stupid State

Mrs BerCow did she get her Hits out for the Lads or for Hersein

2025 Pissheads on the War Path? that really in an Insurmountable Problem

A Good Hosing down with Cold Water in Mid Winter OH Such Fun and a nite night in an unheated Sell

Its Just 2 EAZY IKnit

U.A.E some time A GO young Silly Stupid Couple neckin on the Beach what a bitch, after Several Warnings (2) buy the local plod

They were arrested classed as undeSirable and given The Boot

Commit Mass Murder Rape Honor Kill your OWn children and other Nastys and You WILL BE Rewarded My Son

Life which isnt Life in a lovley jubbley Hotel

you IDIOTS wonder Why Your Skint .. You Pay For IT

Not Me brothers & Sisters .. I Just Piss myself Laughing at All of You

one day my son thisIll all b yurs .. what Curtains

I had to look twice at this headline

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8301100/Court-bans-man-with-low-IQ-from-having-sex.html

What happened to Human Rights?

WHY WE WENT TO WAR IN IRAQ (#31)

Leadership, in an intrinsically immature society, comes down to pressure of personality from the leader. The personality of those who strive to run the lives of others, boils down to raw NEED. Those with charisma - a purely animal attribute - are very persuasive. Rationality comes nowhere.

Dubya Bush (and a coterie of very weird Machiavellians) decided to clobber Iraq. (Pick your own reason.). Blair - wanted to be King of the World, but the job was taken, so second-best was to gain as much approval from King Dubya as he could; he became Dubya's fixer/yes man.

IDS (by my judgement a very need boy - see below) had become Tory leader (by one of those perverse Westminster quirks) and seemed to go for the position of Court Jester. He was dazzled by Blair, overshadowed by his war-hero father, and UTTERLY OUT OF HIS DEPTH: the quiet man, who had no idea how to turn up the volume. His vote for war was a desperate attempt to be what he is not, and his Tory MP ciphers, almost to a man, obeyed him, just because - in perverse Westminster - the leader must be followed.

No one need research Blair - he is now writ large in a 'World Kingdom' of his own imagining. As for IDS:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-contradictory-world-of-iain-duncan-smith-630691.html

So many wars start in a similar way - do they not?

Nuf sed.

dirty/clean 7

can any of the above sPawn them selves in2 useless prawns .. Man does have A need 2 Empty The Bag

Pass The J ArtHer RANK Mag

Nothin Wrong with A Healthy Dose? of Sex

As Long (eh) as its Free of Fear/Fraud/Force .. Age Limit Applies

I must Stress Miss Stress76uk the Bag has 2 B Empteed from time 2 time
it reduces Stress

Check Equpmeant/Check Plumbing 1st/thirst 2 I.A.'s / S.O.Pee's

GOOD-SCHOOL BAD-SCHOOL (#31)

Sounds like a great improvement Mork. But surely STILL an institution?
I wonder if they can fend off being INSTITUTIONALISED? After all, it is not what Nature would do. I am much persuaded that a lot of our social problems are attributable to institutionalised masses.

School breaks the normal link between 'specific nurturers' and the child, and also limits the 'parentising' of said nurturers.

We can have NO IDEA just how damaging this has been, in terms of maturity in individuals - and society as a whole - but look around! SOMETHING has gone very wrong.

HAVE ANYONE EVER MET A MAN HAVING SEX IN POSSESSION OF HIS MARBLES? (#37)

That has to be the ultimate joke-ruling 76. The 'Ape Confused by Language' has nothing on the 'Ape Consumed by Lust'! Even if he is alcohol-free, the poor fool is minimally conscious from the effects of testosterone and anoxia.

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT

My radio just told me: "You can't have a limited amount of democracy"!

I think that correspondent spends too much time out of this country.

37 Re your last .. I do remember A Nulabour Council Taking A Mother's Children off her due 2 her having A Low IQ, She And her Husband were Mortified So Was I

Social SerVices looking after Children, Is that A Sick Joke?

MUSCULAR LIBERALISM - OMG! (#22)

Just heard Dave . . .

I think I am going to be physically sick - again.

Will Muscular Liberalism sit comfortably with Compassionate Conservatism? Charles Atlas used to sell 'Dynamic Tension' for us to have to have a 'body like his'. If I embrace Muscular Liberalism - will I get a brain like Dave's?

RUN AWAAAAAAAAY!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

LOL Auntie got Somthing Against sKIDDING how Very Strange

13 UNLucky nulabour years, thats all they did .. all over the plaice

BOMBay Duck and Cover

Like I Sort Of Said .. I Am Warming 2 The Cameronian

Can He Take The Bull By The Horns
Can He Get Amongst It/Get Amongst The mongs

Does The Truth Hurt You/Me

It just makes me Puke Now and AGain, It does'nt Hurt Me

I DUNNO DAVE - IF I WERE AN 'UNHEARD MUSLIM' I WOULD DESPISE BRITISHNESS NOT MY OWN EXTREMISTS.

Dave is surely a closet 'pith helmet' with a wagging finger. He is TOTALLY unable to visualise what impact our posturing, self-aggrandising stance, backed by blatant corruption, has on those of a different culture.

He demonstrates, daily, how unsuited he is to sort out the multiculture mess. He will move on from politics, in due time, still full of himself and expensively under our protection - HAVING SOLVED NOTHING. Truly the heir to Blair.

WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

38 Barrie...it`s my guess that our Yankee masters got rid of Hague (despite his loyal donning of a baseball cap at Alton Towers) because he was making mincemeat of "their man" Blair in the Commons at PMQ`s

IDS was selected for his ability to make St Anthony look cleverer than he is.

#19; the answer to why Murray gets on NN while the people you mention don't is threefold;

Networking; Murray will know the right people in the right places.

Branding; Murray will market himself as the "neo-con" voice, therefore "rent-a-head" at NN calls Murray when they need one.

Competence; Murray will not embarrass Gavin by talking about things Gav don't get; Murray's point about Indonesia was lifted from an article in the Independent; he's a magpie with good meeja connections.

This whole Islam/multicultural/muscular liberal thing is getting a bit
strident.

"Multiculturalism" as practised here in UK and as has been in Germany fails because of many contributory factors;

The lack of balance in accepting both the new "culture" and the existing culture; eg people from Bangla Desh move to Oldham to work in the mills; they receive housing in places where the indigenous population are suspicious, for all sorts of reasons; these people take the earliest opportunity to move out, leaving homes to be bought up by landlords and re-rented to - the incoming Bangla Deshi workers; and so the ghettos are formed. In the ghetto, be it in New York's Little Italy, in Warsaw or in Bradford's Manningham Road, there is no motivation to speak the new language; but when coming in contact with officialdom, be it at work or at a hospital, "community spokespeople" begin to take on the role of interpreter; often these people are part of the landlord's extended family.It is in these ways that the sense of "apartness" or "otherness" grows.

In addition, through well-meaning ignorance, culture and religion become confused.

Egypt, Bangla Desh, Iran and even Turkey are classed as "Islamic" countries and their cultures are as different as China's and Holland's.

There is, once and for all, no such thing as "Islamic dress"; there are various cultural takes on what the Q'uran calls "modesty", subsequently reflected in dress conventions; but none of these are holy writ.

The historical figure of landlord/interpreter/community spokesperson is powerful and is rarely given up willingly, so often the "multicultural" card is played to defend that position.

And again, through well meaning ignorance, issues are not faced but avoided and the status quo prevails and the gap widens.

And then, because of economic cycles, all those jobs that the Bangla Deshis did gradually either become attractive to the indigenous population viz."I can't get a job because the foreigners have them all" OR,which is sadly more likely, the jobs the Bangla Deshis had disappear altogether and it then becomes; "foreigners getting benefit handouts."

Culturally, work needs done on the UK indigenous population also; this obdurate, truculent attitude to foreigners is weird; the Queen is German, her husband is Greek the majority of the indigenous population are Anglo Saxon, Jute, Frisian, Viking or Norman French in ancestry, the Scots are named after an Irish tribe so called by the Romans and the national dish is chicken tikka masala!

Maybe it's to do with a lost Empire, a deep reluctance to learn other languages, whatever.

Nevertheless, I'm glad it's now a topic for political discussion; let's hope there's some beneficial actions arising from the debate.

And the only true Brits are the Welsh.

Latests wikileaks:
Obama administration gave away British nuclear secrets to the Russians!

Just wondering, has that been reported on the BBC.

.."Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added...

so says a patron of the JNF and a monarchist [that fail the above tests]. I suppose the king's Torah will be ignored?

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

50 kashi ..I hope you don`t mind me disputing some of the points in your otherwise pretty accurate summary of the great multiculturalism disaster.

I am a celtic/norse mixture.My surname is Welsh but three of my grandparents were gaelic speaking Scots from the Hebrides.

Many of my people were herded out of the British Isles by the money men of London (and later Wall Street) because it was more profitable to grow sheep!

We are the folk who staffed the Enlightenment,fought wars and built the empire...and were the brains and energ behind the Industrial Revolution.

The Brits are in truth fairly well distributed in the British Isles and we have close relatives right down the western seaboard of Europe ...there`s a Rhonda in Wales and a Ronda in Spain.

How many people know these facts in Britain today? Hardly any...because we have been ethnically cleansed and disappeared largely to conform with a cultural template (and American multiracial/multicultural empire) that is really designed to make social aense of what goes on in the Behemoth and melting pot the USA.

what rubbish music. sounds like someone letting gas off on the loo

DAVE DAVE - FOOL OR KNAVE (#52)

'Girls bullied by their families - taken abroad - married against their will.'

Girls overwhelmed by Mammon's crafted images - in their own uncaring homes - impregnated while drunk.

Thank God Dave is directly related to Solomon. Only a giant of human perception and decisiveness could resolve that one.

WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE AND HE'S BEGINNING TO LOOK WORSE!

IF BRITAIN WERE A MUSLIM COUNTRY

Would alcohol be the national lubricant?

Would posing in a sheet be a matter of debate?

Would pregnancy, willy nilly, be de rigueur?

Would mothering be secondary to Mammoning?

Would politicians take pride in their lying and evasions?

Would the top churchmen have nothing to say worth saying?

Would kids leave school thicker than when they went in?


The only problem is we would still believe a load of mentally enslaving claptrap - although Dawkins would have met a sticky end!

Nuff sed

Already happening here in the UK ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3l4oPXiAw&feature=feedu

#53; without wishing to sound captious, I think you'll find that most of the people cleared from the land were related to those doing the clearing, at least having the same name; i.e. clan chief and clan.

In England, the landowners fenced out the people from land held in common or in tenancy ; vide Captain Swing.

Talking of cultural ties;the first thing people cleared from the Highlands of Scotland did when arriving in Nova Scotia; pledge allegiance to the clan chief who had just horsed them out.

Read John Prebble on this; you'll get really angry.

58 I read Prebble and got angry a long time ago...but now I just content myself with waiting for some justice to be done..and wondering if my people can get away with doing an Israel or an Islam or some other racist/fascist stunt on the soil my ancestors held for millenia!?

So far I am to be fobbed off with queuing up behind the Roma and Kurds for a teaspoon of muscular liberalism !And the benefits of your condescending put downs about MY racial history....which I could never hope to return without being imprisoned for hate crime!

Commodity prices heading for a crash ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osjLSIgNLl8&feature=feedlik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvzWGc28beY&feature=feedlik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noGXJoYxQrM&feature=feedlik

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

if "multi-culturalism has failed", then which particular UK culture is he going to forcibly impose?

Emo? Punk? Sikh? Catholic? Materialism? 'Ignorant Public Schoolboy' subculture?

are we all to ride horses and chase foxes? - Or are we to be the foxes ridden down by Camoron and his hounds?

EVERY culture is multi-cultural, Hell, even every individual has an assortment of different cultures - AND genes!

Camoron: "Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?"


----is he talking about the Tory party here? Talk about "projection"!!


"The Labour MP for Luton South, Gavin Shuker, asked if it was wise for Mr Cameron to make the speech on the same day the English Defence League staged a major protest in his constituency.

The shadow justice secretary was reported as saying Mr Cameron was "writing propaganda material for the EDL"."

indeed. And i'm sure many on this blog have noted that. Only took a few months for this Govt to start playing the Race card. So much for ditching the "nasty party" image - or doesn't that matter now they've been elected?

there was only a thousand edl supporters in Luton today, it looks as though that was because more of their members are in Parliament. I hope some Conservative MPs will speak out against this speech, and what it implies.

i cannot help but think of this song/video, a product of UK multiculturalism, and admired around the world - along with much else of cultural excellence the UK has produced because of our cultural minglings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgB7HP38Hkg

and i'm sure many of us can identify with the message in the video, no matter what shade, or subculture we *choose* to be right now.

this is not a message that a Prime Minister sends to his Nation. He should be ashamed.

**the problems of integrating diverse subcultures pale besides the problems caused by his Govt's cuts and privatisations.**

its just occurred to me!! Perhaps that's WHY he said it??


there ARE problems of integration, - there is also the problem of not living up to our own cultural ideals. We should be working on both, not attempting to stir up yet more hatred against a minority. A minority, btw, that has watched while UK forces were used as mercenaries to attack their co-religionists and fellow human beings in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and Kakistan, and only ONCE made a stupid public display (and that was a small group of imbeciles who had no idea of what being "Muslim" meant), most of the time quietly working to prevent terrorism, and make the occasional appearance on Question Time. Most of the plots against the UK were reported by other UK Muslims, not discovered by our wonderful Police State and its surveillance. Not often reported that fact, is it?

Islam is a minority religion, based upon Judeo-Christianity, and in its central teachings fully conforms with UK law. Few intra-cultural problems are in fact in any way associated with the teachings of Islam - as the Prime Minister is fully aware.

in combination with the tabloid press, and Melanie Philips on Question Time, and the edl march on the same day, some very serious questions have to be asked about the PM's judgement.

#56 barrie: yes to some, no to others.

personally, i like the freedoms of the West, the freedom to wear what we want, the freedom to say what we want, to believe what we want, to listen to the music we want, to party if we feel like it. I like this. I REALLY like this. I think this is a core value of current British, English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish cultures, i think this is a human right that *everyone* can agree with in the UK.

But that IS the definition of multi-culturalism!!!

we need Govt to put limits on exploitation, and the resources to police and give aid to those abused when it is asked for, we need Govt to make State schools so good that parents WANT to send their children there, and kids enjoy it when they go. We need Govt to ensure if we get ill, it is not how much money we have that determines if we get Health care.

we need Govt to ensure roads and forests are maintained, whilst kept in Public ownership. We need Govt to ensure the Banks are run properly, and are accountable. We need Govt to improve the electoral system, so votes correspond to MPs elected. We need Govt to invest in new companies and ventures to provide employment when unemployment is sweeping the economy.

we need a Govt that listens with a heart.

what we DON'T need is a Govt that deliberately stirs up racial hatred, or seeks to tell us how to live every detail of our lives. Ban the Burkha? Force all Muslim people to carry ID cards?

This Govt until very recently was aiding North African dictatorships, who violently suppressed their peoples, often targeting a minority when the social problems became too great.

...so is *nothing* too cynical for them?

"Muscular Liberalism" sounds a great deal like "authoritarianism" to me. "Quantitative Easing", anyone?

#53 wj: "The Brits are in truth fairly well distributed in the British Isles and we have close relatives right down the western seaboard of Europe ...there`s a Rhonda in Wales and a Ronda in Spain.

How many people know these facts in Britain today? Hardly any...because we have been ethnically cleansed and disappeared largely to conform with a cultural template (and American multiracial/multicultural empire) that is really designed to make social aense of what goes on in the Behemoth and melting pot the USA."


and there are Brit genes across the world, there would be a rare county left that didn't have a good spread of Brit genetic inheritance. If you mean "pure-blood", or some over such silliness - there has *never* been a time when individuals were not a mingling of previous groups and generations. We are ALL ultimately "mud-bloods", - no matter how inbred.

if *you* went back in time, to whenever you believe your ancestors were "pure", you would discover trading links, and emigration, and Journies settlers, you would discover a society that in many ways is not too dissimilar to our own. You would probably end up shouting at them to "remain pure", when they would look at you with complete bemusement, like some kid with sun-stroke babbling nonsense.

British genes are spread throughout the World - just as British Culture is. Its a bit silly NOW to be wailing about "pure blood", or "pure culture", and doubly silly when they have NEVER EXISTED IN HISTORY, EVER, ANYWHERE!

we are part of the World, we are mingling with the World, we are making an impact on the World. In the past 60 years, UK Culture has been wildly successful, second only to the US, and in educated places often rated higher. And a great reason for that is the cultural diversity, even the genetic diversity, of post-modern Britain.

My ancestors? I do not care (although it would be interesting), but i *do* know that i enjoy living in this advanced, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural Society, - and that i wouldn't want to live on an authoritarian, totalitarian, mono-culture on ethnically-cleansed reservation-lands.

i think anyone who would would be potty.

DROP THE DEAD DONKEY

I have often railed against a decline in parenting skills. I have frequently questioned school as a 'given good' when it needs must INSTITUTIONALISE those schooled. More and more potential parents now work for Mammon, and schooling starts at 2.

Suddenly it hit me: Parenting EXPERIENCE is being excised from both sides of the contract. The effect is cumulative - a negative feedback 'squared'. Inexorably, ability to raise children is departing, hence 'brought up' adults will cease to exist; indeed, they might already have done so, yielding the lack of competence we now experience everywhere.

But Dave, and Dave-ilk, seem to have no inkling of this corrosion at the heart of Britain. Indeed, he is trying to sell this rotten culture to aliens – saying that ‘Muscular Liberalism', must bring them to its promise.

Big Society? You can't grow BIG anything this way.

Westminster badly needs to swap lawyers and economists for applied philosophers and psychologists. Even then party politics will piss on any green shoots.

Mork...we have to have a national debate without assuming the white British are all too stupid or dangerous to engage in discussion about what I feel is a major and sustained social injustice to us.

I know you live in a multicultural bubble but there`s serious anger developing around you.

I am sick of living in what I seriously believe is a global capitalist police state while being deluged with foreigners.

Surely anyone can see that we are way over the population numbers it`s possible to cope with in a civilised way and yet at NO stage have indigenous people been given any say in this or a whole range of neoliberal and US foreign policies.... which ALL electable political parties keep imposing on us.

It`s UNJUST...it`s SOCIAL MADNESS..and it`s set to cause really unpleasant SOCIAL DISORDER!

Can someone explain to me why the English are not allowed to be English in England?

I find that the Indians are Indian in India, and Africans are African in Africa, and the Chinese are Chinese in China, hadn't noticed any of those countries sporting huge ghettos in their towns of non indigenous people. Why must we?

Multicultutalism has failed so says David Camaron. Has it, has it really!
Well i never saw that coming.

Still no mention about the latest wikileaks revelations: The Obama Admin gave British Nuclear weapon secrets to the Russians.

Since this thread is all about immigration/multicuturalism, I'll end it for you here and know -so you can move on to other juicy matters:

Multiculturalism does not work, never has done and probably never will...its too problematic. The only folk who don't see it that way are Liberals, journalists working for the Govt media complex and other folk living in a bubble.

"Egypt, Bangla Desh, Iran and even Turkey are classed as "Islamic" countries and their cultures are as different as China's and Holland's."

Half right. Cultures in the Mid-East vary between each other, and are more at variance with S.Asian moslem cultures, but are more similar than they are to cultures in Europe, Africa or East Asia. Where would Indonesia, for instance, ally itself if push came to shove, with E.Asia or Arabasia?

The real situation is not multi-culturalism but a global world of multi-civilisationalism. I count 5 that are conceptually coherent entities:

1. communist-orthodox
2. islamic
3. communist-buddhist
4. animist-evangelical
5. humanist-judao-christian

Which civilisations have mineral resources?
which civilisations have agricultural land?
which civilisations have liberal values?
which civilisations have creationist values?
which civilisations have tribal values?
which civilisations have authoritarian values?
which civilisations have mercantile values?
which civilisations have materialist values?
etc.etc.

which ideology, with what resources, will survive and/or expand?

The Penguin Atlas of World History makes fascinating reading - talk about 'same as it ever was...' (and you may find yourself...Zzzzzzzzzz)

65 - this is not the end of multiculturalism, this is the beginning of the two-state solution! The director of Ramadan Foundation said it all when he said to Colin Brazier on Sky that he was sure Colin has moslem friends just as he has English friends. Gulf...yawn...

peace will not come to Abraham's descendants, and gentile followers (or not)thereof, until Jerusalem is conferred with neutral sovereignty, as a World Heritage site, managed by UN peace-keepers.

Ok, that's it mods, I'm off to bed now, just wasn't sure what would be acceptable and what not hence the fragmentation - so fashionable to fragment these days!

#64: yes.


#65 wj,that's truth from your mouth.

"Surely anyone can see that we are way over the population numbers it`s possible to cope with in a civilised way and yet at NO stage have indigenous people been given any say in this or a whole range of neoliberal and US foreign policies.... which ALL electable political parties keep imposing on us."

but! Our population limit is based upon the amount of resources we can call on. If we can grab, or purchase, food from other countries' surpluses, then we can maintain a higher population. Also, if we can gain extra energy, then we can make agriculture or manufacturing, or travel, much more productive.

you understand? The limit of the UK's population is fixed by the resources, not by land-space. Another thing we can do, to either increase population or to make us more secure, is to be more efficient with what we already have.

for instance perma-culture farming, uses advanced methods to avoid the use of pesticides and fertilisers, so it uses far less oil. We also, for instance with forest-farming, get more back per acreage than the current mono-culture farming.

we would become more efficient, and thus have to take less resources from elsewhere. And we could support the population we have now - and more. The population will fall of its own accord though, as women's education means less of them want to be mothers, and have the chance in our advanced Society to pursue other careers. And that goes through the subcultures, unless education is so bad no-one wants to go to the State schools.

if our so-called Ministers are so worried about "Universal British Values", perhaps their time would be better spent on making a basic plank of that a decent Education system, that taught British values by *example*?


"yet at NO stage have indigenous people been given any say in this or a whole range of neoliberal and US foreign policies"


you think i am unaware of that? How much say have we "indigenous people" had over the policies of the "indigent, and indigently elected" Govt? Do you think 'Cameron, Oik and the Wardrobe' are *foreign*? They may act and sound strange, they may have strange beliefs, and they may not have our best interests at heart, but they're *definitely* British.

so "indigenous people have had a complete say in the implementation of these policies", i saw a rare Moslem who spoke up for the invasion of Iraq, although there were a few.

it was Govts *we* elected that [bleeped] us up, it certainly wasn't the small number of english-moslems. In fact, if you think about it, much of the opposition to "neoliberal and US foreign policy" has come from UK Moslems as well.


"Mork...we have to have a national debate without assuming the white British are all too stupid or dangerous to engage in discussion about what I feel is a major and sustained social injustice to us."

i utterly agree.


"I know you live in a multicultural bubble but there`s serious anger developing around you."

i know the anger.


"I am sick of living in what I seriously believe is a global capitalist police state while being deluged with foreigners."

is it the foreigners or the police state that sickens you more?



"It`s UNJUST...it`s SOCIAL MADNESS..and it`s set to cause really unpleasant SOCIAL DISORDER!"

what would targeting this minority achieve? Would it make the banks behave? Would it make more council housing to be built? Would it make you feel good about yourselves?

as much as having a job building decent homes, or improving existing ones? Or a decent income if tere are no jobs? And making sure the Govt provided a decent education for your kids?

this is what Govt can **do**, it is what Govt is for!! If it is not doing these things here in the UK, i do not think it is the Moslems fault.

if you want to do "social-disorder", then do it in the City.


...think.

Mork...I have been listening to your stuff all my life....from one wave of immigrants after another...and once they have ripped us off and become businessmen and landlords and lawyers it all changes and the THEY are moaning about the latest immigrants in their turn....but it`s all cobblers anyway.

All our political and social and economic ideas are blow ins from the USA where they don`t have a welfare state or indigenous people or a lack of space or resources...that`s the true problem...we have been turned into a mini USA without the resources to achieve it properly.

Now ...how many immigrants is too many for you...or shall we have a nice little British genocide to get you off the hook? Or perhaps you could follow many of my kin into exile in America or the deserts of Australia where they went slaving and killing the indigenous folk there?

61 Get Yourself out 2 Afghanistan and Take all your Kit off whilst playing with Heavy Metal, Then Spout/Gob Off in the way that a certain tribe does over here in Luton. IF ? you Survive that have A Butchers and Count Up how many Dogs and Cats You see .. The Best of British 2 U

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

So Looking Forward 2 My Court Case Re LIC Fee, I Shall Be Going ALL The Way Auntie

Is Attack the best Form of Defence mmmmm

Trev Phillips on AM, does he really want 2 fight and win Racistisms

Another high paying Quango Quangoed

Me If I Sit In the Sun Long Enough I go Brown then Black, as any Black as any Black person, If I Sit in The Artick or Antartic I Go White as Snow, If I am Ill I Go Green or Yellow (yellow Juandice as a brat)I Dont Believe in Envy I Don't believe Hate. If I Do A Bit of Straining I Go Red. (I don't get Embarrassed) If I Paint My Face Blue I will be Blue ETC ETC

Just call Me Rainbow Head

73-76

What a terrible shame you can`t run Britain as our very own Papa Duff Duvalier ..duff one...it would be so much fun as we descended into gang warfare and vigilanteism...as the entire world`s poor took a punt at making a grab for the last bit of available social housing in the UK!

A bit like Mad Max meets Haiti...meets Straw Dogs....but without the laughs!

MMMMmmmm Cool! Have you another stressful day of "human right`s activism" before you wonderous one?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"from one wave of immigrants after another...and once they have ripped us off and become businessmen and landlords and lawyers it all changes and THEY are moaning about the latest immigrants in their turn"

...and as they rise into the multiRACIAL upper-middle class (there is only ONE bourgeois culture - conform or you won't get in, remember how quickly moslem lawyers decided to drop the veil in court? they adopt the same classist attitudes; as Trevor Philips has just affirmed on the Marr Show by referring to EDL as street thugs. These are not thugs these are extremely ordinary people with no particular interest in politics but an interest in defending their way of life. There is nothing right wing about the EDL movement it is simply, as presenter after presenter demonstrates with their discourse, that members of the political class do not come up against the practice of multiculturalism.

I work 'in the community' and it is my impression that the St George flags coincide with areas where moslems have extended their houses, sometimes across the end of a street, and walled in their properties. I say that the St George is a defensive reaction and not an aggressive action.

The whole point about the culture of this country is that in post-war Britain the political/professional class created a working class that was submissive - see for instance Talcot Parson's thesis on dependency on the NHS. This situation, a cared-for and reasonably contented working class was what the policy-makers and industrialists wanted.

The working class overstepped the mark in the 70s with a strike too far and the result was Thatcherism followed by Blairism and the influx of millions of people who had grown up in countries with no welfare state and consequently with an attitude to get money by whatever means, and the submissive existing working class, who had bought into the idea that they should just peacefully get on with their lives, and build their own stable communities based on their lower incomes, were just left standing as a far more proactive immigrant group legitimately, and sometimes not so, took their chances in their new country - whilst all the time referring to their 'home countries'. And, I've been in work situations where immigrants explain to non-immigrants what state benefits they could be obtaining but aren't.

People are already talking about market fundamentalism. I would say market extremism. Aggressive capitalism is no respecter of culture. Cultures that are submissive to god but respect the marketplace will do better than cultures that respect god but are submissive in the marketplace.

Armchair general wimpyjim a leftie plant single cell by anti beeb ?

Well Done 2 The Muslim Lady on The Big Q's

I Think She Stuffed the chap with the headress

Wappaho Indian...surely it would have been better for you if Mr Duff and I hadn`t sent our relatives over to enslave and exterminate so many of your people?

And then we compounded it all by getting the American Tribe of Israel to neoliberalise the entire human race with their religion of usury and debt.....it`s all such a mess!

Still ..perhaps it`s time I deserted poor little boring common sense and ascended onto the moral high ground (with you) ...where we can lie back and do the Observer crossword together while swapping deliciously smug and superior anecdotes about horrid British white trash and their spiteful ingratitude towards us?

Well said Peter H. Islam is a political project...and always has been. Imagine what the world was like in 500AD. Christianity had spread East, West and North, and covered a vast area. The Koran purports to be words 'channelled' from a transendentant being. The Bible by contrast is an historical account of cultures living in Mesopotamia and the Levant from 8000BC (Jericho was the first known 'town') to 30AD (the crucifixion was followed by a Jewish uprising, which failed and resulted in the diaspora out of Israel).

[When I say historical text I mean with the proviso that the Bible was written thousands of years after Abraham lived and uses ancient ways of understanding the world (imagery). I suggest that the four rivers of Eden are the Nile, the Tigris&Euphrates, and the Indus - the three sites of early civilisation that we know from archeology and linguistics were in communication with each other.

Meanwhile in the real world....
Hackers break into Nasdaq's computers
https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704709304576124502351634690.html

...and the most irritating radio voice
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/8304155/Who-has-the-most-irritating-radio-voice.html

SaucyJim
When Europeans arrived, the Sioux were well on their way to wiping out the great 'diversity' of tribes as they moved from East to West.

People misunderstand the concept of diversity. Nature only uses diversity in the development stage and then progressively knocks out 'the brands that don't sell'.

I have been on the receiving end of snobbery from my birth family, and inverse snobbery from my marital family, all my life. Snobs are people who skim-read their way through life. Read my post again and take a compliment when it's paid - the moral high ground is depicted in the lower economic strata not the upper, but as for "lie back and do the Observer crossword together while swapping deliciously smug and superior anecdotes" I see no harm in that!

84 Religion of all sorts is authoritarian undemocratic politics dressed up as the word of some ancient deity....and your Old Testament is certainly no exception...as a lot of Palestinans could confirm ...if they had computers.

83 Moral High GroundHOG/Day Not High Enough For Me .. Try H.A.L.O.

Surely Cameron is a racist for criticising the multiculturalism rackets?

Isn`t there a philanthropic human right`s lawyer (like Cherie Blair?) prepared to take the brief for nothing and sue Cameron....or maybe Mr Duff could finance a prosecution from the money he`s saved by not paying his dues to the BBC?

Hey, EcoLizzy (your name could be a new strain of E.coli ZZY - no offense meant) If you wrote a song would it be 'The girls are back on farm' de-diddly-doo? I saw Phil Linnet in a famous shoe shop named after an automaton in the King's Rd in 1980, I've still got the green suede winkle-pickers that I bought).

Did you ever sing this?

We want to live
In a nuke-la free
Society
No plutonium, No plutonium, No plutonium, No plutonium,

It's a very catchy tune even though long ago I decided that the French, with their impeccable je ne sais quoi, were right again. I wrote this for Dave:

We volunteer
To give up our jobs
(We are not snobs)
Big Society, Big Society, Big Society, Big Society,

Who would have thought
We can now work all day
(And get no pay)
Big Society, Big Society, Big Society, Big Society,

"MEANWHILE IN THE REAL WORLD" (#85)

Mistress 76uk - YOU ARE PURE GENIUS.

We simple posters struggle to encapsulate the global malaise and you have done it in 5 words. Have you thought of applying for a job advising Dave?

Nuff sed.

Mean While in The UnReal World ie CyberSpace

FootBallers Hack Journalist Hack Fraudsters Hack I Hack I Gett Hacked

Who Gives Hack about Nasdack

Dont Buy Useless TAT .. easy init

DID THE SIOUX HAVE A HOLY BOOK? (#91)

You were cooking with eco-gas up to #91 Wappaho.

The Ape Confused by language appears to be highly specialised for extreme survival, in small groups. The prevailing clement epoch finds him out of his sustainability-zone. We are now out-clevering ourselves to the point of a cataclysmic auto-cull. (Nothing to do with climate - more akin to the Lemmings.)

Meanwhile, fundamental 'human' imperatives of hierarchy, competitiveness and territoriality, inexorably cause leaders to want to dominate the entire 'known world'. The mismatch is obvious.

That is the tragedy of 'globalism' that no Nick or Dave can comprehend.

MAN IS A MOCKERY

I hear some MP's have mocked on of their number in a wheelchair? Who would have thought that MPs had ANYTHING in common with Jeremy Clarkson?

But on whom to the wheelchair-bound (males) turn their mockery?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0DUsGSMwZY

Dave will have the answer.

OH NO - TONY IS JUST DEFINING 'THE PROBLEM' AGAIN

Quartet Agent Blair is on radio. He only ever defines what we know - never has a solution. Ker-ching.

HAGUE IS NOT VAGUE - BUT PRESUMPTUOUS DOESN'T RHYME!

Billy the Spud has declared that Britain has THE RIGHT to protest to any country over (perceived) oppression and violence.

Why?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Reading all this I am reminded of pretending to be asleep on a Turkish Airlines flight from Istanbul for approx three hours after a well dressed loud English chap tried to convince me that all religion was based on alien visits eg haloes on saints are human attempts to depict the helmets the visitors wore to protect them from Earth's atmosphere.

Captious again but Ur of the Chaldees was the first recognised human township.

Worcesterjim; I have not yet begun to condescend."Racial" history or "racist history"? Are you Jaded?

99 I couldn`t possibly comment kashi...as you are the masters now...and if you feel you haven`t begun to condescend then clearly the word "jaded" hardly begins to describe what I am about to experience!
Talking of Turkish airlines reminds me of a relative`s visit to see the Golden Temple at Armritsar during a little multicultural jamboree which involved people gaily chopping each other to bits in the street as he walked towards the temple.

His airline was unable to respond to his deeply racist and xenophobic desire to return him post haste to his aptly named bungalow in England called Shangri-La...so he went on Aeroflot steerage class with a compulsory stop in Moscow in the early 80`s...you can probably imagine what the flight was like!

Sheep`s eyes with your instant coffee substitute Sir?