Friday 24 September 2010

Wait, wait the real news story about terrorism is from Ahmadinejad and his UN speech. "The US described his remarks as "abhorrent and delusional"" - yet where is the evidence of US official story. If it is so straight forward why can't we ever get a straight answer to a straight question! There are 1300 named, professional, verified architects and engineers (ae911truth.org) saying the three skyscrapers that fell in New York on 9/11 could only have fallen if explosives were used. This drives a stake through the heart of the official story. If they are wrong then Prove It! Just saying its "abhorrent and delusional" gets us nowhere!

24.09.10. Newsnight.







One day away from the great reveal ...

Who’s it gonna be?

Not the ghostbuster(s) certainly!

One thing is pretty certain .... Hum Ho! .... more - of that dreaded word - tokenism. Surely getting on to the ballot sheet was nothing more than blatant PC-ness and, little doubt, that when it comes to shuffling the ‘shadow’ cabinet the ‘reward’ for being such a worthy - and pleasant - adversary will be a place at the ‘top table’ thereby proudly displaying, nay shouting, more “PC-ness” tokenism!

And the ‘victim’ may not - or even choose not to - recognise the ‘victim’ status bestowed upon them!

And, let’s be honest, there may be a lot more ‘victims’ than just one!

Some years ago a Big Con MP - in defensive mode, in the spotlight - claimed that he was elected because his views represented the views of his constituents and not that he was elected to represent the views of the electorate.

Heaven forbid that the ‘top table’ contains anyone whomsoever might hold that opinion!



And .....

A young woman has gone missing in Luton.

She came to this country for an arranged marriage.

She has a very young baby.

She does not speak any English.

The above made C4’s main evening bulletin last night. It did not make the main lunchtime bulletin - nor the Anglia region ‘slot’ - on the BBC today.

Potential crime, child safety issues, health and welfare, immigration matters, editorial policies, time constraints et al ....

If the young woman turns up in, let us say, unpleasant circumstances will the story then be aired on the BBC?

Discuss.


And .....

177 or 180 Quangos .... (Same leaked info .... Different tally ... Hmm!)

Is there any chance that some of those still under review will actually go?

For example ... Those that support the rights of those that were unequal - to those that were ‘equal’ - but are now seemingly more equal than those to which they, the unequal, aspired to being equal to!



And ....

“The UK is an increasingly secular society”

There are 30,000 “faith based” charities in the UK and two thirds of schools are ‘faith based’


Room for some cuts?

Discuss.


And .....

Postponing Council Tax Banding re-evaluation .....

Whom does that benefit the most?

Hmm!

OBAMA FINDS TRUTH 'HATEFUL AND INEXCUSABLE'

I think he will come to regret those words. Meanwhile the greatest threat comes from LIVING WITHIN THE LIE - led by Barack Obama.

https://buildingwhat.org/

Weep World. Yes we can.

I wouldn't bother even giving Kaletsky the time of day.

He's consistently failed with every prediction he's ever made about the economic crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatole_Kaletsky

For example, Kaletsky wrote, "… I am one of the few economic commentators who has consistently made light of the anxieties about a “day of reckoning” for British homeowners and consumers …"[1] Predictions include that "the credit crunch seems to be ending" (June 2008) and that "there will be no US recession" (January 2008). His latest prediction is that in the United Kingdom general election, 2010, the Liberal Democrats may displace the Labour party as the "dominant party of the Left".[2]


The bloke's a fool with an ulteria agenda.

In short, he's another Trotskyite, Libertarian anarchist....and people/companies actually pay him for economic advice...small wonder we're int he state we're in!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/09/23/23m-fraud-to-repay-1-115875-22581506/

Wonder if Sgt Andy Gimza knows about fractional reserve banking, credit default swaps and collateralize debt obligations ?


Wanna make a name for yourself Sgt Gimza check it out ?

----------------------

"you will be able to taste her innocence"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac1GR0lO3hg

SUSAN WATTS SHOULD CONTACT ALL THE AMERICAN 'FOR TRUTH' GROUPS; DIGEST AND REPORT. (#1)

Remember Sir Humphrey said things denied thrice, in politics, are true? Well Obama has denied 9/11 at least three times. A few emails from Susan Watts to America, will give her a dossier far more reliable than anything dreamed up by New Labour.

9/11 WAS DEMOLITION - ALL THREE TOWERS. The official investigation did not lie - IT DID NOT INVESTIGATE THE ACTUAL COLLAPSES - AT ALL!

Susan: Gravity just does not have the ability to do what was done on 9/11. Time to join the winning team.

Newsnight: why lag behind the curve? Those who have eyes to see and minds to analyse KNOW 9/11 was DEMOLITION. Are you still scared Alastair will come round shouting? As Mandy would say - "Diddums".

SUSAN WATTS SHOULD CONTACT ALL THE AMERICAN 'FOR TRUTH' GROUPS; DIGEST AND REPORT. (#1)

Remember Sir Humphrey said things denied thrice, in politics, are true? Well Obama has denied 9/11 at least three times. A few emails from Susan Watts to America, will give her a dossier far more reliable than anything dreamed up by New Labour.

9/11 WAS DEMOLITION - ALL THREE TOWERS. The official investigation did not lie - IT DID NOT INVESTIGATE THE ACTUAL COLLAPSES - AT ALL!

Susan: Gravity just does not have the ability to do what was done on 9/11. Time to join the winning team.

Newsnight: why lag behind the curve? Those who have eyes to see and minds to analyse KNOW 9/11 was DEMOLITION. Are you still scared Mr Angry will come round shouting? As Mandy would say - "Diddums".

'CNN and NBC Heads Roll' -

https://www.chandlerswatch.com/2010/09/24/shake-up-in-the-clueless-msm-cnn-and-nbc-heads-roll/

everyone's gonna be in the snotty ash soon

using the same logic for irish terrorism as the govt do for islamic terrorism will we now invade Ireland to remove the 'terror training camps' from their safe haven to make the uk 'safe'? Then place sanctions on the usa where the funding comes from? Thought not. because it is stupid.

I'M MORE AFRAID OF WESTMINSTER 'DEMOCRACY'. (#9)

When Dave fully grasps his feudal right in that firm baby-holding grip, and takes Emergency Powers, declaring 'They are coming' (the old: 'I have intelligence that I can't reveal', ploy) THEN we should be afraid - VERY AFRAID.

What is the point of entertaining any idea of an alternative to capitalism?

Also, if the BBC has to give succour to those in favour of alternatives - nutters, to most people - does it have to be in conjunction with the promotion of a Hollywood blockbuster?

#11

Not so much 'an alternative' as a reigning in and redirecting its power to amore positive end is the way i see it.

It has, broadly speaking, become counter productive in its current form, Vince went to some lengths I think to effectively say something similar, but there are many out there who would wish to protect in its entirity, warts and all, the existing version of capitalism hence Vince and others are often actively portrayed as 'nutters' when they are nothing of the sort, they merely seek to offer up an upgrade to capitalism.

For me the key to unlocking that upgrade is to use the technology we have developed through capitalim to build a sustainable base line infrastructure. Once we have done that we can trade the rest as we do now.

Does that seem reasonable 'strugglingtostaycalm', i would genuinly be interested in counter arguments to the position i have breifly ofeered above.

#1

Sorry that is pants, as an engineer myself 'progressive collapse' is a known phenomenon well before 9/11. The explanation for the progressive collapse is both logical and coherent.

Heat from burning floors weakened the structural steel supporting the building above 20 or so floors below the roof, when the weight above was too great for the weakened steel it failed. As it failed its vertical momentum under gravity would be experienced by the building as a huge additional vertical load. This, in turn would overstress the structural members below leading to a further failure which gathered momentum as it progressed downwards.

The building's sprinkler system could not cope with the extent of the fire, such a catastrophe was never envisaged in its design and fire safety systems, which are (in part) there to maintain the structural integrity of abuilding in fire conditions as well as to save lives directly. It is also likely that the plane impact itself caused some structural damage also contributing to the collapse, but the fire in itself, untamed by the buildings sprinklers, would have still done enough in itself probably.

I am a bit of a sucker for a conspiracy theory as a rule, especially the Dr david Kelley affair... but not this one I am afraid.

NN is very 'educational' after watching it you shake your head and say...'well, that's taught me a lesson.. (Ken Dodd circa 1955)

"The threat level to Great Britain from Irish-related terrorism has been raised from moderate to substantial."

That's because the USA is exporting Irish Republican terrorism according to the CIA-

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/CIA_Red_Cell_Memorandum_on_United_States_%22exporting_terrorism%22,_2_Feb_2010

"9. At 8:19pm on 24 Sep 2010, jauntycyclist wrote:
using the same logic for irish terrorism as the govt do for islamic terrorism will we now invade Ireland to remove the 'terror training camps' from their safe haven to make the uk 'safe'?"

More practically, what policies have changed now that the Conservatives are back in power which account for an increased threat from the RIRA?
Under New Labour, we were headed in to the EU as a group of disunited kingdoms. The Conservatives are ostensibly anti Europe. Is that it? Is the disunity of the UK as RDAs now off the agenda (and with that, the promise of a unified Ireland)?


The Miliband subterfuge last night was to play on the nature of the Labour Party. The Old Labour party was essentially Stalinist in structure and policies whilst New Labour was Trotskyite (anarchistic or in today's language, Libertarian). Jewish socialists tend to be Trotskyites (Libertarians) and despise Stalinists (statists) because Stalin threw them out of the USSR in the late 20s and 30s saying they were just closet capitalists.

So, it's really little surprise to see that the young Milibands played a hand in the creation and running of New Labour (which to many appeared no different form the Conservative Party which is also anti-state) and had front-men at the top just as in the USA. IMG stands for International Marxist Group and as that faded, the Socialist International took over with essentially capitalist policies. What makeover artistes.

"13. At 10:05pm on 24 Sep 2010, Jericoa wrote:
#1

Sorry that is pants, as an engineer myself 'progressive collapse' is a known phenomenon well before 9/11. The explanation for the progressive collapse is both logical and coherent."

The slightly odd thing is that the dissenting Civil engineers (including Ahmadinejad who no doubt sought some advice from his Chinese and Russian allies before opening his mouth in NY yesterday) knew about the "Pancake Theory" etc, but dismissed the NIST Report as not providing a credible explanation for the conditions leading to the collapse, and even NIST could not simulate the preconditions in terms of heat required to weaken the steel. That's presumably what Ahmadinejad was referring to? Still, why should anyone bother to look up and listen to the likes of a Labour Cabinet Minister Michael Meacher? After all, what on earth (or in the Middle East) did the people behind Bush and Blair have to gain?

Here you go engineer Jericoa, a real life conspiracy theorist who's on the record elsewhere saying "conspiracies DO happen" and much more besides - search youtube and The Guardian for his conspiratorial thoughts on 9/11. More recently he said:

"Labour won in 1997, not because of Blair or New Labour mantra, but because the electorate was heartily sick of the Tories and wanted them
out at any price. John Smith would have won by a huge margin too.

But having won in 1997 on the back of virulent hostility to the Tories, Blair in two further elections then achieved the biggest loss of voters of any party in modern times."

Michael Meacher
3 September 2010
Tribune
https://www.tribunemagazine.co.uk/2010/09/the-pot-is-calling-the-kettle-black/

I suspect he may be one of those Old Labour types, i.e. one of those unreformed Stalinists which the USA freedom-fighters don't much like.

Lovely to see Stephanie presenting tonight :o)

Ken Dodd isn't even funny! His joke with Stephen was completely FLAT. If you want to interview comedians, why not interview someone who actually is funny - like Simon Bird or James Corden? :p

STILL A MANIFEST SUCKER FOR 'CONSPIRACY THEORY' JERICOA (#13)

But, as i see it, you have been suckered by the primary conspirators in this case.

Taking your accepted position: three buildings of two heights and two constructions, suffered three different, asymmetric assaults. They all fell straight down exhibiting two very different modes of collapse: 'integrated' and 'progressive disintegration'. All three fell under gravity from the effects of fire on the structure. None buckled or toppled. None was incompletely destroyed. Fire has never before, or since, collapsed a steel frame building.

The Kelly Enquiry constrained itself - as did the NIST enquiry. Because NIST chose not to look at the MANNER OF FALLING, the above incongruities were of no account. Let's not forget the Lockerbie trial and all the other 'enquiries'. There is a pattern in high places.

I reckon the truth will out before long, but no one will be brought to any sort of justice. The big guys don't have to do justice.

https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100055264/us-republicans-v-eu-enviro-nazis-this-should-be-fun/

#13 and #17

Interesting posts.

I can give a mechanical engineering perspective.

Here is an intersting finite element analysis of the impact of an aircraft into one of the world trade centres.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH02Eh44yUg&feature=related

I have enough experience of finite element analysis to believe that the analysis is a fair and accurate representation.

Unfortunately...it does not give a difinitive conclusion. But my gut feeling is, it could have caused (as Jericoa states) a building collapse.

All of this, of course, does in no way explain the collapse of
building 7.

If I had to buy a second hand car from either President Ahmadinejad or President George Bush (the shorter)....I'd buy one from Ahmadinejad

A question... Are the floors in modern skyscrapers made of wood? I would have thought they would be concrete, but I'm no construction engineer!

an excellent piece by Stephen Smith with Ken Dodd and very funny with a sharp insight as to why TV comedy is failing us so much as is the Simon Cowell form of ritual humiliation disguised as 'entertainment' as Ken Dodd aluded to, amateur and so called 'semi professionals' will never be able to compete with real artistes, they are skivvies wishing that they possessed real' talent and exploited mercilessly by people who should know better. Ken Dodd made the Queen Mother laugh so much she had to stop watching him as it was a health hazard, now how many so called comics can you say that about today? He was the longest running performer at the London Palladium and is still pacing them in up and down the country. Peter Cook was a genuis but on a different level and to a more basic comedy genre Ken Dodd is up there amongst the best....

Me and Armadinnerjacket singing from the same song sheet..who would have thunk it. What follows his UN speech is gonna be that long planned for war..watch this space.

Mistress, don't judge a comic from one interview and one poor joke. The Dodd is a master of his craft. And as for James Cordon, I've met funnier folk at the AA meeting.

Grass roots democracy (true socialism in Tariq Ali's IMG language, but David Miliband said the same a few years back - see Sarah Teather in the Guardian) means putting a supermarket city on everyone's doorstep, It will mean Britons not being a nation of shop-keepers anymore, but a nation of shoppers benefiting supermarket shareholders. Tell me how it isn't so Tariq and friends. I reckon your nemesis Stalin and friends saw through this subterfuge back in the 1920s, hence the purges - as it's no more than non-state controlled monopolies being put into the hands of the select few who buy up all the shares, as has clearly become the case in the last 30 years or so. Same happened in the depressed USA as it did in Germany. We need to learn from history, not repeat its errors.

#19

It seems very likely to me, singie, that the truth will out soon. Alas, I suspect that it was a few English 'guys' who had something to do with 9/11. Just look at some of the posts above. The NN bloggers are planning a third world war, claiming to be connected to the Russians, the Chinese and the President Ahmadinejad, some of which may be sadly true.

mim

#26 addendum

And to think it may 'all' be with attention seeking in reverse order though.

Monika

Here's some worrying figures

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8021327/Britain-least-self-sufficient-in-food-since-1968.html

"18. At 11:23pm on 24 Sep 2010, Mistress76uk wrote:

Ken Dodd isn't even funny! His joke with Stephen was completely FLAT. If you want to interview comedians, why not interview someone who actually is funny - like Simon Bird or James Corden? :p"

Perhaps you meant to write "Ken Dodd isn't even funny TO ME! His joke with Stephen was completely FLAT I THOUGHT. If you want to interview comedians, why not interview someone who I THINK actually is funny - like Simon Bird or James Corden? :p"

See what I mean? You seem to look at everything from just your own (dare I say it self-centred?) point of view. Others may watch the programme and think that there are older people watching the programme too, people who remember Ken Dodd from years back when humour wasn't subversive, nasty and cruel,.and who think he deserves a tribute. Don't they deserve some TV too? Some get enjoyment from thinking about other people being entertained/considered. Life is complicated for grown ups, grown olders.

They'd probably think Simon Bird and James Corden offensive, odd, subversive etc. The sort of people who think it funny that bankers rip off grannies etc. Can you imagine it? How about a bit of 'satire' from Stephen Fry? The problem is, those people who laughed back in the 80s turned into predators and narcissists didn't they? Why?

Current presenters - its no joke

Not bad Stephanie, its about what one would expect for a first outing on NN. When presenting to camera as a correspondent or editor moving the head, hands and walking is absolutely fine but when your in charge its important to keep still. This is difficult to do - its nerve racking. Emily cradles the script to keep them still, Paxo locks his fingers together, Kirsty holds her hands to her side and then only moves them slightly with the first expressive words - its a text book example in how to do it. All budding NN presenters should watch her.

For me the most budding is Jo Coburn - authoritative voice; well boned up on the naughty boys at Westminster and their inveigling ways. Remember her grilling MP's in the house of commons - she did a good womanly miss whiplash. Ive had my eye on her abilities ever since.

"what do you think of current comedians"
"currants shouldn't joke"

for me

that's funny

DO NATIONS HAVE A MENTALITY - HENCE MENTAL ABERRATION? (#28)

Hi Lizzy. I wonder if Britain moulded a new self-image in the days of gunboats and colonies AND IS STILL LOCKED IN? We do seem to feel we are striding the world Colossus-like, yet need good eyesight to find on the globe, have destabilised a fair part of it, and make much of our imaginary money with smoke and mirrors. Spiv Britain?

You have set me thinking - we are certainly, nationally delusional, and probably going mad. It would explain a lot.

FAIR ANALYSIS? (#21 link)

I claim no engineering skill.

As the YouTube presentation progressed, I was struck by the amount of time spent explaining WHY it is SO valid - like an advertisement for the technology, and technicians who produced it. I watched - and waited - to see a PLAN VIEW of the damage ILLUSTRATING THE DEGREE OF ASYMMETRY of the damage, that would tend towards kinking and toppling. I might have nodded off, but don't remember that VITAL factor being represented. I did not register which tower was shown, but it looked like the MORE SYMMETRICAL of the two strikes. I shall watch it again.

I was unaware of that site DJ - genuine thanks.

James Rickards talks about the US mortgage scandal (important) :-

https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/9/25_Jim_Rickards__Part_II.html

Hey James maybe the Jerome Daly is also relevant ? :-

"Because the decision was nullified, the case has no value as precedent. However, it is still cited by groups who support a government owned central bank or oppose the Federal Reserve System"

https://yajnacentre.blogspot.com/2009/07/court-rules-fractional-reserve-banking.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Bank_of_Montgomery_vs_Jerome_Daly

WELL - WAD'YA KNOW! (#21 kink and #33)

The YouTube presentation was supported by the NSF - now read on:

"The National Science Foundation (NSF) is an independent federal agency created by Congress in 1950 "to promote the progress of science; to advance the national health, prosperity, and welfare; to secure the national defense…" With an annual budget of about $6.9 billion (FY 2010), we are the funding source for approximately 20 percent of all federally supported basic research conducted by America's colleges and universities. In many fields such as mathematics, computer science and the social sciences, NSF is the major source of federal backing."

Thank goodness for 'independence' in crime investigation.

@13 Hi Jericoa

Jericoa wrote: "#1 Sorry that is pants"

Sorry again Jericoa but what I said is that 1300+ named and verified architects and engineers question the official account. That is not "pants" - that is fact! What they say may be pants to you, Mr No-Name-BBC-Blogger claiming to be an engineer, but that is not my point. My point is that 1300+ named, professional have raised some questions. Pretty good ones too.

I notice that in your regurgitation of the official conspiracy story that you didn't mention WTC Building 7. Yep a common fault. There was a third "miraculous and unique" collapse that day of akyscraper due to fire. Never happened before or since. But on 9/11 apparently three (four if you include the financial audit computers at the Pentagon) multi-trillion dollar assets were destroyed in very strange circumstances. Just using Motive, Means and Opportunity as your guiding principle - you see that many questions need to asked - questions currently without answers.

And obviously you are not even asking those questions yet.

PAY DIRT (#21 #33 #35)

As suspected: The high tech You Tube analysis - LACKING A PLAN VIEW OF SIMULATED DAMAGE - was of the North Tower. THAT WAS THE MORE SYMMETRICAL STRIKE of the two. Now why would they choose that one?

Where can I find a FAIR ANALYSIS of the ASSYMETRICAL (across a corner) South Tower strike? And will it include A PLAN VIEW OF THE PURPORTED CORE DAMAGE? Ah - thought not.

North and South towers FELL IN A NEAR-IDENTICAL MANNER. Now why might that be? Was some OVERRIDING ENERGY beyond plane strikes, SO GREAT that it nullified the difference between the two?

Perhaps Good Guy Obama might orate a few words to clear this up?

Yeah - right.

#28 lizzy
“The public wants to eat a wide range of vegetables, be it kale or squash, and they now know how to cook it. Farmers can grow this stuff. Gardeners are showing the way. The lesson of the allotments needs to rolled out to horticulture” Prof Lang Head of Food Policy at City University.

We don’t have to be slaves to supermarkets profiting from imported food. We should return to nature and wartime practice which produced healthy, non-obese citizens. For the last 6 months or more we have lived off organic home-grown fruit and veg and frozen the surplus. Third world markets have many different green leafs on sale beside their veggies, and as my rabbits prefer green bean leaves above all else I tried them: delicious. We now cook and freeze most green tops (avoid rhubarb leaves).

@ Tabblenabble #29 - :p I'm not alone in finding Ken Dodd not funny
https://www.metro.co.uk/news/655952-ken-dodd-show-dropped-for-not-being-funny

"the government just seized three wholesale credit unions and has launched an "unusual plan" to manage $50 billion of troubled assets inherited from failed institutions."

https://www.zerohedge.com/article/three-wholesale-credit-unions-nationalized-us-securitizes-50-billion-legacy-toxic-assets-fai

:o( Not great news
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8021327/Britain-least-self-sufficient-in-food-since-1968.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LMQjJYGuMg&feature=player_embedded#!

#33

Barry the mode of collapse requires it to be pulled back towards the vertical for a progressive collapse scenario to work, it is driven by gravity, if the building had 'toppled' the progressuive collapse mechanism would have halted at the point of toppling.

I understand the mechanism being possible without explosives being used at strategic points in the structure.

in order to get a progressive collapse to happen as it did 'by design' you would need progressive charges to be fixed at very regular intervals and strategic points in the structure, no demolision engineer would rely on gravity alone to collapse the building within avery small space.

such timed charges would, as an absolute minimum, have left an audible detonation sequence, not to mention the logistics of installing them throughout a major structure without anyone noticing!!

I dont know about building 7 but will look into it.

I really dont believe that conspirators would have the required expertise or be anywhere near experienced enough for some hawk to sign off on it. Such demolision processes are highly specialised, not the sort of thing you can get from reading a book and sending afew navy seals in to place demolision charges in all the correct structural points.... c'mon guys !!

Ellen Brown fingers credit default swaps and the ratings agencies -

"The Basel II rules base a bank's capital requirement on how risky its loan book is, and banks can make their books look less risky by buying unregulated "insurance contracts" known as credit default swaps (CDS). This insurance, however, proved to be what was effectively a fraud, when insurer AIG went bankrupt on September 15, 2008."

"deposits" proved not to be "triple A" as represented."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/why-basel-iii-will-fail-t_b_736903.html

THE JURY IS NOT EVEN OUT - THERE HAS BEEN NO ENQUIRY. (#43)

Thanks Jericoa. Regret my intellect unable to link your paragraphs into a coherent whole. I shall just have to wait. AE for 9/11 Truth should nail it - in the end.

Anyone following all this might like to see what asymmetrical damage plus gravity can do:

https://911physicstruth.wetpaint.com/page/Collapse+Follows+Path+of+Least+Resistance

#43 addendum

In contrast to #43, in terms of credible conspiracies, the 'weapons of mass destruction' premise for the Iraq war and that leading to a political murder, well that I can and do believe, it is relatively easy to manipulate documents and opinion within government to sanction a war and fake a suicide of a whistle blower.

Organising a highly specialised team to rig the destruction by progressive collapse of the twin towers and to do all that in total secrecy and with the compliance of the numerous specialisms it would need to pull that together in the knowledge that 1,000 plus civilians would die... i just dont see it.

Isnt the jumped up premise invented to justify the iraq war bad enough, you dont even need a 'twin towers' conspiracy theory to clearly show what was going on behind the scenes, if anything, refering to it only takes credibility away from the more likely situation as I described above, so in pursuing it you are probably doing your greater cause (which i agree with) no good at all.

21. At 11:50pm on 24 Sep 2010, DebtJuggler wrote:

I have enough experience of finite element analysis to believe that the analysis is a fair and accurate representation.

Unfortunately...it does not give a difinitive conclusion. But my gut feeling is, it could have caused (as Jericoa states) a building collapse"

And of course you may be correct, as may Jericoa, but apart from this:

https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

as you know, one can fit a computer model to just about anything, what matters is whether the parameters fit the real world. Second, looking at the evidence, crucial evidence required for a full forensic analysis was soon made not available, most of the metal was shipped abroad very quickly. There are all sorts of good reasons why the authorities may have done what they did, many of which would have been to minimize the disadvantage to the USA. That's the job of a government after all.

Ahmadinejad raised three possibilities and offered to hold a conference in Iran, just as he did over the Holocaust a few years ago. Clearly this was designed to infuriate, which is why some walked out.

Let me spell out a positive WHAT IF just for heuristic purposes. I am not for a second suggesting that this is what actually happened, but I think the good use of counterfactuals is that they can make one think rationally and not just go down negative conspiratorial alleys.

Say a rapid structural assessment was made shortly after the attacks and FEMA engineers told decision makers that there was a high probability that some of the upper floors might topple onto surrounding buildings.

What if they also said that at some point, the building would have to be demolished anyway as they would no longer be structurally sound. What if the choice was between two bad options a) parts of the structure toppling imminently and causing more random adjacent damage and b) controlled demolishing the buildings onto their own footprints to prevent a)? What if there was a limited time window? The authorities may have decided to go with the advice to demolish but not want to announce this for all sorts of good PR, economic humane and political reasons, not to mention the sacrifice of the people trapped in the upper floors. Clearly what I'm saying here, is that there is a conceivable scenario where controlled demolition would have been a rational act, ceteris paribus.

@ Tabblenabble #29 - :p I'm not alone in finding Ken Dodd not funny"

I didn't say yours was the only self-centred behaviour in Britain. What I was highlighting was that your posts are invariably myopically self-centred (i.e. through omission) and celebrity obsessed.

This, I have suggested, is endemic, and if you give that just a little objective thought you may begin to see how en masse that reflects a major social and economic problem. You may not like to give that much time as it will be unpleasant, but that avoidance itself, I suggest, is why we are in such trouble. Humour is fashionable and says something about the health of a culture. Since the mid 60s ours has been getting more self-destructive and comedy has reflected that - look closely at who is being pilloried though, very closely!

Who is excluded form ridicule? Why do you think so many comedians have affective/personality/identity disorders? I think you would be shocked to fully see what I am suggesting must change if things are not to get much much worse for the majority, and for that to happen, they will have to stop finding some things funny, and start to see some people as just plain evil/cruel/self-interested!.

Alex Jones on 9/11

Now Mr Jones can go off on a few crazy rants if you listen to his radio show I'm not keen on him but Webster Tarpley is a serious analyst :-

https://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/193155-1

Now we are seeing main-media talk on Pakistan, Iran, IRA - its mind preparing people for war to deal with the monumental financial disasters of the said people who are beating the war drum. The past informs the future - the difference is the internet.

Well done Steffi. So nice to have a presenter who has the hinterland to ask intelligent questions and who understands the responses. What a relief from the cackling kirsty. More Steffi!

Dod can't get on TV because producers fashion is for segmentation not family audiences. Unless a comic is a socialist or vulgar they think its not comedy. How many swear words and politics is there in the nation's favourite sketch '4 Candles'? None. In the same way how much sex and violence is there is Casablanca yet its still up there in the top 5. Or Brideshead?

Great art appeals to everyone because it has the greatest good. Segmentation is the word they came up with to hide the failure in their art and its lack of good.

Just to say that I've just watched Stephen Smith's interviewing Ken Dodd who likes making people happy rather than miserable and I thoroughly enjoyed it. When I have time, I shall try and find out whether any clips of his performances are available on utube.

mim

Mim, Ken Dodd sucks!
Sme of his jokes:
Dodd's routine: Seven jokes in one minute

"Why did the blonde stare at the bottle of orange juice for two hours? Because the label said concentrate."

"Fellas, why don't you go home tonight, grab a handful of ice, throw it down the missus's top and say 'How about that for a new chest freezer?' "

"I've done some brave things in my time. I played Nottingham Labour Club. I was the one who shouted 'Three cheers for Mrs Thatcher'. And it was during the bingo."

"Do great comedians come in cycles? Yes, some do, but others prefer to walk to work.

"I've seen a topless lady ventriloquist. No one has ever seen her lips move."

"I wouldn't part with my teeth. I'm the only patient who can sit in the dentist's waiting room and have his teeth checked at the surgery at the same time."

"I told the Inland Revenue I didn't owe them a penny because I lived near the seaside."

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/comedy/features/ken-dodd-tears-of-a-clown-who-ran-out-of-laughs-1685719.html

52

calm down xena :)

@46, Hi Jericoa

You wrote "Organising a highly specialised team to rig the destruction by progressive collapse of the twin towers and to do all that in total secrecy and with the compliance of the numerous specialisms it would need to pull that together in the knowledge that 1,000 plus civilians would die... i just dont see it."

I know! That's just it. I didn't believe it either until I started just checking some of the outrageous claims! It would have to be an inside job if proven true. Look up WTC7; look up who ran the security of the buildings; find out about the power-downs; the organizations affected by the attack and where their CEOs were that day. Compare this event to the Anthrax attacks that immediately followed and was traced back to military weaponised anthrax from US military labs and what has happened since. Where were the USAF fighters that day?

Most of all check out the 9/11 Families own view of what happened in "9/11 Press for Truth"

Then come back and say there is "nothing there"! I wouldn't want to waste your time with this unless it was rather important.

AND HE MADE THE QUEEN LAUGH (#52)

Those who remember how the royals loved the Crazy Gang will know that is not a badge of excellence! (:o)

I think Kaletsky has made a category mistake in his arrival at 4.0. I'm not sure, however, how much of his project it invalidates.

Read this and let me know what you think:
https://persistentstruggle.blogspot.com/2010/09/capitalism-40.html

Talking of celebrities /and yes some of them I either love, or appreciate or purely and simply value their work. And wouldn't Michaelangelo or better still a man of many talents, Leonardo da Vinci, wouldn't be the so-called celebs in this day and age? Would it have been the reason to dislike them? For making it into the public domain and becoming part of the widespread human psyche?/:

Ed Vayzei, the current Minister for Culture together with James Cameron on the list of the most influential people in Hollywood:

https://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/w0006620.html

Mistress76uk

I've now watched a few clips on utube of Ken Dood performing in front a very happy to be there audience with the comedian singing, while mucking about, to all kinds of tunes, including some of the most famous 'romantic' opera arias. He made me sing /however imperfectly/ with him and I haven't laughed for such a prolonged period of time for a long time. He's even had me in tears, laughing tears that is.

Reading about the beginning of his career has also made me laugh:

'He then attended Holt High School, a Grammar School in Childwall, but left at age fourteen to work for his father.[3] Around this time he became interested in showbusiness after seeing an advert in a comic entitled; "Fool Your Teachers, Amaze Your Friends — Send 6d in Stamps and Become a Ventriloquist!" and sending off for the book. Not long after, his father bought him a ventriloquist's dummy and Ken called it Charlie Brown. He started entertaining at the local orphanage, then at various other local community functions.'

mim

#58 addendum

Mistress76uk

You quote a joke about teeth - "I wouldn't part with my teeth. I'm the only patient who can sit in the dentist's waiting room and have his teeth checked at the surgery at the same time."

One of the things I like about Ken is that he does not, or has learned not to, take himself too seriously and often pokes fun at himself or his own looks. But I do not think he's all about making people happy through laughter. I detect warmth, love and care in what he does on stage which I do think is rare, though not totally uncommon in celebrities. I could quote a few straight away, and not just from the UK but shall leave this out for the moment.

mim

#59 addendum

I like so much the way Ken Dodd interprets songs that I've even recorded some onto my iTunes and have requested a disc from Amazon which includes his hits like 'Happiness' and 'Tears'.

Thank you Mr Dodd - perhaps I could ask Mr Stephen Smith to pass on the message from me. Thanks.

Monika

mimpromtu has done her homework on Doddy...I am a muso and backed Ken many times in the sixties and seventies, one running gag we had was when in rehearsal he would say there was a drink left for us (piano, bass and drums) and we would go into the dressing room to find a pot of tea and three cups, we found him one of the most generous guys ever to work with and his reputation as one of this country's best comedians was well merited.....Tommy Cooper would reward a cabbie with a 'drink' He would slip a tea bag into the cabbie's top pocket and the guy would think it was a fiver and he would depart with the word's 'have a drink on me'....

#60 update

I'm now listening to Mr Ken Dodd singing and am happy to discover that he does have a wonderful voice and am thrilled by having downloaded his songs into my iPod.

mim

The ace up Ed's sleeve was always the fact that he was by far the most effective ( not quite so Corporate Nazi ) stop David candidate, when in retrospect Andy Burnham would have made the best leader to win the next election in 2015.

LIMITED ED - 'ANOTHER ONE' IN WAITING

Remember 'Eugene Quills'? "He has never had a lesson in his life."

Ed is YET ANOTHER of the PPE set (with a dream topping of even more Economics). Now there's a guy to empathise with the disenfranchised.

If Ed is as good at playing leader, as Eugene was at the piano, we are in for more discord.

I read he was a speech-writer. Now, one supposes, having put words in other's mouths, he will speak the words of others! That seems to sum up Westminster politics: nothing is ever quite what it seems.

Ed for the hills.

It's only an impression but I think that of the two brothers Ed is a more balanced and hopefully considerate kind of chap although he does have a lot to answer for for the mess, and not only financially, the U K is currently in.

mim

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"63. At 6:59pm on 25 Sep 2010, brossen99 wrote:
The ace up Ed's sleeve was always the fact that he was by far the most effective ( not quite so Corporate Nazi ) stop David candidate, when in retrospect Andy Burnham would have made the best leader to win the next election in 2015."

Agreed, but I reckon the only possible hope for Old Labour (really Chinese and closet Russian state socialism) would be to weaken the hold which Wall Street's tentacles have had over the USA for a century and this much of the rest of the world. I reckon that's what the real global geo-political battle continues to be, but I fear most people across the liberal-democracies don't see how they're playing a hand in their own demise. Until that changes don't expect much to get better. Andy Burnham would not have fared much better than Michael Foot or anyone else of that ilk.

I certainly don't trust the Milibands. See earlier post on us just becoming minority shoppers amongst more imported shoppers from Third World countries.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/may/05/urban-development-tesco-towns

Big Ed - Leader by a dubious head?

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11412031

Although the Labour Leadership electoral system was complicated by the power of three sections: MPs and MEPs, trade unions and ordinary party members, the principle requirements (for a candidate to achieve 50% of the votes, with progressive elimination and re-allocation of the votes of other candidates) are similar to those under the proposed change to AV for the next General Election, subject of course to protest and a possible referendum.

Under that system it took 4 rounds in which David Milliband got most votes 3 times and finally lost by a very narrow margin. One has to wonder whether the re-allocation of the votes of ‘losing’ candidates should be considered with equal weight.

My earlier proposal (9th May blog) for all voters to have (say) 10 points to allocate between candidates in any weighting they choose, seems to me to be a fairer system of avoiding the wasted vote syndrome, which is probably responsible for much of the voter apathy and low turnout, whilst giving a more accurate and proportional representation than re-allocation of losing votes.

All those in favour say ‘Aye’ (or better still say ‘10 out of 10’)

IN BRITAIN THERE ARE ALWAYS TWO OPTIONS (#68)

You have a pragmatic, workable idea that will get nowhere.

Or your idea is no improvement and stands a good chance.

I have set up a committee and cannot comment.

NO ED - WRONG WRONG WRONG! YOU LOST DUE TO HAVING DELUSIONAL LEADERS.

Ed has started on a lie - exactly what Blair and Brown ended on.

Ed is a product of Westminster party politics, as were Blair and Brown.
I doubt he 'gets' the implication of that - Westminster politicians can't think that way. Only a duplicitous politician could praise the previous leaders, while saying they got it all wrong.

It seems inescapable that Labour have GOT THEMSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

Ed won over his brother David....
Certainly worth a watch :o)
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/miliband-of-brothers/4od

Apparently Ed has announced that one of his concerns is the 'squeezed middle classes'. May I ask what kind of 'labour socialist' he is that does not seem to speak for the poorest and the workers first. In my opinion he hhould concern himself with the whole of the society and what's good for the country. What does 'squeezed' mean here anyway.

Monika

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Those in "democratic power" are theirs for show. The whole structure is a sham; an extension of the upper middle class façade at a tea party for "friends family and colleagues" while the 'gone wrong uns' are locked away from view - upstairs to keep up 'appearances'.

The reality: who ever is prime minister is beholden to much more powerful forces. They enforce the feudal state. This is breaking down because they cant extract any more from the delusion. Blame must be transferred. Horrendous debts must be socialised. War must be sought. The target is locked away upstairs - 'the gone wrong uns' shouting -

There can be no trust with fractional reserve banking.

There can be no trust with credit default swaps and collateralised debt obligations.

There can be no trust with banks that are to big to fail.

There can be no trust with naked short selling.

There can be no trust with high frequency trading.

There can be no trust with money as debt.

There can be no trust with credit ratings agencies that lie.

There can be no trust in politics and media beholden to elite powers.

All you have to do is know if any of these will be kept in place to know the fraud and pain that will be inflicted upon the public.

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

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The legacy of Larry Summers - superstar economist by Arianna

"As Treasury Secretary under Clinton, Summers played an important role in convincing Congress in 1999 to pass the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed key portions of the Glass-Steagall Act and allowed commercial banks to get into the mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations game. The measure also created an oversight disaster, with supervision of banking conglomerates split among a host of different government agencies -- agencies that often failed to let each other know what they were doing and what they were uncovering. "


"Summers also backed Phil Gramm's other financial time bomb, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which allowed financial derivatives to be traded without any oversight or regulation. So it was on his watch that the credit-default swaps warhead that has blown up our economy was launched."

"In a speech at the Kennedy School of Government in September 2000, Summers declared: "The traditional industrial economy was a Newtonian system of opposing forces, checks and balances... While, in contrast, the right metaphors for the new economy are more Darwinian, with the fittest surviving."

He forgot to add the part about the fittest surviving by being bailed out by the rest of us."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/larry-summers-brilliant-m_b_178956.html

Outstanding nail hitting Arianna

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SO IT WAS STUPID CLINTON (#80)

But then, a guy who says Blair is a great man who has led an exemplary life must be a little short on wisdom?

Remind me - which party wheeled out Clinton at their election shindig?
Ed'll fix it.

Beware of 'statesmen' bearing lipstick.

Halal meat not for me!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

I've been thinking for some time of shoping for meat in a small local butchers shop. As there is so much secrecy around out animal slaughter and we aren't told we are eating halal meat, I'm not going to buy meat in supermarkets anymore, and will never ever buy New Zealand lamb again. I hardly eat out, and often have fish if I do, so that isn't a problem for me. In this case I hope the EU parliament decides to bring in this law stating whether meat is halal/kosher on the label.

Why if only 4% of our population is muslim, is halal meat so prevalant? Is it as tab01 said because it is so much cheaper? And what are the conditions like in a halal abatoir, do they adhere to the rules about the spinal column etc in beef animals, I really do wonder about this country, it's definitely going to the dogs!

AT LEAST THE DOGS ARE SAFE! (#83)

Perhaps the Halal meat is cheap because the abattoir labour is all illegal Liz. (:o)

It is quite possible that if you use a wine-based marinade, it turns back into infidel meat.

All in edgy-fun Blogdog.

Some interesting maps, and comments!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315078/Race-maps-America.html

#84 Aw Barrie don't talk to me about pet food! God knows what's in it, just about anything I believe!

According to the article, there was once only small independent butchers here selling halal/kosher meat. But now it's gone all big business, so there are enormous factories of them. Including a brand new one about to open in Wales, where they've had to get hundreds of slaughter men from Bangladesh. Made a lot of jobs for Wales! Not!

Don't worry, Dave, Nick and Ed will fix it! ; )

#83

Do you mean, Ecolizzy, that it's the 'dogs' that are going to take over the governance of the UK?

NO MIM (#87)

British governance will remain firmly in the hands of the headless chickens.

#88

Funny you should say that, singie. One of 'my' Consultant Brain Surgeons used to say it when I talked about patients' needs, worries and things like that. He particularly didn't appreciate me saying that I felt that some patients became almost friends, some of whom I remember very warmly till this day and a tag from a present from one of them is still hanging on my favourite plants which I'd bought for my office. It really was a tiny little thing and if you saw it now, well, it's thriving!!!! (^_^)(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)

mim

P.S. I shan't tell you what I've called it as it might give you, or one of your 'colleagues' the wrong idea.

By the way, do you remember a Tesco add over 20 years ago with an American actor advertising chicken? If I'm not wrong, it was something about some chick getting back, or something like that.

#85 ecolizzy

We can look forward to the same coloured maps for UK, liz.

Never expected this when we sang about England’s Green and pleasant land, and Dame Vera told us there’ll be bluebits all over the white cliffs of Dover.

That’s what happens with Tolerance, Apathy, Lethargy and Complacency.
Where did all the TALC go?..... long time passing.

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90. At 8:31pm on 26 Sep 2010, indignantindegene wrote:

"Never expected this when we sang about England’s Green and pleasant land, and Dame Vera told us there’ll be bluebits all over the white cliffs of Dover."

People never expected the inquisition, so let me suggest ever so briefly how it may surreptitiously legally and socially operate.

Nobody can doubt that there have been major changes to the demographics in the USA and UK (incl the EU) in recent decades but there is some discussion as to why.

Over in the USA, back in 1970, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) defined job tests as discriminatory if they had an adverse effect on employing Black Americans unless the tests could be shown to meet very strict requirements (essentially the tested abilities were absolutely necessary for the job at hand). In 1971, this was tested by Griggs v.Duke Power Company (1971) and the Supreme Court supported the EEOC and made the use of such tests illegal, but research showed the tests to be useful. In the light of all the research, the US Labor Department's Employment Service recommended what came to be called "race norming" (what happens here is that each ethnic group is tested according to its own norms, the effect being that groups which on average would score lower, end up getting bonus points). By 1990, 40 US states were doing this for public personnel selection. The US Justice Department actually challenged this as unconstitutional racial discrimination against whites in 1986, and "race norming" was banned by the Civil Rights Act of 1991.

Now, what was going on there do you think? Was any group especially advantaged rather than disadvantaged by any of this? This really is quite a subtle question, as it's a within group question. Do you see a very clever sleight of hand? If I am right, the trick has been to get one to focus upon the wrong group.

"That’s what happens with Tolerance, Apathy, Lethargy and Complacency."

Indeed. Look up The Difference Principle, part 2, in John Rawls' Theory of Justice and Political Liberalism. Note how Burton Dreben watched him like a hawk.

Clever things are done by law and in the name of Social Justice. I suggest what you refer to can be explained by looking and thinking carefully here. There have been some dirty tricks played in this field too.

REVENGE OF THE BATTERY HENS (#89)

Don't recall the ad Mim, but you should be aware that when there are not enough humans to accommodate all the available souls, they are 'stored' in animals. Those who spend a life in a battery hen, amass a terrible stock of rage. There, quite simply, is the cause of much violent crime!

#94

Revengeful and yet 'romantic' hens??? Is that what you mean, singie?? May I remind you that chicken cannot fly, however much they might try, all they can do is displace themselves a few feet covering a very short distance by comparison to, let's say eagles.

#95

If 'we' need to talk about animals, singie & mates, I think I shall stick with big cats, be they black, spotted or pink:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther

mim

I've just read that David Irving is in Poland 'announcing' that Hitler was one of the 'greatest Europeans challenging the world'. He does admit that Hitler could be very cruel but remains 'charmed' by the guy's ideas.

Plus, I've also read that a student couldn't stand his dad controlling him and as a consequence murdered him.

mim

It should be a corker tonight - Jeremy's at the Labour Party conference! Wonder if he'll be interviewing Red Ed?

No comment!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-news/8027019/Brazilian-artist-in-the-frame-assassinating-the-Pope-the-Queen-and-George-Bush.html

A MAN I CAN DO BUSINESS WITH (#99 link)

Hi Lizzy. A chap once contacted me by email to write poems called up by his pencil drawings. I would so love to do the same for this guy.

If Blair features in the series, I would offer ths one:

LITTLE BOY BLAIR

Little Boy Blair, Blow up a New Dawn
The Shia are jubilant Sunni forlorn.
But doesn’t he see the whirlwind we’ll reap?
He’s under a Bush and fast asleep.
Will you wake him? No not I. For if I do he’s sure to lie.