Wednesday 14 April 2010

"The four main themes of the 103-page booklet are fair taxes, more chances for children, a fairer and greener economy, and cleaning up politics."

What's point two about? Perforated condoms/placebo pill surprise packs? Lowering the voting age so even more uninformed people vote for their own demise (i.e. giving even more immature people the right to demand)?

This isn't cynicism, it's just an experienced grown up's comment on the nonsense which is now being churned out. Don't they see that what they're offering is what's been causing all the problems?

Brown on ITV : '"And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". '

Its amazing that this outbreak of honesty occurs as they are not closing the gap on the Tories and my personal expectation is that they will lose a few points to the Lib Dems and also the Tories over the coming weeks. Yet it would not have cost Brown anything to do it before and to be more expansive about the mistakes as it affects policy judgements.

They have hacked off their own supporters and the middle ground and having been everything to everybody they are approaching the realization that they are nothing much to anybody.

The Lib Dems are more credible on the economy and also on civil liberties and also on the environment and probably level on defence.

OK OK I know you are talking live to Vince Cable......but will Vince be......live

I think there will be plenty of tactical voting and I hope in particular in Stoke and Barking.

But it does seem likely this time that both the Tories and Lib Dems have been quite "scientific" in choosing where to pump in their resources so I will be very interested in whether this reaps dividends as they pull in more seats than their voting level suggests - despite the unfair first past the post system.

On the other hand voters do make you smile as they can be very fickle and perhaps some last minute issue - or even the weather on the day - may unseat these plans.

So will the chief worry for the BNP after the election be the mood at the next conference-in-a-field later in the year?

Its not a good sign if the publicity officer Collett is arrested over allegations of threatening to kill Griffin.

Are there fears of damage to their bouncey castle as tension in the queue breaks out?

Will Griffin relent and let his members wear uniforms and carry flags like their Hungarian far right partners?

Some posters on here have commented that Hitler went through similar problems before he "swept to power".

That tells you quite a lot about some posters on here and how "in touch" they are.

#54 from previous page

You sometimes sound quite hard, BYT., but I myself can be quite a stckler for a certain type of ethics, quality and emotional purity even.

mim

IN THE CONFUSION - GOING NOWHERE (#1)

You didn't put your point to music MaM; Age Of Change!

UNDEMOCRATIC VOTE GARNERING

My local LibDem hopeful's election flyer, whinges about 'votes bought by millionaires'. I can't think who he means, but he IS trying to unseat a Tory.

My assertion is that all but one or two MPs are 'Rosette Stands', who wear a Party-Favour backed by £-millions in advertising, WITHOUT WHICH THEY WOULD GET FEW VOTES.

Might 'In Yer Face' Crick, ask all MPs he confronts from now on: "Do the public vote for you, or the rosette?"

Might Newsnight, in turn, point out to the Electoral Commission, that the rosette is an UNQUANTIFIED EXPENSE that is used to enhance INDIVIDUAL candidates, who are otherwise strictly limited in expenditure?

thegangofone [#5] I may have you wrong here, but isn't the hallmark of unfair discrimination that of picking on incidental personal characteristics which are irrelevant to what substantively matters? Surely that's like picking on someone for the food which they like, or the shape of their nose etc? Isn't that bullying? In doing that, doesn't one risk irrationally dismissing/disrespecting other people's legitimate points of view? It's certainly likely to offend them is it not?

@ Kevseywevsey #42 & Flicks #43

Re: Jeremy's Glasses
His glasses are cute, and they are in style!
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/fashion/16GLASSES.html
They are a classic style worn by many people, including Ozzy Osbourne, Gandhi and John Lennon. So they are hardly to be sniffed at :p

@ Ecolizzy #49 - The thing is, a lot of people may not want to disclose which party they want to vote for - it is a very personal thing. I can understand why people may not be entirely truthful in front of the camera on who they would vote for. Imagine your work colleagues vote for a certain party, but you may vote for an opposing one. If they saw your views on camera, it might cause negativity in the workplace.

I'm not at all surprised at civil servants having a £1billion expenses spree on their credit cards.....

On the idea of using music/rap to encourage the younger vote - it worked for Obama, so it could well work here too ;o)

HARD IS NOT WHAT IT WAS MIM (#6)

Have you not heard? (I did post.) James G Brown is of "Granite-like resilience" (According to Peter Mandelson aka the Pink Peashooter).

Now I would never liken BYT, in any way, to Brown, whose Granite is more in his heart, and resilience in his dissembling. I would simply suggest you are muddling a HARD ACT TO FOLLOW with hardness itself. (:o)

When Jeremy Paxman was discussing the Conservative Party's proposed Education Policy with Michal Gode we were surprised that the extremely limited success of P.N.E.U schools was not mentioned. These schools were started with the worthy intention of involving parents in the aims of education, and the curriculum was given much thought. However, the very small number of the schools still open suggests that parents are not willing to be as involved as Michael Gode believes.

..US forces leave Afghanistan's Korengal Valley..

https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hvWEqwq3CrRvaQCmt21MfoYhjZJQD9F2SD2G0

too tough?

In the Independent:

'The Electoral Commission has launched an investigation into the accounting records of the British National Party, it was announced today.

The commission, which is the independent party finance watchdog, said it had began the probe into the party's 2008 statement of accounts.

This follows concerns raised about its "adequacy" by the independent auditor's report that accompanied it.

But the fact that an investigation had been launched did not mean there should be assumptions made over any alleged breaches, the commission stressed. '

Given the BNP have still not complied fully with the EHRC legal requirements over membership and the Humberside police investigation into allegations about one Richard Collett (BNP Publicity officer) and threats to kill in regard to one Nick Griffin (BNP leader) there do always seem to be plenty of allegations about the BNP.

As I recall several have records including Griffin for inciting racial harassment.

I can only hope that those in Stoke and Barking who would use a protest vote to further the cause of a non-democratic party wake up and smell the coffee.

#11

Well, singie, hardness has multifariuos meanings.

A hard act to follow? You obviously don't appreciate my astuteness.

mim

#6 Mim

I don't think I am hard, but on the other hard, though I can take a pretty uncompromising line on issues I consider to be of great importance. I AM honest. I AM incisive. I AM insightful. I am NOT stupid (but as I tried to say in #54 - having undergone some IQ tests - as an indicator I rate somewhere in the top 15% in the UK) yet I find sorting the wheat from the chaff - re what policies are real and good and beneficial (FAIR is not a good measure) so, frankly, my lack of understanding, coupled with the power vested in me, scares me rigid. SO what of the other 85%?

I would rather be hard than soft. It is the 'soft' society, soft on crime, soft on parents, soft on children, soft on handouts, soft on benefit hand outs, soft on bankers, soft on teachers/nhs workers, soft on immigration even that has led us to the slough of despond.

Just tell me honestly. As you cycle around London, speak to people, hear people, see people on tv do you think about the fact that ALL of them over 18, many with very limited intelligence and understanding, will be able to make a pretty critical decisions about how we ALL live for the next 5 years. There are more of them than us.

If you can say that you are happy with every adult you have met making a 'wise' decision, I want to move to where you live.

As it is, far too many people vote based on how much better off (or less worse off) THEY think THEY will be as individuals - with no breadth of understanding of needs of wider society or long term implications of the prettily packaged morsels they are being bribed (sorry, tempted) with.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. I AM!!

#1 math ap mathonwy

"This isn't cynicism, it's just an experienced grown up's comment on the nonsense which is now being churned out. Don't they see that what they're offering is what's been causing all the problems?"

It is rather subjective to cite a problem and a reaction to a problem but to offer no facts.

For instance "so even more uninformed people vote for their own demise" suggests a rather arrogant and elitist view of democracy and its why people should get out there and vote because if they don't the world is full of people who will make some extremely bad decisions on their behalf whilst claiming they have a mandate.

That said personally I would not lower the voting age - but then if somebody is old enough to go to war as has happened then they should get a vote.

Regarding .... Yesterday’s posts ....



11. At 10:00pm on 13 Apr 2010, kevseywevsey wrote:

and the response by ....

At 11:55pm on 13 Apr 2010, ecolizzy wrote:



As much as the video projects a story, a view, a ( collective? ) opinion, propaganda it might be worthwhile listening to the BBC link on the same page to get a different analysis.

That said .... Neither case - the ‘prosecution’ or the ‘defence’ - changes my view that we are reaching saturation point regarding population.

And still none of the big three are offering anything other than ....

More of the same.

Except the Lib Doms of course whom are offering even less of the “same”

Or is it ....

None of the ‘same’?



Regarding .... yesterday ....

At 00:00am on 14 Apr 2010, ecolizzy

One might also ask ....

Pop-up Politics? ( OK, it was so, so much heralded but is so, so little seen!)

Any Bafta nominations yet, I wonder?

So much for Nn engaging the GBP.

Maybe the BBC doesn’t don’t need our vote?




Quite a few positive comments recently on here on Mr and Mrs Top Con and, more recently, questionable praise for the Nu Con’s ‘manifesto’ (Quangos on every park bench anyone?) More a statement of - fraud based and self deluding - philosophical ramblings to suit the masses really! But the party faithful know the real intent, don’t they?

A clearer presentation of the devolution of power to the people is offered in Michael Crick’s recent blog entitled “Lifting the lid on David Cameron's centralist tendencies”

Well worth reading!

Genuine curiosity on my part ....

And can anyone explain why the MOD is being ‘done’ for racial discrimination when it was the UK Borders Agency that refused permission for the relative to come to this country to undertake child-care for the claimant? (Are there no childcare facilities currently available in this country? Do child-minders not get enough points under the ‘system’?)


Oh! .... And

statist .... Gone, but not gone. Fare well and welcome back.

#9 math ap mathonwy

"In doing that, doesn't one risk irrationally dismissing/disrespecting other people's legitimate points of view? It's certainly likely to offend them is it not?"

Lets cut through it.

The BNP and associated far right types on here try to foster a racial agenda that is illegitimate as there is no basis for it in science.

Similarly one poster in particular gets away with making constant allegations about a "Jewish hegemony" but has never provided any factual basis for it.

Ditto the Holocaust "was made up to put people off statism".

Those that try to argue that there is a choice when it comes to science don't seem to understand the concept of statistical significance and science.

Nor do they seem to understand that if those like the BNP argue there is a good cause for a racial agenda but can't provide any kind of evidence in a court against the EHRC that sepaks volumes.

If people of the far right are offended then frankly who cares?

As for bullying it is not bullying to point out the factual errors and to ask for the evidence that lies behind the allegations and I will trust in the moderator who has been far too lenient to far right complaints this week.

#8 barriesingleton

"My assertion is that all but one or two MPs are 'Rosette Stands', who wear a Party-Favour backed by £-millions in advertising, WITHOUT WHICH THEY WOULD GET FEW VOTES."

The thing is most people will trust a party to a large extent to find honourable candidates.

Smaller parties tend to have more problems hence UKIP have lost one or two candidates and members due to unsavoury problems.

But people like the BNP get a small vote because they don't merit a large one. If their publicity officer has been accused by their party leader of threats to kill and they have still not complied with the EHRC on membership rules and the law that tells you a lot about what lies behind their rosette doesn't it?

Thats before you even get to the racial notions that have no basis in science.

Its interesting that the far right posters on here are either migrating to new identities as they seem to do from time to time or they are out dropping leaflets and so on.

On the other hand perhaps in the case of those BNP supporters all of the Collett/Griffin shenanigans combined with the police taking a closer look at the far right via Prevent and the exposure of their rhetoric to reality in the shape of EHRC legal requirements has made some rethink their ideas.

Lets hope so or that they decide to go off to their own blogosphere - Storm is it called?

#15 addendum

For example, singie, by CARP Brightyangthing may be implying a degree of embarrassment but, as they say, if takes two to tango, it is a different story to that of yours and your mates. You yourself admitted to profanities.

Why embarrassment? I've sent off details of my case to the European Parliament, writers, lawyers and journalists. But it doesn't look like you, statist/jaded_jean and a few others have even a shred of shame left in your sinews with one of you being a deranged schizophrenic.

mim

OMG! David Cameron RUNS AWAY from having an interview with Jeremy!!!! How pathetic.....

Source: https://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/04/cam-runs-away-from-paxo.html

On top of Cameron's failure to give an interview to Jeremy, it has now come to light that two former Tories have now defected to Labour because of the party's homophobic stance.

Source: https://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Tory-Gay-Policy-Row-Two-Former-Conservatives-Join-Labour-Criticising-Lack-Of-Gay-Rights/Article/201004215601907?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15601907_Tory_Gay_Policy_Row%3A_Two_Former_Conservatives_Join_Labour%2C_Criticising_Lack_Of_Gay_Rights

#22 addendum

I also sent the details to the Polish Premier, Mr Donald Tusk. I didn't send it to Barack Obama but my impression is he knows exactly what's going on and I doubt it somehow he'be following statist's advice. Nor did I send it to Nicolas Sarkozy who may have succumbed to the game but then there are some French who, it looks like at least, know my story only too well.

HEY! CHURCHILL! WOULD IT BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST, BEFORE WANDERING OFF?

Looks as if Blogdog has muddled 'AWOL' with "WROUWWWWLLLLL!" again.

fairness

they all use that word

fair
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fair

good
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/good

given fair is

...neither excellent nor poor; moderately or tolerably good...

a good society looks better [has more good] than a fair society?

does anyone believe the uk guardian class is qualified to pretend they are

..free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice...

what qualifications do they have to demonstrate they can command that function of being 'fair'?

#17 GO1

"....its why people should get out there and vote because if they don't the world is full of people who will make some extremely bad decisions on their behalf whilst claiming they have a mandate."

It would be nice if the balance of the world was in that idealistic realm. But everywhere Johnny public far outweighs number of despots claiming ANY mandate, good bad or indifferent. And Johnny public is made up increasingly of people who see and think no further than THEIR child's SCHOOL, THEIR tax breaks, THEIR choices........

As for going to war giving one the right to vote. I am not entirely sure that a 16 year old OFFERING to join the military in current times at least fills me full of awe and wonder at their wisdom.

#16

I didn't say you were hard but that you can be hard. Having been brought up by smokers /up to the age of about 8/ with only a kitchen, one room and a windowless loo, with no, as far as I can see, adverse effects on my health, and having known quite poor people living on the estates, etc, I just couldn't use the words you have in describing their customs or complete lack of understanding of politics and inaptitude for voting. However, you are right that on the whole people, whether poor or rich, do mostly think about the immediate benefits for themselves rather than looking at the nees of a wider society.

I would also agree with you on the issue of too much softness in the contexts that you describe. When I was still at St George's a suggestion was made that perhaps I could become a manager but I knew only too well that you would have far too hard and perhaps too uncompromising on some of the behavioural patterns of staff to even consider it. I would probably live in a permanent conflict within myself between trying to be understanding on one hand and demanding on the other. When at work I have been known to be extremely demanding of myself and perhaps my expectations of others don't often match those that I seem to impose upon myself.

Regarding your IQ results, I've always considered you as a highly intelligent person and the fact that you admit to not having ready solutions to everything, like those on what policies would be best for the future of this country, makes you, in my eyes, even more intelligent.

mim

P.S. I've reached the stage where fear doesn't feature and if needs be I'll just have to carry on with my fight for justice, freedom and official recognition until I get there.

YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS MAN (#20)

"The thing is most people will trust a party to a large extent to find honourable candidates."

Have you tried putting that to the punters in the high-street? Take your own rope. Why would parties want HONOUR in their ciphers? (Ambition is all they need.) They would only have to whip any honour out of them.

thegangofone [#19] "If people of the far right are offended then frankly who cares?"

Presumably they are? From what I recall, a sizeable part of the electorate voted for BNP MEPs did it not? Is that not why the BBC had to give them coverage?

"As for bullying it is not bullying to point out the factual errors and to ask for the evidence that lies behind the allegations and I will trust in the moderator who has been far too lenient to far right complaints this week."

It is bullying to try to force people to accept what one wants by abusing them or threatening them. As I wasn't sure that it was that you were doing (you seemed to be be abusing an entire section of the electorate, so I thought I should ask why, as that group amounts to a sizeable minority of nearly a million people. Are they not entitled to have their political preferences respected? I really don't understand why you post what you do.

As to evidence, what evidence do you seek? About what? There's certainly lots of evidence for human diversity, in all sorts of areas. That's all very well researched and undisputed to the best of my knowledge. There's even recent research reported in Nature that those who don't discriminate differences between races may have brain damage. i.e. it's natural. Have you seen it?

https://www.nature.com/news/2010/100412/full/news.2010.176.html

To the best of my knowledge, education teaches one to both look for, and to respect differences, and biology is all about variation, i.e diversity. Think how medicine copes with different blood groups, tissue types, etc. Politics is largely about is trying to find ways to better manage human diversity.

Don't you agree?

#23 & #24

Mistress76uk

Perhaps, after all, David Cameron doesn't deserve to win.

I think I'm getting more and more like Brightyangthing in not knowing what would be best for the UK though I couldn't claim to have his IQ. But then perhaps we do have complimentary types of intelligence.

mim

so we will listen to vince and pretend all is well elsewhere -

former head of the IAEA mohamed elbaradei has expressed support for palestinian resistance calling gaza the worlds largest jail.

or

classified documents reveal that the IDF had committed war crimes in the west bank, anat kam the former soldier indicted for espionage over an alleged theft of top secret material told the court earlier in the year according to police documents released allowed for publication monday at the request of haaretz.

or


white supremacist father and son plotted terror attacks - teenage milkman denies possessing material useful to a terrorist while helping to run his fathers aryan strike force website - computers seized in a police raid on a house in annfield plain county durham last year yielded data showing that "ops" involving bombs were in the early stage of planning ..

"And Johnny public is made up increasingly of people who see and think no further than THEIR child's SCHOOL, THEIR tax breaks, THEIR choices........"
you can thank the media and the education system .. and of course big money .

anyway isnt the next stage Chaos and RIPA and Iran.

the more i hear about cameron's 'people power' the more it sounds like mob rule.

the evidence from africa where ngos provide public services is that the ngos become the focus of politics not the elected representatives who become marginalised.

why go to the mp who can do nothing when you have to go talk to the bishop of the church providing services?

having been in 'community action' for several years my experience is that it will be patchy. some areas will be good others hopeless.

even with state action the uk has 'no go' zones for the police.

any political vaccumm is filled either by good forces or by those not so good or even with no good.

jauntycyclist [#35] "the more i hear about cameron's 'people power' the more it sounds like mob rule."

Good, because it should be obvious that it's nonsense. As Newsnight (and many others have pointed out), we elect MPs to run a government using the Civil Service and via Public Services, not to abrogate governance. They want power but they don't want responsibility to govern. The Conservatives know this very well, as what they want is less government which will oil the wheels of the Private Sector, and on top of that, they will further strip Public Services. That is the only reason that Thatcher made it look like the country was doing OK in the 80s and 90s as she sold off the family silver and reduced the country to mainly the Service Sector and Financial Services. She was asset stripping Public Services to release locked in capital whilst getting people into debt. The rest is sad history. Our recent problems didn't all start with Blair and Brown.

SO WHAT IS THE IQ OF SHINY-BOY DAVE? (#32)

Any man who is so ambitious he allows his face (the seat of identity, from birth) to be altered, in a bid for political gain, must have some pretty bent cogs somewhere. If Cameron has a high IQ, it only goes to show that THAT quotient reflects not one jot on humanity - it just indicates a narrow band of sterile function.

I ask again: with all his advantages, why is he so keen to control MY life (+ a few others)? I have no ambition to run his.

#38

So is Brightyangthing David Cameron? Is that what you meant by a hard case to follow?

mim

barriesingleton [#38] "I ask again: with all his advantages, why is he so keen to control MY life (+ a few others)? I have no ambition to run his."

He doesn't. His party wants Barclays, Lloyds, M&S and other businesses to control our lives. His party wants us to be consumers. More cold calling, more entrepreneurs, more change, change change. It will be like New Labour on cocaine.

I repeat: he and his friends clearly want the Private Sector to run things. It needn't be the British Private Sector either.

They're the model party which 'doesn't do government' - it's the party which New Labour modelled itself on to get elected in 1997 remember.

38

tom browns schooldays

for some people power is like heroin.

the bullingdon club is all about having the power to trash a place and then pay for having enjoyed that pleasure'?

one might wonder if trashing a place isn't the result of some kind of inarticulate autism?

ambition for the good is one thing ambition abuse [as a drug] is another.

37

they have no nation building science but believe in relativism ie there is no such thing as the good. which means anything is as good as anything else so what does it matter who does what.

if a nation comes out of a common feeling then the role of the guardian is to nuture that common feeling and keep its unity not fracture it into a balkanisation of services.

if they knew what the good was then they would do it? The guardian class should be experts in the good. instead they wish to see the uk run by 'local militias'.

#16

'I AM honest. I AM incisive. I AM insightful.' - I thought you were.

Regarding power vested in you - I appreciate your difficulties. My way of dealing with the current situation will be to relax. If the politicians want to remain blind and deaf, it's their problem. I've given them several chances before. From now on I shall try to concentrate much more on the near and dear, gliding & twirling, and books.

Moving to where I am? - you're welcome to do that in any way you wish but not accommodation wise. Why don't you pop in to the ice rink one day if you're down in London?

mim

#22

singie

I should have said a greedy megalomaniac schizophrenic sexopath

Despite what many domestic voters think of it, the UK is still of some interest to persons who live outside of it, whether they are EU neighbours who are interested in UK's views on Europe, or the countries where the UK is at war, or the former colonies where English is spoken and there remains an interest in UK politics, sport and culture. However, in common with many of the UK's greatest former industries (such as car mamufacturing which is reduced to assembling Japanese cars, shipbuilding which is gone from UK, aviation which is dominated by the US and Airbus etc), the BBC's policy of blocking content to non-UK computers is a disgrace. Newsnight has disappeared, even for UK license payers who live overseas. The platitudes on the iPlayer webpages reflect a non-interest, promising a far-off international version of iPlayer but complaining of broadwidth. The BBS's best output is Newsnight, as it is the only program that tries to bring the politicans to account, and is a model for many other countries for this kind of democratic accountability. Can someone at Newsnight please demand answers from the BBC on why their excellent content is blocked outside of the UK? Whilst the the world has gone global, the BBC has shrunk its output to mobile devices and laptopcs in the UK only, and why would anyone there use this, instead of TVs? Can the BBC simply inroduce relief for UK BBC license holders where they input their license code or some other piece of unique information on the license to gain access to news and current affairs only? Ironically, this is something I suspect the BBC's Dragons' Den lot would go for, not not the BBC itself. As the BBC is probably the best possible global portal for marketing all the good aspects of British life and culture, and tourism and business, it is a shame that the BBC use their new technoogy to say "no" to outsiders.

Well yes Math but where are you going to dig up an Old Labour Party? ; )

Have to agree that Blair/Brown carried on where Maggie left off.

HOW CAN THEY CLEAN UP POLITICS WHEN PARTIES SELECT DIRTY RASCALS?

As I have so often bewailed, political parties pre-select the candidates we are, subsequently, permitted to vote for. Even with the goldfish memory of most voters, they are currently aware that party-selected politicians are not 'like us'. THEY actually delight in obfuscation and dissembling (to name but two) and the more devious they are, in furthering party interests (aka fooling the electorate) the higher their standing with the party. Now - put 600-odd of those, in one institution, and then try to get it to clean itself up. See what I mean?

Unless we can DISRUPT POLITICAL CHICANERY (at a party level) politics will stay dirty by default.

IS IT ME OR ARE THE WIVES LESS VISIBLE?

Has Mrs Clegg done us all a favour by refusing to be a political prop?
Might it be the other two parties - now running scared of young Nick, in case he calls his dad, have realised they look crass doing the wife thing, BY COMPARISON?

Muy bien!

Excellent show tonight - from Jeremy's interview with Vince Cable to the segment with Peter Hain & Lord Rennard both trying to persuade the electorate to vote for either of them! Loved the trio of Finkelstein/Grender/Price (no Hyman tonight?). The funniest of the evening was Danny Robins - look forward to more from him!

YOU KNOW THOSE EXPLOSIVE RAMS THE STUNT MEN USE TO ROLL A CAR . . .

Well - it seems to me, they fit one in any car that delivers Brown. The rear door opens, and KABOOM! he comes cartwheeling out looking wildly about him, before lunging towards his first, hapless encounter. When the three witches have finished advising him to oblivion, he could join the circus with that act.

I HEAR A RUMOUR THAT NEWSNIGHT IS TO BE RENAMED 'THE BIG PARADE'

They have been monitoring the Blog to establish the type of mentality to whom the razzamatazz, son et lumiere and general edginess appeals.

There was some concern that the number of trombones might have to be cut, with an obvious 'disconnect'. But san fairy Ann, who would notice?

See - Crick doesn't know everything!

I guess you can call it "the straw that broke the camel's back" but David Cameron comparing him to a premier league footballer and an "overpaid prima donna" is the last straw. PATHETIC.

Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7590552/David-Cameron-says-he-does-not-want-to-be-shouted-at-by-overpaid-prima-donna-Jeremy-Paxman.html

NEWSFLASH - CATERPLLAR OUT-EVOLVES TONY BLAIR.

The BBC science department email says that a certain type of caterpillar has evolved to AVOID UNNECCESSARY DEATHS THROUGH CONFLICT.

There you go Tony. Maybe God is trying to tell you something? Take the money out of your ears, and listen.

IT'S THE WAY HE TELLS 'EM

When Clegg teed-up his next flourish with: "This isn't a promise" I thought: "Good god, he is going to say PLEDGE!" So my deflation was total when he gave us: "plan". I have just tried to get the measure of the flop. How about: "HE IS NOT A LEADER IN WAITING, HE IS A POLITICIAN!"

All the parties seem to have hired disastrous wordsmiths who can't even keep up with the wordjoneses. I can only assume they are state-retrained tailors, from Emperorland, thrown out of work by some pesky kid.

BYT

If you had the choice between a few really, absolutely amazing sex experiences and love & honour, which option would you choose?

mim

And may I make it absolutely clear again - money, worldly treasures and, let's say, great promises of globe trottering, in no way have any significance by comparison to love & honour, and love inspired moments of gliding and twirling on ice.

mim

#16
When I'm up in the middle of the night it usually means I'm in pain. Reading this makes me worse. Gango really had the measure of you didn't he.

There are three main parties and one of two are likely to gain power, however the way the Tories are talking it will likely be a hung parliament. This person doesn't think the majority have the intelligence to understand any of this and therefore make a decision about their coumunity and well being and probably to vote. Further they are right up their you know what with the IQ thing - who does that remind you of ? What next - will you be advocating the virtues of Auschwitz to get rid of all those substandard humans? That is of course after you have 'singled them out' and bullied them. Its a pity mim cant see you for what you are. I find women of the far right particularly nauseating.

I just wanted to say something.

#57

flicks

You have everything wrong, both about me and about BYT. I won't defend Brightyangthing as she can do it for herself should she feel it's worth the bother but I'm surprised about you misinterpreting what I'm about after having tricked me under the name of Streetphotobeing into correspondence via flckr. As a consequence, I don't myself feel any value at all in trying to elucidate anything further to you.

By the way, are you still fantasising about doing 'something' to Carol Ann Duffy and for Israel to drop a nuke on Iran? I don't think you'll ever make it gold wise, flicks, anyway.

Going back to your #16 BYT:

* I don't condone smoking in front of children myself

* It's not always easy for highly intelligent and outstanding people but I don't see any reason at all why one shouldn't mention one's IQ when a particular reason for it arises

* We come, Brightyangthing, from very different historical backgrounds and have had different experiences, and so on, but I feel there is something special between us at quite a few levels, in fact, with ethical central core values and appreciation of quality in particular playing enormous parts in the communication between us

* You mentioned bribery. It's disgusting what's been going on all over the place

Hope to hear from you later, BYT

mim

SMOKESCREEN OR CLOUD OF ASH?

#57

I do not feel the need to defend myself against someone who by their own admission is perhaps allowing pain to cloud their judgement. And I do not feel the need to defend what I see and what I believe about what I see in the way the world (western ‘civilised’????) is going. Just because I Say what I See, does not mean I like what I see, or that I like what seem to be some of the tough choices – those that will hurt me and those that will hurt/curtail activities of others.

I will say that I personally believe very strongly in a society where the strong and rich SHOULD support the weak and poor. Support can sometimes require delivering tough lessons. Sometimes people need their ‘toys’ removed for their own safety because they cannot see the sharp edges themselves. Statistics indicate that the balance of weak/strong is now out of kilter, thus damaging the ability of the strong to do what they SHOULD do. SO what do we do? Continue to put in place policies that do nothing to correct the swing, even exacerbate it? We are in essence designed for community living, communities need organisation and management but most of all they need a strong core. Where is our strong core?

What we are sadly lacking are leaders who have the insight, the wisdom, the strength, the compassion, the tenderness to both see and do the right thing. Anyone who thinks that equates to being a proponent of ’chav death camps’ needs to look inside themselves before they point fingers. They must have their heads in a cloud of Icelandic volcanic ash and are in essence no better than inadequate name calling playground bullies.

Problem is, if those leaders ARE out there, NO ONE will vote for them because too many of the voters are either too comfortable, too damaged, too selfish, too manipulated by the media, too under the cosh of the ‘it’s the economy stupid’ message we swallow lock stock and smoking at our medium/long term peril, simply too scared to WANT to see – because it is not pretty if you extrapolate the swing another generation or two, the bloody great pile of doo doo’s we are continuing to bury ourselves under, calling it a progressive ‘fair’ society. Life’s NOT fair. It’s not meant to be. Get used to it.

They say a nation/society is judged by how it treats its elderly. That needs broadening. We are judged (or should be) on how we treat our ‘poor and weak’. That is a broad band. I simply do NOT think that putting in place policies that offer everything the same to everyone, whether they can handle it or not, is good policy. It is not what the poor/weak NEED. But they have been told for several generations now that it IS what they SHOULD WANT, and that they should EXPECT it. Credit (Sub Prime); cheap booze; throw away consumer goods, own homes....... The sums simply don’t work.

Let me give a small personal example of how crippling this ‘fair for all’ message is. I volunteer many ,many hours a week (I get paid a few) in a sports club environment where we encourage ALL abilities and actively support disabled and under privileged youngsters often supported in time and money by

I have spent far too many hours recently trying to balance the needs of several large groups of contented players in order to fend off attack from an individual who is demanding a new group be set up in which their precious able bodied child can be a winner. Unfortunately a group of one is not a group. And this family have the money to buy individual options. If this child does not have superlative such as ‘wonderful, brilliant, ace, great, fantastic’ tossed at them every 5 minutes, they sulk off, cry to parents and parents start writing letters with words like ‘discrimination/mean/unfriendly/unwelcoming’ to the local press. BECAUSE this child (and many others like them) are NOT being taught how to handle disappointment, failure or simply being ORDINARY, rather than EXTRA ordinary. The organisation I work with is in grave danger of being crippled under the stress of handling this issue and others like it. It is preventing us from spending time 9and money) where it is needed. Bringing a group of introspective youngsters with Down’s Syndrome, severe Autism, and other problems out to enjoy life in the community once in a while. What’s FAIR about that?

I can SEE the problem. But overwhelming UNFAIR legislation does not allow us to ‘manage’ this persons expectations on a reasonable level. We are forced to bend so far over backwards I will soon be able to bite my own ankles. I cannot SEE the solution, until a few more people realise that not many roses are scented but they ALL have thorns!

I am sorry about your ill health and pain Flicks. I hope it can be better managed for you.

#62

A brilliant answer, BYT. I might come back to it later.

Hope you won't have to bite your own ankles.

mim

#58 I just wanted to say something.

Hhhhmmm don't worry Mr Calm, I get the feeling that's how the politicians feel as well, empty promises.

#62 Very good post BYT and I agree with you. I've also worked many hours in a voluntary capacity, in primary schools and before that playgroups, it's quite an eye opener.

I can see what Cameron's getting at, but I feel we also need strong leaders in place. Unfortunately I don't see any. Helping others should be a natural position for people, but those that need help should also recognise they can help themselves as well. A quality I find very strong amongst immigrants, but seems lost to the indigenous population.

ecolizzy [#46] "Well yes Math but where are you going to dig up an Old Labour Party?"

I don't know, to be honest. But the politics of Britain have long been to give the electorate no real choice as I see it, which effectively I'd argue produces a dictatorship of a unique kind were it not also true of a lot of other post-war, US affiliated, democracies.

Back in 1997, many naively thought that New Labour was just that, NEW Labour, a reborn Labour. What they didn't grasp was that was everything that differentiated them from The Conservatives had been stripped out, which is why they had to make out that ideology no longer mattered. Ideology always matters in politics. It's what party politics is all about in the end. A collection of discernible policies is an ideology in my view.

Brightyangthing's post at [#16] is sound in my view. No doubt activists will try to bully her and others for saying such things, it's why so few people speak their mind these days, but this bullying needs to be stood up to, and I hope others support her.

I have to say, having read some of the other contributions here I really can't tell whether some of them are instances of ignorance, political activism or just pure mischief. At least one poster keeps posting things which are frankly the opposite of what is true, and I'm surprised that BBC House Rules allow that. There are those who will not veer from what they purport to be true simply because their function as political activists is to cause as much confusion as possible. It's an old tactic of the far-left. Ironically it was most effectively used against the Labour Party, especially in the 1970s and 1980s.

I've never seen the party which called itself New Labour in the 90s as having much in common with Old Labour, but I don't know what we can do about it. I think the politics we NOW have was forced upon us by the Cold WAR. I don't personally think that the BNP is a credible alternative, and UKIP just seems to be a clever way to attract votes away from the BNP. I do, however, see what many voters could be attracted to both (or Independents) out of desperation.

As Brightyangthing says in post [#16] anybody with any intelligence should be able to see through the nonsense we have been served up by the three main parties to date, and credit to Newsnight so far for effectively making a theme of this. Sadly, as she says, there are lots more people who have not benefited from much education, and they have a vote too. They just don't know what's going on, because they can't grasp it, and I think it's evil that our politicians prey upon them the way that they do. In my view, it is they who try to keep these individual differences quiet, i.e. because if more people did see through their 'we're all the same, and in this together' malarkey, more people would be appalled at just how evil their predation actually is, especially when talking about lowering to voting age to 16 etc.

#66 ~Math~

Back in 1997, many naively thought that New Labour was just that, NEW Labour, a reborn Labour. Yup that was me!

It's what party politics is all about in the end. A collection of discernible policies is an ideology in my view. Yes there is no difference between any party these days.

I don't personally think that the BNP is a credible alternative, and UKIP just seems to be a clever way to attract votes away from the BNP. I do, however, see what many voters could be attracted to both (or Independents) out of desperation. Yes my view entirely, despite Go1s attacks on me.

As Brightyangthing says in post [#16] anybody with any intelligence should be able to see through the nonsense we have been served up by the three main parties to date, and credit to Newsnight so far for effectively making a theme of this. Agree again, I find people are just not interested in politics, when I was young people did seem to understand it all. But nowadays with so much spin on everything, I think people do find it difficult to sort things out in their mind. And as most 18 year olds aren't voting why bother with 16 year olds?! Why do babes have to be involved in everything, all politicians getting so much younger?! Just like the non existent grey haired older woman news reader?! ; )

#62 FAIRNESS

Alls fair in love and war, perhaps that should be quoted a bit more often!

I think all this fairness propaganda is a ploy by the political and chattering classes. It's often quoted by the rich and famous as well, as they sit in their media life and ivory towers.

If you talk to Joe Bloggs, he knows and understands life's not fair, and never will be. You just get on with it. Well he did do, as BYT says he is now told he can have it all, but he damn well can't, and the politicians and chattering classes all know that, but it's a secret just amongst themselves.

LEST WE FORGET

Parties want to gain and hold power. They are at best, amoral.

Parties pre-select candidates who readily support the above ethos.

Parties have long been comprised of candidates they have chosen.

This is an ever tightening spiral of iniquity.

It follows: party political governance cannot clean itself up as Clegg declares.

But then Clegg is - as defined above - 'part of the problem'.

They are all part of the problem.

DISRUPT PARTISAN CHARADES

Do the Lib Dems really want an amnesty for all illegal immigrants, it'll cost us all a mint of money

https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1266036/NHS-contractor-hired-3-400-illegal-immigrants-work-hospitals.html

And then there are the kids, who will marry and reproduce, the 70 million mark will come much quicker than predicted. These "children" are mostly over 16, I bet!

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2932872/UK-pays-50000-a-year-to-look-after-each-abandoned-child-asylum-seeker.html

And then Darling walks away from a straight question, just like Brown did with the man enquiring about his childs school.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Darling-ducks-angry-challenge-from.6224944.jp

Why do politicians never face their electorate head on?

ecolizzy [#70] "Why do politicians never face their electorate head on?"

Most of what we see now is staged theatre by the Party PR machines. The politicians have to get as many votes as possible, and have to show they can handle all sorts of challenges. None of these party leaders are stupid, they all have very good credentials, which is why it's silly to malign any of them in that way. The problem we have is that they are political realists. They know the limits of what can be done in this global economy with powerful political lobbies. Many had their political baptisms in USA brain-washing factories and know that if they want a life in politics, they have to toe the USA small government line. There are powerful sanctions for anyone who steps out of line.

That's pretty much what I think we saw in the Credit Crunch I fear. A warning. Our politics is driven by those who make money out of the markets. That is not conspiratorial. Pension funds, Local Authorities assets, even people's homes, are all dependent on how the markets work. people are locked in. Look at what's happening to Greece. Look to any country which tries to stand up to this. They are met with sanctions. Look at what Greece will have to pay for bail out loans - 5% for now. But if the IMF gets involved, well, that will pressure them to sell state assets, ie not only Public Services will be hit, but national assets will be sold off. Read the criticisms (even Wikipedia will do) about what countries have had to pay for their (mainly the USA remember) help. Think back to the 1970s and Britain. The USA has many countries over a barrel. In recent years, this has changed somewhat, but that's another story. For now, the problem is that we have been lured into massive debt, and we are being induced to selling our furniture, and ultimately it could be our homes, and even our children (at least, their labour) to assuage other people's greed.

It's disgusting.

#71 Understand completely Math.

So why don't we hug Europe closer to our bosom? Why don't we take part fully in Europe, instead of following only the dictats? We always follow the letter of the law from Europe, unlike Germany and France, so why don't we stand up to some of the sillier laws?

Does the USA have too much influence in Europe as well? I presume it does. Why does the USA treat it's poor so badly? Profit I presume.

Why are we as a nation so impressed with the USA? Why do we meekly follow along? Is it all about Money?

And yes and what happens when India and China are the major players?!

I find it quite ironic that the savers of China are bailing out the US of A!

#61
Afraid I couldn't continue to talk to you because you have significant and constant thoughts about being under surveillance, any challenge to that you find very offensive. I don't recall anything about Carol Ann Duffy. With regards Israel and nukes - its a real possibility.

As the other far right person ecolizzy says on here - you fail to understand the idiom of a text in English. For example when BYT talks about moving to where you live, she means this figuratively and not literally. This failure takes you to all kind of incorrect conclusions and sometimes upsets you a lot and is related to the above. Its why I think you need to be engaged professionally.

BTW BYT is very well aware of your problem and given her views she wouldn't want you having any say either. But then she isn't going to express that.

flicks [#73] "As the other far right person ecolizzy says on here"

Presumably this "far-right" term is new street lingo like "random"? Is it just a term which is used to classify people one doesn't agree with?

FRANKLY MY DEAR, I DON’T GIVE A CASTLEMAIN XXXX

#73

Oh dear Flicks, how VERY VERY VERY wrong and misguided you are.

On several counts – first and foremost

“.....BYT is very well aware of your problem and given her views she wouldn't want you having any say either”

Mim’s intelligence and ‘wisdom’ is quite apparent, despite the ‘issues’ that you appear to delight in highlighting at every given opportunity. Intellect way beyond many many other posters I have come across in many blogs and mb’s over the years.

Then you take great pains to point out/point AT

“....talks about moving to where you live, she means this figuratively and not literally.”.

And this after you have stated

“.....any challenge to that you find very offensive.”

Yet you continue to ‘challenge, having clearly stated, albeit in reference to a specific issue. To what end? Why do you think most people, myself included choose NOT to respond to the less rational comments of MOST posters.

Mim also has an ability to assimilate other’s thoughts and to see and think beyond the normal parameters of ‘how it is’ and takes pains to try and understand, through question and referral, why ‘how it is’ may not be perfect. She tries to understand the broader truths. And she understands the limitations of communication with the unseen/unknown. Many on here could take note and take lessons.

She can also detach herself from opposing views and the individual and acknowledge differences as well as similarities and shared values when you read between the lines and let the fog clear a bit.

In my world, freedom of speech is most probably a good thing, but I know we are NOT all equal adn accept limitations that should be applied to all of us in different ways. You might be safe if I packed your parachute or changed your tyre, but you certainly wouldn’t want me flying your airplane, or undertaking your appendectomy. I noted earlier someone posted about how many parents WANT to get involved in running schools. I can tell you from experience that not many do. Even those with the skills and intelligence to undertake the task, when given powers to hire and fire head teachers, most members of school boards resigned after the first disastrous attempt. And a year of disruption was visited upon 700 pupils because a mandate was given to people who really didn’t understand what they were taking on and making decisions on. Sound familiar?

People need to be ‘competent’ to undertake certain tasks and I think that should include voting on things they don’t understand. My point about IQ was not a boast. It is a fairly pointless number as far as I can see.
It was to suggest that if I am unclear as to what long term results may come from various party policies and financial decisions, what hope those who appear to have less cognitive ability than people like me. That’s why many Don’t vote by choice. They are perhaps the wiser among us.

But you won’t get that either.

It is the system that is wrong. It makes people think they are important when most of us simply are not. It does so because people who believe the lie are easier to manipulate for gain than those who know the painful truth.

What you think of me I care not one jot. You do not KNOW me Flicks. I do not KNOW you, or Mim, or Statist, or EcoLizzy, or Gango, or Kevsey, or Barrie......... So a little less name calling wouldn’t go amiss. But as far as your opinion of me is concerned...... Do I look bovvered?

math@71

Electioneering changed forever here in the UK when Labour adopted the Clinton model; the focus group driven policy making to ensure the win. Mandelson was at the vanguard of this new approach of winning the electorates mind, it proved to be very effective. Give the electorate what they wanted - or what they thought they wanted - and you will get power, simple really. Born from that came the spin, upfront dishonesty, and any election promises made could be dropped; no shame or embarresment shown from our new breed of politicians. The result is third raters - such as Mandelson - now sit in high office, no real skill or vision for any genuine betterment, but clearly they are masters of sculldugery. They prod us like sheep into what ever formation they choose for us; some thankfully escape the herd and watch-on whilst the masters busy prepare in introducing yet more tax and giving banks more of our money, well they do work for the banking cartels who ensure their continued lifes of luxury, they ain't gonna risk that now are they! We are born and our number is already floated on the market; we are stock, we are commodity and generate ever more money and power for the international bankers and oligarchs. Most don't see the dark maneuvers made against us, well, we are too busy watching soaps and football to take any notice of what is really happening; whilst the IMF and other front groups - yet again - are busy in enslaving another nation. Tony and CO get positions with these organisations, the cricket loving Ex Prime Minister John Major works for the Carlyle group and nobody bats an eyelid.

Over the pond the Barry Obama administration are preparing for war with Iran. That may be hard to believe but consider Barry Obama's promises about his anti-war stance; bring the boys back home etc, well he did the opposite, like most of his election promises; he broke them but the fools over there (and here) still think he's a great president, yeah, he can still walk on water whilst reading the teleprompter, most are easily impressed aren't they.. not having the ability to spot a stooge President is a real handicap - even Barry Obama can't see he's just a stooge - and its also very dangerous.

#73
First of all it was me who stopped our correspondence.
Secondly, how do you know what BYT might or might not think about me? Has she told you?
Thirdly, you do not undderstand the subtleties of my sense of humour.
I do actually have 'wicked' resources in my mind but not many can grasp that and you obviously are one of them.

ecolizzy [#72] "Does the USA have too much influence in Europe as well? I presume it does. Why does the USA treat it's poor so badly? Profit I presume.

Why are we as a nation so impressed with the USA? Why do we meekly follow along? Is it all about Money?"

Britain paid for the USA's 'help' in WWII with its empire, and, ironically, with its independence. Before WWII Britain was still a major economic competitor for the controlling forces in the USA (mainly through Wall Street). Britain had to give India its independence, and lost its influence in the Middle and Far East too. Any thought of building socialism in Britain would have been anathema to the USA, especially after the outbreak of the Cold War. It's pretty obvious if one thinks about it. Western Europe and NATO became the USA's front line against the Warsaw Pact. The USA would not allow socialism to get a real hold in Western Europe, hence the mixed economy mess. With the USSR being undermined (or appearing to be) in 1989, the gloves came off and the mixed bit went out the window via naked capitalism/privatization. Films like 'Wall Street' set the tone, supposedly depiction of all that is ugly about free-market capitalism, it soon became a model with hundreds of thousands wanting to get jobs in the Financial and Business Services sector!

Some think that the really big question is whether the West was just duped into destroying itself via the Berlin Wall coming down, Glasnost, Perestroika etc. Only time will tell.

brightyangthing [#75] I hope you don't live to regret your generosity, as it can function much like a drug of addiction.

Are you bothered, you ask. I'd say yes - but in a nice way.

Having said that, nice ways are misguided if they don't demonstably help, whilst criticism can be kind, precisely because it punishes what's actually causing one to self-harm.

#75

It's most heart-warming, Brightyanthing, to receive such appreciation from another female who hasn'r even met me. Another female 'awarded' me with a lovely comment on ice this morning while a few others offered appreciative smiles. These are are occasions and are treasured.

mim (^_^)

#75

"And this after you have stated

“.....any challenge to that you find very offensive.”

I am specifically referring to the correspondent between myself and mim on flickr and not on here. And its why I can no longer engage with her.

Mim has a significant medical problem which will almost always mean social contact other than superficial will be fraught yet she needs that contact for her well-being and therefore in my view it needs to be professional.

I'm answering mim not you. You don't interest me other than to point out the odiousness of your views.

Remember this from you:-

'why people enter high stress high profile jobs'

'if they cannot take being shouted at'

https://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1969602-2,00.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252571/Tragic-death-Channel-4-high-flier-How-To-Look-Good-Naked.html

Would suggest although I may be wrong some of mims problems may have started from bullying at work in a high stress job.

A mouse jumped on a bandwagon followed by a bear.
The bear sat on the mouse, making it half dead,
But nuns sent them both to hell

mim

I'm off to hospital to get drugged out of my pain and mind so wouldnt be able to answer anything at least for a few days.

CRUEL TO BE KIND
#79

Generosity of spirit is free and often pays unexpected dividends. Fortunately I do not have an addictive personality.

Bothered. OK. Concede that when cut I bleed, but I do not fester.

As for being nice vs criticism. Depends on the definitions you choose doesn’t it? And the nature and severity of the problem. One would apply a different remedy in a different manner to a child about to run in the road than you would an adult drinking to excess. But both messages, however tough could and should be delivered with tenderness.

One can, in most cases, offer protection and wise counsel without being deliberately hurtful or spiteful.

flicks [#81] "Would suggest although I may be wrong some of mims problems may have started from bullying at work in a high stress job."

It would appear that you did/do indeed mean well.

The evidence does suggest that we are born the way that we are and that whilst being put into unsuitable environments doesn't help matters (a bit like putting fish in milk), it doesn't explain/justify adjustment difficulties in the way that most people think.

The problem lies in assuming that any peg can fit in any hole, hence my remarks elsewhere, that much harm is done by people who mean well, but who don't know what they are doing, largely through not heeding what is at odds with their beliefs.

To correct this is why some of us go to school and university isn't it?

In the context of this election, people should try to see just how silly it is to ask most of the country how to go about running the show. After all, a good doctor doesn't ask you how to treat your problems, and neither does a good dentist...having said that way, it is going that way in some professions, including these, and yet sadly, not enough are batting their eyelids.