Tuesday 23 March 2010

imagine the screams from the Israeli ambassador if the nine year old boy shot dead by the Israeli army had been a Jew instead of just another troublesome Palestinian throwing rocks at a highly armed aggressor.....

NOT ROCKET SCIENCE - WITH OR WITHOUT A NUCULAR WARHEAD

So we are going to expel an Israeli diplomat? I bet THEY get to decide on the chosen one - it's in the blood!
I remember when professional wrestling was on UK telly. The tussle was impressive to the gullible. It was for us to watch - and for them to fix.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/03/fsa_biggestever_insidertrading.html

Wow about 10 years too late. Do let us know if they investigate HSBC for allowing the 'alleged' serious fraudster Nandan Pruthi to have sole trader business accounts and ruin many hundreds of lives if not a thousand with his alleged ponzi 'trading style'.

Interesting timing as well don't you think ?

What a complete waste of time expelling an Israeli Diplomat. There is NO proof of Israeli complicity in Dubai of the terrorist from Hamas.

...and this...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1260041/MP-Philip-Hollobone-quizzed-police-controversial-burkha-comments.html

wouldn't think we were in Britain...

...and finally some GOOD news

https://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Nazi-Hitman-Guilty-Heinrich-Boere-Convicted-Of-Killing-Three-Dutch-Civilians-Durning-World-War-II/Article/201003415580170?lpos=World_News_Second_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15580170_Nazi_Hitman_Guilty%3A_Heinrich_Boere_Convicted_Of_Killing_Three_Dutch_Civilians_Durning_World_War_II

A Nazi hitman aged 88 has FINALLY been given life for murders in WW2.

'The bill was unanimously opposed by the Republicans, who regard it as too costly and say they will repeal it.'

BBC report in Obama's Health Care signing.

The problem is, the USA's population is deteriorating. This means that the cost of healthcare can only increment in the future. The reason why the ratio of doctors to patients in Africa is so low is because this continent's healthcare needs are a direct function of its high birth rate and low low ability (as is the paucity of doctors).

Some will need to think about this, as one can not improve healthcare provision by lowering standards of healthcare training. One can only improve healthcare through effective population growth management, i.e through better Governance.

Behold the ideological zeal of Labour as shown by Byers and Hoon and company as they are when the mask is not presented!

Was the zeal for socialism or for social democracy? No it was for mammon.
So Michael Foot held that party together so that the pigs at the trough would have red rosettes and not blue.

It’s a tribal thing between the two main parties.

Labour rely on people who dutifully either vote Labour because their family always have or vote for them against the Tories on a class basis -though the class war is largely gone though social mobility has not improved.

But when Labour go the polls and say look at our record ....

Will we see Croquet Prescott, the champion of working people and banks, lead reporters around the unemployed homes of Hull? When asked whether he still feels Blair was right to admonish the FSA for wanting to investigate perfectly respectable banks will he see any evidence that there were in fact excellent reasons to do so or will he be like Arsene Wenger and see nothing?

Will Miliband cite how tough we are on human rights as when he criticizes Russia and China – and neglects to mention renditions and Binyam Mohammed?

Will Jack Straw, “the rat” as Barbara Castle used to call him, morph his position on Iraq yet again or will the fear of loose documents inhibit him?
Will Tony Blair meet up with Hans Blix and explain why he was right on Hussein and WMD all along – depending on which argument he deployed and how he did it?

Will Gordon Brown present himself as the economic messiah or the man who largely contributed to the weak regulation and excessive debt levels that nearly bust the global economy? This of course via “the unique global economic phenomenon” that was largely identical to the Wall St Crash but with the benefit of Keynsian doctrine that should see us escape on this occasion.

Will there be a 10p gaffe in the budget?

What measures has he put into place that will prevent such a calamity in the future and how can he square off the future actions with what was done in the past?

Will we see Damian McBride cited as the example of the faith that Labour has in the power of pure ideas? Perhaps we will see Alistair Campbell explain how he could see there was misunderstanding of the 45 minute claims in the famous Iraq War dossier but somehow never got around to correcting that misunderstanding. Perhaps a tear or two?

Meanwhile the Tories aren’t saying much because whilst they themselves are still not popular and have internal divisions in ideology they don’t possess too many profound practical ideas.

Yet should they bite the bullet on PR then they force Labour into a new land where it doesn’t take 44,000 votes for a Tory seat but probably 35,000 votes for a Labour one and failing parties are replaced.

Meanwhile any democratic party is better than the odious far right and the BNP.

You can read a lot into their constant sniping at Jews on this page and attempts to try and rehabilitate National Socialism via the back door without anybody asking too many questions. Holocaust what Holocaust they say?

Why should people take an interest in politics - because you might end up with the BNP if too many people disengage and democracy relies on public pressure to remain healthy.

So in my world that should equate to Labour being slaughtered on the basis of their record at the elections so that the next incumbents do not even contemplate loose rules that would allow sleaze.

But will it ....

On the subject of lobbying will we see new scrutiny of government positions?

Given the apparently unfounded Byers claims with regard to food labelling could it be that the tactics espoused by these political stalwarts has been used to influence the debate on alcohol?

I am sure a lot of crime and disorder – especially anti-social behaviour – is influenced by drink.

Equally drugs must be a huge problem and we have seen only backward steps from the government in terms of strategy and of course the mephedrone-drugs advisory fiasco.

Meanwhile did the new economic climate and government influence in the banking sector – we own a lot of it now – mean that we have improved our pressure on drugs money laundering? Not that I have heard. Of course the drugs arena is big business and without the money there will be less drugs sold.

Asbos may have had some effect on the symptoms but not the underlying causes.

I feel as though I am hitting somebody when they are down but Salford must be blighted with unemployment. I hardly think that the financial sector fiasco due to weak regulation helped indirectly - and I assume that police budgets will not be high in coming months and years due to the corresponding loss of revenue.

WE CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS? YES WE CAN!

Might it be that 'Next PM Brown' needs to put some clear blue water, full of SOCA gunboats, between himself and 'Light Touch' Chancellor Brown (no relation) whose 'Prudence' took him (and us) to the cleaners - as so many over-indulged fantasies do?

On the Dubai passports issue its sad that Israel can't see that whilst there are clear security concerns for them shooting people left, right and centre does not win them any friends and that also does not improve their security.

But then when you read this page and the frequent far right frothing at the mouth posts about Jews you can understand that they may have built up a siege mentality over the years. The racially motivated posts are always devoid of genuine facts and when you see the odd whacko proposing that the Holocaust was made up to put people off "statists" (National Socialists in reality) you can see how that would happen.

But the Israelis have to be above short term populist and emotional reactions and recognise that security lies in the search for peace and shooting protestors, terrorists and building illegal settlements does not help that process.

BEWARE GREEKS BEARING TIRED CHARISMA?

The Greek Tragedy that is Tony Blair, looks set to play out another torturous scene on the British stage. An age ago, we watched him morph from a dodgy looking youth (for all the world as if he has made some Faustian pact) into a clean-cut orator of milk-and-honeyed words. A New Day had dawned - had it not? But later, almost as if the debt were being called-in, this man who spoke of the voters' trust, saying: "I intend to repay that trust - I WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN" - made an even more devilish pact, and shrank (even as his wealth expanded) before our eyes, to a 'rat in the headlights' at Chilcot.

How, in the name of Mandelson, Campbell and Brown, will they EVER deploy this husk of a man as a vote-winner for Labour? Perhaps they have made ONE MORE PACT. God help us all.

will milliband close down mossad in the uk as Mrs Thatcher did?

what assurances do we have they will not do it again and again ...?

given the current regime doesn't even take any notice of the usa these days?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#4 Mistress76uk

'What a complete waste of time expelling an Israeli Diplomat. There is NO proof of Israeli complicity in Dubai of the terrorist from Hamas.'

---------------------------

Has anyone ever disappeared off with your passport for 20 minutes whilst on your travels abraod (i.e. specifically in Israel)?

Were you born yesterday?


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7506064/David-Miliband-Israeli-cloning-of-British-passports-was-intolerable.html

‘Members of the Israeli parliament likened the British government to “anti-Semitic dogs” and demanded the expulsion of Britain’s military attaché in Tel Aviv after erupting in fury over the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat in London.’
“I think the British are being hypocritical and I do not wish to insult dogs here, since some dogs show true loyalty [but] who gave the British the right to judge us on the war on terror?" said Arieh Eldad, a right-wing member of the Knesset.
The canine theme was taken up by a second MP, Michael Ben-Ari, who said: "Dogs are usually loyal, the British may be dogs, but they are not loyal to us. They seem to be loyal to the anti-Semitic establishment.
“We have learned that a dog must be called by its name. This is anti-Semitism disguised as anti-Zionism."

Note the tone of the response and the tactic used to attack the UK.

I have seen this tactic repeatedly used against a particular poster on this blog site. The phrase 'narcissistic rage' springs to mind.

Intersesting, dont you think?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Guessing we'll get a fair bit on David goes all Jason (Not David Jason as he has gone to the dark side. No, I mean Bourne) with The Miliband Directive for a while, but on matters domestic and trivial have to say that on R2's Jeremy Vine show today our esteemed Health Minister was on not to talk about his White Paper (it still a secret) or record (what 13 years? Future, future fair!), so dug a series of ever bigger holes & then climbed in.

Hearing Gordon's GOATs bested by normal working folk, and not sneaky stings by production companies, is a bit of a worry were it not so darn tragi-comic. The tragedy being folk still hoping their nearest and dearest might get treated or cared for (when the clown full well knew he and his crew haven't, can't and won't), and the comedy being even Mr. Vine straying close to the edge of credulity with what was being emoted.

It is evident to me (and presumably others?), from reading some posts to this blog, that some posters imagine things and yet confuse those de facto falsehoods (imaginings/fantasies) with the facts of what goes on in the world. In some of those posts, the things the authors assert are not even reported in the sources to which they appear to be referring. These posted inferences are examples of induction at best, which should, in principle, be open to falsification by evidence, if they are to be treated as rational posts by others.

Many of the posts to which I refer are clearly either just fabrications or public reports of the author's own 'mental' states. How are we readers to know what else these authors imagine, or what they might say, or otherwise do, on the basis of these falsehoods (which they both hold to be true, and yet are resistant to rational correction/challenge on the basis of evidence)?

15. DebtJuggler To be fair, there's a context to that remark which needs to be looked at closely. Still, it is remarkable nonetheless, given what the official UK position is.

I didn't understand Mistress76uk's point in post 4, so provided a link to a Guardian article entitled 'Why everything you've been told about evolution is wrong' asking what her views on Fodor's position were. It's not related to the issue at hand, but I can't make sense of Fodor either and neither could the author. I'm not sure how that post might have breached House Rules, and I'm sorry if it caused offence, but I'm genuinely puzzled, as it was just a straight question to see what she thought. I'm still puzzled by her post 4. Does she know something we don't? If so, please enlighten us.

The point about Narcissistic Rage is well made though. Some groups display this more than others.

Dear Mossad you can borrow my passport if you like, if it's for getting
rid of terrorists in this country, carry on with my blessing.

16. Jericoa 'It will blow over and the usual business of Geopolitical hedgemoney under the disguise of religion (of all kinds) will continue its quest to create world misery so a few people can be filthy rich and powerful (while still wondering why they are still unhappy and hence trying to get even richer and more powerful to fill the vacuum in their lives).

What strange creatures we are.'

Indeed. It will blow over, and what will we return to if not 'the usual business of Geopolitical hedgemoney'? (sic)

The point to grasp, surely, is that there are propositions (or stated facts about the world) which are true or false, and that these 9and their lawful relations) have nothing to do with petty alliances, beliefs or emotional responses? There is, however, great diversity between people as to how well they can discriminate and act accordingly.

Unless one accepts that is the case, and that some who can not do that very well, have to be managed by those who can, there can be/will be, no solutions to conflicts, except through deception/force.

No mention of hoon and co on the 6 o clock news.... Strange
22? Mp's on perks abroad, but you only mention a fox... StrAnge

friends of nulabour and political biarse. I have bought my last tv lic.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/banking/7505864/Could-this-end-free-banking.html

'It is understood that banks will be forced to market their basic bank accounts but it will be up to consumers to ask to open one. If a consumer is refused, they will be able to complain to an official watchdog, most likely to be the Financial Services Authority. '

The irony on this is something. Complain to the FSA? Crikey they allowed known major fraudsters to have banks accounts and ruin people. When you ask them if they are investigating, they say: 'we can neither confirm nor deny' Ask anyone who has had any correspondence with the FSA - its like talking to a polite brick wall that stinks of p** and desperately wants to frustrate you by making you wait in that hope you will do it down the phone for a fee of-course .

What person (with frankly very little) is going to want to pay the inevitable monthly bank charges because the bank cant make any money out of them ? Will Darling enforce a NO charge fee on the banks ? I doubt it. This is about scrapping the barrel for votes would they do this for the excluded if the delusion were still in full flow? would they hell. Remember 'no more boom and bust' hahaha

seems we have more proof over the passports than we did over invading iraq?

if liberman had no thoughts about ok-ing using uk passports what else have mossad being doing in the uk? Do we know yet who the traitors were in the home office justice department who leaked secret info to the israelis about that general being arrested on war crimes?

seems a bit odd to say the FO were frustrated with what little they could do to punish israel? or, given the FO rhetoric against iran, is it more the will was not there?

still Milliband did act to some degree.

I thought post 5 coming after post 4 was odd, unless it was a clever bit of irony shaped by PC fear?

Pop up politics ....

Doesn’t appear to be working very well, does it?

A suggestion to save on door knocking, shoe leather, outright begging and sweaty armpits due to desperation!

Offer the GBP ....

A generous consultancy fee!

Seriously ....

You have a pretty loyal, well informed - admittedly sometimes quirky - yet loyal ‘gallery’ of posters. You know, or could make a pretty good guess - after all you are sort of clever - as to what ‘ishooz’ they might be prepared to make a piece about?

Why not give it a go, after all it is the ....

British Broadcasting Corporation.

You never know it might even be more interesting than the regular bunch of Laureates, Playwrights, Authors, Celebrities and Nonentities that top up their salaries regularly....

And possibly ....

It could even make good television!


And .... Oh yes!

Lithuanian ‘Section 28’

He can’t airbrush that one!

And Top Con thinks he can handle the decision making at the very top!

Now he wants to do something about lobbying ....

Hypocrisy or what!

As said before ....

25 per cent of his ‘List of a thousand’ are former lobbyists!

15

the dogs idea.

milliband kept referring bringing countries 'to heel' in the iraq inquiry. maybe he now thinks that the much quoted friendship was just a mask and that israel now needs to be brought to heel?

the israeli bearing false witness and mistake is to call a nation represented by lions as 'dogs'?

since when is standing up for the human rights of british nationals 'anti semitic'? the logic then would be to be pro semitic you need to be anti british and anti human rights for british people? Is it through long practice of oppressions they now feel bold enough to seek to deprive us, through threats and bearing false witness, of our human rights? do they wish to make this island in their image a gaza with all its cursed crimes against humanity and injustice? Do they wish to make us cringing slaves afraid to stand up for human rights for all?

If someone is to end up eating dog food it can't be the British lion?

If you didnt already see this one

its for you barrie :- 0

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1260045/.html

@ DebtJuggler #15 - WHERE is the evidence? There is NO proof that Israel cloned ANY passports. And no, I was NOT born yesterday :p

BTW, in agreement with dAllan169@ #20 - I too would MORE than give my blessings IF either Shin Bet or Mossad wanted to clone my passport to kill terrorists who murder innocent people. However, since they are NOT in the habit of doing so, and nothing has been proven yet, they would not want to clone my passport. These are nothing more than false allegations.

27. jauntycyclist 'since when is standing up for the human rights of british nationals 'anti semitic'? the logic then would be to be pro semitic you need to be anti british and anti human rights for british people? Is it through long practice of oppressions they now feel bold enough to seek to deprive us, through threats and bearing false witness, of our human rights? do they wish to make this island in their image a gaza with all its cursed crimes against humanity and injustice? Do they wish to make us cringing slaves afraid to stand up for human rights for all?'

Our discussions elsewhere about language and behaviour discrimination matter. How do people discriminate between self and not self? What does this have to do with the immune system (MHC) and sex steroids? How do people differ in this respect, and why? Once one starts thinking about this in terms of behaviours and what accounts for it, some of the questions which you ask above may start to resolve (become more manageable) in a positive, non emotional, i.e helpful, way - and in the best interst of all concerned too. The first step is to be prepared to listen....

A point to note:

The British consulate in Jerusalem is staffed entirely by Palestinians who could easily have got hold of the passports held by Britons or dual citizens in Israel and used them for their own purpose.....

#19 Statist

I actually meant to say the "the phrases 'narcissistic rage' AND 'ad hominem' spring to mind!"....but forgot the latter phrase.

Let's be objective about it, a diplomatic expulsion means nothing in terms of preventing a particular type of behaviour in the future.

It's the equivalent of smacking a naughty teenager for being caught smoking...and then offering them a fag after you've made up with them.

Listening to Miliband on Radio 4 this afternoon....one had to admire his swagger and silky smooth shutzpah whilst being interviewed by Eddie Mair (no light weigth interviewer by the way).

The irnonic Radio4 comment though after the piece, was that tonight (Ron Proser advised on Radio4) is the night that the Israeli Embassy in London is celebrating it's newly renovated emabassy building....you get just one guess as to who was invited to be the guest of honour at this prestigious event this evening.....needless to say that said guest cancelled earlier today!

I honestly don't know why not many others just don't get it on here! (pls excuse my poor English). I must be either my IQ...or theirs!

I know, it's from The Sun, but..

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2903793/Radicals-deadly-booby-trap.html

Female suicide bombers now have explosives put into breast implants which can avoid detection...

#27 jauntycyclist

Good post!

...and I have to keep reminding myself that Israel is not a completely homogeneous society!

But boy...it's difficult.

CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Does anyone else think that the Dispatches sting/expose last night was all completely orchestrated? It was just all too perfect.

I mean Hoon's an ex QC for Christ's sake....how could he have fallen for such a cheap setup...especially after all that happened last year. Even my 14yo son wouldn't have fallen for that one.

I think we are just being set up 'to vote' for the next free-market-lovin' (liberal democratic) party to take the reins from the previous free-market-lovin' (liberal democratic) party.

They're all playing us like a fiddle......(geddit!)

29. Mistress76uk '... and nothing has been proven yet, they would not want to clone my passport. These are nothing more than false allegations.'

Hold on, how do you know they are false? Surely you have to accept that the Foreign Secretary (to whom MI6 as part of the FCO would report) has been provided with evidence, and it was that which resulted in the statement in Parliament at 15:30 today, and the diplomatic expulsion? Ministers don't have to provide their evidence to the public you know, but that doesn't mean that they don't have it. To disclose it might be deemed not in the interest of National Security or in the best interests of our relationship with Israel etc.

You are now writing in a way which makes one wonder whether you know how these things work.

GO1

Do you realise you are a very odd?

You seem fixated with the BNP and think that anyone who mentions anything about 20th century history or race must, ergo, be a BNP voter.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Mossad is rattled by the reaction in Whitehall, they usually expect a government response to be a tap on the wrist, a gentle rebuke and coded in diplomatic niceties but not this time..we are talking cloned passports here and that is an insult to the honour of our 'Brittanic Government' or whatever they put on our passports these days...no mention of the 1400 dead women and children in Gaza last year or even in todays statement in the House by Milliband not one reference to the nine year old shot dead by Israeli troops for 'throwing stones' To have Israel reprimanded is indeed 'progress'

The GO1 previously posted....

'The racially motivated posts are always devoid of genuine facts and when you see the odd whacko proposing that the Holocaust was made up to put people off "statists" (National Socialists in reality) you can see how that would happen.'

--------------------------

...but you have never posted once, a link, to anything to back up any statement you have ever made on this blogsite. You are guilty of your own accusations.

The only references you have ever made are to Channel 4's "Race and Intelligence" plus "The Incredible Human Journey" dumbed down TV programmes. Scientifically these were very lightweight programmes for technical idiots.

You never ever make any references to statistics or factual numbers.

Rhetoric is just that rhetoric. I have never known you once refer to a statistic directly. You do not and could never have come from a technical background. You do not have a scintilla of understanding or authority to question any of Statist's comments on this website.

Please note...'numbers don't lie'.

You just don't get it...you are unable to get it....so therefore just accept that you are not very bright!

On my screen, both 'statist' and 'debtjuggler' have suddenly begun to appear as 'you'.... even though they are not the same user/poster. Even when statist logs out, debtjuggler appears as 'you' .... Why?

Whats goin on haven't posted a thing today yet although several posts say " you " when they are nothing to do with me, look like statist's work ?

42

yes i too have lots of posts i haven't done labelled as you.

has the site been hacked?

@ Statist #36 - and how do YOU know they are not false?

Talking about "evidence" - remember the "45 minute claim?"

Note for the Mods - the "you" is coming up for "debtjuggler" even when I'm not logged in too.

30

these are your problems not mine. i am not having a row with the dictionary. you are. some people like to make out what they do is an 'elite' sport. which bit of self is that pandering to?

31

so all palestinians are disloyal?

suppose we extend that logic to the loyalty of other races working in government buildings? what happens?

34

just to be clear that was in response to

..Members of the Israeli parliament likened the British government to “anti-Semitic dogs”...

Normally when I open these pages, my posts appear under 'you'. Just now #15, 32, 34, 35, 37 & 40 appear with 'you'.

How is it with everybody else?

Just in case I'd like to stress that it was not me posting them.

mim

Hmm I dont know why my post 16 was removed and no news from the moderators as yet.

Even stranger my account seems to be corrupted now as 'debt jugglers' postings appear as 'you' on my screen...wierd.

Must be Mossad being their usual proactive selves to head off any percieved threat at the pass (they are way off base with me!!).

I am surprised Statist is still alive though, i guess they just dont take him seriously.

41. At 9:50pm on 23 Mar 2010, Statist wrote:

On my screen, both 'statist' and 'debtjuggler' have suddenly begun to appear as 'you'.... even though they are not the same user/poster. Even when statist logs out, debtjuggler appears as 'you' .... Why?

-----------------------

Just havin' a larf at a certain poster's expense....guess who? (not yours btw)

Ok...i'll change it back!

It was funny for a short while! ;o)

you

42. brossen99 'Whats goin on haven't posted a thing today yet although several posts say " you " when they are nothing to do with me, look like statist's work ?'

It looks like the BBC or their outsourced company is having British identity theft problems?

ha, ha!

re: you

Sorry all...I've had a couple of glasses of wine.

I promise to behave from now on!

45. jauntycyclist 'these are your problems not mine. i am not having a row with the dictionary. you are. some people like to make out what they do is an 'elite' sport. which bit of self is that pandering to?'

No, these are your personal problems. I am telling you how philosophy is taught, i.e. how things are done. You are merely making things up idiosyncratically. Language is a social tool, so are these disciplines. You can't go it alone, at least, not without having done your apprenticeship first. It is a cumulative business, and it is a collective business. If you fail to understand and respect this, nobody will hear you as nobody will be able to tell what you are talking about. Read some Skinner and Wittgenstein on this, i.e on The Private Language Argument, and The Reinforcing Verbal Community. The advantage I have over you here is that I know what I am talking about. Do you?

49. Jericoa 'I am surprised Statist is still alive though, i guess they just dont take him seriously.'

Who? Whoever you are referring to, they should take what's posted seriously, as it's factual. Haven't you learned that yet? It wouldn't cease being true if I ceased to exist either. That's something else that you evidently need to grasp, or are you (like a few others here) a metaphysical solipsist who believes that reality is merely a mental construction? It isn't, and what is true has nothing to do with the person writing it. That's the delusion of narcissists/celebritists which has been wrecking so much for so long.

45. jauntycyclist 'which bit of self is that pandering to?'

You clearly don't understand what I have been explaining to you. There is science out there.

Self/non-self - it's how the immune system works, and what controls it (histocompatibility) is in part of chromosome 6 (hence the reference to the MHC). I was referring to something which some groups differ in prevalence over, i.e their responses to fight/flight and the sex steroids (e.g. cortisol etc). I suggest you look up CYP21 and 21-OHD instead of thinking about 'the good' etc. What I'm talking about here can be measured, but you are not picking up on cues. Leave your metaphysics behind and focus on biophysics instead! We have moved on.

serious now!

Re 30 Statist
27. jauntycyclist

-----------------

Sorry chaps/chapesses,

I feel obliged to step in here!

Jaunty...I think you are very bright (read many of your posts from bookhimdanno days etc).

However....I think Statist is also very bright...probably the brightest poster on the BBC blogsite.

I'm an engineer by profession....don't profess to be too bright, but bright enough to understand most of what you both post.

You think you have to think of Statist as a bit of a 'Spock' like person...i.e. totally logically predisposed in thought and argument (sorry, no offence Statist...but I believe you are just very bright...probably the brightest in fact!..PS - I'm not bottom licking as I don't know who you are....take note mim!)
I can only judge you both by what you write.

BTW, I like to think of engineers as technically oriented, but not to the detriment of their arts/english language side. i.e. well rounded.

What many of Statist's posts about (english) language allude to is that the english language is not very accurate in terms of truth logic. One has to think of computer type languages to be able to absolutely define a specific message/communication instruction (btw I have studied/used computer languages). There is no room for ambiguity in most/all computer languages. In other words Statist says don't judge politicians by what thet say...becuase they can't be pinned down on this using SIMPLE english language.....THEREFORE WE CAN ONLY JUDGE THEM BY THEIR STATED POLICIES .....AND THEIR POLICY OUTCOMES.....I.E. THEIR RESULTS.

When you start doing this...what you observe and conclude is truely astounding and yet totally disappointing, but perversely, totally understandable.

Just as an aside, I suspect Statist's IQ is probably >140.

Mine, when I last took a test, was around, 123-125.

Some people are just very intelligent (I don't count myself in this group). Don't get angry with them. Just try to understand them.

Oh well, I've tried my best!

BTW, I congratulate the BBC for the TV airing the of the Chinese Govt reresentative re the Google story. 'They' are not evil and they are not aliens!

'They' are human beings and I have been fortunate to work with a few of them.

Have just been watching Newsnight and report about MPs leaving office for lucrative jobs outside. There is a reference to Andy Ingram who is now being "renumerated" in his new job at £175,000 pa. Why on earth is it that the BBC doesn't know that the correct word is "remunerate". I've now listened to Winifred Robinson on her lunchtime spot, and even that supposed economics guru Evan Davis on the Radio 4 morning programme amazingly incorrectly refer to "renumeration". Can someone please put a notice up informing your presenters what the correct word is!

One for the connoisseur...

From todays PM Radio 4 programme

BBC3 Controller, Danny Cohen, defends the right of having, a movie celebrity, Lindsay Lohan presenting a serious programme about human trafficking...

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rd90l
https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00rd90l

Danny Cohen starts speaking at 50:38 mins into the program.

Spot the consistency with the oft mentioned celebrity culure on this website!

Eddie Mair turns Mr. Cohen inside out!

'SPARTACUS' WOULD HAVE BEEN FUNNIER (#54)

Then we could all play DJ.

:o) The creme de la creme of lines tonight by Jeremy "the Abbott and Costello of current affairs, Michael Crick and Paul Mason." Ha ha ha ha ha!! And we even ran out of time on Michael's graphics :p

Excellent discussion by Jeremy with Brigadier General Elran & Menzies Campbell, and a very moving report on the Gaffneys' in Salford. At least two of her three children from 13 years ago have turned out well. I was shocked to see that the social services could not even be bothered to help her son Zac even though he was suffering from ADHD+. It may well have turned her son's life around.

AS NARCISSISM SEEMS TO BE A COMMON CURRENCY ON THE BLOG,

I suggest all intrigued posters look up a list of characteristics of narcissism. It is both astonishing and illuminating.

EXPERTLY COPIED CHINESE PROVERB (#58)

Those who carry light in front of face and can't stop admiring, only see brightness of own light. Fall down lot of holes.

"wouldn't think we were in Britain..."
would you much prfer incitement to racial hatred, just because a person chooses to wear a certain type of clothing?

"On the subject of lobbying will we see new scrutiny of government positions?"
do you really think that the influence of the friends of israel would be under scrutiny, for goodness sakes the government cant even bring itself to condemn israels apparent state terrorism that extended to the extrajudicial murder of a palestinian.

"But the Israelis have to be above short term populist and emotional reactions and recognise that security lies in the search for peace and shooting protestors, terrorists and building illegal settlements does not help that process."
interesting that you avoid the use of terrorism of the state, or do you believe that no such thing exists?

"given the current regime doesn't even take any notice of the usa these days?"
dont believe a word of it - if israel decides to attack iran - we, the usa can claim that israel acted as a 'rogue state' .. but that we nontheless have to protect it from iranian threats.

"Dear Mossad you can borrow my passport if you like, if it's for getting
rid of terrorists in this country, carry on with my blessing."
do you think political commentators are afraid of stating the facts in case mossad come knocking at the door?

"still Milliband did act to some degree"
he's not the best actor.

"WHERE is the evidence? There is NO proof that Israel cloned ANY passports. And no, I was NOT born yesterday"
yes its true, there doesnt appear to be any cloning involved, real passports with real names but false pictures. maybe if you were born yesterday you'd see that israel has 'previous'.

"Female suicide bombers now have explosives put into breast implants which can avoid detection..."
from the sun you say? must be true then.

"Does anyone else think that the Dispatches sting/expose last night was all completely orchestrated? It was just all too perfect."
even the hapless tories in the majority figured it out. abuse of this kind is not new to the ears, so why is it now.

"no mention of the 1400 dead women and children in Gaza last year or even in todays statement in the House by Milliband not one reference to the nine year old shot dead by Israeli troops for 'throwing stones' To have Israel reprimanded is indeed 'progress'"
but time enough to condone israels wish to have irans (non military) nuclear programme finished.

#58

Interesting, DebtJuggler, it's not how I see statist at all. He's obsessively repetitive and full of self-importance accusing people of his own failings. Not only do I not think much of his intellect but also see him as an extremely dehumanised and dry sort of person feeding on human misery.

mim

44. Mistress76uk 'Talking about "evidence" - remember the "45 minute claim?"'

I asked you how you knew they were false allegations.

I'd also like to know what you think a terrorist is. If someone tells you that some foreign politician is a terrorist do you think they are, and do you think this justifies their being murdered?

Finally, do you understand that Hamas is a legitimate, democratically elected Government?

66. mimpromptu 'it's not how I see statist at all.'

Regardless of who is right, do you realise that you are describing what you think/believe, and not necessarily how the world is or others are? Do you understand the difference? It's important to know that there might be a difference in order to see one if it's there.

I ask you again, do you have any beliefs which are currently false? Another way of looking at that question is for you to ask yourself if you have ever been wrong? Or, yet another way, is to ask yourself if you have ever learned anything?

Do you understand? This is not a personal attack. Nor is it me being unkind to you. On the contrary. It is an effort to encourage you to think self-critically as any person who received a higher education a couple of decades ago will recognise.

#68

Yes, I was wrong, gravely, about 2 of my tutors from SSEES, the University of London, with whom I do not want to have anything to do any more as they've turned out to be below my intellectual, social, and human expectations.

Besides, you keep asking me all those questions. How about directing them at yourself?

Have I learned anything? Yes, lots! In the last few months from Jeremy Paxman and Alain de Botton, for example. From quite a few Journalists on Newsnight. From Stephen Richards at one of the Media Society events at the Groucho Club. From a couple of Lawyers who I had the privilege to see and listen to in Harwood Stephensons Chambers the other day. From Peter York's book 'Dictators' Homes', as well as numerous interesting people that I meet here and there, including Queen's Ice Rink. They may not be famous but they too have very intelligent things to say.

So it looks like the Camerons are in some way a Royal Couple, with David being a direct descendant of William IV while Samantha of Charles II.

mim

@ Statist # 67 - Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Article 7 of the Hamas Charter states: "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!

...and incidently, Hitler was ELECTED to power too. Would you have classed that as "a legitimate, democratically elected Government?"

#71

Mistress76uk

From the way statist writes one could assume that he is a terrorist himself. I have written to all kinds of people in high places about him so hopefully one day he will be stopped or, in fact, he himself may not be able to stand the pressure he's putting himself under and will either completely go bonkers to the point of incapacitating himself or may decide to finish his days the way Hitler did.

#67 Statist.... I'd also like to know what you think a terrorist is Impossible to answer I would think Stat.


"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

Walter Laqueur?

#73

Ecolizzy

Although I appreciate that in war like situations when one has to kill in self-defence, my preferred option as a freedom fighter, and yes, I am considering myself as one of them, is to use peaceful means. That can include, however, very harsh words or a very strong physical reaction, including slamming doors and punching the air with my fists. Those who do not understand what I am about and try to restrict my freedom have to fall by the way side and by that time I do not even feel sorry for them. I'm able to be totally pitiless!

A close relationship for me has to be based on mutual respect and a feeling of equality in terms of what's the most basic and highest at the human/humane level.

mim

mim

71. Mistress76uk '@ Statist # 67 - Hamas is a terrorist organisation.'

No, some countries class it so, some do not, Britain for example only classes some of its military sections so, but that does not legitimise international assassinations. Many countries do not class Hamas as a terrorist organisation (see how the UNSC votes?). Those which do are allies of Israel. But there is a problem here. If there is a conflict between Israel and Palestine, and Hamas is the legitimate Government of Palestine, it is facile for its enemies to declare it a 'terrorist organisation', or that those who support are de facto state sponsors of 'terrorism'.

If one can't/won't see this, one will find it very hard to rationally grasp what is going on in the UN in pursuit of peace in the Middle East, and one will not see the risks of the UK and US populations being roped in (seduced or blackmailed) inti acting on behalf of Israel's interests (or in some cases, the Palestinians).

'Article 7 of the Hamas Charter states: "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!'

Anything which incites Muslims (or anyone else) to kill Jews is obviously to be proscribed as criminal behaviour. But this is controversial.

'The charter's current status within Hamas is unclear. For example, Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy of the political bureau of Hamas, in 2007 described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988. Marzook added that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the US Constitution engaged in codifying slavery. Senior British diplomat and former British ambassador to the UN Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". Greenstock also stated that Hamas is not intent on the destruction of Israel.

Wikipedia on Hamas Charter.

'...and incidentally, Hitler was ELECTED to power too. Would you have classed that as "a legitimate, democratically elected Government?"'

Of course it was. Why do you think otherwise? Germany from the 1920s onwards was fighting economic and social anarchism. This is something which people across the liberal-democracies are again grappling with today. It concerns me that many of those who are anti-anarchism are in fact branded 'terrorists'. Does this not concern you? Can you see how some proper through economic anarchism (deregulation and market manipulation and volatility)?

As I see it, one can't rationally class a political system which is not one's own (or which has objectives at odds with one's own), as 'terrorist' or go about calling it names/vilifying it with black propaganda. True, that is what happens, but that does not make it right or rational or true - it's a formula for instability and abuse, and its why some countries e.g. China (like the former USSR), run democracy very differently. neo-liberalism foments and sustains conflict. See Middle East.

So immigration and the muslim religion isn't changing our culture to one of the middle and far east?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7906543.stm

72. mimpromptu 'From the way statist writes one could assume that he is a terrorist himself. I have written to all kinds of people in high places about him so hopefully one day he will be stopped or, in fact, he himself may not be able to stand the pressure he's putting himself under and will either completely go bonkers to the point of incapacitating himself or may decide to finish his days the way Hitler did.'

I request you read my post 68 again, but more carefully. Try to be self-critical whilst you do so rather than the opposite, i.e defensive. Then read my reply to Mistress76uk at 75, as in my view, you risk making yourself vulnerable to the forces of fashion and celebritism which cynically exploit human (especially female) frailty/narcisisism under the lure of freedom and choice (invariably for gain, usually, ultimately financial).

Some people don't see when they're being abused. :-(

76. ecolizzy 'So immigration and the muslim religion isn't changing our culture to one of the middle and far east?'

Of course it is. Some areas of London are now massively South Asian and other BME groups with White British a small minority in the low age groups. The shops clearly reflect market demand for produce. That's democracy. The problem (if there is a problem) is the White British low birth rate. It's known as the demographic-transition in demography. Politicians have just been trying to cope with it, as the cost would, without mass immigration, be even more dire socioeconomically. Just think how many schools would be closing for a start. Then think about how the ageing population would be serviced by a declining birth rate. This is the price of female liberation ecolizzy. It's as simple as that.
if you look at the Muslims, they do not liberate their females. Even here. Designating them fascists etc is ironic when you think about it. Most folk won't. They will see half the problem only. They will want their cake and eat it. We need to start talking beyond the unpalatable and obvious I suggest, even here.

Some problems are hard.....:-(

75. 'Can you see how some prosper through economic anarchism' (follow link to FSA)

THE PETTINESS OF GODLY REQUIREMENTS PASSETH ALL UNDERSTANDING (#76link)

Not content with a plethora of headgear, daggers in diverse places, and a mixed bag of prohibitions and prescriptions, the God of Abraham - in one of his sub-divisions - will not allow alcohol in cleaning preparations for animal husbandry, of the Halal persuasion.

Know they not that Mother Nature has decreed an abundance of alcohol, because the ubiquitous starch of the fields and forests, breaks down in to alcohols, as one of her many NATURAL cycles? Verily, I say unto you, the makers-up of religious dogma are as the cowpats in the lane - needing a careful tread, if one is to reamain uncontaminated.

55

Wittgenstein is merely austic or shell shocked. if he [and you] read proclus commentary on parmenides you won't have your language problems.

how philosophy is taught? where? in the dead universities where they regard it as an elite sport only fit for a few intellectuals who constantly back bite each other?

73. ecolizzy After their meeting, Meshal praised Moscow's position to promote his group's stance in relations with Israel. "It's enough that Moscow tells the world that Hamas is a movement of freedom fighters, not a terrorist group," he told journalists. The U.S. and the European Union list Hamas as a terrorist group.

Haaretz 8th February 2010

If one can't have rational discussion here, where can one find it?

58

yes reductionists like to reduce everything. so in language they want to reduce it to a computer language. which means in their universe there is no place for the 4 candles sketch or shakespeare. so in that dictionary there cannot be more than one 'result' for a term.

i have written computer programmes so i know what you face when you try to define even simple things. but that is a limited world. so incomplete. thus a mistake to think its the only world or even the preferred world.

one does not usually win a woman's heart by computer language :)

anyone who chooses other than the good as the highest term is choosing something less than good.

but i'm sure the reductionist lectures will continue :)

80. barriesingleton 'Know they not that Mother Nature has decreed an abundance of alcohol, because the ubiquitous starch of the fields and forests, breaks down in to alcohols, as one of her many NATURAL cycles? Verily, I say unto you, the makers-up of religious dogma are as the cowpats in the lane - needing a careful tread, if one is to reamain uncontaminated.' (sic)

Get thou yonder son of Satan. Lead not his flock into temptation, for that be the thorny Faustian way to Mortgage Backed Securities, Credit Default Swaps, and predatory lending rather tahn to Behaviourism! ;-)

81. jauntycyclist 'in the dead universities'

How can a university be 'dead'? You may as well say 'smelly'! (Or just do a Mistress76uk raspberry!)

Try to grasp what you are being told, and preferably not by some latter day mystic mired in Greek antiquity ;-).

Language is a class of physical (verbal) behaviour. That's why we now have speech-to-text translation built into TVs/broadcaster systems for subtitles (some of which does as badly as some readers do here mind, but hey, c'est la vie et les 'neural-nets'...;-)).

81. jauntycyclist 'Wittgenstein is merely austic or shell shocked.'

This is what happens when one expands higher education. Logicians and engineers get name called 'austic'. Note how logicians, engineers etc are predominantly male? Note how the dominant forces are currently feminizing? Did you look up CYP21? See NYC too.

it is not surprising women do not know what turns boys into men so mis-identify it as fighting or similar.

what turns a child into an adult is freely choosing to use their power for good. the evidence is lots never make that choice.

#77

I've made my choices, stat, and am happy with them so please stop worrying yourself about my future. Needless to say you're not included in it. I'm a mature woman, don't forget.

83. jauntycyclist 'yes reductionists like to reduce everything. so in language they want to reduce it to a computer language. which means in their universe there is no place for the 4 candles sketch or shakespeare. so in that dictionary there cannot be more than one 'result' for a term.'

Read the last third of 'Two Dogmas of Empiricism' on reductionism very carefully. It is widely misunderstood for not being read carefully. You can not think outside of a language. You need to grasp that to start.

'i have written computer programmes so i know what you face when you try to define even simple things. but that is a limited world.'

That is the limit of your and everyone else's world of communication. Think about that.

'so incomplete.'

You should think on that too. 'That whereof one can not speak..' Science is an unended quest via empirical research to improve the prediction and control of our sensory surfaces. It has criteria, pragmatic criteria whereby past truth are repaced by more useful ones. Take note.

'thus a mistake to think its the only world or even the preferred world.'

You have inferred this. That is what other errant posters here do. That way lies the creative madness of induction.

'one does not usually win a woman's heart by computer language :)'

See Mandelson.

'anyone who chooses other than the good as the highest term is choosing something less than good.'

That is gibberish. You don't know what you are talking about. That is not an insult. It is a factual statement.

'but i'm sure the reductionist lectures will continue :)'

Only because you don't learn from those who know better than you. In the end, they will give up on you, and you'll be alone like that guru who's lost in antiquity. His ilk belongs on 'Bellamy's Britain'.

#78 So do you, by implication Stat, see the extinction of the european race? If we are not having enough children to replace ourselves, and incomers are having large families, how long before we are gone as a distinct race and culture?

Personally I reckon about 50 to 75 years.

88. mimpromptu 'I've made my choices, stat, and am happy with them'

I think you are mistaken as that's not what you have led many to believe. Why is that do you think?

You seem to play it both ways. If you are content, that's great. Nobody should wish it otherwise, I certainly don't. But may I request that you cut out being offensive/poisonous? By all means be constructively critical of content, as that's healthy and condusive to learning. The other is not.

PS. It's 'statist'.

87. jauntycyclist 'what turns a child into an adult is freely choosing to use their power for good. the evidence is lots never make that choice.'

No, it's genetic expression/maturation. There is diversity to this, which has to be recognized for what it is and responsibly managed. For some, development gets arrested, which has consequences in that though some are technically classed as adult, they continue to behave as children. See last night's Salford re-visit.

This has nothing to do with 'the good'. You have a prejudice. Much else that you write here, is, however, 'good'. ;-)

90. ecolizzy '#78 So do you, by implication Stat, see the extinction of the european race? If we are not having enough children to replace ourselves, and incomers are having large families, how long before we are gone as a distinct race and culture?

Personally I reckon about 50 to 75 years.'

Well, the demography says that with a birth rate of 1.1 a population halves in 30 years and at 1.3 in 60 (but ine has to bear lonevity and healthcare making a population hide this by ageing). So it will take a lot longer than you suggest at the current rate, and that's one of the reasons why people don't care. What it highlights though is why, perhaps, women have been 'oppressed' throughout history and why it is dangerous to meddle with nature. It may explain why females are a) shorter, b) less muscular, and c) on average, less smart tnan males, in that all of that made it easier to curtail their freedoms. Inequalities are not necessarily a 'bad' thing. Children, for example, fall into the same three classes above relative to adults, and few sane people say that's a 'bad' thing.

That will sort out the rational thinkers from the emoters here I reckon.

PS. Some won't have thought about this at all, or expect to see it aired here. I have long thought that forums like this are better places for such matters than professional journals.

has Mossad hacked into NN sites? Haven't heard from Leftieoddbod in ages......

THE BLOG HAS COME ALIVE!

I just caught up. What an exhilarating read!

Where does 'Fuzzy Logic' belong in all this? Was it not devised to improve the human - computer interface?

(Steps back to a safe distance.)

A NEW JERUSALEM OR JUST A NEW PALESTINE? (#90)

I think England's 'Green and Pleasant' might become divided, after a cross between civil war and super-riots. Non-Frat areas (ghettoes) even dedicated highways (like West Bank) and LOTS AND LOTS of military police.

Hip hip - Halal!

92

ah the old 'man as machine' deterministic model

if criminality is 'genetic' and nothing to do with the power of choice then it is unjust to blame them?

this is behind the excuses for bad behaviour we currently have. we shall call it syndrome of this and that and say criminals are 'victims'.

how genetic reductionists hate the words responsibility and good. as if they did not exist. which is why they create a society where there is neither responsibility nor good.

90. At 12:28pm on 24 Mar 2010, ecolizzy wrote:
#78 So do you, by implication Stat, see the extinction of the european race? If we are not having enough children to replace ourselves, and incomers are having large families, how long before we are gone as a distinct race and culture?

Personally I reckon about 50 to 75 years.

-------------------------------

The same is happening in Japan.

Their birth rate has plummeted.

Japan also has a closed society i.e. they have an extremely tight immigration policy. Their population is diminishing.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6222257.stm

'But the health ministry expects the rate to fall this year and continue a downward trend that may see a 30% drop in the population in the next 50 years.'



Population: The elephant in the room
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7865332.stm

95. barriesingleton 'Where does 'Fuzzy Logic' belong in all this? Was it not devised to improve the human - computer interface?'

It doesn't. Zadeh's 'logic' is not logic at all. Logic is binary. probability is something higher. For 'improved interface' read 'design computers and software to do more of the work and keep stupid humans from hitting the wrong buttons etc'.

97. jauntycyclist 'ah the old 'man as machine' deterministic model'

Which is pretty much all of modern science!

'if criminality is 'genetic' and nothing to do with the power of choice then it is unjust to blame them?'

That's pretty much what everyone managing offenders effectively operates by, else what can be done? You may need to think about that.

'this is behind the excuses for bad behaviour we currently have.'

No, it's behind the management of behaviour through selective targeting PPOs (young) and diversion.

'we shall call it syndrome of this and that and say criminals are 'victims'.'

No, You are (arrogantly) not paying attention. What exactly would you do? Talk to their better natures in the interest of their own 'good'? Do you seriously think some have not tried that nonsense and abandoned it because it didn't work? See Martinson in the 1970s.

'how genetic reductionists hate the words responsibility and good. as if they did not exist. which is why they create a society where there is neither responsibility nor good.'

But you have no experience in these matters. Nor will you be instructed.

What does that make you?

99. jauntcyclist - Note: I'm telling you what is done driven by empirical evidence of what works and what doe snot.

What do you base what you write upon? Is it fundamentally any different to what pops into Mimpromptu's (etc) head? Liberals tend to fall in love with nice sounding/looking 'ideas' (sentences) that they hear or read. Realists/behaviourists go by what the evidence actually shows and let that dictate/shape what they hold true and false, not words alone. The former is relatively easy and just requires good verbal skills, but is generally just academic and lacks data. The evidence based/driven approach is painstakingly hard work.

Paradoxically, you should listen and learn - really.