Friday 19 March 2010

not long ago the anglican church could have gone bankrupt over child sex cases in the overseas schools. the monarch is the head of the anglican church. so it wasn't 'bigged up' by the uk media.

One can't help wondering whether there is something institutionally wrong in the Catholic Church. This is going beyond coincidence.

Pope Benedict has written a pastoral letter to the Catholics of Ireland with guidelines on preventing and punishing sexual abuse of children by priests.

Just for balance Newsnight/BBC, where are the investigations into whether any Rabbis, Imams (now tha would really set the cat amongst the pigeons), and CofE clergy doing this? How frequent is this behaviour amongst any of them? Is it ever more common here than amongst non-religious officials?

Why the focus on (bias against) Catholics? Is it because in Ireland, and elsewhere, Catholicism and statism were closely associated, and they are likely not to make claims of antiSemitism or issue a fatwa?

How much of this anti-Catholicism is tied up with the devolution issue?

One might equally ask what will become of Newsnight now that it has developed an unhealthy obsession with paedophjilia.

DELIBERATE CELIBACY IS NOT 'WHAT NATURE WOULD DO'

Hence Catholicism (which is ironically also against contraception) invites a very unnatural subset of males to the priesthood of whom, some are seriously aberrant.

But just as the MP allowances furore is an unwise diversion from the core problem that is the ENDURING Westminster Ethos, so aberrant priests are an unwise diversion from DOGMA-BASED RELIGION ITSELF.

Poignant that The Jews featured on the previous thread for their interest in LEADERSHIP rather than INTEGRATION; the latter being the wisest behaviour for a minority group.

But the answer is not the Church of Dawkins. It lies in the potential ability to rise above the juvenile/visceral certainty of some 'great power out there' (in my view, formulated in the period immediately after birth) and optimise individual competence.

Acknowledge and accommodate the Ape. Optimise the 'human' through philosophy and psychology. Promote wisdom. If behaviour-boundaries do not arise spontaneously from such endeavour, I'll eat my ego.

2

any place can be infiltrated by those who choose to use their power for their own ends. non catholic places have been infiltrated? including state care homes? and the police?

anywhere that has polices of secrecy like religious groups or the state [is there a difference these days?] are more likely to perpetuate the abuse?

ROWAN WILLIAMS HAS THE SOLUTION (#2)

Say after me with aplomb: "Difficult! Difficult!"

Works every time!

If we are being utterly politically correct, then ALL religions should be banned and we should have a one child policy like China. It would not be discriminatory against one religion, and it would also keep the population at a sustainable level.......

2. baytrees 'One can't help wondering whether there is something institutionally wrong in the Catholic Church. This is going beyond coincidence.'

Hmmm looks like it's working then eh?.... ;-)

The apologies from the Catholic Church only really cut it to an outsider if its clear that they are also trying to expose and prevent any other similar problems in other dioceses - and the impression you get is they are not.

The Susuan Watts report on the absolutely mind boggling scandal of the haemophiliacs who were infected with all kinds of shocking things is scandalous.

You can't help but feel that there has been concerted and ongoing moves to cover this up (I seem to recall Lord Owen being mystified about how all of the state paperwork had disappeared) and the fact that no senior political figures are picking this up from the government side. I assume also that the US side aren't being too helpful.

But the tragedy at the end is the total blight that there has been on so many people who have been effectively murdered and then been further abused by their treatment from the state.

We need to see justice for these people.

Did Damian McBride ever go before that HoC committee? Will it happen before the election?

Probably not.

#3 statist

"Just for balance Newsnight/BBC, where are the investigations into whether any Rabbis, Imams (now tha would really set the cat amongst the pigeons), and CofE clergy doing this? How frequent is this behaviour amongst any of them? Is it ever more common here than amongst non-religious officials? "

I think you will find that the Catholic church would not be overjoyed these days at receiving support from National Socialist types.

They are sensitive about the Catholic acquiescence with the fascists who murdered so many in Spain and of course did far worse later in Europe.

On the other hand the BNP and the far right have always numbered a disproportionately large number of paedophiles. Think of the Newsnight report on the Spanish Civil War exhumations and the fascist child molesting priests. Think of the odious wannabe far right nail bomber who was actually caught with large amounts of paedophile literature. There have been paedophile convictions for this amongst BNP members - along with a much wider array of convictions of course.

But I think the expertise people seek is in prevention rather than knowledge of paedophilia.

If there are other insitutions who are hiding paedophilia then they should be exposed - and I am sure there is the will in the UK to do that.

A good piece last night and well balanced. The over-riding thing I will remember is the clear problem of a child having such instability by way of so many foster parents.

They were fine young people who deserve a chance.

Statist @ #3 - You've hit the nail on the head!

(Unofficial) Beijing Bulletin 19032010/02: Liberal-Democracy is politically incorrect!

(Please note: can easily be printed out on cheap printers made in PRC and readily glued onto bumpers, and White Goods, TVs etc made in PRC).

6. barriesingleton 'Hence Catholicism (which is ironically also against contraception) invites a very unnatural subset of males to the priesthood of whom, some are seriously aberrant.'

But isn't it the case that 'some' is just 'not all'? Isn't 'some' just 'at least one' in fact? I know you like your words barriesingleton, but how is your maths and logic? Does that matter or are you writing poetry/prose?

'It lies in the potential ability to rise above the juvenile/visceral certainty of some 'great power out there' (in my view, formulated in the period immediately after birth) and optimise individual competence.'

Yes, some mature with less impediments than others, but this appears to be a physical process. Your rhetoric might enourage some to mistakenly think that it's within people's gift to lift themselves up.... but is it? Do you know of any evidence for that romantic notion? I don't.

In the absence of that, how do you differ from 'Rev Blair' exactly, apart from him having had political power, and you not? Cruel or kind? ;-)

16. Mistress76uk 'You've hit the nail on the head!'

As MaggieL implies in post 5, Newsnight is slipping. The attribution (inductive) errors are a sad sign of our feminized times I suggest. Another term for attribution/induction is conditioning. One needs good data (and methods) to guard against its biases.

it is not natural for a man of faith not to have a relationship with a woman, they suppress natural feelings and this can turn into abuse and because they have positions of power they can exploit children. The whole thing is so deplorable and despicable that here we are in the 21st century and we are still deciding whether or not to prosecute these pervert priests. Bishops who spirit them away to different parishes are just as culpable, they should all be prosecuted and given hefty terms of imprisonment....

Rabbis go in for drug smuggling, illegal organ trading, brothel keeping/attending and people smuggling.
If you allow the publication of the accusations made by thegangofone in 14 then the moderators cannot refuse publication of this statement. After all, there's been plenty of evidence presented to various law courts and numerous newspaper account to support it.

#6

Barriesingleton

You've making recently some positive 'noises'. It is within people's gift to lift themselves up. I've doing just that this afternoon with Piaf's 'Padam' and 'La Vie en Rose', Cohen's 'lLight as the Breeze' and Jeremiah Clarke's 'Chorals' and 'Trumpet Voluntary' amongst others.

FROM THE FLOOR. (#18)

"Do you know of any evidence for that romantic notion? I don't."

All who do NOT worship at the 'Shrine of Quine', are able to access the ample evidence for a reality that you, conversely, must vehemently deny. Thus, for them, as if by magic, their evidence sheds any 'romantic' attribution, dogmatically attached by the faithful.

As for you reference to what you don't know (or can't accept because of your exclusive posture) much is self-evident in your posts. However, you are surrounded by good hearts here, all of whom appreciate your wide scholarship and access to quality reference material. However, we all have our blind spots. Persevere!

20. stevie See how they get you to undermine the state? It's venal. Many doing it don't realise how they're being abused. They are termed 'useful idiots'. See The Frankfurt School, Marcuse, Adorno and Gramsci, Lukacs etc. If you think this all too clever, don't kid yourself. There was a time, not too many decades ago, when only 5-10% of people went on to university, and more of them grasped the devious ways of (what in fact is the right-wing free-market anarchism) which is known as Trotskyism.

22. mimpromptu 'It is within people's gift to lift themselves up. I've doing just that this afternoon with Piaf's 'Padam' and 'La Vie en Rose', Cohen's 'lLight as the Breeze' and Jeremiah Clarke's 'Chorals' and 'Trumpet Voluntary' amongst others.'

You appear to have a language (or is it learning) problem?

That may be fine for you. Others do the above via extreme eating, throwing themselves off bridges attached to bungee ropes, sky-diving, drinking, taking drugs, cutting themselves etc. All of that patches into one's natural push-pull monoamine/opioid systems which mediate moods subserving sex etc. What's at issue here are individual differences in how these core regulatory systems normally operate, how to best to manage people when their behaviours are outside the socially acceptable norm (acceptable in the best interests of all concerned).

Normal language is generally far too vague for such detailed behavioural matters, and I fear you may be far from willing to change/learn?....:-(

terrorist hotline promotion campaign

just before the election?

given the evidence is terrorism is directly linked to uk troops in occupation would it not be simpler to stop occupying other people's countries?

https://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Politics/Contemporary-Issues/The-Strategic-Logic-of-Suicide-Terrorism/19519

but would vested interests be happy to give up their multi billion pound terrorism budgets?

23. At 5:35pm on 19 Mar 2010, barriesingleton 'All who do NOT worship at the 'Shrine of Quine'

There's no shrine (or bus).

'The Steep and Thorny Way to A Science of Behavior' was by Skinner (cf. Google). You really should listen to his 'On Having A Poem' too you know. It'll be just up your street. I don't think it's available on the web anymore, but I think you may have it?

Remember, it's all about policies (behaviours/labours) not people and their 'psychology'.

THIS ONE'S A CORKER!

i.e. a must read!

'German spies may target speculators'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7475052/German-spies-may-target-speculators.html

'The financial crisis has heightened European suspicions of the "Anglo-Saxon" liberalised markets advocated by the US and Britain. Now the Germans are considering using methods usually reserved for terrorists against perceived fifth columnists in the hedge fund industry.

"Within Continental Europe there are those that do think that financial speculators are sort of terrorists," Vanessa Rossi, a senior research fellow at Chatham House, told Bloomberg.

European politicians have blamed speculators for the euro's fall against the dollar in the wake of the Greek fiscal crisis and for pushing up the cost of borrowing for states by using bets in credit default markets.'

----------------------------------

Just maybe....the Europeans are less kosher than we are.

So maybe, they are just less affected by the 'Anglo-Saxon' disease.

Odd goings on: Haaretz on the Bunker-Buster story" with elaborate speculative musings by a commentator.

This is all a bit puzzling given the apparently strained relations between USA and Israel today is it not? Is it sabre rattling?

#18 re#6
"Your rhetoric might enourage some to mistakenly think that it's within people's gift to lift themselves up.... but is it? Do you know of any evidence for that romantic notion? I don't."

Then all your rhetoric, and there's lots of it, is wasted on us bloggers?

I'm even older than barrie, but I KNOW that I'm still learning and improving in many areas of endeavour, yet from what we know of my ancestors during the past 3 centuries they were all fairly ignorant.

#28 - Yes and guess who they will identify as head financial euro terrorist ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1258822/Gordon-Brown-fight-Tories-tea-parties.html

As you can see he has taken to highly subversive activities over tea and cakes. The last Rubicon of Englishness is about to be crossed and violated. Totally unable to come to terms with his horrendous mistakes the prime ministers latest plan - pensioners are to be used as Credit Default Swap terrorists with toasted 'CDS' tea cakes strapped to their bodies ready to go into battle to make massive profits in a vain attempt to cover Mr Browns monumental deficit. Angela Merkel is now all that stand between all out Gordon insanity and a defense on the banks of the Rubicon.

#28 DJ 'German spies may target speculators'

"On Black Wednesday (September 16,1992), Soros's fund sold short more than $10 billion worth of pounds sterling, profiting from the Bank of England's reluctance to either raise its interest rates to levels comparable to those of other European Exchange Rate Mechanism countries or to float an its currency. Finally, the Bank of England withdrew the currency from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, devaluing the pound sterling, and Soros earned an estimated US$ 1.1 billion in the process. He was dubbed "the man who broke the Bank of England." In 1997, the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion." (Wikepedia)

He may be a reformed man now, but his actions must have hurt millions.
As with most stock market and currency gamblers, one man's gain is many others' losses. Instead of getting mad at the arrogance of bankers' bonuses, this sounds like a positive step.

I'm not sure what this is evidence of, is it that the Scottish police force now employs female midgets in deference to the EU equality/HR legislation, or was this offender a Lithuanian giant?

30. indignantindegene 'Then all your rhetoric, and there's lots of it, is wasted on us bloggers?'

I don't write rhetoric, that's barriesingleton's forte. He's proud of it too :-(.

'I'm even older than barrie, but I KNOW that I'm still learning and improving in many areas of endeavour, yet from what we know of my ancestors during the past 3 centuries they were all fairly ignorant.'

Surely nobody is as old as barriesingleton? Is your comment above an opaque confession/insight that you too may beyond help? ;-)

28. DebtJuggler 'to protect the euro the government might tell its intelligence agencies "to set up surveillance of who is getting together with whom for which kinds of speculative processes, and where".'

They're a bit slow off the mark aren't they? Isn't that pretty much what banks and Hedge Funds etc have been doing for years? Is this yet more evidence of just how ineffectual/dopey Social Democratic Governments and their 'regulators' are?

#29 from your link-
"Diego Garcia is a British territory about 1,000 miles south of India and Sri Lanka. It is used as a U.S. military base as part of an agreement reached in 1971. In the past, the British Defense Ministry has said that the U.S. would need permission to use Diego Garcia for offensive action. It has already been used in operations against Iraq during the 1991 and 2003 Gulf wars."

Whether it's sabre rattling or a lead up to a 'false-flag situation' UK becomes complicit in yet another terrorism recruiting/provoking act by allowing the use of Diego Garcia.

With friend like USA and Israel who needs more enemies?

#34 Statist
"Surely nobody is as old as barriesingleton? Is your comment above an opaque confession/insight that you too may beyond help? ;-)"

Maybe just beyond (above) your obtuse 'help'? ;-)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

28

anglo saxon gives this away as propaganda. anyone who knows anything about market fundamentalism couldn't call it anglo saxon any more than a japanese car manufacturer in the uk is based on or controlled by 'anglo saxon' ideas.

37. indignantindegene 'Maybe just beyond (above) your obtuse 'help'? ;-)'

Ah, but as I've tried to helpfully explicate to jauntycyclist, this is a critically important linguistic/logical point. Your calling it 'obtuse' may just be indicative that you're beyond help surely? This is a point which I tried to illustrate in another context in Peston's blog today.

It's a serious, subtle point, worth thinking about, I suggest. It's a matter of intentional opacity.

The Susan Watt report: Is this report related to the Bayer Pharmacutical drug dealer...owned by the same people that own the banks -the Rothschilds...yeah! lovely people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spnEaO3yumk&feature=PlayList&p=C7ADFE5F582BFB07&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16

TONY BLAIR - MIDDLE EAST PEACE ENVOY.

"The only alternative to two states is conflict."

Awesome.

39. jauntycyclist Surely you've got your classes wrong? Wall Street is predominantly Anglo-Saxon is it not? The Anglo-Saxons came from Germany.

For those of you that have been hanging on the edge of your seat ....

Or not ....

The link to the - interpretation of the - survey I mentioned on Wednesday.

www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/162262/Immigration-No-party-can-control-it-say-voters-

Sadly it isn’t the most detailed piece of journalism ever and one has to wonder just how much the survey actually cost the newspaper? That said .... Is the hard copy, assuming it was published in the daily - not my cup of tea - paper, any more detailed”

For non-political purposes the policy of the three prominent parties could be summarised as ....

Nu Lab. We’ll open and close the door as necessary but you won’t have any say in it and it won’t have any relevance to UK unemployment figures..

Nu Cons. We’ll open the door until our quota is reached but we won’t tell you what the quota is and if the allowance isn’t met we’ll invite them to come.

Lib Doms .... What door? There’s a door? We don’t see no door!

#22

Ah, posting from my iPhone in a busy London street made me skip 'been' twice. It should be 'you've been' and 'I've been'.

Statist #43

Said link must to GO1's delight finally blow your cover, ( AKA JadedJean ) but I wonder just how many current NN bloggers remember you in your original incarnation as Adrienne ? ( keep up the good work )

Catholicism, celibacy and dysgenesis: Maybe the Catholic clergy of Ireland (and other statist nations like Spain, Italy etc) were rudely awoken from their dogmatic slumbers because of suggestions that they'd been inadvertently contributing to the dumbing down of their overall populations by the brightest in their populations having been hoovered up into this celibate profession for centuries? After all, if you read James Joyce etc you'll see how up until very recently in history, most of their intelligentsia were in the Church.

Now who might have flogged them that idea I wonder?

I'm disgusted with the Catholic Church and with what Catholics said on the programme tonight. All I can see is a lot of wriggling by Catholic officials trying to control the damage and an apology only because they have been found out. It's an empty gesture in my opinion. For years and years sexual abuse what knowledge within the church but apart from trying to keep the lid on it, nothing was done about it. Abuse lower than in society?? It's a religious organisation!! If these people had any idea about the message of love, which Christianity in essence is,they would hang their heads in shame. If such abuse happened outside the church, people would be dragged to court and resign. Despicable! If I were a Catholic I would be deeply ashamed and think twice about calling myself Catholic.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

rc church ruied my life. but who cares. as long as church is safe and rich and get richer every day. who are we to try and stop them. this is proof that god can't exsist

44. JAperson 'Sadly it isn’t the most detailed piece of journalism ever and one has to wonder just how much the survey actually cost the newspaper? That said .... Is the hard copy, assuming it was published in the daily - not my cup of tea - paper, any more detailed”'

Deja vu. Have a look at the link at 43 and comments.

Round and round and round we go. We've been here before, you'll find.

46. brossen99 'Said link must to GO1's delight finally blow your cover, ( AKA JadedJean ) but I wonder just how many current NN bloggers remember you in your original incarnation as Adrienne ? ( keep up the good work )'

I just recognise quality when I see it.

SELF DECEPTION

Oh, how sad it must feel
In what desperate state to be
To have realised it’s all been in vain
To have fritted one’s life away
Spent dreaming false dreams
And be left out on a limb!

The squalls of accumulating scandal buffeting the roman catholic church will look a mere trifle compared to the 'perfect storm' that is shortly coming. For these growing, worldwide sexual scandals and endemic institutional corruption are only setting the stage for the 'churches' worst nightmare: the questioning of it's very origins! And that has already begun on the web. Not by any atheist ravings, but with first wholly new interpretation for 2000 years of the Gospel/moral teachings of Christ. Redefining all primary elements including Faith, the Word, Law, Baptism, the Trinity and the Resurrection. This is not reformation but revolution. We may very well come to 'remember' the church as two thousands years of hubris, intellectual, theological self deception and retailing a counterfeit copy of revealed truth. https://www.energon.org.uk

43

greenspan and his mates in the chicago school of anglo saxon descent? i think you will find a lot of middle eastern and slavic and celtic sounding names too?

anglo saxon is a curious racial analysis for an international business. but then the french are like that? :)

i think everyone smeared their faces with the blood? which race is pure?

australia/new zealand which one might think more anglo saxon dodged the financial bullet and have been raising interest rates.

what shall we say of the greeks? or nordics of iceland?

the anglo saxon jibe is ludicrous eu propaganda.

USA NOT NICE TO KNOW - UNLESS YOU ARE TONY (#41 link)

I see the Factor 8 story goes back to the early 80s. I suggest that a country capable of selling the contaminated material to their 'friends' in various parts of the world is MORE THAN CAPABLE, by 2001, of demolishing the three NYC towers in an elaborate charade (New Pearl Harbour) to usher in The New World Order - Patriot Act, and all that accrues.

With friends like that (and the EU) we don't need enemies.

"Aggressive fighting for the right is the noblest sport the world affords." Roosevelt

Quoted earlier today by Barack Obama in:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/19/i-still-believe-we-can-do-whats-right?utm_source=email45&utm_medium=image&utm_campaign=healthreform

There is something undeniably special about the man.

If the Catholic members of this faith have any credibility in representing God to the human race they will shop every known pedophile inside and outside their order to the police authorities in charge of safeguarding the public interest of any nation.

I think we should have an open transparent rehabilitation system to provide all humans with the opportunity to confront their tendencies towards children before they commit the crime. An open honest opportunity to eliminate the growth patterns of this disease in a constructive way.

For those who ignore an opportunity to take advantage of rehabilitation before offence and commit crimes against children, we should develop a new prison environment called hell.

Hell will have no release, no rehabilitation; it will be a ghost town for zombies who will have to work to receive privileges.

We need a new education, political, health, legal, economic, social system based on reality and not fiction. Capitalism is out of control and this recession as been going on for 100's of years not 13.

Privilege is existence not a birth right.

Status is existence not a birth right.

Heritage is the common right of every human being, not the contrived legal services of the wealthy who have manipulated law in to a criminal system with no rules.

Why haven't the police arrested all the tax evaders to recover all the stolen money? The wealthy are more criminal than the criminal’s police exploit on behalf of the wealthy pay masters. The poor are the most violated exploited people in memory, by those claiming to be civilized. No one really knows the difference between rights and wrong in this system, we are all criminals or accessories to each others crimes.
Politically correct or pc really means politely conforming to the global cycle of abuse. The media is bought and paid for by wealthy criminals who indoctrinate all the slaves in the open prison system or nation with their sick philosophy of greed.

Charity is a two faced religiously indoctrinated devaluing system to reduce the guilt for compliance with a system that doesn't basically give a sh*t. The religious love affair with capitalism is the sickest form of hypocrisy in existence. These people haven't represented God, morality, ethics, law or humanity, just themselves.

Everyone who exists is a member of an unnatural chaos called the inequality of life. The inequality of life is the relationship between the perception of order and the reality of chaos, designed to defend the inequality of heritage and privilege…like you do!

Every living human owns the common heritage of this planets oceans, but, can they save endangered species like fish…no it’s a free for all, no one understands the meaning of selfless control, because, those who control have no use for it.

There’s a line that doesn’t stop at boarders…its called existence. Equality is the quality in equality all humans have naturally shared for over 70,000 years. These models of awareness are easily to translate, binding psychology, philosophy and law to the meaning of sharing decisions collectively in life, because this line forms the basis of every human’s natural rights to compatible and reasonable shares in future relativity.

Politics is supposed to be a system that allows all humans the ability to get the most out of their own and each others life, without committing a crime. Crime is a response to exploitation and the ability to exploit. Healthy exploitation is in the best interest of all equal shares in existence, given all shares have the same vulnerabilities.

#58

you're just too clever by half, pslowe, with finding ever more excuses for crimes committed, for teasing everybody out of their wits, for free for all philosopy...

what's your other blogging name?

#58

Actually, pslow, I'd like to ask you a question.

If presented with a 1 to 11 heroic scale, where would you place yourself? Can't wait to see your answer. Or are you going to respond in a few decades from now?

MORE REAL HEROES:

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8576828.stm

Narcissism: an unattractive, and insightless class of behaviours which feeds on supply from others. Should sych behaviours be ignored in aid of their extinction, or should they be indulged to enable arrested development to catch up?

A practical dilemma.

MIGHT IT BE THE SHEER SCALE THAT DEFEATS US? (#58)

E F Schumacher wrote: "Small is Beautiful". (Well - there ARE some small bits of humanity that don't pass the test.) However: the smallest unit is one individual human being. That said, few of us do not struggle WITH OURSELVES during a lifetime - some go down (some even 'split') and others rise to fulfilled heights of competence and wisdom.

When we pair with another 'individual', the two halves of the pair will, at times, struggle with the 'mutual unknown' that can be 'bigger than both of them'.

A family must surely multiply the challenge further (exponentially?).

"It takes a village to raise a child" - let's hope the village has come to terms with itself first!

It would appear to 'take a Church' to screw up a mass of young men and, by proxy, a further mass of our vulnerable children.

The WHOLE WORLD now looms in the consciousness of the Messianic and megalomaniac - it is their Global Oyster and inflames their power-libido infinitely.

Clearly, 'SMALL' is all that The Ape Confused by Language can really handle.

We need a small hero.

A self-deprecating hero has made into my heart!
I’ve never seen him wearing a hat
But I’m sure he’d look dashing in one
Manly yet gentle, a true Englishman!

mim

#61

who feeds on whom?
just look at yourself from outside and within, it might help

55. jauntycyclist Indeed. But I'd like to make one point very clear. Racism, whether anti-Semitism or any other sort is not so much morally, as factually misguided, in that it usually amounts to taring a whole group, which itself is only vaguely defined. Not all members of said groups will share all the declared properties. This is the problem of class vs properties, and how we determinate/ascribe class membership. It is about the logic of extension vs (mentalistic) intension (we gain the former at the expense of the latter), and it's the logical problem right at the core of language and science. It's an unended quest, an evolving language. That is why this matter is of such interest. It is all about the pursuit of truth, or what you might call 'the good'. It is about our ever knowing what we are talking about with any practical utility. What one has to become aware of is that one is always talking about the frequencies of behaviours in groups (classes), i.e probabilities. This is linguistically 'vague' in Natural Language, and so with this come caveats and cautions when referring to individuals (whether it's people or cheese. In practice, one can only talk about risk or uncertainty with respect to cases, which means that error is inevitable, as that's implicit in probability estimation, and its language. To pursue truth requires on to learn the language of probability.

That is the way that we deal with behaviour, all of us, whether we see this or not. Some of us do it better than others, but then some of us can benefit from the work of others.

#63

The first line should read:

A self-depricating hero has made it into my heart.

But, to continue the thread on dictators, particularly the short ones, I've just finished the chapter in Peter York's book 'Dictators' Homes' on Nicolae Ceausescu, the President of Romania 1965-1989, finding his death by execution /apparently hundreds of people applied for firing job/. He was only 5ft2 and is described in the book as 'barking mad and an unstable paranoiac' which didn't stop world politicians showering him and his wife Elena with gifts.

And this is it. Why do people, including those in high positions of power give in to murderers and nasties?

Mussolini had a different woman for only a quickie every day while N Ceausescu had a different suit for every day. All the proceeds from the sales of the Ceausescus amalgamated wealth were shared by an old people's home and a Romanian leper colony.

The Ceausescus embodied statism.

62. barriesingleton 'It would appear to 'take a Church' to screw up a mass of young men and, by proxy, a further mass of our vulnerable children.'

So, by the same logic, given that families produce paedophiles, we should we abandon or more closely examine family life? As the Bishop said in last night's piece (you did note the interviewer's feeder lines about what most people's perceptions are?), the frequency of such behaviours in the Catholic Church is probably lower than that in society in general. But most people don't know how to think and talk this way, most don't get good levels in their maths SATs, especially girls.

One has to look at base rates. What is the frequency in all populations. What is the rate in sub-populations. Is the difference significant? What we are hearing from the Church is that they think greater efforts should be made to safeguard the vulnerable. But then, they would say that, as that's their business, and that's why this has hit the Church badly. It's about trust and faith. have we not heard this about schools and Care Homes. All these are state bodies! These are areas where behaviours are most easily observed, because they are public sector and open to more scrutiny, it's where the HR applies and the FOIA.

Does greater 'transparency' mean that such behaviours can be prevented? Or does it just make it easier to run the state down in favour of the private sector? This is what I think this is all about, and most don't see it, or the cost in the long run. It's about cuts in public services to pay for bank bail outs etc. Naked capitalism.

#62

Barriesingleton

What do you mean by 'small'? Small in size or small in realisation that each one of us, physically at least, is but a speck of dust in the history of the Universe, the beginning and the end of which remain unfanthomable?

In the history of mankind, however, some become eternal while others' achievement can only be described in terms of having been born, having done this and that, and death playing a sort of a minute ring in the evolutionary chain. But, it must be admitted, that in the history of mankind there are mad dictators as well as creators, with some of them quite often going mad too.

64. mimpromptu 'who feeds on whom? just look at yourself from outside and within, it might help'

The first step towards solving any problem is to identify that there is a problem, and not deny that it is a problem.

There are some 'good' people posting here. Do you know how to identify them? Do you know how to learn from them? Do you know what might offend them?

Narcissism is central to all normal development, but it goes a little awry for some (usually in infancy or adolescence). Some end up feeding on the wrong stuff.

There's some 'good' stuff here which you might learn/benefit from. Try not to fight it.

#67

stat

it beats me to understand why good grades in maths should have anything to do with paedophilia

Ladies and Gentlemen, we’ve stumbled upon an interesting psychiatric case
Of a man who thought he had what it takes,
Projecting his follies onto other folk
Ending, however, as a total flop!

mim

the NN reporter said we did not hear about abuse in the protestant church? what research did he do? did he even do a google search?

in the same way why were there no quizzes of the queen when she first knew about child abuse in the anglican church that had been going on for years on an industrial scale?


https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/september3/19.27.html


...some former students are resolved to suffer the consequences of going public, but others who have not launched lawsuits, but were abused, have been so shocked to learn that their secrets will be revealed in a public forum that they have taken their own lives rather than face the scrutiny and shame of appearing as witnesses at trials....

https://www.anglicanjournal.com/feature/sins-of-the-father/news/article/who-is-to-blame/?cHash=41cd4248b1

none of this was in the uk press at the time even though the schools were run from London.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/04/2761717.htm

so if anglican child sex stories are not reported in the uk one must assume the monarchists wish to keep it quiet and distance the so called head of the anglican church from the crimes and so avoid questions of who is really responsible for the church behaviour?

LAZER LIGHT THAT LEAVES A LINE UNLOVED. (#68)

Oh Monika! I am smote but not smitten. Are you sister to the little boy who pointed out the Emperor's nakedness?

My Polish is rubbish!

..My Polish is rubbish!..

don't put that on the cv.

70. mimpromptu 'it beats me to understand why good grades in maths should have anything to do with paedophilia'

Are you surprised? Are you good at maths? Ask any maths teacher how most pupils fare with probability at Key Stage 3. Then look at the results in maths by sex or look at who chooses to do maths (or the sciences requiring ability in maths) at higher levels after Key Stage 4.

The point is that base-rate neglect is a well documented bias in human judgement (although I suspect it is related to educability and thus IQ). See Kahneman's Nobel Prize, although I think one should look to individual differences in cognitive ability instead. Most people do not adequately take into consideration the frequencies of behaviours in the general population when evaluating events locally, i.e. to hand. It is called base-rate neglect, and it can be dramatic, surprising so. Even when taught about it, people keep on doing it. It appears to be a hard-wired thing. This is why one needs to rely on rules instead, not intuition. Professionals have to learn to 'fly by wire' not on manual....

How prevalent is paedophilia? How common (prevalent/frequent) is sex offending in general? Much less common than many would some believe. Rare events are hard to predict and manage. It's a probabilistic thing.

72. jauntycyclist 'the NN reporter said we did not hear about abuse in the protestant church? what research did he do? did he even do a google search?'

Reporters (and Newsnight presenters) often play Devil's Advocate. It's a jounalistic technique, and is scripted with the interviewee's agreement.

This is done by Newsnight a lot I suspect - to provoke balanced, 'edgy' debate.

65

good and truth may not be the same thing all the time. there is a saying 'we all know the truth but we only say it if we want to hurt someone'. now there maybe good in hurting someone if what one is doing is for their good rather than out of cruelty and personal pleasure.

it maybe true to tell someone they are ugly but if its something they cannot do anything about then is it good? so good can trump truth. good relates to benefit. some truth has little or no benefit.

probability relates to seeing the world as chaos with no meaning. ie its a class of physicists pretending they are philosophers. . which is why they come up with nonsense. there have been some talks on this and quants at gresham college.

if one takes class or race or chaos as the highest idea of the mind then there probably are insoluble and arcane linguistic problems of little practical relevance?

#73

Oh, Barriesingleton, I'm disappointed in you. Why do you think when I was talking of small sizes I was talking about you? I don't know you for a madam. Unless you've somehow traced me down at some stage and, let's say, we attended the same event, I wouldn't have known whether it was you or not, even though there is a photo of you on your website.

So, basically, I know you've been talking on behalf of others for some reason or another who I have probably known in the past. That's my suspicion anyway but admittedly I may be wrong.

#75

your text is as confused as ever, in my humble opinion

Meanwhile, over in the tinder-box:

'Israel has responded to rocket fire from Gaza since the war last year. But air strikes are often tempered to avoid casualties, as a signal to Hamas that Israel holds it responsible while remaining aware that it is not behind the rocket fire, and to avoid the appearance of disrupting U.S.-backed diplomacy in the region.

The latest air strikes took place the day of a meeting of Quartet Middle East power mediators in Moscow and just before a planned visit by U.S. envoy George Mitchell, who is seeking to relaunch moribund peace talks in the region.

Haaretz, 20 March 2010

The problem, as Haaretz rigtly points out, is that: 'A previously unknown group, Ansar al-Sunna, believed to share the hardline ideology of al-Qaida, claimed responsibility for the rocket fire at Israel, as well as the Al-Aqsa Martrys Brigades, a wing of the mainstream Fatah movement.

But Fatah is not in power in Gaza, Hamas is, and another troubling thing is that the Israelis never seem to be able to photograph or capture any of these rocketeers.....

As others have often pointed out, we didn't bomb Dublin when the IRA bombed NI and the mainland. (Odd add on the Haaretz page, by the way).

77. jauntycyclist 'if one takes class or race or chaos as the highest idea of the mind then there probably are insoluble and arcane linguistic problems of little practical relevance?'

That's an odd question, or at least it's oddly put. 'Mind' is a fiction. It's what's rolled back as we have learned more about behaviour and what controls it. Have you noticed how the word is used less often these days? That's because we know more. The language of science is one of specilaist predicates (classes) and probability. If you don't accept that, when ill, go and see a witch-doctor or some other snake-oil salesperson instead of a proper doctor.

Seriously, you now risk talking yourself into a self-destructive corner by being oppositionally defiant/proud/neophobic/narcissistic. I suggest this is not 'good for you. Try, instead, to learn what's being offered here - whether you like it or not, it's 'good' stuff, and it's free too ! ;-)

79. mimpromptu 'your text is as confused as ever, in my humble opinion'

Alternatively, you have something to learn, and so are a bit confused.

Persevere, and some of that may clear.

...The foreign secretary said it was right to speak out about the denial of human rights to the people of Iran by a regime which he described as being "nervous" and "paranoid about its future". ...

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8577643.stm

milliband is ever quick on iran tub thumping. so why so slow on other matters?

is milliband still 'going through the motions' on the passport 'outrage'?

doesn't he have a friend and strategic partner that has issues with the denial of human rights to the people ... by a regime which that could be described as being "nervous" and "paranoid about its future. ...

the current FO is not much of a force for uk good? if one was to plot their doings then one might think the uk good was not their 'core mission'?

81

i understand you have trouble with words in the dictionary. seeing as you disapprove of them maybe try a few posts without using any words from the 'hated' dictionary? :)


the soviets used to lock political prisoners up in asylums and force feed them drugs because they said people were mad to oppose the doctrines that lead to the workers paradise. i see you are using the same rationale. anyone who opposes your limited and narrow views is 'ill'?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

83. jauntycyclist 'miliband is ever quick on iran tub thumping. so why so slow on other matters?'

Is it because he is a bully? Is it because he thinks he can hide behind the USA like Israel? The problem is, if China and Russia see Palestine and the rest of the Middle East (like Pakistan) being bullied, they may well have to show the USA who's the boss, and 99.5% of the UK and 98% of the USA could end up being collateral damage, which has already happened to some extent I suggest.

Human Rights are only useful for undermining human duties - statism.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

84 jauntycyclist 'i understand you have trouble with words in the dictionary. seeing as you disapprove of them maybe try a few posts without using any words from the 'hated' dictionary? :)'

I'm not sure you do understand. From what you have written, I suspect you may not have done a formal degree/course in philosophy?

The OED etc records common Natural Language usages. There are also other dictionaries which one has to learn when learning languages other than Ordinary (Natural) Language. These dictionaries are the 'professions'. When one learns philosophy, or any of the professions (especially the sciences), one has to learn to use language differently, or one learns a different language (e.g. chemistry). These are verbal behaviours which one learns. You still use Natural language, but you use it differently. There are certain locutions one no longer uses in explanatory positions because one come sto see they actually do no useful explanatory work. I am urging you not to use metaphysical or mentalistic terms in explanatory positions as they are in fact vacuous, and just because lots of people do this, doesn't make what they say any less vacuous.

This is a subtle point, but I'm not misleading you. It's useful to see this. Can you see how that may be true?

In the HuffPost:

'Last week, Lehman's bankruptcy examiner issued a scathing report that detailed the firm's use of "Repo 105" transactions to keep debts from being reflected on their balance sheet. The deals were essentially loans that were improperly classified as revenue on Lehman's books. The effect was to remove $50 billion from Lehman's balance sheet -- an act that then CEO Richard Fuld, was "at least grossly negligent" in allowing, the examiner said.

Based on Dodd's letter, it seems that NPR was correct in saying that it's a "safe bet" criminal trials are not far off. '

Does this raise the old argument about blue collar versus white collar crime and punishment. A lout with a shotgun robs a post office and rightly gets life whilst a trader who defrauds a bank and leaves many people damaged and possibly destitute gets eight years and might be out in five or so?

What punishment would fit the bill for the impact that Lehmans had on the global economy - though ultimately it was the lack of regulation that was to blame?

If there is no valid punishment does that not further raise the profile of banks-that-are-too-big-to-fail?

If we leave a situation where people can play Russian roulette with the global economy, as opposed to taking risks with their own capital, then sooner or later somebody will.

We need better regulation and down-sized banks and an early warning system.

84. jauntycyclist 'the soviets used to lock political prisoners up in asylums and force feed them drugs because they said people were mad to oppose the doctrines that lead to the workers paradise.'

That's done here too. Really! Perhaps some of our ex inmates/patients go to Russia and say that they were forceably medicated whilst in prison or hospitals? You need to be far more critical of all of this I suggest. The USSR used Haloperidol. It's used to sedate (especially, but not only, psychotics). We have in fact been fed anti-Statist propaganda for decades, essentially to make us love the free-market and get into debt.

'i see you are using the same rationale. anyone who opposes your limited and narrow views is 'ill'?

Would you care to point out where?

In some cases, I'm sure many such people exist, but not because they oppose my 'limited and narrow views'. They're probably just made that way. It would be 'good' if this were not so, as it would make change more likely.

Food For Thought: Are women/people who don't want mortgages, the latest fashion items, and credit, a bit mad? Would some like to make more think so? Why are so many (women especially) on anti-depressants?

#88 statist

"I am urging you not to use metaphysical or mentalistic terms in explanatory positions as they are in fact vacuous, and just because lots of people do this, doesn't make what they say any less vacuous."

When you used to post as jaded_jean you used to try and use statistics to show the Holocaust never happened - it was "made up to put people off statism" and also that there was a scientific basis for the race "realism" that you espouse.

Probably the reason that you don't post as jaded_jean is that both claims are patently untrue and there is no legal case where either has been successfully proposed.

For instance the alleged Nazi death camp guard Djamjanjuk is hardly going to use your internet statistics where the prosecution can rip them to pieces.

The BNP could not go to court with the EHRC and use your risible "genetic racial intelligence arguments" as there is no scientific basis for what you say. Similarly the "jewish hegemony" is no more than Hitler used to propose - and similarly has no evidence behind the claims at all or they would have been appearing in a class action wouldn't they?

So as most snake oil sales people do you try to lay on a thick veneer of intellectual grandiosity to bolster your fantasy propositions.

If you believed they were not fantasy - with all of your years of intellectual training - then the scientific, legal, historical and philosophical journals were all be full of valid references for your claims. But they aren't.

As for your take on your left wing credentials you managed to cite a neocon argument that Hitler was quite impressed by the revolutionary Leninism the other day.

But of course Hitler was adapting his arguments in the beer halls as required and as Bullock says was basically stealing the Leninist clothes.

By far the most valid description of Hitler was made by Russell who described him, briefly, as a replacement monarch. Hence he had no need for ideology other than as a tool and whilst Lenin had the aristocrats shot Hitler had a painting of Frederick the Great on his wall at all times. Hence the Fuhrer-State - the absolute monarch.

You do get so pretentious when you "explicate" your arguments and its probably because you are escaping from the fact that you know they are not valid.

Another thing that "statist" tends to forget about on the leftist National Socialists is that Hitler had the NKVD liquidated in Germany, fought Stalinist forces in the Spanish civil war and of course killed 22 million Russians in the invasion.

With friends like that the communists didn't really need any enemies.

Its also left out that National Socialism was effectively using an hysterical racial argument to bind the German people against foreigners - who could then be conquered according to Hitlers will.

So balancing the fact that "Hitler admired Lenin" with the historical fact that the Nazis described the Russians and Slavs as sub-human is deeply contradictory and reveals the typically amoral false arguments that they used.

Meanwhile today this latter day Haw Haw and his chums still try to bleat on about the benefits of National Socialism.

But when you shine a light into their darkness they retreat as fast as they did from Stalingrad.

#56 barriesingleton

"I see the Factor 8 story goes back to the early 80s. I suggest that a country capable of selling the contaminated material to their 'friends' in various parts of the world is MORE THAN CAPABLE, by 2001, of demolishing the three NYC towers in an elaborate charade (New Pearl Harbour) to usher in The New World Order - Patriot Act, and all that accrues."

I think that you are more than capable of howling at the moon given there is not a scintilla of evidence for what you say and an abundance of evidence that al Qaeda were responsible.

A cynic would say that this is the far right trying to destabilize confidence in democracy as they have no valid arguments for another form of government that would win popular support.

Class conflict: As a matter of historical accuracy, Franco (a statist) was fighting the POUM/CNT (anarchists/Trotskyites - anti-statists) in the Spanish Civil War. Germany (statist) provided Franco with some support, and Stalinists (statists) from the USSR were shooting the Trotskites/anarchists!

Anarchism is often used to bring down states. It was done in 1917. The German objective was to use the Bolsheviks to get Tsarist Russia (Britain and France's ally) out of WWI so Germany wasn't fighting on two fronts. This is well documented in Hansard, and was said in the House by Churchill in 1919.

I suggest much the same has been going on here, in Britain, for some time, i.e. the erosion of the Public Sector/Welfare State in pursuit of profit via asset stripping.

This is just an hypothesis, but it's one which has a lot of evidence to support it I submit.

'E'S 'AVIN A GO AT THE CYNICS NOW! (#93)

Consider the Lilies of the field: the disintegrate not, neither do they collapse, but topple-over sideways every time. Even Solomon, in all his glory, never saw THREE Lilies on the same patch, within one day, fall down through their own stalks.

As our own Solomon Blogday might say: "It is a matter of probability - statistics"; it never happened to 'a Lily' BEFORE 9/11 OR SINCE.

"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

#91

Very well put, Gango!

Pretentious with a thick veneer of intellectual grandiosity to bolster his fantasy.

mim

95. barriesingleton Remember Owen's words? People eh? Not all they seem ;-)

British Airways, British Rail, The GPO etc etc ....

Don't you miss all that 'dull' and 'oppressive' statism? I bet you most of the East Germans and Russians etc miss it.

#73

Singie

A bit more about hero sizes.

You see:

Once one's tasted a big one,
A small hero can even become distasteful.
It's Mother Nature and nothing can be done.
You shouldn't have started,
So now you're getting a mouthful.

mim

#89

Take a look at Lucy Komisar's site to see the scale of financial corruption. I came across her while researching the Earnest Backes and the Clearstream affair some years ago.

'What punishment would fit the bill for the impact that Lehmans had on the global economy - though ultimately it was the lack of regulation that was to blame?'

During the last few months all our major banks have been given the go ahead to be involved with the ICE Trust - a little Credit Default Swap club for the big boys of banking. Could it be that the new 'tougher' FSA gave 'the go ahead' And who else would be in the know - Alistair Darlek and a tea party charlie perhaps. This is of major significant now and especially in the future, but where on the BBC is it ?

https://thekomisarscoop.com

88

i see you are still using words from the dictionary for your posts. how depressing that must be :)


philosophy is not taught in universities as a living practical subject. which is why today it is ignored and deemed irrelevant. the universities which are the old 'defenders of the faith' are there not to teach philosophy but to obscure it and grind out the vitality. anyone who has been damaged by such a course will likely have lots of problems trying to get out of that labyrinth?

as pierre grimes points out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z94r8yBH4mM

but everyone has a philosophy and it is the most vital thing they have as it guides their hearts and minds. philosophy has a language but it is an understandable one and the normal everyday words of the dictionary is fine. i do know that university types get quite violent, [it maybe kinder to say emotional] about denying this as they stay in the cave.