Monday 29 March 2010

#113

Echolizzy

Don't tell me that you believe that sitting in front of a computer pontificating about everybody's inadequacies and praising Hitler, Stalinism and the like is a sign of courage?

mim

#1

Sorry Lizzy, I think you call yourself, Ecolizzy..

#1 mimpromptu

Well said mim - my favourite quote of ecolizzy was that that poster said they did not like visiting London due to the "racial mix".

So there is a well balanced person with a good grasp of scientific reality on genetic matters that shows that all of the races are incredibly similar. London must be cheering I thought.

There was also the post where it was indicated that ecolizzy had in fact visited the BNP website (the site that "gets more hits than all of the other parties put together" hence they have a minute following) because I thought ecolizzy was "a fascist".

Actually I didn't as "fascist" is vague but I tend to think that when people such as jaded_jean/statist protest that they are "not nasty Nazis" but then praise National Socialism as a better option than democracy you tend to wonder what the difference is.

On the Chancellors debate the big question I would have thought would be who can make sure that the economic crisis won't happen again? Brown can't take the measures because it will acknowledge his complicity and Osborne has to consider ideological rifts.

Even the mighty Vince Cable has not really spelled out whether the big banks should be broken up - could Barclays be too-big-to-fail - and how you harness a market without playing Russian Roulette with the global economy?

If the banks themselves don't understand the risks of their derivative trades how can a regulator? If I understand it in Lehmans the problems boiled down to six individuals and some very dodgey accounting practices.

There are also some tricky what-if scenarios. If they dwell on the risks of Greece going off the rails and a double dip then perhaps they bring it on.

Could it be said that the Chancellors debate is the big debate?

Then again personally I see structural problems as the biggest issue and that if you have sound people in a coherent constitutional framework you should get better governance and less sleaze.

But I admire the US constitution and when you look at what Bush/Cheney got away with and what Palin might offer in the future for instance it can't compensate for all human failings.

#1 mimpromptu

I am sure you will remember that they will view this as their ongoing propaganda campaign that may be tweaked here and there but they are incapable of recognising the fact that their views are fundamentally flawed and in fact evil.

For instance you will see Jews mentioned every day but try to pin them down on why exactly they hold the views that they do in terms of evidence and facts and you get zip. Some vague statistics on how well Jews were doing in NYC is the best that I got. You may get Hitler "did what he did" as the Jews were an "internal economic and political threat" but no facts - just rhetoric.

I am always suggesting that they take their "evidence" off to the EHRC as if there was a "Jewish hegemony" today then their rights must be being infringed.

The fact that they don't do that tells you absolutely everything as does the fact that the nonsense about "the Holocaust being made up to put people off statism" is not going to be backed up with evidence at any Nazi war crimes trial.

On mephedrone I suppose the vacuum in policy and action is the end product of a sofa-politics/tick list policies approach that is normally geared far more to massaging public opinion than dealing with the fundamental problem.

Everything is seen to be horribly wrong when the cosmetic approach grinds into harsh reality and there is nobody on hand to take responsibility and put things right.

Scientists should deal with the science and politicians with strategy but scientists should not be expected to be props in a political pantomime.

I still lament that with all of our current influence on the banks we are not improving our money laundering detection activities as the drugs trade with large volumes of money to clean could not function on the same scale.

I have no idea what to expect with the Paul Mason film but I hope that it may fill in some of the gaps on the fabled "rebalancing of the economy".

Will it happen naturally and slowly or sharply due to policy impacts?

Personally I think there is not a lot wrong with Britain barring we put far too much faith in arrogant bankers who were not properly regulated. If they had been properly regulated and had created real genuine wealth then we would still be quite content rather than expecting an Ice Age of austerity for a decade or so.

Has there been any political follow up to the excellent Newsnight piece on the Lockerbie bombing circuit board some time back?

#3

Gango

I don't think Ecolizzy is a fascist but rather, probably for personal reasons the reasons for which I suspect but would refer not to speculate on publically, has decided to play jj/statist's game. It seems to me like a sad story.

mim

'At a Mass in Rome's St Peter's Square, he said his faith would help give him the courage to deflect "petty gossip".

The Pope has been accused of failing to act over the case of a US priest alleged to have abused 200 deaf boys. '

Petty gossip?

I can see that there has been an historical problem that is now showing up in Ireland, the US and Italy but probably goes back hundreds of years. Its not just this Popes fault.

I am not a Catholic but this is a person who should know better than to dismiss these hideous acts with such a phrase as this effects society as a whole.

But perhaps as I suggested the other day the problem that underlies this scandal is not celibacy and sexual desire but creating a safe haven where deference to the Church will protect the scheming perpetrators.

I would think many people will be questioning whether there is undue deference to the Pope.

DIFFERENCISTPHOBIA - PC FOR SHORT

I assert my right to be most comfortable amongst people very like me, and progressively less so as they deviate from my self-referenced norm. When I was young this was relatively easy. Multiculturalism has impacted negatively.

But, I am differencist - the way Nature made me.

Thus, I am able to accept differencism in others; it would be perverse not to. I suggest that those most vehement in their attack on NN blog-posters who see no need to hide preferences based on 'difference', should look for the beam in their own eye. A life is all about choices, based on prejudice.

I do not advocate attack on difference, but avoidance is natural, and stigma-free. Or shall we pass a law to make Jews worship in the Catholic church, C of E in the synagogue, Muslims in the parish church and Catholics in the mosque? These groups are vehemently differencist, and responsible for not a few wars, past and present.

Suppression of difference is NOT WHAT NATURE WOULD DO.

LOCKERBIE (#8)

Private Eye did a 'Lockerbie Special', after the stitch-up. If you haven't read it, don't assume it is out of date. Passage of time has not added much.

Piers Morgan of sun spot watchers Weather Action fairly accurately predicted the weather for March, said it would be cold to start then relatively mild ( bit out here warm spell lasted more than five days ) but the Met office muppets have forecast snow over the northern half of the UK on Tuesday / Wednesday. Near enough for me to prove that he might know something useful about climate change, of which is is one of the minor celebrity deniers. Looks like a mad professor, hair all over the place, just the kind of scientist I tend to trust, not doing it for the money and fame really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikiBCexzGo

Hee,hee, fame at last! Seven mentions of my name in "dispatches"

11. BARRIESINGLETON 'Suppression of difference is NOT WHAT NATURE WOULD DO.'

Strength lies in diversity because that reduces the likelihood of the entire group being wiped out by one class/type of invader. The essence of identity (self vs non self) is in fact largely encoded on chromosome 6 where the MHC lies. This issue is, in my view, all about immunity - self vs non self, which is central to survival. Those who assert otherwise don't know what they are talking about, and certainly can't known about haplotypes, histocompatibility and the immune system.

Don't let them anywhere near jobs which require people to behave responsibly with respect to blood transfusions etc or tissue typing etc. They have a poor ability to discriminate, which is just indicative of low intelligence and poor educability.

NN's Sarah McDermott wrote:

'Tonight we will be assessing the performances of the three men who want to be chancellor post election - Alistair Darling, George Osborne and Vince Cable - on Channel 4's live debate.

And explaining the ins and outs of Mr Osbourne's policy announcement that the Tories would block some of next year's planned National Insurance rises.'

---------------------------------

Well!...is it Osborne or Osbourne?...or is Osbourne a different person from Osborne?

SEA WYF STILL SEEKING BISCUIT? (#16)

It's been a long time - has she forgotten precisely how to spell his name?

Why did the UK pensions authority PADA just recently give a 600 million pound contract to an Indian Company TATA when we have so much unemployment at home and UK is supposed to lead in IT and Technology ??
Strange is it not??

What is wrong with Britain?

STUFF!

Life is ALL about 'Stuff', the money you need to buy Stuff', valuing each other by the 'Stuff' they have, How hard everyone works to get the money needed to buy the 'Stuff', needing bigger houses to keep the 'Stuff' in, Having to have more holidays in order to see different 'Stuff', and the stress of trying to figure out how to get rid of the old 'Stuff' when it is OUT and what new 'Stuff' is IN.

Somewhere along the line we lose sight of PEOPLE. Humanity.

Seemples! And Bloody Sad!

Tonight we will be assessing the performances of the three men who want to be chancellor post election - Alistair Darling, George Osborne and Vince Cable - on Channel 4's live debate.

And explaining the ins and outs of Mr Osbourne's policy announcement that the Tories would block some of next year's planned National Insurance rises.'

Does the Newsnight Production Team really think that the NN demographic is now so stupid that it has to explain what happens (even though they can see it for themselves)? Or does the NN team think that their commentators are cleverer than everyone else? If so, try sampling different demographics for your FOCUS groups.

Mind you, keep this up and you'll have a self-fulfilling prophesy. :-(

18. Peter J Davies 'Strange is it not??'

Sadly, NO!

SOCK IT TO THEM BYT (#16)

Speaking of socks: I bought a set of five pair from Sainsbury's, they have dinky little Union Jacks on them - made in Turkey.

(I have not yet run into an obliging Boy Scout, to check they are right-way-up.)

19. brightyangthing 'Somewhere along the line we lose sight of PEOPLE. Humanity.'

Do you know a lot of people? I mean really know them? Once you get to know them, a lot really are not very nice you know!! Bundles of contradictions (and don't tell me that's what makes them so 'interesting'! ;-)

Most people need careful management. Lots of it.

#14

Ecolizzy

Do you mean you help produce 'Dispatches' and your name is now being mentioned/shown with credits? If you are the one, haven't you been known in the circles for a long time anyway?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

mim

#19

Brightyangthing

You forgot to mention males trying to 'stuff' females, with no love, no emotion, unrequitedly. Sad indeed and criminal!

mim

The richest, most powerful generation that ever lived is embarking on a comfortable retirement. But why does it feel like they've pulled up the ladder with them?

The answer, in my view, comes a bit later in the article:

"We were more relaxed in the 70s," he says. "We felt comfortable leaving university and living in a squat. I sometimes wonder if today's students are tough enough to cope with real life; we didn't consume all the cars and clothes that they have now."

A recent study concluded that those born in the late 1980s expect to "have their cake and eat it", encouraging one newspaper to label Gen Y as "self-entitled whingers".'

BBC News Monday 29th March 2010

More seriously, the boomers were induced to be too self-interested and politically correct. There was a (demographic) Cold War on, you see.

#23

Yes Statist. I DO REALLY know quite a lot of (and about) people.
And yes, indeed, many of them need a lot of CAREful management. Many are rather simple and needy but few recognise or understand that fact.

NICE is rather too subjective a word for my liking.

From studying the people I REALLY know, I have long understood and concured with one of your frequent statements, that through a variety of dilutions in population we have a growing needy population and the numbers capable of servicing those needs is diminishing.

Thsi is NOT a happy situation but it is one which, I fear, from our current position is going to be very difficult to turn around.

Perhaps it is a tad on the manipulative side for you, but the inverted pyramid model may be the only way.

'No group has claimed responsibility'

BBC News on Moscow bombings 29 March 2010

Who might benefit from making Russians hostile to Muslims given the traditional support of Russia (and the SCO more widely) for the Islamic movements in the Middle East?

The Russians (and SCO) aren't stupid. There's a lot riding on Middle East politics at present.

Re Mephadrone. To ban or not to Ban, that WAS the question.

Why is Mephadrone (legal high) any different from other substances that are known to be addictive and cause harm. Such as tobacco/nicotine and alcohol, that are also widely available on our high streets.

Wonder if it might possibly have something to do with revenue and control thereof.

Reminds me of BSE crises when it became illegal to purchase a product with the minutest possibility of causing harm to a very small percentage of the population, whilst one could stil buy booze and fags that cause much more harm to far more people - BUT you got a health warning delivered with the product. So, That's OK then?

The same will be true of these sort of drugs. They will be sourced and consumed just as widely as Beef on the Bone was, by those who knew where to get it and were prepared to take the risk.

Mad Moo? Me? Never!

..the three men vying to be chancellor after the general election ..

then shouldn't balls rather than darling be the voice of labour?

27. brightyangthing 'Perhaps it is a tad on the manipulative side for you, but the inverted pyramid model may be the only way'

That was part of the allies post WWII policy for Germany. Look into the discussions. I reckon it 'leaked'. To whose advantage? :-(

give Vince the job..end of

will we in the same way as 9/11 stand by moscow and help invade the caucuses because the vain politicians think that way stands 'influence'?

Just watched the Panorama programme about the assasination of the Hamas leader by Israel/Mossad in Dubai.

First...it's quite obvious that Jane Corbin/BBC must work hand-in-glove with the FO.

Second....as I have posted previously....if the rule of law means anything in this country....why are the passport photos of the UK suspects not plastered all over the press in th eUK (and other implicated nations)....as the photos must have represented true-and-fair liknesses of the supects involved?

As many of the Israeli's suggested in the programme, "the end justified the means".....irrespective of national and international laws.

There is a word that describes the actions of this rogue state....and the word is state sponsored TERRORISM!

I forgot to add....how ironic Crimewatch followed Panorama tonight!

...maybe the Milibands are in for the night watching BBC1.

On the Chancellors debate whilst I thought Vince Cable justified the wide spread confidence in him he did let Darling get away with his notion that the size of banks did not matter and that Northern Rock went down too.

But didn't Northern Rock go down because of risky lending on buy-to-let and that was government yee-hah strategy.

Clearly of Barclays went down tomorrow its not just a headache for the Chancellor - it is too big to fail.

The other thing that they all skirted around, I suppose banking regulation is not a vote winner - but if the SEC and the FED were in Lehmans six months BEFORE it went down then we need to understand clearly why we would see the problems coming next time.

Given the way banks have resisted change and are determined to carry on business as usual there will be a next time.

With all due respect to the mighty Vince cable I still think that bonuses are a red herring -except where the bonuses are being paid with with taxpayer money - and won't change anything in the future.

What is a fair bonus if somebody makes a billion and who sets it?

To be fair though I think the Lib Dem notion of inter-party cooperation is a good idea if they can determine the scope of the playing field as there still seem to be very large unresolved questions.

Perhaps Mr. Volcker will provide some stimulus tomorrow?

#27

Though you live in Scotland, Brightyangthing, you always seemed to me to be a woman of the world knowing and mixing with lots of people.

mim

#27

BYT

If drawn or painted, an inverted pyramid could look like a V sign!

mim

#27 brightyangthing

"From studying the people I REALLY know, I have long understood and concured with one of your frequent statements, that through a variety of dilutions in population we have a growing needy population and the numbers capable of servicing those needs is diminishing."

As ever with the far right there is much ranting about "dilution" but no factual basis for what it is. If you are talking about race then there is no basis for what you say in science or in economics - and certainly not in ethics.Thats why the BNP for instance have failed miserably to resist the EHRC demand that they comply with the law on their racial membership policies.

As for servicing a needy population he only issue there is one of age - people live longer and so the aged and economically unproductive will form a greater portion of the population.

As with most things that statist says it is absolute nonsense at best and when you consider that this is a person who praises Adolf Hitler its not being extravagant to say evil at worst.

Whats wrong with Britain?... watch crime watch and you'll get some answers!

As for statist #31

"That was part of the allies post WWII policy for Germany. Look into the discussions. I reckon it 'leaked'. To whose advantage? :-("

As ever you are happy to imply your belief in the policies of Hitler but are too afraid to state it as history shows that he was a maniac that murdered the innocents in their millions and left some 70 million dead in Europe.

As for "to whose advantage" this is your tiresome and as ever adolescent tirade against Jews that you have always failed miserably to justify on any level.

As with all things National Socialist its just hysterical rhetoric based on an insane ideology and a malevolent will.

That's why you always skirt around tiny historical details - like the Holocaust.

'Tonight the three men vying to be chancellor after the general election'

They're ALL Liberal-Democrats. All they really disagree over is precisely how they will implement essentially the same state-busting policies.

'In the end this is a democratic society' says G.O. - but China's a democratic society too, they just implement it differently to the above three parties!

'cross-party cooperation'.................. think about it.

for my mate GO1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwO6v9POt74

#15 statist

"This issue is, in my view, all about immunity - self vs non self, which is central to survival. Those who assert otherwise don't know what they are talking about, and certainly can't known about haplotypes, histocompatibility and the immune system."

As somebody who used to rant on about IQ and race and demographics every five minutes it all went very quiet after it was pointed out to you that the science behind "The Incredible Human Journey" shows that differences between the races are cosmetic due to climate adaptations.

The Rageh Omah "Race and Intelligence" showed also that there are clear reasons for differences between the races in IQ - if you even consider IQ to be serious.

You did not take the opportunity to point out that you admire the policies of Hitler as that would help people understand the subtext of your comment:

"Don't let them anywhere near jobs which require people to behave responsibly with respect to blood transfusions etc or tissue typing etc. They have a poor ability to discriminate, which is just indicative of low intelligence and poor educability"

Most people would prefer that those that discriminated like the BNP did not get a job in health.

Given discrimination has no grounds in science as shown by the fact that the BNP have been unable to muster a defence to the EHRC on racial membership it could be said that that is where the low intelligence lies.

Sometimes you just need to paint the big picture : "Ugh, ugh, love Hitler .... hate ethnic minorities ... ugh, ugh ..... " and so on and people can see straight away what kind of person you are.

They don't actually care whether you do know about "histocompatibility" or not - Mengele was pretty smart but he was evil and that's what people remember.

But then as you used to say "the Holocaust was made up to put people off statism".

So do you howl at the moon?

#29

BYT

Getting high

Give me some music and a pair of skates
And I shall get high, and happy as a pye in the sky!
Play me 'Padam' or 'Zadok the Priest'
And I'm away in twirls and a twist.
Speak to me kindly showing respect
And you are bound to have a new friend.

mim

#11 barriesingleton

"I assert my right to be most comfortable amongst people very like me, and progressively less so as they deviate from my self-referenced norm. When I was young this was relatively easy. Multiculturalism has impacted negatively.

But, I am differencist - the way Nature made me. "

Another way of putting it is you are part of the BNP "white middle class" propaganda campaign that has been going on for a while despite what Lee Barnes says.

As ever there is no justification for the claim that "Multiculturalism has impacted negatively" via evidence.

The fact that the BNP can't contest the EHRC demand that they comply with the law on racial membership shows how vacuous and empty your rhetoric is - as usual of course as you set a very low standard and frequently fail to live up to even that low standard.

#19

I do not think, Brightyanthing, that having the luck of earning pots of money and knowing how to look after it necessarily precludes one from being human.

mim

Cameron talking to the the warehouse workers (on the news at 10 tonight)...with his shirt sleeves rolled up, was the ultimate in patronisation.

For that act alone....a spoiled vote, will be the order of the day, as far as I am concerned.

'They' are all patronising scum! (i.e. every free-market loving liberal democratic persuasion party)

#39

I have no interests in directions, isms, or labels of any sort. And I make my own decisions based on what I see and can substantiate. And I have the ability some of the time to accept what may not be pretty or comfortable.

What I see/have seen (all around me) and can be substantiated by study of real facts and statistics is that our population (and NO, I am not talking about race or immigration – just numbers) IS

- That the numbers of higher educated people (those the growing aging/ailing population will require to pay taxes to support them in their dotage) are dwindling. Professional educated women/families are having fewer children and having them later.

- The lower educated people (those who will NEED taxes spent on them but who are less able to earn/pay in to the system) are breeding earlier, faster and in greater quantity.

I'm not brilliant at maths, but have figured that that can't carry on for long without there being a real crux point. If that CRUX point is reached BEFORE enough people figure it out and decide to take action in their own lives/communities, then I can see nothing very nice coming out of it.

See what has happened to pension funds and pension provision in the past decade. It has happened because we cannot afford the pensions that were planned based on projected growth and demographics decades before. How one gets the pendulum swinging back the other way, for the benefit of society as a whole I have no idea.

You will doubtless see this in the same foggy haze as you see everything that is unpleasant to consider but this mess is of our own making through greed and selfishness and a willingness to be sold a dream that does not exist in reality - at least not at a price most of us could afford or ultimately fund.

So what? Spend time and effort discouraging high birth rates in the most needy/least able
PLUS
Encourage the more able to have more children

OR

Wait for the riots, looting or worse. People turn feral pretty quickly when they don't get what they want. I know that I would rather do.

There's a programme on Channel 4 called 'Secret Millionaire', where anonymous millionaires donate a few tens of thousand of pounds of their wealth to some very deserving causes. They always look so happy when giving away their money donations.


....I guess we can only imagine how happy they would be if they gave all their wealth away!

#47
Indeed it does not Mim.

Yet the pursuit and acquisition of money does have a rather negative effect on a large number of people who DO use STUFF as a way of measuring their worth, often to the detriment of their own kith and kin and society at large.

A small re balance could go a very long way.

#39 -
'What is a fair bonus if somebody makes a billion and who sets it?'

Trouble is its delusional money - thought up maths gone crazy plus 'monstrous leverage' But all of this is quite normal to them.

'Rickards builds a foundation that the financial sector has grown to the grotesque. He makes a grand alert that in this dynamically complex system, the size of the maximum potential catastrophe is exponentially greater than ever. He calls it inescapable. Imagine a pendulum swing left and right, with each move farther and higher, producing greater supposed wealth and prosperity on the positive swing but greater recognized destruction and poverty on the negative swing. Here are some facts to point out the extraordinary extremes that make return to normalcy impossible. The ratio of world financial assets to world GDP grew from 100% in 1980 to 200% in 1993 to 316% in 2005. Over the same 25 year period, the absolute level of global financial assets increased from $12 trillion to $140 trillion. The total notional value of all credit swap contracts (bond insurance) increased from $106 trillion to $531 trillion between 2002 and 2006. The notional value of equity derivatives (stock index contracts) increased from $2.5 trillion to $11.9 trillion over the same period, while the notional value of credit default swaps increased from $2.2 trillion to $54.6 trillion. Margin debt of US brokerage firms more than doubled from $134.6 billion to $293.2 billion from 2002 to 2007, while the amount of total assets per dollar of equity at major US brokerage firms increased from approximately $20 to $26 in the same period. To say that such extensions represent fantastic and monstrous leverage is a gross under-statement. Resolving the current extreme situation is not possible or feasible.'

Ref : https://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1269374400.php

Please would the BBC, as an independent commentator, challenge political parties to spell out the 'marginal cost' of cuts, rather than the 'absolute cost' of cuts. Eg. if one cuts a job, do you count just the cost of the salary saving, or do you include the cost of the administration related to that job (which could be anything from insignificant to many thousands of pounds), and do you ignore the cost of paying the unemployment benefit due to the person who is now unemployed, and do you include the cost of the extra staff required to deal with the unemployment claim?

In short, ask how much do you actually save? Don't just ask how much wages do you save.

I'm an IT contractor - parties claim that they will cut IT projects...consequently, I lose my job, they lose my tax and NI, they have to pay my unemployment/family benefits/housing costs....where is the saving?

I listened to the bun fight tonight and just watching Paxman tonight, maled me mad. Thearrogance is unreal.

I have NEVER voted libdem because it is considered a wasted vote. But just hearing commentators refer to both makes me mad.I will be voting Libdem this time just because it is not lying layout or New Tory.

John Leigh, Cheltenham

The Foreign Office says that one should not allow their passports to be copied...

How does one stop that? Every Country now routinely copies them.

One goes into any hotel in Spain and they demand that you surrender your passport for local police control. If you want to buy anything in French supermarkets that costs more than 70 Euros you have to submit your ID and they photograph it into their computers.....

The Foreign Office MUST NOW include in VERY BIG LETTERS ...bigger than these ones... THAT IT IS AGAINST BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY FOR ANY COUNTRY OR ENTITY TO INSIST ON THE RIGHT TO COPY THIS PASSPORT!

I know that my own passport now resides on many hundreds of computers over which neither I nor the British Government have any control

Re: What's wrong with Britain?

Well, we've become lazy... migrants work harder - full stop... it's survival of the fittest... get used to it.

I agree with BYT...

ignorance breeds faster than sensitivity... end result... a horrible place to live

How many moderators do you have? Why does it take an hour to moderate just 4 contributions?

At last we see a newsnight programme which begins to see not the immediate threat from the banks, immigration or the absolute rubbish of party politics. Stupid idiotic politicians fighting over the bones of a country sinking under a sea of debt.

Finally a realisation that actually the UK doesn't make anything.

What IS the UK good at ? Closing down UK industry, selling UK industry off, allowing anyone into the UK regardless of their criminal past, creating a huge red tape burden to weigh down our industry, then importing the same products from abroad with no red tape, dividing social groups and selling useless products at vastly inflated prices to their own - and I include eductation within that sphere. Not only that we are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot, 1st in line to advocate taxes and limits on climate change - yet climate change doesn't exist and not only that CANNOT exist because nature ALWAYS seeks a balance.

We see a group of chancellors and wannabe chancellors lined up blaming each other for past mistakes and potential mistakes on taxes and spending. Yet ALL of them were in power as the banks gave 800 BILLION in FORIEGN DEBT to fuel house prices. None of them were up in arms as debt rocketed and Labour invested money in public services which do nothing other than lose money.

To make money you have to invest in industries which MAKE money, even if those products do nothing than stem imports then it IS worhtwhile.

No one is taking the responcibility for the past.

No one has the vision for the future.

Even "Brown Out's" Green policy is a joke because we don't even make the machines which would forefill such a policy.

The first step along a path for renewal would be the acceptance that the UK comes 1st, not Scotland, not Wales, not Northern Island or some backwater in some foreign land. That means that ALL industries should be favoured no matter who owns them, what party political traditionally was associated with that industry is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT or how it is going to affect some obscure poor souls in some backwater ditch hole of a country - give them as much consideration as they have given us - which is none what-so-ever.

The UK comes 1st, 2nd, 3rd and last. That means we go out and buy UK produce 1st.

If we don't make we start up schemes to make the products, learn and copy existing products.

Then we make them better and sell their own products back to them.

If products are coming in from abroad we do everything legally possible to inhibit them, tax them, fine them, stick them full of red tape, slur them in the media and in politics.

We NEVER, EVER sell what we have because once the market niche is established it takes GENERATIONS to get it back, NEVER SELL.

The game has gone on for too long and there is only one way out,, we the UK come 1st.

Top notch Jeremy tonight with Milliband/Hammond/Browne :o)
Although miaowmiaow (plant food!) has now been made illegal, will it really prevent drug related deaths? If someone wants whatever substance badly enough, they will always find it.......

Milliband strikes you as the kinda fella that could suck a golfball through a garden hose. Minister for the weather!...I thought of how the Govt could start saving money, straight of the bat when I saw his job description.

PERHAPS CRIME IS A VIABLE EMPLOYER (#53)

A valid question Joe. I suggested, recently, that all the downstream consequences of crime employ a lot of people, all needing a sandwich at lunch time and all the other infrastructure to function. Can we afford to cut crime - really?

I just love it how people like to blame us foreigners for all that is wrong with the country. While some of it might be true, here is a thought: What about the billions wasted over the years and to this day paying benefits for foreigners AND British people who could be working???? If you are a hard working ambitious person and you manage to succeed and make something out of yourself, you get taxed to the hills! If you are lazy and don’t want to work a day in your life even though you are fit to, get pregnant at 16 and have your home and your living paid for, courtesy of the "beautiful" British benefit policy. It always amazes me how this kind of people cannot find a job, but are so good at playing the system. The same goes to our tax policy. It isn't that the foreigners are stealing the jobs; the companies are getting fed up of the ever increasing taxes and safety policies and moving abroad! The people who lost their jobs in this documentary weren't replaced by foreigners, but were made redundant when the companies shut, broke or relocated.
The reality is this country has become too expensive and anyone with qualifications or/and a profitable business is moving elsewhere, even the foreigners themselves! So let's stop blaming them and open our eyes to the real issue: the benefit and tax systems is build to exploit hard working people and Labour is trying to push the knife a little bit deeper.

Paul Mason's report was very well done and the fact that so many industries have been lost has been to do with poor management and inability to work inclusively with the unions over the last 60 years, after WW 2.

Britain is a museum largely unaffected by wars compared to Europe Mr Mason could be much more positive by advising the following:
1. Better Hotels and similar establishments. Good food at reasonable price.
2. Excellent roads left hand drive(LHD), good employment oportunities too, we cannot beat them why not join them.
3. Improved railways and bus transport. Employment too.
4. Using The National Trust and similar non Goverment bodies, gardens, sights of natural beauty, theatre, music, art, and more to advise on how to make visitors feel at home.

Britain does make very good foreign cars, high tech and many other things, let the people move where the work is and make it easy. As one could say, "We ai'nt dead yet!"

Deon Melck

ETA GB 1977 ex RSA mum born in Twickenham 1907. I would love to give you my views having worked in the UK, Europe, India, and South Africa.

Crazies Hill, Berkshire

#49

Brightyanthing

I've been trying to avoid talking too much about immigration being originally an immigrant myself. However, the next generations of the current intake of immigrants will consider themselves primarily as British not only representing the UK at Olympics or The World Cup, etc, but also working /probably carrying on the ambitions of their parents/predecessors of making something out of their lives/ and thus contributing to this country's coffers and breeding and so on. Which doesn't mean, of course, that your points are not valid but how does one go about changing the breeding culture I have no idea.

mim

#51

Alas, Brightyangthing, your words ring true. From my own experience even seemingly 'very nice' people can get blinded by prospects of big bucks coming their way making them supress basic human instincts and sensibilities. Not that it would stop me pursuing my own way of being. In fact, I've taken huge risks of ending up with just about nothing in terms of possessions, etc. but I do not regret my decisions. For the time being, I have enough clothes to last me for quite a few years to come. As much as I like to dress up every now and then it's never been one of my priorities. I also have enough linen, towels, pots and pans and kitchen utensils to last me till the end of my days. So, as long as there is love and music and dance.... Oh, cigarettes, wine and a functioning bike to ride, I'm happy (^_^).

mim

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

How about that?

Re: An official EU decision:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,686305,00.html

mim

'will be asked by the government'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7535895/Banks-asked-to-fund-rival-from-Post-Office.html

'Asked' is no good - needs to be imposed via tax or other measures. Its extremely important to get across why this is necessary and Brown will not do it. So long as this new banking doesn't go the same way as the others ie massive leverage and insane derivatives then get it on.

If people understand why its so dangerous to now be involved with big banks and that in the long term lower returns are better than say the 'Iceland model' I would have some hope. Otherwise those outside the metropolis that have been speaking with Paul are doomed to more incentivised devastation. Where is the education ? At least Arianna seeks to educate the 'why' of all this to the general public where 'up front'and simplified is it happening here? As yet not feeling much will to make this happen or anyone getting across the urgency to make people understand the importance of this.

What is Mr Cameron going to do on this front ?

May I recommend Paul Masons blog and the comments, interesting reading. I think snobbery and the class system are thriving very well here still.
Why do so many bloggers hate their english countrymen?

61. kevseywevsey 'Milliband strikes you as the kinda fella that could suck a golfball through a garden hose. Minister for the weather!...I thought of how the Govt could start saving money, straight of the bat when I saw his job description.'

You may be confusing the Milibands with Millipedes. The former have only one L. ;-)

WOW what massive growth https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8594409.stm

I'm so pleased those immigrants are working very hard for us! ; )

63. Paula Hardman 'If you are a hard working ambitious person and you manage to succeed and make something out of yourself, you get taxed to the hills! If you are lazy and don’t want to work a day in your life even though you are fit to, get pregnant at 16 and have your home and your living paid for, courtesy of the "beautiful" British benefit policy. It always amazes me how this kind of people cannot find a job, but are so good at playing the system.'

There are some of those 'magic' words again 'hard-working' vs. 'lazy'. When most people use such terms they use them as psychological verbs in lieu of a grasp of physical (dis)abilities. What is more likley, that human abilities are diverse (Normally Distributed) and that some people are made in ways so that they can not do some things very well, whilst others can, or that all people could do anything if they6 just 'tried' or 'applied themselves'?

The (shocking to some) fact is that there is no evdience that people can make themselves or other people do things if they are not 'cut out' (i.e. genetically hard wired/inclined/prepared) to do so. We shape what nature selects, and nature selected behaviours long ago, at a time when we had no choice in the matter (we did not choose to be conceived). This is why populations have to be actively managed. This is what China now does actively manage its population. Singapre tried form the 60s through 90s. How did its vocal sub-populatin describe it?

China has a mean IQ of about 105. Work out the Normal Distribution parameters (e.g. % undr teh crive at each SD) of that distribution with a Standard Deviation of 15, bearing in mind the population size of 1.1 billion. Think engineers, doctors etc (largely urban - proletarians) at one end, and paddy-field workers etc (rural - peasants) at the other

Our education system misleads people. Teachers largely don't know what hey are doing any more than most people know how their brains or MHC's work. That doesn't stop them from telling you all sorts though.......for some reason they have a great sense of entitlement - what has encouraged that?

It's been most cleverly done...

WOW AND DOUBLE WOW (#72)

I keep meaning to ask the mathematically trained bloggers: Should there not be an error-band on these growth figures? I would guess, for something as diffuse as overall growth, in an economy, the band would easily swallow a few decimal points.

Was it yesterday a link showed the money shipped out by immigrants? Is that taken off the 'net advantage' before it is officially trumpeted? After the war, you could only take a few quid out the country (people filled their shoes) and we were bankrupt then - just like now.

I'm confused. You don't think a Manseman with a Moral Compass would lead a government that lied to us, do you? If he IS lying, Saintly Tony will need to take him gently to one side to tell him about godliness!

49. brightyangthing 'I have no interests in directions...'

Doesn't that risk making you vulnerable to theft, plagiarism, loss of humility etc?

'isms'

Bet you are, we all are.

'or labels of any sort.'

Bet you have major problems in supermarkets etc then! In fact, because nouns are labels, one can't discriminate without them. Language is tyrannical in this respect (Wittgenstein).

'And I make my own decisions based on what I see and can substantiate.'

We all do. We have no choice in the matter. Some of us just make poorer decisions than others surely, largely by daftly bending over backwards in order not to 'discriminate.'. Some have socially learned that this may make them look good. It's a kind of 'HELLO', girlie, social psychology alas.

'And I have the ability some of the time to accept what may not be pretty or comfortable.'

You do indeed, and for that, you have my genuine respect.

74. barriesingleton 'I keep meaning to ask the mathematically trained bloggers: Should there not be an error-band on these growth figures? I would guess, for something as diffuse as overall growth, in an economy, the band would easily swallow a few decimal points.'

But are you listening to the answers?

The people writing the articles are journalists not scientists/engineers etc. The former have feminized brains. They did verbally based courses most of their lives. Thus they don't talk or write for anyone but themselves and their ilk.

Error bands/margins etc = geeky. Requires grasp of statistics and measurement etc.

Paul Mason goes around the country and reports on what has been posted here for years (and before that to Comment Is Free in the Guardian, where it was frequently deleted by the protectors of public fantasy/freedom/anarchism - one or two readers here actually saw that back in 2005/6).

Why is any of what we are hearing now a surprise? Answer = because most people have been deluding themselves for ages, and because they become outraged when they're forced to face the empirical facts (as this makes them feel 'thick', which is at odds with their preferred self-image).

#74 That was JC (#53) on Pauls blog Barrie.

apparently migrants have sent £31.5 billion home in the last 10 years. which is £31 billion less that is multiplying through the economy. how many jobs would that support? how many more migrants do we need above the number of uk unemployed [or hidden in other govt stats]? for a govt to neglect the domestic workforce and to have built a strategy upon migrants is going to lead to one thing. easy wins for BNP.

An interesting point you make there tho Barrie, is this money counted in our "growth" figures?

Yup I went abroad in 1963, the money I took with me had to be written in my passport, with a receipt from the bank. So taking money out was restricted for a long time after the war.

I notice the huge rise in growth is all centred in the "service, construction, and agricultural" areas, and that's where most immigrants work now, so who's growth is it theirs or ours.

Thought you'd love this one about our Tone! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262174/Web-companies-hides-Tony-Blair-millions.html

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Another man who thinks we haven't got wisdom Barrie! ; )

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7537521/James-Lovelock-humans-are-too-stupid-to-prevent-climate-change-says-maverick-scientist.html

Milliband and 'fairness'

that word again. fairness. jedi mind tricks. its code for saying there is no such thing as the good. which leads to nihilism.

Blair's speech: he said some see excitement where others see on;ly fear........

Yes. Those people tend to be psychopathic (or other Axis II cluster B Personality Disordered) people.

They are indeed charismatic, exciting etc, but their charm and glib rhetoric may well come from their lack of brakes - where brakes make most people normal, social and sensitive to others and life's complexities. Psychopaths are human predators. Beware of their charm.

science strop

political decisions always trump science.

79. ecolizzy 'Another man who thinks we haven't got wisdom Barrie! ; )'

We can measure intelligence nationally (if only by proxies like CATs and PISA) and fertility, we can't measure 'wisdom'. So before you and barrie smugly make out there's some advantage to that, imagine a plumber coming out and telling you there's too much ether in your CH system, and that what you need is a good 'going over'.

Stop appealing to immeasurables - as one can't do nuffink wiv 'em and one just gets ripped off. On the other hand, if you do just want nice sounding rhetoric, see Tony Blair and his speeches (but at least ask who writes them!). Maybe barrie missed his vocation? ;-)

80. jauntycyclist 'that word again. fairness. jedi mind tricks. its code for saying there is no such thing as the good. which leads to nihilism.'

Atavistic belief in 'the good', on the other hand, seems to lead one to hubrism. Which is worse, nihilism or hubrism? Might these be two sides of the same Manichaean coin?

Things really have moved on. These days, we operate in terms of monoamine systems (e.g. catecholamines vs indoleamines, e.g. dopamine vs 5-HT) and genetic diversity at the pre and post synaptic receptor levels.

Like to know more, or are you happy to stick with how things were falsely believed a few thousand years ago like the geocentricists and polytheists etc?

PANDAMAN: "MY WHOLE BEING IS PREDECATED ON FAIRNESS" (#80)

They are just SOOOOOO dumb jaunty. I remember the song about 'Johnnie One Note'. Labour might as well just chant 'fairness' in a mantra drone.

Puke.

NOT CLEVER ENOUGH AND TOO UNWISE TO KNOW (#79 link)

Hi Lizzy. I notice Lovelock says 'not clever enough' and I take his point (though for me the bottom line is, as you indicate, wisdom). I have long regarded change as the norm; even the Greeks (long ago) said: "All is Flux". I reckon wisdom decrees preparedness (not quite preparation) for change, and tight monitoring. That is in tune with Lovelock, but I'm not sure I would go for inland sea-walls though!

Anyway - I've got my snorkel upstairs with the candles and windup radio.

WHEN FAIRLY = TOTALLY

Just heard Blair use 'fairly' - even in all his greatness he is 'on message'.

Totally duplicitous.

Dr Polly Taylor (of the AMCD) did a valiant effort to behave like an intelligent/responsible scientist last night. Sadly, I didn't get the impression that verbally fluent Jeremy Paxman understood (or cared) why she was so halting in her speech. He appeared to think he knew better.

Until the Newsnight Production Team comes to better understand/respect what Taylor was trying to communicate, and thence demonstably show far more respect for its viewers too, it will, I fear, just continue to go downhill/market. It must try to grasp that bright people are rare, and that without those who are both bright, and technically able, this country is productively and economically finished (including Newsnight!).

This makes the 31.5 billion sent home by immigrants, pale into insignificance.... EU regs 'eh?!

https://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-centre/pressrelease.aspx?pressreleaseid=135

Nulab electionering quote "Fair"

Cons electionering quote "Change"

What are we talking about the weather, next it will be Rain and Storms or perhaps even Dry! ; )

84

you have confused mechanics with philosophy. the standard reductionist flaw.

if the logic of 2+2 held good since the beginning of time why discard it just because its 'old'?

the claim of logic looks a bit silly if someone has not studied the father of logic and the dialectic.

all media drama is based on structures invented thousand of years ago. as is the principle of democracy.

worship mechanics if you like but to worship just because it is 'new' seems a strange idol?

when 2+2 is 'out of date' come back.

85

the trouble with taking fairness as the highest idea of the mind is that it demands human sacrifice. people died when the govt refused to allow people to buy a drug because they trotted out the 'not everyone could have it so no one should have it' mantra. The examples go on.

the doctrine of fairness is idol worship that demands human sacrifice.

'FAIRNESS' IS BEING TOUTED BY A BUNCH OF UNFAIR MANIPULATORS (#91)

No one can be in any doubt that "IT'S NOT FAIR" is the universal cry of the young. Maturity (if achieved) brings a realisation that Nature is NOT fair; we learn to live with unfairness. It follows that the only grown-ups who would purport to bring fairness, are either FOOLS OR KNAVES.

When you scrape the outer layer of deviousness, obfuscation, dogma, dissembling and mendaciousness (aka crud) from any politician, you ALWAYS find beneath a FOOL or a KNAVE.

THAT'S ANOTHER THING WRONG WITH BRITAIN PAUL.

90. jauntycyclist 'you have confused mechanics with philosophy. the standard reductionist flaw.'

No, you just don't understand what a) logic is b) philsophy is or c) what reductionism is.

'if the logic of 2+2 held good since the beginning of time why discard it just because its 'old'?'

It all changed in 1879 with Frege as did the foundations of mathematics.

'the claim of logic looks a bit silly if someone has not studied the father of logic and the dialectic.'

You clearly haven't studied any Frege or Russell etc.

'all media drama is based on structures invented thousand of years ago. as is the principle of democracy.'

I'm not talking about media drama. You have far too many (unquestioned) assumptions. Through these, you reveal your prejudices. You have lots of them. You don't appea rto know how to questin them either. You must be self-taught.

'worship mechanics if you like but to worship just because it is 'new' seems a strange idol?'

No, it's valued because it works, not because it's new.

'when 2+2 is 'out of date' come back.'

I'm back. The above is just a useful tautology for scientists. Read 'Two Dogmas of Empircism' and learn something useful.

I want to why nobody on Newsnight ever seems to mention the fact that over the past 30 years successive governments in this country have sold off everything we owned and allowed all our manufacturers to out-source to China and India.
Now the recession is here the politicians all look aghast when we look at the empty industrial sights such as in Stoke on Trent in SHOCK HORROR!. WE DO NOT OWN ANYTHING ANYMORE!! Not only has virtually everything gone but most of our "assets" are now controlled by foreign companies and even foreign governments. why are these things not mentioned more on Newsnight ? SO MUCH FOR FREE MARKET ECONOMICS _ the biggest con of all time!!

What this country needs is a new direction a purpose . We need to allow the people like me and you to feel . That being a part of the majority is the right place to be . And that all minoritys must change and join us the majority. And not try and change the face of our country to apees the minority . We need a new party .And we need to change the mind set of millions . That its there right to take out as much as they can get . And not put anything in . But it will never happen . All the while we have so many fence sitting LIB LEFTWING LABOUR idiots controlling us and everything we do . Everyone i have spoken to confirms to me that we are all in agreeance . That the time for this country and its people may have to make a stand a form a new party . One for me and you . And our future s . And no blair should crall back to where he has been hiding