Friday 19 February 2010

Sounds good so far, finishing the week on an ethical note - life and death, i.e. will power to live and let live vs will power to die and let die....

mim

TA TA 2 The Kafata
they dont like it up em neither do eye
they dont tell u theese tings
prostate cancer stay away from it
stand away from the vehicle
dont pull it oot theres a ballon on the end of it
did 21/24 jumps in 1 day on queens AVE out of a balloon
I enjoyed it
i did not enjoy the kafata ta ta

" ...lack of political consensus...." (Note spelling NOT concensus)

James Naughtie was upset about "consensus" this morning. And then Radio 5 was upset about "consensus". And now its troubling you. Are you going to explain why the BBC thinks voters should be robbed of choice by the Conservatives abandoning their plans - for the elderly or for high speed rail links - and wasting their time discussing Labour's plans instead?

Can't wait to see Jeremy back tonight :o)

World at One are also bothered about consensus. It looks as though you're all singing from the same crib sheet.

#1 Mim

Your previous post #30, very beautifully done and I dont disagree with it, in fact I live for it. Did you consider the possibility that we may both be correct?

Barrie,

Mutual.

Has Alistair Campbell elaborated any more on the "vilification" that had previously made him so tearful? No counter campaign?

It all rather sounded like legitimate questions to me and coming from the media he would expect that with the Chilcott inquiry running.

Perhaps people just won't accept spin as fact any more although Gordon does continue to try to portray the economic crisis that may still take the UK out as a quirky "unique global economic phenomenon".

#6

Well, yes, Jericoa, every day, but let me finish on: (^_^)

P.S. Rather than dooming & glooming, I've been doodling recently....

mim

Is Croquet Prescott, the champion of the working people, going to toe the line on AV in public? Is this cynical manoeuvre simply so cynical that it will repel the PR seeking floating voters and Lib Dems tired of the arrogance bred by the two party system?

Meanwhile has Quentin Davies said anything about the jaw dropping "coat hanger" bomb detector fiasco as yet? How could this happen and were people for some reason looking in the wrong direction?

#8 addendum

doodling and knitting

knitting and spinning

spinning and snapping

mim

#10 addendum

absorbing and snap shooting

London's amazing

the Spring is coming

birds will be singing

mim

Mr Brown - 2010

''Either governments co-operate internationally or the unfettered markets will fail us again,'' he warned. "

Oh dear

Mr Brown - 2005

'In the old regulatory model – which started in Victorian times – the implicit regulatory principle has been 100 per cent inspection of premises, procedures and practices irrespective of known risks or past results. The theory has been to inspect everyone continuously, demand information wholesale, and require forms to be filled in at all times, the only barrier to the blanket approach a lack of resources.

The new model we propose is quite different. In a risk based approach there is no inspection without justification, no form filling without justification, and no information requirements without justification. Not just a light touch but a limited touch. Instead of routine regulation attempting to cover all, we adopt a risk based approach which targets only the necessary few. '

Oh dear me

Ref : https://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/better_regulation_action_plan.htm

THE PAPERLESS OFFICE AND THE WORK-FROM-HOME EMPLOYEE

What happened to the Cyber-Age and all its advantages? I am well aware that 'travel elevates the executive' but that is only because executives are juvenile souls, needy of status, engaging in the St Vitus Dance of nihilistic motion.

Would it not be smart to CURE THE DMANED DISEASE rather than buy another train-set for them to play with? One moment we are wringing our hands over care of the elderly, and the next adding to the means by which families become generationally dispersed, such that long-distance compassion becomes the norm - with side dishes of angst and guilt.

With forward planning like this, one might almost infer that Westminster does NOT house our finest minds? Or is it just Brown the Devious, at it again?

12. flicks Yes - Mr Brown seems to be a bit of a 'plonker' doesn't he?

But maybe he was chosen/selected like other high profile 'plonkers'? Maybe he was selected for his appetite for fame and power - his craving for celebrity/recognition/credit? His wanting to be a 'winner'?

BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE - AN ENTRENCHED HUMAN TRAIT (#9)

Bogus 'detector' kit - all religions - 'democracy' - just war - Brown's Moral Compass - Blairs integrity - The Big Bang - global warming - money - 'Terror'.

The fault dear Brutus . . .

I GET YOUR DRIFT STATIST - BUT (#14)

Must I accept that there is a Derren factor in the Brown installation? The ninnies below are even noisier plonkers than James G himself, they could not engineer a plasticene poo. Where is Smersch Headquarters? Or should I say: who amount to the nerve-centre, and how was Brown (detail by detail) manoeuvred to his position? After all: Derren Browns tricks are ALL explainable.

Of course, Tony's best trick was to tell us he had a whole pack up his sleeve that he couldn't show us. Dear sweet IDS - he believed Tony. 'One plonker to bring them all, and down the toilet flush them.'

An Israeli couple had these comments:
Woman: "I think it's not right to take identities from people from your own country, but I don't think we should be concerned about it.
Man: Yeah, it's not something to be concerned about.
Reporter: Why not be concerned?
Woman: "Because it's actually for the good of our country."'

Voice of America - Friday 19th February 2010

Some people eh?

There's no telling some people... and there's no telling some people that there's no telling some people.

I think I've cracked it. We need high speed trains to Scotland (and probably Wales too) so that all of England's elderly population can move there to take advantage of their free care for the elderly schemes. Everyone knows the elderly prefer travelling by train. It is sheer genius, sheer genius. Care for the elderly solved. How dare you all question Grodon's genius.

nothing on the treason? where the FO has been caught lying to the british people for the interests of another state?

given their performance in the iraq inquiry the FO has a track record to spin a line that is economical with the reality?

look at the difference when mossad tried this with New Zealand and what a real government of the uk would be doing on behalf of the british people.

'Mossad spies' jailed over New Zealand passport fraud

...The prime minister of New Zealand angrily denounced Israel and imposed diplomatic sanctions on it after two suspected Mossad agents were jailed for six months for trying on false grounds to obtain a New Zealand passport.

High-level visits between the two countries will be cancelled, visa restrictions imposed for Israeli officials, and an expected visit to New Zealand by Moshe Katsov, the Israeli president, later this year has been cancelled.

Ms Clark said Israel had ignored requests made three months ago for an explanation and an apology.

and in canada

..A 1997 incident in which Mossad agents used fake Canadian passports in an attempt to assassinate the Hamas leader, Sheikh Khaled Mashal, caused the Israeli ambassador to be ordered out of Canada until Tel Aviv promised to cease the practice...

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/16/israel

every other country sees it as serious enough to expel ambassadors etc. but not this Govt nor the BBC even bother to report this story today.


will the uk govt expel the israeli ambassador until they promise not to do it again?

They do nothing but seek to quieten the story and hope it goes away. this is an open and shut case of treason. of agents working for a foreign state at the highest level of government.

16. barriesingleton 'The ninnies below are even noisier plonkers than James G himself, they could not engineer a plasticene poo.'

Forgive me for repeating myself, but isn't that the (liberal-democratic) idea?

What I find a bit quaint/sad, is that so many people still expect something positive (i.e constructive) from these people.

more on the new zealand case as a model of how a govt that puts its own people first can deal with the israelis.

there israel expressed 'sorrow' and wrote a letter of apology [in the end] saying they would not do it again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel_%E2%80%93_New_Zealand_spy_scandal

21. jauntycyclist 'israel expressed 'sorrow' and wrote a letter of apology [in the end] saying they would not do it again.'

They told lies jauntycyclist, didn't they?

Cognitive rehabilitation programmes - they just don't work, don't you know....

...Israel promised London it would not indulge in identity theft again after eight British passports were found during a 1987 Mossad operation in West Germany....

so much for israeli 'promises'?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/article.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=10627265

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher did order the closure of the Mossad station in London that remained closed for 11 years after the last passport

i don't think we will get anything the new zealand, canadian or even a real british govt that puts its own people first would have done.

22

The FO can 'find' wmd in iraq but not if a 'strategic' partner is yanking our chain [again]?

going by what a real government that puts its own people first would do the FO could lay out the programme of rehabilitation for israel by saying if they do not co-operate within 2 months or so then mossad in the uk be closed down [like thatcher did], expel the [ambassador] until they promise [again] not to do it again and cancel visits and insist on visas etc.

is milliband up to putting the british people first? we will know in a couple of months.

I've noticed that when Jeremy is on, quite often, a decision about the contents of Newsnighf's is made much more quickly than otherwise.

mim

24. jauntycyclist - 'going by what a real government that puts its own people first would do the FO could lay out the programme of rehabilitation for israel by saying if they do not co-operate within 2 months or so then mossad in the uk be closed down [like thatcher did], expel the [ambassador] until they promise [again] not to do it again and cancel visits and insist on visas etc.'

Twwwwaaaackkkkk! No grass-hopper!

'A real government that puts its own people first' would have said:- this is a rogue/evil regime which we have very good grounds to suspect has WMDs, is definitely not signed up to the NPT nor to the ICC, is in breach of numerous UN Resolutions, and poses a clear threat to regional stability if not the world. Unless it opens its doors to the IAEA for inspection and desists from all aggressive actions in Palestine and other parts of the world, it will be disarmed, have its regime changed, and will policed by the UN until further notice.

Now that's what a real government would do, jauntycyclist.

TERMINALLY WELL

I am looking forward to tonight’s debate on assisted suicide, and will withhold most of my thoughts on this and complex and emotive subject until after that.

I was fortunate enough to have come into this world TERMINALLY WELL, and thankfully, some half a century plus later remain pretty well so. However, if and when I should cease to be so, but be in control of my mental faculties, I know what I should like to do, and hope that I will be able to do so with any remaining families blessing but without the need for their assistance.

My wake will be on the West Coast of Scotland, with the mountains to my back, the sea in front of me. A perfect sunset might be too much to ask for. I am NOT issuing invitations just yet.

This topic DOES to some extent dovetail into the current issue of the care of the elderly albeit not all assisted suicide/ desire to control personal end of life scenarios are age related.

Sadly, the Ray Gosling affair has probably done more harm than good in the desire for open and honest debate on the issues surrounding support for such options.

Re: consensus

There are issues where consensus can, or even should be actively sought without any silly, point scoring games that seems so typical of the political process not only in this country but almost everywhere.

By the way, I've just been to a fashion show at the French Institut called 'Old Ladies Rebellion' and it was beautiful! As for myself, I was just wearing my ice rink fleece.and carried a huge, heavy bag full of life's necessities, etc

mim

BYT - I am also looking forward to tonight's discussion on assisted suicide. I would like to have the option of assisted suicide available to me if I was suffering from terminal illness to avoid a painful and undignified end. I'm not entirely convinced by the thin end of the wedge argument although I can see how people can bend legislation - for example, I'm fairly sure that the current use of the abortion laws was not what was intended by many of those MPs who voted for it.

A recent experience of the death of a close family member has reinforced my view that assisted suicide should be permitted. The family member in question was 90 years old, frail and had suffered mini-strokes which left her unable to swallow. The hospital staff would not let her eat or drink because of the loss of her swallowing reflex and the fear that she might inhale food or water and end up with pneumonia. She was left on a drip to waste away over several (about 6) weeks. There was seemingly no real propsect of recovery. The medical staff tried on several occasions to inset a tube so that she could be tube fed. They were unsuccesful. The attempts left my relative distressed - she reached the point when she became distressed by the knowledge that the staff were going to try to tube her. On several occasions she questioned what she was still doing here, i.e. what she was still doing alive. Certain members of junior medical staff threatened on a few occasions to fit a "peg" (I think this is what it is called) - essentially a tube through the wall of the abdomen into the stomach - to feed her with. On each occasion, family members had to intervene by speaking to the consultant in charge of her care to stop this. The consultant response was that the procedure would have killed her. The level of care given was patchy - the family were left to provide personal care such cleaning dentures, brushing hair, etc. If there had been no family, presumably, these things would have been neglected.


It seemed to me that everyone (family and medical staff) knew that my relative was going to die. My relative expressed the wish to no longer be alive. Bearing this in mind, I found the manner of her death extremely sad. My relative slowly wasted way, tormented by the fact that she could not drink - she was extremely thirsty despite being on a fluid drip. In the same situation, I would like the option of accelerating my death. Many would say that in the case I have described, the real issue is the standard of care provided; if better care was available, my relative's end could have been made more comfortable and more dignified. Surely these people must face the reality of the situation - that this level of care does not exist in practice in many cases and the situation is unlikley to improve.

London to Newcastle 284miles less than 2 hours 50 mins by train.

London to Truro 284miles 5 hours by train.

Its the service to the South West that needs improving not the North. And we can't spent billions of pounds on a new train line just for the benefits of the idiots who're moving to Salford.

#30

Problem is MaggieL

Last time I was there, there weren't a whole heap of national or International businesses in Truro.

Both are still faster than the equivalent by road and probably air if talking door to door.

26

possibly.

given the israeli agent said they expect the uk to 'go through the motions' then a government that puts its own people first will

1. Close down mossad in uk for 10 plus years [like Mrs Thatcher]

2. Expel the Israeli ambassador [like Canada]

3. Cancel visits and restrict access [like New Zealand]

given the past history of what happened are those the 'going through the motions' the israeli meant? If not why not?

THE 'GOOD DEATH' IN THE NEW MILLENNIUM (#27)

Great idea BYT. Especially the Sunset! Register the idea quick - it beats ballooning! (:o)

when you get cartoons like this you know something is wrong?

https://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/the-daily-cartoon-760940.html

#29 Nedafo

So sad for your relative (and those having to witness it)

Recently, a relative who had been a senior surgeon in Leeds area was admitted to hospital with failing health aged 84. After taking full history (for about the third time) a terrified Registrar risked taking his hand and asking him how he felt, in himself, in his spirit. He gave her a weak smile and said "I've had enough dear".

After a day of intensive tests, and a visit from family, he suffered fatal heart failure in the night.

A blessing for all as much as we miss him.

OH DEAR - WILL HILLARY STILL LOVE HIM?

Thank goodness it's not anti-Semitic Jaunty. Mazel tov.

This isn't going to happen but it says something about how some are thinking the unthinkable in the US :

https://www.palmettoscoop.com/2010/02/17/bill-would-ban-federal-currency-in-sc/

#27

Glad to hear you're well, BYT. If not for a few hiccups I've been experiencing recently, strength and energy,confirmed by numerous tests and examinations, are on my side.

Re: your sunset, I'll get back to you on that once I've shifted myself from a starry cafe from where I'm blogging at this precise moment in tine while musing simultaneusly about Don Quixot on his horse.

mim

36

i'm sure any pro british act will be called A/S. they are probably depending upon it to turn the weak minded into jellyfish. at the end of the day you cannot be pro two different states interests. a man cannot serve two masters.

mrs t in the Great offices of state tv show on iplayer [foreign office] said you cannot appease bad behaviour as it just emboldens them to do more. she had no trouble banning mossad for 10 years. did they dare call her A/S?

WHILE A 'LIGHT TOUCH REGULATION AND LOW TAX ENVIRONMENT' OUGHT TO BE STRIVEN FOR IN THE UK: THE UK GOVT, WORKING WITH LEADING UK BUSINESS INTERESTS COULD GREATLY AMPLIFY THE BENEFITS OF SUCH AN ENVIRONMENT BY ESTABLISHING AND EMPOWERING AN 'INDUSTRY DIRECTION SETTING COMMISSION' OR SIMILAR BODY...

Besides strengthening existing UK businesses and enhancing their respective areas of expertise, an objective of such an 'industry direction setting' body could be developing new products and services for eventual export...

A good example could be products and services related to public and business-related transport...

With the many billions upon billions of pounds being allocated as UK economic stimulus by the current govt, it could only make constructive sense for some of this money to be put towards the establishment of a rail transport R & D technology centre/campus in the UK... if necessary with the UK govt as a temporary minor shareholder in the venture....

Such a centre/campus comprising significant representation from a world-class rail technology leader such as Hitatchi, along with a top-drawer UK firm that has cutting-edge complimentary technology expertise, such as Rolls-Royce, would be one way of providing the new centre/campus with automatic positive world-recognition...

Properly done, upgrading the United Kingdom's rail & people/goods transport-related infrastructure could lead to new UK industrial competencies: in areas of high-speed trains, track, undersea tunnels, clean-technology buses/lorries & related technologies...

Making the UK- including ALL ITS COMPONENTS, IE: Scotland, Wales & N Ireland- the best high-speed-rail networked country within the EU ought to be an unequivocally delineated policy of whatever party is in govt....

Establishing definitively the economic benefits or draw backs of linking the UK mainland with N Ireland via an (in need of building) undersea high-speed rail tunnel or 2 is long overdue!!

Improving the movement of goods & people both within the UK & to/from other EU countries could only benefit UK trade as well as strengthening the binding of Scotland (& Wales) into the Union...

As part of whatever party forms govt's long-term economic plans & dealing with the current economic difficulties, competent UK companies with rail-transport equipment related technological expertise ought to be enabled to innovate & diversify & if practical- to set up joint ventures with &/or acquire complementary overseas firms...

Rolls-Royce is a good example...

Rolls could be a leader in many fields other than jet engines & turbines...

Japan's Hitachi, Toshiba & other companies that produce leading-edge technology high-speed train systems->> that could be made compatible with those in EU countries; nuclear reactors & the like & that want a greater presence in western markets could be brought into alliances with- or might allow (parts of) themselves to be bought by Rolls- but not without considerable UK govt funding & negotiating efforts applied to these objectives.

A highly capable UK company such as a Rolls-Royce, GKN or VT paired with an industry-peer like 1 of Japan's high-speed train manufacturers, could use their joint & complementary expertise to co-develop & market designs that would be legitimate world beaters: competitors to France & Germany's established part-state-owned/tax-payer-subsidized companies...

A little state aligning of corporate relationships is needed...

Rolls-Royce partnered with a high-speed train manufacturer such as Hitachi could- using Rolls' internationally esteemed & invaluable 'brand' along with its extensive high technology & power generation expertise- become a legitimate world-class high-speed as well as other types of rail transport competitor...

... entering markets that can only expand substantially & reliably for the long-term... both in EU member nations & developing countries like Brazil, India, China,& in East Asia.

In a similar transport-industry-related theme, Rolls partnering with companies that specialize in bus & or mass-transit technologies to produce reliable, high-quality Rolls-Royce buses &/or other types of people-movers could only become an internationally competitive player...

Canada's Westport Innovations:

https://www.westport.com/

produces kit that converts diesel fueled engines into (natural) gas driven types...

Westport partnered with a prestigious, highly capable company like Rolls-Royce in the production of 'clean' gas-powered (diesel-design) engines could only make inroads to bus & similar types of vehicles... which are a 'coming market'... in both the EU & developing world countries...

While state intervention into industry is usually undesirable, the state setting or assisting in establishing a general corporate or specific industry direction can have positive outcomes...

If one takes a look at France or Germany & their successful, very well known part-state-owned nuclear-power, banking, energy, software, automobiles & high-speed-train manufacturing 'state-assisted' firms... it is undeniable that state-involvement- at least in the areas of indigenous-industry direction-setting and facilitating the mergers/amalgamation of comparatively small firms into big/mega-firms capable of competing globally- has had substantial positive outcomes...

With sufficient funding & a little creative govt negotiation assistance, UK companies such as Rolls-Royce, GKN, VT and others could be producing world-beating high-speed and other types of people and business-moving trains and supporting infrastructure; nuclear power plants & environmentally friendly public transport systems, such as gas-powered buses...

The massive borrowing now planned by Labour over the next decade ought to be put to more than just financing UK residents to 'shop till they drop', while govt relies on lazez fare economics to fix UK plc....

A long-term UK industrial & economic development strategy needs to be clearly laid out before any increases in borrowing occur...

Thinking big!! by politicians & bureaucrats is needed!!

High speed inter-urban and high-technology urban rail for the United Kingdom ought to be accompanied by the establishment of a liberally funded multi-national-membership 'world centre for rail-transport and public-transportation research and development facility'... with the primary objective: developing exportable rail transportation products...

While a low tax, light regulation industry environment should be an optimal objective for whatever party forms govt- there is no reason why- working with industry sector leaders- govt/state 'direction setting' could not compliment this...


Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC,
Canada

#27 & #38

I've been back for a while now but thought I'd better orgabise myself and have something to eat first.

You talking about the possibility of finishing your days by the seaside has reminded me of a brilliant Spanish film, 'Mer Ardento', dealing with the subject of self-imposed death and I remember of one of the final scenes by the Spanish seaside. Here's the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sea_Inside

39. jauntycyclist 'mrs t in the Great offices of state tv show on iplayer [foreign office] said you cannot appease bad behaviour as it just emboldens them to do more. she had no trouble banning mossad for 10 years. did they dare call her A/S?'

She just fronted Keith Joseph's Austrian School anarchism. It was with her that the UK's decline/privatisation accelerated. Why should the beneficiaries do anything other than revere her?

' "I had thought I was a Conservative," he remarked, "but I now see that I was not one at all." The problem, he concluded, was not that government was not doing well; it was that it was trying to do too much. And the source of the problem was the postwar consensus, with its promotion of the interventionist state. The enemy was "statism." What had to be changed was the political culture of the country, and the way to do it was through intellectual guerrilla warfare.'

Who was this?

Why would 'The Establishment' and BBC be in the frame? Why is so much of the country oblivious to what they've allowed to happen in the name of 'freedom'?

Its all very well for Lord Adonis and others to have a grand vision of a brand new high speed UK train set, probably mostly in the interest of the few not the many. However, the main challenge facing our rail network is the state of the track on many secondary lines throughout the country. Much of the track replaced in the 1950 / 60s is now well past its sell by date, requiring significant speed limits. The situation is not helped by the fact that the Yank owned EWS replaced all the purpose built low axle load diesels built during the 1960s with mega heavy US built Class 66. Talking to drivers it would appear that the slightly less powerful older UK designed and built Class 60 is a far better locomotive for freight trains.

I suspect that the civil engineers would have forbade their use on many secondary lines in the 60s, now said Class 66 are often the only option for freight trains. I suspect that freight operators dare not expand services to use secondary lines and free up the main lines for more frequent passenger trains for fear of the track disintegrating. Passenger services can often get away with it using relatively lightweight DMU stock, but the speed limits remain.

The true way forward for rail transport in the UK must be to get all the secondary lines back up to standard in order that fast frequent loco hauled passenger trains can safely use them. There is no doubt that to do this would need every bit of public subsidy available, the signaling needs improving also, perhaps taking advantage of radio technology.

Only then can we get rid of the current sardine can DMU fleet and provide a decent service ( especially at rush hour ) throughout the network.

"BIGGER THAN ANY SINGLE PARTY" - THERE YOU GO ANDY!

Burnham says the challenge of lots of old people is bigger than any single party. Knowing how party-politics works, this obviously translates as: "We can't think of an angle to take on this, that we can successfully defend against party-attack."
In truth, just about EVERY issue should be regarded as bigger than any party, apart from what sweets to put on the pick-n-mix. Or, to put it better: most issues are so important to the ordinary punter, they should not be debased through party-jousting. This includes: war, crime, education, housing and immigration, to name a few.

Has Our Andy just joined me in my call to SPOIL PARTY GAMES?

WHAT A WASTE! WHAT A SHAM(E). WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT.

High Speed Rail Link - affects huge swathes of the population/landscape
Gets a pre prepared film and a short interview with tranport minister

End days options/assisted suicide. Potentially affects ALL of us - gets one pre prepared film, most of which is on the website - NO interviews/discussion

Tiger Woods rehabilitation from sex addiction. - Affects Tiger Woods, his wife, girlfriends and children. Gets a clp of an over publicised press conference and a live link to a journo in Florida.

What a sad indictment of our society and its values.

Fabulous to see Jeremy back on our screens tonight - and outstanding interview with Lord Adonis, who not only failed to give an figure for the entire high speed rail project, and couldn't even give a date for it! This has been the most productive interview of the entire week.

On the subject of euthanasia - I'm still torn between the pros and cons even after the incredibly moving interviews tonight.

HORATIO IS HAVING A BAD DREAM.

"If I had died then" said the lady who had, previously, wished herself dead, "I would have missed the best years of my life".

Whilst I would not deny her her current happiness, I really don't feel this level of philosophical engagement is helpful to the overall debate - regardless of its televisual attractiveness.

In the case of my brother, he had some (never before sampled laddish 'menages a trois' - while half-paralysed, catheterised and wearing a pad. But he would gladly have missed such pleasure, HAD HE HAD THE CHOICE. The price was infinitely TOO HIGH.

There are far too many ignorant, blinkered fools with input into this debate. The outcome will be the usual mess (like recently re-jigged Power of Attorney).

REVIEW - EQUALITY - POPPYCOCK

Do all the women who complain about men not cleaning the bath, do all the decorating, car maintenance, clean out the guttering, de gunge the drains??

#49

"......Whilst I would not deny her her current happiness, I really don't feel this level of philosophical engagement is helpful to the overall debate - regardless of its televisual attractiveness."

Absolutely.


Highly emotive and manipulative and unquantifiabl/e. Unhelpful.

YOU HAVE TO LEAN OVER TO CLEAN A BATH . . . (#50)

Hi BYT. It will not have escaped your notice that it was 'Ms High Maintenance' who wished to have her bath cleaned. God knows what items of her cargo shift under such circumstances!

And might it be Germane to note that the semi-eponymous one is childless? Perhaps the equivalent of bloke fishing is mother suckling?

Yeah - poppycock.

STRAW WISDOM AT MIDNIGHT

"What political parties do is noble." Radio 4 News.

Noble: 'CHARACTERISED BY HIGH MORAL QUALITIES - HAVING DIGNITY OR EMINENCE'.

Oh Jack! It's the way you tell 'em. (:o)

'Mornin all :)

I thought the Adonis interview a waste of time, didn't say anything, keeping it all secret for labours master plan.

Euthanasia agree with others here, far too emotive, and sad for those involoved. It didn't say anything really, just two peoples point of view.

Tiger Woods, yes too long, and don't you think it was his obsessive childhood training, and no fun other than golf in his life. He's just never been through the teenage years naturally at the right time.

#47 Agree BYT all a bit pointless really.

#52 Yes Barrie I wonder if she now regrets all those non births. I think your word of equivalence is far better than equality.

#50 addendum

That tale about men being able to spend hours doing nothing (fishing was it), chilling, can be turned right on its head (and used to batter the moaning minnies with). Envy?????

As one of the femlae persuasion I KNOW that I and many of my 'sisters' would do well to take note and do likewise much more often. Not in a fit of pique, but in a fit of accepting 'Good Enough'.

I could of course be really vicuous and all unnecessary and comment on the 'busy' women I know who natter at the school gates for 40 minutes every day; or spend 3 hours of their employers time on social networks and doing personal business; or 2 hours a week having hair and nails done, or take three times as long to convey the same information on a phone call.......

As for multi tasking - yep, do lots of things............... half cocked!

Now I am going to run away and hide.

Most of us have first class honours degrees in b***dy martyrdom!


#41 Mim

I woud NOT personally call the paradise I hope to spend many more wonderful days of life as well as my ultimate demise at, the seaside.

Ever seen Local Hero????

#43 statist
" The enemy was "statism." What had to be changed was the political culture of the country, and the way to do it was through intellectual guerrilla warfare."

Many would differentiate between the "statism" of the left where there was concern for the common good that led to the welfare state and the "statism" of what would generally be called the far right who may for instance bleat on about what a nice feller Hitler was.

There used to be many far right posters on this page like the old gnarled and bitter Jaded_Jean who used to rant on about the woes of de-Nazification in post war Britain. But when you start to ask detailed questions to expose the highly superficial arguments that they propose they clear off.

Thank God they are gone now and we are left with people who can see what a waste of space and time the BNP are with their ridiculous racial arguments.

When push came to shove did they go to court with a mass of scientific data over multi-racial membership or did they comply?

They complied but will still rant on with their empty vacuous slogans.

Labour may be lost souls but the BNP are positively evil.

#44 statist

"Why is so much of the country oblivious to what they've allowed to happen in the name of 'freedom'?"

Why are so many on the far right oblivious to what they allowed to happen when they drank from Hitler's poisoned cup and left seventy million or so dead in Europe and millions of Jews murdered?

Why do people think that democracy that can correct itself - even after Blair - is inferior to National Socialism? All it was was allowing a few charismatic psycho's that sought to be new replacement aristocrats.

#26 statist

"Now that's what a real government would do, jauntycyclist"

Whilst I in no way support expanding settlements as per the Palin "doctrine" and I certainly don't think the execution of the Hamas leader will change anything anytime soon I think the comments of those that in reality favour Hitler are hardly any more credible or reasoned. You do come across them in the blogosphere.

Of course you probably don't agree with the Nazis and the BNP do you?

Come to think of it the BNP are not a Nazi party in any case they are "modern and progressive".

how did newsnight miss this one from the jewish chronicle:


"New legislation to stop magistrates granting arrest warrants for visiting politicians and military figures accused of war crimes will be announced next week, the JC can reveal.

The outcry from Israel over a warrant issued for opposition leader Tzipi Livni last month led the government to make a commitment to ensure prominent Israelis will in future be able to travel to the UK without fear of arrest.

Lawyers representing Palestinians in Gaza successfully applied for a warrant last month over Ms Livni’s involvement in authorising Operation Cast Lead.

The new legislation will pass the power to issue arrest warrants for prominent figures such as Ms Livni to the Attorney General. "

and :

Stuart Polak, Director of Conservative Friends of Israel, confirmed that the Tories would back the government on the issue: "As the Shadow Justice Secretary has clearly stated, the Conservative Party is committed to find a solution to the problem and will support the government on any workable and credible solution they develop."

#50

Brightyangthing

It would have been good if there had been an interview between Jeremy and a couple of guests directly affected by the issue of assisted suicide and associated with it ethical problems as he, while able to ask pertinent questions, once it comes to it can also be very sensitive with vulnerable people.

Re: feminism. I was so struck by sleepiness /in fact I just managed to stay awake through Newsnight itself/ that I couldn't possibly watch Germaine Greer talking about feminism but from what you say I'm pleased I didn't as she would have probably made me feel angry. As much as I am for the respect of female independence whenever a woman chooses to be so, personally I don't believe in all this crap about bath cleaning, etc, and not only because men perform other tasks women do not normally engage in.

Ice dance starts in a moment so I shall leave it at that. I think you probably understand what I'm trying to say here.

Have a good weekend, BYT

mim

P.S, I love decorating and DIY but when it comes to cars....

"The Review Show"

[I can't seem to find a blog for the prog., so here will have to do.]

I don't know how to politely express how shocking it is that not one of the middle-class commentators indicated any understanding of the true causes of the problems up for discussion this week. It seems abundantly clear, to me anyway, that the majority - if not the entirety - of the women who behave in a manner the chattering class disapproves of are incredibly poorly educated and poorly raised. What on Earth has happened when people cannot grasp that those acting in a way we view as stupid are stupid.

When every woman is aware of a supposed 'sexualised' society - whether they understand it or not - but only a minority acts in a 'sexualised' way, there cannot be a causal link between magazines, websites, clothing, etc., and behaviour. Admittedly, it becomes increasingly difficult to counter certain views when they are as prevalent as at present, but let's remember the solution lies only in the classroom (not receiving feminist brainwashing, but a nurturing of every child's innate intelligence) and in the home - being explicitly taught self-esteem, self-confidence and a knowledge of right and wrong. Many parents - especially the middle class variety - seem to believe their self-confidence, etc. - 'strength', you could say - is transmitted to their children as if by osmosis. Like it or not, everything has to be taught and you cannot expect the wider community to act as surrogate parents, any more, correcting your child's aberrant behaviour. Most wouldn't be grateful for that, anyway. Banning things doesn't solve anything.

Incidentally, I presume none of the men in the lives of the female guests treat them in a degrading manner, but I also presume none of the men were explicitly taught 'about' the opposite sex; so where does their 'respect' come from? Their education, perhaps? Their upbringing?

As far as the male addiction to porn is concerned: that, too, is a product of a poor education and upbringing. Most men are not addicted to porn, believe it or not.

I get the impression that the Left, in general, and feminists, in particular, don't understand what it is to be human: why we do what we do. This, of course, has challenged the greatest minds for centuries, but the answer might just lie somewhere where our intelligence and upbringing coalesces. If not, at least a good education and upbringing can't do any harm, can they?

It really would have been nice if tonight's debate had centred on 'causes' and not 'symptoms'. Left-wing debates rarely do, though.

#55

Well, yes, BYT, though not often and close enough, not yet!?

mim

P.S.

Looking forward to meeting the Spring round the corner
The Sunshine, the brightness, the colours gallore

#61 StrugglingToStayCalm

Good review of REVIEW.

".....the solution lies only in the classroom "
Good God, I sincerely hope NOT in any classroom of my recent experience

" ....especially the middle class variety - seem to believe their self-confidence, etc. - 'strength', you could say - is transmitted to their children as if by osmosis. "

Osmosis
Actually, I believe these skills CAN and indeed SHOULD be absorbed in just such a way. But of course for that to work, they have to be immersed in the right kind of environment for that to happen. Not strongly in evidence these days.

Middle Class
It was (as you would expect of an arts show, VERY heavily middle class biased and strangely endorsing class stereotypes. I was especially interested (nee horrified) that the lady from the lady was at pains to brush current ‘sexualisation’ a exploitation firmly at the door of the poorly educated lower classes.

HHEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The Raunch Culture was born and thrives in Middle Class homes. Where mothers dress for the office as if they are dressing for the nightclub; where they place drinking with the lads above eating with their children; where their daughters wear padded bra’s, belts instead of skirts, t shirts with ‘Bitch’ in diamante in an endorsement of the ‘mini me’ (or worse) scenario, where falling home drunk and flushed from flirting is a badge of honour; where kicking out the father and bringing home a string of ‘dates’ who in the morning is the norm. This is what is being absorbed by Osmosis in our Middle Class Homes now.

Yeah, feminism ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

59. wendymann 'how did newsnight miss this one from the jewish chronicle'

It's because, the principles of rationality, equality before the law, human duties etc do not apply to the domain of Israel and her 'friends', so it would be very difficult, i.e. 'anti-semitic', for BBC Newsnight to run with this.

Writ large, this is precisely why there's so much fundamentally wrong (and it's getting worse) across the liberal-democracies.

59 it does seem a strange election pledge given israel doesn't have a vote in the uk? [or do they?]

...the Conservative leader, that legislation to guarantee immunity for visiting Israeli officials would be one of his government's top priorities following a general election expected in May....

...David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, condemned the arrest warrant....


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7272400/Tzipi-Livni-scoffs-at-Tory-pledge-to-end-threat-of-arrest-for-Israel-officials.html

if some [only israelis] are above the law then the conservatives are talking about bringing in apartheid into uk law. Which is consistent with Cameron being the patron of the JNF. It is nation building on the west bank occupation model where roads etc are only for use by israelis.

actually the israeli seem so at ease with the british state they are taunting it

..Here I come, arrest me,’ Livni challenges UK...

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7026939.ece

they clearly don't think the uk will take any action over the passports. what milliband called an 'outrage'.

the grovelling seems the default position of the uk political class?

Mossad forged my passport to carry out 1979 killing, says Briton

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/19/mossad-israel-olympics

it must be pretty humiliating to be a journalist at the bbc if orders have come down to ignore the passort 'outrage' story?

Didn't watch The Review Show but reading here I get the drift and thought about
this again :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247540/BBC-producer-secretly-filmed-bed-TV-radio-presenters-hiding-camera-smoke-alarm.html

Maybe people have different libido drive from hormones aided or turbo charged by all the stuff we now have access to. People may also have a spectrum of different fetishes that can seem highly offensive deviant and incomprehensible.

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3649197.ece

And wasn't spanking related to public school behaviour and going back as to the 18th Century in the UK?

Its note worthy that the professional US porn industry is, well going out of business due to the online free activity by the public with web cams and digital cameras. So the general public are doing it themselves.

You also hear about peoples accidents to their head, illness or after operations and medications then having completely different libido drives.

l#63

Strong stuff, BYT!!!!

I used to know a woman full of pretences just as you describe, ‘fashion wise’ at least and quite capable of sticking her mocking stylettoes at short notice.
However, when she was not pretending to be somebody else and her natural nature and sense of humour shone through she was great!
****

I have once been a working visitor in your part of the world, BYT. It's lovely up where you live!!!!

****

Having done a couple of lines on the forthcoming Spring, I'm now thinking of dittying on controlled, though not cold bloodedly, passion which, as a consequence I don't think deserves to be considered as obsession.

****

Re: daily living shared by men and women

One should never really indulge in too many generalisations: thee are are men who are absolutely useless with cars and nechanics while being good, let's say, at cooking and there are some who might be obsessed with cleanliness nagging day and night at their spouses, etc

Is the Sun shining today where you are, Brightyangthing?

mim

...Security sources have confirmed that the threatened end to the intelligence sharing between the UK and Israel was yet to materialise.

The officials stressed that normal service would continue, unless it was conclusively proven that Mossad had used forged British passports in the murder...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/west-turns-diplomatic-screw-ndash-but-israel-refuses-to-crack-1904034.html

conclusively proven? not just proven but conclusively proven?

is that the 'test' for action? then nothing will happen. the uk govt have decided to do nothing.

so there will be no banning of mossad as Mrs T did
No expelling the Ambassador as Canada did
and no restrictions on visits as New Zealand did.

the uk govt may not think they have any leverage over israel but look at how concerned livni is here.

.."Even if there are disagreements, this is not the way to treat Israel's friends and well-wishers, especially at a time when so many are threatening it," Livni said.

"We can't afford to lose those who see themselves as our friends," she said.
...

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1151024.html

so if israel really thought the uk would do something and stand up for the rights of the british people [as it should do] then they might begin to see they have more to lose than we do?

the modded post was in reference to this


Israeli politicians may provoke arrest to force law change in Britain

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7026939.ece

is there no end to the 'provking'?

#61 struggling
“I presume none of the men in the lives of the female guests treat them in a degrading manner, but I also presume none of the men were explicitly taught 'about' the opposite sex; so where does their 'respect' come from? Their education, perhaps? Their upbringing?”

I’m not able to see the debate overseas, but offer my answers, for what they are worth.
My respect came from the example set by parents, both of whom were from working class backgrounds, but moved up in the 1940/50s ‘rise and sprawl of the middle classes’. Having no sisters might have distanced (even terrified) me from females, as did 3 years at sex segregated Tech College, my concentration as a youth being (mostly) on study, masculine sports and clubs (Cubs, Scouts, Boys brigade, ATC) then all male.

“As far as the male addiction to porn is concerned: that, too, is a product of a poor education and upbringing. Most men are not addicted to porn, believe it or not.”

I can’t speak for most, and addiction is too strong a term, but interest in the opposite sex became a dominant factor, probably making up for ‘wasted’ youth, plus living and working in exotic (erotic?) locations. Presently in Philippines, which has not tolerated sex-tourism since the 1990s when girlie-bars were closed down, and has always been a good example of family respect. Unlike the UK (Catholic) school attended by my teenage daughter, where it seems dress control cannot be enforced by the female principal, all schoolchildren in Philippines are immaculately turned out despite widespread poverty, and all school uniform skirts are ankle length, compared to bum-freezers of UK schools.

I have sponsored several Filipino nieces to UK and all behave soberly and with respect for elders and for themselves. Fortunately, my daughter wishes to live here and we are happy to take her out of the UK environment where ‘Waterloo Road’ ‘Tracy Beaker’ and many in-your-face teenage ‘comedy’ shows from USA are a constant bad influence on adolescents, seeming to indicate that school is primarily a dating institute where competition is focussed on achieving 'targets' other than educational standards.
Parental influence and example are today overwhelmed by mass media.

BEING A LOVER OF 'TELLING TITLES' "OPERATION CAST LEAD" SPOKE TO ME (#59)

I am in no position to give a definitive comment (though I have some background knowledge) but what emerged from my delving into 'Cast Lead' on the Web, certainly warranted wendymann's alert.

As for 'upper-class culpability' regarding arrest warrants, it is very 'Animal Farm' isn't it. Is there anything in the Bible (old testament even) that condemns 'judicious judgement' based on social position? Isn't this the sort of thing Scribes and Pharisees used to get up to?

66. jauntycyclist 'if some [only israelis] are above the law then the conservatives are talking about bringing in apartheid into uk law. Which is consistent with Cameron being the patron of the JNF. It is nation building on the west bank occupation model where roads etc are only for use by israelis.'

The reason this causes so much resentment all over the world is because it's actually representative of a general, age-old strategy to faciliate social and economic affirmative action at the expense of others through very unfair means. Anyone who points out just how unfair this is, will, of course, be stung with the charge that they're being 'anti-semitic'. It's as clever as it's devious, and this is why it's self-perpetuating as either way of dealing with it (i.e criticising or ignoring it) just serves to encourage it! That's the problem in a nutshell. It would cause resentment whichever group did it, but this one has effectively established a monopoly. It's a problems of psychology/behaviour, and it demands a fair and rational solution. is there one?

trains

there is no such thing as nation building science. which the uk guardian class demonstrates daily.

indeed they demonstrate that the only nation they agree they want to build and defend isn't this one.

Life at any cost?

is an extreme position. prosecuting people like that is stupid. maybe mossad should offer a domestic snuff service. the government turns a blind eye to what they do.

76

through my long 'debates' with the israeli internet warfare team there is a way to show the flaw in the logic.

if to be pro british and pro human rights for all is a/s then to be pro semitic you have to logically be anti british and anti human rights for all. which the uk political class currently demonstrates in their actions.

so there is no honour in departing from being pro human rights for all just because of name calling and bearing of false witness by others [see hasbara handbook point 1 on how to respond with false accusations- about half way down the book].

WISDOM - PHILOSOPHY - SELF AWARENESS - CONTENTMENT - GODLESSNESS (#76)

It's the way you ask 'em - Statist.

"It's a problems of psychology/behaviour, and it demands a fair and rational solution. Is there one?"

It seems pretty evident that 'Homo Sapiens - heal thyself' is beyond reach. We can travel hopefully, while the 'ground beneath our feet' moves, counter-wise, to more-then-negate anything we achieve, or we can hope a bunch of benign Martians turn up to change the dynamic. We currently 'factory farm' ourselves (badly) so should a sign suddenly go up, on Earth, saying 'UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT' we could well have some cause for rejoicing. One thing is sure: no god is going to do it.

I am well aware that to 'wise up the young' not only has inherent limitation - uplift would be patchy and variable - but also, as soon as 'they' saw any success, it would be squashed.

It's an inequitable world Statist.

Well done to Theresa Villiers for refusing to accept Newsnight's invitation to take part in another mindless slanging match.

This looks interesting...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/7265979/Evan-Davis-on-what-would-happen-if-all-immigrant-workers-left.html

I notice the spud lifters are working 12 hour days, do they do that 5 or 6 days a week 60 to 72hrs a week? I thought some EU directive decreed workers should only work 40 hour weeks.

Why are local allowed to get dole when there is work available.

Why as it says in the article does it benefit the middle classes, cheap labour and food?

How many people should live in England before we are living cheek by jowl?

What happens to these immigrants once they have settled in, and decide they will now use their degrees etc. to do a decent job?

Then the middle classes will find they are out of work as well, as the immigrant is prepared to work 12 hour days.

Then we will have to import yet more immigrants to do the jobs that the now transferred to better employment immigrants were doing.

When do you say there are enough people here already?

When do we actually sink under the weight of so many people, and start fighting each other?

And when does our infrastructure actually collapse because there are just too many people demanding services?

TAKE HER DOWN BLOGDOG! (#81)

Ecolizzy has used the term 'living cheek by jowl' - it looks like a poorly disguised, differencist, swipe at Mandelson and Brown. Disgraceful!

AND HOW LONG BEFORE INDIGENES NEED TO LEARN SEVERAL LANGUAGES TO GET A JOB? (#81)

Or will Manglish become our Lingua Franca? Did Red Ken clamp down on the wrong Pidgins. Innit?

a future fair for all - once the poor have finished paying for the rich bankers who were not regulated properly?

#76 statist

"Anyone who points out just how unfair this is, will, of course, be stung with the charge that they're being 'anti-semitic'. "

Oh yawn we have been down this road so many many times before.

Firstly the "statistical argument" that there is a Jewish hegemony at the expense of indigenous peoples is nonsense on every level and has never been proven in any court or accepted by any serious academic journal.

Secondly when people say they are not anti-semitic but then suggest that they are "agnostic" or deniers on the Holocaust .... and Hitler was quite a good fellow ... then surprise surprise people assume that the BNP types are here again.

The BNP's racial theories also amount to nothing as when they had the chance to resist obeying the law of the land and to cite this mass of scientific "evidence" with regard to multi-racial membership they referred to the EHRC as a "sniveling quango" whilst also trying to suggest that "they had been meaning to do it for years".

Perhaps the BNP slogan for their election campaign will be "racial policies based on science that does not exist and a philosophy of National Socialism that will be publicly denied at all cost".

Meanwhile those posters on this page who have expressed their support for the rabid far right are at least becoming blander and blander.

CHICKEN AND EGG (FRUIT OR SEED) FREE RANGE OR BATTERY
#81

The choice, the price and therefore the responsibility of the end result may well be down to us 'indegene's'

Thanks for that link Ecolizzy. Bookmarked to watch.

An example close to home I know something of.

Local dairy farm switched to Soft fruit in 1999. For several years operated ‘PYO as well as using local casual labour for picking for retail outlets. But that labour was very very unreliable – poor turn up rate, slacking, which resulted in substantial wastage of perfect for picking fruit.

So, by 2004 (interesting coincidence??)when they opened a small roadside seasonal shop they began to ‘import’ foreign student labour for the main picking season from May to October.

I have no idea what rate or what hours they work under but this is a properly managed business, completing all the required paperwork, NI/Tax etc as appropriate. They have time off and seem happy enough though I am sure they work very hard.

Up to 400 mostly eastern European, mostly students spend the summer here in caravans on site (part of their package) then go home again.

This business supports many local workers in cafe/shop also. All paid slightly above minimum wage. Many students, 16+ or part time mums.

This business provides an outlet for other local farm produce, arts and crafts. Those are mostly local people.

Growing (and harvesting) on the scale my local example now manages, means local berries sold to local people at approximately half the price that they used to when smaller scales.

Perhaps not every situation is as clear cut, but I’d wager the chicken was a need (for industry to grow to feed growing desires for goods and services) and the egg was the lack of willingness and in this case volume found in the indigenous populace to enable such need.

Not advocating this – but it is how it appears to be.

Brightyangthing

I've just come up with a ditty on controlled passion but I'm still hoping to write something a bit more sophisticated than this at some stage in the future. But for the time being, here it is:

Controlled Passion

It must about 21 years since I’ve had a big thing
About a man who still has a grip
On my mind, heart, soul and my bones.
My passion’s controlled though not without tears
As well as great heights up in the spheres.
I’m still searching for another way of expressing my passion
That now has become a bit of a fashion
For others to follow, enjoy or get angry about
Though nowt can be done - It’s him or it’s none.
It’s gone for too long for it not to be real
Today for my breakfast I did have some cereal.

mim

WHICH CAME FIRST - THE WELFARE OF THE INDOLENCE? (#87)

My father was a child when doctors had to be paid and workhouses (or equivalent) still endured. In consequence he was never without an underlying concern to have 'a bit put by'. (Ironically, today. he could have lost that down the Money Hole.)

It is, at least, debatable that welfare saves some from utter degradation; I am willing to assert that it undermines the resolve to be viable individuals, OF MANY MORE.

Welfare is NOT WHAT NATURE WOULD DO! Should we be replacing it with compassionate unfairness? Or would that require such a thing as 'society'?

#89

BYT

Looked from this perspective, the whole business of casual immigrant labout on farms across the land does seem to have some economic sense not only for the immigrants but also for the local population.

In fact, a similar phenonemon is happening in Poland whereby lots of people from east of Poland come to do the jobs that not many Poles by now want to engage in. I haven't as yet heard any complaints about it which doesn't mean they do not exist. However, my brother and I think it's quite a good thing - giving an opportunity to those who have been born under less favourable circumstances but are willing to work hard to improve their lot.

The above is not to say that the financial immigration is not a problem and that it shouldn't be better controlled, etc. But as for the EU countries, once countries like Poland grow richer and attractive, who is to say that many more Brits, for example, will not prefer to live and work there for a change.

I'm not sure how many other EU individuals already do exactly that but I think probably quite a few.

mim

the tories do have previous - david davis says Conservative Friends of Israel should continue to have a significant role in the Tory foreign policy but also in domestic policies:

from conservative home leadership archives :

"10. Conservative Friends of Israel is one of the biggest affiliated groups to the Conservative Party with over 80% of MPs as members and over 2000 registered supporters (most of whom are Party members). How do you see CFI’s role in promoting Conservatism and helping the Conservative Party to win the next election?

CFI should continue to have a significant role in policy development both in foreign policy but also in
domestic policies. As I said we share very similar values and outlook on life and we can learn off each
other how best to put those ideals into practice. "

POLITICIANS AFFLILIATE ONLY TO GAIN OR TO PREVENT 'LOSS' (#91)

I doubt VERY MUCH that any Tory MP will tell us why they are Friends of Israel. Perhaps we should ask 'why not' of those who aren't? This is an odd state of affairs (note how close that is to 'affairs of state'). This is reminiscent of the 'Masons/Police' rumblings of a few years back. Are Masons still found in some abundance in our incorruptible gendarmerie?

Is there ANY OTHER affiliation that is ENTICING to the typical MP? Do they reveal such attachments on their election literature? Does Dave ACTIVELY ENCOURAGE F of I involvement?

In the light of wendymann's information, the incongruous Eurovision Song Contest inclusion falls neatly into place. I have not been very bright.

LOCK-IN IS NOW RULED OUT?

Brown-Labour are now going to 'secure the recovery', so what happened to 'locking in'? Did they spot that this is the term for after-hours drinking? Or were its two-weeks of edginess up? Or is it that Darling is the 'lock-in' man, so Brown goes for securing?

Jeremy....?on a Friday?...can someone check if the Ravens are still in the Tower?

Lord Adonis nearly answered the question but at least he turned up unlike the Tory party who ran away....it is so serious as we are the laughing stock of Europe, trainwise, we do not compete, we see the French who invest and we are all arguing as to who will pick up the tab, it should be a national debate and the nation picks up the tab, we can fund unpopular wars, bail out w.......s and yet we have a third world transport system. Soon we will be hanging on the sides like they do in India and I bet they will charge for that one too....

"TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT NEW LABOUR" (J G Brown) OH - DO WE HAVE TO?

OK Mr Brown - it was your idea.

New Labour was founded by Tony Blair, in association with James G Brown.
Blair has emerged as a failed Messiah who clearly wanted to be rich and famous, AT ANY PRICE. To this end he presided over financial chicanery and was involved in multiple military actions, the last two, ill-conceived and disastrous. You, Mr Brown, also desperate to be famous, wanted to be the man who ended boom and bust, even as the boom turned to bust behind your back (which wasn't fair). You wanted to be the man who saved Africa, and who stood with troops, like Tony (only somehow it never looked the same).

Under New Labour, boarder control collapsed, and the language of these islands - especially in service industries - more especially in care of the sick, old, and confused - became predominantly 'Manglish'. How uncaring is that (except caring about cheap labour)?

Under New Labour, Political Correctness (aka the Bullies' Charter) grew like H G Wells' Red Weed, smothering everything.
Cigarette advertising left our screens, to be replaced by the poison of human-to-human debasement, in every conceivable form - 'New Entertainment'. News reporting became edgy fun.

New Labour finished the work started by Margaret Thatcher, leaving Britain rudderless, grounded on the EU central sandbank, subsumed by historic enemies without a bleat of resistance.

As you directed: I took another look at New Labour, Mr Brown. I have seen the past – and it didn't work.

if the iranian revolutionary guard are terrorists why not mossad?

#29 nedafo by a strange coincidence I wrote this in an email to someone yesterday after the suicide discussion on Newsnight...

His sister asked several times in the hospice why they didn't feed her or encourage her to eat and drink, the nurses told her "that's not our purpose here". I don't think that's made very clear to people, yes you are going to die, and we'll starve you to death to do it. At the end the relatives stayed for many hours at the bedside, obviously with her having great difficulty breathing. And then a funny thing happened they left about 2.30am, within less than an hour they were rung and told she had died. I've always suspected they gave her an overdose of something, but all the time the family were there they couldn't, so in a way I'm hopeful that's what did happen.

Now another terrible incidence, that always makes you want the old heart attack to finish you off! My relative went into hospital just before christmas, aged 92, and all his body failing, it had just given up, he couldn't eat much, although still was, and his kidneys had virtually finished. His son said they put a notice over his bed, nil by mouth. He was given no food, and NO drink, although for the first five days he had a drip up. Well it took him 9 days to die, fully conscious for most of the time, not ga ga, asking his son about home etc, and all the time dying, literally, for a cup of tea, which he kept asking for, but no he wasn't allowed one. Why not give him an overdose of morphine or some such, why punish this quiet, hard working all his life old man. It is plainly cruel to withhold all sustanance, but in the eyes of the law that's fine, you must suffer whilst on this earth.

Must be common practice, so why no euthanasia?!

"A FUTURE FAIR FOR ALL" ISN'T THAT LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE?

Brown's 'Farce Whisperers' are at it again - and he is still listening! There are as many definitions of 'fair' as there are people to define it. Does anyone actually believe that Mandelson's 'fair' is the same as Brian Haw's? If politics is so determined to indulge in this base, petty, deception, through tortuous word-selection, AT LEAST LET THEM DO IT WELL!

We had to endure the 'Deceptive Dave' poster, and now we get 'Modified Manse' semantic slipperiness. This is party politics at its most nakedly dishonourable - I choose that word deliberately. There is no honour in Westminster politics, AND THAT IS DEEPLY UNFAIR.

#94

How old are you, Stevie?