Friday 4 September 2009

Hoorah! Ian Rankin's back on review; only Bonnie Greer to go now, given Tom Paulin appeared earlier in the year; might watch it for a change.

And who can not find Nigel Farage hysterically funny? He's better than Mr. Bean and costs marginally less for his efforts.

I'm all for equality, particularly if it resulted in us having as glamorous a Finance Minister as the French one; and her English is impeccable! So could you please talk with her rather than Mr. Darling?

Looking forward eagerly to what Paul Mason has to say about the Great Schemozzle; it looks like already people are beginning to realize that, as in many other aspects, the UK has been found wanting in its attempt to punch above its weight.

What is to be done, Paul?

Nigel from UKIP is always good copy.He embarrasses most of the political elite and that is why I like him, a maverick against the political wimps who toe the party line and make themselves even more discredited.....

THERE IS SOMETHING VERY WESTMINSTER ABOUT THE BERCOW CHOICE

Was it party games? With all that I have read (some might even be half-true) what made him first choice?

Would some knowledgeable poster spell out, in simple terms, WHY BERCOW?

KASHIBEYAZ. I can't let your Lagarde-worship pass without comment. As I have posted before: over-white teeth make me wonder about other judgement, especially when Berlusconi is in the frame . . .

It must now be clear to any political observers that Gordon Brown is the puppet of the Corporate Nazi stock market parasites. Likewise Alistair Darling ( nee Panda ) who would appear to be committed to the Corporate Nazi ideology of expanding and sustaining a virtual welfare state for the stock market parasites. Tough on alleged Incapacity Benefit cheats but no action to curb the embezzlement of billions by the " socially useless " section of financial markets as recently identified by Lord Turner. Darling is attempting to portray that a cap on bonuses will be avoided through higher basic salaries. The obvious solution is to heavily tax all derivatives trades, but with Obama scared of assassination the Corporate Nazi's have him as their puppet also, so no chance of a global deal.

Of course it will be no better under the Tories despite the Osborne rhetoric on tougher city regulation. Perhaps its convenient to dump the FSA now that its head is no longer " ideologically pure ", of course Boris has to object to a cap on bonuses as they are mostly in the interest of his main political sponsors. Farage's response is typical of a party funded by the likes of hedge funds, meanwhile Vince cable is perhaps conveniently practicing the art of not being seen.

#34 from previous page
gangofone
I'm not aware of Mr Lavrov coming to Poland on Tuesday. I think you may be thinking of Putin who did, indeed, made quite an effort to behave like a statesman.
Re: the Madagascar science fiction:
What you need to understand is that jj may be playing around with BNP but he is also known to play around with all the other parties as part of his 'essential mission' and I suspect he may be contributing to all this nonsense that's going on in Russia.
I was so pleased when the Russians finally abandoned communism and had a go at democracy, first under Gorbachov and finishing really with Boris Jelcyn who finally let go of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
But now, it is really difficult to understand what they are trying to achieve with their attempts at rewriting history. It is fair enough of them to claim their significant contribution to defeating Hitler. They did lose millions of brave men, etc, but it is obvious that it was Stalin who cooperated with Hitler in the first place and so a lot of blame should apportioned to him personally.
I should imagine that if they finally came to terms with all the truths re: World War II, the way Germany is doing, and stopped playing silly games, they would gain from willingness of the Western democracies to cooperate with them more closely which could, perhaps, help with rebuilding their country which is in a rather sorry state of affairs financially and from the infrastructure point of view.
mimpromptu

Mim #5

Have you never watched World At War, shown recently on UKTV History plus a half hearted attempt by BBC2 on Saturday afternoon and various other slots not mentioned in the previous programme. Stalin had no option but to sign the pact with Hitler, the Russian army was simply not up to the fight in 1939. They got stuffed initially but the winter saved them likewise Napoleon, but perhaps the key was the T34 Tank, and the possibility that most of the potential Trotskyites had got killed in the Nazi invasion ?

BELIEFS ARE OFTEN FALSE, BUT BELIEVED

mimpromptu (#5) The Madagascar plan was in fact The Final Solution. Have a look into this and you'll see it's true.

Some very odd things are done to keep people from questioning what they have been told to believe.

What advantages might there have been to some in making lots of naive, trust8ing people believe things which were not in fact true? Think Iraq and WMDs....

Mim #5 again

" of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. " all of which actively collabourated with the Nazi's rounding up the Jews for execution by firing squad. ( can't spell the German but will have a go Eindstat commando )The Ukraine is now a thorn in Russia's side attempting to become a sham Corporate Nazi democracy, serves them right for being good ten bob fat cats and not paying their gas bill.

Erratum (#7) Here's an alternative if the second link does not work.

Addendum (#7) Any thoughts on this chap anyone? He does have some interesting past associations... ;-)

why is K W so dogged if not aggresive with Alistair Darling but simpering and feeding easy lines to the French finance minister... so boring and typical.

I've just seen Kirsty Wark's interview with Mme. Christine Lagarde, the French Finance Minister.

I was struck by how impressively Mme. Lagarde came across on TV. Intelligent, commonsense, answered the questions clearly and to the point without diverting to stupid juvenile swipes at opposition politicians or their policies, no doublespeak.

Angela Merkel comes across the same way on the very rare occasions we see parts of her TV interviews.

There is not a single British politician on either front bench who comes across half as well. Now we can see why France and Germany seem to be so much better governed than the UK.

As for comparisons with British women politicians, words fail me. Ours are a decidedly second-rate lot in comparison.

On this showing, the sooner we go fully in to Europe and become governed by people who seem to know what they are doing, the better.

A WARK ON THE WEIRD SIDE (#11 and 12)

You forgot to mention the condensing of three syllable words into just one, searope. This is a very strange person - though not to the BBC, who delight in choosing female presenters who have lisps, cannot master the 'r' pronunciation, or produce 'little' as 'litt'w'. (It's and 'edgy' thing.)

As for British politicians, pfvlloyd, I have repeated myself too many times with regard to their faulty genesis, via the Westminster party games ethos. If you investigate their codes of conduct, you will find they may serve party before constituent(s) without a blush. But then - they wrote the codes, just as they wrote the allowances rules! My guess is that it is residual national cultures that give EU ladies some retained dignity. It is hardly likely to be EU corruption 'of the people by the people for the people' is it? Britain has no culture left. We lead the 'civilised world' in decline.

SPOIL PARTY GAMES - it's a start.

How much longer can Newsnight Review advertise itself as a review of 'the week's cultural highlights'? It hasn't been that for some considerable time now.

pfvlloyd,

If you speak to people from Europe they do tend to think that their Government is on their side, unlike here where they are just out to subjugate you, fine you for anything, rip you off and line their own pockets. This country has become a really horrible place to live, intolerant, spiteful bureaucrats everywhere and just a generally nasty atmosphere.

You get the feeling of it the minute you arrive at one of our airports, gum chewing armed police dressed up in paramilitary uniforms, cameras everywhere, bossy officials, all the things we used to despise when visiting other countries (remember Monty Python's holiday sketch, "Queuing for the bloody armed customs officers"?). That's what it's like here now. I see it getting even worse after the next election no matter who wins. Imagine all those corrupt politicians with a grudge about being found out for their expenses with 5 years of unfettered law making in front of them. It doesn't bear thinking about.

barriesingleton (13) -

Yes, but it wasn't just the dignity - it was the shock of seeing a politician on TV who was so obviously and clearly intelligent, knew what she was talking about and had the ability to communicate it.

It's such a long, long time since I've seen one of ours who I would even let run a chip shop.

from mimpromptu
If anyone in authority is following jj and his activties, which are so obviously suspicious, they will realise that he is up to no good. It's enough to see from his postings above that he's not denying his active participation in Russian politics and his 'essential' manipulation of British politicians either. Not to mention all the other games that he is so keen on 'playing'.
I think it's going to be the last time I'll talk about him on these pages. It's up to the others now to deal with him.

searope at 11 asked:
"why is K W so dogged if not aggresive with Alistair Darling but simpering and feeding easy lines to the French finance minister"

When we take to task someone who is incompetent, useless, ect..we rip into them. And when we are dealing with someone who has good form, proven record, ect..we treat them with the respect they deserve and hopefully pick their brains a little.

Well that's what Kirsty Wark was doing.

Test. I have no idea what I wrote that needs censoring. Is it my username that prompts it?

DOING ONE'S BIT FOR ONE'S (OWN) PEOPLE

impromptu (#5,#17) In one of your posts on Wednesday, you referred to Viktor Suvorov (aka Mischa Shauli). Have you asked why he may have published under a different name?

With National Socialist Germany out of the way and being 'democratized' in 1945, the Trotskyites/Neocons in the USA went gunning for Stalinist USSR (and other evil-doers) as salient forms of statism in the world, this being the best way of encouraging free-market liberal-democracy domestically in the USA, Europe an Far East dominions like Japan. It's how foreign and domestic policies dove-tail. Watch the news for more does of this propaganda.

Just remember:

a) Neoconservatism=Trotskyism=Workers Democracy=People's Choice=Free Market Liberal-Democracy=New Labour/Conservatives/Lib-Dems=Anarchism = 'Good'

b) Old Labour=Stalinism=Democratic-Centralism=Statism/Public Ownership of Means of Production/Communication/Regulation of Financial Services as GOSBANK/GOSPLAN etc = 'bad'.

You appear to be doing your bit for deregulation/anarchism/business your people, just like thegangofone. The question is, do you both know this, or are you both perhaps being used as unwittingly as 'useful idiots'? Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially if, when advised to compare what one already thinks, with reference to the outside world as a reality check, one just compares what one reads or is told, with what one already thinks instead....

This, for the record, is National Socialism (aka Stalinism). It's all about putting the means of production and communication into ownership by the people for the people - hence communal ownership - get it? It's about caring and sharing. See NHS, state education etc etc. i.e all the public sector service now under attack by 'freedom loving' anarchists.

If National Socialism is so evil, why do we not see and hear of the PRC doing terrible things to its own people? It is far more Stalinist than the USSR was after 1953.

SEDUCED BY DIGNITY (#16)

My error PFV. I venture we are in agreement - even down to the sanctity of chips. (:o)

Mr Singleton
from mimpromptu
have just read your #43 of yesterday and this morning's #21
The whole thing is too mad for words, isn't it?

erratum (#20) "Watch the news for more for more doses of this propaganda."

I don't mean to suggest that the BBC (or other channels) have a policy of actively peddling propaganda (if anything they have a vested interest in reinforcing statism cf. the Murdoch speech). Like other news vendors, the BBC produces/broadcasts material which it thinks is interesting news.

#20 Jaded_Jean

"Just remember:

a) Neoconservatism=Trotskyism=Workers Democracy=People's Choice=Free Market Liberal-Democracy=New Labour/Conservatives/Lib-Dems=Anarchism = 'Good'

b) Old Labour=Stalinism=Democratic-Centralism=Statism/Public Ownership of Means of Production/Communication/Regulation of Financial Services as GOSBANK/GOSPLAN etc = 'bad'."

Ah the "genius" of the far right Jaded_Jean.

According to your scrambled egg logic Old Labour = "Statism".

National Socialists and Stalinists are "Statists".

Yet the vast majority of "Old Labour" fought the Nazis in WWII and did National Service in the Cold War with the Stalinists. Most contemporary Labour voters despise Nazis - as do most people.

This is almost as pathetic as your argument that the Holocaust was made up to put people off "statists" .... all of the deaths were to disease and any violence was down to the Russians .... who were "statists".

Also you imply Stalinists and National Socialists were almost synonymous.

By the way about twenty five to thirty million comrade "statists" died at the hands of the Nazis.

#20 Jaded_Jean

"You appear to be doing your bit for deregulation/anarchism/business your people, just like thegangofone. The question is, do you both know this, or are you both perhaps being used as unwittingly as 'useful idiots'? Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially if, when advised to compare what one already thinks, with reference to the outside world as a reality check, one just compares what one reads or is told, with what one already thinks instead...."

If somebody posts that Hitler did not die in the bunker but hid behind a bush and is still there awaiting the return of National Socialist mania do I follow the links or do I think "cuckoo, cuckoo"?

One of your "reality checks" is for instance your evil and blatantly false Holocaust "agnosticism". Does anybody need to go further than the contemporary news films, the camps, the confessions, the testimonies and the trials? No. If you have new evidence are you going to take it to any trials like alleged Nazi death camp Djemjanjuk? No. Are you going to posthumously change the reputation of Goering? No.

On your flawed racial analysis you can't grasp that genetic variation is greater within a race than between races hence there is no basis for your so called race "realism". Do you have the backing of major academic centres? No.

Finally your adolescent attempt at brain washing relies on the notion that an individual should check out any crazy's ideas just because the crazy wants that.

Am I going to book up on the thoughts of Charles Manson? No. Compelling reasons for Mayan human sacrifice? No. Does the Baby P batterer and child rapist and his brother (both far right) command attention? No.

Given that your own psychological ownership of your flawed and probably inherited ideas is so massive are YOU capable of change? No. I am guessing that you are a third generation National Socialist.

Why do I bother refuting your hideous ideas mirrored by your fawning acolytes? Because some people may not pick up on the hideous evil that lies beneath the surface and that you call National Socialism.

barriesingleton (21)-

Absolutely. I suspect we would find ourselves in total agreement over fish and chips and a pint of Guinness, putting the whole world to rights - wihout an ounce of responsibility for the results!!

Lots of fun, though.

thegangofone (#24) Those who fomented the conflict which resulted in WWII counted on the fact that many in power are not as smart or in control as they would like to be. This is especially so in the Liberal-Democracies. You may have noted that GB's policy initially was appeasement. There were some in GB who did not want a war with Germany. It cost GB its empire. Who benefited from that?

Yes, Old Labour was statist. That's what Clause Four was all about. Sidney Webb was behind that. See his book on the USSR with his wife.

It may not have dawned on you yet but I am not telling you what is in your history book. I am analysing what happened and explaining how and why human behaviour is as it is.

PS. Dogs are very similar genetically, but don't try to use a Chiwawa as a sheep dog. We are also about 50% similar to bananas, but don't try to mate with a banana (or anything else 'very similar to' us).

PPS. You and I are clearly very 'different'. Is that racist?

#5 mimpromptu

"What you need to understand is that jj may be playing around with BNP but he is also known to play around with all the other parties as part of his 'essential mission' and I suspect he may be contributing to all this nonsense that's going on in Russia."

Lets not take Jaded_Jean too seriously but ...

The playing around with other parties seems to be purely as a way of showing that National Socialists are left not right; Stalinists and National Socialists are much the same; Old Labour were more Stalists; New Labour are " anarchists and Trotskyites" .... Therefore the BNP should inherit disillusioned old Labour votes. Where can they reach Old Labour voters?

But given that the Jaded_Jean Holocaust "agnosticism" often relies on trying to stitch up the Russians for any violent deaths I don't see the Russian connection. There may be a European connection via Fiore who goes for the "nice fascists in suits" routine that Griffin adopts. He was also indicted once for the Bologna train station bombing but it went nowhere.

"I'm not aware of Mr Lavrov coming to Poland on Tuesday." - Not sure I said that?

On Putin clearly there are concerns over the way people get murdered in Russia - journalists there are REALLY brave - but I still think they are heading in the right direction and this is an evil over reaction of underlings.

I can see that as a new democracy they can't balance immediately their war time admiration of Stalin with a demi-God who executed people for no particular reason other than they could represent a threat to him, not the state, one day.

But Stalin did attach himself to a genuine, and flawed, ideology whilst I see National Socialism, much as Bertrand Russell suggested, as simply a replacement aristocracy. The ideology is just widgets to justify and legitimize some self serving dictator.

By the way I think Jaded_Jean may be Nick Griffin but it is of no import either way.

#6 brossen99

"They got stuffed initially but the winter saved them likewise Napoleon, but perhaps the key was the T34 Tank, and the possibility that most of the potential Trotskyites had got killed in the Nazi invasion ?"

Spoken like a true "Muslim".

Damn! With the far right factor I nearly forgot to add my comment on the bank bonus piece.

Why are people so over focused just on the bonus. Even if they do limit the bonus culture (what is excessive and how do you enforce it once banks are back on their feet etc) its the risk taking that nearly did for us.

If traders think risky deals will get them promotion (more money) then yee hah.

If instruments are incompetently credit rated then how does a bank or the FSA know what the risk is? I gather some AAA rated instruments proved to be worthless.

If the banks don't understand derivatives then how do they do proper risk analysis?

If all of the banks use different credit risk analysis methodologies how does the FSA/BoE see the big picture?

What new powers does the FSA have?

Why would we see a crash coming in time today when we failed to see it coming before September 15th?

Bonuses are a symbol and they are to an extent a factor but I think the need is for control whilst letting the banks earn. At the moment the financial sector is an unbridled and self willed horse that nearly took us over the cliff. If we don't learn the lessons it will happen sooner or later. Pop a harness on and let the horse run - in safety.

IT'S GOOD FOR THE (DEREGULATED) ECONOMY?

thegangofone (#25) "One of your "reality checks" is for instance your evil and blatantly false Holocaust "agnosticism"."

Please explain to us all why you think it is evil not to believe in 'The Holocaust'? Surely most decent people would prefer there not to have been one? If alternative explanations can be given which explain the available statistics without a mass genocide, surely that would be a good thing?

It is this, almost religious obsession, with mass murder and other (rare) extremes of human behaviour (and specifically directed at Jews it would seem) which makes me and others (no doubt) suspect that people like yourself desperately want there to have been a genocide so that you can discredit state socialism, perhaps because such systems limit your opportunities or others you wish to help.

Do you personally benefit from expressing such views? I can see how those who claim that they 'survived' a holocaust may do so in order to benefit from affirmative action. There's been quite a lot [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] written on this, and I can see how some people might earn a living from constantly attacking those who challenge the veracity of those who tell tales of persecution. It looks to me that as the Liberal-Democratic free-market anarchism is reinforced by such behaviour, and that this may be why these stories are so frequently reinforced by the Liberal-Democracies' media. Do you think that may be it? You see, the USSR never made a big deal of it, even though they liberated the Eastern camps.

They were statists of course, they had no interest in toppling their own system did they?

#20 Jaded_Jean

"The question is, do you both know this, or are you both perhaps being used as unwittingly as 'useful idiots'? "

I am often called an "anarchist and Trotskyite" by you far right types and also a "useful idiot" - "manipulated by Jews" in their world or free thinking in another - but why not go for the occasional "inferior pig dog" that would so fit your grand self assessment and psychological disposition.

But whatever - its a badge of honour.

thegangofone (#32) I tend to talk about behaviours, not people per se. It's behaviours which matter. Here it's written behaviours.

I don't know you.

I'm not aware of having been abusive (about anyone). If you'd care to cite verbatim where I have been, I will reconsider that asserion.

Looks like the Corporate Nazi thought police are out in force again, or is it just the Saturday mods who are particularly touchy about anything even hinting about the probable truth of our alleged democracy and Free Speech.

addendum (#33) In my experience, people don't get to do science MSc's without having gained a decent science BSc. The former training should teach people how to talk about other conceptual schemes without being abusive. It doesn't always work out that way, but for many it does. Higher education is deteriorating these days alas.

Political 'science' and sociology etc, are not sciences, any more than Management 'science' or economics is.

FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION RESPONSIBILITY (#26)

The monarch, Westminster, parties, PM, ministers, MPs, voters - none takes responsibility. No one now resigns out of honour. Power without responsibility is firmly installed.

This is the political culture of drift. Mending the banking system was like putting a new liver into George Best. When faced with a symptom of global malaise: to cure the symptom and hope the patient lives until our retirement, is dishonourable, and perfectly defines the governing ethos of Britain today.

I have repeatedly called on voters to 'SPOIL PARTY GAMES' and install reluctant local heroes of integrity at Westminster. I recently found that Plato made a similar point at the end of his 'Cave' analogy (if I understood!). Nothing changes.

https://brossen99.livejournal.com/2627.html

barrie (#36) "Mending the banking system was like putting a new liver into George Best."

Coverage of the G20 seems to suggest just that. Bank buffer-capital to protect them against over-leverage shocks in the future; promises by banks not to pay themselves too much unless they do really, really, really well; and some of the big players who were treated as small players invited to take their real economic status (e.g. China) - basically a band-aid, lots of rhetoric, and then back to business as usual?

The problem is:- Liberal-Democratic demographic prospects look really awful given their ageing populations, low TFRs and the dumbing down (i.e. for USA, Japan and Europe etc).

But no mention of how any of these drivers are going to be 'addressed'..

#35
"Political 'science' and sociology etc, are not sciences, any more than Management 'science' or economics is." Can't let that pass unmoderated!

OED definition 'Science:knowledge arranged in an orderly manner, esp knowledge obtained by observation and testing of facts..etc.'

Are you attempting to establish a pecking order in this age of equality?

I'm cynical about political science and, to a lesser degree (no pun intended) about sociology. But I studied Management Science/Scientific Management, which included subjects such as Ergonomics, and Time, Motion and Method Study, based on measurement and calibration of movement and effect of environment and conditions on the efficiency of workers; and subjects like Organisational Psychology with an experiental approach.

These were applied sciences, with their acceptance and application requiring art as well as science. Getting astronauts on the moon required a lot of scientists, including those who developed scientific management approaches, such as Critical Path Analysis to meet JFK's ambitious deadline.

This government attempted Management by Objectives in Education and NHS., but failed to understand and provide for some of the pitfalls of the application of that management science. Charles de Gaul used it effectively when he planned to pull his troops out of Algeria on reaching a pre-specified level of casualties. Gordo should apply MbO in Afghanistan, but then neither he nor any of the cabinet are trained in management science.

indignantindegene (#39) Three decades ago some of that may indeed have been based on behaviour observation, recording, and quantitative analysis, but sadly, these days, your omission of the 'm' in experimental just needed an 'i' inserted after the 't' to accurately describe precisely why it's all gone to mush..;-)

On a technical note, yes - a science really does just come down to good control over one's variables - which means good measures. I just think that's dramatcally slipped in recent times. Just look into what most people choose to study at university, and the small numbers choosing subjects like physics etc at A level.

I fear I'm just describing it as it is today. :-(

INTERACTIVE YELLOW BRICK ROAD (#39)

Couldn't resist, IDG2. I have in mind something akin to the smart (Japanese?) toilet that diagnoses your physiological state. We need a diagnostic walk-way for politicians that detects urine seepage, knocking knees, high pulse (in those who have one) self-muttering and sweating.

Of course, it won't register on Balls or Gumby Bob and others who are AWOL, permanently.

PS - I forgot nail biting!

#28 from mimpromptu
thegangofone
I'm sure jj is not nigel, though he may be using him.
jj is playing a rather insidious game, identifying himself with all kinds of people and getting lost in it all.
Sometimes he says he is for Trotsky type communism, blaming the Jews for everything, and then he sets out to use this or that Jew if it suits his game. The same with black people. I don't want to give their names as I think it would be unfair to do so. I just wish they understood what they're getting themselves into. And on top of everything, with all his severe criticisms of bankers, celebrities and so on, he is one of the greediest, meanest and most selfish men I have come across. Methinks he is hoping for a big, big fortune and fame to come his way in the not too distant future.

NR

for something to be art it must be of benefit. so if a novel is just a pack of lies designed to generate income for an author and publisher then its not art.

Rt Rev Lord Harries of Pentregarth in this video lecture said

...It was not until 1917 that the formal study of English was approved at Cambridge....As a Professor of English at Oxford put it in his inaugural lecture early in the 20th century, the study of literature not only delights and instructs but above all it has "to save our souls and heal the state." This fundamental shift is well reflected in the prestige our society now accords to novelists and the prominence given in our newspapers to reviews and literary prizes compared to the space given over to serious discussion of religion....

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=4&EventId=783


so if literature is the new religion then a book of lies is a bad religion? or perhaps a good one?

mimpromptu (#42) Not only do you not understand my posts any better than thegangofone does, you don't even remain true to your own thoughts/words (see #17).

Here's a good bit of advice. When you don't understand what someone writes or says, but at least one other person does, it's best not to judge them, as you'll just end up making stuff up, and confuse what you think with what they have written/said. It might also help to ask, nicely, for clarification.

#40JJ. I did attend experiential(minus the m) advanced management training in Sydney, run by leading US University professors for Ozzy top managers: as the sole 'pommy' there, I experienced one of the most hilarious culture clashes ever! It added an extra dimension to exercises like 'thematic apperception' and 'resolving conflict within groups'.

Should be a must for Brown's cabinet ministers, and some NN bloggers?

#41 barrie. You should patent that right away, and get a prototype out before the proposed party chiefs' TV debate. For the General Election it would be an ergonomic breakthrough (fitting the man for the government machine)to be used on all prospective party candidates. One small step for spoiling party games?

NO EXPERIENCE REQUIRED

indignantindegene (#45) New Labour appears to be running non-experiential programmes for Senior Management positions in Education. I refer to them as Little Red Guard programmes. The participants are known as 'Future Leaders'. It appears to be a strategy which has proven very effective elsewhere in the Public Sector ;-)

#43 from mimpromptu
bookhimdano
As far as I'm concerned, literature is not obliged to do anything at all apart from finding at least one reader, whatever Rt Rev Lord Harries of Pentregarth says. If a writer has anything whorthwhile to say in terms of instructing his/her readers, all well and good but otherwise literature, like art in general, can reach absolute heights when created for their own sake, pure and simple, where the reader or the onlooker can experience and share with the creator of a given work a moment of pleasure, emotion or beauty with no instruction of any kind necessary.

16. At 00:07am on 05 Sep 2009, pfvlloyd wrote:
It's such a long, long time since I've seen one of ours who I would even let run a chip shop.

As their relative competencies are exposed and they are fired/resign/get on with the job of running the country, it often seems that many were in fact hired having recently left such a job 'to pursue more lucrative interests'.

Qualifications, relevant experience or ability seem less than essential to be one of Gordon's GOAT herd.

But trying to keep a brave face bringing something they ork with out of hot fluid time and again does seem to fast track their chances.

NOT ALL IT SEEMS?

JunkkMale (#48) In a Worker's Democracy (or is that 'free-market economy'? see the political battle/purges waged in the USSR in the 1930s), the government runs the country by devolving power to such an extent that there's little effective government - i.e permanent revolution. That takes legislation too. It's government, but not as we know it. In fact, it's best thought of as anti-government (as in anti-matter)...

It's good for the markets.

'The BBC has confirmed it may invite British National Party leader Nick Griffin to appear on a future edition of the Question Time programme.
...
The BBC's chief political adviser, Ric Bailey, said the BNP had now "demonstrated evidence of electoral support at a national level."'

Well I hope that the democratic political parties will cooperate more in the future and ensure that that electoral support is demolished as quickly as possible.

Irving is ranting again as reported in in IoS:

'Eminent historians have condemned a Spanish newspaper's decision to interview the controversial historian David Irving as part of its coverage to mark the 70th anniversary of the Second World War.

The Hitler specialist Sir Ian Kershaw, whose interview last Monday launched El Mundo's commemorative series, said he – and most historians – would have pulled out had they known of Mr Irving's participation.
....
Mr Irving served 11 months in an Austrian jail in 2006 for denying that the Nazis killed six million Jews.

He insisted yesterday that Hitler was not responsible, being merely the dupe of smarter collaborators. "Hitler was a simple man constantly deceived by his subordinates." The allegation that the Nazi leader sought to exterminate the Jews was, he said, "a propaganda lie. In Hitler's speeches there is only one anti-Semitic sentence. Something about 'when the war begins, I want the Jews to suffer'. But that's just a stereotypical expression."

Goebbels and Himmler were more to blame, he said, but Churchill – "a corrupt politician" – was responsible for the war: "He pushed the UK into the war and destroyed the British empire.'
--------------------------------------------------------
So nobody was killed in the concentration camps - but Himmler and Goebbels were more to blame than Hitler?

There was no anti-semitism from Hitler but the "internal political and economic threat" of Jews had lead to Jews being imprisoned in concentration camps following Kristallnacht and he was unaware. The arm bands?

How could the peace loving Hitler have said "when the war begins..." and Churchill be responsible for the outbreak of war?

No sooner is one lie constructed and demolished than another is thrown up. I doubt that it is even self delusion.

#42 mimpromptu

"I'm sure jj is not nigel, though he may be using him."

No idea what you are referring to there but no need to clarify.

The far right are utterly inconsistent and will use any lie or device if it has the desired effect.

But the key phrase is "anarchists and Trotskyites" they hate them - you hear that and you are almost certainly hearing the far right.

They do admire Stalin to a degree but given they fought Stalinists and shot them in Spain and murdered millions in the Soviet Union (Stalingrad etc) its a pretty inconsistent proposition.

Virtually anybody who is not a Stalinist or a Nazi is in their eyes "an anarchist and Trotskyite" - like me, a Lib Dem voter. I certainly despise them and I would hope the feelings are mutual.

Basically Hitler stole the ideological clothes of others and the Stalinist perceptions may reflect the inferiority he felt as he was to a large extent simply, as Bertrand Russell suggested, a replacement aristocrat.

On Jews they are even more insane than on Stalinists. In trying to understand this hatred (that may simply be a device to embroil others in mass hysteria that makes them manipulable) you may get as far as Stalin ejecting anarchists and Trotskyites in the thirties and then they flit straight to Jews being an "internal economic and political threat". Not people with brown hair or overweight males.

Discoveries in genetics mean nought to them.

Genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and there is therefore no basis in science for their racial views.

They are intellectually incompetent and evil with it.

Going back to James Murdoch and profit versus the state funded BBC what is the Sky/Fox take on Berlusconi and his media stranglehold both private and state in Italy?

Does that relationship, or lack of one, reveal anything interesting about motivations?

thegangofone (#51) "So nobody was killed in the concentration camps"

Has anyone ever been killed in prisons? If people die in prisons have they been killed? If epidemics kill people in prisons, is that murder? If so, are the British responsible for thousands of deaths in Belsen due to typhus?

Your reasoning is, I suspect, a little suspect. Often, historians try to work out exactly what happened, which can be very difficult during wars and their aftermaths, as there are lots of vested political interests at stake.

I'm sure some historians don't like to be challenged. That way, they remain 'authorities'. But isn't rationality all about being open to challenge?

Doesn't the fact that Irving spent time in prison for 'denying the holocaust' strike you as just a little odd in a so called free society? What's next? Imprisonment for not believing New Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives are right about Iraq etc? What might the post-war de-nazification and democratization program in Germany have encouraged to you think? Which group might it have most benefitted and how?

The BNP foot soldiers were protesting in Birmingham central yesterday. It was interesting to see the way this mini riot/standoff was reported from the usual news outlets. The BBC did its classic one size fits all for the left agenda; showing a bunch of what looked like football hooligans penned in a pub by the boys in blue and shouts from the anti-Nazies off camera, a good effort considering their vegan and replacement protein diet. The sky news angle was somewhat different; video footage of young Muslims hurling missiles at the police and chanting 'death to America!' with ANL placards used as weapons. ITV news showed all the above but included the beating of a young white male suffering a mob attack; later discovered to be an innocent shopper, (or Anti Nazi member) first rule of battle ignored; knowing who your enemy is. Never thought i would see the day when the 'Sky sports watcher and the 4 Carlings mob' get political, how are they gonna work this around the footie season I'll never Know. The real worry is, if the masses get mobilised for and against a cause, and even only at a very base level, we are in serious trouble. But like I've always said, multi-cultural/religious societies are always problematic. history it would appear...never gets learnt.

Dark days when banks reached brink of oblivion. Sir Fred Goodwin went white and silent.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/06/goodwin-rbs-lehman-banking-treasury

for the usa pbs frontline Breaking the Bank version

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/breakingthebank/view/

#54; the Gene Genie puts foot in mouth once more; partial arguments attempting to ignore the facts - facts, yup - gleaned from primary source materials; Wehrmacht correspondence, Reichsbahn memoes, leading Nazis' correspondence; they all establish beyond reasonable doubt the existence of Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka et al. as facilities whose sole function was to exterminate - "ausrotten" in Nazi parlance - those "races" seen as inferior; roma, jews, poles and russians as well as homosexuals, communists, catholics who rocked the boat, Jehova's Witnesses; or maybe just those who were denounced for being a bit different.

And then we have the proposition that Griffin appears on Questiontime. I have no problem with that; the man will not be able to contain himself for more than a couple of minutes before the flecks of saliva cover the table as he peddles his nonsense.

New Labour is the reason for the rise of the BNP; that's why they will be so reluctant to take a seat on the panel alongside him, but there are plenty of people who are able to engage in debate and argument with Griffin to expose his piffle.

m y b r ain s a y s t h e h o ur i s a t h a n d a n d m y b r a i n i n e v e r w r o n g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sF_xR9VOgQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLGrXOtuwQ&feature=related

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kasibeyaz (#57) "Wehrmacht correspondence, Reichsbahn memos, leading Nazis' correspondence; they all establish beyond reasonable doubt the existence of Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka et al. as facilities whose sole function was to exterminate - "ausrotten" in Nazi parlance - those "races" seen as inferior; roma, jews, poles and russians as well as homosexuals, communists, catholics who rocked the boat, Jehovah's Witnesses;"

But clearly, not everyone agrees do they? Why do they not agree? Why do they have doubts? Might it be because a) the present world Jewish population (of about 14m compared to the pre war population of about 15.3) is about what might expect without mass loss of life in WWII? It's a group with a) a below replacement level TFR like other European groups, has a fertility issue as a consequence of high prevalence of NCAH (the highest known to man) and b) loses group members due to marrying out. In fact, some assert that 'The Final Solution' was in fact emigration to Madagascar. As stated before, all the camps you mention were in Soviet territory, which went behind the Iron Curtain in the late 40s, right up to the 80s. I think you might look into this a little more as it seems to enjoy a lot of publicity, but to what agenda if not anarchistic democratization (as opposed to statism cf. the PRC). Finally, why would Germany be at all threatened by an 'inferior' race? This group was dominating Berlin in the 20s and 30s, not to mention having toppled the Tsar in 1917. In fact, the Germans saw this group as a major competitor - they even modelled part of the Nuremberg Laws of race on Jewish law. It's an endogamous group you know.

Maybe you should think more on the things which you are sure of?

Addendum (#60) Which country was told to stay out of the fighting in the first Gulf War? Which country is near Iraq, and why are we in Iraq and Afghanistan. Read Abbas' PhD/book and see who supervised it.

Addendum2 (#60) The Pale of Settlement was where most of the fighting in 'Russia' was limited to. This was also where the original group which took Tsarist Russia out of WWI came from (as well as the migrants who went to London and NYC at the end of the C19th and early C20th). It was this Ara which was therefore, a major source of anarchism as well as Bolshevism. In the late 1920s and 1930s, the USSR was purging it's original Bolsheviks, the leadership of which had largely been Jewish (even according to Hansard in 1919). in Te mid 1930s, The Axis Powers made a Pact to thwart the Communist International, which was essentially Trotsky. Stalin had spent the 30s trying to shut this down, regarding Trotskyites as enemies of the USSR.

The Germans were at war in WWII with the COMINTERN. Is it not possible that those killed in the Baltic States and rest of the Pale of Settlement (including Poland) were original Bolsheviks/Commissars, which, as a class, was coextensive with Jews?

Barrie

''Mending the banking system was like putting a new liver into George Best''.


Made me laugh that in a 'supertruth laugh' kind of way, thanks for cheering me up as did the reference to Platos cave.

I made the mistake of reading the papers today containing various confirmations of what we already know about our ruling elite and those of other countries and the way they behave, yet still the populus has no focus and does not stir.

Jericoa (#63) Just remember:- Oedipus wanted to have sex with Jocasta, but not his mother.... ;-)

#63
Jeriooa
You're talking /to Barrie/ about papers, Plato, banks, Best's liver and the populus and jj's talking about sex. Is there no end this 'man's' perversity?
mimpromptu

and for 'goodnight' from mimpromptu to the vultures /is jj in attention?/
with 'advice' on how to finish off outstanding people able to earn big bucks with their talents, examples: Michael Jackson, Elvis Prestley, Bob Marley, etc
as portrayed by Nina Simone in her song 'You took my teeth'

You took my teeth
You took my brains
You try to drive me so insane
And now you're trying to take my eyes
But it is finished
Because I'm too wise

That is why Bob Marley died
That is why Bob Marley died
That is why Bob Marley died
You took his eyes
Boo boo boo boom
Boom

from mimpromptu
apologies for misspelling a couple of names, i.e.
Jericoa and Presley

#66 from mimpromptu
Last night it was 'goodnight' to the vultures
and this morning it's GOOD DAY to the RIGHTEOUS

mimpromptu (#65) Divisive and oblivious to intensional opacity...

AND MOTHER NATURE WAS CONFUSED - AS USUAL (#64)

"Oedipus wanted to have sex with Jocasta, but not his mother.... ;-)"

Not that simple JJ. When 'family face' encounters 'family face', and a 'match' registers in the two brains, lust ensues to a high probability followed, if at all possible, by coupling. This is theoretically mediated against by the inhibitory effect of family/group closeness (hmmmmm) but it looks likely that MN wants the gene pool kept fairly tight, and incest is a risk worth taking.

'Animal Oedipus' was internally programmed to mate with anyone carrying his 'family face', unless 'cerebral Oedipus' was inhibited by external impingement.

Sorry, this is off topic, but, did you know Jeremy's portrait (amongst those of Professor Stephen Hawking, Stephen Fry, JK Rowling, Kenneth Branagh, Denzel Washington and many more) are going up for auction to raise money for The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children.

Source: https://www.e-clecticportraitproject.com/search/label/Jeremy%20Paxman

...just read

Source: https://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/latest/2009/09/07/paxman-brand-reveal-delights-115875-21654502/

"Paxman gets lyrical over the constant cycle of renewal indulged in by frogs in his essay.

He writes: "Houses burn down. Governments, jobs, even friends and relatives, come and go. But each spring the frogs will be down there in the pond, copulating and spawning in a frenzy. They'll be at it long after we're all completely forgotten."

The volume is being published by Waterstone's and Faber in aid of Dyslexia Action and the London Library to help both charities encourage the delight of reading."

Fantastic or what? :o)

#70 from mimpromptu

Mr Singleton

I've never really understood the Oedipus complex as described and analysed for thousands of years, especially in terms of Mother Nature, as you call it, but am not at all trying to undermine your analysis which I do find interesting.

I think what can happen within families themselves is the closeness of existence and to a certain degree openness to emotions between family members which we would normally keep at bay with 'strangers'.

And to be frank, what works for me is the intensity and truthfulness of emotions. Anything less than that has always kept me uninterested. And if I feel coldly manipulated with calculated planning then it is a definite turn off.

#71 from mimpromptu
Mistress76uk
Thank you for that.
Have you volunteered yourself?

#73 continuation from mimpromptu
And to add to the above, thinking along similar lines, i.e. being on similar wavelengths, having complementary interests and a caring, firmly grounded in reality, attitude to others do help quite a bit in my case.

HOW AND WHERE LANGUAGE MATTERS

barrie (#70) As I suspect you know by now, it is an illustration of the intensional (opaque) nature of a psychological verb of propositional attitude (here: 'wanted to'). This is true of the other psychological verbs too. They are resistant to existential quantification in (where existence here refers to the logical quantifiers) and substitutivity of identicals salva veritate, the sine qua non for rational inference. It's why the sciences eschew the intensional idioms, as rationality does in general.

I am illustrating something useful about human behaviour (and its exploitation) in these blogs. Wheter some appreciate that is besides the point. It is (extensionally speaking) being done.

Don't know if anyone remembers all the strange goings on on the Blog on 3 rd August. Comment 8 onwards.

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/08/monday_3_august_2009.html

Just got an email from Rupert Sheldrakes researcher, Rupert might be having a look.

KingCelticLion (#77) Gavagai!

On Afghanistan/Pakistan we know the Talibs insurgents make a lot of money from drugs and corruption.

We know that al Qaeda was well funded.

If they seem to be operating out of Pakistan are they now reliant on a take of the drug money for some kind of service (training?), largesse or does money emerge from Saudi or elsewhere and get wired to them in one off transactions?

mimpropmptu (#73) "And to be frank, what works for me is the intensity and truthfulness of emotions. Anything less than that has always kept me uninterested. And if I feel coldly manipulated with calculated planning then it is a definite turn off."

You appear to mistakenly think that you are only using your reptilian brain (limbic brain or rhinencephalon). This is demonstrably not the case (like so much that you believe/post alas.

I suggest you listen and learn a little. It will be good for you. You are giving females a bad press.

#76 jaded_jean

"I am illustrating something useful about human behaviour (and its exploitation) in these blogs. Wheter some appreciate that is besides the point. It is (extensionally speaking) being done."

Your "explication" trips up on its own pretensions as usual.

There is nothing useful about people who can't grasp that genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and that social analysis that presumes significant genetic predilections based on race is useless.

Additionally your portrayal of Jews as an "internal economic and political threat" is therefore additionally a malicious and paranoid fantasy of lies.

Your Holocaust "agnosticism" barely hides your attempts to deny and as stated before there is a mass of confessions, trials, witness statements, Nazi documentation to show there was a Holocaust. So your views are not "useful" and you almost certainly know there was but have only gone as far as talking of "persecution" of the Jews. You won't be offering your "statistics" to the Djemjanjuk trial or any other trial.

Irving may bleat on but he lost in Austria and he would lose anywhere else where you can't flit from one lie to another.

So in general what you really seek is not to pass comment on behaviour but to subjugate minds via propaganda to National Socialism whereas I would see education and knowledge as liberators that improve democracy in the long run. I vote Lib Dem but democratic politics needs a rich tapestry to function well.

Are you appreciated?

Not by me!

I see you as a self obsessed automaton that probably was brought up in a National Socialist background and is incapable of seeing its flaws and therefore relies on lies and induced racial hatred to spread an evil and incoherent philosophy.

#77 from mimpromptu
Celtic Lion
a propos:
The ‘funny’ bunny craved for a nanny.
Nanny not one bit amused by bunny
Said no to bunny - not felt that sunny
Not to be seen as funny bunny.

War he was planning if not in charge.
Cloud cuckoo land or life on barge?

I'm sure it could be improved but I'm off now

thegangofone (#81) "Are you appreciated? Not by me!"

So you keep telling us all. Ad nauseam. ;-)

VOLTAIRES ARE NOT AMPERES - DEFINE YOUR TERMS! (#76)

But JJ, you did not define 'Oedipus', hence we do not know quite what/who the verb 'wanted to' relates to. For example: do we know the IQ of Oedipus? It might well impinge on the nature of 'wanting to' under the Oedipus aegis. (:o)

LIVING WITHN THE INTENSIONAL ('LIE')....

barrie (#84) "But JJ, you did not define 'Oedipus' hence we do not know quite what/who the verb 'wanted to' relates to."

I left you to go rabbit hunting. ;-)

The intensional idioms of propositional attitude comprise the psychological verbs, e.g. know, want, think, believe etc. Even apparently analytic terms like batchelor as unmarried man are in trouble, hence meaning by definiton.

IQ is a measure of behaviour, not knowing ;-)

"For example: do we know the IQ of Oedipus? It might well impinge on the nature of 'wanting to' under the Oedipus aegis. (:o)"

It may indeed tell us something about cognitive ability and its diversity which seems highly correlated with short-term memory span (especilaly backwards digit-span). Buttis is about the terms we use in language and how these mentalistic idioms fail standard tests of deductive logic/rationality. See Ch. 6 of 'Word and Object' (1960). Chapter 2 is all about rabbits i.e. gavagai - More accurately, the inscrutability of reference and meaning holism/critical mass ;-)

Here's one for ecolizzy and others. Is this the original Bolshevism/anarchism at work? :-(

#58 General Midwinter

The cost of the processing and communication system (which included a Tsunami early warning aspect) for the global environmmental management centre at the Millennium Dome was budgeted at £800 million, in the 2001 competition to find a use for it.

Celtic Lion