Newsnight and Newsnight Review tonight

Any action yet on the proposed name change of your programme to 'Labour Night' ?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

after 7 years training [longer than ww2!] the afghans need more outside troops? is the training that rubbish? or is there another agenda?

AQ don't need afghanistan to train when they have the protection of pakistan. So why pointless die [paying the blood price] in afghanistan when the 'bases' are in pakistan. Clearly if it had been a case of real and present danger to the uk we would have gone into pakistan. So its not.

its another neocon war. Another 'tonys' liberal interventionist war. which is based on arrogance [if not rcism] that our model is the only valid model of government?

Not far away is kazakhstan. No regime changing human right democracy mission there. Even though they have huge deposits of uranium and have not said they won't give them to iran.

take the troops out and improve uk border security and recognise some groups cannot be assimilated [as was stated in the report on china].

cohen is not a comic but a propagandist. the idioms within which he works fit a pattern of a certain mindset and culture. which is why he chose to make fun of black culture [ali g], muslim culture [borat] and now this character who also makes fun of those cultures.

what is the one culture he does not make fun of? is it his own?

2.

to be pc you must define people by their sexuality and their race. despite the obvious point that it is discrimination to focus on a narrow definition of what a person is and so ghettoise people. By emphasizing discrimination in society they prevent unity or common national feeling.
which is why media is segmented when actually that is a false definition of humanity. Family do watch tv together. But no the media wants the kids in one room, adults in another, gays in another, asians in another and so the balkanisation of society goes on.

pc, a child of relativist philosophy, is not a force for good in society because it promotes and emphasises segmentation and so division.

I DON'T LIKE SPROUTS BUT AM NOT SPROUTPHOBIC

I confess to not liking sprouts, but I am not sproutphobic. I'm sure of this as when I'm out shopping I do not get an urge to attack them when I see them on the shelves, nor do I hurl hate speech at them when I catch sight of them. When offered them at other people's houses I do tend to firmly but politely refuse, and tell my host that I do not like them one bit. If people told me I had to like sprouts or that there was something wrong with me because I did not like them, or if Newsnight had a special for sproutphilics, I wouldn't watch the programme. I hope Tescos etc will not force me to buy sprouts in the future.

'is gay culture now mainstream?' No! Many gay people talk in an affected way and I don't like straight peole talking in an affected way. Why do they do it? It's horrid.

I do not like seeing gay people 'celebrating' their gayness in parades any more than I like seeing straight people 'celebrating' how they like sex. I think it's all very weird.

So there.

No comment!

https://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/04/martha-kearney

The declared intention of Bush/Blair was to bring "democracy" to Afghanistan. In other words they wanted to change the entire culture of the Pashtun people to individualism instead of family/tribal loyalties.

The whole concept of Afghanistan and Pakistan as being "countries" in a Western sense is a nonsense anyway. They are constructs of the British Empire's intervention.

A short sharp surgical strike to take out Bin Laden was reasonable, but this interminable war against a different culture, who don't want Western values is insanity.

I'm not at all persuaded that the British Government knows what it is doing in Afghanistan ....

https://blogs.dfid.gov.uk/2008/10/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-civilian-in-afghanistan/

neilrobertson (#9) "I'm not at all persuaded that the British Government knows what it is doing in Afghanistan ...."

Does it matter so long as Israel's does? ;-)

If it really is - as Douglas Alexander was saying the other week - a matter of vital national security to stop Afghan poppies ending up on
the streets of Paisley, then perhaps we need a methadone programme in
Wee Dougie's constituency rather than troops dying over in Helmand???

It is easier for Obama - who has actually fought and won an election recently - to argue it is all about safeguarding Presidential elections
...... but that won't wash from Gordon Brown who has never called one in UK since he became Prime Minister. And Karzai is a rather wobbly 'ally'!

No wonder the troops on the ground are as confused as British electors.

#6 JJ
I wasn't brought up being told that sprouts were a criminal act - then being directed by law to completely change my attitude towards them; neither have sprouts changed their name from a thing 'that dare not speak its name' - then stolen one of the most naive and gentle words from the English language; nor do sprouts leap off the market stalls shouting 'lookatme, I'm in your face' whenever I see them. In fact we still have the freedom of choice to discriminate for or against with sprouts: there lies the difference, and that's why I don't dislike sprouts. I did hate them as a child because I was forced to like them.

indignantindegene (#12) "nor do sprouts leap off the market stalls shouting 'lookatme, I'm in your face' whenever I see them."

You wait, the day will come. It will start with them being advertised as 'The Chosen Ones' and lots of books about how great they are. If we don't regularly have some in our baskets, the checkout person will give us shifty looks implying we're sproutphobic. If we put 'sprout' into Google to see who really does like them, we'll get a scary message that Google is concerned about our offensive searches. There'll be NGOs keeping a watch out for defamation of these hard to find sproutphilics, and Congress/Parliament will be lobbied to pass laws so that 'sproutphobics' can be hunted down internationally, exradicted/extraordnarily renditioned, and put in prisons without trial and not covered by ICC jurisdiction.

#13 JadedJean

Presumably the war on the Pashtun is also justified by the fact that they don't eat sprouts?

#11 Neil

"a matter of vital national security to stop Afghan poppies ending up on
the streets of Paisley"

Then if you get your legs blown off doing it, once a year they will sell poppies to pay for your benevolent fund.

Celtic Lion

#15 KingCelticLion

What a cynic!

Don't you realise the opportunity that it gave Jim Murphy to make a speech from a tank in Glasgow!

Even the Colonel in the Newsnight studio admitted that the political strategy set out by British Ministers was 'incoherent' .............
but the junior officer class from Balliol tell us not to criticise as
most Brits know 'you won't be taking a Ryanair flight to Kabul for a stag-do in the next five years'? So that is what this is about then?!

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-home/article-23712927-details/The+Junior+Officers%27++Reading+Club:+Killing+Time+and+Fighting+Wars+by+Patrick+Hennessey/article.do

oldnat (#14) Yes, in fact, rumour has it that when Zinoviev translated Reed's 'class warfare' as 'holy war' (Jihad) at The Congress of the Peoples of the East at Baku in 1920, by the time it got translated into the local language of the ancestors of the Taliban, it came out as 'war on sprout-lovers'. ;-)

#18 JadedJean

You have made my evening!

Why do the commentators have to make such a big deal about being gay? It makes for a nauseating spectacle of self indulgence. Isn't Henry Conway the son of fiddling MP Derek who was making dodgy payments to his sons? What's he doing on the BBC Gravy Train? Hasn't he had enough of our money for doing nothing already? I thought the Police were looking into that, why is he allowed on when Julia Bradbury was suspended while the Police investigated Air Miles fiddles.

Is there any part of The Establishment that is not on the fiddle? It seems every time I turn on the TV there is another of them on milking the fees Gravy Train, particularly on the BBC.

No-one seems to have mentioned, when reporting the alleged tapping of celebrities' phones, that by not protecting yourself - doing something so basic as changing the default factory-set pin number - these people have brought it upon themselves.

Anyone heard of 'personal responsibilty'? Nah, this is loony-lefty Britain; someone else is always responsible.

THE GREEN SPROUTS OF DISCOVERY

You are mining a rich seam there JJ. I'm with oldnat #19.

In passing - ref: #11 - "It is easier for Obama - who has actually fought and won an election recently." Is that a typo? BOUGHT and won - surely?

5 more dead?

not one more british life should be wasted on this vain and delusional crusade.

Bit off topic but back in the real world the Corporate Nazi health-fascist wing are having another go at restricting the relative basic human rights of smokers. This time its on ships, alleged talk of "smoking cabins " but you can bet the corporate operators go for a ( theoretically cut cleaning costs ) total ban like railway platforms.

Perhaps double standards here, hit a few small tobacco farmers in the pocket with smoking regulations because smoking causes health problems. However, as long ago as 1987 I saw TV adverts in Australia outlining how Aspartame causes cancer ( admittedly funded by the sugar industry ), yet aspartame is still freely available and actually encouraged to replace sugar as part of an alleged more healthy diet. Perhaps obese people have a greater cancer risk due to the diet drinks / food laced with aspartame they consume whilst desperately trying to diet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIFDoOwSFM

NO PHOBIA - JUST ANATHEMA (# 12)

I STILL balk at being forced to like them. What is more I believe I am being entirely rational. Let me take you through it. First, I have a fine sense of smell. Second: there are other vegetables that come more agreeably to the human palate. Third, if god had intended us to eat sprouts, why did he make them a minority expression?

I'm an northern irish protestant by birth male living in dublin with a catholic by birth partner with two ghey brothers and a lebian best friend. I have to echo the programmes subtext about current heightened reverse bigotry. in the eighties we had gay is bad/ aids will kill you but generally i felt there was a consensus of acceptance and support ( not victimisation). now i find younger work colleagues very bigoted and phobic at an a hysterical level. what happened? your reviewers reflect my age group and older friends have reflected this concern. Has our current "state of more" taken the ability to determine self and therefore our relationship to others away. you just had a Maggie T clip on and it was chilling. I am a fat 46 het and ginger father of two daughters and i'm unsettled. What we see in the media is not a winterson moment. So far this week its Captain Jack and Ianto who are giving positive loving role model for all not the tokenism in the soaps. Maybe we need to change our names to Harkness Wild? or I've watched to much telly tonight.
Disappointed in ourselves - Dublin
James Mitchell

EXTREME SPROUT-BALLING

Don't ask, don't tell, anyone that (until I have proof otherwise) mercenary ARMED forces - like mountaineers - would not enjoy the game, were the threat of death absent. When a British woman sails round the world, we claim her achievement for Britain. If she had no risk of dying, would we bother? Likewise, the extreme sprout-ballers are claimed to be fighting for Britain. Is anyone going to test the assertion? Easily done Newsnight.

#25 barriesingleton

"if god had intended us to eat sprouts, why did he make them a minority expression?"

You might have known that the god-fearing Americans would have an answer for that.

https://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9781400071944

"Sprout Bible (Sprout Growing with God)"

#16 Oldhat

Cynic! Checked the definition, that'll do as part of my psyche.

Though I thought your jibe about Jim Murphy was uncalled for. I have also sat in a tank. It was at Crewe Carnival, and in the same week my mummy and daddy allowed me to stay up late to watch the moon landing.

#17 Neil

Clicked on your link, as you appreciate now it doesn't go there.

So took the options. This was my first.

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23716970-details/Emma+Watson+makes+a+boob+at+Harry+Potter+premiere/article.do

This was my second.

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23718129-details/Horror+as+black+cab+driver+decapitates+himself+by+tying+rope+around+neck/article.do

Thank you Neil who as someone else who thinks Edinburgh is 'somewhere down south' for showing me London.

PS Emma isn't being handled right, that's been obvious for a few months. Of course if she would like to contact...

Celtic Lion

#29 KingCelticLion

"I have also sat in a tank." Great! How did your speech go down? Did the moon land safely?

"ARTFULLY DESIGNED WITH VIBRANT FULL COLOUR" (The Sprout Bible) #28

Leaving aside the attendant vibration and 'full' colour, oldnat, I applaud your direction to the matter of design. Consider the lillies of the field: they pollinate not the root.

JIM MURPHY IN A TANK!!!!! (#29)

Fill it with water and shut the lid. (It's OK - Bob said there would be further losses.)

Did anyone else feel Martha Carney wasn't quite comfortable with Stella Duffy? To me it seemed an obvious reinforcement of the comments made by Johann (re Martina N) that society is not comfortable with lesbians. From my perspective her silencing and attempts to bypass Stella's challenge to the status quo is a sad reflection of the homophobia lesbians continue to face. Lesbians are not the acceptable gay friend. Strangely enough it seems that straight women have the most adverse reaction to lesbian women.

#32 barriesingleton

A loss???

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Kelly
Defo. I have similar personal experinece. My partner barely tolerates my lesbian work friends which is non sensical since being male I am of no interest to them. but maybe its a personal matter as she did "experiment". At college a friend, zara, had a similar soft attack of being ignored, when she was doing her professional practice exams and it ended in tears because of sub or unconsious hostilty. I do feel there are perceived acceptable nutured stereotypes of gay males and females, shrill hi camp men, brenda flicker or media chic fem (guilty). even beth ditto is starting to strain acceptability in that there is a new stereotype being beaten out in the music press and guardian. i accept i am in no position to have a valued perspective but i do feel martha didnt make the effort. having said that, the format is like a panel show/ bear pit.

this seems to be the link to Patrick Hennessey's book referred to in post #17 and 29:

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-home/article-23712927-details/The+Junior+Officers%27++Reading+Club:+Killing+Time+and+Fighting+Wars+by+Patrick+Hennessey/article.do

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-junior-officers-reading-club-by-patrick-hennessey-1719368.html

#33 Kelly

I didn't watch NNR. Not because Martha said all the panel were gay, but because I do not find Cohen funny. Ali G was funny. But for one sketch. On the Fast Show that's all he would be, one throw away sketch.

Cohen's humour I find in general is about ridiculing, demeaning or putting down the innocent victims. Michael Barrymore used to get really high ratings. But I never liked him either. His humour was based on getting a member of the public, then manipulating a situation to get the audience to laugh at them in some sort of psychological mind game freak show. There was nothing clever, illuminating, thought provoking etc.

I find Cohen similar. OK now with money and the Hollywood gloss, but still I don't find him funny.

Look at my comment #29. I made a crude jibe about Emma Watson. But that was about the situation she has been allowed to get into or been put into. By who. There was an edge to a young girl looking a bit worse and showing her bits in London.

NN said the panel was gay. If I was on NN would they say I was a white, heterosexual, male, who wasn't disabled or a celebrity or a media or politician type.

We have no ' ' category. So we don't really exist. We have done nothing though. OK we built the canals, the roads the railways, the bridges, the water and sewage systems, the schools, hospitals, houses, electrical, gas and communications systems. The cars, trucks, buses etc. But Nothing really that has any real bearing on life.

As we don't do important things like make films about fictitious, gay, fashionistas. Why should we be any part of the NN remit.

Lesbians should walk a mile in the shoes of white, male, heterosexual, not disabled, none celebrities to know what it is like to be sidelined by British society.

At least the lesbian was on NN. I will try and watch it and consider what you have pointed out.

Celtic Lion

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

SHARP AS A TENNIS-BALL (#34)

I hope you intend to post here regularly oldnat, it will sharpen-up my composition. (:o)

You are sooooooo right! But I think a few more question marks would not have gone amiss!

#39
Celtic Lion
I was going to watch Newsnight Review but awoke too late from my evening snooze.
My intuition tells me not to bother with Sacha and in my couch potato days never watched Michael Barrymore neither as I find cheap humour of this sort most unwelcome. In fact, I despise it.
I knew a sex joker once but when one tried to return it in his direction he would go all red in the face and become awfully defensive or fly into a temper of fury. Otherwise, quite a good bloke really - this one at least.
Don't overdo it on that bike of yours!
Have a good weekend.

Afghanistan

I think UK should either invest properly on the armed forces so as to give our troops maximum protection and the best chance of victory on the battlefield, or withdraw from Afghanistan altogether. Unnecessary casualties as a result of inadequate equipments damage morale; it hinders the progress of our soldiers from successfully carrying out their tasks on the ground. When it comes to making important decisions on Britains military operations in Afghanistan, I think Gordon Brown is indecisive and lacking leadership. If he decides it is in Britains interest to carry on playing a heavy role in defeating the Taliban alongside the Americans, for Gods sake, dont short change the army, and at least reconsider the proposed reductions on future defence budget (The last strategic defence review was conducted over 10 years ago).

Evolution of Journalism

Phone hacking, blagging, spinning it is the age of information and technology, what do you expect?

For two weeks running Newsnight Review has been issue-led - Iran last week and then this week portrayals of homosexuality (as other posters have pointed out, lesbians hardly got a look in - maybe Stella's initial teasing of Martha backfired) in culture. In both cases of course a cultural news event was the initial peg. Is this the new format of Newsnight Review (next week, portrayals of the surveillance society in popular culture?) or will we continue to be provided with a roundup (which I personally used to enjoy) of what's new in books/theatre/ballet/music/cinema etc? I didn't find the Iran programme, much though I admire Baroness Haleh Afshar, added a lot to what one would have gleaned long ago from following such developments even superficially, and from watching previous Newsnight Reviews (eg the Iranian art featured in the Saatchi M E art show). The two Iran books under discussion were published years ago, and at least one of them was discussed in its film form on NNR at the time. Surely there are newer manifestations of the vibrant Iranian culture that could have been discusssed.

afghanistan only makes sense if you buy into the idea there is a 'war' on terror rather than local acts of criminality that should be dealt with under the law.

there is no war except in the minds of neocons.

why does the guardian not name the journalists? one day at a time like the mps?

8 Dead in 24 hours, How many by British? born muppets? bring the Troops Home Kick the other OUT. easy init

I LOVE Sprouts always have always will.

Watched about ten sconds of NN review. (nn street cred all butt gone)

What kind of Gay was/were you talking about? there are 3 meanings to the word, I Plead/Take the 3rd

#41 barriesingleton

I'll stick around for a bit. The Scottish political blogs have gone quiet for summer. (There's an opening for you!)

Our summer is shorter than it is in the South of England, which may explain why our Parliament's summer recess is 25% shorter too.

dAllan169 (#47) "I LOVE Sprouts always have always will."

Mr Miliband will be pleased to hear that.

#49 Oldhat

Immigration Quotas

Was that a good idea revealing where you are from.

This blog is running very high on north of border contributors now.

Celtic Lion

#51 KingCelticLion

It's OK. I'm travelling incognito under the new name you've given me. Quite like it!

DOES HE DO TRUTH AND LOGIC?

"Mr Miliband also said the British mission was clear - to ensure Afghanistan could not again become what he called an incubator for international terrorism. Britain would not be secure, he says, until Afghan forces could provide security and stability for their own people.
"

Pull the other one Mr Miliband - if that were case surely there would be hundreds of thousands of French, German, Dutch, Irish, Spanish, Italian ...(27 EU states in all) + Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Russian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, African (think of all the aid we give), Indonesian etc etc troops making very short work of a few bolshy Afghans militants would there not?.... but they're aren't.

Might this just be about furthering the interests of a beligerent state in the Middle East?

Mr Miliband can insist all he likes, but what's required is a rational explanation which doesn't explain Britain's compromised domestic security as a consequence of it having been where it shouldn't have been, doing things it shouldn't, i.e. killing lots of people in Iraq and Afghanistan and telling them to live in the self-destructive way we do (see Liberal-Democratic TFRs).

#53 JadedJean

Coherence from supporters of the war is hard to come by. This from Nick Palmer MP on politicalbetting.

"It would, in fact, be worth fighting even if the coalition never completely won at all, and it simmered on indefinitely"

OBAMA DOES AFRICA - AND THEY CHEER.

"You can be just like us" he booms, "yes you can!" And his words are as coloured beads.

Weep World.

NEVER MIND THE POLARITY - FEEL THE PITH (#51)

It is always very apparent 'where' a poster's comments are 'coming from' Celtic. Anatomy trumps geography, every time.

"BE SELF-CENTRED LIKE US"

barrie (#55) "You can be just like us" he booms, "yes you can!"

As they were politicians, presumably they were bright enough to know that this translated as "rather than like them, i.e. the Chinese and SCO, who have this alien idea that in a democracy, people have duties towards one another and the state (law) before individual rights".

News reports most of the dead in China's recent disturbances were Han Chinese, but then 75% of the local population are Han apparently. What would happen if a minority group rioted in Brixton, Kent University, or South Central LA?

how long are we to swallow this crap from the MOD about the reasons we are there, they wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face. It is a failed policy with the daily sacrifice of very brave young men which is a national tragedy. The gutless politicians are not fit to lace their boots and as bad as the casualties have been over the last two days if we lose anotrher ten or twenty in the next week we are out of there. A politician only has self-interest as his motivating force and whether he will be out of a job if it all goes pear shaped. Public opinion is all against this 'we are doing a fine job out there' crap because it is not their son's being targeted but idealistic young men who believed what they were told i.e. that they would be given full support and defensive capability and not governed by cost considerations but as seasoned MOD watchers will confirm, all the Chinnook debacles were results of that basic problem.....a question of resources. T'was ever thus.

#56; no, no; you mean TAKE it!

#52 Oldnathat

Apologies. I must have had my cynical head on, then my brain connected to Oldhat-thinking of politicians etc.

I must have mis-read or then mis-wrote. But it was quite stressful at the time. There was heavy enemy incoming from the other side of the back garden fence.

Sniper rounds were entering the room, I assume from the upstairs of the house opposite or the trees to the side.

Or perhaps I was making a cup of tea.

Celtic Lion

WHAT DO YOU CALL MEN WHO ARE OBSESSED WITH HISTORY? DANGEROUS.

At his inauguration it was: you are either with us or ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.
Now Magic Obama has waved his wand in Africa and - "FROM THIS MOMENT, HISTORY IS ON THE MOVE!" There's humble.
Perhaps he will go on to 'turn back the tide' of HISTORY, followed by making HISTORY - er - HISTORY?

In all this he is just SO LIKE TONY! Tony gave us a 'NEW DAWN' and look what he did with that! OUR darkest hour came after TONY'S new dawn.

God knows what Magic Obama's 'history manipulation' will do to the fabric of space-time. I fear we may well find ourselves on the wrong aspect of reality.

#60 KingCelticLion

Other than that you have blown my cover, and I will now be hunted from this blog by resurgent Albion - no problem!

#61 barriesingleton

The darkest hour normally follows some time after one dawn and before the next.

#54 Oldhat

"It would, in fact, be worth fighting even if the coalition never completely won at all, and it simmered on indefinitely"

Killing people to bring them democracy is just a job creation scheme for politicians. It is also good for the profits of the arms industry.

In between construction work contracts always good to sign on, full record then without gaps of what you have been doing.

So Job Centre a couple of years ago. "Oh you're a metallurgist, there's a company here now interviewing for metallurgists. I can you an interview if you could wait 10 minutes".

"Wow yes!"

Interview was a breeze. Metallurgy and material science blah blah, highest mark ever awarded blah blah, R&D, foundry, blah, full apprenticeship, blah, quality control, 6 months shop floor technician machining, blah, setter, welding and fabrication, blah blah, heat treatment, all kinds, blah, Standards Room National Physics Laboratory, Blah, blah blah. Expert and specialist in spheroidal graphite cast irons, blah blah.

"So you're a ferrous specialist, have you any knowledge or experience of non ferrous."

Danger antenna alert began.

"Yes, metals and materials all obey the basic fundamentals, it would only be a matter of minutes to get myself up to speed on any metal, alloy or material if required".

Mega ripples of anxiety went through me. He had avoided telling me what his company did, he had wanted to know about me without disclosing his side. I had noticed but played along.

"What sort of non-ferrous?" (I started playing along a hunch, I was a metallurgist, but had also worked in forensics and evidential and information systems).

"Eh Brass". (He had given me the answer I had expected, now to back him into a corner and get a confirmation.)

" Seventy thirty?" (I played an ace, 70/30, this was the metallurgists term for the brass used for making cartridges and shell casings).

"Eh yes." (he was rocked and shaken, he had wanted to know if I knew anything about non ferrous, and in two words I had put an Exocet through his interview. First he knew I wasn't only a ferrous specialist, he knew he had given away he was arms industry, and I had got it from his knowledge of the composition of one alloy).

"You piece of ////. How dare you interview me for a metallurgist's position. I would rather spend the rest of my life on my hands and knees crawling through ////, refitting old sewage plants, than work in the scum of your industry."

At this point I had got to my feet, with the best Alan Sugar jabbing finger. He in recoil had kicked back his executive chair. Only to hit the wall behind. Without other option, he could only slide down his chair and under the desk, pulling his clip board over his chest for protection.

His face white, eyes full and projecting from his face, he had also lost control of his mouth, and it hung open in disbelief.

"You are the lowest form of life, blah, blah, no you are not even to be considered life. Blah blah. You earn your living as part of the process of killing others. You are below contempt, blah blah...If people like you didn't earn your living supplying the means to kill people. People would not die.. blah blah".

As I stood there jabbing my finger, and he tried to slither even further below the desk. I realised the interview was probably over. So I flounced out the door.

Unfortunately the lady who arranged the interview looked up.

"And don't you ever arrange an interview for me, without telling me it is for the arms industry".

So I had to flounce again, straight out the main doors into the street.

I don't do many hissy fits, but when I do I really do.

Strangely they never called me back for a second interview, just to check if there had been a misunderstanding.


Celtic Lion

#64 KingCelticLion

Enjoyed your story.

Almost 50 years ago, Eisenhower coined the phrase military-industrial complex. It's worth looking again at what he said.

" Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Interesting quote in the Independent re Afghanistan from Pavel Grachev ex-Soviet general

"I believed as sincerely as US officers do now that we were fighting there to help make our country safer. After the war, as a politician, I could see this war had been pointless."

What's an audience to think? All the news that's 'fit' for purpose:

Sunday, 12th July.

Guardian - Brown set to reinforce troops in Afghanistan
https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/12/afghanistan-taliban-troops-emergency-review-ministry-of-defence
Two thousand troops could be sent to Helmand following a review after the bloodiest day

Indy - Revealed: Brown's secret plan to cut Afghanistan force by 1,500
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-browns-secret-plan-to-cut-afghanistan-force-by-1500-1742747.html

I wonder which Aunty will go with? The truth, one hopes.

Well, I am listening to Breakfast News and it would appear that we must rely on the words of one G. Brown, who seems to be suggesting 'we' are fighting 'Alky Ada', who sounds more like a drunken relative.

Still for context, we are promised soon to be treated to an interview with some bod who has spent time with Taliban (how can Dear leader mangle that one? Tar Leebane?) leaders, which I am sure will offer appropriate balance. Yes, sure to.

Larks amercy!

One K. Maguire now on making the same point as a commentator.

I wonder if the editorial will help the public out on this, or at least highlight there seems to be a certain lack of clarity?

Ah... should have stayed with it a tad longer.

Having now had both Mr. Maguire and Andrew Marr sniggering 'allegedly' after popping out with something that is I believe to date remains unproven, might one ask if we are to expect 'news' from our publicly-funded broadcaster in future that is based, with convenient degree of separation deniability, on any old story that can be discovered in complementary print media, with the convenient get out that the anchors say 'allegedly' twenty times whilst winking and tapping noses like Eric Idle describing a conversation between a blind man and a donkey?

AAAAHH post 50 JJ The Last thing on Earth for me wood be 2 please that TWIT that includes the rest of tonys babes (war criminals)(clowns)(numptys) I would go Further/Farther (blog dog)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Beeb news this morning. Tragic news the Lady in Germany.

A Cure for this caper = Pass me the Burka

I am only 6ft 1 and a half. I shall search for the burka when I find one and a couple of Spares I shall Wear it with Pride.

Warned you about this " private " stealth tax last week, rowing back on the cost ?

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6684912.ece

https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/06/friday_26_june_2009.html

post #57

The am show, idiot from gov (niniband?) talking about Wind Farms, He is A Wind Farm, Apply Rule 2 all politicians.

Deaths not halting success - PM

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8146327.stm

I can't help but think the sacrifice of those who are dying fighting under the orders of, and with the limited 'support' of his cosy government might have seen this phrased a tad better.

75. At 09:55am on 12 Jul 2009, dAllan169

He must be a very well informed man.

Hence, in reply to Mr. Marr's reasonable suggestion that reductions are needed, he instead seemed to suggest that making new electric cars will solve matters.

With this, as with any government minster, I'd say any pronouncements are worth about as much as my kids' pension will be, and in his case last until he is moved, if not out of office in favour of the next talking head, to another ministry where he will have equally little clue on what he is spouting off about.

Personally I liked the idea of the green mortgages, but as with solar grants these may exist more in theory than in practice. And if the Nu Labour morning warm up act that is Kevin Maguire is anything to go by, even the loyal sycophants that get invited on to 'comment' objectively on the 'news' are not exactly convinced.

#65 Oldnat

Yes that's a good quote, I think I put a link to it a few weeks ago somewhere. How sad even the best words are forgotten.

#68 JunkkMale

Somehow I accepted a building society, the Northern Alliance, was involved in the fighting in Iraq.

But I feel this mass deployment of troops against a small village in mid Wales, Tally-Ban, is a step too far.

Celtic Lion

76 Aye Aye 2 That

KISS keep it simple stupid (gov/tony/gord) The link 2 terror from this country 2 Afghanistan/Pakistan only exists from THIS Country. IE If you find terrorists in this country. ASK THEM 2 LEAVE. how easy is it.

of coarse/course lawyers/politicians wouldnt be able 2 steal more money from US would they.

THE JAMES GORDON BROWN PHENOMENON

Today, Jimmie Brown said (not verbatim): "Afghanistan strategy is clear DESPITE the recent high death rate". What did he mean? Does clarity of mission diminish, in his 'understanding', with rising death-toll? This kind of semantic-stumbling seems to define the Brown Brain.

This is the same brain that conceived and delivered that bizarre YouTube performance and has now returned to 'Alky Ada', unabashed.

In passing, I know of no wife who would allow her man to makes such a consummate prat of himself, even if he were only in some lowly job. Sarah now seems to be being marketed as First Lady, but might she, first, attend to Jimmie's aberrant brain, and its unruly output?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8146318.stm

Ive found that using solar panels on a very small scale about 80 - 200 watts with a regulator, deep cycle battery and converter to power a laptop/pc and or small tv works very well in summer but it still requires more thought than many are prepared to do especially with regards safety of the battery off-gassing. I dont see the point in using higher power out-put and connecting to grid its just far to much cost. Also as far as I know grants are only available to home owners for this and other power generating devices, please correct me if wrong.

Id like to see easy to understand and the best advice for very small scale solar panel set ups and companies selling complete kits including suitable lower cost batteries. (preferably with a kimina lid venting system or the like)

I seldom agree with John Redwood, but this from his blog is clearly true.

"The governemnts defence of the war in Afghanistan is that it is making our streets in Britain safe. How do they work that out? ....... There are no signs that fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is about to stop terrorist training or Taliban activities in Pakistan.

POWER DISEMPOWERMENT AND THE CONTINUING WESTMINSTER MALAISE

Take a hard look at the REARGUARD ACTION successive governments practised (and still practise) to prolong the life of tobacco in the guise of 'taking steps' to curtail. Follow the money. All enquiries to Tobacco Barons Thatcher and Clarke.

Now look at alternative power - notice the similar foot dragging. Follow the money. When it comes to power - YOU CAN'T BEAT OIL AND NUCLEAR. They are far to powerfully enmeshed with governance.

Watch as the years drag by, governments' 'concern' with clean energy, as with tobacco, and note government initiatives-that-do-little - as with tobacco. This is YET ANOTHER INDICATION THAT THE WESTMINSTER ETHOS IS OUR PROBLEM. Nothing will change, in any pragmatic way, while politics is about PARTIES hence POWER hence MONEY hence HYPOCRITICAL ASSOCIATIONS hence OBFUSCATION AND DISSEMBLING.

Only one act is IMMEDIATELY available to the electorate, to change the dynamic:

SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

*sigh* So I can't - robustly - express my concerns about what I see as the appalling misuse of science etc. in our justice system because of our almost equally outrageous libel laws? May I suggest that the BBC, in the interests of its public service remit, consider moving its operations to e.g. New York, where I believe they've enacted laws (or are going to) specifically designed to counter the threat to their citizens' right to free speech presented by the despicable UK laws? ;-)

DROPPING THE OTHER SHOE (#82)

Likewise, no red-blooded bloke can be in doubt of the FURY we engender in all-and-sundry 'others' (especially if they are on the wrong side of history or up The Axis) by our moral offensives (sic) launched from two of the most morally indefensible nations on the planet.

If some of that fury is expressed against our innocent civilians through indiscriminate bombing, do we - or many of the bombed - have a leg to stand on, when it comes to righteous protest?

Discuss NN? Thought not.

Afghanistan

"Is UK and US are pursuing the correct strategy ?"

Wake Up, the strategy has changed , for the last 2 or more years it's been glaringly obvious that more resources were needed to do the job. Now our Allies the USA (and others) have brought in substantial new resources , it's a shame our Government could not find more than the 800 new troops to send, as it was reported that our Generals asked for 2500 reinforcements to do the job.

"Is there any alternative?"
No, President Clinton tried a limited response policy when the African Embassies and the USS Cole were attacked , 911 showed that a limited response policy did not work.

"And has it become the classic guerrilla war in which all the Taliban has to do to win is not to lose ... and sap the morale of the outsiders who have come to pacify them?"

No , the Taliban (narco terrorists) need the opium money to survive, if this is denied to them , they are finished on both sides of the border.

NARCO ARMSO DEMOCRO - ALL FALL DOWN (#86)

Would it be reasonable to term the UK: 'armso-terrorists' or perhaps 'democro-terrorists', as we sell arms to VERY dodgy people, endangering the world, and FORCE a corrupt form of democracy on distant lands, endangering stability?

RIP former NN presenter Donald MacCormick 1939 - 2009

Now Im absolutly not expert on this but can't the army find an inventive
low cost way of sorting out IED's, maybe having a non-manned long
vehicle pushed in front which has some form of simple independent
steering mechanism and have troops walking parallel to tracks and roads
instead of on them. Maybe Im talking nonsense but there must be an answer of ingenuity and low cost to this problem.

#87

Hi

Sorry what has arms control to do with the ISAF mission in Afghanistan ?

"and FORCE a corrupt form of democracy on distant lands, endangering stability? "

1) corrupt form of democracy ? , please explain
2) Stability , I guess that's why the UN Security Council is involved, giving it's authorization (resolutions 1386 1413 1444 1510 1563 1623 1659 2707 2776, to name a few) for the ISAF mission over the past 8 years.

barrie (#87) Not only that... "When the Taliban arrived in the village 10 months ago and drove the police out, local people rejoiced, said Mohammad Rasul, a toothless elderly farmer who keeps a few cows and chickens in a neatly tended orchard of pomegranate trees, figs and grape vines."

Do we really know what/who we're fighting for?

#90 JJ

I've posted it before. But it is worth posting it again in context of the comments on this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsyBEv1dbLo


Celtic Lion

#82 and others
"The government's defence of the war in Afghanistan is that it is making our streets in Britain safe. How do they work that out? .. There are no signs that fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is about to stop terrorist training or Taliban activities in Pakistan." John Redwood MP

During the past century we have seen many examples of Western countries trying to impose change by force and destruction on others; all of which ended with much loss of life on all sides, with few if any changes for good. An occupying force will always be resisted by every means available, particularly when it is attempting to impose by force a way of life, belief system, culture and form of governance that is totally alien to that which has existed for countless epochs.

A huge increase in terrorist training is a direct result of such an invasion.

Given that most of the training is in Pakistan, why has UK allowed some 85,000 visas to Pakistani citizens, according to latest year figures available from UK Border Agency website? We are not averse to applying sanctions that deprive innocent citizens of unreceptive governments of food and medical aid. Why not apply the sanction of NO ENTRY to countries that can not, or will not, control their societies? If they teach and preach a way of life that is unacceptable to our society then surely the sanction of no entry will avoid the clash of civilisations that we are using as an excuse to perpetuate the war, yet still welcoming alien values into our society.

Wow you mods have been really really quick since Friday, and even allowing 'edgy things' if they had a hint of cynical, ironic or otherwise humour that could contribute to the blog.

Thanks for your efficiency and attitude over the weekend.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS (#89)

Hi Steve. Lessons have been learned . . .

Wouldnt it be good if Newsnight reviewed Mr Leonard Cohen? - /or at least somebody did an interview with him for a newspaper/ not only about his loves and his life but also about his thoughts and musings on more universal issues. After all he does write and sing about all kinds of things. And how!

#
Celtic Lion
'there is time to laugh and there is time to cry' /loosely based on L.Cohen's 'So long, Marianne'/ and there are times in between

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3LdMAqUMnM

GOOD HEAVENS - NOT MORE MONEy 'DIVERTED' BY PARTY POLITICS?

I gather Crikey Crick is on steam radio today (with digitised steam) exposing local-government party chicanery, with our money. Another reason to

SPOIL PARTY GAMES

locally as well as nationally.

indignantindegene (#92) Given that most of the training is in Pakistan, why has UK allowed some 85,000 visas to Pakistani citizens, according to latest year figures available from UK Border Agency website? We are not averse to applying sanctions that deprive innocent citizens of unreceptive governments of food and medical aid. Why not apply the sanction of NO ENTRY to countries that can not, or will not, control their societies?"

Is it because of the falling indigenous (and dysgenic) birth-rate (and increasing trend for the indigenous 'working class' to look to the BNP instead of Labour) plus the fact that South Asian Commonwealth migrants have low mean ability but a high TFR, which means more kids in schools, more sales in supermarkets and retail sector generally, and lots more opportunity to build, rent and (if secularised) loan lots of mone at predatory interest rates to such people? This is why I say 'liberals' are venal. They take the moral high ground over racial equality when in fact, the consequences of their behaviour as predatory. This is why I suspect they resort to invesctive when pressing their cases, it's because the facts show up in the analysis of data - e.g. 99.x% of London' growth over the next 30 years being in the BME groups, largely S Asian, which will be a net drain on the economy (as money is leeched out of the economy to go offshore by those who prey on the above). Yet it's very good for Liberal-Democractic parties like New Labour and those who fund them as they promise great things for these groups relative to what they would have back home, but at whose expense? This is not a criticism of South Asians etc, who tend to be law abiding, family people. It's a criticism of those who profit from them through other tax-payers funding their needs, which in turn fuel PFI etc, which is now funded, if one looks closely, by taxpayers' progeny of the future. These are unlikely to be proportionally from these groups for which reasons I have given above and elsewhere. Their growth in numbers is an opportunity for predators to make money out of public services as I see it (see BSF in schools etc).

Just an idea or two.

BY APPOINTMNET ONLY

It would be an interesting exercise in forensic accounting to follow this up and statistically look into the chronology of the Madoff Ponzi Scheme (and others, as his and Stanford's can't be the only ones) focusing on the size of investments (and ethnicity) of the early 'invitees' vs the later feeder funds. Some of the early investors did very well out of the scheme, with double figures every year, i.e 1% a month on their initial investment.

Were there was any group networking differences between the early (decades ago) vs later contributors? if all groups were equally hit, that would be interesting.