Arsenal AGM leaves fans underwhelmed

Not all doom to finish 4th this season.

and the purpose of this blog is ?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

totally agree, & am not even so sure about finishing top 6!!!!

I guess BBC is trying to create doubts in minds of Arsenal fans ahead of Chelsea game.

We lost 8-2 to manchester 4-3 to blackburn but still fans were there right till the end. Unlike when manchester lost 6-1 to its rival club and fans left half way through in second half.

as a gooner I'm very alarmed the Club is even remotely interested in closer ties with that site for muppets facebook.

as for the rest, hearsay,gossip and innuendo spring to mind.

poor article to say the least.

I agree that a 30% shareholder with a clear and consistent desire to be involved with the club deserves better treatment from the Board.

I also agree that Dein would be a better frontman for us than Hill-Wood or Gazidis.

But we can't abandon everything we've stood for in recent times in terms of a sustainable business model in the hope of competing for resources with Man City. Until the oil money runs out, that just isn't going to happen.

So we have to be patient, we have to build. And we have to accept that players like Nasri will leave us to play a bit part at City rather than be at the heart of the team. We need more Frimpongs and Wilshere's - players who are Arsenal through and through. That means less glory boy signings, more players who really get what Arsenal is all about. Players who care as much about the club as we do. And if in the long run, we stay competitive, play great, entertaining football, that surely is the true measure of a club - has been since Chapman's days, and remains so today.

Talk about aiming high - fourth is the new first!

I am the 8th comment on here - can I get a medal Arsene?

Arsenal have built, or are trying to build, a self sustaining club. Something that is not easy to do whilst remaining successful. Man City and Chelsea have thrown nearly half a billion pounds each at the same problem in the last 5-7 years. The football authorities are, rightly, trying to bring in rules to curb the amount of influence that a rich owner can have on the present and future fortunes of a club. However in spite of this and everything that Arsenal have been working towards you think they should just give up and cosy up to a man with a lot of money.

You have not identified a particular problem or set of problems at Arsenal, but you have come up with a solution....
I can only assume that by saying Arsenal need to get Usminov on board you are implying that they don't have enough money to spend. However they have run a surplus over the last 10 years. Also Stan Kronke is pretty loaded. So that can't be right.

Perhaps you are saying that we just need to spend more money. We have money to spend, so you need Usminov to 'persuade' Wenger to buy more players. Or maybe you think that Wenger shouldn't be in charge of transfer policy and Usminov should?

Or you recognise that Arsenal have money but in order to compete with the best teams in Europe we need even more. We need money that we can't generate ourselves so a benefactor is the only way. That way we can spend spend spend. So financial fair play and sustainability is not something you are interested in.

Your solution is the football equivalent of quantative easing...

One of the best articles on this site for some time. 4th best is surely not good enough for those ticket prices.

@2 maybe you never go to a game so it doesn't matter to you..

excellent report Matt. this clearly states the boards ambitions and attitude.

I am sorry to learn that Lady Bracewell-Smith was totally right with her words when she stepped down.

I just would like to know what was her problem with David Dein? Could you make an interview with her?

This blog is a rather negative review of the AGM. For anyone who hasn't watched it, there's a video of the main presentations on the Arsenal site.

I share in the frustration that many of us gooners feel about the current situation but the Arsenal position has been clear for a number of years now: Arsenal have made the business decision to be self-sustaining. In other words, no matter the riches of Kroenke or Usmanov, the sort of cash splashed by Man City, Man Utd, and Chelsea (or, for that matter, Spurs and Liverpool) on transfer fees and player wages will not happen. The plan has been, and remains to be, to produce a team that can compete at the highest level but not to go into unsustainable debt to do so.

The other route would be to expect these rich owners to stop looking at this as a business, throw caution to the wind and spend tens or hundreds of millions of their own money without little chance of seeing a return. To expect this of them is unreasonable. After all, it's one thing to be spendthrift with your own money but to claim the right to be spendthrift with other people's money is quite another thing. The arab sheik who owns Man City and the russian mobster who owns Chelsea, bought the clubs as their personal playthings. The clubs are in a good looking position now but their long term prospects will always be a bit shaky, dependent as they are on the whims and fortunes of these individuals. Man Utd, on the strength of its established world wide brand and commercial success is better placed, but none in England have the stability and financial clout to stay at the top of the game as does Arsenal.

It might be hard to take, but a top 4 finish must be considered a success. And a team that can compete at the top in the Premiership and in the CL will always have a chance of winning something.

Once the commercial side improves, as it will over the next 4 or 5 years, then perhaps Arsenal could close the buying power gap on these other big spending clubs. Perhaps not. Either way, it remains important for fans to stick behind the team on the pitch.

It might not be as satisfying as the Double years or as glorious as the Invincibles but that, my friends, in today's market, is the reality. Stop whining and get behind the team.

Who gives a rat's arse about qualifying for the champs league??
All we do is get out the group stage and then get pumped by the first decent team we play.

Give me a run in FA-CC cup any day, at least we stand a realistic chance of winning it.

@Mouse149: good post.

Although much of the discontent coming from the Gooner ranks is understandable, the solution most often presented seems to be no solution at all. For them, the solution to the problem is solely to be found in the guise of a billionaire sugar daddy. Currently, due to the fact that Silent Sam appears not be that type of suitor, they are turning their lustful gaze toward the fat eastern oligarch.

@13,

The money men give a rats a***

Something has gone wrong at the club, and for fans it is frustrating as it often seems apparent we are being taken for a ride. When you are paying the highest ticket prices in European football (and therefore the world I would imagine) you are entitled to expect to see a team that is competetive at the highest level. Unfortunately Arsenal are not this season, hence the increasing number of empty seats at The Emirates.

People judgement is clouded by the clubs who have bought success (funny article from Chelsea today following the vote loss about buying their ground back - they claim that a 42000 capacity doesn't allow them to compete financially with Arsenal who have 60000!!! Taking the p**s or what???).
Man City are obscene and even Spurs and Liverpool have spent way beyond their means consistently over the last 5-10 years. Not only have we built a new ground, but we have also been financially sustainable - we can only hope that that level of common sense is rewarded in the future (particularly when the new financial rules come in. although I'm not holding my breath!).
Two big, big mistakes from Arsenal this season:
1. Starting the season with such a weak squad knowing that we had some massive games early on.
2. Putting up ticket prices without ensuring that the above didn't happen! Now paying the price by not selling out home games.

The squad now is not far off being able to compete - not for top 2 but probably third/fourth spot. And when you compare resources available that's not bad. If we could nick a pot as well that would be great - but isn't essential.
Let's not forget, all this criticism is aimed at a team that's won 7 of its last 8 games!

"Give me a run in FA-CC cup any day, at least we stand a realistic chance of winning it. "

whilst i sympathise with frustration

two things:

No1 remember birmingham? ( and where not the " big " players who want to " win
trophies " present ) one whom is so big he's now shipped of to City to help them win
the CC as a bit part player, by the way, we lost!

and

No2 we are at present on a " run " in the CC

"hence the increasing number of empty seats at The Emirates."

not half as empty as at the theatre of screams

Matt Slater spent all that time reporting on portsmouth and their financial mire but once again jumps on the bandwagon to say we need a benefactor cause financial reality is for mugs.
I hope he gets some financial reality when the BBC cut some costs.

This is yet another attempt by BBC to malign Arsenal. You have never said about any problems at arsenal but managed to slam it in every possible way.

You insulted everyone like Wenger by the famous short sighted man (I know u will say its a joke but all of us know that you guys want him out every time).

You invented a new term for coming fourth. (3rd best loser) I remember when Arsenal was about to come second last year you guys started calling him a loser. But if Liverpool wants to come fourth you will hail Daglish as the turnaround man. Why these double standards.

You want Usemanov a say in Arsenal but will that do. Will he be a good coach. noooooooooooooooo. He will just disagree with evberything at Arsenal. Do you mean to say that Roman Abravomich is a better owner than Stan. One who fires a coach in every 2 years for his obsession with CL. How will Usmanov be any different.

COME BACK AND i WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A PROPER DEBATE WITH YOU IN THE COMMENTS SECTION. LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN REALLY BACK YOUR WORDS....

What did you really expect from the meeting? Guy Fawkes night is a week away so no fireworks please!
With the club on a delicate situation on the field we don't want anyone stirring up the proverbial. AWMust be tired of mupps always asking when are we going to buy this player and why haven't we won anything for a few years.
The fact is Arsenal are the most successful English club for the last 10 years bar ManU of course and possibly Chelsea. Non stop Euro action including a narrow defeat in the Champions league final with A squad that cost half Chelskis ( and now one third of Manchester Etihad), financially in a very good place.
I'd say fourth is good, or are you just hoping someone like Usimov will plow hundreds of millions into the club? How boring!

7. At 07:57 28th Oct 2011, Wengerpore wrote:
And if in the long run, we stay competitive, play great, entertaining football, that surely is the true measure of a club - has been since Chapman's days, and remains so today.

==============================

What a truly refreshing attitude! It always irks me to hear of the crisis at Arsenal, having not won a trophy for, what, 6 years? Well so what. Consistently finishing in the top 4, and playing arguably the best football in the country (perhaps not at the moment, mind) should surely give some satisfaction to the fans.

Combine that with the nicest stadium in the country, and the sustainable model the club has that should ensure you don't implode in the near future, and I'd say Arsenal are in a pretty good place now.

Sure, it could be better, but its hardly a crisis! Try being the on the wrong side of administration!

Good old BBC - can't slag Arsenal off for on pitch performance since they've won 8 of the last 9. Let's have a go at them off the pitch instead.

I may have missed something here so I am prepared to be shot down as I am not an Arsenal fan; however, the blog seems to me more about an issue with leadership and transparency in my opinion. There is the on-going debate had by English football fans concerning Arsenal's business model and the pros and cons of such a thing; I think many Arsenal fans are quite proud (and rightly so in my opinion) with regards to how Wenger and the club conduct themselves in the transfer market and the level of investment made into developing young talent, but I don't think this is the primary issue. I thought this blog was more about the issues relating to sufficient leadership and the lack of communication regarding genuine questions such as; is the money received for Fabregas, Clichy and Nasri going to be reinvested and why were no replacements identified when it was clear they may be leaving?

I don't think this issue is Arsenal specific, but is one that many supporters across the country could empathise with. Club and supporter are becoming more and more disenfranchised. As an investor (albeit relatively small compared to people like Kroenke), the supporters will have questions and I think it is not unfair to expect reasonable answers by the people who control the direction of the football club. The more transparency with regards to decisions the better... at least then there is an understanding why a certain level of player investment hasn't been made, and whether you agree with it or not, at least there is a reason. The Swiss Ramble tries to address some of the financial questions at Arsenal at https://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Arsenal, but I am sure Arsenal supporters, as would any supporter, would rather hear the club communicate some of the reasons why decisions have been made rather than speculate or read elsewhere.

Finally, I don't think Wenger is a failure for claiming that fourth spot would be successful; I think this is generally the perception of many clubs in the Premier League and represents, in my view, what's wrong with top-flight football. For a few clubs, 4th represents success; for many, it's 17th. Somehow it just doesn't seem right.

https://thethoughtsofphil.wordpress.com/

Same old media; what is it all about.........totally negative comments about Arsene,then the players, now the board.

If you really cannot find anything good to say why don't you shut up and go away.

I for one am completely sick of the one sided views that constantly follow the club who play by far the most entertaining, creative and interesting football outside Spain.

not half as empty as at the theatre of screams

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Yes but there's thousands of empty seats at the Emirates at the START of the game, not just the end. Fans are voting with their feet and it's easy to see why. Paying more than anyone in Europe to watch Arsenal in the hope of finishing 4th and possibly a Carling Cup run. And even a lot of Gooners on other blogs have siad they're a Van Persie injury away from mid-table.

Interestingly as well, Van Persie is in the shop window and is suddenly in red-hot form. Playing for a move away perhaps?

25. At 09:56 28th okt. 2011, thoughtfulphil wrote:

In many respects I agree with you as most comments were about the reader's feelings of Arsenal's situation not about what was revealed in this particular report.

IMO it clearly stated that Arsenal have decent issues in leadership and communications to address for a long time and the board refused to do it again.

the AGM should have answered for the many questions regarding Arsenal's future plans but more about the failures of the board this summer (AW is member of the board!) and the AGM provided nothing which is a clear message.


the question is: why should I buy more merchandise or pay 6,5% more for the Emirates when as a supporter I am not respected in any way? in any parts of the world when I am not respected as a buyer I do not buy. (whatever are the heroics of a certain Mr. Wenger and RVP).

Now it is clear:
1. if I go to the Emirates I can see (mostly) a win against a lesser opponent with nothing of a very excellent play and the team looses against a better one - so why should I go?
2. I can buy an Arsenal T-shirt with the name of Wenger on it as (probably) he is the only team member not to be sold in the near future - so why should I buy an RVP t-shirt?

PS: to those who are dissatisfied with my comment: I do exactly what the Arsenal board does so well: not investing in the team and having a prudent, self-sustainable business modell... :-)

@ 25 you didn't miss anything, this is the same siege mentality AW tries to instill in his young players (a certain quote from Star Wars Ep. IV creeps up). It's everyone else trying to make Arsenal look bad. The board is awesome, so are the players and the manager (he never sees it, hence the short sight reference).

biased wenger-bashing, rabble-rousing nonsense. unsurprisingly, written by a non-supporter. you're just another tabloid style hack trying to peddle and sensationalise negative gossip, not much different from a trolling WUM on forum. your complete lack of objectivity is shown in your lack of even an attempt to explain the long-term business strategy of the board and it's connection to a changing regulatory environment (financial fair play). how is selling to an oligarch going to help arsenal become a sustainable company which is able to compete for success based only on it's own organic footballing profits? it's not. yet that is the trend which all clubs are going to have to move towards to, not what you're suggesting. you've got everything the wrong way round.

" Playing for a move away perhaps? "

others obviously hope so judging by the " gossip " columns

as i said my only worry is Arsenals ties with facebook anyone linked to such a site should be " certified " in this case: gazadis get ya chuffin coat!

your complete lack of objectivity is shown in your lack of even an attempt to explain the long-term business strategy of the board and it's connection to a changing regulatory environment (financial fair play). how is selling to an oligarch going to help arsenal become a sustainable company which is able to compete for success based only on it's own organic footballing profits?

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This is only IF the fair-play rules work as people think. Whilst a lot of clubs hope they do, I can't help but feel they'll be loopholes that will get exploited by clubs. I think at the moment both Barcelona and Real Madrid fail to meet the rules, do you really think Platini and Blatter will simply exclude them from the Champions League?

@31


i forgot to include twitter

In my 60 odd years of supporting Arsenal i can honestly say that i am totally confused as to what direction our club is headed. Arsene Wenger has been a fantastic Manager for Arsenal and after the great invincibles side he put together i have continued to believe that the young team he has been assembling over the past few years would come good. It appears the reliance on a team of young players maturing together has ended in failure so am i to believe we are creating a new young team or has the manager changed his mind. The call over these last years was for a few experienced players in certain key positions. This was largely ignored as the faith had to be kept with the youngsters, a policy that was highlighted by the lack of a credibal goalkeeper. It seems that we now have a dependable goalkeeper but what would our team of youngsters achieved with a Shay Given. This is just one position that we should and could of strengthened.

This year i witnessed the worst summer of non decision making resulting in the worst team we put out at Manchester United in all my years of supporting our club. The subsequent panic buying of players has done little to convince me that the board and the Manager are working as one. I am sure we could have used the money better if we had acted earlier and the team would have been ready for the United game.

The lack of investment in the team is a real snub to the unfortunate fans that pay the prices in the ground. How is it that we cannot buy the best players but our salary bill is amongst the highest in the league?

Sorry if ive gone on a bit but this is my first and probably last rant after years of being a faithful supporter.

The lack of investment in the team is a real snub to the unfortunate fans that pay the prices in the ground.

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Hence the number of empty seats recently. A lot of people won't pay the most expensive ticket prices in the whole of Europe to watch mediocre football but then if the board get a nice tidy bonus at the end of the year why would they care about fleecing the fans?

Sad to see but it just shows how hard Alex Fergusons job at Manchester United is..... It also shows just how well he has done in his quarter of a century to keep Manchester United at the top.......

This is not all Arsene Wengers fault but he is the one who went out and paid small amounts for footballers and expected huge rewards. It was he who replaced a £20mil Nasri and a £30mil fabregas with a £15mil 17 year old who no one has heard of ouitside of England........

The board have obviously not completely tied his arms behind his back when it comes to transfers otherwise he would not have had the money to spend on Chamberlain, Arteta and Mertersacker. I just believe he should have gone out and just bought two players and used the £15mil he spent on Chamberlain to bring in two better players than Mertersacker and Arteta. The name Cahill pops up......

He liek his team have not been clinical enough in their aims, Wenger will always be the greatest foreign import into the Premier League, but if Arsenal are to be competitive once again (and that does not mean challenging for 4th place) then maybe it is time for Arsene to step aside and take a role upstairs. This isn't just someone jumping to conclusion this is someone who is looking at what will be an 8th season without trophies, at a club like Arsenal it is unacceptable. Ferguson could not last at Old Trafford for 8 years without not winning anything. (AND HE IS THE GREATEST)

Welcome to the club matt! Yet another BBC Arsenal basher. But why change the habits of 80 odd years eh?

First up, I agree with those who are concerned about where Arsenal are (or not as the case may be) going. Wenger's obsession with 'winning with youth' has once again cost the club he's running dear. At the same time the board are not backing the manager with transfer money as they try and balance the books for the 'Emirates white elephant'.

However, Wenger bashing is a dangerous game. He IS a proud man and if Arsenal fans allow the press to sway them into baying for blood, they, not the fans, will be happy indeed. It's no use saying Arsenal have a siege mentality and then ignoring the fact that the football establishment does hate us. Wenger going would make their day, and who out there, that's available, is better?

At the same time, love it or loathe it, the boards prudence when all around are spending unsustainable amounts for short term success, is good business sense. Slagging the board for their lack of PR skills is hilarious. How many AGM's are 'dynamic' and 'inclusive'. Try asking Newcastle, Utd etc's fans and I'm sure they'll just laugh.

Lastly, having a dig at the recent transfers is not on. Mertsacker is a German international and one of the best CB's in Europe. The press have (surprise) empathised his speed, but his skill's elsewhere will make up for that. Someone said Cahill is better than Arteta? Are you kidding? Areta is a player I've admired for years and is already pulling the strings in midfield. As for the others, we'll see......... ............ but slagging them off before giving them a chance is sheer sour grapes.

12.At 08:45 28th Oct 2011, theoddgoal wrote:

You have summed up what I believe, try not winning a cup for 25 years? 50 years? Since when did the Arsenal fans become so materialistic that we need silverware to cement our support.
Arsenal could finish 17th and I would be proud of their acheivement for another year in the EPL.

"to watch mediocre football '


speaking from experience due to your humiliation in front of a semi-packed crowd at old shatford where not only were you resoundly thrashed any hopes u might have had going the season unbeaten and thus emulate Arsenal.

and to think, it was your 1st 11 as well.

@32 We all follow United: something's got to give. the league has always been one of haves and have nots, but it's not being run in a profit-driven way by some which makes it unfair for other competing clubs. where's the entertainment when an already stratified and predictable competition becomes nothing more than a marathon for a top three who can afford to make structural losses? it's unhealthy when most clubs can only progress by risking bankruptcy like leeds, plymouth and portsmouth. the path that's being headed down currently is in the direction of the la liga, where only two clubs really have a chance at the title and those without billionaires have trouble just staying afloat (despite the difference in tv distribution rights). it's an uneven playing field that's only getting more loaded in favour of a few teams.

An interesting blog although i'm not sure that it feels totally fair....a crisis at arsenal became a crisis because we got heavily beaten by Man Utd....to what extent does this not fit for them after their drubbing by City?

They, the Arsenal board, have been clear about running a team with tight financial management and we are clearly operating within those parameters. I am glad that Nasri, for example, has left because he clearly didnt want to play for us anymore and so it is better he left anyway...

I'm more interested in the idea of buying success...clearly having oodles of money available helps (eg Manchester City and currently Paris St Germain in the French ligue) in springboarding a team into the ball park when it comes to competing for titles.

However it is not the only factor that creates Premiership winning teams and Champions league titles. I will be interested to see how Manchester City cope with the tougher times in January and February when more psychological factors come into play, the ability to dig in, eeek out victories in the face of fatigue, adversity and bad weather....i think too much money and wages can breed a lack of hunger and a petulance that we've seen recently with Tevez as one example.

These qualities can't necessarily be bought but have to be cultivated. An environment with lots of money flying around isn't always conducive to the development of these characteristics.

Arsenal clearly have some work to do in this area as they could sometimes do with a bit more clinicalness in killing games that we have seen in the past from Manchester United for example.

However we, as a gooner, are heading in a better direction right now and I would continue to back Wenger's skills to develop ability and re-find their winning touch over chucking money around willy nilly.

I find it frustrating as all true Gooners do that we are not where we would like, ie. at or near the top spot, fighting for the title.

However, I have supported Arsenal through thick and thin - in the early years more thin! - and would prefer to continue supporting a team based on tradition and solid foundations that one funded by some individuals who have finished playing Football Manager 2010 and want to play around with the real thing. They will get bored at some stage and move away leaving behind no legacy!

Us Gooners need to get behind the team and one of the main things we can do is create the type of atmosphere at the Emirates as we used to have at Highbury and you currently see at teams like Stoke.

C'mon Gooners, support Arsene, the team and the club!

Can those of you backing the board and AW please answer this question

If you are saying we can not compete with the likes of city and Chelsea due to their bottomless pocket then why are we now struggling to keep up with the likes of spurs and Liverpool?

The self-sustain model i believe is the best way to run the club but, where do you draw the line that between being a football club and then a business?

Let me be clear about one thing as a season ticket holder ...We are not saying go spend like Chelsea or city. What we are upset about is that AW is not using the funds we have at is disposal that will in no way what so ever affect the club in balancing it's books.

It is well documented that we are cursed with injuries over the years, has it anything improve?...NO. January is always a good time to access the level and fitness of the team and decide weather to bring in one or two players. The argument that the market is over inflated is a complete nonsense because you can get players on loan like Manu did with henrik larrson the ended their three season with out a trophy. Real mardrid loaned Adebayor when Benzema was out long term. He got them lots of goals and they kept heels with barcerlona till the very end. If he is against it why has is now loaned Benayoun?

AW just can't stand the thought of spending money regardless the situation and for our club it's a double edge sword...

37. At 11:32 28th Oct 2011, Nelly wrote:

Arteta Pulling the Strings in midfield!!! Do me a favour.

Thanks HAHA Charadeyouare for having me in stitches. You have to be one of the most blinkered football fans ever (and that is saying something).
Unfortunately Arsenal are a team in decline. You can abuse United as much as you like but the truth of the matter is that they have been winning things for years and Arsenal have been nothing but 'also rans' . If Arsenal do not start reinvesting in players it really won't matter if the club is financially stable because you will be floating around mid table.
On the subject of Facebook.......commenting on here isn't a lot different. The difference is that on Facebook you tend to have these discussions with friends rather than strangers.

You really have made my morning at work so much more interesting with your slowly but surely more crazy comments! Thanks!

**Cahill absolutely not...he was overpriced in summer and also in last season's Jan transfer window. Or also some may suggest Cahill has now stopped performing for Bolton just because he wants a move away.


**(unless you mean Tim Cahill from Everton)

@ 41. "An interesting blog although i'm not sure that it feels totally fair....a crisis at arsenal became a crisis because we got heavily beaten by Man Utd....to what extent does this not fit for them after their drubbing by City?"

This is a joke right? To what exent can you compare Arsenal to Manchester United? You can't, because one is a genuine contender for every prize in cup football year after year, while the other is content to stay in the "top 4". If you had bothered to read David Bond's analysis on Arsenal finances you'd know there is more at hand than an 8-2 humiliation.

I don't think Arsenal fans (like me) expect some billionaire to come in and pay huge fees and wages but something competitive would be nice.

Two examples of cheapness from the board

1. Arteta had to take a pay cut to join Arsenal from Everton - One of the most cash strapped clubs in the PL, why is our wage structure so un-alluring to players?
2. £6m offered to Bolton for Cahill, thats not the market rate. Its a waste of time offering such pathetic money for a England International.

How Gazidis get paid so much but the wage structure and transfer fees are so pathertic??

I fail to understand how a team like Arsenal can't afford to have a net spend of say £20-30m per season which is all thats needed to get some half decent players through the door.

Excellent article - don't shoot the messenger.

Sorry, the only version I saw of the AGM was the censored version on the website. As a season ticket holder for many years, I think most fans support the manager but not the board.

The club rips off its supporters with its prices and then pleads poverty when it has to spend any money. If you were Van Persie would you stay at a club with such limited ambition?

Kronke's eyes light up for $$ not trophies - as for Hill-Wood, most supporters view of the dinosaur are unprintable. The board needs a major shake-up!

Matt - saw the video where Fynn says AW is wrong when he said we aim to finish 4th and we should aim higher. I have great respect for Fynn and have read his books he has written about Arsenal and he has lot of Insider Information on Arsenal. But surely his comment about aiming higher is without a second perspective.

Look at this way - AW promises in AGM that Arsenal will fight to finish in Top 2 and still the fans/shareholders or from media would have slated AW for being over ambitious and if we fail to achieve anyways there would be backlash. So what is wrong in sometimes being less demanding about the club for this season. We've already had a bad start..just about rebuilding and gaining some sort of confidence from the run of results in last 7-8 games or so... just have to be patient and take whatever comes our way for this season. 4th is the least we can hope for and if we get lucky FA Cup or Carling Cup trophy.

I'm not sure how desirable this Usmanov character can possibly be, really. Surely he is just another bloke who got rich quick when the wall came down - when 'they' were ready for the wall to come down; one of the chosen ones, a friend of the west, someone deigned fit to hold money out of general circulation so that the transition can be managed in his homeland and the general status quo can be maintained ie widespread poverty, living from hand to mouth, the masses compliant with the wishes of the sate - in other words the ideal backdrop for the industrial capitalism free market model to 'liberate' the Russian people. These are obviously moral and ethical objections, but surely there actually is a conflict of interest with his 'interest' in the once secret service backed Dinamo Moscow, an interest fronted by his Metalloinvest venture?


as an aside, I still find it amusing the blase way the 03/04 season is described as a season without defeats as well - weren't there about 10 defeats for Arsenal that season? Most top teams - including Arsenal during that period - wouldn't dream of losing out on cups to concentrate on drawing games that didn't matter in a season where the league was a stick-on already. Maybe that psychological 'weakness' could be identified as a root cause for the run of winless seasons that have followed?

Once again just want to clarify that finishing 4th is the aim set for this season looking at the current table. That is a fair enough assessment.

For the people saying we didn't replace Nasri, have they missed a certain Gervinho? done pretty well so far.

And as for the Arteta pay cut, so what? In any event he got an year longer on his contract so it evens out. I'm not sure that is really a stick used to beat Arsenal with, so what if they negotiated a good deal cause the player really wanted to play for them. I'm sure they won't be the only club to have done that.

#39 1-6 was indeed a dreadful result, albeit with 10 men. But it wasn't as bad as 8-2. That is all.

#40 I don't doubt that the new fair play rules are a step forward, no one wants the Premier League to become like the SPL or La Liga with two clubs having all the money and simply steam-rolling everyone else year upon year (or one club as La Liga has become). I just think that if any of the big clubs i.e AC Milan, Barca, Real Madrid, Inter, Bayern Munich, United etc were struggling to meet the new rules they'd be relaxed slightly to allow them into Europe. If teams like City, Chelsea, PSG etc are the only ones affected they won't care as much.

These new rules (if properly applied) are though simply going to keep the stutus quo as it is now. The 'big' clubs i've alreadt mentioned will still be able to spend more than anyone else due to their massive turnovers so will it really level the playing field?

#43

Good on you Matt. Nice to see a pundit coming out and defending his views from blinkered assaults, hope more of your colleagues do the same in future. I'm tired of fans on here (this time an Arsenal fan but you can normally substitue that for Utd/City/Liver/Chelsea fan) bleating on about the blogger being biased against his/her club.

Good article. Why are the tickets soooo expensive? Why were the board so reluctant to engage with fans at the meeting and ONLY take scripted questions? Open for debate....NOT!

There is a certain amount of soul searching going on for Arsenal fans at the moment, on the one hand we are proud of the business model that allows the club to make a profit and be self sustaining, this is really how football clubs, like all businesses, should be run, but on the other hand we also desperately want to see our club suceed, as all football fans do.

The stark reality today is that we cannot compete with the spending power of Man City, who bought one of our crown jewels in the summer and can afford to put him on the bench at OT and play him in the league cup and who can afford to write off Tevez, one of the best strikers in the game, Chelsea or Man Utd.

The board cannot admit that they are happy with a 4th place finish every year, as that would be suicide with the fans, but they are for the time being as we have hung our hat on Financial Fair Play levelling the field. All of football should hope this has the desired effect as all across Europe leagues are becoming less competitive, La Liga is a 2 horse race, PSG are buying Ligue 1, Man City could potentially walk away with the title for years to come, which is overall bad for the game

There is something about Arsenal that I just do not understand. This is a team that have a clear objective of finishing in the top 4 (well, 4th to be honest), and yet you see blog after blog about Arsenal. Why? In any other country this team would be an irrelevance. Who cares about teams that aim for 4th place year after year? 15 straight appeareances in the CL and 15 years without winning it! What a great record to fail 15 times on the trott. Maybe winning it never crossed their minds..

Could it be that Arsenal was the first club that turned its back on everything British that makes it so interesting to the media?

Great blog Matt!

52. At 12:12 28th okt. 2011, SS11 wrote:

"So what is wrong in sometimes being less demanding about the club for this season."

- I could accept anything from the board (member Wenger also) if they would say: sorry guys we made a mistake this summer or sorry, we have to rethink our methods with youngsters as they are too injury prone or we sell them (from Ashley Cole on) when/before they actually become winners. have they done it? NOT!


"We've already had a bad start..just about rebuilding and gaining some sort of confidence from the run of results in last 7-8 games or so... just have to be patient and take whatever comes our way for this season. 4th is the least we can hope for and if we get lucky FA Cup or Carling Cup trophy."

- so many maybes here what the board should do is PLANNING! have plan A, B, C. THAT IS THEIR JOB! but how could they do that when even WEnger have no plan B on the field or in the summer when two of the best midfielders are about to go?????????????????

50 Matt Slater

It's an interesting question to which I suppose the answer should be no, but is actually probably yes. Look at the last 7 seasons and Arsenal have clearly slipped form 2nd to 3rd behind Chelsea and United in the pecking order anyway, so this season a fight for 4th due to the sugar-daddy at City is about right.

If you compare the Goons situation with the furore surrounding the Glazer takeover you see that a fairly widely held view, in fanzine/andersred land at least, at the time was that United's ambition would inevitably be restated as mere qualification for the CL, with the owners focusing on keeping bums on seats with just enough transfer funds to sustain CL football whilst the asset-stripping commenced. As we have seen, this was so far off the mark it isn't even funny.

On a similar tack, the Mike Henson article on the BBC website this very day about Liverpool, in which he states that missed chances threaten their target of finishing in the top 4 is interesting. If a target finish of 4th place is good enough this season for the 2nd most successful team in English football, then it follows that 4th must be good enough for the 3rd most successful, I suppose.

In my opinion the last thing English football needs right now is for another top side to follow the path set by "the new reality of petro-dollar wealth in the PL". Arsenal have had a few problems with attracting and keeping top players - as have United, even if theirs are at a slightly higher level (due to their 75,000 capacity and all that follows) - but the PL needs more of them, and it needs them to continue to be successful in the face of the sugar-daddy distortion that threatens to wreck the entire competition.

I did have a point when I started that btw!

55.At 12:18 28th Oct 2011, Count Zero wrote:

And as for the Arteta pay cut, so what?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I appreciate its a small issue, but what if said "no thanks" like alot of players do to our uncompetitive wages - another player we lost due to being uncompetitive.

We lost Nasri (wages), Gallas (wages) and countless other players who are better than what we have because we don't pay the market rate for top players.

Van der Vaart cost £8m which is great but would he come to Arsenal? No we wouldn't pay him enough.

Has anyone ever heard the saying "success breeds success" we are losing quality and not being successful, a one-off splurge in the transfer market, one trophy and you never know it might help financially in the long run (full stadiums, players want to join us, best players don't want to leave.)

I doubt the sponsors are lining up to put their names alongside Arsenal (lack of success affects finances).

Speculate to accumulate - fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

So what is wrong in sometimes being less demanding about the club for this season. We've already had a bad start..just about rebuilding and gaining some sort of confidence from the run of results in last 7-8 games or so... just have to be patient and take whatever comes our way for this season.

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I think the problem is that Arsenal fans (the ones that actually go to games) are being charged the most expensive ticket prices in all of Europe for home games, before aways and Europe are even considered, only for the club to turn around and pretty much say 'we don't actually aim to win anymore'.

Another blog that tells us how bad Arsenal are why am I not surprised.

I find it funny to hear guys who keep calling for Arsene Wenger to go I would love to see what the difference would be, do you narrow minded people believe that if he goes all of a sudden we will sign Messi for 100m and offer huge contracts out to players? NO that will never happen and I wish it never does because that isn't football.

Way don't the BBC write a blog about how bad Man U are for shipping six goals against there biggest rivarls at home the same way they slated Arsenal when we lost 8-2 to United at Old Trafford with a reserve team.

Not at any point did Wenger say he wants to finish fourth and that is his only goal like this blogs tries to make us believe he probably said finishing fourth wouldn't be that bad but lets take a look at whats going on in football these days players getting paid stupid amounts of money clubs paying stupid amounts of money to buy players who arent even worth it most of the time and fans paying stupid amounts to go watch games and that isnt what football is about at all the quicker this stops the better look at the power players have these days we just have to look at the summer and Nasri, Modric, Tevez transfer sagas so why are these blogers and journalist after ruining the beustiful game and forcing clubs to spend more money instead of saying enough is enough. Do you ever think we will have a repeat of what Brian Clough did with Notts Forest.

I believe with Arsenal the board have totally lost it Hill Wood has lost it he got rid of David Dein who was the main man with Wenger at Arsenal any club today would die to have him on there board and Hill Wood in some stupid moment got rid of him not sure if Hill Wood feels bitterness towards Dein after selling his shares to him and then claiming that Dein had wasted his money in buying Arsenal shares for Dein then to wait over a decade and sell those same shares he bought for around 200K for round 65-75M and when Hill Wood sold his shares it means that another Hill Wood will not be Arsenal chairman as they have been since the start of time. Another thing that is baffling about the Dein issue is they got rid of him because he was the one that wanted Kronke to take over the club because after the move from Highbury and Roman buying Chelsea he felt that Arsenal would fall behind other clubs as we have done if we didnt sell the club to someone so Hill Wood and Co got rid of him and what they do waited 3-4 years and sold to the same person Dein wanted anyone else thinking Hill Wood doesn't have a clue. Years ago him and his mate owned some telecommunications business they sold that for round 20M that company is now Vodafone worth what Billions and when Pat Rice was a youth level he said he was awful and shouldnt be in the team and what did Pat Rice go on to become. Hence Hill Wood doesn't have a clue.

Answer to Arsenal problems get rid of Hill Wood and Gazidis, Keep Wenger and get Dein back and we will see the good old days again and the fans to get fully behind the team.

COME ON YOU GOONERS

I agree 100% with this article, I have been frustrated for the last 4 years with Arsenal management. It is not all about money but jugement. After the near disaster we had last year and not buying a CB during the summer was criminal!
What in the world Squilacci is still doing at Arsenal?!
When was the last time France produced a world class CB,Why do we have 2 in our club?
Chamakh a waste of space and of wages
Arshavin should be sold to a Russian club for 15-20 mil
This team badly needs a creative midfielder, Arteta is not the solution
It is not all about funds, it is about choices on who to buy and when to buy them

@SS11

"5.At 07:50 28th Oct 2011, SS11 wrote:
I guess BBC is trying to create doubts in minds of Arsenal fans ahead of Chelsea game.

We lost 8-2 to manchester 4-3 to blackburn but still fans were there right till the end. Unlike when manchester lost 6-1 to its rival club and fans left half way through in second half."

Not too sure about this one:

The match v. United was at Old Trafford and therefore the away fans cannot leave the ground until full time; and v. Blackburn, your fans obviously were going to stay as the match hung in the balence.

The manchester derby was as good as over as soon as JEvans got sent off.....

In response to Matts Questions:
1. Because the summer was a complete shambles and the club has gone backwards as a result. 2 of our best players left because they saw better chances to win titles elsewhere. This should rightly be a worry. Then there is the lack of coherent or specific message from the club. They say they want to be 'successful' but fail to define that, after AW stated we couldn't be considered a big club if we sold Nasri and Fabregas, we failed to spend the money on replacements of similar quality so we don't know what the direction of the club is.
2. Intelligent fans do see this, but worry that the rules won't be implemented properly or will be worked around - £400m 'campus' sponsorship for example
3. Arsenal have been close to winning trophies in the years since the last one, and the frustration is that almost always we have not won them due to poor defending/goalkeeping and this never seems to be addressed.

The match v. United was at Old Trafford and therefore the away fans cannot leave the ground until full time;

------------------------------------------------------------------

If that's the case then three quarters of them must have been stood in the concourse after the fifth and sixth went in with 25 minutes left. Hats off to the fans that did stay though.

"Way don't the BBC write a blog about how bad Man U are for shipping six goals against there biggest rivarls at home the same way they slated Arsenal when we lost 8-2 to United at Old Trafford with a reserve team. "


Err, they did, a couple actually.

The difference is most United fans went walkabout, or just held their hands up and said they were not good enough.

Arsenal fans bleated on about BBC and press bias and how its so unfair, and the ref ruined the game, injury's caught up with them and they would have won it if it were not for those pesky kids.

Very fair blog. Not quite sure why some fellow Gooners are complaining that the BBC are forever being negative on us. I don't feel that way.

At the end of the day, the shareholder who said that Hill-Wood is "out of touch", got it spot on. The whole point of these things is for a fair and open discussion. Hill-Wood only allowing pre-submitted questions and reading answers from a sheet is an absolute disgrace.

There is something wrong at the club and I think it starts from the top downwards. There needs to be a change. I don't claim to know what the change should be, but there is definitely something wrong and it needs to be looked at.

I think it was underestimated how big a loss it would be when David Dein left. We need the man back, that is obvious. He may not have a magic wand, but it seems to be far too much of a coincidence that our downward slump (slump maybe a bit of a strong word, as we continually end up in the Top 4) coincided with his departure.

I still believe in Arsene Wenger, as do the majority of the Arsenal fans (or at least the rational ones), and the man has done more for the game of football than, arguably, any modern day manager. He needs to stay, the people above him need to change.

Arsenal may 'hope' to finish fourth but they haven't got a chance of out-competing both Spurs and Liverpool.

Looking at the competitors for 6th and 7th I don't think they can achieve anything more than 8th.

The real worry for Arsenal fans is the future however - by dropping out of the Champion's League places and with shocking attendances there is big problems ahead.

"That's it for me. Thanks for reading."


Can I just say, that regardless of who you support, and no matter what your opinions on this matter are we should all be holding our hands and applauding Matt.

It does not matter if you agree with his views, but he has voiced them and also argued his corner on this blog, and I for one wish more of the BBC bloggers would do the same.

:
7. At 07:57 28th Oct 2011, Wengerpore wrote:
And if in the long run, we stay competitive, play great, entertaining football, that surely is the true measure of a club - has been since Chapman's days, and remains so today.

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That has to be the most ridiculous statement I've seen on here. All of a sudden history has changed. It was Wenger who introduced the style of play for which Arsenal are now known today. Some obviously cannot remember Bertie Mee and Don Howes teams or even George Graham's team. Speaking of Chapman, way back in the thirties Arsenal were the Man Utd of today, yes they bought players to make a great team.

Personally I rate Wenger highly and the Arsenal way that it is today, I also respect what they are trying to do. The problem is, the world has changed, players no longer want a fantastic wage playing for an institution like Arsenal with all it's history. Recently they have lost extremely well paid players who have shown that the club does not have the same meaning, as it has for the fans.

I applaud Arsenal for sticking to their guns but the days of Arsenal regularly winning trophies for them are past and that does make me sad.

We all knew that the move to the Emirates would have a significant short-term effect on the club's ability to compete in the transfer market, and hence trophies. That said, Arsenal have done remarkably well to have remained in European competition and challenging for titles during this period.

Who can say what might have happened if it wasn't for Man City "winning the lottery" or if we had avoided a few key injuries at crucial periods in the season?

That said, the latest financial results show that the debt from the stadium build should no longer be an issue and it is getting to the stage where we as fans should be expecting to see some significant investment in the team. For the past 3 - 4 seasons Arsenal have made a profit in the transfer market. Good for the business, not so good for the club. I don't expect or want a spending spree of Chelsea or Man City proportions, but the purchase of one marquee (£25m+) player per year over and above the normal transfer business would go a long way towards demonstrating the board's committment to results on the pitch

Intersting article. Confirms what I've thought for ages - that Hill-Wood is clueless.

Remember how close we were to beating Barca, our best ever performance.
___________________________________________

If I remeber correctly Arsenal had no attempt on or off goal during that match, and were confined to their own half for over 75% of the match.. That was Arsenal's best ever performance! Wow.

"83. At 13:30 28th Oct 2011, A wet windy night in Stoke wrote:
Remember how close we were to beating Barca, our best ever performance.
___________________________________________

If I remeber correctly Arsenal had no attempt on or off goal during that match, and were confined to their own half for over 75% of the match.. That was Arsenal's best ever performance! Wow."

I think the point being made here is that we are the only club that even came close to knocking Barca out last year. When you look at the one sided final, I think you'd agree that to lose by the odd goal as a result of being (somewhat controversially) down to 10 men is a pretty impressive statistic.

@83

Yup, that's how I recall it too - if there was ever an example of being owned that was it, but Wenger always has been selective with his long and short term mermory.

I don't know why the fans stick by Wenger - he has lost the plot. They need a manager like Sam Allardyce to make the best of what's left of the squad.

I think people should stop slating Matt off for writing this article. I know it's not his best article and I have in the past enjoyed the articles he has written about Arsenal. He is far from Arsenal bashing. A lot of other BBC pundits and writers do slam the club and Matt should acknowledge that, as is the same with a lot of the written press.

The Arsenal board have a lot of problems to deal with. As Matt has said the board is over 70 and it's about time that they change it. We need more drive within the club. Everyone has got so stayed that there is no new life coming through. Why s the clubs commercial ventures so far behind other clubs? Why is their ticketing system so 3rd rate that even buying a theatre ticket is easier. Why is their marketing department so poor that they don't pick up on and promote things that are happening in the world with fans of the clubs.

I understand the board not wanting to splash the cash and keep a sustainable model but you also have to make some financial looses in some years for investing. Maybe they don't want to over spend in the transfer market and new wages but it's reported that Bendtner is on about £52k a week!! Surely if that is true what are or were the club thinking about payng someone over the odds who is at best a bench warmer for us. No wonder he couldn't get transfered as no one else would pay that kind of wage for him.

Also I don't think Wenger is a board member but is invited to sit in on board meetings.

As for the muppet that said "Could it be that Arsenal was the first club that turned its back on everything British that makes it so interesting to the media?". You have just proved how ignorant of the game and club you are. Chelsea were the 1st team to play a completely foreign side and not Arsenal. We couldn't afford overrated English players.

Hopefully the FFP will come in and the likes of Man City will not be allowed to get around it with this supposed £400million deal with Eithad.

I will still support the club and go to as many matches as I can afford as a red member. The stadium might not be full now but at least there are true supporters there now getting behind the team.

"85. At 13:38 28th Oct 2011, dogeared wrote:
@83

Yup, that's how I recall it too - if there was ever an example of being owned that was it, but Wenger always has been selective with his long and short term mermory.

I don't know why the fans stick by Wenger - he has lost the plot. They need a manager like Sam Allardyce to make the best of what's left of the squad."

Allardyce??? I can only assume that you're a Spurs supporter!

Wenger's problem is his openess, his friendly disposition that invites debate and opinion, that is his problem because no one else can attempt to discuss all footballing matters with a friendly funny open manner in the highest intellectual way, if you tie this in with consumer credit card johnnie fan's that are so used to having their cake and eating it and have no real grasp of the economics of the transfer market and it's worth then you have an explosive concoction of overbearing spoilt brats screaming soft excrement, that is not conclusive to friendly customer relations, so do like the other clubs do, don't enter into discussion with the consumerist credit card johnnies that accept debt is a way of life.

Sir Alex Ferguson retires or he becomes ill, Man Utd finish 6th one year then 5th the next, the Banks will sell Rooney and that monstrous debt becomes truely ugly !

This is one of the most pointless blogs I have ever read on the increasingly dumbing-down BBC. So, are you going to blog on every football club's AGM? If your rationale for this one is the fans are interested then why not strip bare the AGMs of the remaining 89 or however many clubs? You know, there are fans out there who support clubs other than Arsenal. Please stop this Arsenal witch hunt. It is too easy and makes for lazy journalism.

@83. Again you are completely incompetent. He was talking about the home game in which we beat them 2-1 and not the away game. Don't forget we also had a player sent off for kicking the ball away less than half a second after the whistle which everyone agrees was a joke.

"@83. Again you are completely incompetent. He was talking about the home game in which we beat them 2-1 and not the away game. Don't forget we also had a player sent off for kicking the ball away less than half a second after the whistle which everyone agrees was a joke."


- everyone + Arsenal fans

63.At 12:35 28th Oct 2011, TheTrawler wrote:

"I did have a point when I started that btw!"

Brilliant! That gave me a good laugh.

68.At 12:47 28th Oct 2011, TheProfessorLivesOn wrote:
@88.At 13:43 28th Oct 2011, goonergetit wrote:

Can I suggest you try a full stop or two (or do you actually talk like that)?

Spending big money for Man City to buy the player two years later, then having developed the player his agent tells him where the grass is greener, pay structures, player power and the economics of playing for fourth spot, if Wenger splashes then Roman Abromavich spends a little bit more, then Mancini can usurp the whole process by purchasing three world class players on a whim and stick them in the reserves, because he can, as he's just raped the Gunners with a cheque book, who can afford the loss and who can not ?

Absolutely spot on blog. The idea that it is overly negative or "arsenal bashing" is absurd, it is simply a reality. The current board have led us nowhere but backwards the last few years. We need a serious change

@83, the game being referred to was clearly the home leg which was absolutely our best game for a long long time

Thanks for your comments and support as one of the older Gooners around.

I think us older supporters remeber when it felt like the entire club/supporters were pulling in the same direction. The main difference now is that our owners are purely worried about their investment and will only worry when the club stops increasing its profit year on year. Its the difference between and investment (Arsenal shareholders) versus rich man's plaything (City, Chelsea etc) and i'm not sure which one i would vote for.

If you have the information can you let me know why it is that our salary bill is right up there with the top clubs, i know our top player earns 70K per week but most of the other clubs have players earning substantially more.

Concerned but always a gooner.

Can I just say thankyou Matt Slater. It's a breath of fresh air to see a proper blog on this website from a report who is actually using his position to speak from an informed position on a subject that he clearly has an interest in, namely the rise of the football sugar-daddy.

It makes such a nice change from the usual dross we get, where a reporter just C&P's a load of hackneyed tabloid nonsense, presents it in a tired old soap opera/ talksport style of soundbites and cliches, and then has absolutely nothing of note to back it up with.

I think the biggest problem most people have with the whole "wait for FFP to kick in" concept is that we know that it will make no difference whatsoever. there are a number of big clubs who look to have no chance of complying with the regulations as they stand but UEFA will not punish them for fear of opening the door to a breakaway European league.

On the point of the FFP rules, isn't the result of failing them that you aren't allowed to compete in Europe? If so, that doesn't exactly stop teams like City, Chelsea, PSG, Barca and Real (although they're very much second in Spain) dominating domestically through their owners wallets does it? Or am I getting it wrong?