Glazers are going nowhere

With all the debt that has been piled onto Utd, the fact remains that they are still a very successful club on and off the pitch. I don't see why Utd fans are skeptical about the Glaziers.... I would worry if a repeat of Liverpool were to occur... Debt, inaction on and off the pitch.

Only once we have the financial clout in the transfer market to sign truly world class players will I be convinced.

Although people don't necessarily like him, Ferguson's abilities as a manager are unquestionable. United's trophy cabinet speaks for itself. But we cannoit keep relying on 'old hands and up-and-coming youngsters'.

Let's see a couple of really fantastic players signed and I will put my green and gold scarf away.

Oh and it's Glazer, #1, not 'Glazier'

The Glazer family seem to have kept Manchester United on a successful run on the pitch and increased revenue off the pitch, so what is of any concern? For me, the success of Manchester United was already firmly established and although they may have exploited that well commercially, I do feel that Old Trafford is a house built on the foundations of Sir Alex Ferguson.
My concern for United would be that rumours and perception play a massive role in the financial world. If they cannot keep up with Manchester City and maintain success in the Champions League (akin to last season's showing), the debts that look serviceable at the moment could suddenly become a burden. When Sir Alex leaves, it could all come tumbling down. Leeds were fine until they sold Rio Ferdinand and then the floodgates opened. It only takes one lender within that debt to demand repayment and Manchester United could come down like a pack of cards.
I really wouldn't like to see that happen but I think it could. How much have the Glazers taken out personally?

@1

Thats a good point that fans should only really see the club going forward of they manage to spend on a WC or top class player. I would have thought Snieder would have been spoken about more this time around.

I cant see Man going away in the near future and it seems a very well run club, fans and media may highlight the debts that Man U have, but that is the calculated business end and they are still a very very strong club but also a very strong international brand.

Liverpool fans need to wait a bit longer before Man U come crashing down to their level.

I would put Man U as favourites for the title next year.

Man City still unproven
Arsenal not good enough
Chelsea are still in array
Tottenham have a tested failed manager
Liverpool are now just a decent prem team

I think this move is Not sure of the negativity. Before the Glazers United signed Rio for £30million and the summer of 1998 when we spent big on Stam, Yorke, Blomqvist. We also signed Veron and Ruud for a big combined sum. But sicne they have taken over the money has not stopped???

Since he took over in 2003-05 gradually. We have signed Wazza for £30million. We signed Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves for a big combined total and we have also signed Young, De Gea, Jones for a big combined total??

United will always have the money there to be the best. But Ferguson will not go out and spend stupid money on just anyone, they have to be special. And it is not the transdfer fee that United can not compete with it is the fact that when you have private money that can just get thrown at a situation the wages can be anything City want them to be!!

United is a business that will be around long after Sheik Mansour and Abramovich get bored of their toys. We do not need just one man to make our club successful.

United are still the biggest club in England by far!!

From the outside it looks like United are going backwards very quickly. They can't even keep hold of their best young players. Pogba and Morrison over the last 2 years have been described as the best young players at United since Beckham and Scholes and both wanted out. When United bring back players like Scholes and still play giggs and Carrick and Ji Sung Park, the youngsters are obviously just gonna say "I'm a good player get me out of here" I also believe there are problems with Ezekiel Fryers.

You couple this with the signings they have made like the kid from Crewe and Kagawa or whatever he's called (who is nothing more than an "in" to the Japanese market!) then you see United going backwards on the football field. There is absolutely no way United will get as many points as they did last season. They over performed and I doubt they will be as lucky in garnering points they don't deserve this coming season. I'd be surprised if United finished in the Top 4. Its looking very grim indeed.

@4??

How are Man City - still unproven??

I think when you have won the F.A Cup and League in consecutive seasons you become proven champions!!

Man City will be start as favourites for the title no doubt. But I still think United can win the title and it will be the case of whoever finishes above United will win the title!!!

If United can remove the debt and free up some transfer funds it will be good news. The Glazers have done a fantastic job at increasing revenue streams off the pitch, but they depend upon United's success on it. Hopefully they will release the shares successfully and not damage the United brand as Facebook succeeded to do in its IPO.

I am from the Nigel Clough era of thinking. Just because a club wins one FA cup and a league title doesn't to me mean they are established.

They need to do alot more over the course of another 5 years for me to recognised as a top club pushing for honours year in year out.

With the money they have and a young squad with i would expect some interesting signings in the future they are in good standing.

Like last year they we the favourties to win the Champions League but didnt even get out the group.

How farcical is that, have the bookies and the fans never heard of clubs like Bracelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, AC Milan ect....

Give them a few more years then lets see them as a top club, right now they are a good looking up and coming force thats it imo

Since the Glazers arrived, United have SOLD more than they BOUGHT ... plus all the millions bled from the Club to service Glazers debts.

When I had a Season Ticket at Old Trafford, I knew Shareholders ( and that included me! ) would get a small dividend, but the vast majority would be invested in the team.

However, I will not allow MY money to pay the GLAZER'S debts.

Over the years, I have put much more money into the Club than the Glazers have.... which is not difficult as they have only taken money OUT.

I gave up my Season Ticket and now go and get my footie-fix watching FC United of Manchester..... and it feels better !

@swintondude

Are you crazy?? Outside of the top 4...scratch the question are you crazy, you must be crazy, that is a ludicrous statement!!

Fair enough we have lost two of the best youngsters we have had in recent times but i think that was more of a case of them getting to big for thier boots too soon in thier careers! Look what has happened to Morrison since he went to West Ham...not alot!! The same will happen to Pogba at Juve...i dont understand how they or thier agents thought they would be good moves! Pogba is 19 or 20 and he has had 7 clubs, to me that says alot about his attitude. Nick Powell (from Crewe) is probably close to being on a par with Pogba.

As for Kagawa being an "in" to the Japanese market, perhaps you should take abit of time to do your research on the player, do you watch any Bundesliga?? Have you seen him play? He is a top player, very versatile, he is in the shortlist to go in to the FIFA team of the year, cant be that bad??

Bringing Scholes out of retirement might have seemed like a backward step (i thought it was myself), but it turned out to be a masterstroke, he was one of our best players over the 2nd half of the season and showed what an impact he can still have on games.

Club in reverse...dont be silly!!

#4 - City still unproven...okay then!

@ swintondude

Have you seen Kagawa actually play?
I think you might be eating your words soon enough.

#4 - City are already favourites for next season. Utd will fall short again including City taking more points in the 2 manchester derbies. You head it here first.

the glazers have to be removed before united go down the same path as glasgow rangers. it is about time the manager told it like it is!! he has no money to compete with citeh and chelski. we are on the same level as villa and newcastle. everyone needs to wake up!!!

shadow warrior @9

I am from the Nigel Clough era of thinking. Just because a club wins one FA cup and a league title doesn't to me mean they are established.
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Surely you mean Brian Clough, anyway it doesn't matter.

I go way back beyond Cloughie's days but things have changed dramatically including the perception of what is a big club or established club and so on.

This can be proven by the fact that many teams who did genuinely have a chance of winning the title, can no longer do so without the assistance of an enormous amount of money. Many of yesteryears big fish have simply faded into the background, just to make up the numbers.

In todays language, the moment City were bought they became a massive club capable of competing worldwide and long term. People may not like it that way but that is the way it is.

6.
At 13:00 4th Jul 2012, swintondude wrote:
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i have been a united fan for a very long time, every year we have to listen to the same thing. no football club stays on top forever, but who other than united have won the title in the past 6 years? chelsea and city, and what do both those clubs have in common?

@10 At last some degree of sense! The Glazers are nothing but bad for United and there is no argument against that fact. Commercial revenue was increasing rapidly before they came along, which is why they wanted the club, not increasing because of them and they do not deserve the credit for it. £500m out of the club? Net spend between 09-11 = -£28m!! (only figures I have to hand) and £244m interest paid in that time, so please carry on telling us how great the Glazers have done!

Not sure if I could ever abandon the club as some have done, but people need to be aware of the damage being done by the Glazers, and quit with the 'they're doing a good job' rubbish. The only reason we are anywhere near the top of the PL is purely down to Fergie!

I am glad we're not throwing silly money around on average players like some, but we do need more investment.

Final point on Kagawa @6, you've not seen him play much have you? No doubt marketing was taken into account, but the lad is a quality player, Fergie wouldn't allow anything else!

@12

Do you honestly think that Man City proven with one cup and title.

I think Blackburn have done the same.....

Anyway your a Manc, so will let you off
Great Clubs with th worst fans

@6

To be honest all the hype about Pogba and Morrison was over the top, at the ages of 18 & 19 most players are as good as they were meant to be would of given more play time in meaningful matches. I think the main problem with these two is their agents asking too much money. United won't pay it because they are unproven talent. Ravel was already on £3500 a month, can't see how a 18 year old could not live with that whilst trying to push for the first team. Fryer sadly looks like he is in the same position.

I am still not happy with the investment of players at United, the 80 million from Ronaldo has never been spent. De Gea, Young, Jones combined was near 60 million which is pretty ridiculous. United seem to have this culture of buying 'good' players at 15-20 million rather than just pushing the boat out and doubling the money to get one world class player, which is needed now in midfield. But saying this buying big doesn't always work. Real Madrid are proven evidence of this over the last 10 years, the Galaticos over 6 years won one La Liga and champions league. Even Barcelona have spent silly money on Ibrahimovic and the Ukrainian defender (can't spell his name). Need I mention Torres, Carroll and Downing.

The Glazers have done a good job bringing in revenue but ultimately pushing the brand into the Asian market was being done before they arrived and it just so happened the football boom in Asia coincided with their takeover. I just think if they did not takeover, even if they have improved revenue, that the profits would be higher and that fans would not be paying so much for everything. (Which is part of the reason the revenue is higher anyway, they put prices up).

When you look to the 2008 final with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo upfront. If this partnership had been kept together the kind of fear it would put in other teams defences. And what is lacking at the moment is entertaining football, something our current crop of players have not got

@ #6

Spending a few million on the Crewe wonder boy isn't a bad thing, and you clearly haven't seen Kagawa play if you think he is merely an 'in' to the Japanese market.

As a Liverpool fan, I am envious of the Kagawa signing as he is a brilliant player, still young and an absolute bargain at 12m.

I hate United as much as the next, but you can't use two good signings to show that they're going backwards.

I think the best way to describe Man City is a Chav who won the lottery, come back in 5 years then lets see if your a big club, if you are then fair play, but now your not your just a club who spent a billion to win 2 things so far

@19 - blackburn and man city situations vastly different!

philthy @13

Have you seen Kagawa actually play?
I think you might be eating your words soon enough.
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Yes I have and i wonder if you will eat your words when you find out he is not the second coming.

He is a very good player but not exceptional and he is unproven against the level he will compete against. He is a bit like Nasri at times, tricky but not brilliant.

The suprise for me, is why Utd keep on buying the same type of player when it is clear they need to reinforce other areas.

OH! one major fact for Shinji, be prepared for a lot of 'kissing the badge' bull. Had a friend tell me about it, who watched him every week and blow me the first time i watched him, the badge was kissed several times.

Must have meant so much to him, that he left the club as quick as he could.

10.
At 13:13 4th Jul 2012, Manc wrote:
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good for you, stand up for what you believe in. when these debts are cleared and united are back to being able to spend 30m on a player you can continue to go to your FC United matches. when your club is struggling you dont turn coat!

those lot cant ever be called united fans again. new owners come in and basically have 5 years of success no united fan have ever seen while making the club more money, the media like to highlight certain aspects of united, usually the bad points, but rarley point out the fact that united have in 6 seasons lost the title twice, once by one point and once on goal difference, i dont know about any one else but i dont think spending hundreds of millions should only equate to 1 point! i prefer football to be played on the pitch, the admin side to it should be kept behind closed doors.

@22 - come back in 5 years then lets see if your a big club. Man city win more league titles in the 5 year period than Utd. Next? [I wouldn't be surprised if Utd don't win a league title for 5 years].

21.
At 13:47 4th Jul 2012, jordiroz wrote:

@ #6

Spending a few million on the Crewe wonder boy isn't a bad thing, and you clearly haven't seen Kagawa play if you think he is merely an 'in' to the Japanese market.

As a Liverpool fan, I am envious of the Kagawa signing as he is a brilliant player, still young and an absolute bargain at 12m.

I hate United as much as the next, but you can't use two good signings to show that they're going backwards.
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refreshing to hear someone that doesnt have much love for a team but is willing to give credit where credit is due.

5 years is a long time in football, just look at Chelsea, a big club now and contenders each year, but also not really a threat at top level, and who is to say that another club will not be bught out by a rcher person.

If only i could forsee the next 5 years....

Come back later mate your still on honney moon period after 4 years and spending countless fortunes you havent done much, Chelsea had a much better start than you and spent less

6 classic bertie bitterness.

I'm niether a Man U or Man City fan but actions over the last couple of yrs speak volumes.
The shiek has pumped in 100's of millions of £s and they have bought quality players and have started to collect a few trophies along the way.
The Glazers have took out 100's of millions of £s and have bought mediocre players and are reeping the benefits of becoming a mediocre side reliant on unproven quality..

The team i follow where a founding member of the premiership and all it's hype and soon enough we saw it was becoming all about how much you could throw away in monetery terms at players so as a club we decided to jump out of the premiership and we have so far managed to stick to our guns and refuse to even join the battle for premiership stardom and instead stick to the lower echelons of league 1...

26.
At 13:52 4th Jul 2012, dinnaebetakenpicsoffoodyaradge wrote:

@22 - come back in 5 years then lets see if your a big club. Man city win more league titles in the 5 year period than Utd. Next? [I wouldn't be surprised if Utd don't win a league title for 5 years].
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all it took for city to compete with united was £582,000,000, all we need is vidic back. had he not been injured last season city would only have an fa cup after spending all that money. yes still unproven as a club, it will take years for city to prove themselves.

24 Londoner that's a very poor post I'm afraid. kagawa is clearly a superb footballer. I only wish United could sign Honda to play alongside him as well.

as for the chat about pogba and morrison, anyone who knows what they're on about would be well aware of their stories. citing them as examples of youngsters not wanting to be at United is laughable. pity they didn't get more game time last season, but being at United is as much about your character as your ability, especially at their age.

The difference between the Glazers and the owners of Chelsea and Man. City is that the last two are fabulously wealthy, the Man. City owner particularly.

At Chelsea and Man. City the owners are indulging in a hobby and are prepared for losses, If they make a profit fine, but the support will continue.

The Glazers, while wealthy by normal standards, are not rich enough to subsidise Man. Utd. Nor do they intend to, they intend to make a profit, which few manage, even with a successful team. So if they are offered enough by a hotel chain who want to build the biggest hotel in the world on the United pitch they will sell it.

30.
At 14:04 4th Jul 2012, jutty128 wrote:

I'm niether a Man U or Man City fan but actions over the last couple of yrs speak volumes.
The shiek has pumped in 100's of millions of £s and they have bought quality players and have started to collect a few trophies along the way.
The Glazers have took out 100's of millions of £s and have somehow managed to do sooooo much better

At least the Glazers are capable businessmen and left the day-to-day running of (what is still) a successful club well alone. There's still a lot of outstanding debt but the club is managing to service it without it affecting the investment in playing staff too much. It could have been a helluva lot worse!

I'd like them to cash their chips and go as much as the next man but they must be eyeing a much bigger windfall later down the line.

sorry i wasnt measnt to post comment 34, hadnt finsihed. the point i was making is we all believe money is the trick to winning, just look at united, they spent more last season than in any of the previous 4 but last season was there least successful in a long while!

Man City and Chelsea apart for obvious reasons, Arsenal will probably be the only club capable of being mentioned in the upper tier of English football, that will become debt free in the next decade.

But is debt really a problem as long as it can be serviced?

It is soley dependent on how many clubs have the debt and the type of debt they have.

Lets put a fair assesment on City and on winning 1 title and 1 FA cup.

Firstly the FA anyone can win it, even a team like Millwall got to the Final.

Last year winning the Prem

Hmm

Arsenal did not prepare well enough and had a very poor start
Chelsea was the worst they have been for years
Liverpool off the radar
Tottenham could have done it but went sidewards for a while
Man U didnt play to well

Man City won it when t he other teams had perhaps one their worst seasons.

Ok so City are proven that if the other clubs wont perform at their top level then City after spending obscene amounts of money can win it with a goal in the dying seconds against a very poor team with 10 men.

I'm confused - if a group bought all the A class shares they still wouldn't have any say about the control of the club because the Glazers have all the B class shares that out vote the A class. So why would you spend £1b+ for some worthless bits of paper?

No. 33.

The difference is also the clubs, Man City and Chelsea need massive investment to compete at their current level and, when purchased, they were nowhere near it. United are a solvent, well-run business that turns the biggest operating profit in football. The Glazers could leave and United would be better for it. If the Chelsea or City owners left then a downward spiral would begin.

As it is, they are all in for the log-haul (or so it seems). United's strategy should be to continue doing what it's been doing for the last 20 years off the field, try to remain competitive on the field and weather the storm.

@34 king red

if you are going to alter my post or copy & paste parts of it at least leave in the part about the team i do support.

Tim @35

The Glazers are shoestring business men, they juggle constantly, their business finances in the states are the same as at UTD, constant debt but as long as they are successful running concerns, they will always grow a business.

No 39.

I think the A and B class shares determine voting rights, not proportion of ownership and/or dividend too.

No. 42

United turned over 100m operating profit in last years accounts, the Glazers are savvy enough to leave that well alone.

Debt is a part of business and the vast majority of growing businesses are carrying (or servicing) at least some. All business men are continuosly juggling their finances too. I don't like the Glazers but they are, at least, better at it than most.

Trawler

I never said he was not a good player.

What i said was he is not the second coming. To me a second coming is the Ronaldo class and with Ronnie it could be seen from a very early age.

Having watched him several times, his trickery does remind me of Nasri [when Nasri is on song] the one thing I will add, he appears more consistent than Nasri, who I think is a moody type over the course of a season.

I would say at around 12 mill in todays terms he's a good punt for UTD but he is definitely not going to transform the team, way above what it already is.

I hope he does well because we need to see his type but I also think Utd need a different type of player at the moment.

Couple of points first...

Don't write Kagawa off as just an attempt to leverage their profile in the Far East. The guy's just come off the back of a fantastic season in the Bundesliga where he helped Dortmund defend their title, and added their cup to a Double Winning season. He's no mug, even though he hasn't experienced the joys of a trip to Wigan in January... yet.

You also can't compare tech-stock nervousness with the prospects for Manure's IPO. Tech people are notoriously fickle. Anybody remember when MySpace was set to dominate the world? Bought for $800 million in 2005, sold for $35 million only six years later. There will always be a large number of private individuals who want a piece of the club, whatever the climate amongst corporate in vestors might be. Wether there's enough cash to help bail out the Glazers' in the pockets of those small investors/fans is another question, and hence the minimum initial target.

Having said all that, however, there still seems to be the idea floating about that while Ferguson remains at the helm, nothing can go wrong in the long term. Certainly he retains that intimidating aura that's worth a two goal head-start against some teams, but that pool of managers and officials willing to buy into the cult seems to be shrinking. His two league performances against Mancini, both at home where he failed to marshal his troops into shutting up shop and simply taking the defeat 0-2 or 1-3, and instead watched them throw themselves wrecklessly forward and conceed six goals in all... or the away fixture where he got his tactics and selection wrong, hoping to 'just do enough' and take away the point that would have all but handed him another title, and then compounded it with his theatrics on the touchline in what might have appeared, a decade ago, to have been classic Fergie telling it like it is, but only serving to make him look a rattled, bad tempered, septuagenarian lacking ideas.

@38

Every year you can point at the failings of the contenders but quite simply the team who wins the premier league, deserves it and has earned it (as much as it pains me to say as a United fan).
City are a proven team, there's no argument about that, and they will be the team to beat next year. How they handle that pressure may then give us a good assessment about their longevity.


But getting onto the actual topic of this article, I am glad to see the Glazers taking steps to secure an improved financial future. Despite being riddled with debt, you cannot argue against the success of the past 5 years (last season aside!). If they'd have walked away with the pressures of the green and yellow brigade then we'd be in all sorts of trouble by now.

Trawler

Unfortunately, the Pogba and Morrison issues are a sign of the times, players that have yet to truly make their mark are suddenly elevated beyond reason. What is even worse, they are surely being advised and one would have to question the advice that they have been given and for the reasons why it has been given.

30 isn't there a contradiction in what you say about the whole money thing in the PL and your claim that United now, according to you, by inferior players because they haven't got money for top ones?

the problem in England is that the transfer market is hyped to the enth degree and is almost as big a story as the football. people are actually trying to wind Reds up on the basis that United 'only' spent £12m on Kagawa? that sums up modern football fans pretty well really. He was compared up the page with Nasri, but United were slated last summer for being gazumped for Nasri fgs - and he cost reportedly £25m.

Too many of the comments here underscore why this whole nation is in debt!! People here bandy about phrases like "service the debt" as though that were the be-all-and-end-all of owing £423m. As long as you can service the debt what's the problem? As long as the club is "successful on the pitch", as long as the club can compete and sign the best players in the world, as long as the earthquakes and tornados don't strike, so states the document supporting the share issue! People are re-assured because there is this cast-iron certainty that sports institutions like United cannot cease to exist whatever happens. People will point to the Rangers situation at the moment as a cautious reminder that these things are not always forever; though ironically Rangers' ability to reinvent itself almost straight away kinda does support the view that they might be, mad as that prospect actually is. But calamity most certainly does exist with or without the Newton Heath scarves adorning the place. There are a variety of things that could be said about the Glazers but the absolute certainty is that their financial acumen is about to be sorely tested. The belief in the commercial supremacy of United's name, the belief in continuing to win major trophies to prop up that name/reputation, the belief in a successor to Ferguson who will carry on the job seamlessly (and have to be approved and endorsed by the family first!), and the belief - scarcely believable to contend in the document itself - that economic conditions could change and challenge the capacity of the club to realise future profits - Could change?!?! - is all wrapped up in a It-can't-happen-here-mentality that will be punctured by some club in the next few years, even if it isn't United. Is the past four years of economic hell having no effect at all? This news from the Glazers if it has any "positives" about it at all, tells you in their own schizophrenic way that a-change has already come. Sky's £750m a year for three years from 2013 is supposed to tell some people, including the fans, that football, despite the financial meltdown, is in rude health. Yet it can do no more than help pay out £500m... of interest on the debt, not the debt itself. The financial reports and accountants' audits, such as they are for some clubs, tells a very different tale of football's health and every single fan of every club should get out their calculators, start revising for their accountancy exams, and wise up to what is being done at United and many other clubs under their name.

@47

I am not taking anything away from City, but a bit of success doesnt mean they are proven, it took Spain 3 titles to be considered the best ever.

I think they still have a lot to prove and the comiing years will test them to the max, can they handle the pressure, will Manchini stay, will iinjury take its toll, so much to take on really.

Yes the deserved the title as much as Man U deserved to lose by not holding onto the lead against Everton.

But imo they are not proven, not in the real sense of the word.

6.At 13:00 4th Jul 2012, swintondude wrote:
"you couple this with the signings they have made like the kid from Crewe and Kagawa or whatever he's called (who is nothing more than an "in" to the Japanese market!) "

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The kid from crewe you speak of is one of the most highly-rated english youngsters in the country.

and "Kagawa or whatever he's called" made the Bundesliga XI of the season this year, he was Dortmunds most important player as they won the league this year and as they beat Bayern for the Cup. He is a Japanese David Silva but in my opinion far better.

At least try and read up about what your talking about, otherwise you will, as you've done here, make yourself look like an idiot.

48 Morrison had personal issues living in the Manchester area. it was well known in the community. Pogba signed up to Balotelli's agent afaik, and has reportedly secured a 100% pay rise by becoming a Juventus squad player. this is one of the risks when you go poaching other club's youth academies though.

As much as I hate the glazers and what they have done to the club they are very good business men on the whole. If we dont spend on atleast 2 more quality players id say that there greed is over coming thier business sense as if we had spent say 30mil on a top centre mid last season we would of won the title and most likely got out of our champions league group. That is already the 30mil from prize money and sponsorships plus we have a quality player.

You have to spend money to make money and its come to far now. The ronaldo money was never spent and we lost the title to city because we didnt address centre midfield for about the 6th season in a row.....

To convince the united fans that the glazer should go they need to buy 1-2 quality centre mids and a quality left back. This would be 50mil atleast on top of what we've already spent but when we make 100mil profit a season and desperately need areas strengthened its not much to ask imho.

If the 32mil for hazard doesnt get spent on another quality player I will be 100% sure that the glazers have fabricated our interest in in sniejder and hazard the past 2 years to make it seem like we are looking to spend. It will be very obvious if we dont spend the money as we didnt really need hazard and he doesnt exactly represent "value for money" as fergie would say.

Javi martinez however would offer value for money and sort our weakest area of the team.

45 you can't say he definitely won't though. you don't know who he will play with, exactly where he will play, or who else United will sign. you don't know if he'll settle in manchester, you don't know who he'll develop an undertsanding with...

from what little I've seen of Kagawa (all on the tele) he can operate in midfield or from the left, and should also fit perfectly into the split striker formation and allow Rooney to play as the main striker, particularly in Europe. that alone will be a drastic improvement, and if he is able to link well with Welbeck, Cleverley, Nani, Valencia and Young then United will play football to match the way they began last season. Injuries permitting then the prospect is thrilling and potential highly likely to bring rewards. And I've not even mentioned the way his style might dovetail with the all time greats that still play and train with United either, in the shape of Scholes and Giggs. Kagawa looks a very exciting signing to me.

24.At 13:48 4th Jul 2012, Londoner in exile returns wrote

He is a very good player but not exceptional and he is unproven against the level he will compete against

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yet another fool who buys this Premier league is best in the world Bull. Honestly every year some dimwit makes the genius point that a player is 'un-proven' at premier league level.. Didn't seem to affect
Cabaye(moved from ligue 1)
Cisse(moved from Bundesliga)
Jelavic(moved from SPL !!!)

..yeah the prem is soooo hard, I bet Kagawa will find it super difficult cos ya know, the bundesliga isn't as good as the best league in the world!!! durp!

honestly think of a genuine point to make, not just a statement you've heard some pundit say about every signing to ever come to the premier league which ultimately turns out to be b****cks.

"United is a business that will be around long after Sheik Mansour and Abramovich get bored of their toys."

I really don't understand people who say the above. How many billionaires do you know who spend hundreds of millions on a project and say "oh well, I'll just leave now and let my investments languish"? It's not going to happen, Mansour and Abram-O-vich are here to stay.

Has anyone noticed that due that our relationship with Celtic as diminshed since the Glazers took over? We used to have a pre-season friendly very often. Now, nothing. Not a suprise since the argument over the horse racing stud fees led to the coolmoore chaps upping their stake in order to maybe put presseure on Sir Alex and then ultimately selling it onto the Glazers. While Sir Alex is at the club Celtic will never again be afforded the respect they used to receive UNLESS it is in an official game capacity.

Ultimately the Glazers are not what a club like Manchester United deserve. They've made sure that no single entity can now afford the club. The Qataris don't even want to know because it will cost them a billion just to get the boardroom door to open let alone to gain full control. If I had this wealth I'd be looking at Newcastle or Birmingham City.

Pogba leaving a club whose central midfield (which includes two OAPs who require rotating, injury prone chubby Brazilian, a Scotsman whose recent photo at Wimbledon made him look like he belonged in the Trainspotting film and a young English midfielder who has been hyped up well beyond the number of games he has actually played) needs improving and off to a club whose central midfield (Vidal, what a bargain!) was amongst the best last season as well as completed the signing of central midfielder Asamoah (Isla is handy in central midfield too but most likely will be used anywhere on the right flank) within the last day or so. Money.

Though can't complain much about Pogba leaving, considering how he came.

So what kind of fool would buy shares that give you minimal voting rights and no dividend?

The Glazers have been bad for United and bad for football. The only way that they can clear this debt and still hang on to the club is to break away from the Premier League TV deal and sell their own rights. £300 per year? I would guess so. If City and Chelsea get endless cash from their benefactors then United will have to get the same from commerce and TV is the big one. Mark my words.

41.
At 14:21 4th Jul 2012, jutty128 wrote:

@34 king red

if you are going to alter my post or copy & paste parts of it at least leave in the part about the team i do support.
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sry buddy, it was a premature post, hadnt finished it

6.At 13:00 4th Jul 2012, swintondude wrote:
____________________

Glad to see the trolls are out!!

How is kagawa a bad signing? "the kid from Crewe" is one of the best young talents in england. Perhaps you said the same thing about the welsh kid from southampton as well? Or that young lad from shrewsbury?

The issue of pogba & morrison is more around wages. Unlike city, utd have a structure in place and pay players their actual worth. They don't hand out average players 100k pw wages.

Utd have never been a team (like city) to just plump up 500m to try and buy the league.

The IPO will hopefully remove the shackle of debt and allow utd to compete with Barca and Real for top talent. City are small fries.

"we didnt address centre midfield for about the 6th season in a row....."

Well said that man. Another thing that seems to be constantly overlooked is the height & physical stature of the sqaud. Can anyone tell me how many times we scored headers directly from corners last season or the season before that? once or twice I think. Now we've gone and bought Kagawa who is 5'8". Did anyone also notice that City used arial power to score against us and then dig themselves out of a hole against QPR to ultimately seal the title. Why is Sir Alex not addressing this?

57.
At 15:04 4th Jul 2012, mark kofi wrote:

"United is a business that will be around long after Sheik Mansour and Abramovich get bored of their toys."

I really don't understand people who say the above. How many billionaires do you know who spend hundreds of millions on a project and say "oh well, I'll just leave now and let my investments languish"? It's not going to happen, Mansour and Abram-O-vich are here to stay.
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i take it you just came up with that, without going into alot of non football issues, there have been multiple times when a billionaire has pulled out of an investment, even after pumping hundreds of millions into it. its a crazy time for football, liverpool get slated for spending 35m on carroll, chelsea spend 50 on torres but not as much noise over it, city spend over 20m on nearly every player but thats ok because they have it to spand, but united are slated for money spent, money in which the club earned, no sugar daddy involved. its like watching a spoilt little child get every thing they want from daddy but the brighter healthly kid gets told off for getting the same for themselves.

62.
At 15:13 4th Jul 2012, mark kofi wrote:

"we didnt address centre midfield for about the 6th season in a row....."

Well said that man. Another thing that seems to be constantly overlooked is the height & physical stature of the sqaud. Can anyone tell me how many times we scored headers directly from corners last season or the season before that? once or twice I think. Now we've gone and bought Kagawa who is 5'8". Did anyone also notice that City used arial power to score against us and then dig themselves out of a hole against QPR to ultimately seal the title. Why is Sir Alex not addressing this?

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Whats the average height in the spain squad? 5'9? 5'10?

32.At 14:09 4th Jul 2012, The Trawler wrote:
24 Londoner that's a very poor post I'm afraid. kagawa is clearly a superb footballer. I only wish United could sign Honda to play alongside him as well.

as for the chat about pogba and morrison, anyone who knows what they're on about would be well aware of their stories. citing them as examples of youngsters not wanting to be at United is laughable. pity they didn't get more game time last season, but being at United is as much about your character as your ability, especially at their age.
_________________________

Completely agree with everything you have said there.

I personally think a DM is priority and then we look "sorted".

Can someone just remind me how old Sir Alex Ferguson is?

59.
At 15:08 4th Jul 2012, Dirty boy wrote:

So what kind of fool would buy shares that give you minimal voting rights and no dividend?

The Glazers have been bad for United and bad for football. The only way that they can clear this debt and still hang on to the club is to break away from the Premier League TV deal and sell their own rights. £300 per year? I would guess so. If City and Chelsea get endless cash from their benefactors then United will have to get the same from commerce and TV is the big one. Mark my words.
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that makes no sense what so ever. united being bought over by a company that is making the club pay for its self is bad for football but billionaires raising wages and transfer fees isnt even looked at side ways! the problem with football is that like alot of people in the uk the mentality of get it now pay for it later covers nearly every aspect of the game

57.At 15:04 4th Jul 2012, mark kofi wrote:
"Has anyone noticed that due that our relationship with Celtic as diminshed since the Glazers took over?" - No offence but does anyone care? I mean we're starting to have a yearly friendly with barcelona. I'd prefer that than play "the best" scottish team.

"Ultimately the Glazers are not what a club like Manchester United deserve. They've made sure that no single entity can now afford the club. The Qataris don't even want to know because it will cost them a billion just to get the boardroom door to open let alone to gain full control." - Glazers don't want to relinquish control, hence utd aren't for sale. Qataris put in a £1bn bid which was rejected. Who sasys they would be better owners anyway?

So goes the saying, "the bigger they are, the harder they fall". On the day that Rangers are condemned to a new life (probably in the fourth tier of Scottish football), the Glazer-milked Manchester United seeks to raise money to address it's ever spiraling debts. The obvious analogy is what happened to our country in 2008. We kept on borrowing to address our debts and then one day, reality came home to roost and borrowing was reined in. Four years later we are all paying the price and I predict a similar outcome for Manchester United. I can already hear the objections though. We are the biggest club in the world. We have a massive global fan base. Our turnover is huge. And on and on and on. The problem remains. The model upon which the Glazers gamble is on winning trophies, competing in the Champions' League every year and winning or challenging for the Premier League every year. Last season yielded no trophies which was either a fluke or the beginning of a new trend. The competition around them domestically is far more serious than it was two or three years ago. Manchester City and Chelsea have both just overcome significant psychological hurdles with their first Premier League and Champions' League respectively. Admittedly, nobody is quite sure what to expect from North London this year but it is fair to say that Tottenham's new manager has a big point to prove. Newcastle can no longer be ignored and Pardew has put together a very effective unit in quick time. I predicted that the Manchester United manager would retire this year and this latest news only makes me more certain. He's clearly not going to have the sort of transfer budgets upon which he has become reliant over the last twenty years - in stark contrast to Chelsea and Manchester City. A final point remains. Claims of global fan bases are fickle at best. Jokes about the demographics of Manchester United fans aside, overseas fans will be more attracted to clubs winning trophies. Even Liverpool with their global claims at least put the Carling Cup on the shelf in the midst of a very poor season. I don't think the Manchester United is desperate yet but they really can't afford another barren season and have to be top three to guarantee another year on the Champions League gravy train.

57 the Celtic friendlies were stopped because of the overly aggressive tactics of the Celtic players in those supposed friendly matches at Old Trafford. there was a game between the teams in America though just a couple of years back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVTJjt0794o

Another year of being 2nd or not Champions League Final and Fergie will be shown the door !!

It s a fickle game football , look at Spurs !!! Good signing there !! Chelsea fans will be well pleased ..

The financial world is all about impressions, the right time to buy and the right time to sell. Saying Glazers are at Manchester United for the long run is something to be said to the innocent ones (read naive).

The fact is Glazers are trying to get some £67m to help pay "some debt" or "some interest" on the debt they brought to the club. To me, as a Manchester United supporter this simply means "United failed to reach at least the semi final in Champions League, so we have to find a way to get that expected cash". Does this imply though that commercial sales didn't go as expected?

City won the title and Glazers admitted that the debt is a burden in United's transfer policy. But was this news?

They say "when money counts in something, follow the money to find the truth".
At the moment, the truth says there is a desperate-looking attempt by Glazers to recoup some £67m in order to keep their plan about Manchester United paying Glazers' artificial debt.

By following the money, also, all I can read so far is United bought Kagawa for an initial fee of £12m and they also bought a kid from Crewe Alexandra. Erm... long live Sheikh Mansour. Buy 2-3 more excellent players and let City win the title by some 15-20 points. Perhaps the Glazers will start seeing the real world then when it comes to Manchester United and not just potential profits.

62 ** 71 this year -what a guy !!

@61
Kagawa is avergae at best. A £10mil player nobody else wanted. Like I said it'll get you shirt sales in Japan, good marketing ploy.

"Utd have never been a team (like city) to just plump up 500m to try and buy the league." haha best comment I've heard all day. United haven't bought their success. Oh my. That'll keep me laughing till the start of the season.

As for Pogba and Morrison it was nothing to do with wages and all to do with not getting game time coz of the dads army United have in midfield.

@52.
Just coz he played for the Bundeliga champions doesn't mean he's brilliant. Everybody also said watch the Poles go coz they got 3 players from Dortmund, yeah I watched em get tuned in!

As for floating in the NYSE, you will get NO institutional investors in United at all, there is simply no money or returns. It'd be lke investing in RIM shares. they were once good now there are going backwards and rubbish. ie Man United, nuff said

72

Its unknown at the moment as to how much they will try to raise from this move. The £64m figure was the bare minimum they had to put down to satisfy the criteria for registration fees, etc, in according to SEC/Securities Act.

Manchester United seeks to raise money to address it's ever spiraling debts.

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Ever spiralling?

69.At 15:35 4th Jul 2012, charlesburgessfry wrote:
So goes the saying, "the bigger they are, the harder they fall". On the day that Rangers are condemned to a new life (probably in the fourth tier of Scottish football), the Glazer-milked Manchester United seeks to raise money to address it's ever spiraling debts
________________________

Debts are not spiralling, just not reducing as quickly as hoped. Plus if Glazers went bankrupt, utd would not be short of interested parties.

To compare Utd to Rangers is like comparing Microsoft to Packard Bell.

Ferguson is holding United together with chewing gum and sticky tape and his undue influence over the FA.

Just look at the way he spoke about Pogba after he was gone - Ferguson has no class or dignity.

When he leaves, which isn't a moment too soon, United will implode and we will soon see a different side to the Glazers.

#75, 11_Giggsy_11_dont_save_606,

When you want to achieve big results, you advertise your promotion accordingly. To me, this move shows 2 things only:

a) it looks so much like that they expected an A' revenue (with an expected progression in Champions League) and failed to get it - the figures look so guiltily near.

b) when you start a move to recoup £60m-£70m to pay "some debt" / "some interest on debt", all I read into it is perhaps Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs will be given the burden to try to move forward the United midfield until middle-40's.

Oh here we go. Yawn.

74.At 15:48 4th Jul 2012, swintondude wrote:
_____________________

There's always one bertie on here embarrassing themselves.......I personally will find it funny once Mansour gets bored of City, or he gets his oil taken away from him!!

As for kagawa, average? So you haven't seen him play, is the answer!! The marketing is an added bonus. We are after all the biggest club in the world.

Well let's compare shall we. How much have utd spent since 92, compared to City, Chelsea, LFC, SPurs etc?

Pogba will be on 30k pw at Juve, utd would have never paid him that. Morrison wanted 30k pw as well, and was promptly told to find another club. City are quite happy to pay average plodders like barry and johnson 100k pw. Good luck on those FFP rules!!

Incredible how many posters feel they are better qualified to discuss Uniteds finances than the Glazers. I'm guessing you all have owned a world renowned sports team in your time?

Do you think they made billions of dollars by sheer luck? I suppose they travelled to the end of a rainbow and discovered several pots of gold.

They clearly know what they're doing. A lot more than most of the posters here for sure. United have had fantastic success under the Glazers, so what else really matters? There is no way in hell United will crumble, but as a Liverpool fan all i can do is dream.

79.

Comment 80 wasn't to you by the way. In relation to your post, 'meh'.

What's all the fuss about Pogba and Morrison? I saw them both play for United when I took the kids to Old Trafford to watch the Youth Cup semi-final second leg the season before last. Not particularly impressed by either. Though William Keane looked one for the future.

79.At 15:57 4th Jul 2012, Mind the gap wrote:
____________________

When you're listing part of hte company you have to state the financials of the company and your intentions for the investment the IPO will raise. Hence "pay for the debts". Any person knows that a company making >£100m operating profit with zero debt = £100m annual profit. So it makes sense to pay the debt off.

Faff me the city fans are out in numbers, all we need to do is bring up finances and football and they'll be happy to type all day.

The comments on kagawa suprise me, he's a very decent player. just because he signed for united doesnt mean you cant rate him, as i said earlier, he covered for mario goatze for 4 months with the team skipping a beat.

I think SAF has ever right to say what he did about Pogba. How can he hold a club like Man U to ransom, i saw him play looked like a good player but notgood enough to take anyone by storm. Just imagine how many good players at the same level as him would just consider it a privilege ust to be part of a big club.

I dont think Man U are going to go away that soon, it took years of success to keep a liverpool team floating around the top but then caught up. Man U are far bigger.

And even if Fergerson goes and seeing how everyone loves to speculate what will happen next and most of it is wishful thinking that Man U will just collapse.

But if we are allowed to speculate then why not think about the possibility that JM will be the next manager and bring in some of the talents from Real Madrid.

78.At 15:55 4th Jul 2012, dogeared wrote:
"Ferguson is holding United together with chewing gum and sticky tape and his undue influence over the FA." - I take LFC are already in collapse?

"Just look at the way he spoke about Pogba after he was gone - Ferguson has no class or dignity. " - What? The truth is now classless? Look at the way your ex manager and ambassador spoke about a case of racism!!

"When he leaves, which isn't a moment too soon, United will implode and we will soon see a different side to the Glazers." - Is the LFC hope. In reality, another talented manager will take the mantle to lead the most popular club in the world to further success.

#82, brooksy,

I've never seen a Manchester United fan say Glazers don't know what they're doing.
Of course they do. And they're masters in it.

They identified Manchester United as the best cash cow in football available for milking on planet Earth (Real Madrid and Barcelona belong to their fans). And they're doing a great milking job.

74.
At 15:48 4th Jul 2012, swintondude wrote:

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You are an idiot, you've obviously never seen kagawa play. A team doesn't win the bundesliga when their best player is "average at best". And those poles you speak of, remember Blaszczykowski's screamer against Russia? yeah he was one of those dortmund players.

The style of writing in all your posts just gives the overriding impression you are 15 years old

Just look at the way he spoke about Pogba after he was gone - Ferguson has no class or dignity.

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He didn't say anything that every single United fan wasn't thinking, in fact he was quite restrained.

I'm sure he'll get in ahead of Pirlo though....

81.
At 15:59 4th Jul 2012, eduard_streltsov_ghost wrote:
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that will just go in one ear and out the other im afriad, no matter how much sense it makes.

As a United fan I have to confess I couldn't care less if Pogba has chosen Juventus for his future. At 19 he couldn't get even a regular substitute role in the team, besides the well documented problems in midfield.

How old is Jones? He was a regular last season.
How old was Smalling when he started playing regularly?
How old is Oxlade at Arsenal?
How old was Ramsey there or Wilshere when they started playing regular football at Arsenal?
Not to mention how old was Messi when he was running rings around Chelsea defenders at Stamford Bridge once upon a time.

The little I saw Pogba play for United he didn't give me one single hint he's any special talent. Great talents always find a way to make a statement on the pitch.

#93 Mind the gap

Not to mention how old was Messi when he was running rings around Chelsea defenders at Stamford Bridge once upon a time.
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Hmm. Given that he has never scored at Stamford Bridge, or against Chelsea generally for that matter, what shape were these rings? ;-)

the bitterness coming out of some of these dummys is just hilerious, United set the standard of the prem league, united have more prem league titles than EVERYONE else put together, united make more profits than 8 other clubs inthe prem do combined, we dont relie on a sugar daddy to hand us money when required, we relie on the business model set by the club, which is the best in the country.

take all you comments roll them all up and take a big smoke of bitter envy.

im a firm believer in give credit where its due, but most comments on here are just down right wrong.

92.At 16:15 4th Jul 2012, King Red wrote:
81.
At 15:59 4th Jul 2012, eduard_streltsov_ghost wrote:
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that will just go in one ear and out the other im afriad, no matter how much sense it makes.
_____________________
You still have to try and educate the uneducated ones.......

93.
At 16:16 4th Jul 2012, Mind the gap wrote:

As a United fan I have to confess I couldn't care less if Pogba has chosen Juventus for his future.
=======================
if it were any other club we wouldnt even know his name! not one display of his was worth watching...... uk'em

#97 King Red

Was that the same as with, say, Pique?

94.At 16:20 4th Jul 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
Hmm. Given that he has never scored at Stamford Bridge, or against Chelsea generally for that matter, what shape were these rings? ;-)
_______________________

Thoughts on it all from our resident financial expert?

PS Messi was running rings, just not scoring. If you want to look for a player that did both, that was Ronaldinho! ;)

inside the head of a blue

As for the talk of "when fergie goes" i wonder what mad man of a manager would even consider taking over at such an aweful club, i mean how many managers have they had from the prem started?? that coupled with the fan base that worships the ground the manager walks on and the list of players that has come through the club, i think united would be lucky to get big sam. compared to clubs like chelsea and city where managers come but never go, Old traf should be next to the job centre!