Hicks will not go quietly

So if the board agree the sale to Mill they face a civil action from NESV for breach of contract, but if they sell to NESV everyone gets what they want and are entitled to?

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

im a bit confused as the motivation here, why would H&G want to continue to be involved with LFC (its obvious they will not make money out of LFC)? why would Mill want to own it? I dont know the exact figures but i dont think Mill are paying the stupidly high price that H&G originally wanted, and unless Mill invest heavily in the club (players, stadium etc) they will never get a high price for the club. such a shame for LFC, although it had to happen to a massive english club at one point, perhaps shame on us all (football fans, players, managers, everyone involved) for letting OUR sport get to this point! can you imagine Brian Clough, Shankely, Paisly, Busby etc allowing overseas owners to rule in this way? They ruled with pride, passion and ambition, not money and bitterness....

@1 "if they sell to NESV everyone gets what they want and are entitled to? "

Hicks maybe gets what he's entitled to in this scenario but not what he wants which seems to be the crux of the whole thing!

I'm no lawyer or expert on law, but how can a US judge issue a restraining order against something happening outside the jurisdiction of his court, ie. America?

I'm not sure how Hicks can win this one. Here in the UK, you can't just sell your shares in an unlisted company to anyone you fancy, at the very least the sale has to be agreed by the directors.

Always frustrating when commercial disputes go legal .....

As the repayment to RBS is due today, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen over the next few hours. A very unsatisfactory situation Liverpool is in at the moment.

Time for the Premier League to change the rules, so something like this cannot happen again. Putting personal debts on a club in order to make a purchase should have been outlawed before the Hicks, Gillets and Glazer`s did just that.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

the board are a joke. they're clearly trying to make sure hicksy and gillett get no money out of this sale by sellling to possible the lowest bidder

nesv are buying liverpool wayyyyyyy below market value. and why should hicksy just sit there in his texas ranch and accept this. good on you old chap for dragging this out.

to SoxSexSax:

its obvious everyone in this is ill informed (H&G, LFC, fans, pundits, bloggers, board of directors, NESV, Mill)!!!

oh and by the way, he is not showing tenacity at all, tenacity would have been to have worked hard with the other at the club to make his ownership work! he didnt do this

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Shares in this, shares in that, hedge funds, billion here billion there...

What a sad way to run a football club.

Worse still. What a sad way to run a world!!! All that cash being bandied about by people who have never gotten their hands dirty with real work whilst millions of others are starving.

Mad.

The sale is not being made below market value. The club is worth £600m and is £300m in debt. Ergo, buying at £300m is bang on right.

Hicks and Gillet are being morons, desperate to hold on to a loss making asset, for apparently no reason. If Liverpool goes into administration, the value will decrease more and they will have even less money. It seems like they're doing this out of pure greed.

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surely hicks cannot simply sign over control to mill financial as in effect, they will be the new owners of the club. premier league rules state any potential change of ownership has to be put to them 10 days prior. Mill would also have to go through the fit and proper owners test. NESV have already gone through this process

Everyone had said, even at the first intimation of a deal, that Statler & Waldorf would not go quietly - and so it proves. RBS & The others on the board seem to have gone into a huddle to do this deal with NESV, to the exclusion of all other parties. RBS Lent the money to Statler & Waldorf in the first place, but now just seem to think that they don't exist and the club can be sold without further ado. Yes OK, I guess the two of them backed the loan with Liverpool as the collatoral but however much the Liverpool fans & board don't want them, they exist.

This will rumble on but I think even RBS have got more brains that to call the loan in, that is spitting into the wind big time !!.

to sykop:

i dont disagree with your sentiment, and i hope RBS do rip them apart, but car crash.... hmmmm not so sure, perhaps a certain part of his anatomy faling off (if it hasnt already) would be more just haha

Im a Notts Forest fan and remember (many years ago) our rivarly, it was great and i respect LFC alot, love to watch them play and know the pool fans to be among the most passionate in the world, hope all is ok for LFC, if not this season then next

"nesv are buying liverpool wayyyyyyy below market value. and why should hicksy just sit there in his texas ranch and accept this. good on you old chap for dragging this out"

What? I'm not a red, but.... have H & G invested any of there own money into the club? To the best of my knowledge all they have done is secure everything against the club. A club that since they bought it has fallen out of the financially beneficial Champions League, are currently sitting in the bottom three and as such can only have a value less than that which they bought it for!

To value the club at £600 million is a joke and he knows it!

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After the dust has settled and the recriminations start, will the FA deduct the points that Livepool should b deducted for being in administration- whichever way you look at it- technically they are in administration. Any other club barring Manchester United would be hammered 9 points. Leicester City got points deducted as did Leeds United, there are [probably others and they all have similar if not exact circumstances surrounding there financial situations].
All too often the toothless FA don't respond with their own legislative powers. A prime example is Sir Alex Fergusson still doesn't give an interview on the BBC, and he was told that he would have to when the new rules came into being at the start of the football season which has now been running nearly 3 months.

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I do feel a bit sorry for the supporters of LFC, but this is such an interesting story for us neutrals.

Can someone answer a couple of questions for me please?

1. If the NESV takeover goes ahead, would Hicks sue? and if so whom? LFC, RBS, individuals or a combination of all three?

2. Does anyone think he would win?

3. Has this latest twist got any legs or do you think the sale will go through to NESV?

it seems bruce buck is a legend dosnt seem to understand that sometimes what you buy today, might have less or more value in the future, like houses, shares (in any company) etc.

perhaps there is something on the CBBC website that outlines such basics that nearly all adults understand.

This will run and run, with RBS rufusing to accept full repayament "for legal reasons" Hicks will have a field day in the States with his "conspiracy" charge...Liverpool are shafted both ways (some of the comments on this are very strange, its almost like they don't read the detail and assume Hicks wrong, others right, which is far from the reality).

stebluenose, not a lawyer but.....

1. I assume that because he signed over the rights for board control to Broughton he stands little chance.

2. He would need to prove Liverpool was worth more - unlikely given a downturn in the economy and the lack of progression since he bought the club.

3. NESV has a legally binding contract and Mill's takeover would have to be approved by the board. The same board who want to sell to NESV so I would assume NESV are in the driving seat still.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Suggestions NESV are buying the club below market value are ridiculous. Firstly, there is no active market for football clubs so to suggest there is a market value at all is stupid.
Secondly, from what has been reported all bids made have been in the same ballpark, thus suggesting that the £300m bid by NESV is actually reasonable and is a premium on what would be offered should RBS have to step in and sell the club.

"RBS Lent the money to Statler & Waldorf in the first place, but now just seem to think that they don't exist and the club can be sold without further ado."

Welcome to our planet. Here on Earth if you loan money and then agree an extension to the loan with certain conditions, then both break the conditions and don't pay back the loan, the plaintiff can take steps to recover the money. This includes selling the asset you put up as collateral. If you are then invited to participate in the sales process but disrupt it or refuse to take part you are likely to be overuled by what is called a vote by the board of directors.
This is what has happened here.
I hope you enjoy your time with us.

@FedupwithGovt and CoalitionOfTheWilting.

Brilliant. You beat me to it.

Disgusting.

Disgusting how the Premier League and Sky have sapped the life from our game, prostituting themselves for more and more money. Disgusting how clubs the latest of which is Liverpool have found themselves in this mess due to the unregulated greed of the Premier League and Sky.

Disgusting how fans are now customers. Disgusting how ticket prices stop so many fans from watching the game they love. Disgusting that free to air football has almost gone. Disgusting the huge wages and transfer fees. Disgusting the agents and lawyers fees.

Disgusting the greed and ineptitude of Hicks and Gilette who have run this great club into the ground. Disgusting that they would still desperately try to hold onto their 'franchise' and not give a thought for the 'customers'

Disgusting that 'fans' can take pleasure in other clubs suffering, when the sad truth is that no club in the Premier League is immune from these vultures.

Disgusting that English football has sold it's soul to the Devil. How did we let this happen? Can we somehow reclaim our game?

wel5hexile

Completely agree, all the offers are just to pay off the debt and then further funds for stadium or players. Any offer is giving old Hicks diddly squat!

Well there was a cash buyer in the wings at 320 million who
swore blind that he was excluded from all the dealings.
No one doubted that he was genuine but he has obviously taken
umbridge at the way the three other members of the board ignored
him and his offer etc.

"Well there was a cash buyer in the wings at 320 million who
swore blind that he was excluded from all the dealings.
No one doubted that he was genuine but he has obviously taken
umbridge at the way the three other members of the board ignored
him and his offer etc."

You can only assume the deal, while looking nice may have had hidden nasties. Secured debt, minimal investment etc etc...

My feeling is that Hicks knows the game is up in terms of ownership and that NESV will be the owners. What he is doing now is creating 'evidence' that this is a 'stitch-up', forcing RBS to be seen to refuse Mill's money and so on, so he can strengthen his case for damages. I feel for sure that is the next stage after NESV take control, hopefully today. Heaven knows how long all that will last. LFC could be in the courts all season at this rate.

To JamTay1:

spot on, in every way!!!

how can we reclaim it? i dont see how, as some (economists who are experts in financial/market cycles, ie the same people that predicted the credit crunch around 5-6 years ago) say that many many clubs will start to collapse, and english football will fall to its knees, only then can we start a fresh page and reclaim it.

26. At 10:08am on 15 Oct 2010, Bruce Buck Is A Legend wrote:
14. At 09:56am on 15 Oct 2010, FedupwithGovt wrote:

==============

ahh shutup. blog after blog you're on here defending liverpool to the hilt like a blind bat. accept criticism of your team when its down in the dumps.

why you getting personal for? you bitter foul mouthed individual. you got no class mate. coming out with expletive after expletive towards anyone who dares mentioning your sorry club.

heaven forbid anyone criticises your club and the fact that rafa spent wildly for 5 years

heaven forbid anyone criticises your players for not performing on the pitch and using off the pitch matters as a cover up to excuse their pathetic form

heaven forbid anyone criticises rafas ridiculous purchases. utter dross was purchased. thats part of the reason your lclub is in a sorry state.

===========================================

Nothing wrong with honest criticism - it's your obvious vindictiveness that I find childishly offensive. So please, just grow up.

"accept criticism of your team when its down in the dumps."
BBuck
Er what has this whole process got to do with the team?
Most Liverpool supporters and indeed Jamie Carragher have said performance is down to the players.
Yet here we have a deranged rant against Liverpool Football club which has nothing to do with the discussion regarding the sales process. The team is performing appallingly, there are players who don't deserve to wear the shirt and I believe we have the wrong manager. That good enough for you?
So why are you so bitter?
Why do you want Liverpool to lose this case when the High Court has stated twice that Hicks actions are unwarranted?
Or don't you believe in British justice? Or do you just hate football?
I'd love to see how you'd get on under Texas law.

30. At 10:11am on 15 Oct 2010, JamTay1 wrote:
Disgusting.

Disgusting how the Premier League and Sky have sapped the life from our game, prostituting themselves for more and more money. Disgusting how clubs the latest of which is Liverpool have found themselves in this mess due to the unregulated greed of the Premier League and Sky.

Disgusting how fans are now customers. Disgusting how ticket prices stop so many fans from watching the game they love. Disgusting that free to air football has almost gone. Disgusting the huge wages and transfer fees. Disgusting the agents and lawyers fees.

Disgusting the greed and ineptitude of Hicks and Gilette who have run this great club into the ground. Disgusting that they would still desperately try to hold onto their 'franchise' and not give a thought for the 'customers'

Disgusting that 'fans' can take pleasure in other clubs suffering, when the sad truth is that no club in the Premier League is immune from these vultures.

Disgusting that English football has sold it's soul to the Devil. How did we let this happen? Can we somehow reclaim our game?

================================================

Totally agree - DISGUSTING. The only way fans can fight back is by boycotting games/cancelling Sky - hit them where it hurts - in their pockets - it's all these people understand.

...quite plainly it has to be said, if you're not a Liverpool fan, and you have no savvy of Business or Law, or anything constructive to say, jog on you small-minded un-educated ignorant excuses for men!
We can take criticism of our club, we always have done - it's one of the reasons I love being a Liverpool fan... it's just funny hearing it from people like YOU that have limited cerebral intelligence... very humorous indeed.

"nesv are buying liverpool wayyyyyyy below market value. and why should hicksy just sit there in his texas ranch and accept this. good on you old chap for dragging this out"

You are surely having a laugh, H+G and bought Liverpool for 5,000 a share. The value being 174.1 million, what makes you think their value should have gone up when they have successfully loaded more debt onto the club and on the pitch they are below average.

33. At 10:13am on 15 Oct 2010, Paul Goode wrote:
"Well there was a cash buyer in the wings at 320 million who
swore blind that he was excluded from all the dealings.
No one doubted that he was genuine but he has obviously taken
umbridge at the way the three other members of the board ignored
him and his offer etc."

You can only assume the deal, while looking nice may have had hidden nasties. Secured debt, minimal investment etc etc...
-------------------------------------------
The improved offer you are talking about only came in after the board had agreed to sell to NESV and the club were in the high court trying to remove (successfully) H&G's attempted block of the sale.

Apparently, the initial offers were the same but NESV improved the cash element of the deal so their offer was the one the board accepted.

Im still confused what Hicks and Gillette have done wrong, other than owning a club having a dip of form. Why should they have 114m written off?

This thread is a good example of why Liverpool fans have pushed the neutral fan away. Anyone who dares to take an opposing view are called names and abused. I suppose it's not a surprise knowing the typical Liverpool fan.

Thing is, the vast majority of fans lauded the arrival of the two rich Americans. A few lone voices got shouted down. It raised hopes that for the first time in 20 years, the whole 'this is our year' rubbish would come true. Remember, Hicks, like NESV, has success with other sporting 'franchises'.

Still, we'll be doing this all again in a few years time as the latest American owner doesn't know what to do with the club and tries to sell it for a profit.

Perhaps a relegation would give Liverpool fans the same thing it gave to Newcastle fans. A healthy dose of perspective.

Why did the Dallas court adjourn overnight - that's what i want to know?

Yes, Hicks is unscrupulous, but it also seems that the American courts are doing everything they can to help him by buying time.

It is absolutely beyond belief and any kind of just judicial procedure.

In view of that I suggest LFC and NESV ignore the irrelevant restraining order and get on with the sale.

People like SuxSexSax and Bruce can't be bothered to write the rest of your stupid username display not just their bitterness and childishness but also a complete and total lack of knowledge of not just the process atLiverpool - through no fault of the fans - but also football in general. This is a bigger crisis than Liverpool. What we have seen in British football is the emergence of leverage buyout chancers taking proud British institutions and attempting what some would call financial rape. When RBS demanded their loan be repaid, Hicks instigated a process which has resulted in him being asked to withdraw the suit delaying the sale or face being in contempt of British law. Hicks has previous here - see Texas Rangers and the deal he tried to reach from Chapter 11 which was contested in court by the creditors. Hicks lost, Texas Rangers was sold for $100m more and all the money went to creditors. So apart from the wider issues facing football which these narrow minded pathetic little posters mentioned above ignore, it's a sad reflection on their own values that they admire Hick's behaviour and think it is something to hold up as a good example.
By the way, after 7 months of trying to sell the club how the hell do you know it's being sold way below it's market value?

Sorry, I appreciate tensions are running high at the moment, and i sympathise with LFC fans who are undoubtedly worried about the future, but i dont think there is any need to wish "car crashes" on people and the like!! At the end of the day these people came in and tried to make some money out of a football club - that is the whole point of business and happens at all football clubs!!

I dont remember many Liverpool fans moaning about Hicks and Gillett when they were buying the likes of Fernando Torres a few years ago. No, but now the club has drained them of their money, you want a new one who you can drain of money - how many years before John Henry's name is vilified because he has stopped sinking cash into the money pit that is LFC?

I am intrigued to know what will happen if Mill Financial manage to offer to clear the debts by the deadline. Surely this meets RBS's requirement, and kills off the need for a sale. Broughton the chairman is then in a difficult position, because he has been hired by RBS to ensure they reclaim their money - if he refuses this offer then isnt there an argument Hicks and Gillett (and Mill Financial now) can use that he has a conflict of interest?? That is my (limited) understanding at least.

well this saga is never ending it seems, anyway if Mill Financial is willing to repay RBS then RBS will have no reason to contest the purchase and Mill Financial would be the new owners. NESV will be left at the altar although to be fair its hard to say they would have been better than Mill Financial as owners

42. At 10:27am on 15 Oct 2010, phillip wrote:

Im still confused what Hicks and Gillette have done wrong, other than owning a club having a dip of form. Why should they have 114m written off?

_______________________________________________

Once clubs were allowed to form a plc,thus by passing rules about floating on the stock exchange,it was fairly obvious that people would start buying them.

A foreign owner isn't necessarily an issue eg Chelsea,Manchester Un**ed and possibly Man City.The problem arises if it affects the club by taking them into administration.

Had Liverpool won the league 2 seasons ago I don't think the ownership would have taken the gloss off it for the fans.

I don't think it's a dip in form for Liverpool,more the state Benitez left them in.They were/are reliant on 3 key players.Carragher is getting old,Torres out of form and Gerrard isn't playing his best either.

Every supporter has a right to voice their opinion including Bruce Buck Is A Legend. Now I happen not to agree with his approach because he is approaching it by solely looking at the media spin from both sides but that is his privelege.
Now for thosae who have actually looked at a little deeper thatn sky sports or the national news channels will know that:
1. in April Hicks and Gillet gave up their sole rightss to sell the club as part of the 6 month extension form RBS and Wachovia.
2. Any sale would have to be approved by the new board which Broughton was put in charge of by Hicks and Gillet. This was in court documents for wednesday case.
3. Hicks and Gillet were given to 15/10 to pay up or sell. if not done by then RBS would call in the debt i.e. administration
4. on wednesday evening H&G effectively "lied" to a texas district court about what was happening making no reference to lost case in UK.
5. UK high court has upheld the boards right to sell the club to who they and not H&G choose. Therfore Mill Finincial deal is subject to same scrutiny as NESV were last week. RBS may wish take their money from whoever but wish for their legal rights to observed by H&G under a agreement which they signed.
This is a sequence of facts not media conjecture so as a liverpool fan I wish these 2 gentlemen out of my club. The vitriol towards is becaise they are dismantling a once great club. Ask yourself would you be as hostile if it was your club being placed in such opn ridicule. We are first to go through this level of mess I doubt we will be the last

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

to dogeared #44

indeed it seems that the Texas judge is buying time, im sure he has personal reasons to do what he can to delay things, we all know what that means but propably shouldnt spell it out! however i dont think legally, LFC and NESV can proceed untill this is resolved, which is why they are doing what they can (adjourn overnight) to delay things.

Surely if Mill Financial offer to pay off the Liverpool debt, RBS cannot refuse this. As far as I understand things, the debt is due before 4 pm today and Mill Financial already bought out Gillette's 50% of the club in August, so the debt is half theirs anyway.

38. At 10:19am on 15 Oct 2010, FedupwithGovt wrote:
30. At 10:11am on 15 Oct 2010, JamTay1 wrote:
Disgusting.

Disgusting how the Premier League and Sky have sapped the life from our game, prostituting themselves for more and more money. Disgusting how clubs the latest of which is Liverpool have found themselves in this mess due to the unregulated greed of the Premier League and Sky.

Disgusting how fans are now customers. Disgusting how ticket prices stop so many fans from watching the game they love. Disgusting that free to air football has almost gone. Disgusting the huge wages and transfer fees. Disgusting the agents and lawyers fees.

Disgusting the greed and ineptitude of Hicks and Gilette who have run this great club into the ground. Disgusting that they would still desperately try to hold onto their 'franchise' and not give a thought for the 'customers'

Disgusting that 'fans' can take pleasure in other clubs suffering, when the sad truth is that no club in the Premier League is immune from these vultures.

Disgusting that English football has sold it's soul to the Devil. How did we let this happen? Can we somehow reclaim our game?

================================================

Totally agree - DISGUSTING. The only way fans can fight back is by boycotting games/cancelling Sky - hit them where it hurts - in their pockets - it's all these people understand.

================================================

Isn't it sad that it has come to that? The problem is that a large percentage of people in the Sky/Premier League bubble do not realise that this is such a serious problem. Just look at how much Sky charge your local pub to air Premier League football. The other problem is that fans who do realise how bad things have gotten are turning away from the game. It's a horrendous mess and I really don't know how it can be resolved.

Hicks and Gillett must be making this up as they go along.

First it was a conspiracy and now they are saying they are better options. So what they signed away their right to pontificate upon such matters when they FREELY gave responsibility to Broughton. They even waxed lyrical about Mr Broughton's credentials and his love of the club.

I can understand the legal politeness of our High Court judge in offering H&G a way out by terminating the temporary restraining order or standing in contempt. Judge Jordan seems to need a lot of time to understand a pretty clear UK ruling. Maybe he would be better served by advising Messrs H&G to leave quietly by the backdoor.

46. At 10:32am on 15 Oct 2010, SirMouseburger wrote:

Sorry, I appreciate tensions are running high at the moment, and i sympathise with LFC fans who are undoubtedly worried about the future, but i dont think there is any need to wish "car crashes" on people and the like!! At the end of the day these people came in and tried to make some money out of a football club - that is the whole point of business and happens at all football clubs!!

I dont remember many Liverpool fans moaning about Hicks and Gillett when they were buying the likes of Fernando Torres a few years ago. No, but now the club has drained them of their money, you want a new one who you can drain of money - how many years before John Henry's name is vilified because he has stopped sinking cash into the money pit that is LFC?

I am intrigued to know what will happen if Mill Financial manage to offer to clear the debts by the deadline. Surely this meets RBS's requirement, and kills off the need for a sale. Broughton the chairman is then in a difficult position, because he has been hired by RBS to ensure they reclaim their money - if he refuses this offer then isnt there an argument Hicks and Gillett (and Mill Financial now) can use that he has a conflict of interest?? That is my (limited) understanding at least.

============================================================================

NESV have a binding contract to buy the club. If Broughton, Purslow and Ayre vote for a sale to Mill, which they would have to do in order for a transfer of ownership to proceed, then the three of them leave themselves open to legal action from NESV.

If the Dallas injunction is overturned in time, it's difficult to see past a sale to NESV.

Hicks can moan all he likes. H+G signed away the sole rights to decide who can buy the club and for how much.

43. At 10:28am on 15 Oct 2010, AJ_WFC wrote:
This thread is a good example of why Liverpool fans have pushed the neutral fan away. Anyone who dares to take an opposing view are called names and abused. I suppose it's not a surprise knowing the typical Liverpool fan.

Thing is, the vast majority of fans lauded the arrival of the two rich Americans. A few lone voices got shouted down. It raised hopes that for the first time in 20 years, the whole 'this is our year' rubbish would come true. Remember, Hicks, like NESV, has success with other sporting 'franchises'.

Still, we'll be doing this all again in a few years time as the latest American owner doesn't know what to do with the club and tries to sell it for a profit.

Perhaps a relegation would give Liverpool fans the same thing it gave to Newcastle fans. A healthy dose of perspective.

===============================================

Perhaps if two supposedly wealthy American business bought your club, promised investment, a new stadium etc etc you would be dancing with a certain amount of joy. The problem is that they misled the club, the banks and the fans. They have loaded the club with debt, the new stadium is a distant dream. By their current actions they have finally shown themselves for what they are - shysters. Your comment about name calling and abuse is rather wide of the mark. There has been little constructive criticism from other fans, mainly vindictive gloating. As to 'typical Liverpool fan' - hhmmm. As to 'our year' - isn't being wildly optimistic about the upcoming season part of being a fan. Maybe you are just an armchair supporter - sounds like it.

If Mill are willing to pay Hicks money for his shares and pay off the RBS then surely the deal is worth more than that being proposed by NESV? If that's the case then the board must consider the merits of the proposed sale to Mill. Or perhaps the RBS are exercising some sort of control over board members in which case they should resign having not disclosed such an interest.

As far as I can make out Messrs. Hicks & Gillett have run the club exceedingly poorly in their time. They've laid off massive debt on to the club, done nothing to improve the business's performance but quite the contrary and no doubt taken healthy annual earnings / dividends all at minimal risk to themselves and maximal risk to the club itself and its creditors. Now they want a massive pay off to leave the business before they utterly bankrupt it.

Owe money to RBS? Sounds to me like they should be Directors there..

Is anyone else nervous about the prospect of ownership of the club passing over to a hedge fund?

Weren't hedge funds one of the contributing factors towards the Credit Crunch?

Give me strength... YNWA

Its a shame that this Liverpool situation has become such a circus.

But it has shown in clear light that the view of American courts is ludicrous to the point of contempt to our British / English system.

Anyway the club will move on today. It will be for the best in whatever way is decided, anything that resembles an owner cannot be worse than our current Hicks / Gillett system.

So the plausible outcomes for the day:
Preference: NESV bid accepted and completed at 16:01.
(If this happens I’m pretty sure we’ll be in and out of court for many months if not years with Hicks trying to win back some lost cash … but the end result will always be the same NESV owns liverpool)

Not Good: Mills (being part owners already) pay the RBS loan before 16:00, at which point they can then remove the current board and invoke a pre-contract that they’ve made with Hicks regarding the RBS payment to take full control of the club. Basically a sale that does not need to be ok’d by the current board cause frankly, once the RBS loan is paid up there’s little they can do about the club.
(I’m guessing if this situation arose then NESV will sue for “breach of contract” as they’ve supposedly got a sales agreement …)

Is it really worse?: 16:02 comes the money has not been received by RBS from the club, the NESV bid is stalled over this “injunction” and so RBS repossess’s the asset. We go on general sale next week …

At 10:08am on 15 Oct 2010, Bruce Buck Is A Legend
'heaven forbid anyone criticises rafas ridiculous purchases. utter dross was purchased. thats part of the reason your lclub is in a sorry state.'

Why do people get tetchy with people like you?
Because you are misinformed, misled and mistaken, but you love to shout loudly. If you had bothered to do some research into Liverpool's spending rather than believe the hyperbole of the papers then you would know that the spending under Benitez since 2007. Outspent by £75 million by Sunderland, £59 million by Villa, £39 million by Stoke, £55 million by Spurs, £26 million by Birmingham, £58 million by Chelsea.

Since Liverpool finished the highest points total for 2nd, they have not invested and made a profits in transfers, but lack of investment
despite regularly qualifying for the Champions League, it is no surprise about the start of a decline.

Forget about history, Liverpool have significantly over achieved on the budget available, but where are all the negatives about ultra successful Spurs, Sunderland or Villa?

It's a money game; in time only Chelsea or Man City will thrive due to benefactors willing to throw their money at the clubs. Since Abramovich opened the floodgates, Arsenal can't win anything anymore. They are still in the top echelons due to the their new stadium, Man Utd will still be near the top but will struggle to win titles in the coming years.

You are entitled to have a pop at Liverpool, but try and get some facts together if you really can be bothered.

To all the hick's backers. You are siding with the devil and you are siding with the concept of leverage buyouts I would not wish this plight on our fiercest rivals it has been horrible and i have lost sleep and hair over this!

The valuation of 300m is spot on the americans paid less than that when then took control four years ago when we had won the CL the year before we were FA cup winners and we were going into our second CL final in three years, so how can we now be worth 600 million? We are not in the CL not in the carling cup and are sat deservedly in the bottom three of the league table.

How can a uk company be subject to a judge judy decision?

I know a lot of people that are neautrals so no they've not all been pushed away, and I ceratinly don't respond like that regarding history or our trophy cabinet when I'm bantering with people - even in hot discussion. People get heated because others are intent on winding them up... what's the point in that?

As an British taxpayer. I want this deal with NESV to go through asap, simply so we get a little of our money back. As a fan of football, though not Liverpool, I'm concerned about the ability of NESV to help Liverpool. Yes, they've been successful in America, though the talk of stadium improvements/moves is fanciful, they haven't done it with their current team, they won't do it with Liverpool.
In addition, most American owners in Britiain struggle, they simply don't seem to get the way things are done over here, so I don't think Henry is going to be any better, all he'll do is take on your debt personally, and believe me, thats no better than owing the bank. I'm a Newcastle fan, and our debts to one man now, and that mans an idiot who wont go away.
As for fans asking how come an American court can delay British court proceedings, thats very simple. NESV and RBS have massive American dealings, which will suffer if they are seen to ignore the Texas court, and theres no point in a British court holding Hicks/Gillett in contempt - they simply wont come back to Britain.

For me though, theres a much bigger concern for Liverpool fans - your team is rubbish. Take away Gerrard and Torres (who are both struggling at the moment) and the rest of the team is lower premier league/upper championship level. Roy Hodgson is a decent manager, but only with a smaller club with low expectation levels - he's not the man to fix Liverpool. You've been promised £40 million in transfer funds - thats not enough, clubs wont want to sell in January, so you'll have to pay over the odds to get anyone, and thats on top of the compensation package you'll have to give Hodgson when you sack him before Christmas

I would happily take administration and a 9 point penalty over Mill Financial owning the club.

But I still can't see past a sale to NESV.

what a mess, im getting more and more confused by all this!!! and the clock is ticking!!! only a few hours left until something or someone has to give!!

one thing im am sure about though, is that its not fair to say "typical fan" of anyone or any club, fans are not stupid they are just not all lawyers (thank god!) and we all have to go on the information the press gives us (who are also not lawyers), before money ruined the game fans were not seen as stupid or smart, good or bad, just decent (mostly) people who support their club.

lets stop insulting each other, we are all reading and contributing to this blog because we like football and are interested in what happens. mild gloating always happens in football, its part of what we love about it, but getting personal is not so nice.

50. At 10:37am on 15 Oct 2010, Bruce Buck Is A Legend wrote:
43. At 10:28am on 15 Oct 2010, AJ_WFC wrote:
================================================

i mentioned about the sale of the club and two of these bitter individuals started hurling insults at me then proceeded to tell me to grow up. WHAT ON EARTH?

======================================

You really take the biscuit. Just like a defender who has taken out an opposing player - stands there with arms spread - 'wot ref - wot did I do wrong'. You have been on LFC's case all through these blogs with sniping, vindictive comments that hardly enlightened the debate or moved it forward. Snipe away if it makes you happy. You are pitiful.

63. At 10:47am on 15 Oct 2010, SyKop wrote:
============================================

maybe you're one of the decent minded humble liverpool fans then.

If Liverpool Football Club fall, it should be considered a national disaster. I support Newcastle and don't have any affiliation to Liverpool whatsoever, but as a football fan I would like to see Liverpool prosper given the club's status as a footballing 'institution'.

I dislike Manchester United more than any other club and as much as any other person, but this is for footballing reasons so I wouldn't wish any 'financial' disasters upon them as they are a beacon for English football, as are Liverpool.

In short, can the average football fan not offer their support up to the Reds of Merseyside as a national game without LFC will not be a better future for OUR/THE PEOPLES game, and this is what will ultimately happen if NESV do not gain control and Hicks/Gillett still associated with the club in any shape/way/form.

Premier League please intervene and politely ask these financial clowns to leave our game alone, it was the PL that let these monkeys buy one of the countries most prestigious clubs in the first place, now surely you can pull rank anidst this crisis!

67. At 10:49am on 15 Oct 2010, FedupwithGovt wrote:
==========================================================

what the hell do you want me to say. poor liverpool dont deserve this because they have a rich history and they also have a rich history to go along with thier history. Also the fact they have a rich history means that they should never be criticised because.. you guessed it. they have a rich history.

you feeling better now old chap. i didnt say anything bad about your club.

dont go hurling personal insults at me now like you have before

The only real loyalty in football is by the fans.Players couldn't give a toss as long as they get their wages and owners who buy to simply make a profit are no good to anybody other than themselves.Roman may have bought Chelsea as his personal hobby but he genuinely has a love for the club and wants success.This the sort of investor Liverpool need and deserve.

All the PL club fans whining about the state of English top-flight football should just consider that you support the system. If you want to make a change then just don't turn up to the games; don't buy the 7 new shirts the money-grubbing clubs release every year; don't renew your season tickets next season; unsubscribe from Sky (or at least Sky Sports anyway) and get down and support a local lower or non-league side.

As long as you blindly give your money to your clubs without question, they will laugh at you and hike up ticket prices forever. As long as you desperately seek winning at all costs, you will gladly invite crooks like G&H to come run your clubs with debt.

Complaining and moaning but not doing anything about a bad situation is the British way. Time to buck the trend if you want any real changes in this corrupt sport.

Can you lot not play nicely?

I think it's become fairly clear that neither Hicks nor Gillett will be heading the club for very much longer, however, will this have any effect on the way the fans view their owners?

Any Liverpool fan who thinks that their league position is due to mismanagement at board level is myopic. Not that non-LFC supporters are allowed to comment.

Cannot understand how anybody can defend Hicks and Gillett.

They said they would not load debt on the club - they did.
They said they would "have a spade in the ground in 60 days" - they didn't.
They said they would back the manager financially - they didn't
They made agreements with RBS re: the board and then tried renege on them
Gillett has had to surrender his stake to a third party.

From day one they have lied to and abused the club, the fans, the manager and the now the board.

Before they came Benitez won the Champions League and the FA cup, since they arrived... nothing.

They are barefaced liars whose only motive is their own personal gain.
What they are doing may be acceptable in international business, but it is not, and never will be, acceptable for an English sporting institution with tradition and deep roots in the community.

Even when they are gone they will still be trying to pick the bones of the club via lawsuits purely for their own personal gain.

Some really interesting comments on here but I see it as this...

1. Gillett and Hicks had the opportunity to run the club correcty (they didnt). They deserve to lose money because if they had run it properly they would have made some.
2. The NESV bit is the best because it is similar to other offers and NESV have a history of taking big teams (and lets face it, Liverpool are big!) and getting them back to where they belong. They also have a history of running profitable sports teams. In this instance Broughton is working as a football fan who wants the best for the team.
3. Gillett and Hicks came to make a pretty penny and know very little about footabll and football fans. Infact they are making a mockery of American owners. Now were starting to look at Americans with cynicism, however Randy Learner is doing it write. At present Hicks is not only damaging his own reputation but that of all American owners. If I were an American owner of a sports team Id be getting a bit annoyed now.
4. This of-field stuff does affect the team (im a Leeds supported) so have been through it all.
5. Those people who wish ill on players and teams are not real fans, we all have teams we dislike but for something to happen to them would be horrendous. (If Man Utd went bust and disappeared who would I hate then?). Real fans mock other teams and make silly jokes but deep down respect them.

Anyhows, as said im a Leeds fan and I think the best think would be for every Leeds fan to head up to Liverpool and give all you Liverpool fans a cuddle and say "there, there, it will be alright....it may take a few years but it everything will be ok."

Nushed

I take your point that there is a binding agreement with NESV, but i suppose what i am wondering is if by offering to repay the RBS before the deadline, Hicks and Gillett are in fact not in breach of their obligations, thereby meaning that a sale is no longer needed - The reason the pre-agreement is in place is to ensure that the sale is concluded to avoid administration (i would assume), as sales of such large companies are not done in 5 minutes before the deadline....

However, it is still Hicks and Gilletts (and seemingly Mill's) club until they are in default of the deadline. Aren't they?

So, if they (hicks and gillett) agree to pay the RBS, the RBS have to accept that, as it is surely part of the T&C. If they fail to pay them the RBS then the back up position of NESV is in place to take over the club instantly, avoiding administration. Or am i missing something?

32. At 10:11am on 15 Oct 2010, hansbohrdt wrote:
Well there was a cash buyer in the wings at 320 million who
swore blind that he was excluded from all the dealings.
No one doubted that he was genuine but he has obviously taken
umbridge at the way the three other members of the board ignored
him and his offer etc.

I think this was a second offer, upped after an original lower bid, which was turned down as the NESV bid was better and more than the orginial bid.

Thus this second bid for £320m was made when a bid had already been accepted and had all the dilligance done on it. So thats why it was turned away.

I don't understand why Mr Bond keeps making stuff up. LFC is owned by a holding company. Hicks controls 50%, Mill the other half. He doesnt need board approval as the Liverpool 3 are not directors of the Holding company. Once he sells to Mill, Mill controls the holding company and owns LFC through it. Pays off RBS and can kick off the liverpool 3. The best for NESV is civil case against the board of LFC assuming it has a binding contract. As for EPL fit and proper test, the owner of LFC hasnt changed because it is still owned by KOP holdings. Mr Bond I'd encourage you to take a course in commercial law before churning stuff up to your fans.

Perhaps if two supposedly wealthy American business bought your club, promised investment, a new stadium etc etc you would be dancing with a certain amount of joy.
----------
If I did, I wouldn't be blaming anyone other than myself and the other fans for the issues. You will never find a Billionaire willing to invest millions upon millions in your club.

The problem is that they misled the club, the banks and the fans. They have loaded the club with debt, the new stadium is a distant dream. By their current actions they have finally shown themselves for what they are - shysters. Your comment about name calling and abuse is rather wide of the mark.
----------
No it wasn't. The name calling went on in this very thread. As for the new stadium, share with Everton! What a stadium you clubs could build together. Forward thinking. Break the mould. But no, you'd rather stay in the 80s and refuse due to the backward 'rivalry' that clubs in Italy deal with and share stadia. The New Anfield project did not stay financially viable after the Recession hit. Only the deluded would ignore that fact.

Fedupwithgovt:-

There has been little constructive criticism from other fans, mainly vindictive gloating. As to 'typical Liverpool fan' - hhmmm. As to 'our year' - isn't being wildly optimistic about the upcoming season part of being a fan. Maybe you are just an armchair supporter - sounds like it.
---------
No, being wildly optimistic is a trait kept for the Premier League fan. Liverpool fans believe they have a divine right to great success, league titles and respect from others. You have none. The big question is why? Not jealousy as you are a pale shadow of your former selves. Maybe it's the attitude of the supporters? If an owner doesn't deliver billions of pounds and an expensive new stadium they'll be booed out of the club? Hodgson out? How dare the Liverpool supporters even suggest such a thing.

But hey, you deserve success - who says it has to be earned in this day and age?

Ok everyone, I think we should put club rivalrys to one side. This is a problem not just for Liverpool but for our whole game. It's not just the Premier League clubs that are suffering, the greed of the Premier League and Sky is causing all sorts of problems for clubs lower in the pyramid. The distribution of wealth is disgraceful, look how much money goes to lower league clubs and then try to calculate how minute this is compared to the money been taken by Sky, Agents, Lawyers etc.

I'm a Liverpool fan so obviously I can't stand Man Utd, but I will support them fully in getting rid of their own set of parasites. This is about so much more than club rivalry, this is about trying to save our game before it is completely stolen away from us.

Bruce Buck is a legend is quite simply a wind up merchant. For some reason he likes to go onto blogs about other teams and write the most ridiculous comments to get a rise. It's best to just ignore him, he has nothing to say of any value whatsoever.

Actually, the club is being sold way below market value. It's not just a figure G&H have pulled out of their jacksies, the club was valued by Forbes at $800mn.

70. At 10:53am on 15 Oct 2010, Bruce Buck Is A Legend wrote:
67. At 10:49am on 15 Oct 2010, FedupwithGovt wrote:
==========================================================

what the hell do you want me to say. poor liverpool dont deserve this because they have a rich history and they also have a rich history to go along with thier history. Also the fact they have a rich history means that they should never be criticised because.. you guessed it. they have a rich history.

you feeling better now old chap. i didnt say anything bad about your club.

dont go hurling personal insults at me now like you have before

-----------------------------------------------------------

I wondered how long it would take for this senseless, WUMMING pr1 ck to turn up. He doesn't take long from what I have read, especially when it comes to Liverpool (bit of an obsession, maybe?). The point is, you don't have to say anything! pointlessly coming on a board, purely to insult Liverpool FC and it's fans is just childish and immature.

And i'm not a Liverpool fan, before you start on me, although I'm sure you'll try!

Then again, maybe not, as I'm right

@26 why you getting personal for? you bitter foul mouthed individual. you got no class mate.

---------------------------

Pure comedy genius that is! I have to give you credit Bruce, for sheer persistence if nothing else, and it's clear you achieve your objective of getting a rise out of a few people on here. It's like a toddler who keeps doing something they shouldn't and then giggling to themselves. Doubt even a toddler would keep doing it day, after day, after day.....after day though....

I think when Dumb and Dumber gave up the control of the Board and engaged in a sales process, the deadline for repayment of the loans was 15/10. If not repaid by that date then the parent company COULD be put into administration. However this did not PRECLUDE a sale before that date, and that was indeed the objective and appears to be happening. The fact that Dumb appears to be trying to arrange to either refinance or get another buyer to enter the process is irrelevant unless RBS extend the deadline, in which case it would be likely though not certain the NESV sale could go through before Mill Financial are able to prove they are fit and proper owners to the PL. If he refinances and repays the loan I would suggest it is still too late because quite properly, the Board have entered into a biding sale agreement with NESV I believe.
Though with these guys and Texas law you never know what tricks they'll come up with.
I'll tell you one thing, if Hicks is representative of US business I'm starting to understand why North Korea hate them so much......

Perhaps not the most insightful comment but......Hicks' actions aren't in the least bit surprising. He is merely showing his true colours as a hard-nosed businessman who cares about nothing other than making the most money out of his investments.....end of!

"If Mill are willing to pay Hicks money for his shares and pay off the RBS then surely the deal is worth more than that being proposed by NESV? If that's the case then the board must consider the merits of the proposed sale to Mill. Or perhaps the RBS are exercising some sort of control over board members in which case they should resign having not disclosed such an interest."

Mill stand to lose the 75m they lent GG if the NESV deal goes through that is the only reason that they are sniffing around for a deal - they are trying to minimize their loss.

In theory if they gain control they could asset strip the club in an effort to reduce their loss, or sell it on to the highest bidder.

The "merits of the proposed sale" are not only financial - the long-term well-being of the club must also be considered. NESV has experience of running sports teams successfully, so they are the board's preferred choice. Hicks is only interested in the amount of money he can claw back and like a little baby who throws toys from the pram he's making a fuss because he's not getting what he wants. Boo hoo!

To add to JamTay1's "DISGUSTING" comment. Firstly, I would agree 100%. It is disgusting indeed. Secondly though, it isn't surprising really, which is even sadder. Why do I say that?
Well, the stakeholders in the EPL set out to make it the biggest league in the world. And they succeeded. But in doing so, they treated it like any other International Brand e.g. Coca Cola, MacDonalds or whatever, and the end game is simple - make as much money as possible. So tickets and TV rights etc are high, players wages are high (to attract the best) and so on. You have to say that they've done well in that regard, but as JamTay1 says, it is disgusting really because the fans suffer. But as long as enough people pay, the prices will stay high.
Furthermore, it seems to me that Messrs G&H went into this as a money making venture (why else would they have bought LFC?) and it has gone belly up, largely due to worse than expected performance by the team (which could be argued was caused by the manager who spent unwisely and didn't deliver on the pitch). Had LFC won the EPL and or CL then LFC and messrs G&H wouldn't be in this mess. The problem now is that they didn't have the money to pay off their loan and now are digging their heels in to try and minimise their losses. OF course they don't give a damn about the club, the players or the fans - only about themselves and their money.
So it isn't surprising because the people involved are greedy and motivated only by money. One difference between this and the Newcastle saga is that Mike Ashby was a fan and presumably did things in the interests of the club, to some degree at least.
It would seem that the board has signed a deal with NESV that would make a last minute sale to MF unlikely. But it also looks to me like Hicks will do everything possible to drag this out. I suspect we havent seen the last of his tricks. I reckon that he will eventually have to admit defeat, but not before he has heaped more misery on the club.
TO add to all this, the team is playing poorly and is also in a period of instability with a new manager who is getting it in the neck and a team where the star players (mainly Torres/Gerrard) are not playing well. All in all a bit sad, even for me (a Leeds fan!)

39. At 10:22am on 15 Oct 2010, SyKop wrote:
...quite plainly it has to be said, if you're not a Liverpool fan, and you have no savvy of Business or Law, or anything constructive to say, jog on you small-minded un-educated ignorant excuses for men!
We can take criticism of our club, we always have done - it's one of the reasons I love being a Liverpool fan... it's just funny hearing it from people like YOU that have limited cerebral intelligence... very humorous indeed.
-----------

I can't believe that anyone who earlier wished to see other human beings ,invloved merely with the poor running of a football club, in a car crash can then try to take the moral high ground about anything.

It is quite good stuff, actually, in a John Grisham thriller kind of way. If Hicks had shown this much stickability and flexible thinking in the interests of LFC, he would have been a massive success. I don't agree with a lot of the stuff questioning whether the club is under-valued at £300 million - it is. A business with the assets it has and the fan base it can command is only available at such a price because of the shenanigans and the failures of both Hicks/Gillette and Benitez. I also don't agree that 'this could happen to any club.' It happened because the previous owners of Liverpool wanted to cash in and chose to blind themselves to obvious dangers of loading so much debt on the club. Not all football business management operates like this - look at us; Arsenal; any one of the clubs that are not 'big' enough to attract such speculative interest.

It will take years for LFC to recover from this. Whoever comes in is not going to be chucking money at the team in the amounts needed to catch Chelsea, Man City, Spurs and Arsenal. For Man U, you tend to think this is the shape of things to come.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

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"Henry still has a binding agreement with the Liverpool board to buy the club and will take legal action here in the United Kingdom if the deal with Mill Financial goes through.

So if the board agree the sale to Mill they face a civil action from NESV for breach of contract, but if they sell to NESV everyone gets what they want and are entitled to?

Seems like a no-brainer to me."

Correction. Henry (believes) he still has binding agreement with LFC to buy the club and will take legal action in the UK if the deal with Mill Financial goes through.

So if the board agree the sale to Mill the face a contract dispute from NESV for breach of contract, but if they sell to NESV Hicks will start a civil law case in the US for damages plus NESV, and possibily RBS, will be in direct violation of a legally binding US Federal Court (read equal London High Court in this matter) order.

One on hand, NESV and possibily LFC/RBS face charges in the US, and will definitely be in court where on the other hand they could just take the money and get the sale done, relieving them of direct involvement from Hicks

You are right it is a no-brainer but not what you are suggesting

"I'm no lawyer or expert on law, but how can a US judge issue a restraining order against something happening outside the jurisdiction of his court, ie. America?"

Explained many many times already but simple really - they can't and didn't. Hicks is American, this is a civil matter - the only court that has any Jurisdiction is the District court of Texas. Any attempt to block or change that is a violation of human rights.

"I'm not sure how Hicks can win this one. Here in the UK, you can't just sell your shares in an unlisted company to anyone you fancy, at the very least the sale has to be agreed by the directors."

That is not completely true but in this case might be. Also, you mean a listed company I believe, possibly not though

In the UK, an unlisted company only has to have - "The public limited company must have at least one secretary and two directors on the board"

The catch being with an unlisted company is the owner gets to decide who those people are and has the right to replace them at his/her choosing. The court case suggest that is not exactly the case here.

"The sale is not being made below market value. The club is worth £600m and is £300m in debt. Ergo, buying at £300m is bang on right."

The sale includes the debt so by your logic the club is definitely valued at around £500m. That is probably correct as well

"surely hicks cannot simply sign over control to mill financial as in effect, they will be the new owners of the club. premier league rules state any potential change of ownership has to be put to them 10 days prior"

The FA bend the rules on a whim on a regular basis, that rule means nothing. More to the point, they have proven in the recent past to bend the rules for Liverpool when it suited (think "special dispensation Champions League" here). If the sale could go ahead and end this the FA will allow it - you can cut that into stone

"After the dust has settled and the recriminations start, will the FA deduct the points that Livepool should b deducted for being in administration- whichever way you look at it- technically they are in administration"

There is no "technically" in administration, you either are or you are not. Right now LFC are not. Watch this space but I am fairly certain it will not come to that

"Suggestions NESV are buying the club below market value are ridiculous. Firstly, there is no active market for football clubs so to suggest there is a market value at all is stupid."

Reality would suggest otherwise since they have had three potential buyers this week alone. Think you might want to reflect on that "stupid" comment

"Secondly, from what has been reported all bids made have been in the same ballpark, thus suggesting that the £300m bid by NESV is actually reasonable and is a premium on what would be offered should RBS have to step in and sell the club."

No, that would suggest that one party made a bid around that, and someone from the Board of LFC accepted it for reasons yet to be determined. So naturally all other bids came in near that because of the acceptance of the first - hence the court case....

"Why do you want Liverpool to lose this case when the High Court has stated twice that Hicks actions are unwarranted?
Or don't you believe in British justice? Or do you just hate football?
I'd love to see how you'd get on under Texas law."

Simple because the London High Court do not have jurisdiction to rule on the case in Texas nor is it moral to attempt to block it. You did not ask me but, do I believe in British Justice. Hmm what a question - I believe in the idea of the British justice system, not the current way it is being acted upon. Personally I would place my faith in the Texas Courts system over the British one anyday. These things come and go though - that is my interest in all this

"Why did the Dallas court adjourn overnight - that's what i want to know?

Yes, Hicks is unscrupulous, but it also seems that the American courts are doing everything they can to help him by buying time.

It is absolutely beyond belief and any kind of just judicial procedure."

Why did they adjourn overnight - because it was night, that is what they do. The same thing would have happened anywhere, you only think it was odd because of the kind of wording used in the BBC article. It was perfectly normal time to break. But, the answer you are really looking for - because Hicks is willing to sale the club and is looking into the specifics of a sale. It appears that is to Mills but that has not been fully disclosed yet

The American courts Judge is doing exactly what any respectable Judge would do, and that is hear the entire case and its merits. But, don't misunderstand this, he is only working in relation to an injunction, nothing more. The only thing that is "absolutely beyond belief of any kind of judicial procedure" is the way the London High Court are handling this.

But, fear not it will get sorted very soon

#78 Tjan, G&H signed a contract with RBS in return for a loan extension. They said they would sell the club and appoint board members to facilitate this. They also signed up saying they would not try and disrupt the deal. This has been tested in court and the judge resoundingly ruled in the current board/RBS's favour.

At the same time as the above, NESV made a bid and passed the PL's "fit & proper" test. The board were happy that the bid was in the interests of the club's investors. NESV subsequently signed a binding contract with the board concerning handover of LFC in exchange for paying off its outstanding debts, which makes RBS happy.

It does not matter if G&H negotiate a different deal at the last minute. If the legal board signed a deal as they were authorised to do, then that deal isn't breakable. NESV could legitimately sue and would probably win.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

At 10:28am on 15 Oct 2010, AJ_WFC wrote:

This thread is a good example of why Liverpool fans have pushed the neutral fan away. Anyone who dares to take an opposing view are called names and abused. I suppose it's not a surprise knowing the typical Liverpool fan.

Thing is, the vast majority of fans lauded the arrival of the two rich Americans. A few lone voices got shouted down. It raised hopes that for the first time in 20 years, the whole 'this is our year' rubbish would come true. Remember, Hicks, like NESV, has success with other sporting 'franchises'.

Still, we'll be doing this all again in a few years time as the latest American owner doesn't know what to do with the club and tries to sell it for a profit.

Perhaps a relegation would give Liverpool fans the same thing it gave to Newcastle fans. A healthy dose of perspective.

--------

It strikes me that the "neutrals" that you're referring to began from a position of hostility, hence the less than positive responses they've received in return.

Take SoxSexSax for example. His comment (number 7) cheering on Hicks and then insulting all Liverpool fans was nothing but a wind-up and unprovoked abuse.

I believe it's now been removed, and rightly so.

Then take Bruce Buck Is A Legend as another example, with his contribution (number 9). His comment was another wind-up and reminded me of the pro-Raoul Moat minority (remember them?), cheering on the villain just to provoke a reaction or "have a laugh".

Neither of these two people are contributing to the greater debate about Hicks's position the future of Liverpool, they're just engaging in childish activity.

True neutrals, who are asking questions about how things got the way they are or where they go now, or adding to the conversation in a meaningful way, aren't being abused, so it seems to me that you're flat out wrong.

By the way, your comment of "I suppose it's not a surprise knowing the typical Liverpool fan" suggest you're not exactly judging things with an open mind to begin with, doesn't it?

As for the rest of your comment, I believe a great many Liverpool fans were skeptical over Gillett and Hicks from the go. They made many promises, especially related to the stadium development, and failed to keep them all, so they were viewed with a great deal of suspicion from start to finish.

For others there may have been a honeymoon period, but the way that these owners conducted themselves (especially towards the Liverpool fans) did nothing but cause warning bells to ring. Time and time again, Gillett and Hicks shot themselves (and Liverpool) in the foot.

As for Hicks having successes with other teams, I think you'll find that that's far from the truth. His baseball team tanked soon after he took over, in large part due to some disastrous decisions on his part (giving a player a $252 million contract, even though the next highest bidder wasn't even within $100 million, then having to trade him away and pay for him to play for another team is the prime example), and he led them to bankruptcy, not success. He was stripped of that team this year.

Also, his ice hockey team has been in steady decline for some time now, with his financial woes crippling the team. He defaulted on a $525 million loan in which that team and its stadium are part collateral, thus putting its future in jeopardy, and at the same time the team's payroll has been slashed in order to try to save him some money.

Hicks's ownership of Corinthians, one of Brazil's most famous football teams, was also an unmitigated disaster from start to finish.

When it comes to sports, Hicks doesn't have a clue.

And while it's true that nobody can tell what the future will bring, NESV has an outstanding record and reputation with their ownership of the Boston Red Sox. Two separate sports and sports business publications voted them the best owners in all of baseball.

In every regard, Hicks and NESV are chalk and cheese.

Welcome back simple_truth i missed your ramblings ;)

Simple_truth

You claim Henry only believes he has a binding contract.

Given your exposure as an armchair lawyer, and a poor, misinformed and unashamedly bias one at that, why should anybody of sane mind on this board take your word for that over his?

Call me legally dim, but I fail to see how a sale to NESV can be forced through the high court if the ownership - represented by the actual shares - transfers to Mill prior to the deadline on the debt to RBS providing that charge to RBS is cleared. How can a board sell a company without the consent of the shareholders? This rather goes against the fundamental principles of company law and, I would maintain, suggests that the agreements that Broughton et al are relying on were established ultra vires of the board's powers.

I'm thinking appeal and an arid discussion on the nature of 'ownership' coming on. I'm sensing a fat fee.....

Tjan
The sales process - agreed by Dumb and Dumber - was for Liverpool Football Club. Not Kop Holdings I believe.
So given that a sale asap was the objective - agreed by ALL contractually - and it appears that has been achieved under a binding agreement, again agreed by the board of LFC, including Dumb and Dumber, as confirmed by a British High Court, I can't see how after the fact Dumb and Dumber can change their mind and decide refinancing/sale by MILF is now a better option, and break a legal undertaking to sell to NESV which they themselves (albeit unwillingly) entered into.
I don't think your simplified view of it is correct.

Did I say I wished death on them, no - nor serious injury, just a crash which I guess was open to interpretation. Be sure I only meant it as a shock inducing pull-back to reality for them, not their death - you fool! I am very much in touch with humanity trust me.
When this happens to Manchester United some of their fans will have similar feelings, and then some!
You make it sound like I was hanging the burning effigy of Becks after France '98...