The Hitchhiker's Guide to Encoding: Before we start

Thanks for posting Andy, looking forward to reading the rest of your reports. I really hope it answers some fundamental issues with regards to inconsistent picture quality as many non technical viewers and non geeks have noticed.
I'm still surprised that simple independent viewer test hasn't taken place, 2 identicle tv's calibrated, with playback sample of various types of programmes e.g. sports, wildlife etc affected from a HD PVR with 16mb/s and 9.7mb/s.

Thanks Andy. I'm cynical about this whole process though, it's only going to prove that the BBC line is correct and what we see in front of our eyes is wrong...

Kudos for braving your critics, Andy, I fear you're in for a lot of negative comments and you must accept that the BBC has brought much of this on itself.

As you say in your opening blog, there have been a lot of audio issues on some flagship programmes which might be excusable for a tinpot outfit operating out of a shed. But when it a corporation with the resources and experience of the BBC / Red Bee, it does seem bizarre.

It's also problematic that nobody in the broadcast chain noticed some of these issues, instead relying on you sitting at home watching TV. Mistakes and failures happen, but it strikes me that the procedure for detecting these is sorely lacking.

I know you're going to cover picture quality in a future blog, but I watched Gavin & Stacey last night (Sky HD, LG 42PQ6000) and was distinctly underwhelmed by the PQ. I've recorded the SD version and there's honestly not that much difference. Compared even to upscaled programmes on C4 and Sky1, the BBC doesn't come off well.

@Andy

Thanks for the great post. If the following posts are as candid and adopt a similar tone then I am looking forward learning a lot over the next week.

Of particular interest would be info relating to any direct comparison A/B testing of the new encoder versus the old and exactly how the Objective and Subjective tests were performed and data interpreted. I know you've probably written this article already, but is it too late to ask that images are included for illustrative purposes?

With regards audio (after all that's what this posting is about), my main comments would really be relating to a request for more programmes to go to 5.1 rather than stereo but I understand this is a decision that will be made earlier in production and is subject to budgetary constraints. 5.1 audio, for me at least, was quite a big incentive for me to 'go HD' and I suspect this is true of many others.

Again, thanks for the blog.

Thanks again.

Interesting insight Andy. Thank you.


We shouldn't forget we've living through the pioneering days of HDTV.

I've seen telerecordings from the pioneering days of SDTV where _everything_ went wrong. Tapes wouldn't play. Film inserts would break. Microphones would fail. Cameras would give inexplicably horrible pictures.

...all before the broadcasting world used PC-like equipment, giving the opportunity to _really_ mess things up!


...and while we all suffer unpredictable digital technology in our homes, we expect that used by broadcasters to be perfect. Hopefully it'll get more reliable, and human error will intrude less, over the next year.

Cheers,
David.

Just an initial 'thank you' post for this and the upcoming blog posts.

I really hope that when you cover the BBC HD picture 'quality issues' you refer to the picture quality that is expected to arrive at our TV at home and not just about internal 'studio fed TVs' - because certainly what I see now is not what WAS the 'quality HD' of over six months ago.

Looking forward then to your Monday post.

Cheers, daveac

Andy I would like to Thank You for taking the time the make a series of blog posts on various subjects of HDTV. Can you confirm who provided the Ob facilities for the rememberence service parade and also for Strictly from Blackpool ? I am surprised at nobody noticing the errors on strictly as they were operating with dual path uplinks from Intelsat and Atlantic bird if i remember correctly obviously something was wrong with the monitoring back in London and also by SIS in the HD uplink truck

Andy, thanks for this part 1, looking forward to the rest.

Thanks for starting your feedback Andy, I will be glued to you for the next week (when not watching BBC HD). Probably a good idea to split up the feedback into different sections, however it will be your comments on the poor picture quality that will be most anticipated. One sound question, is the sound level lower on HD than other channels? It seems so via my V+ box. I always have to turn up the volume. Thanks for explaining what caused the Doctor Who 5.1 problem. It might be worth checking the machine playing Gavin and Stacey, someone might have left a VHS copy in there.

I view BBC HD using a win 7 PC and media centre via XBOX360.

The audio issues for me are key - get the mistakes fixed and I'll live with the picture quality.

Far more annoying is the 20 second delay that now occurs when tuning to live or viewing recorded HD content from the new encoders. (Playback of recordings made with the old encoders is instant)

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for taking the time to post all this info.

Is there a technical reason why you can't have a computer hooked up to the sound output from a STB and the sound output from the studio output and compare the two?

If sound on the STB is silent for > 100ms and there is sound on studio output, then flag the problem.

Regards,

Gary.

Thanks for the info Andy,

I'd like to say that not everyone thinks you are involved in a great HD conspiracy, I've found your posts to be both honest and open.

I do think there is a picture quality issue but I think it pre-dates the new encoder. I'm looking forward to your post on that.

Keeping things on topic though, would let us know what the fixes for the sound issues are (when found)?

The reason I ask is because Sky suffer the same problems on their channels (SD and HD) with some content. The opening credits (1st 3 minutes) of The usual suspects always suffers a problem for example).

Due to their arrogance, they won't look into the problem even though I have recreated it at their technical support department. I hoping they'll read this and get some tips on

a) Fixing the problem
b) How to Provide a good service to their customers

Cheers,

Andy.

Dear Andy,

I look forward to your travails with interest. It's easy to forget the complexities of the new sometimes.

I think we all appreciate your engagement on something in which we all have an interest or stake.

'S'.

Thank you Andy for the detailed and candid explanation of the sound issues that have occurred over the recent months on BBC HD and the steps taken to prevent recurrence. It's reassuring to know that you personally have been hearing the same sound problems heard by the many posters on the HD blogs (i.e. we are not imagining them). I expect you can see where I am going with this. I notice there isn't a general topic on picture issues planned. Can we therefore expect to see somewhere within the next 5 topics, a similarly candid confirmation that you have also personally seen the much more frequently reported HD picture quality issues?. If not, that silence will tell a story of its own and may well overshadow what you do say.

Hi Andy,

Usual suspects showing Wed 23:55 on Indie/Indie HD.

Opening sequence as the camera pans across the water.

First prob happens while title says "brian singers film", there are some more over the next few seconds and some throughout the film.

Both SD and HD are in dolby digital, I have turned DD off on the box (to record the stereo stream) and had the same probs but I'm not sure the HD boxes record the stereo stream or just multiplex the DD

Andy,

The audio problems are just about bearable. What's not bearable is the picture quality. You must watch BBC HD at home sometimes (or is it too much of a busmans holiday?). The "it's all new technology/still experimenting" crap just doesn't wash anymore. Sky viewers have 35 HD channels to choose from and BBC HD is the only one we are having problems with. As I've said previously, if you ever watch a programme called Cold Case on Sky One, it's the softest picture of anything I watch but it's still a million times better than anything on BBC HD.

You claim you will attempt to answer us honestly, can you honestly say that when you're on your sofa at night with your feet up you can't see what we're seeing?

Sky are a long way from perfect.

The movie channels can be quite variable and suffer similar probs to the BBC HD channel (see my "Something interesting about Anytime at the moment" post on digitalspy) but let's stay away from picture for now, this blog's about the audio.

I'm new to BBC HD, having only had it installed since the new encoders. I'm not trying to be a nag, but BBC HD can't even do a fade to black properly without it doing so in 5/6 increments. Likewise with the DOG - the dog is nice, its plain - but if anything moves under it, it breaks apart and looks worse than a 1990s web video. I can understand why people are angry when they are told to their faces that there is no problem - it isn't especially bad, it's still definately a HD service. But there is still a problem, unless a memo was sent to all programme producers to not use the space where the dog is or use fades.

Thanks for the post Andy. Much appreciated and I genuinely mean that .

Looking forward to seeing a post about picture quality but i have a sneeky suspicion the usual fob off is coming our way next friday "Friday: Programme styles and closing thoughts" lol. Please dont let your hard work end with the fob off that the difference in pictures we are seeing are simply programme styles.

We can all see the quality is awful Andy. The channel is starved on bandwith and we can all see that. People have shown proof.

What would be good as well would be to hear why BBC HD uses a fixed bit rate on sky and why they do not broadcast in a higher resolution.

Also would be good to hear why you cant just admit theres been a reduction in quality and that the bandwith allocated cannott cope.

Thankyou for the post Andy. I have done a little Dolby encoding and do appreciate how complex Dolby can be. Dropouts are very annoying and it is amazing how sensitive the ear is to them. The main problem I see from the BBC is that surround sound is used so little. Most programs still seem to be in stereo so please can we have more surround sound. There is a noticable difference in sound level when switching between 5.1 and stereo and so if more programs are made with 5.1 will reduce the problem.

There is another issue with respect to audio which I am rather reluctant to raise. With Blu-ray discs we are now oftem treated to 7.1 surround sound LPCM 24bit with 96khz sampling which sounds realy great. So what I am saying here is that 384kb/s dolby is begining to sound a bit dull. Is there any way to improve the sound quality. I read in one forum that Freeview HD was using AAC encoding for the stereo sound. I suspect they may have got it wrong. I also understand that Freeview HD has droped the audio bit rates to 320 and 128 kb/s for 5.1 and stereo respectivly. Is this true?.

Although these blogs are interesting they will be useless unless they tackle 2 issues.

1) The BBC must acknowlege that the picture quality on BBC HD is unacceptable. This does imply that research needs to be done to establish a minimum picture quality which would be acceptable to say 90% of viewers.

2) The BBC must have a plan to comply with that picture quality.

The biggest failure of Ofcom was not to establish minimum quality standards on digial tv and radio. Ofcom pursude "choice" at the expense of quality and so we now have the choice of a large number of low quality TV and Radio stations. In the good old days of analogue television picture quality was assured in the signal specification. Such things as video circuit rise times and signal to noise ratios were strictly controlled. Infact analogue television produces much better overal picture quality than many digital channels.

Good evening for starters. Secondly, Andy - thank you for what will no doubt show to be a great deal of time and effort spent in responding to the discussion about various aspects of BBCHD that have come forth over the past months and for that I truly believe that both yourself, and the BBC as an institution, should be applauded.

There are both sound and PQ issues that currently affect BBCHD of which we are all aware but I thought it prudent of me as someone who has moved more to the critical angle of the channel of late to put a few things in the mind of those who seem, generally outside of these forums, to want to hit Auntie Beeb with anything they can.

I personally have had a pretty awful week all told, but this evening on the way home from our fair capital and this evening, through the wonder of the iPlayer have enjoyed about two hours' worth of some wonderful intelligent comedy from The Thick of It. It has lifted my mood a stunning amount and I thank all and sundry for it.

The comparison I would make is that my mood now is how I see BBCHD - low, fuzzy, unclear and not very vivid. The BBC is capable and has proven itself both in terms of program and radio quality to be the best in the World as it has technically.

I wholeheartedly accept Andy's comments in respect of the sound issues. Things like the DW 5.1 fiasco happen - we're human, things go wrong (hence I suppose the irony on the program it happened on). Audio is a complex issue.

So is PQ. And I sincerely hope that the same honesty about sound comes through with PQ. Not wanting to stray off topic, but Andy you have outlined the differences between broadcast and receipt in respect of sound - could the same be true in picture and if so, surely you're seeing the same as the rest of us? Here's hoping.

Just one final thought. A few years ago, the BBC One announcer told us that the BBC had its own Christmas present for us in the shape of the first Christmas Dr Who. This year we're promised an absolute treat.

Please Auntie - don't break it. Make it all work as it should and make Sky look once more at the BBC as to how things should be done as opposed to the other way round. That'll do for me for Christmas.

"After a bit of investigation we discovered someone had routed one of the server ingest video tape players to another area and changed the audio replay options to a non-standard mode.."

That is SO "IT Crowd"... I love it...

I did notice audio being out of synch on the Tennis . It did not even register on
my Annoyance scale of 0-10 because I recognised it as a technical glitch which would be put right at source and so it was. I expect a few teething troubles with a new system and make allowances for it.
I'm using a Panasonic SC-PT860 5.1 Audio system. It was not expensive and I didn't expect much from it but was very pleasently surprised.
The 5.1 adds another dimension to the enjoyment of a program and I should like
more programs to have it if possible.

One Audio related issue is the HD adverts , (the shark, etc ) they are much louder than the programs either side- is it the transmision or my kit? I'm not technical so I have no way of knowing. But it only occurs on the HD channel when routed through the SC-PT860. and it's that loud I have to turn it down , making the next program too quiet so Then I turn it up again only to get caught by the next advert.
Overall i'm pleased with the audio, looking forward to the post on monday.

Andy, thank you for finally providing us with your long-awaited Blog and, of course, I've no qualms about you quoting my name in it. I think that the serialisation is a very good idea, by allowing people to comment on specific topics the BBC HD team will be able to see at a glance which of them is of most concern to its viewers (I'm suspecting that next Thursday's will provoke most comment, but we'll see).

I'm pleased too to note that, thus far, you've been candid and devoid of (The Thick of It, and dare I say POV, style) spin in your Blog. I know that you've already written the other installments but my hope is that they will continue this trend. I'm also hoping that your closing thoughts will be able to placate those of us who have seen, with our own eyes, a deterioration in picture quality on the channel recently, giving us a vision for the future of HD television from the Corporation and, perhaps, some confidence that significant improvements are in the offing in the nearer term.

Moving onto the first topic of sound, I personally seem to have missed all of the programmes where you have highlighted that there have been sound issues. Never-the-less, I note that there have been quite a few problems and appreciate that you are doing your best to eliminate such human errors from the delivery of the channel's audio element.

Actually, the sound is a very important aspect of the overall HD experience to me; as a latecomer to HD television, my viewing equipment is a bolt-on to an already existing high-quality audio set-up. For this reason, I have been disappointed during the last year by how few programmes seem to be transmitted in DD 5.1. It's particularly frustrating to turn on a long-awaited serialisation to find that it's just being transmitted in stereo (Top Gear, Little Dorrit, etc.).

I do note the complexities involved in the delivery of 5.1 to which your Blog alludes, particularly for live programming, and I'm sure that the added cost is a limiting factor, however, I urge you and the enitire team to try to make 5.1 the channel's norm and not the exception. I agree with John's post above, that the adverts come out very loud in comparison to the programmes. I think this is particularly pronounced when the before/after offerings are just in stereo, so the ideal solution for me would be to have the audio quality of everything on the channel matching the power and impact of these inserts.

Enough said, the Barbarians match is just coming on sadly only on BBC 1 - although that's a topic for another day! Best Regards, Paul.

The main issue I have with these blogs Andy is doing is that the main issue we are all unhappy with is Picture Quality. I dont really care about the history of HD to be honest and the fobs offs that will be coming with that.

All I want is Andy to Admit the quality just is not good enough and to tell us they are going to sort it. Sadly that doesnt look like its coming.

Just be HONEST (wow big word for BBC HD) and admit theres an issue. Admit the bandwith is not good enough but be brave enough to admit BBC HD dont care if thats the truth.

The issue must be resolved and fast because people look at BBD HD and its staff and laugh. Thats not having a go but a fact. To quote a member of staff at a local electrical store, "BBC HD must have junior school children running the channel".

Its nice to have nice big blogs to try and divert us from the big issue, but sooner or later someone is going to have to accept some responsibility and face up to some home truths.

If no one at BBC HD cares, then can I ask why they work there??

Can I also just ask Andy what he feels about all the upscales currently been shown??

Do you not feel everything should be in HD???

Andy states

"The BBC HD channel is two this weekend and in that short time we have developed one of the widest ranges of programmes you could find anywhere in a single HD package "

BBC HD does not broadcast a wide range of programmes. It transmits very few films and almost zero sport. In any case Sky 1 HD has a wider range programmes. Sky has 35 HD channels each related to a different gendre of programme. BBC HD is a very small player in the UK HD scene with just 9 hours of programmes each day many of which are repeats.

Straying off-topic for a second, #29, Trevor - of course I'm in complete agreement with you on all of that. There is not nearly enough Sport or film and, quite honestly, the Barbarians match I just enjoyed should have been on BBC HD, despite its problems, because the PQ on BBC 1 was an absolute disgrace.

How the BBC can expend so much licence payer money on delivering the content whilst expecting the viewing public to put up with that sort of final picture quality is beyond me. I can honestly say that I was more satisfied back in 1973, for that memorable match on the last occasion the Barbarians won, with the analogue picture on our then newly rented colour TV.

It is still beyond me why BBC cannot simply tranmit HD at a higher bit rate and resolution. Is this blog going to answer this simple question?

HD is all about the highest quality. It has no reason to exist if it doesnt provide that. I can watch the programme already in reasonably SD quality.

Honestly, as I have a full Sky HD subscription, I watch virtually no BBC output other than that on BBC HD - apart from the news.

Please, if you are going to force me to pay my licence fee just to watch one channel, at least have the decency to broadcast it in the highest quality that anything labled HD deserves.

Other broadcasters can do it, and do it right. Come on BBC get it right too.

Many thanks Andy for your 'Opening' blog on the various issues affecting BBC HD, and thanks also for, finally, acknowledging the problems during Strictly Come Dancing from Blackpool.

Sadly, tonight, we also have vision issues affecting Strictly in the form of repeated horizontal green, (and other colours), lines across the screen.

What caused this?

#post 33 jtemplar wrote:-

'Sadly, tonight, we also have vision issues affecting Strictly in the form of repeated horizontal green, (and other colours), lines across the screen.

What caused this?'

Yes I had those lines - I'd thought it was a Taxi or some car passing causing interference!

I will say that earlier tonight Doctor Who 'Dreamland' looked good - although I've read in a few forums tha a 'cartoon' or 'animation' is less demanding of bit-rate - still it did look good so thank you for that.

Cheers, daveac

Gavin and Stacey tonight, total loss of sound for at least 5 minutes, gave up and switched over after a while. Lets face it you don't watch that program for the picture quality! Sorry Andy sounds problems continue. (BBC HD via Virgin)

Just want to thank Andy and the rest of the tech team for giving us many upscales again today, what I dont understand tho is you are giving us lots of upscales recently yet there is no Simulcast channel, why is this??

Why can't people concentrate on sound issues with this blog?

Is it really so difficult to wait a few days until the picture blog is published?

#37, @vism fair point, but in defence of myself and others the overalll heading for the Blog is: "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Encoding: Before we start" and this first installment is entitled: "Opening and audio issues", so I think it fair that people address both the opening comments and ethos of the Blog, as well as audio issues, on this first one.

In defence of my own meander at #30, which Nick objected to, I have to say firstly that I was hopping mad, after the match yesterday, that my enjoyment had been spoiled by vast quantities of the sort of PQ defects that are currently spoiling our HD viewing. Then I wanted to make the point, while it was fresh in my mind, in a Blog that I knew Andy would be likely to be reading.

On reflection though, and why I raise it again now, I don't actually believe it is off-topic nor unrelated to the Audio issues that Andy has described. He has made it clear, in the section of this Blog, entitled "The Holes at the End of the Chain", that several Audio problems have got through the safety nets because they are at our end of the chain, i.e. the STB.

He even reiterated it himself when he added a comment to say: "On several occasions including the now notorious Eurovision Song Contest 1.0, the audio in Television Centre, Red Bee and Siemens was perfect. The error occurs in the STB and a quick listen to off air may miss an intermittent error (the holes), or catch a section of audio that's OK (Strictly).. "

Now, I relate this exact scenario to yesterday's rugby match. I'm certain that the TV Director, perhaps sitting in an OB truck at Twickenham with a top-notch monitor, almost directly connected to the cameras, thought that his/her picture was perfect. Perhaps elsewhere within the BBC, other Executives, watching on equally high quality equipment and connectivity felt the same.

Meanwhile, back at home, the viewer, just like those experiencing audio holes in other programmes, is watching what is coming out of the STB with steam coming out of their ears because the pictures at that end of the chain are ruined by macro-blocking, posterisation, etc. to the extent that he/she can't read the numbers on the players' shirts, see the players' faces, nor sometimes even the ball.

Like the audio issues, shouldn't the BBC be accountable for these problems too? Or, are we to expect that so long as the transmission leaves the OB truck in my example picture perfect, or in Andy's example leaves Television Centre, Red Bee or Siemens audio-hole free, then the BBC has done its job? Personally, I think not and I would hope that Andy agrees. I hope too that Nick and vism accepts my explanation for straying a little.

Sorry to stray a little but just want to say that contrary to ealier posts at #33 and 34, I saw no horizontal lines during SCD. In fact I thought the PQ was quite good, much more like I expected when I decided to go to Freesat and which has been so sadly lacking on previous programmes.

I, like others, am more concerned with PQ issues, but just to confirm that I agree that there were horizontal lines during SCD, but only momentary. Also, to stay on topic, a couple of short audio "holes" and some white noise issues, which nobody here has mentioned, but noted on another thread. Just as clarification, my audio is straight from the TV stereo speakers, and not through any external 5.1 setup.

Although it's good to have Andy's long awaited comments, everything points towards "there's no problem, it's all in your imagination, we're not changing anything, you're all geeks" as the outcome of the PQ. Why not deal with the most important and controversial issue first?

Well I too also saw the horizontal lines on SCD, they were to be clearly seen and looked like a transmission fault to me.
I have also just seen the second Gavin & Stacey on BBCHD.
Hullo Andy, no way was that 'stunning' HD. One wonders whether any of the high-ups actually sit at home and watch this stuff. If they did, they would see what we are all seeing, below par HD.

Yes, I saw them too. Recorded by my Humax PVR. There was a burst
at the end of the continuity announcement before the show, and about three or four more instances during the first 30 mins or so. Looked to me like a problem with the HD-SDI stream, and not anything at MPEG coding level.

Stop imagining things.

Re: Danielle's POV HD PQ Response, #517 @rmgalley. If you're reading this one, don't be put off from registering your comment over on Danielle's Blog. These HD PQ Blogs get so busy that when they reach 500 comments they slide over to a new page. To reach it you have to find the tiny "Next" button just underneath post 500, LHS. Press it and you'll find your comment, along with the other 16 on the new page. Be quick though, Nick will be closing it soon.

I wasn't watching SCD but also saw lines as mentioned above and a very short sound drop out during "the thick of it" later in the evening.

I also caught the end of "Mitchell and Webb" Last evening...Im sorry Danielle & Andy but no way was that HD.

Re 34 & 41 - Green and Grey horizontal lines across the screen on 'Life' just now.

A strange problem for Andy to consider, I've seen (heard) occasional strange problems on the BBC HD audio for some time. The dolby audio goes all chipmunk for the whole duration of certain programmes, squeaky voices, motor boating noises in the background. I don't have standard freesat gear so haven't made a proper complaint but this seems like the right place to mention it, perhaps odd corner cases like this can help uncover other problems.

I'm playing recordings of BBC HD on a PlayStation 3, (transport files) the recordings are made with MythTV a software PVR system. That said it's a consistent problem that keeps re-appearing. I first heard it on the final episode of Torchwood Children of Earth, all other episodes were fine. When I recorded the re-run, same problem, only on the final episode, I've since had it on Montezuma (went to watch it as Andy said the PQ was so good) and all episodes of Last Chance to See. Nothing lately but I've had this both pre and post new encoders. Oh and the recordings play fine until the dolby switch at the start of the programme and normality is resumed after the switch at the end of the programme, I checked. I have a surround sound amp and the effect is the same whether the PS3 decodes the dolby or the amp does, was hoping that would be a fix.

If I make a bluray of these recordings (remux not re-encode) then all is fine again, in fact this is the only way I was able to watch Last Chance to See.

Of course the problem is almost certainly Sony's fault although it has persisted through many many firmware updates where lots of other issues have been fixed. Perhaps Andy can find out if there is something in common between these shows, maybe some ingest setting like the recent Doctor Who problem?

AndyQ: Many thanks for the first if many.

1. Please try to increase the use of 5.1 DD sound, it does make a difference
2. Will you be explaining your use of the term "unsustainable" bit-rate?
3. Please consider a new blog where your team lists the problems they have detected and are investigation. I accept there will be problems and I am very happy to wait for your team to fix them; what dismays me is when the BBC HD seems to be saying "what problem".

I'm only able to receive BBC and ITV HD. ITV HD is next to useless as a service. However, I'd love to know if Sky have similar problems with the transmission of their HD output ? How is their 5.1 sound, lip-sync, and picture quality generally ?

Knock Knock is there anyone there!!!!!

Green lines on Antiques Roadshow and Small Island tonight.

Is anyone on duty tonight or have they all gone down the pub.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to Encoding:

https://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1323/bbchd1.jpg

Encode that Slartibartfast!

Just as we thought BBC HD couldn't get any worse with its lack of definition, blocking and sound problems the dreaded green lurgy strikes our screens. No doubt Danielle will tell us green horizontal lines are deliberate and they are a filmic effect. Well I hate to tell you this Danielle the lines have to be virtical to be filmic. May be the editor was so drunk that he was laying on his side when he added the effect.

Green lines and sound dropouts on Top gear tonight.

Didn't think the audio was very clear either (even for stereo/pro-logic), vocals drowned out by background noise such as the audience.

It's a little concerning that most of the "problems" seem to happen at weekends - remember the SCD problems? The night of Dr. Who and the launch of TG? Now we have both picture and sound issues again over a weekend.

I have to ask, does anyone at TVC pay attention to what gets transmitted, by looking at off-air rather than what is going out? Is it all within the remit of Red Bee to spot and report/rectify these problems when they happen? If it is, I hope Andy has been involved in a "full and frank exchange of views" with them this morning.

Maybe it is time to bring presentation and playout back "in house"?

@NickReynolds - Your "off topic" alarm is probably sounding, but I can't think where else to post - this is the most current...sorry :-)

Andy, are you still transmitting stereo only on the dolby digital 2.0 transmissions or are you now multiplexing a surround channel to create an old style dolby surround transmission for decoding with pro-logic?

Re: 56

Thanks for your understanding, Andy.

I'd love to be fly on the wall when the discussion takes place - to my mind there are too many errors especially during evenings and at weekends and it seems to be getting worse, not better. The BBC of old would not have tolerated the same faults on consecutive programmes, let alone days!

Many thanks Andy for your multiple responses and updates - this feels more like what a blog should be like, particularly in these times of rapid technological change, rather than the 'write and run' we so often see elsewhere.

Why do I have a vision in my head of a £10 desk van pointed at an expensive piece of vision mixing kit? :-)

I've actually had visions of a fan-heater pointing in the direction of the desk by someone who "felt a little chilly" on Saturday evening...

Is this mixer new?

Good to get your feedback Andy very refreshing to know there is somebody from the BBC reading these Blogs apart from Nick.
Please keep it up when you can.

Andy,

Was the Top gear studio stuff recorded as stereo or 5.1 surround?
It was transmitted as dolby 2.0 and I'm still wondering why Clarkson's voice was low (rare I know) compared to the audience noise.

If it was recorded in 5.1, what defines how much centre channel is muxed into the stereo audio. Do you have gain controls for that?

Hi Andy,

Don't forget The usual suspects tonight. I'm recording the HD and SD.

Both suffered problems on my recordings

Andy - Dr Who on Christmas Day was in Dolby Digital 5.0 instead of 5.1!

Is this programme jinxed or what?!

Can you sort it out for part two?

(Thought I'd post this hear, previously posted in Danielle's last blog, in retrospect a more appropriate place for it)

Re the sound drop outs that people were experiencing on Doctor Who.

I watched this as a recording played back on a Humax Foxsat-HDR with sound through a Denon AVR-1910 amp. I didn't notice any sound drop outs at all. However the following day after runing the audyssey setup on the amp I noticed that if 'dynamic eq' was switched on I did get a sound drop out. This was in the scene where the master was being brought back to life and his wife through the potion in, just as the explosion was finishing the sound would cut out briefly before it cut to a shot of the doctor in the tardis. Don't know how all of you are listening but maybe this is something to go on as I keep hearing about sound drop outs but don't seem to experience them myself. Maybe I'm not watching the right programmes! Incidently my normal viewing\listening kit is a Sky+ HD box and Marantz SR6003 amp.

Kept a note of the sound drop outs last night during the repeats and new episode of Doctor Who. Three during 'Planet of the Dead', two during 'Waters of Mars', two during 'End of Time' part 1 and one during 'End of Time' part 2. How long have these problems been ongoing now? I can't beleive the BBC haven't got on top of them yet. At least we had the correct audio this time, even if it was only DD5.0

Just watched part1 of Doctor Who. Picture quality was good but Audio was DD5.0 as mentioned above ** but DD5.1 was flagged as The Master was resurrected and then returned to DD5.0 at the end of that scene and remained for the rest of the programme **. However, my sub was (marginally) active even when 5.0 was flagged!?

I guess HBO must have a much larger budget as True Blood & Generation Kill sounded amazing on 4hd. No sign of drop-outs or flagging issues either. How can a struggling Channel4 get it right and the 'mighty' BBC can't??

AndyQ, can you please explain to us why the channel continues to have so many issues with audio? I am genuinely interested so a response would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Andy, since Nick has directed sound issues here, I wondered if I was the only one who experienced a 1 second (ish) audio drop-out on at least two occasions during tonight's Top Gear, and a similar number in the immediately following Wallander programme. Most, perhaps all, were accompanied with a resultant, following, lip-synch issue which, as described in my other report about the Xmas Day Dr Who sound here: https://bbc.kongjiang.org/www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/12/bbc_hd_christmas_schedule.html, was resolved by flicking over the channel, then back. One drop-out, during the Nissan road test seemed to cause a blotchy, purple horizontal line to appear and stay on the screen immiediately after. This wasn't resolved by flicking the channels, and needed a complete reboot of the Freesat box to get rid of.

Hi Paul, I watched Top Gear this evening and didn't spot any drop-outs. I didn't see/record Wallander (is it a new series or repeat of the first?) and no drop-outs on ep1 of Doctor Who for me. Yet to watch ep2.

#76, it's Series 2; last night - Faceless Killers (89 minutes)

1/3. Wallander investigates the brutal slaying of an elderly couple at an isolated farmhouse.

Damn. I had assumed they were repeats - this is BBCHD after all. Hopefully it will be on Virgin Media HD iPlayer.

Better mention something about audio otherwise this post will be removed. I was disappointed that Hustle was only in Stereo tonight. Great episode though!

No sound drop-outs on ep2 of Doctor Who. Still flagged as DD5.0 but a nice surround mix - particularly the score-bleed. Good PQ and a great ending to David Tennant's tenure.

Hello Andy,

Welcome back. I'm normally more concerned about picture rather than sound quality, but I see that is being well covered on another blog at the moment. So, can you just go over #80 again please? Are you saying that henceforth BBC HD will for the most part be broadcasting in 5.0 (that is, when it's not 2.0)? If so, is this a change of policy? And I'm struggling to understand what you mean by "most domestic systems use the sub for LF not the LFE channel". Surely you aren't saying they ignore the .1 information, are you?

Thanks.

Hi Andy,

I would have thought most people with a 5.1 setup will have a decent one, and those with satellite speakers will be in the minority.

HD Programmes coming from the USA being broadcast on Sky all seem to be 5.1 not 5.0, in fact Dr Who is the first time I've ever noticed 5.0!

Gary

#84 Andy, "I leave the choice of 5.1, 5.0, 4.0 and 2.0 to programme makers"

that's a shame and somewhat surprising to me. Considering the very stringent standards the BBC enforce for programme makers regarding HD video content, I'd have thought there would be similar minimum standards for Audio for HD programmes. Particularly so with Archiving requirements and also the Blu-Ray Export Markets in mind, even if you are not so concerned over the broadcasts to UK Licence payers.

Most people who've emailed me on the "other" issue, who've described their systems to me (and most do), have mentioned routing their audio through an AV Amp and 5.1 Speaker system - I certainly do myself. The Audio on US shows such as Madmen, for example, is superb.

Hi Andy,

Did you get to look at the problem with The usual suspects?

BBC HD audio has been fine of late so I guess you've cracked it.
If you do talk to Sky at any point, please let them know the issues you've had and how they were fixed (or post them here and I will send them to Sky).

Thx.

# 84, Andy Quested, 'I leave the choice of 5.1, 5.0, 4.0 and 2.0 to programme makers.' #86, 'All the options are available on all formats and the choice of the number of active audio channels will always be a production choice.'

This strongly implies that what the programme is recorded in is what will be broadcast. Yet I understand that Blu rays of HD programmes are sometimes issued in 5.1 where the broadcast is 2.0. Can you explain this apparent contradiction?

At last DD5.1 on sporting event where BBC are the host broadcaster. Keep up the good work as the mix so far has beean excellent. Can we look forward to similar for the six nations et all?

Dear Andy, thanks for your quick reply. So, just to be crystal clear, are you saying that you broadcast the programme as it comes to you? You never downmix it? I've just got an eye on that 'may' in your answer.

Thanks.

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The new series of Doctor Who was in 5.1 instead of the previous 5.0, and sounded pretty good to me. Good to see more and more content appearing in 5.1.

Andy any chance of a fresh blog post sometime to give us an update on all things technical with BBC HD? Anything interesting about the Freeview HD stream would be good too.

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