Brown looks to Obama for consensus

Nick:
At a breakfast hosted by the Wall Street Journal, Gordon Brown will hope to persuade bankers - not to mention the paper's new owner Rupert Murdoch - to back his ideas for increased financial regulation, an end to tax havens and further action to stimulate the economy. I hope that the breakfast meeting....Will allow many ideas about the financial sector and how to rebuilt it to the fullest of its ability...

~Dennis Junior~

Nick Robinson:
The prime minister goes to Wall Street this morning on the latest leg of his tour to build what he calls a "global consensus for global change". I hope that Gordon Brown, Prime Minister of United Kingdom will be able to make a dent into the "tour" around the World, regarding the Global Consensus for global change....

~Dennis Junior~

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Will Gordy prefer Obama's advice to the Governor's? Yes, of course, because Fat Gordy is the sad slave of everything that America says. America told him that banking deregulation was good - so he brought it to Britain, with the results we all know now. Whether it's financial services, or fighting wars, or torturing prisoners... Gordy is always at the service of his American masters. Off to America again today... he's forgotten which country he's PM of anyhow.

If BO is behind the 'Global Consensus', why is Brown going to America at our expense to get support for a package which already has the heaviest backing?

.....oh wait, hang on... yep it's Blair's old trick isn't it. Bad news here, be somewhere else.

This is really going to be a long drawn out wait for the election isn't it?!

Brown cannot afford another stimulus? WE cannot afford another stimulus. Brown is a deranged spendaholic. He must go.

I fear we can rely on Brown to do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons and the consequences will be tragic.

If old red tooth elects to further spend his way into an election the result will be hyper-inflation to follow.

At least he's consistent. Every UK Labour government has wrecked the economy. The country needs to stop believing the something for nothing nonsense they spout.

Easier said than done when they have engineered a block vote of millions who depend on hand outs from cradle to grave.

Nick,

This blog tells us nothing new. We know all this.

Since Breakfast news only found time to show Gordon arriving in the US looking "statesman-like" and a piece on a "smelly sneeker' competition being held in America, I thought that BBC web and blog coverage might give some reaction to Daniel Hannan demolition of Gordon yesterday.

i.e.

- What was Gordon's reaction to Hannan?

- What do politicians in other countries think - given Gordon is about to chair a G20

Instead we hear that Gordon is going to try and appear "unruffled" today - business as usual then. He'll be ignoring reality and sounding passionate about the fantasy construct of the world that he has built in his mind.

Give me strength....... if not a competent news service.

Strange how your criticism of the tories policies around fiscal stimulus are now coming back to haunt.

Instead of Labour spin Nick - can we have some real journalism - like, why was the governor of the BoE at the palace?

Its going to be interesting to see how brown and darling handle this in the coming days and at the budget - we had no money left when they created the fiscal stimulus and now he's wanting more - is this all a cunning plan to screw England and devolve scotland?

Nick,

First off, why are we paying for Gordon to fly to New York to talk to the papers? Doesn't the Wall Street Journal have a correspondent in London that he could call into Downing St an awful lot cheaper?

Secondly, both you and the BBC Tv and Radio News failed to mention the caveat that Obama put on his support for more stimuli....he said 'for those who can afford it'. We can't...Merv says so.

"At a breakfast hosted by the Wall Street Journal, Gordon Brown will hope to persuade bankers - not to mention the paper's new owner Rupert Murdoch - to back his ideas for increased financial regulation, an end to tax havens and further action to stimulate the economy."

Maybe Brown will find support for "his" ideas, many of which seem to have been generally proposed elsewhere. (Brown didn't like an EU approach that would have impacted on London's financial institutions...)

I'd suggest that it is the EFFECTIVENESS, not the quantity of regulation that makes a difference.

Brown created the UK's tri-partite arrangement. His creation - the FSA - has admitted it was pretty ineffective and didn't look at underlying factors within a so-called booming sector.

Brown told the BoE to pursue an inflation target which excluded house prices. The BoE has admitted that, had the impact of housing inflation been included in the target they had to monitor, they would inevitably have done things differently.

Brown bragged to the Finance leaders that his "light touch" regulation allowed them to blossom (although the flowers appeal to wilt and smell pretty bad right now).

So why exactly would "global leaders" fall in behind Pied Piper Brown?

It's been clear that a lot of leaders (certainly in the EU) think he let the UK's economy grow on the back of a credit bubble, with minimal control over what finance "innovators" - who he lauded - were doing in the City.

No surprise there. It was obvious even to people in the UK who found that their children had little hope of climbing on the property ladder, because wild LENDING (i.e. financial profligacy) allowed prices to soar.
Brown's team still seem to think it was "simply demand" that made that happen. NOT true. House prices have dropped by 20-odd percent. Does that mean that 20percent less people want to buy? Nah. Just that so much money was hosed over the demand-side that there was no "finacial logic" in selling prices on the supply-side.

Meanwhile, viable tangible-asset-based companies can't access finance to sustain normal business.

And Yvette Cooper runs around the Ministries, trying to get them to cut costs - while saying that the naughty Tories would cut costs and THEREFORE cut services. What happens to people in government? The can't all be born with Common-sense Absence Syndrome"? Can they?

As I've said many times before - it's all about perception. If the public actually think GB is doing something, he might, just might, increase his rating in the polls. Cosying up to Obama will give him the kudos he craves.

As for me, I think it's just more posturing. I wonder who's looking to the ranch here while he's away? He'd better watch his back.

Hi Nick,

"It's a consensus which, after yesterday's comments by the governor of the Bank of England, appears to elude him at home."

By "home" I presume you mean the UK, Germany, France, Spain, etc. Or perhaps you mean the Bank of England, European Central Bank, IMF, CBI, Institute of Fiscal Studies, etc.

Pretty soon you are going to have to start reporting that, apart from the USA, Brown is completely isolated. And conditions in the USA are entirely different, of course, and their stimulus has a different basis.

See you in the pub.

Nick, you say

"What are the other ways? Monetary policy - in the form of lower interest rates and quantitive easing.

The political problem with those measures for Gordon Brown is that the Tories support them too, so he cannot presently use them to create his much favoured "dividing lines" with the opposition."

Is this not typical Gordon Brown. It's the Politics first, from the moment he wakes, until the moment he goes to bed. What is best for the country always comes second to what is best for Brown.

so, who should we pay most credence to? ... the new superstar of global politics or a Glorified Bean Counter? ... mmm, let me see

Brown already raises more than enough in tax for a government to run this country properly.

That he is incapable of using it to do so is entirely a reflection on his own abilities.

He is a spending addict whos hunger for money will never be sated.

The less additional damage he does between now and being thrown out to take his place in history as the most disasterous PM of all time the better.

Everything he does causes more damage and fails to deliver.

Massive loans to bring forward public works? Well we have the massive new debt, but public works are being cancelled - what has Brown done with the money that we will be paying off for generations to come?

It was a bad idea all along - but to fail to get any benefit from the debt is disastrous - not a problem for Brown with his PMs pay package and gold plated pension etc. but for the average british citizen.

Is this tour then simply Brown dashing around the world trying to push support for an idea that many are abandoning?

So really it is a flight of panic?

Note the difference.

Obama is seen to not be concentrating on foreign affairs at a time of a great national issue

Brown has his third trip abroad inside a month for greater foreign action at a time of a great national issue (that started in the US and he has nothing to apologise for)

NuLabour has spent 12 years passing "terror" legislation, so lets see how they now handle the G20 protests.

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"for those that can afford it"......... you can bet that GB will ignore that part of Obama's speech. Once again as the UK falls apart he is swanning around the world trying to look like a statesman....I would like to know the real opinion of the G20 leaders on GB's performance as finance minister and prime minister... Why to i get the feeling that behind the polite behaviour they are all laughing behind his back. You only have to see Obama's body languege when in GB's presence to understand he is no fan.

The people who post on here seem to believe they speak for the majority. Not so, the poll issued this morning tells us that 50% of people in the UK believe the most important thing to come out of the G20 should be agreement on fiscal stimulus to kickstart the global economy. Incidentally, Mervyn King did not say no more borrowing, he said there was room for responsible borrowing. The Conservatives popping up on all tv programmes insisting his comments mean 100% support for them just come over as opportunistic and cheap. This is not the right time to talk the country down when Gordon Brown is doing his utmost to achieve consensus. If anybody is seeking to advance themselves with complete disregard for the good of the country, it is the Conservative party.

I am no fan of Gordon Brown, but that looks like a very politically chosen picture, not very BBC

There is no consensus on stimulus in the US either, while there is one in France and Germany that is don't throw good money after bad.

Re the US, a highly-recommended paper by 4 economists including Taylor who devised the Taylor interest-rate-setting rule argues that the analysis of fiscal stimulus by the US government is flawed and the effectiveness of stimulus will likely be much smaller than (democratic) politicians say it will be.

Mr Obama's chief economic adviser, Miss Romer, uses an old keynesian economic model to demonstrate the effectiveness of the Obama stimulus. Hence her analysis does not take reactions by thinking citizens who fear taxes will have to go up into account (her model does not encompass 'rational expectations').

Moreover, Miss Romer in her analysis assumes real interest rates will stay zero forever, which if there is any substantial recovery will prove highly inflationary.

The paper argues that on the basis of a state-of-the-art new keynesian economic model the benefits of stimulus will be rather small and only last for a brief period.

The paper is called

New Keynesian versus Old Keynesian Government Spending Multipliers

and can be easily found on the web (the BBC won't post the link because it is a link to a pdf)

Do keep in mind that the Ernst and Young Item Club forecast for the UK's budget deficit at 12.6% for next year hardly includes any extra 'discretionary' stimulus over and above the automatic stabilisers of higher unemployment benefits spending and lower tax revenues.

In other words, Mr Brown is not adding much of a stimulus because he can't afford to. That's the consequence of baking a structural deficit into the government's finances after running a budget deficit of almost 3% in 2005/6 when the economy was growing above trend.

Well Nick, what really annoys me at the moment when the commentariat interview Brown, is that he is never pinned down and held to account for blowing all the dosh during the good times. I would love for once to hear an interviewer ask him plainly and simply why he was deficit spending during the good times in direct contravention of the advice of Keynes, who wanted surpluses to be built up during periods of growth to help us weather recessions - something Brown signally failed to do. So ask him and keep asking him why he blew all the dosh during the good times, and ask him until he is embarrassed into giving some sort of answer!

Brown looks to Obama but I thought this was no time for a novice. Also why is he looking to America where according to Brown the financial crisis started. Is that not like asking a thief to steal from you again.

Gordon Brown borrowed in the good times. He is now borrowing in the bad times.

When, if ever, does he think is a good time to NOT borrow?

As a person who has struggled with various addictions, I was wondering if we can set up some sort of intervention for the poor man?

Still waiting for an Excel table with the following column headers:

Column 1 header: Banks That Have Collapsed
Column 2 header: Tax Haven That Caused Collapse

In can fill out column 1:
-Alliance and Leicester
-Bradford and Bingley
-HBoS (which hused to be ran by ex Brown ally Crosby)
-RBS (which used to be ran by Badloss whi advised the govenment well into February 2009)
-Northern Rock (where government adviser Wanless (quite ironic phonetically!) used to be on the board)
-London Scottish Bank
-Dunfermline and a few other building societies

Given all the rubbishing of tax havens it should be easy for Brown to fill column 2 but I suspect it will stay empty.

The same would apply to other potential column headers like 'Shadow Bank' or 'Ran Into the Ground by the US'.

"At a breakfast hosted by the Wall Street Journal, Gordon Brown will hope to persuade bankers - not to mention the paper's new owner Rupert Murdoch - to back his ideas for increased financial regulation, an end to tax havens and further action to stimulate the economy."

I can't see Murdoch being in favour of scrapping tax havens, he would have to pay tax!!

What Brown needs to do is stop telling everyone else what to do and start running an efficient government, something he has never got a handle on with his habit of over complicating everything he does.

We need a government that doesn't have an urge to interfere in every part of the citizen's life.

I sense a subplot here. Brown is going to try make sure the Americans are onside for boosting IMF funds, then he is going to go to them and borrow it all back so the next time Governor King says "Oh no you can't", Brown can say "Oh yes we can" - Is it pantomime season already?

There was consensus that some level of stimulus package was needed - but these things take time to work and we just don't know if it has - so being hyper active and doing it again just looks a bit like panic (not a good trait in a leader ..)
And its instructive that the consenus now is 'only if you can afford it' and all Mervyn King is saying is that the UK can't
Why? because of the deficit spending in the book times
So while the theory is may be good we just don;t have the money - 12% of GDP budget deficit ! Whereas Australia and Brazil for example have big surpluses to help their boosts without raising debt
This may be unpalatable but one way or another we will have to pay for the approach taken by the goverment over the last 10 years .. we will not be able to avoid this eventually and if GB thinks thinks this will postpone the inevitable long enough to get him elected then he is deluded

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I'm over in Oz right now - you may not have noticed Kevin Rudd just went to meet the man Obama today

The difference in Obama's treatment was rather obvious - they clearly built up a rapport and even ran on a whole ten minutes! It was a marked difference from the arm's length he kept from Brown, even though all three are of a similar political persuasion

I don't think there's any doubt now that Obama was deliberately keeping his distance from the doomed one

How is it that Brazil can have a $200 billion reserve whereas Britain has a national debt heading for £1 trillion?

#21 valdan70

I'm no Conservative flag-bearer, however, I agree with France and Germany that there have to be limits to the stimulus and we have to be clear on what we want to achieve.

Currently the US and UK simply want re-inflate the bubble and for business as usual to resume. This notion, whilst politically convenient, is frankly absurd because we'll end up in the same position in a few years time - with huge debts incurred.

Across the political divide (and there is one), we want to see the economy 'kick-started' although I think we also like to see it sustainably kick-started with some significant changes put in place.

I think what you witness on this blog is a majority.... WE WANT TO WITNESS THE END OF THE NEW LABOUR DISASTER of which the economy is just one factor but if you need reminding, here are some others:

- Illegal Iraq war
- Afghanistan 'peacekeeping'
- Sexed-up dossier and fixing WMDs
- Dr Kelly's'suicide'
- Blair's taste for war
- Replacing Trident
- Bush and Obama's poodle
- Blocking EU treaty referendum
- Arms sales to Saudi terrorists
- Pandering to the Saudis
- BAE inquiry blocked by cronies
- Allowing Murdoch to influence policy
- Decimating UK manufacturing
- Borrowing Brown's boom & bust
- Brown's smoke & mirrors accounting
- Selling off gold reserves
- Creating debt culture
- Raids on pension funds
- PFI and PPI taxpayer rip off
- New Deal jobs sham
- Increasing gap between rich & poor
- Toadying to vested corporate greed
- A home office 'not fit for purpose'
- A tick-box PC culture
- Binge drinking, licensing laws
- 'Respect' agenda, knives and gangs
- Big Brother surveillance
- ID cards & attacks on civil liberties
- Fiddling crime stats
- Unchecked immigration
- Blunkett's fall from grace
- Stuffing quangos with lackeys
- Rise of consultants and wonks
- Mandelson's rise & fall & rise
- Campbelll & the spin doctors
- Erminegate Sleaze
- New Labour croneyism
- Ex-ministers pimping for lobby firms
- Levy pimping peerages to slushfund
- Eco-town con
- Ripping the public to pay for Olympics
- £12.7bn NHS computer waste
- Privatisation and NHS cuts
- Squandering taxpayer's billions
- Academies & dumbed down exams
- Scrapping trade union's Clause 4
- Greengate scandal
- Bernie Ecclestone scandal
- Encouraging gullible to gamble
- Prescott and the super casino
- Dome fiasco
- False 'Britishness'
- Killing off pubs and Post Offices

I am sincerely hoping that the UK's credit rating soon loses its AAA status and that international investors start to bail out of the Pound big time. It is the only way to stop Bonkers Brown and his insane borrowing in their tracks!

Brown is bankrupting the nation and the sooner he is stopped the better! Call in the IMF!

crowded @ 25

blowing all the dosh during the good times

that's a valid point but ...

- we did vote for the higher public spending
- he raised taxes (against Clown opposition) so as not to be imprudent
- govt debt, as a pc of GDP, was not that high coming into the slump

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Re: 21 "This is not the right time to talk the country down when Gordon Brown is doing his utmost to achieve consensus. If anybody is seeking to advance themselves with complete disregard for the good of the country, it is the Conservative party."

If Brown is doing "his utmost to achieve consensus" then he is not succeeding. What he is actually trying to do is to bludgeon the rest of the world leaders into agreeing with him when it is patently obvious most of them do not. His underlying agenda is to try to persuade the UK electorate that he is one of the key leaders in the world with enormous stature. His rating in the opinion polls would suggest he is not succeeding in that either.

Where he is succeeding is to look increasing pathetic and, even more increasingly, an embarrassment.

As for the Conservatives having "complete disregard for the good of the country", well it is their job to provide an opposition. If they believe - and have evidence to back their views - that the government is making a mess of things they have a duty to come out and say so. That's what democracy is about. In fact, it would be highly dangerous to have a consensus around government policies when they have created the mess we are currently in.

The damage this government, and Brown in particular, has done both at home and to our image overseas is going to take a long, long time to repair. Indeed, rather than the Conservatives having "complete disregard for the good of the country" it is this NuLabour and Brown in particular who should stand accused of that. Their main aim seems to be to save their own skins never mind what damage is done to the country as they scramble to do so.

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Last time I checked Barack Obama was not running this country nor it's fiscal policy. Gordon needs to ignore King at his peril. The electorate know that Gordon has messed up, and even more so with his errors during this depression. Now the Governor is saying no more, the country doesn't want or need more debt, but Gordon will press ahead arrogantly believing he is right. Next step is for King to resign and this can cause a vote of no confidence! Superman if you're out there...HELP!

Oh For Gods Sake!

Look at him!

No thanks mate I don't want a Big Issue.

Blimey and people were complaining how Boris Johnson Looked in the Olympics.

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it appears that it's more than just Mervyn King that believes Gordon Brown has spent too much money...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs&feature=player_embedded

What is it about the G20 that makes Gordon Brown so insecure? He appears to be wanting to visit every single member before they come to London to make sure they all say the same thing; this is a high risk strategy indeed...and not a bit pathetic.


Good to see Mervyn King going to visit the real head of the countr yesterday and teling her the story like it is; she clearly can't get a straight answer out of Gordon Brown, which is why it is making front page news around the world and has kicked Gordon Brown off the front page...

Call an election

Valdan 70 @21..

Your reference to the Opinium Poll is somewhat flawed,methinks.Questions that were put to the public asked for their views of which of "two" outcomes was more important.In the case of those saying Global stimulus was most important..just look at the alternative answer...reducing bonuses!

Let me quote...

"The study, by pollsters Opinium Research, found 50% of respondents said signing such an agreement should be the key concern for the world leaders.

This compares with 29% who said tackling excessive bank bonuses should be the main issue of the event."

I don't think people have to be Einsteins to work out that this whole economic disaster is not going to be resolved by reducing bonuses..do you?

He looks a very tired apology for a prime minister now , scuttling round the world hoping someone will say he was right.

He has bled us dry.....

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I do apologise..it seems I misread the Poll format.

Ho hum...but it still said the following...

"Turning their attention to domestic UK politics, 55% of respondents said they thought Prime Minister Gordon Brown was relying upon the G20 summit for a bounce in the polls.

Meanwhile, one in three said the summit would be "completely irrelevant to their lives"."

..hardly so supportive of Brown as Valdan70 would have us believe..eh?

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With the necessity of a general election within little over a year, Gordon Brown will no doubt regard Rupert Murdoch as the most important man at the breakfast meeting.

Mervin King is probably right to say that there is little scope for further increases in the UK government's borrowing. But there is plenty of scope for fiscal measures aimed at transferring spending power from rich to poor. This was a role that personal credit played before the credit crunch and a replacement is urgently needed.

However, Rupert Murdoch and the other rich men, who have an unhealthy influence over the UK's political system, are most unlikely to approve, so this is a non starter.

Why am I starting to detect the acrid smell of panic in Whitehall?

Nick,

I found your comment

"However, the prime minister will do his best today to look unruffled by Mr King's warning that he cannot afford another significant stimulus"

remarkable.

If I went to my bank manager and he told me that my spending was out of control and i should be more "PRUDENT", would I be foolish to ignore his advice?

Would my family respect me for listening to professional advice?

The man Brown is out of control, he's a general who's lost the war but still fighting his last battle because he's praying the inevitable won't happen.

All I'll say with two fingers when he and his party go is good ridence.

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Well Nick, you've been a busy boy this week, with at least five threads started, and still you lack the insightful comment that you have "got" the mess that we are in.

El Gordo has packed his bags again and is doing the round of pre-G20 meetings. This is following his trip to Washington last month, and the finance minister's meeting last week. Obviously he isn't getting the response he, and we (unfortunately) desperately need from our "partners" in crime, since it is, apparently, a GLOBAL problem. I for one am not holding out any hope that this G20 shindig will actually bring any tangible results.

Plus, of course, it keeps El Gordo out of the firing line in PMQ's today.

When the governor of the BofE, who, traditionally, has kept out of politics, feels it incumbent upon him to issue words of warning about further government fiscal action, it's time for El Gordo to take a leaf out of the tory playbook, according to him, and DO NOTHING.

Also, since the rabble rousing by the government about the blessed St Fred has resulted in an attack on his home, one wonders whether some politicians might consider whether they have unleashed a fearful fiend, in the form of public retribution, that might well visit them in due course. After all, just like St Fred, they are guilty of taking unjustifiable amounts of money off their employers, in this case US.

grief @ 45

I don't think people have to be Einsteins to work out that this whole economic disaster is not going to be resolved by reducing bonuses ... do you?

dunno actually - given that the venal GET RICH QUICK culture of the City and Wall St (as exemplified by the crazy bonuses) was the biggest single contributory factor in the banking meltdown, and the banking meltdown has triggered the economic slump, I'd say that getting rid of that (for example, by slashing the potential for said bonuses) makes all the sense in the world ... more important, perhaps, than just about anything else

but then again I'm only a Sagamix, not an Einstein

Nick, have you looked at Der Spiegel recently? That seems to suggest it is Merkel's view, ie regulation rather than fiscal stimulus, which will be presented to the G20 meeting as the EU view.

Perhaps that is why Brown is sounding - and looking - increasingly desperate.

Global solutions for Gordon's crisis!

This guy has so much brass neck..........flying to Brazil to lecture them about how to run their economy...leaving behind a trillion pound debt mountain whilst the Brazilians enjoy a 200 billion dollar cash pile!

Which country has been run prudently for the last 10 years...the UK or Brazil.

Please President Lula give Crash Gordon a public dressing down like Hannan did in the Euro Parliament yesterday.

Dare not criticise Obama lest one is accused of racism. His nomination was a clever move by the USA after the unpopular Bush. But Brown? Here one can write just what one thinks, save it would be so vile it wouldn't pass the Moderators.

Browns' ideas include increased financial regulation, an end to tax havens and further action to stimulate the economy.

The banks were already very heavily regulated but some still failed so maybe 'smarter' regulation would help.

Also, I saw some reseach recently that suggested the 'ideal' size of a bank was only around $10Bn, so breaking up some of the behemoth banks may be a sensible measure that (US) Government could undertake.

Tax havens will always be with us because money, like electricity, always flows to the place of least (tax) resistance so it seems pretty pointless going after these havens, better to make your own patch a more attractive place to do business.

Fiscal stimulation of any shape, must take into account a planet that may be reaching an environmental tipping point, due to some of humankinds economic activities.

Whatever, today I'm much more worried about our 17-year-old cat who has developed an aggressive tumour on her spleen and has'nt eaten for a few days.

It is the personal that touches us, the rest can go hang.

Throughout this whole financial crisis what I have struggled with is the apparent contradiction that the problems are global and unprecendented but that the solution is this Keynesian approach much vaunted for pulling an economy out of recession. If this is unprecendented then the solution is equally going to be something different.

This is probably a reflection of my ignorance but to me there is a lack of imagination or understanding of the problems by those on high. There is a tired use of the same old solution which is just enslaving us for many years to come.

So I say no to more "stimulus" or future debt as I prefer to think of it. For an issue that is (and has been) so important to the future of the UK it is a travesty that we the general public have had no say whether we want to saddle ourselves with this massive debt.

It is also a shame that the BBC has not chased down the gov on this issue and held them to account. What were the strings attached to the first bailout? Why haven't heads rolled on the RBS & Lloyds/HBOS & NR fiascos?

Come on Nick the people of Britain need you. Find out exactly what Brown and Darling have done or are doing. Find out if the people of Britain want to rack up this debt. And I mean Britain not just Westminster or London.

Nick,

what I find so disgraceful that I am going to be held responsible for saddling my children and grandchildren with a massive pile of debt because Gordon Brown and his ilk want to maintain an unsustainable standard of living. It is no longer about standards of living, it is all about quality of life, and for many it over, all so very over.

Has Brown lost the plot? Has any idea how ridiculous he looks? Running around the world with an empty bank account declaring we need to borrow and spend more to kickstart a fundamentally flawed global economuy.

He stands or naught but failure and nothing stinks like that.

Love the photo editors choice for the blog by the way... the one above should show the relevant ambassador holding his hand and saying "I would like to introduce our national leader... he's a devolved monkey!"

tarquin @ 33

At some point in the recent past, as far as the USA is concerned, Australia overtook the so-called UK in relative political and economic importance.

Plus it has supplied a small but very effective military presence to assist the Americans on their military adventures, for decades.

It seems to be very difficult for people on this relatively insignificant island to get any sort of meaningful perspective on our place in the world.

I suppose this is partly due to a mostly glorious past but also because 'our' politicians still buzz around the world, frantically trying to punch way, way above their weight.

None of it is particularly helpful now and I think that although there is patently a problem of a global dimension, English politicians should really focus on putting our currently sad little house, in order; within the framework of the EU.

Because that is something they really could influence.

MdkDutch @ #54

Glad you brought up the "impartiality" of the BBC. It seems to have done a runner.

Yesterday I was appalled to see and hear some goon who claims to be an economics correspondent, named Pym, try to explain the inflation figures. At one point he attempted to claim that the low inflation rate plus low interest rates were really good news for the millions of people with savings, and specially for those who rely on interest from savings to live on. It takes a lot of front to argue that no income, because of zero interest rates, is fine because the cost of goods that you can't buy with no income hasn't gone up.

He seemed to have swallowed government propaganda on this topic hook, line and sinker.

Surely even the most thick-skinned government apologist must realise that trumpeting the benefits of a zero measurement, which itself is intrinsically unbalanced, and which is why the government no longer relies on it, to people who are faced with high, and rising, food and energy costs is rubbing salt into open wounds.

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Gordon is a true red Labour man.

Whenever did Labour NOT spend money they didn't have, to dig themselves out of a hole ?

Hurtling through the upper atmosphere, as one does, I had occasion the other day to have a close encounter with what I can only describe as what you Earthlings can only describe as a UFO. In identifying the object as an unidentified flying object, I am, of course, being entirely accurate in so far as it is true to say that, upon first encountering it, I did not immediately identify it as the aircraft carrying aboard it the so valuable personage of the saviour of your world.

Upon closer scrutiny, after scanning the craft for signs of intelligent life, an exercise requiring an adjustment of the sensory intensity of the detection device activated for that purpose, it became apparent to me that I had better change course, in view of the fact that a collision, which would have represented but a slight dent on the bumper to me, would have knocked the supreme overlord of the constitutional entity known as UK into a cocked hat, whatever that might be, and thus altered the course of planetary history in such a manner as to damage your chances of surviving the current planetary crisis irreparably.

On the subject of the current planetary crisis, how is that getting along, by the way? Worked out what went wrong, have we? Worked our way through all that toxic debt yet? Never mind, this is but a little glitch upon the path to enlightenment which all primitive species must tread if they are to become a little less primitive. And the quantitive easing? How is that going? Shall I need a wheelbarrow yet, whatever that may be, to transport currency for the purposes of purchasing a box of matches? Not that I ever find myself in need of such a thing, whatever that might be. It was only an example. Anyway, enjoy printing all those banknotes. They might be worth something one of these days, as collectors' items.

Well, I can't sit here chatting to you all day. I am on my way to a conference, that G20 thing, to take a closer look at an historic turning point in the evolution of global finances, taking a detour by way of the pretty route, as, improbable though it may seem to you, I have a soft spot for Scotland, the constitutional sub-unit the very mention of which is infra dig throughout much the realm of the supreme overlord, even though he originated in that much-neglected subordinate territory himself.

Napoleon - you know, that upstart fellow in the bicorn hat who wanted to set the world to rights but you wouldn't let him - had the same sort of relationship with Corsica, of course. Dominating a continent or rescuing a planet, what's the difference? It's all the same to a man of destiny. Who cares about an anomalous little stain on the map that only wants to mind its own business? Not much fun in that. Not as much as saving a planet, anyway.

Meanwhile, to stimulate or not to stimulate? That is the question. And what to do about that troublesome Governor of the Bank of England, whatever that might be? Is there not an island that he can be sent to in order to ponder his folly? Now there is where Scotland might come in handy for something. It has plenty of islands. Let him cool his heels there. No one pays any attention to what goes on up there in any case.

Toodloothenoo.

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#35 extremesense

An excellent list...though not complete..

-Losing 25,000,000 child benefit records
-Losing 40,000 Prisoner records
-Losing 3,000,000 Learner driver records
-Expenses scandal

These are some i thought of in 2 minutes!

Beyond belief....

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So just how comfortable will Gordon Brown now be feeling?

Mervyn King has said we can't borrow anymore money.

The Queen has had her first ever personal audience with Mervyn King.

No representative from the government, the Bank of England or the Palace was present at the meeting; the meeting was just Mervyn King and the Queen. No notes are taken.

Gordon Brown will be itching to know what they talked about but will never know...or maybe he wil find out sooner than he thinks..

Scroll back thirty odd years and Sir John Kerr (the Governor General of Australia and representative of the Queen) sacked Gough Whittlam then Prime Minister of Australia...

There is only one person who can bring Gordon Brown to account and it's the Queen... and she can argue that he no longer has the support of the public, the opinion polls, the bank of England and he is unelected.

Is Gordon Brown about to be our very own Gough Whittlam?

Call an election.

Oh well with Rupert Murdoch meeting Gordon we only have to wait to read tomorrows Sun to see how soon the next election will be. Don`t think Rupert will wish to prolong his association with this dying government for too much longer.

Hasn`t been very good for Gordon so far has it Nick. As soon as his back is turned Mervyn King puts the knife in. Then he is told a few home truths in the EU parliament by Mr Hannah. What a great piece on You Tube that was.

Does Gordon not realise how ridiculous all of this is? No one wants to listen to him anymore. He is a total embarassment.

"The political problem with those measures for Gordon Brown is that the Tories support them too, so he cannot presently use them to create his much favoured "dividing lines" with the opposition."

And of course, this is the crux of the matter. The only thing that The Crashmeister is remotely interested in is the POLITICAL impact of all these hastily announced measures. The PRACTICAL or ECONOMIC consequences are of no interest whatsoever, regardless of how damaging they may be. Indeed, given the dire prospects for Labour in next year's election, it could be argued that a scorched earth policy may have some appeal to a lame duck PM.

As a political journalist, is it not perhaps reasonable to expect that you might draw attention to this conflict of interest rather more clearly?

"Mr Brown may prefer to listen to the advice of Barack Obama than that of Mervyn King."

Crazy views indeed.

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is the queen about to dissolve parliament........when was the last time the governor of the BOE have an audience with the queen on the same day he criticised the government policy? With GB out of the country we could have an african style coup, with her majesty presiding over the G20!

Given Mervyn King's announcement yesterday about the perils of more public spending and the fact that all leaders are meeting next week for the G20 summit, can someone please tell me how this idiot Brown can justify all his posturing about what everyone needs to do about the economy whilst flying around the world..at our expense?

There’s numerous bloggers on today expressing disbelief and outrage as to why Daniel Hannan’s “speech” isn’t getting more media coverage.

So let’s think.

Daniel Hannan, an obscure right wing Euro Sceptic Tory MEP (who 90% plus of the Uk population will never have heard of) makes a predictable rhetoric filled rant about Gordon Brown.

5 to 6 hours later

President Obama, Known by 99% of the worlds population makes a speech on his views about the potential recovery from the Global recession.

Which speech is likely to dominate the media?

Just because Hannan’s extreme right wing Tory Rhetoric is music to the ears of extreme right wing Tory bloggers on here, it doesn’t mean that anyone else is remotely interested in what he had to say. Get over it Robin et al.

The constant anti-government bias displayed by the BBC is getting beyond a joke. Taking this recent comment "he cannot afford another significant stimulus" put into the mouth of the Governor of the BoE as a typical example (because that is not what he said). You give the impression (eagerly siezed upon by the opposition) that King is opposed to the existing level of stimulus, when he has stated in terms that he is in favour. Other examples are legion - from Paxo laughing in response to a perfectly reasonable argument put forward by a government minister, to the decision not to show the ridiculous rant by some Tory nonentity in the European Parliament (presumably not to embarass Cameron et al).

I know that Nick is a former leading Young Conservative, but the BBC really should try to be more objective in it's coverage ,and at the very least divorce comment from factual reporting. No doubt they feel they have to be nice to the Tories in the face of their threat to cut or abolish the licence fee, but sometimes it is better to be brave than to compromise on principle.

Here's the best speech of the century...

"Prime Minister, I see you’ve already mastered the essential craft of the European politician: namely the ability to say one thing in this chamber and a very different thing to your home electorate. You’ve spoken here about Free Trade – and amen to that. Who would have guessed, listening to you just now, that you were the author of the phrase ‘British jobs for British workers’ and that you have subsidised, where you have not nationalised outright, swathes of our economy, including the car industry and many of the banks? Perhaps you would have more moral authority in this house if your actions matched your words? Perhaps you would have more legitimacy in the councils of the world if the United Kingdom were not going into this recession in the worst condition of any G20 country?

The truth, Prime Minister, is that you have run out of our money. The country as a whole is now in negative equity. Every British child is born owing around £20,000. Servicing the interest on that debt is going to cost more than educating the child. Now, once again today you try to spread the blame around; you spoke about an international recession, international crisis. Well, it is true that we are all sailing together into the squalls. But not every vessel in the convoy is in the same dilapidated condition. Other ships used the good years to caulk their hulls and clear their rigging; in other words – to pay off debt. But you used the good years to raise borrowing yet further. As a consequence, under your captaincy, our hull is pressed deep into the water line under the accumulated weight of your debt.

We are now running a deficit that touches 10% of GDP, an almost unbelievable figure. More than Pakistan, more than Hungary; countries where the IMF have already been called in.

Now, it’s not that you’re not apologising; like everyone else I have long accepted that you’re pathologically incapable of accepting responsibility for these things. It’s that you’re carrying on, wilfully worsening our situation, wantonly spending what little we have left. Last year - in the last twelve months – a hundred thousand private sector jobs have been lost and yet you created thirty thousand public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on for ever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecedented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt. And when you repeat, in that wooden and perfunctory way, that our situation is better than others, that we’re ‘well-placed to weather the storm’, I have to tell you that you sound like a Brezhnev-era apparatchik giving the party line. You know, and we know, and you know that we know that it’s nonsense! Everyone knows that Britain is worse off than any other country as we go into these hard times. The IMF has said so; the European Commission has said so; the markets have said so – which is why our currency has devalued by thirty percent. And soon the voters too will get their chance to say so. They can see what the markets have already seen: that you are the devalued Prime Minister of a devalued government."

-- Dan Hannon MEP, Tuesday 24/3/2009

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Czech govt has fallen..to add to Latvia and Lithuania... Gordon Brown next?

all an election

Saga @57....

"I'd say that getting rid of that (for example, by slashing the potential for said bonuses) makes all the sense in the world ... more important, perhaps, than just about anything else"

Yep..you sure are desparate,aren't you?

So this recession,which could well turn into Depression, is all about bonuses..right? It's nothing to do with reckless Government spending,reckless Government encouragement to take personal debt to unheard of heights,reckless promotion of 'light touch' regulation etc etc etc.

Of course the Banks were,and are,hugely responsible...but Brown encouraged them..didn't he?

Oh..I'm sorry..it's nothing to do with him..its all America's fault,and we're better placed to ride it out...aren't we!

Pah!!!

apparently the gilt auction failed this morning for the first time ever.....what chance GB now?

74 Robin

Got to say, when it comes to (IMO) idiotic posts, the bar is usually set pretty high on here, but Robin you've gone for the record with this one as you hope for the unelected Queen to unseat as you see it the unelected Prime Minister without an ounce of irony.

Never mind, no doubt Daniel Hannan would offer his full support.

Lets all bark at the moon!!

78 Probably

Spot on, so spot on.

rjd @ 74

No representative from the government, the Bank of England or the Palace was present at the meeting; the meeting was just Mervyn King and the Queen. No notes are taken

I took notes, Robin ... her Maj (who in fact called the meeting) told Mervyn to get back to counting the beans and stop fretting about fiscal policy

Just watched Harrier Hardman on PMQ's.

She clearly has taken some of Browns denial pills,but could someone please explain how the Tories IHT intentions will only benefit 3000 millionaires?

Actually,it is not the dead that benefit at all.

I have just checked the average price of 3 bedroom houses in my area..and that average value would take every single owner of such premises out of IHT under Tory proposals...and there's a lot more than 3000 of them where I live!

valdan70 wrote:
The people who post on here seem to believe they speak for the majority. Not so, the poll issued this morning tells us that 50% of people in the UK believe the most important thing to come out of the G20 should be agreement on fiscal stimulus to kickstart the global economy. Incidentally, Mervyn King did not say no more borrowing, he said there was room for responsible borrowing. The Conservatives popping up on all tv programmes insisting his comments mean 100% support for them just come over as opportunistic and cheap. This is not the right time to talk the country down when Gordon Brown is doing his utmost to achieve consensus. If anybody is seeking to advance themselves with complete disregard for the good of the country, it is the Conservative party.

By my understanding that does sound like the Conservative policy, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems(and now it appears the Bank of England) aren't against fiscal stimulus they just feel that it has to be affordable and responsible.

The Conservatives feel that throwing money blindly at the problem won't solve anything and according to Gordon Brown that makes them a "do nothing" party.

Blindly throwing money at a problem rarely works even if you have money to blindly throw around - currently we don't. The government is borrowing from the future in order to just appear that they are doing something now!

At 11:47am on 25 Mar 2009, Eatonrifle wrote:

"Just because Hannan?s extreme right wing Tory Rhetoric is music to the ears of extreme right wing Tory bloggers on here, it doesn?t mean that anyone else is remotely interested in what he had to say. Get over it Robin et al."

I am neither extreme, right wing nor Tory.

Perhaps a little less vilification when people disagree with you may be in order, Eatonrifle. Especially as it is a tactic of this government, too.

harry @ 73

however you have been a bit melancholic of late

and can you blame me, Harry, with all the good people turning on me like this? - never felt such a pariah - all I'm trying to do is blow away the cobwebs, shine a light into the murky corner, smarten up the garden - oh, what a cruel world it is to be sure

plus, somebody's gone and done posting under a load of fake Saga IDs now !!

"It is a package that now appears to have President Obama's whole hearted public support."

not true, Nick. Obama has explicitly said that the kind of approaches that Brown has (eg the vat cut) are insane and that he wants nothing to do with them.

Yes, he (Obama) does want to spend/borrow money, but he doesn't want to spend that money in the mad ways that Brown wants to, and Obama also stresses the need to get that debt paid back as quickly as possible.

Obama talks about physically getting money into people's pockets as quickly as possible (eg physically sending them tax rebate cheques without them having to fill in any forms), and he talks about starting projects immediately with *private* companies to boost employment and get things moving, and he talks about paying back that extra government debt as quickly as possible.

Brown talks about obscure weird things like the vat cut which nobody notices and which have no effect (other than costing the tax payer more money in the long run), and he talks about paying *government* workers for extra bureaucratic systems which just make them even more inefficient (and which won't even start for many months), and he doesn't care a jot about paying back the debt ever.

The difference is obvious, but the BBC won't/don't report on it.

Obama's approach and Brown's approach could not possibly be more different.

What you say, Nick, is misleading to say the least.

"sagamix wrote:
crowded @ 25

blowing all the dosh during the good times

that's a valid point but ...

- we did vote for the higher public spending"

Considering the vast majority of voters actually voted against New Labour I would say that we DIDN'T vote for higher public spending.

Although saying that high public spending is not a bad thing as long as the money is spent on things that are worthwhile. We could probably have saved billions on "not for purpose" computer systems alone! And we can add to that the cost of the war on terror - just think what could have been done if that money had been spent on bettering the lives of the citizens of this country!

Why is our prime minister visiting world leaders, could it be that our dear leader has to go out and beg for support before this G20 so he doesn't look a fool? Is this not something that a telephone call could not sort out? What an utter waste of tax payers money and how predicatble, his own party and country is falling apart and he flies off to save the world from ecconomic doom. Reallity is he cant, no one wants to listen to him. And why should they, they all witnessed what he and his drones have done to this country for the past 11 years, they only have to look at the countrys finances to know that Briton is ecconomicly doomed. They are not stupid, why should they listen to some one telling them what to do when that person has failed their own country.
Jolo 13 now would be the perfect time to dissolve parliment and call a proper election.
Sorry to rant on.

Today saw the first failed glit auction by the UK in fourteen years. Brown's spending sprees can only last as long as the tap remains on. This morning's news is the first sign that the lenders are running for the hills.

Got a number for the IMF?

'This is no time for novices' or some such saying of Gordons? Yet he thinks that it is a good idea to follow this line because it suits him. He doesnot understand people having to pay their way, not something he wrote a book at university about 'working the system', he has presided over a government that has spent everything in the kitty.

This government have spent billions employing more management consultants than ever before because they know nothing themselves. We also have a huge number of quangos at a high cost that produce nothing useeful.

Gordon ought to have a break and do a bit of thinking. We can't afford it...not a phrase that Gordon understands. I despair at the thought of how long the mess will take to clear up, and I will spend my retirement paying for this governments mistakes. The trouble is they have had a benign media throughout their time in power so ahve not been challenged by good journalism.

"The political problem with those measures for Gordon Brown is that the Tories support them too, so he cannot presently use them to create his much favoured "dividing lines" with the opposition."

And I'm wondering what it is I should do
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face
Losing control yeah, I'm all over the place
CLOWNS to the LEFT of me, JOKERS to the RIGHT, here I am