It's business as usual

At Number One
Hustlers Union - Da Game Is to Be Sold, Not to Be Told

Dear Nick,

Very good story from your (HP) source, any mention of the Royal Mail pension black hole, EU directives on postal services, etc etc etc.

I would prefer a private company broken down into regions parts and sold off to the highest bidder! Well, it worked for British Rail why not here?

Merry Winterval
Xxxx

ps
How long did Lord Mandy stay on that Russian boat, any news yet?

Dear Nick,

Pps,
Re The Pension overpayments

Mr Cable said the error had only just been discovered, any chance your (HP) source could find out what *had only just* actually means?
Days, weeks, months, er YEARS!!!!!!

Xxxx

Governments are most prone to 'think the unthinkable' (and to sacrifice sacred cows) in the run-up to an election it feels it is fated to lose.

Putting Royal Mail in the private sector will almost certainly make good business sense, but politically there will be no hope of recovering sufficient goodwill to have any hope of winning the next General Election.

Yet again, however, a company in public ownership and about which the public feels real passion - just as with British Rail (before its dismantlement) - is proposed to be flogged off in an opaque process which denies members of the public an opportunity to participate in its future.

As is wont to happen in such cases, those parts of the business destined to be profitable will be snapped up and exploited, and the public purse will continue to subsidise parts of Royal Mail which can never hope to even come close to covering their costs - a short-term gain, long-term pain.

Mutualisation, not privatisation, should be the model to be pursued with remaining public assets.

"Peter Mandelson is, once again, being condemned by many in his own party."


Peter Mandelson is, once again, illustrating that he is a cut above his Cabinet colleagues; how different his career might have been if he had not been so clearly identifiable as Blair's Man - to be attacked as a surrogate for attacking the erstwhile PM.

PM for PM!!!

It's a bit hard, listening to Mandelson and this Administration talking about "improving" the Post Office.

Blair and Brown spent a long time whittling away at - or constraining - the services that could be offered via Post Offices. Then grumble about a lack of commercial viability.

Royal Mail/Post Office is structured as a private company. At present the only shareholders are the State (represented by the Government).

The shareholders have allowed a private company to build a huge pension deficit. Can this be the same mob who criticise PLcs who struggle to maintain pension funds, after Brown hacked off Billions of pounds?

Why haven't the shareholders' representatives got their act together 5, 10 or 15 years ago?

The German government allowed Deutsch Post to plough back (fairly expensive) postal income into efficiency investments over the years. They used their monopoly income to improve service - but also buy dozens of private companies to become the biggest logistics operator in the world.

TNT is not a postal specialist. It is a good small/ express parcel and logistics service. If Mandelson wanted genuine postal expertise, he should send Brown to plead with Angela Merkel to allow DP to get involved.

Here we go again. This mob has bled the PO dry - now believes it knows exactly how to revive the patient.

Quel surprise!

There is only one outcome from privatisation.

Higher postage prices and the end of the universal daily delivery.

Sorry. Fingers too fast.

That should, of course, have been
"Quelle surprise"...

The report states ...

First and foremost, Royal Mail is much less efficient than many of its
European peers. While Royal Mail has already removed around £500 million
in costs from its operations (including over 40,000 jobs), the management
recognises that it is only part way through the transformation necessary to
regain its status as best in class. Last year, Royal Mail’s letters business was
the least profitable postal company amongst its Western European peers, and
the only one to make an operating loss.

And this is the problem, no other European mail operator has had its profitable mail creamed off at such excessive rates denying it the capital to invest for the future. All of Royal Mails ill's are government founded, taking away profitable contracts from Royal Mail and giving them away to competitors, then subsidising the service! sheer lunacy.

Face it, the government is broke.

Royal Mail Group has some incredibly viable parts.

One of the largest retailers in Europe, very good logistics capabilities, banking products and facilities. Its IT systems can market tens of thousands of products from stamps to personal loans.

It has consistently under-performed for the last 10 years especially in the light of internet retailers which as a business model is certainly complimentary to the Post Office.

Even in this current economic climate, Post Office would be worth 3 times revenue...

A cool £30bn.

Or about 9 months interest on our record 2010 national debt.

Is there nothing these clowns (both Labour and Tory) won't flog off to foreign governments for short-term cashflow reasons?

How about our blood and the air we breathe?

I hope this will become a major issue at the next election and that both parties have to promise to reverse this stupidity in order to win votes.

#2 may be right - this smacks of a poisoned chalice like rail privatisation, pushed through by major when he knew he was going to lose the next election. We're still regretting that (and labour's cowardice in not reversing it) today.

What a great idea!

Privatising energy, rail, Tube (PFI), the NHS (PFI), Steel, etc, etc ,etc worked so well why not do it all over again with Royal Mail?

What's more, so many jobs have been preserved as a result - a great recession buster too!

Please excuse my sarcasm but it's the only reaction given my disbelief.... we've just shelled out God knows how much to the banks and will probably end up doing the same to the motor industry, can't we just cut out the middle bit and keep Royal Mail Public?

I understand that PO management, workers, and potential investors are concerned about the regulatory framework. I agree, it needs revision to give a better focus and prevent cherry picking. If new management can bring innovation and PO workers can get a good deal Mandelson's plan could help get people thinking more about added value, fairness, and building a better tomorrow than nitpicking over short-term trivialities like phoney elections, recessions, and scapegoating the poor.

NB - as for liking Peter Mandelson I think it must be impossible although maybe his mother found a way.

MANDELSON is disliked by millions. He is an absolute plonker.

Mandelson is a slug and I wouldn't trust him with my dog.

Yet again, however, a company in public ownership and about which the public feels real passion - just as with British Rail (before its dismantlement) - is proposed to be flogged off in an opaque process which denies members of the public an opportunity to participate in its future.

It took me a moment to get my head around this one but folks on the left and right can get too precious about things. The most important issue isn't necessarily tradition or ownership but focus and relevance.

The problem with the British postal industry is it's a mess of monopoly and cherry picking: it's a mediocre compromise deal between left and right. Mandelson's plan has the chance of leaping free of that box.

If regulation can create a gold standard and the various vested interests can get behind that and drive success, this will help remould and reform a keystone of British commerce, and lead a charge that will help create economic recovery and a better Britain.

Here we go again. This mob has bled the PO dry - now believes it knows exactly how to revive the patient.

You're just being jaded and cynical. This undermines your own potential and gets in the way of making deals. How about telling us how this plan could be beneficial? It would be a shorter list.

Nick

With Lord Mandelson it is always wise to not only read the small print but to read between the lines of the small print.

One element of the Royal Mail issue on which you media guys should keeping a very close eye is the pension fund. A £22b fund but with a likely £7b shortfall by next year.

A seductive option for the Government - take over the liabilities of the fund in the long term, pausing only to use the £ 22b fund to reduce borrowing in the short term.

Outcome - a visible short term political gain but with £29b added to, the invisible in the books, already huge burden on the public purse of the unfunded cost of public sector pensions.

On the issue of Peter's unpopularity with many in his own party, he will have made the calculation before he (once again) put his head above the parpapet on this issue. Doubtless he sees being unpopular with the usual Labour suspects as a political advantage, both personally and for the Government.

Having wrecked the Royal Mail whilst rewarding their friends this government now intends to flog the remainder off to some unsuspecting foreigner assuming they can find one that stupid.

So much for a Labour government!

They have now managed something that even Ma Thatcher never considered possibe of even practical.

Remember when she said with a note of pride in her voice `The Royal Mail is not for sale.'

Free markets are a methodology, they are not a dogma.

This is what a Labour government has become: a destroyer of jobs, of institutions, and of the very nation itself!

All together now:

Gordie, Gordie, Gordie! Out! Out! Out!
Gordie, Gordie, Gordie! Out! Out! Out!
Gordie, Gordie, Gordie! Out! Out! Out!
Gordie, Gordie, Gordie! Out! Out! Out!
Gordie, Gordie, Gordie! Out! Out! Out!

Irrespective of the intrinsic merits (or otherwise) of this issue, Mandelson is very aware of the political ramifications of this announcement.

It is a clear signal that he does not want there to be a general election in 2009.

Dear Nick

At last!

It's back to business as usual. The natural order has been restored. The era of political disorientation is at an end.


What?

At Last!

Even the people in his own party can see how manipulative he is. The sooner we get rid - the better.

Does this mean you're no longer answerable to him then, Nick?

I wouldn't trust Mandelson with my slug, let alone my dog...

I may be swimming against the tide here, looking at previous comments but I think the government has no choice.

The union is the body largely responsible for the situation of RM now - constantly resisting every change proposed for modernisation. Witness the moronic strike proposed for Friday. RM have given the staff in the sorting offices to be closed 2 years - 2 years! - notice and they are still whingeing about it, while people in other industries are losing their jobs.

A number of people within the postoffice/royal mail feel that radical change is the only way now. If this doesn't happen, the network will be broken up anyway.

I don't think a private company is the solution to all problems, but to have TNT (or another company) put money in and introduce best practice from elsewhere is a step forward.

Having said that, I think it will be very hard to do. RM workers live in a different universe to most other people, with completely unrealistic expectations.

It would seem folly to roll back the Blair years.

It would seem even more folly to privatise an asset, when clearly so many private enterprise businesses have failed.

Deregulating the PO at a time when deregulisation has caused so much trouble, is simply "IRRESPONSIBLE"

Trying to sell a part share of the 7Bn pension deficit, Is A NO BRAINER' simply token politics.

When you fragment a running business, you break IT! you damage the goods the service and the effective effeciency of the six days aweek services.


Just when you think labour is making a home run, to be the peoples party again.
along comes Mandelson! christ between this and the benifits reforms. I can see the walls forming around middle England.

well the main problem is that the goverment open the postal market up and it totally back fired on them.

Now they have to bail the royal mail out with private investement. That will deffently be the end of the who postal sevice as we know it.

As some one who works for the royal mail all i can see is changes for the worst, you are going to end up with lots of postie flat out on the back in the middle of summer with heat stroke.

Yours

Robert Clarkson

If Mandy thinks that privatising broken public services will fix them - why stop at Royal Mail?

I dont think the public have ever had a great
problem with the post office ! well up north
anyway its stupid to let foreiners cherrypick
the good bits and thats what happens.
The letters side alone is not as profitable on
it own thats why the post office needs the
entire business swings and roudabouts.
will the tax man rake in the same tax off
firms from abroad as they do from the post office ( you bet they wont ) What dose
Mandelson know about any thing but stealth
he must think the postees walk about with
a handbag and a hand on their hip ! the mans an eneleted idiot.

Stocktonion.

Personally, I'm more concerned about issues like Phorm and the big ISP's trying to monetize our bitstreams with throttling traffic that doesn't make them money. Plus, there's the inflation busting price rises and talking up the costs of building a next generation internet. This has to end.

Stephen Carter is tasked with the regulation job, and I'm hoping he forces open all the networks and allows small and large ISP's to sell their services direct to the customer without the middleman. The ISP cartel has tried to game its customers driving innovation and making money. This has to end.

Banking and retail suffer from similar issues, and similar tricks from the big ISP's are causing similar frustration and anxiety. A lot of the negative vibe surrounding Labour is down to this and the Tories are happy to surf that wave while doing nothing to advocate better alternatives. This has to end.

#17 CEH

"The most important issue isn't necessarily tradition or ownership but focus and relevance."

Not necessarily, no. But sometimes tradition, ownership and loyalty ARE important. If you live in a village like I do you'll understand this. Militant urbanites (which of course includes many of the most zealous New Labour people) never seem to get this.

But CEH is right on one issue: allowing the private sector to cherry-pick business mail was a disastrous decision which has led us where we are now.

ps

Maybe Oleg Deripaska is planning to buy the Royal Mail. He could then rename his yacht - any suggestions on an appropriate moniker?

the hooper report, pie in the sky.

the prefered outcome is based, in the end(diagram p77) on union and management becoming bosom buddies and forgetting the past 40 years of back stabbing and double dealing (mainly although not exclusively) by management. The Sawyer report was quite scathing about bullying by macho management and stressed the need for a more constructive partnership between the workforce and management. briefly this happened then it was back to business as usual with rule by fear and division.

something certainly has to change. the moving of regulatory control from postcomm to offcomm with it's wider remit may introduce a significant leveling of the playing field and greater transparency of costs within RM to allow a more informed dialogue with the workforce rather than the constant chicken licken approach pursued by management propaganda up to now.

In brief the main problem up to now has been lack of trust and belief in any of senior managements directives and pronouncements. Anything to remedy this dire state of affairs must be top priority if any successful restructuring is to take place

business as usual in disaster recovery mode
testing testing
ok lets go live

When Pat McFadden gave his speech about the PO situation in the house of commons.

Lord Mandelson was giving his speech at the same time (about the PO situation) in the house of lords.

Over the last week we have seen a-return to conservative and New labour working! both sharing the same policies, on the benifits and PO reforms.

Jeez! are we witnessing the coming together of the two main parties to form the next hung parliament?

With lord Mandelson ratifying the agreement in the other house?

Christ, how long until national services re-turns.

I guess all us old rockin rollers better watch out, there just may well be a economic war cabient in the near future.

As a gesture of goodwill in these troubled times, perhaps some of the MPs could chip in with contributions from their index-linked inflation-protected and platignum-encrusted pensions.


It's the right thing to do.

Good old Mandy! Up go postal charges with a spate of redundencies as soon as it is privatised. Then within a couple of years these blogs will be bemoaning the amount of salary and bonuses being paid to the directors of the privatised Royal Mail. If only nationalised industry could be run like private companies without the need for management to kow tow to the unions at every turn, then maybe the Royal mail would have financed itself. As it is , like every other nationalised industry, it priced itself out of the market.

That scarf isn't tied anywhere near tight enough.

Nick,

All of this links in with your previous blog
about the likelyhood of an early election.

It seems to me that Labour are getting rid of all their cocks up now. Just look at today for example - DNA data base, Overpaid Pensions, Sats Debacle, Transport Dept efficiency drive plan.

The Royal Mail`s current plan runs totally contrary to the Labour Party`s manifesto. With Peter Mandleson likely to be writing the next manifesto what better time to make plans for part privatation. With the manifesto rewritten in the terms you suggest it will stiffle any opposition to the proposals from Labour MPs or the Unions.

What other little gems will come out before Parliament goes into a long xmas break?

Better I suppose to get all the problems out of the way now as they will soon be forgotten about. Gives Labour somewhat of a clean slate to start electioneering on.

Watch this space! I think it`s worth putting a bet on a February General Election.

Nick,

The government is broke.

They are selling off the Post Office, like they did the nuclear power stations to raise cash so they can spend it.

If the election is in 2010 - maybe they can rush the sale through and use the cash received on one final "election bribe".

rcpostie

What are you complaining about? You're all finished by lunch time anyway.

Try doing a proper days work - like an MP.

"The era of political disorientation is at an end."

You mean Labour is going back to believing in a political theory that makes sense. Has an established party base who are to commited to the Ideology. Which represents a speaks for whole section of society.

Hang on a minute you mean
Labour are falling out again.

At least it's showing the zaNuLabour appologists in their true light.

Was there any more news?

#33 derekbarker

Jeez! are we witnessing the coming together of the two main parties to form the next hung parliament?


......................


That's it - I'm ringing the Samaritans.

Surely the obvious next step for Mandelson is a third resignation (as night follows day)!

I am very interested to know what jumped up, overpaid, over-rated Post Office chief Adam Crosier has been doing to justify his salary? I presume as the organisation is still backward, hasn't solved its pension provision and is believed to be a basket case by Mandelson, Crozier will get the sack immediately for total failure.

Finally, proof that politicians are completely detatched from reality. Could you ask for a more graphic demonstration than the last 3 months that market forces are not a universal panacea and that the "guiding hand" is a fallacy? Yet here they are, in the midst of the worst failure of the market in living memory, privatising everything that moves.

So they're going to sell the profitable bits to the Dutch and German state owned mail services and keep the loss making bits owned by the British state? Genius! The whole point of a national mail service is that the loss making bits are funded by the profitable bits, is it really that hard to see?

This country is ripe for some Greek-style political landscape changing methinks, after which all these crooks who have sold off our taxpayer assets for personal profit (going back to Major et al) will be first to be placed against the wall.

#36 blasted-heath

Ah, but if you had your foot on his throat you'd have much more purchase.

"The most important issue isn't necessarily tradition or ownership but focus and relevance."

Not necessarily, no. But sometimes tradition, ownership and loyalty ARE important. If you live in a village like I do you'll understand this. Militant urbanites (which of course includes many of the most zealous New Labour people) never seem to get this.

But CEH is right on one issue: allowing the private sector to cherry-pick business mail was a disastrous decision which has led us where we are now.

I understand tradition and ownership, authority and popularity, and action and relationships, hence the caveat. They matter but you have to be careful of getting sucked in by them. This requires a certain amount of insight, flexibility, and patience.

There's been similar issues with the NHS. I recall, putting a management perspective to a senior nurse - this showed up her own narrow and partisan perspective and, to her credit, she swallowed it. RM has similar issues to overcome but it's doable.

My general view is everyone would benefit from reading up on management and communication,and managers should show their faces more onthe front line and be kinder to employees. It's the only way the broken fundamentals will get fixed.

* My family owned farms and been involved with farming. I know how to milk a cow, dip sheep, and not put my fingers on the HT lead of a baling machine, and what a pain dealing with "not local" attitudes is.

the prefered outcome is based, in the end(diagram p77) on union and management becoming bosom buddies and forgetting the past 40 years of back stabbing and double dealing (mainly although not exclusively) by management. The Sawyer report was quite scathing about bullying by macho management and stressed the need for a more constructive partnership between the workforce and management. briefly this happened then it was back to business as usual with rule by fear and division.

This is another reason why, I think, the basic idea of continuous self improvement advocated by systems like Kaizen, Zen, and learning organisation theory are useful. It's fine talking up goals and outcomes, or lecturing and finger wagging, but it really comes down to the self. That requires people (you, me, us) to own it, take the pain, and make it happen. It's not necessarily quick or easy but the alternative isn't worth the bother.

The bottom line .Some people will get rich out of this by being able to "negotiate" with the gov. First they will buy the company at a knock down price, then "lo and behold" after holding them for a limited time , they,ll sell at a massive profit. L ater they will buy yachts where Mr Mandelson will spend a visit "not talking about business" When oh when are the british people going to realise whats going on. When oh when are we going to have a BBC that will report on this gov, mismanagement?

You know if Mandelson and Brown really do get their act together who knows they may even win the election for the Tories!!!!!!!!!

There are comments about how bad it would be to allow private capital to be injected into the Post Office.

And concerns that workers would be "stuffed" (as apparently happened with other privatisations).

C E H sometimes writes stuff I agree with. The interaction between management and staff in many companies (public, private, UK, USA, French, whatever) is often very, very sub-optimal.

Personally, I don't give a good goddam who owns an organisation. I care about the way that it's run, it's effectiveness and having a reasonable regard to so called "stakeholders" and "customers".

Old enough to have read Barbara Castle's "In Place of Strife". What a pity Labour was too cowardly to try and create a better framework for cooperation between the managers and the managed. If they'd had the balls then, it would not have been necessary for Thatcher to try and do things differently...

"Co-operative" enough to believe that company directors should be members of the pension schemes they put in place for their employees. (If they want to use their own salaries to invest separately, that's fine, but I don't like directors messing with staff futures while their own is not affected...)

The PO has been allowed to crumble. It could well have been allowed to obtain better rates for that very expensive "last mile" delivery. (Don't forget that the competitive entrants in the market target businesses. They do the simple bit - i.e. collecting bulk from business and moving it to a regional distribution point - but rely on the PO to sort and deliver to individual end-points. Personally, I believe the PO has been stuffed over the last decade. And by a Labour government, to boot.)

No surprise there, then.

Wow Voldemort wants to privatise the snail mail..




Well done MLord


You just went up 10 points in my estimation

Here we go again, another fine mess in the making.
"Offpost" not paying too much attention, post charges rise at above inflation for years (Water)
Switch mail supplier every month in an attempt to save a shilling (Power)
Phone service still an overpriced monopoly after how long in private hands.
Rail, who actually owns that system right now? and of course no complaints about that wonderful service which was going to be revitalised by privatisation.
Banks, oh yeh, we more or less own most of those very profitable well run business's.
Education, yup, no problem with the private outfits marking papers etc, how much money was recently handed back to HMG by a useless private company?
PFI, yup a real good way to also hand over great chunks of public property and then pay even larger chunks of money to have it maintained.
Privatisation is certainly the way forward...if you happen to be "connected" into the money fountain know as HMG.

Of course, it is interesting that if the Government decides it will "look after" the PO's pension scheme, it will simply consider the assets as being State assets (thereby reducing the true deficit...).

I believe the assets are currently around GBP20BILLION, so that will help to massage the truth about the perilous state Brown has brought us to.

There will, of course, be no recognition of the liabilities - nor the GBP 6 BILLION underfunding.

The Post Offices (the actual point of contact) should have been allowed - even encouraged - to get much more involved in commercial activities.

I've said many times that, if people like TNT can currently use the PO's last mile service, then POs should bbe allowed to sell TNT services for larger items.

Of course that would compete with ParcelForce. So maybe there is a place for a piece of the PO to be a joint venture (ParcelForce/TNT).

That's about the extent of TNT's possible contribution.

Fantastic, selling off more silver when the market's at a low!

Ha Ha great idea from the Goverment. Two things. Firstly, TNT, the firm who are in discussion with the Royal Mail, are the same ones who have lost the sensetive data discs. So what hope is there of them not losing any mail.
Secondly, TNT are in talks about selling to a rival parcel firm UPS. So what will happen then. (and yes it is true as we recieved a memo from our bosses at UPS)

I'm sick of this pseudo Capitalist pseudo Socialist rubbish. There is no 3rd way.

If you believe that the state should hold the means of production then say it then we could have a discussion on a basis that makes sense but this I want my cake and eat it rubbish is dead its buried under billons of £'s of Government borrowing & market driven spending with Enron accounting.

The Post Office counter service should be retained and expanded as a government service including small savings banking to keep out the loan sharks and support rural communities.
Royal Mail is one of the best brands that you could ever want to have and could really spread around the world as a private business.

Wake up and smell the coffee our go back to Socialist collectivisation.

This is not Mandleson’s message this is Thatcher’s which New Labour believed they could clone but has blown up in their face.

#48

"Personally, I don't give a good goddam who owns an organisation. I care about the way that it's run, it's effectiveness and having a reasonable regard to so called "stakeholders" and "customers"."

That's fine in theory, but I fear it is in practice somewhat optimistic, to put it charitably. Long experience in both public and private sectors tells me that being responsible to "shareholders" and "the market" produces a different mindset and crucially a different time horizon. The two types orf organisational model work best in different situations.

Not all organisations can work to 18 month ROCE (return on capital investment) and one year management targets. The Royal Mail is one of these.

Also, private companies seek to take something like 10% out of the business as dividends, if they can. Modern capitalism isn't about improving efficiency and competition, although these do sometimes happen. It's about profit.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that, it's worked well most of the last 250 years or so. But we need to be hard-headed about the downside as well as the upside. When was the last time you heard a multinational company say "we have too big a market share and are making too much money"?

If you regard a universal postal system as a core requirement of a modern state, as I do, this to me means treating it as different from a conventional commercial business - in the same way as health is, water / sewerage ought to be (and maybe electricity and railways ought to be).

In my view these essential services should either be publicly owned or run by not-for-profit arms-length enterprises, not sold off to provide short-term capital or for ideological reasons.

In the days of Edward II, the Royal Mail would have been happy in his hands. These days, well, just don't count on the cards you posted yesterday getting there before Christmas when the unions walk out on Monday and don't return until 4th...

#53

Yip! I guess we will see a polution of whitevan-men, parcel et al going missing.

Aint it strange that those PFI and PPP deals
are just as expensive as public ownership?

Look out big mama! the NHS as we know it!
might well become the next target (not many let now) they will probably scrap the NI payments in turn for private insurance.

Then man up the out-buildings with the sick and the lame to doctor themselves.

Mind you, 25 million parents, like me, don't have anything to thank TNT for. Mandy wasn't here when that one happened or he might not have made this glorious faux pas de deux with those boneheads.

#54
And by what manner would a publically owned PO not be allowed to be an international winner?

I like to think people have a better worth than the private sector offers.

Do you want a world class business that pays low wages, under-mans it's operation's and does not offer a final pension salary? I guess you do!

Why do you persist in thinking that capitalism is better than the public sector?

#18 "Doubtless he sees being unpopular with the usual Labour suspects as a political advantage, both personally and for the Government."

I have never understood Mandelson being hailed as a political genius. No doubt journalists have believed his spin. In terms of the popular vote, the electoral arithmetic for Labour has been pathetic since 1997: 40.7% in 2001 and 35.3% in 2005. Hardly a mandate, but it just so happens that the Tories did worse. Compare this with 1951 when Clement Attlee got 48.8% and lost. (Churchill only got 44.3%)*

Anyway, one of the big problems with the Labour party now is lack of members. I can tell you as an ex-member, that Mandelson's influence was one of the biggest factors in people leaving the party.

* Funny, Churchill was PM twice, but, as Tory leader, never did win the popular vote in a general election. Which just shows the ridiculousness of the first past the post system.

You know, I think I'm going off long drinks based on gin from a green bottle...

However, on consideration, I think I know what I'll be doing with my savings instead. In accordance with our new status as a third-world power, our village has lost its banks and will now lose its post office, leaving it five miles from the nearest cash, which is unmanageable if, like many of the pensioners who make up half the village, you don't drive.
We've already got a Credit Union, so if I'm getting nothing for my dosh from a bank, then I'd prefer to see one of the locals benefit from it, rather than adding to the unnecessarily obscene stash of some corrupt banker.

I suspect we could get a decent thread started on Ship of Fools, updating Jesus' sayings, like "you'll never take it with you"..."Render unto Gordon the things that are Gordon's and render unto Gord the things that are God's". I wonder what his father was like?

#59
Can you name a single privatised monopoly which isn't ripping off it's clients, from the bank cartel to the energy companies? That's why it's a nonsense.
I'd rather see it in the hands of the Boy Scouts.

This is the man who, in a Hartlepool chippy asked for "some of that guacamole"... which turned out to be mushy peas....








Can anyone possibly take him seriously????

derekbarker

#54
And by what manner would a publically owned PO not be allowed to be an international winner?

Would we give all the foreign workers a final salary pension scheme?
You really don’t think before you speak.
Short sightedness is not just a visual problem.

#64

It doesn't matter where people come from
thats a very poor excuse not to offer a final salary pension! Dontcha think so!

Long term employees are entitled to what on offer!

Look kid! get a back bone, if you tolerate this, then your children will be next! wil be next!

derekbarker

That dates you you’re a Tory era baby.

We are broke now all spent up. We can't bail out the world. We have to get used to being an IMF debtor.

I was a Labour Wilson Callaghan baby.

My son is a New Labour baby one of 5 who hate them.

Get the pattern

#66

You can get a history lesson for free at any local library.

Look at the 2005 manifesto pledge?
repeat, not to privatise royal mail!

Look PUBLIC,PRIVATE, PARTNERSHIP of the royal mail is not repeat is not a savings!

Why close a post office when the local private bank may just rip you off?

It's quite a marvel that in the modern day of Sunday opening and 24 hour shopping the local Post Office can still be relied on the be shut for a half day on the day you desperately need to post something (and not open on Sunday at all).

If you've ever had the dubious pleasure of working for Royal Mail you'll know that promotion to management is based solely on the inventive efficiency of an individual to avoid work altogether. Once management is achieved most of that individuals time will be spent napping in meetings and avoiding dealing with the people that actually do the work, other than bullying and chastising them in the mistaken belief this will boost output.

The only way to improve Royal Mail is probably some level of privatisation as it's likely to be the only way the hard descisions for effective change can be made. Almost as sad as the empty shelves when shopping in Woolies today.

Peter Mandelson is not popular with many, nor is he trusted. So now we know why he has come back, to help Gordon flog anything else we have to foreigners. It is outragous that so much of our infastructure has been allowed to fall into foreign hands. This can not be healthy, especially as we go forward to the worst recession of our time. Will this government leave nothing for the future, apart from massive debt?

Although I believe the Royal Mail could have saved millions over the years by simply examining the costly differences between 1st class and 2nd class mail (go on, work it out!) I feel that Mr Mandelson's announcement is not good for the Royal Mail.

Here's a lighter note thought. What will Mr Mandelson be known as next?
He's had many nicknames over the years, other than the obvious "Mandy". There was the affectionate "Prince of Darkness", the "Spindoctor" and "Lord Mandelson of Rio", "The Notting Hill Loaner", "Sinister Dome Minister", and in his own words the "Secretary of State for Ireland". I doubt that "The fighter", "The Milk Man" or "Maserati Man" is appropriate…and "Voldemolt" does indeed have the right kind of ring to it!
Perhaps "Mandelsky" will serve a better tag in the future, or maybe even "The Stamp Licker" which is my current favourite!

The plan is to sell everything to Europe, but we will still be broke when that's done, and repopulated by immigrants sent by France.

The final solution in disposing of the troublesome British.

#71 hodgeey

..not the troublesome British - the troublesome English!

The stench of slime is breathtaking.

https://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html

When I once asked a very high profile person (a Christian) which party he thought Jesus would support were he alive today.

His answer was - "Labour, just read the Sermon on the Mount".

Well read it. Anything like the policies or ideals of NuLabour?

There is a third way....

Privatise by franchise methods Post Office Counters i.e the public interface...


The model is already there and works via organisations like WHSmith....

It would not be too difficult (imho) to ensure that every city,town,village,hamlet that has previously had an old fashioned Post Office should have the facility again via the likes of Tesco (who are buying up a lot of the old Post Office stock - in places like Worcester) and other supermarket chains....

These supermarkets chains - most of them - also havethe financial service arms - that could operate the "peoples bank" advocated by many e.g cheap affordable no-risk no credit (i.e simple old fashioned debit card banking you can spend what you have) banking - again in to every city,towna nd hamlet that needs it...

In terms of distribution - the "dirty" loss making part of the business that is less attractive - by all means bring in the likes of DHL/TNT etc...but again use a farnchise method to encourage them to work in PARTNERSHIP with the reorganised slimline Royal Mail...you dont need a Geography Degree to work out a method whereby the attractive and profitable big cities could be tagged to nearby rural and less profitable areas....that way the coverage and service is universal.....Rural Wales and Rural Scotland - could be covered by central budget where required from the National assemblies in Edinburgh and Cardiff....

Mandelson has some good ideas,the Tories and Lib Dems have some good ideas....there is absolutely NO REASON why we cannot retain a Mail Service....profitable accesible to all....

Quite where the "royal" bit would fit in to this I dont know....but whats "royal" in this context other than an outdated word???

So Crash uses political expediency to bring back a figure of derision to announce an unpalatable truth.

Can we now expect the knives to be out to ensure that Mandy's career is once more stubbed out?

I see "Barking" has been busy here today.

Listen, the upshot is that your frothing "socialists" have been in charge, and royally stuffed up the country. You clearly think that all a Comrade has to do is print some more cash, and everyone can be wealthy.

Stop reading Ben Elton's 90's material and start dealing with the real world; your dream has been sold down the river by your employers; the worst sort of champagne socialists, the sort that need a revolution to remove their self-interested tinkering and corruption.

It was TNT who lost the 25million names on the computer disc and one or two others.

The price obtained for this will be interesting to watch.

The Royal Mail is sat on an absolute fortune in property, 10 properties alone around Old Street, an enormous block just of Oxford Street and the rest.

The track record of New Labour does not bode well for tax-payer value here.

The RM directors will do nicely thank you.

Lets remember how much two people have already made out of this badly run company. Over the 5 years Crozier and Leighton have been trying to run the business they have recieved near on £10m each.
As for people commenting on unions striking for the sake of it, get real, unions are trying to save people's jobs, to keep something in the public sector and provide a service that everyone really wants.
To sell any part of the business to TNT or such like is a backward step and really sums up this country today.
I'm proud to be British and I'm proud to be a postal worker, I just hope that the powers behind all this really do care about the British public!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Well I'm back from a two week's holiday and hardly read the papers, saw TV or listened to the radio. Instead, I went around and experienced life, listening and observing how other people live.
I'm unsure if this forum is the correct one to state what I saw in Curaca, Venezuala, -so hope this isn't off topic. Socialism I had thought had reached new lows with Lord Mandy, but he is a novice compared to Chavez. This 'socialist' lives in the middle of a military compound, expensive buildings surrounded by vast manicured lawns and gardens. It was here that he received his friend Ken Livingstone, whilst most people living under his regime barely have enough to eat. Garbage remains uncollected, starving dogs lay down and die in the streets, whilst the politicans drive on the broken roads in huge automobiles.
Lord Mandy and the rest of Nu Labour, are as I mentioned novices compared to this regime. Novices however learn, and whatever we may think of his moral ethos, Mandelson, as many others in Brown's government is a wily and quick learner.

83

I misspelt Caracas. Apologies.

I've seen nothing in the report to convince me that RM shouldn't have
remained a state monpoly.

His recommendation to find a minority private stakeholder looks to me like
he's just paid lip-service to any notion of independence, and is carrying
out the politicos' wishes to get mail privatised come what may. There's no
vision. There's no clarity of thought. There's no imagination.

In his report, Hooper acknowledges the present state of affairs is a
disaster. I believe that had the state monopoly not been threatened with
the advent of competition, we would be fairly contented when turning our
minds to matters postal- the public, and we, used to be justifiably proud of
our Post Office- it was an excellent and fair service, the envy of the
world: only since competition was introduced has the service been run down,
and the poorer.

I concede that there could have been moves to make it more efficient, and
thus cheaper/ and/or/ more profitable; I don't think, though, that
competition is the way to do it, and preserve the USO.

Reading the Questions about overall objectives (which is why we're all here,
after all...), I am at a loss to understand why competition and privateering
is felt to be desirable, except obvious self-interest).

Responses to those questions tell a story. Everyone is happy with RM as an
entity, with it's position in the market, and it's having sole obligation to
the USO.

The main concerns about RM seem to be price, q of s, reliability, and choice
of products.

I don't have a problem with people setting up businesses to handle mail/bulk
postings/letter-stuffing/etc. They can source/collect and sort and bring it
all to the delivery offices if they wish, just as now.

Everyone, almost, appears to want to see transparency of costs within RM: if
RM remains a state owned company, fair enough.

So; price, q of s, reliability, and choice of products.

Is it really necessary to hive off part, a half, virtually, of RM- and to
foreign investors- to achieve desirable results there?

Commercial interests were recognised to have made criticisms without any
evidence to back them up during the investigations made prior to the report.
(hmmm...sounds familiar)

It is acknowledged that DA is priced too low (which I have been saying for a
long time), and that it should cover costs and provide a reasonable profit.

It also understands that commercial operators were likely to cherry-pick,
thus undermining the USO unless some remedy to this be found. Perhaps if
DA was set at realistic levels, and RM was at least guaranteed price
stability in real terms and was free to introduce new products and services,
the costs of the USO could be covered.

RM would have to stay within acceptable price limits. Even I understand
that putting prices up willy-nilly is only likely to lose business.

Customers want a frequent, reliable, dependable and high-quality service.
Since the introduction of competition, we have seen a shift in quality and
quantity of service from RM that many see as a depreciation in service
levels- no more second delivery, only one daily collection, later, less
predictable deliveries, PO closures, etc.

RM has subsequently also lost a share of the bulk market (up to 40%) which
has had "a negative impact on the company's financial health".

It is "generally accepted" that only the large business users of RM have
benefitted although it appears at least one person is complaining that we
are not doing enough of his/her work for the money he/she is getting because
of our presentation requirements.

SMEs and domestic consumers have been adversely affected except on
deadline-delivery performance, which has been successfully improved.

Much is made of the decline in mail volumes, yet revenues are up since
e-fulfillment yields more than has been lost to e-substitution. It is
perverse of RM's Board to claim that the company did not expect to recover
those revenues. GET OUT THERE AND FIGHT FOR THE BUSINESS!!!

If you ask certain people, and I have, about the volume of traffic going out
on delivery this year compared to last, you'll be told, as I was, that there
is about 3% less this year (there is a margin of error here since methods of
assessing volumes have changed).

It's significant, granted, but it generally doesn't mean I deliver to less
houses. And where a few years ago I may have had a few more letters, I now
carry much more weight. This makes the job harder for me, and slows me
down; but, weight=revenue, and size=revenue. Check out the size and weight
of The National Trust mail, or She magazine, or Sky magazine. It is
reasonable to assert that the value of my bags is now greater compared to
the past, at least the recent past.

As for my having to deliver yet more mail in less time at a speed comparable
with the Light Infantry; this time I shall say no more except I have a
picture in my mind's eye of Mr. Crozier walking briskly about the Boardroom
table, down the corridor to his brisk (but warm, like Ms Moneypenny) PA's
office, dictating in double-quick time, before briskly going to the loo and
briskly back to his office for a brisk cup of coffee whilst he briskly
catches up on his notes before briskly compiling more notes and briskly
presenting his latest ideas to a pricked-eared, state-of-alert Allen
Leighton for his brisk attention and brisk response before they briskly call
for a brisk rickshaw to briskly ferry them to who knows where for a brisk
who knows what with a brisk who knows whom in a brisk attempt at
cost-cutting.

Nick

Perhaps you can ask the following, rather important questions of the Governement and the Trustees.

1. If the Royal Mail is in public ownership, how come the Government can make its support of the pension scheme conditional?

My understanding is that a solvent employer has no option - it must support the scheme and is legal obliged to agree a funding plan with the Trustees with 15 months of the triennial actuarial review.

2. As a general rule, the more solid an employer the more relaxed the Trustees can be about the factors that they use to set their Technical Provisons (AKA Libilities).

If the Royal Mail Pension Scheme has - in the Government - a solvent and supportive sponsoring employer then the Trustees can
indeed take a prudent yet pragmatic view of future funding.

The Trustees should be asking for a view on the strength of the Employer Covenant at each Trustees' Meeting. If they see a change in ther sponsoring employers willingness (or otherwsie) to support the scheme, they will have to adjust their view of the Employer Covenant. It would appear that through its support of the Hooper Review the Employer (The Governement) is making its support of the scheme conditional on a commercial transaction..

It does seem a little bizarre that the Trustees have allied themselves with this particular transaction. Whilst I understand that they will see the protection of members' benefits that this solution purports to provide as an attractive option, it does seem a somehwat risky strategy.

What if the vote fails? Where do the Trustees go then? Why are they not simply demanding the full unconditional support of the scheme from the employer?

That is what happens in the private sector!

Dear Nick,
please could someone enlighten me .
I thought Peter Mandelson lost his seat in the commons, the electorate voted for someone else instead. Why is this elected person not making the decisions about the Royal Mail?
Why is Peter Mandelson still a minister?
Is this democracy..........
Please let us have an elected House of Lords.
And please voters select a Lord on the basis of her/his ability as a person not on their politics.
And please ban all former MPs from serving in the House of Lords.