Banks to lend more

Yes, but among its headline measures designed to "help small businesses" at this critical juncture, is the Government still planning quietly to slip in a punitive tax on family-owned businesses (held over from last year as too complex to draft) into the PBR report?

Certainly many small businesses are in dire straits due to the inability to receive financing. Many of them are successful and are successfully paying off the initial loans.

However many of them have basically lived with the debt for years, paying just the interest rather than trying to pay off the loan itself.

Before lending - or giving guarantees, the Government should find out what the companies' attidtude to debt has been in the past. If they have not tried to repair the roof and reduce debt when the sun was shining should they really be bailed out when it starts raining?

Funny that - sounds just like the Labour Government . . .

If the government are going to force banks to lend money to businesses then the idea of a guarantee scheme put forward by the conservatives to underwrite this is essential.

This is already practised with the EU money under the government's loan guarantee scheme.

Unfortunately with the LGS the interest rates companies have to pay for this money is well above the standard interest rate which is why in the past few companies have taken advantage of it.

Everyone is just going to have to accept that there is no such thing as cheap money any more.

Get the new scheme in before the elections, and make sure the banks don't foreclose until after the ballots have closed!

So let us set up a business loaning money to buy-toilet borrowers at huge multiples of income and on vastly overvalued properties....(and get a government guarantee.)

This is the gigantic risk behind lending money on a non-commercial basis. Many daft schemes will get the money and re inflate the bubble.

It is all about the detail and I have absolutely no confidence in those currently running any of our institutions to get it half-way right!

The plain fact is that they have made money virtually worthless by running interest rates at too low a level and this will mean that insane business schemes will appear profitable and (wrongly) worthy of a loan guarantee.

What I want to know is why David Miliband appears to be doing the job that Tony Bliar is currently supposed to do?

Why is it necessary to waste two Labour Politicians on the Middle East peace process?

Does Gordon Brown think we are made of money?

Just more meaningless words from the government. How can you force banks to lend money to businesses that may go bust as consumers tighten their belts during this recession?

Every business that does go bust with all that extra money you lent them just further undermines the banks financial position. You know, the one that's already ropey enough as it is.

That's just throwing good money after bad.

Anyway it looks like the banks are finished. Their share prices continue to slide even with all this cash or promise of cash. The government will end up owning all the banks anyway. The urge to 'Do a Railtrak' will be too overwhelming for them. Then they can lend their own (our) money to whoever they like.

The tax payers have pumped billions into banks in order to provide liquidity across the country.


How naive are this government if they didn't insist right up front as a condition that the banks will be required to lend and promote liquidity?



Unfortunately we know from almost everything this government touch that they have zero commercial nouse.


Give 'em a bit of socialist rhetoric to play with and they are fine. Wealth distribution. Minimum wage. African debt. Lap top for every child.

Labour totally fall over, however, when it comes to commercial negotiation and common sense:

1. PFI - how many extra billions do we pay over and above the cost of buying these schools and hospitals outright?

2. Gold - alert the market and ensure you achieve minimum price when you sell.

3. Loans to banks - ooops. We forgot to get any guarantees to ensure lending, when one of our key objectives was to increase liquidity.

4. Privitisation of DRA / QinetiQ - the NAO concluded that the tax payer was done over and the investing companies made an inappropriate 20,000% return on their money.


Labour would serve the country better if it decided never to enter government again and evolved to become a "pressure group".

Government requires people who can manage and effect change. The Labour party do not have those skills. They are reliant on spin to 'fake' achievement through smoke and mirrors.

The lead article in the Sun today sums up Labour's achievements since 1997:


Labour's contribution after 11 years

Who is going to run this bank? Would it be the CEO's who had to resign from the banks who were going bust? Or would it be someone from the Treasury?

Labour lies are believed only by the stupid.

Nick,

you can't make this up!

The solution would be for the nationalised banks to have government appointees on the board. Also all the employees should become employees of the state. Sorry but is that not what nationalisation means. The miners became state employees, or are all the workers to be like doctors when the NHS was established, that is Independent contractors within the state system.

Oh and maybe the bankers ought to sign the official secrets act.

The Prime Minister has difficult issues of banks management quality and relationship with small business to overcome. The hard part is getting banks to accept their role in creating this problem and getting over themselves. That's not going to be easy.

The oppositions ideas have some merit but they're not a problem free exercise. For instance, how does the Liberal idea of a national bank deal create the necessary banking DNA, and how are the Tories "government guarantees" going to avoid sucking in bad debt that will be a ticking time bomb that our children will pick up the tab for?

I've generally been unhappy with some of the lurid comments and partisan attitude kicking around at a parliamentary and more everyday comment level. Grandstanding and nastiness just blocks solutions and makes it more difficult to build agreement. Perhaps, as the pre-Budget report gets closer some more maturity and consensus will emerge.

The banks just can’t be trusted

Where is the help needed? – Small to medium businesses where all the jobs are at risk. The very businesses who just haven't got the clout to deal with banks.

The scheme exists already – Small Firms Loan Guarantee Scheme; some fine tuning required to deal with current scenario. Not grants, loans with a premium rate of interest. Applicants vetted for viability

Historic problem with the scheme – operated by Banks, hardly used – need I say more.

Who else could administer it? Traditional government “consultants”, not quite, far too interested in big bucks. The PFI brigade or the people who “ran” the SATS or the grants to students – not quite.

The answer may just be the lower- and mid-tier accountants who deal with these businesses on a day to day basis. Sure there are risks but are I can’t think that we’re exposed to £27bn of risk. Whatever, the help is needed now and as each day passes the banks are withdrawing facilities from normally viable businesses

Two wins in a row then for David Cameron. Last week within hours of PMQ's the Govt announced the Independent Iinquiry he had asked for at PMQ's and now they have spun they will be helping small busines's in the way both Cameron and Clegg demanded at PMQ's without any response from the PM.Keep up the good work David !!

The question shouldn't be how to get banks to lend "more", but to ensure they lend responsibly.

Lending too much to people who could not afford to repay is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Equally, the government has a duty not to borrow so much on our behalf that the country can't afford to repay in the future.

Brown seems determined to plunge the country into bankruptcy.

He doesn't care how much he borrows today because he knows it won't be him who has to pay the bills tomorrow.

Will the people fall for his electioneering bribes? We will see.....

Nice to know that things are going so well for small businesses that we can all wait until next week for the pre-budget report, which may or may not have measures that will be enacted immediately, and which may be aspirations and not actions.

It is clear from Brown's demeanor that he 'thinks he has got away with it'

Problem is, the rest of us are awaiting the chickens!

Nick,

I thought that since the last PMQs some of our soldiers had died in Afghanistan, or don't Ghurkas count any more. My point I thought it interesting that there was no naming of the dead as there have been previously. Or was that a convention which has now come to an end, bit like running down the country.

Just a thought!

The Bank should be called The Champagne Supernova Savings Bank. When it goes bang, which it undoubtedly will, it will cause a massive black hole which will eat up vast amounts of our cash, and no-one will be able to escape it.

You can bet that the Government will get the champagne.

#12 CEH

But Charles, most of our Government (with the exception of GB) have legal, financial, banking and economic backgrounds. I can't believe that these so-called experts with their armies of advisors didn't realise the banks would hold on to the money.

I think a more realistic answer would be that the public were duped into propping up the banks and GB was probably advised of the outcome before it even happened.

10 power_2_the_people

" Labour lies are believed only by the stupid"

Are you trying say the Conservatives are better at getting away with it? I agree with you for once.

"The Prime Minister has difficult issues of banks management quality and relationship with small business to overcome."

I think unquestionably this is your most meaningless, vacuous and ridiculous statement yet, Charles and that really is saying something.

"...how are the Tories "government guarantees" going to avoid sucking in bad debt that will be a ticking time bomb that our children will pick up the tab for?"

You may not have noticed, but Gordy has already guaranteed the bank's liabilities. Do try to keep up. Our children are picking up the tab for your mate, Gordon's profligacy, incompetence and waste, anyway, Charlie boy, so why not this too?

So, if the sensible answer was to create a nationalised bank to support British businesses, why was Labour's first reaction to give billions of pounds of taxpayer's money to the commercial banks?

Perhaps the plan to recapitalise these parasitic banks should be re-thought or even scrapped? After all, with a nationalised bank to service business and the public homeloan requirement, who needs it? That would save the public massive amounts of money and place the commercial risks of commercial banking firmly where it belongs - on the shoulders of the shareholders. They are quick enough to take the dosh in the good times, not it is time to feel the pain.

Of course, Clown McBrown would never do a U-turn on his wonderful plan to save the world. The man is a fool.

I opened a bottle of champagne this evening as I mistook it for a sparkling white.

I'm fast-forwarding in my mind to 2010 when Labour lose the election.

Come on peeps, party with me.

re: 20, dhwilkinson

If I was trying to say the Conservatives are better at getting away with it I would've said that.

What I said was Labour's lies are believed only by the stupid, and that is what I meant.

If the government are putting pressure on banks to pass on the rate cut to borrowers and small businesses, shouldn't it also logically be putting pressure on landlords to pass on the rate cut to their tenants in the form of lower rents?

A Labour government certainly shouldn't be using all taxpayers money to favour the small proportion of the population who own large amounts of property.

Nick,

on the Daily Politics it was said that in respect of the new laws from Ms Smith concerning prostitutes and trafficked women that men will not be able to plead 'I didn't know' even if he checked but was misled, or lied to.

I hope we can expect the same from the judges when they eventualy face Bush/Blair/Brown and others when they plead that they did not know that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, or that they did not know what was going on at Guantalamo Bay, about extra-ordinary rendition.

The judges should surely respond it is not acceptable that you plead you did not know. You should have done, that is why you are the leaders and those under you are the led.

I want charges, and I want Lord Bingham and others to tell us why they remained silent. Oh, and lift all injinctions restricting freedom of expression and speech. You know who I mean.

#25 beautyscientist

Indeed. One of our "landlords" is none other than our own prime minister, who apparently has a house he is renting out.

When you take into account people like Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper who, as MP's, are both entitled to own two properties each, it's little wonder Labour look after their own.

#27

I remember T Dan Smith and Paulson in the North East during the sixties. As for mortgage applications when can we expect fraud charges for those people who overstated their income, or made false applications.

26 TAG

Oh, if only...if only.

#28

Oooohhh let's start with Mandleson...!

I thought that since the last PMQs some of our soldiers had died in Afghanistan, or don't Ghurkas count any more. My point I thought it interesting that there was no naming of the dead as there have been previously. Or was that a convention which has now come to an end, bit like running down the country.

Milliband is taking a sensible and agreeable tone with the Syrians. You could swap the people and topic for the banking situation and it suggests how a much more useful consensus can develop.

People can hair-shirt themselves over rules and alliances but remaining at the level of skill and support is the work of a mere technician. The secret to success is in your approach, or mastery.

"This cannot be taught".

The banks have failed. Not up to the job even though the job is quite an easy one compared to things like running (or just working in) a fast food restaurant.

So yes, let's stop messing about and let's get them under state (i.e. our) control. And, having done that, let's just have the one bank instead of a whole load of them falling over reach other to offer us products we don't really need. Competition? Don't make me laugh.

party a wants to do this, party b wants to do that, party c wants to do the other.

grief what a bunch of media hungry loosers we have in westminster.

what are they planning to do to help joe public, nothing but if you start a small business you can obtain a loan and drop yourself into higher debt trying to stay afloat whilst the ecconomy is tightened.
more people will end up bankrupt or near bankrupt forcing more unemployment and dispair.

i can only assume those fools in westminster are attempting an american style system in this country that will drive people pushed under pressure to suicide or worse, will they ever learn?.

joe public needs assurance that home basics will remain affordable and that food will continue to be a fair price not told to go out and risk all on a business venture in these ecconomic times.

this government has failed the people in so many ways it saddens me that so many still blindly believe they are doing there jobs.

on the Daily Politics it was said that in respect of the new laws from Ms Smith concerning prostitutes and trafficked women that men will not be able to plead 'I didn't know' even if he checked but was misled, or lied to.

This sounds like 'due diligence'. I suspect, this is being brought in to stop people getting off the hook with the 'prove it' style of defence. If an police investigation proves that the 'look and feel' of the situation suggests someone should've suspected something was wrong it will help people complicit in crime being held accountable.

In other eye popping news, America and Europe, under the NATO umbrella, and Russia are staging an enforcement operation to combat piracy in the Gulf of Aden. Effort tends to follow focus, and it looks like the success of the global effort on finance and concern for people on the ground may be influencing other issues in helpful ways.

Gordon saves the world... AGAIN.

Has the Shadow Chancellor nothing to say in these difficult economic times? Has he stood down to spend more time with his oligarchs?

#31

My point is that if you read some of my earlier posts you will understand that I have previously accused the PM of using the naming of the dead to bring about a sombre mood in the house. It would seem that my views are listened to, and acted upon.

Shame on the PM I think that he and Blair before him know that it is they who consigned our soldiers to their deaths and that they have blood on their hands. He has been using the deaths for political and emotional reasons, shame on them all.

A plague on all their houses!

"Talking to Tory MPs, I have found that they fall into roughly two camps: those who think Mr Osborne is useless and should go, and those who think he is useless but should stay, because of the embarrassment of having to get rid of him."

"Others still are frustrated by Mr Cameron's refusal to expand the closed circle around him and take advice from some old sweats, even some who might not have been at Eton."

Source : Simon Heffer, Daily Telegraph

Looks like the tories have finally woken up to the great mistake they made over 3 years ago electing an image not a politcal leader.

Bill

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

RE 28 & 30

Mandelson.

YES.

A vote for Labour is a vote for slavery. I dunno about you, but I don't want a bar code tattooed on the back of my neck.

If any Labour activists are reading this, listen well: millions of people will resist your evil DNA database. You won't get away with it, but you will burn in hell.

John Sargeant had the good sense to step down today, is it not time Brown realises he has overstayed his welcome.

Re Bank Lending?????????????????


Time to turn away bad business.

Its SIMPLE SIMON STUFF.

We hit nearly 20 million pounds worth of

bad debt today for this year.

Last year was 3.1 million pounds.

Thats why the Banks are sitting on the cash.

6 youngerap

Just as a point of information - Blair isn't bankrolled by us, he works for the UN as a diplomat

I want a blog about Jaqui Smith being a complete idiot! I'm bored of banks, Nick

POST 36

I couldnt agree MORE.

Some people here have short memories, or are too young to remember the early 1990s. My business was one with an overdraft that the bank threatened to pull at a month's notice. Kind to a fault, they pointed out that I was a personal guarantor, but not to worry as they would give me a personal loan at 29.9% APR to meet my obligations. I begged and pleaded, pulled through, and since then have paid hundreds of thousands in tax but it was a close run thing.

Equally there are small businesses that are not viable, either because the owner does not have the necessary management skills, or because it's a business that no one could make a go of (perhaps because of changing circumstances or markets) and in such cases banks do the owner no favours by advancing yet more money.

The reality is that a recession invokes an economic Darwinism, survival of the fittest. What is needed is a triage approach, identifying those businesses that can make it through with help, and abandoning those that are beyond hope. But there would be no votes in saying so!

Sergeant Is a gentleman thats why he stood down.

Obviously i couldnt possibly comment on Brown.

My comment has been moderated because I highlighted two excellent Channel 4 programmes shown this week about the financial crisis and the ascent of money.

you can see then on their Watch online facility.

Bet this doesn't get past the moderators either!

Channel4

Bremner, Bird and Fortune

The Ascent of Money

Must watch

BBC

What

do

we

pay

our

money

for

Bill@37

I don't think Osborne & Hague went to Eton ...

Smiths prostitute thing is just so she cite a 'good' reason to have ID cards -- so punters can check that a prostitute is not trafficked before doing the business.

The english collective of prostitutes say that many women choose this line of work purely as a 'business'.

However it is clear that some women would only be of any interest to a very specialist market, which might not support a business -- I suppose such women could be bitter, and want to stop others making a free choice.

Banks won't start lending until they're well capitalised again and house prices appear to be stabilising. This is a market fact that no amount Gov't intervention or nationalisation can alter. It's called "the market".

So we will have to wait until interest rates cuts make their impact and in the meantime businesses will fail and people like me will become unemployed.

This was all preventable had Gordon Brown set up a tripartite system for financial regulation with teeth and foresight. The guy failed and the bubble was born.

The economy now needs to deflate to find it's "natural" level and we all have to accept that Gordon pumped the economy up on perpetual injections of steriod like borrowings both public and private. ........and he now wants to ADD to this. What folly!

Nationalising the banks, like all nationalisations before them will end in utter catastrophe because they won't be able to act commercially. It will be yet another Gordon Brown instrument designed solely for injecting the economy with more borrowing steriods.

Labour are following a S**T or bust strategy. Either they'll leavre behind an almighty economic mess or they'll get relected on the back of another hollow Brown boom and then have 5 years to do what they should be doing now!

My point is that if you read some of my earlier posts you will understand that I have previously accused the PM of using the naming of the dead to bring about a sombre mood in the house. It would seem that my views are listened to, and acted upon.

Perhaps, but there's also a risk you're being a bit judgemental and not giving people credit where it's due. If you're aware of this it can help you take avoid getting sucked in by ambition and insensitivity, and delusions of grandeur and paranoia. Not saying you're a carpet chewing egomaniac...

The reality is that a recession invokes an economic Darwinism, survival of the fittest. What is needed is a triage approach, identifying those businesses that can make it through with help, and abandoning those that are beyond hope. But there would be no votes in saying so!

It's important to get real and help people where you can. Labour seems to have a positive angle on both these things but could do with more polish. As for the opposition parties, really, it's up to them to level up. If they can do that it would be better for them and help improve the overall maturity of British politics.

BankSlickerminustheR @48

Agreed. The first BB&F explained the issues very clearly. As well as being funny.

I have been reading some interesting facts about Sir Thomas Dalyell of the Binns (aka Tam Dalyell) long serving Labour MP (43 years), Father of the House after Heath's retirement in 2001 until his own retirement in 2005, anti-war campaigner (Aden, Diego Garcia, Falklands, Kosovo, Iraq x2 etc.) Lockerbie campaigner, major critic of Blair for his war policies ("I will resist a war with every sinew in my body") and the man who voted against his own government frequently (in 1978/9 over 100 times, despite three-line whips) and who first posed the (still unanswered) West Lothian Question.

To quote a Harry Enfield character "What a guy!"

However, he was educated at Eton so I suppose we will have to dismiss him as a toff.

And George Orwell went to Eton as well, so I guess we dismiss him too.

Let's just remember who was responsible for the mess that we in the UK are now in. Gordon Brown, as confirmed by the G20 Summit statement section 3 "Root causes of the Crisis" put in place a failed regulatory system.

British banks have not just been brought to their knees, by poor American debt, it's their poor lending in the UK as well.

How much longer can he get away without this misinformation being nailed by the Opposition and Press?

@49 Pammyammy (or is it pot_kettle)

Best tell your mate Simon Heffer - it was a direct quote from him. I could not care less where they went to school.

Bill

Government cannot make banks lend more at all.

It's completely fallacious.

What's the government going to do?

Force a boardroom vote?

With what, a majority shareholding?

The problem with the economy isn't the availability of credit, it's generating aggregate demand using cash as a means of payment.

Consider the facts.

1. UK LIBOR 12-m is still hovering around 4.25% such is the risk of lending between other banks.

The BoE can cut rates all it likes, they aren't going to get passed on to anyone. The only people that won't like it, overseas holders of UK debt and Sterling.

2. Credit insurance for small businesses is going up and more and more firms cannot obtain this insurance such is the risk of bankruptcy.

3. In the MPC minutes from last month, the BoE wanted to cut rates by 2.5% but feared a run on Sterling. Again, running the risk of imported inflation and a further slump in demand.

Incidentally, Osborne was absolutely right, 100% correct.

Now Brown might be a self-appointed global economic colossus but let's consider his actions so far..

1. Shoring up the banks, well, the ones that were poorly capitalised took the money, the others have found alternative funding.

2. And?

Talk of fiscal stimulus and debt levels unseen since the dark days of the late 1970s...

A Keynesian splurge and debt levels unseen since the dark days of the late 1970s.

Meanwhile, the Opposition are calling for corporation tax cuts for small business and NI cuts for all employers.

And a national lending bank for small businesses.

To keep the cash flow running, save jobs, make it cheaper for firms to employ staff, to retain or hire new.

Brown is dithering, why do we have to wait for the PBR?

Because he has all his toy soldiers lined up to spin, prevaricate, double announce previous measures and take 'global' action.

Then grin like a maniac as 100,000s of jobs go and firms go bust.

If Brown wanted to get the economy moving, it is all about aggregate demand, Keynesian's and Monetarist's both agree that.

My remedy:

Abolish tax credits. Re-introduce the 10p tax rate starting at £9,000 earned income. 23p tax another £5,000 after that, 40p another £30,000 after that. NI to start at 9,000 at a flat 6% on all income over that.

Some of the lowest-paid would not pay any income tax at all.

Slash VAT from 17.5 to 10% until further notice, zero-rate domestic energy.

Paid for by dropping ID Cards, Children's database and Surveillance database - £20bn saved (or rather not borrowed).

Then close all RDAs and a 30bn rationalisation of quangos and committees with immediate effect, a £32bn year on year saving.

Job done.

37 Billmcfadden


But even more interestingly it looks like this lot have woken up the mistakes made over the last 11 years

59 jonathan_cook

Sorry - I make a point of never reading a rag that has topless girls on page 3.

It tends not to be the best political commentary available.

Bill

#59 jonathan_cook

As Children's Minister, Ed Balls should be held accountable too. He took the job with all the trappings and he shouldn't escape blame either.

I said in a previous post that I wondered who would lose their job. It seems that once the public get involved in cases like this, heads start to roll.

I wait to see what will become of Ms Shoesmith and her three employees, and whether they will be adequately compensated for losing their jobs........I'll bet they will.

I notice recent comments on the various items on this blog advocate joining the Euro as being a prudent move for the UK in this current economic downturn.
There is also more than one call (usually mine) for proportional representation after elections to provide a fairer system of democracy.
The ideas in how to alleviate the current situation arise in the Commons as quickly as the problems are perceived.
Rushing into any particular policy could result in the deserving missing out and the opportunists cashing in. It strikes me that the best way out of immediate difficulties is to extend credit to small businesses in need.
Any use of official banks, post offices or local authorities to relieve the situation for small businesses waiting for slow debtors to pay or trying to finance bad debts would probably need to be targetted to short term relief.
But there is always the danger the unscrupulous take advantage of official aid. Believe me, I speak from experience!

60 Billmcfadden

I keep an eye on the political pages of The Sun.

The reason it is important to do that is to get a balanced opinion on what is happening.

The Sun political pages are a source of understanding where Rupert Murdoch stands on an issue. He generally tends to throw his weight and that of his media empire behind one party or another at election time.

The lead article from yesterday shows that the Murdoch empire think these things:

1. After 11 years Labour have achieved little despite doubling taxes

2. Labour's economic rescue plan is barking mad

3. David Cameron has a long way to go before he gets Murdoch Group backing, but he is moving a direction that may get their support.


The combined weight of The Sun, The Times and Sky is enough to start to sway the power of the left leaning BBC.

The Sun is well able to start a new "media narrative" , where Brown is given a well deserved public thrashing, which the rest of the media would pick up on and run with.

Dismiss The Sun at your peril.

Now this is quite serious.

It might cause the government to throw less cash at us in the forthcoming election bribe.

How much cash would Gordon need to bail out this lot?

Nick,

interesting that the retail sales figures show that sales have not declined as much as was anticipated, also mortgage lending is up.

So, can we now have interest rate rises, As I have said before, and also the tax increases which are required to prevent the next boom. We are told that we are now in a bust, so we have to prevent the next boom, because either that or Gordon Brown will bring about the next unsustainable boom.

He said that we would not have any more Tory boom and bust, well first we had the labour boom so as not to have boom and bust we must not have the next boom, if you follow! Boom bang a bang boom bang a bang.

In the meantime the occupation of Iraq continues, Somalia is a failed state with pirates, DR Congo is becoming a humanitarian disaster, China is still a problem in Chad/Cameroon, Dafur, now what is happening in that place, you get my drift. Afghanistan is silent again, we must have at least one death this week, or have we now retreated there as well without anybody saying anything.

Actually, after the visit of the Afghan President it does seem to have gone quiet, I wonder if we agreed to keep the troops indoors, and that all the deaths have again been for nothing.

Indeed, it seems as though the government have been taking some political driving lessons from David Cameron, taking a political 3 point turn in which they have clipped off the political wing mirrors of the political limo that Gordon Brown has badly parked.

Consequently, Gordon Browns political insurance policy wont cough up the political excess due to Mr Browns political driving liscense only being a provisional.

When he undertakes the political hazard perception prior to his political driving test in 2010s political general election we will see how many minor errors he makes, polically.

Bill@57

Yes, I know. Just shows how media correspondents don't bother to check facts. And this is a Grauniad household. I don't like people of any persuasion vomiting prejudice as fact.

#63 jonathan_cook

Thanks. You confirm something I have said here before.

The reason rabid, angry tories dislike the BBC so much, is that they would rather the media was controlled by a few multi-billionaires, accountable to no one. You assume they would have right wing views and poromote that agenda.

I would not get too excited if I were you sunshine. I heard it reported recently that even when he was low in the polls, Rupert Murdoch was still close to and an admirer of Gordon Brown. Apparently he views 'Dave' Cameron as an establishment toff, with little talent.

You made a grave error electing him in 2005. As usual with opposition parties to wanted to fight the last election you lost again. Big mistake.

Cameron will 'lead' the tories into the politcal wilderness, until they can admit to themselves they are wrong and have to change.

Thats why I luv him!

Bill

#68

It will be interesting because I think that you do not read the runes quite correctly.

I fear that the BNP are going to be the bolt hole for the underclass, the disaffected and those that are against government. Some people want to be free of all government interference, they just want to be left alone.

The trouble is the knock on the door will eventually come, be afraid very afraid, I think that people are going to be looking for the strong man, the man who can lead the country out of this, trouble is it may actually be a Lord, who shall remain nameless but I think you know who I mean. A man with no visible passion.

@ Bill 68

I agree. Cameron needs to sharpen his political machete if he wants to cut through the vines and thicket of the political jungle, as the constant bickering and being at odds with the government's economic policy whatever the decision, only debilitates him, giving him the demeanour of a political Scott of the Antarctic, good intentions, but ultimately beaten by lack of preparation and a relaxe dattitude.

Indeed he is almost seen as a political Dennis the Menace, as opposed to the fresh face he used to be, and the constant bashing of Labour showing only an act of political bullying giving him the new image of a political nasty.

68 Billmcfadden


You have very sweeping views. I think you'll find that most Conservatives believe in open and fair competition and that is the opposite of wanting the media controlled by a few billionaires.


The issue with the BBC is obvious. As tax payers we pay it to be impartial. Yet the BBC is a left leaning media empire - with a huge amount of sway over the voting public.

So what I was saying to you earlier, rather than get your news just from one source - it makes sense to build context through knowledge of multiple news sources.


You might not agree with The Sun - the point I was making, is that for the sake of context, it is worth keeping up to speed with what they are saying.

It seems to me, that the Tories new "spending cuts bombshell" revelation that they will not adhere to Labours public spending plans untill 2020 has only compounded the issues at stake.

These new measurse to get the banks to lend to small businesses will therefore need to be very drastic indeed. I suggest a politcal hydrogen bomb of loan guarantees and financial solvency support that will burst upon the UK economy like a water bomb full of liquid gold. At Gordons recent summit, the Americans told him you have to deal with economic collapse the same way you deal with war - through the ruthless application of superior fire power. Therefore I would hypothesise that Gordon's new measures will be a suprise to us all.

However, the prime minister and monetray policiy commission as well as the Bank of England are running out of financial bullets to fire, with the UK interest rate already cut down to a mere 3% and predicted to drop as low as 1%. The government really needs to stock up on financial ammunition from somewhere. I predict that Gordon Brown is likely to unleash a maelstrom of policies - that indeed, he will wage war on tax and lack of spending in a desperate effort to sustain financial growth in much the same way a pancreas sustains the growth of an unborn baby.

Interesting to see the increasing popularity of state power in political rhetoric.

Like US, this country is moving towards a new direction that is so remarkably Chinese, thanks to the economic turbulence.

Whatever schemes he comes up with, the outcome always seems to mean more jobs for public sector bureaucracts, (and thus more debt for future tax-payers) and more unemployment for private sector workers (because the public sector wastes everything it touches). We won't see light at the end of the tunnel until there are massive lay-offs in the public sector, which would make room for the tax cuts the economy needs. Better to put the public sector on the dole than to put the private sector on the dole !

41Tenmaya
I think you will find that John Sargeant dropped out because he thought he might win.
#John Sargeant had the good sense to step down today, is it not time Brown realises he has overstayed his welcome.

Gordon Brown wont drop out because he knows hes going to win.

Don't be surprised if the next two to drop out are Cameron and Osborne, the tories are beginning to realise they can't win, not with those two thats for sure.

PS I am sure Gordon wont be heartbroken to hear the you wont welcome him.

40ptppl

A vote for Labour is a vote for slavery. I dunno about you, but I don't want a bar code tattooed on the back of my neck.

Cant see how that would be a bad thing at least people would become aware that there's a rampant Tory about, I think all you Tories should have a bar code tattood on your neck. [joke]

#17
"I thought that since the last PMQs some of our soldiers had died in Afghanistan, or don't Ghurkas count any more. My point I thought it interesting that there was no naming of the dead as there have been previously."

I noticed this one too. A Ghurka and two Royal Marine Commandos. If you're going to start something like reading out the deceased then you have to follow it through. But that's our Prime Minister for you. He won't finish what he starts.

The least he could do, in my opinion, is to be there in person when the coffins come home, but no. He's too busy spending what isn't his.
Now he won't even read out the names of those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for their country. The man's a wretch.

Cameron should have showed him up, or is there some convention that you can't make a tribute if the PM hasn't?

#68 Bill

How on earth to do you conclude from Jonathan Cook's post #63 that he would prefer the media run by a few billionaires? I have read his post twice and I can't see it.

I would just like to get an idea of how left-wing brains work.

#73 onjournalism

I agree, although the reason is probably due to necessity more than ideology.

Would you agree?

Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:

on the Daily Politics it was said that in respect of the new laws from Ms Smith concerning prostitutes and trafficked women that men will not be able to plead 'I didn't know' even if he checked but was misled, or lied to.


This sounds like 'due diligence'. I suspect, this is being brought in to stop people getting off the hook with the 'prove it' style of defence.

Yes, the whole 'prove it' style of defense is a real annoyance to the prosecution and the government.

The only problem is that we are supposed to have a legal system that is based on the burden of proof being on the prosecution.

You might consider it 'due diligence' but most people would consider removing placing the burden of proof to be one step towards a dictatorship.

Just think by the time the next election comes around they could have changed some of the terror laws so the burden of proof is on the defence, then the next stage would be rounding up everybody who isn't a member of the Labour party and force them to "prove" they are not terrorists!

Seriously, do you actually think things through before you blindly back everything the government do?

Some SME's are very happy with the measures that the Government, or more precisely, the BoE has taken recently in taking an axe to the Base Rate, which has made a huge difference to BBR loans (I speak from personal experience).

All well and good but, and there is always a but, confidence has been truly shattered and there is, I suspect, a deep nervousness pervading the business world now.

The crucial thing that has been lost is the sense of stability.

So business people may well take the view that although base rates have been cut now, why should we invest because rates might suddenly shoot up again, leaving the business endangered.

It will take some time for this to work through and therefore in that Darwinian way of business, in the mean time, the weak will go to the wall

@76

I have a barcode tattooed on the back of my neck, and I find your comment to be a somewhat sweeping generalisation.

Also your grammar is somewhat ambigous, are you implying that you don't see how a vote for slavery is a bad thing?

Cameron asked the prime minister fairly yesterday some important questions on how this extra borrowing would be paid for and how small businesses would get the benefits. GB did'nt answer - again! My only assumption is that GB knows the answer but if he told the truth we would see the horror of the massive bill WE all face to fund it!

Life has taught me that if someone repeatedly refuses to answer a question they are hiding something - for as long as i do not hear an answer from the government on how this money will be repaid and how it will affect the taxpayer - I cannot vote for them agian.

Nick,

let's pretend that you have a million pounds in your bank account. Now then a friend comes to you with a sure fire money maker, you'll be able to double your money with no risk to your capital.

He says lend me the million, and I'll give you back 2 million in a years time.

You ask him how are you going to do this, what is your business plan. He explains it to and it is such a good idea that you say I won't lend you the money, I'll do it myself. Why, because if you can make 3 million with my money and give me back 2 then I will make the 3 million and keep it to myself.

I think the above would tell you why the banks are no longer lending to each other, why on earth would anybody lend money, that is lose control of it, so that somebody else can make money. I mean get real, the system is bust, it was when Lehmans went that the world changed, it was not realised at the time but you now have 9/15 to go with 9/11. Two days that have changed the world.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

83 brumroad
well my friend there were answer to all questions asked once again but I suppose that once again they weren't the answers you wanted to hear, the government is not hiding anything their telling as it is , not making up stories to try to bring the country down like the tories.
If you ever voted labour which I somehow doubt then pay more attention to what the PM is saying instead of listening to the tories who after recieving answers dont have the nous to understand that they have been answered every question has not got a yes or no answer to it although some of you think it has.

#84 TAG

This is the story of Northern Rock and Granite.........I don't think it will have a very happy ending, do you?

63 Jonathan_Cook.
Thank you for confirming my suspicions.
I find it increasingly difficult to find a balanced opinion in the media. I knew I had good reasons for not reading the Sun, and The Times and for not watching Sky News and avoiding sky channels. You have confirmed them for me.
I can remember days when The Times employed some brilliant investigative journalists. Sadly this is no longer the case, especially since the sacking of Harold Evans in 1979.
Although The Times publishes some excellent writers and journalists and The Sun is often worth a look for its brilliant headline writers, you seem to be suggesting the media group is having such a strong influence on national political opinions it will be a determining factor in the next General Election.

Grandantidote

You seem to have a handle on the Labour Party and it's workings therin, so perhaps you could explain to us all exactly how Gordon Brown proposes to repay all this money, then?

#86 grandantidote.

Your wrong in fact - I have voted labour - in 97 & 01, and lib dem in 05!

All I want is honesty! GB has not told anybody in straight terms how and when this extra cash will be paid back.

Alistair Darling and Lord Mandelson have hinted "there will have to be some adjustment in future years", and that is what I want to know - how and what adjustment and how will it affect the money in pay packet?

Grandantidote

I wasn't expecting a "Yes" or "No" to my posting at #89, but I was expecting some sort of answer.

Taking a leaf out of Gordon's book are we.....?

Don't know if anyone caught World At One on Radio 4 today - Yvette Cooper was asked twice if the extra borrowing would need to be repaid through increased taxes in the future. Twice avoided answering by saying borrowing would need to be reduced as situation improved. She also said they'd be looking for public sector efficiencies such as the way they get their energy contracts (?).

Is grandy just a teeny bit angry?

Is that because newlabour have made such a patent stuff up of the economy?

Looking forward to the pre-budget pre-report this weekend on Andrew Marr when no doubt Gordon Brown will want to front run all of Alistair Darling's plans for next week.

92 PammyAnny

"public sector efficiencies such as the way they get their energy contracts (?)."

I presume they are going to copy the Scottish Government scheme which extends a similar system developed in 2000 by the previous Scottish Executive.

#93 RobinJD

Andrew Marr isn't forceful enough. We need Paxman to ask the questions we all want asked. He won't let them get away with it.

I'm off for a cuppa now.

91 shellingout
sorry if you feel neglected old boy but unlike some of you characters , I am not hanging on your every word,

#You seem to have a handle on the Labour Party and it's workings therin, so perhaps you could explain to us all exactly how Gordon Brown proposes to repay all this money, then?

I, unlike many on here have never claimed to have a insight into the labour parties stategy to deal with the economic situation but at least they have a strategy unlike your lot perhaps I could ask you the same question of the tories.
I see you expect answers within a hour or so well tough luck old chap I will reply when I have time,

#Taking a leaf out of Gordon's book are we?

It's a pity that you dont, you might start talking sense, I see cCmeron have you thrown your toys out of the pram this afternoon.

#96 GA

Oh dear.......touched a nerve have I?

What is their strategy than? We're all waiting with baited breath....

Again - like Gordon - no straight answer. You Labour luvvies are all the same.
You say you support Labour but you really have no idea what they are doing.

Nice One.

97 shellingout
#Oh dear.......touched a nerve have I?

Not by you not in a million years. I see just like Cameron you haven't the nous to know when you've had an answer.
think I made it clear [ perhaps not to a biased Tory] that I have very little knowledge of economics, I share that with most of the Tories on this blog the difference being I am honest about it.
The reason that I vote Labour rather than Tory is because they do understand the economy, I can trust them.
I repeat
unlike your lot perhaps I could ask you the same question of the tories. go on give us all a good laugh, " whats their policy today Jim".

93 Robin jd

Is grandy just a teeny bit angry?

Do you honestly believe that some one who for months has been finishing his posts with "call an Election" could make me angry? if after months of that nonsense you haven't wised up to yourself, then you probably need someone to look after you, and I am kind enough not to take those people to seriously.

Yes, the whole 'prove it' style of defense is a real annoyance to the prosecution and the government. [...] You might consider it 'due diligence' but most people would consider removing placing the burden of proof to be one step towards a dictatorship. [...] Seriously, do you actually think things through before you blindly back everything the government do?

Actually, yes. And I've discussed it with lawyers and police officers, and taken a look at European and Japanese legal models. So, I'm not coming to this one cold or knee-jerking like some folks.

Lurid comments about "dictatorship" and appeals to some mythical Magna Carta justice are ignorant and reactive, and don't help focus on goals, quality of process, or outcomes. Really, we can do without that kind of useless Boris Johnson style reasoning. It doesn't help.