Political journey

Playing the sympathy card - as Guido put it this morning - will not help Gordon Brown.

The sense I have is that the public don't care where he came from or what adversity he has faced.

The public seems to have stopped listening to him - which is very dangerous ground for any politician.

The fact that the headlines this morning are about a PM trying to rally his cabinet is also dangerous. What he should be trying to do is rally the country - whereas he is just trying to get a few people round a table to follow him. Given the last few weeks - that will be hard enough.

Gordon doesn't do humble. Gordon doesn't do sincere. Gordon does figures and statistics.

We won't see any real change from our soon to be ex Prime Minister

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Oh great. I can't wait for more doul faced resignation and determination by Gordon Brown.

As for 'rarely talked about' he seems to talk about little else these days except the death of his daughter and the loss of his eye. It's all become a bit hackneyed.

Why on earth should these things be relevant - it's like the idiotic blank space on employers' job application forms which says 'tell us about some experience that changed you'. It's all a bit 'am-dram'.

If this is the latest phase of his many relaunches then it is doomed to ridicule and failure like all the others. People want to know why NewLabour has become the new nasty party after a year of food and energy price increases. Instead we get how Gordon lost an eye?

Heaven preserve us form the madness of this fool.

Nick, please tell Mr Brown's advisors that the British public are fed up with the complacency and incompetence of the government, and that if he wants to win back any degree of popular support he should (i) resign himself, (ii) restructure his cabinet radically before he goes, (iii) have his successor create a coherent detailed anti-stagflation plan, promulgate it and stick to it. We don't need lectures from Mr B, we need competent action.

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Must be fun on that train Nick. Any depressed boozers on there with you? No not new labour, I mean any, you know, binge drinkers dreaming of better days on their way to some event or other? Oh ... the new labour crowd. Mmmmm get a snap of them and post it on youtube will you?

More important than travelling 'standard' because if they booked the whole carriage it would not be very different than 'first' - did they travel on at a time when advanced cheap fares were available.

And if it had been me, I would have started my journey from Marylebone (far more civilised than Euston) and travelled to Birmingham Moor Street on a loco hauled train belonging to the Wrexham Shrewsbury and Marylebone Railway (WSMR). It is a new non franchised servcie and they make a point of looking after the passengers because it is their own money -not taxpayers.

I don't care that Gordon lost an eye playing rugby. I just care about how I am going to pay the fuel bills this winter, how I am going to fill up my car with petrol so I can travel to work, how I can afford to feed my family, etc. Until he starts coming up with solutions to those kind of problems it's just rhetoric and waffle.

Gordon, stop thinking about how you're going to save your own political skin. Please start thinking about how you can help the country cope with the economic downturn that has unfolded partly because you taxed, borrowed and spent and never thought to save.

power_to_the_ppl (#2), it wouldn't be much of a detective story, since clearly it would be the cabinet that did it.

licensed reference to those things that he so rarely likes to talk about

Can we give this a name, for example, the Hanoi Hilton gambit?

Let me get this right, Nick. The entire Cabinet is travelling to the West Midlands to hold a meeting they could have held in London where they are based, at no extra cost? The only additional feature being lots of photo opportunities and PR stunts?

Please, please Mr Brown stop thinking you can interest us in gimmicks; get back to London and sort out the mess you've created, now. The British public is not as stupid as you believe, and it knows when talk is all you can offer.

I am not an inveterate anti-Labour (and far from being a pro-Conservative) voter, but I am getting sick of the inaction, the puerility of response and the tawdry lies, deceit and sterilty of Labour in government under Mr Brown. If I hear one more 'Brown relaunch' or 'Brown vision' statement in the midst of our current economic and other problems, I'll know that he's totally lost the plot.

Stop telling me you are 'getting on with the job' and just do it - competently. Better still, go.

Youre quite wrong Nick the public dont want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it.

We want to know when hes going to hold an election.

"No short-term gimmicks" said Brown only last week, well, with the cabinet meeting in Birmingham, that promise lasted long didn't it.

"my own response to the great challenges in my own life has been to confront them, resolute in the belief that there would always be something that could be done to overcome them and there always have been".

Mr Micawber?

What is that they say that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

I'm sorry but I can go on a journey to find the real me. This should not be a journey for a Prime Minister who should already know where he is going, because he is going to take us with him.

I don't want to go on a voyage of discovery with Gordon Brown.

In the meantime the country is flooded, the Stock Exchange is failing because it can't handle the volume of business. This country is a busted flush, and we have a 'leader' who wants to tell us about his daughter.

Tell us Gordon how many innocents have been lost in Afghanistan, how many have been killed by Predator, and Reaper. Don't forget we actually saw Prince Harry authorising a bombing mission on people who are trying to rid themselves of a foreign occupying force.

So, don't tell me about Gordon and the loss of his baby, not until he admits to all the deaths which he, and Tony Blair are responsible for.

Wow, no-one's mentioned gravy trains yet.

For a seasoned journalist who's married to a relationship councillor, Nick Robinson is beginning to develop a remarkable degree of misunderstanding. It's a matter of fact that the INTJ type tends to be very reflective and sensitive to the world around them. So, I'm just writing this topic off as trying it on from someone who's leaping on the bandwagon.

My general feeling is that the Prime Minister just needs to trim the strategic and market sensitivity, and focus more on the practical and social. That involves a certain amount of inner kung-fu, but if anyone can break his own bones to take on another shape, it's someone with the character of the Prime Minister. He will do what is necessary even if it kills him.

I'm hoping the Prime Minister can ditch the conference speech itis and develop some more theatrical ability in time for his keynote. This isn't a gimmick or spin but a necessary shift in presentation skills to connect with folks and draw out the more relevant angles. It took star performers like Les Dawson a lifetime to hone. The Prime Minister has a week.

I don't know whether to be more surprised by the phrase "these straightened times" (has time become less curly or something?) or the fact that none of the first ten people posting comments has been pedantic enough to point out the difference between "straightened" and "straitened"... ;)

#13
No, just very pompous.

"What the PM is being told by his advisors is that the public want to know his analysis of what's gone wrong and what he's going to do about it. In other words, that he is capable of self-awareness and analysis."

As a member of this public I can safely say that his advisors are wrong.

My only interest in Gordon Brown now concerns two main questions - when are we getting are general election, and when are we getting our referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?

Until these two issues are addressed, everything Gordon and his advisors do or say is irrelevant. And a little patronising.

Now I think that people really ought to look at the Ed Balls interview on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday, because this is important, no it is, its really important and you mustn't interrupt because it is IMPORTANT.

I mean we have seen the end of laissez faire economics, even the Americans have given up, Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae, is just the tip of the iceberg, the very one which sank the Titanic, and is going to sink Gordon and the rest of them.

Maybe Gordon ought to be relaunched on the rivers which are now in flood, they will carry him away, just like the electorate will when we eventually have 'this' election. I say 'this' because that is how it was referred to by the important Ed Balls. Does it mean we can expect a formal announcement sooner, rather than later.

Nick -

From my perspective no amount of spin, rebranding or penitence is going to cut it for this government.

I don't even care if they get rid of the unelected foreigner we have as prime minister.

I hope you guys in the media will be focussing on what real change in their disastrous POLICIES comes out of this.

His advisors are wrong. What the public want is for him to resign and/or call a general election. Now.

I couldn't give a damn about his personal struggles. He is politically inept.

David Cameron recently held a public meeting at a school local to me,in what's been called a deprived area and a safe Labour constituency...or at least as safe as any are these days.The meeting was advertised in the local paper and an e-mail address was published for those with questions who couldn't make it.There was no mass Police presence,he didn't alert the national media and actually got to meet locals.Contrast this with Brown's meeting today which 5 live have have reported as a mass scrum of media and security people,costing how much Gordon? Local people here compared Mr Cameron's local meeting with the behaviour of their local M.P.,a lady who only ever turns up to be photographed at local Primary Schools,was parachuted in at the last election at the cost of a very popular and hard-working local council member and is best known for being caught having an affair with someone else's husband.Whatever his faults,and no I'm not a Tory,locals were impressed that Cameron had turned up and actually met local people in an area that often feels forgotten in a low key manner.The local Labour M.P. dosn't live here and most wouldn't recognise her if she knocked on their door,Labour have made a massive mistake forgetting the grass roots,the "little people" who traditionally vote for them.They'll probably still win Devonport next time but Mr Cameron's couple of hours here made a very positive impression,even those who had no wish to see him appreciated that he made the effort.

How nice the BBC funds first class rail travel for you Mr Robinson,as for Mr Cameron i would expect nothing less.

Gordon can be introspective - but I think he has lost the public.

They might feel some sympathy for his personal circumstances but they will not elect him as PM.

For many people Gordon is these things:

- A man without a plan

- A poor leader

- Not decisive

- Unprepared

- A serial loser

- Disconnected from reality

- Tainted by his fight to topple Blair

- Questionable record as Chancellor

- Unelectable

1 simonofoxford A typical Tory response I didn't see anything in Nicks introduction that said that Gordon had mentioned anything about losing his eye or the trajic loss of his daughter, all that I saw concerning that was a little unkind conjecture by Nick Robinson.

My only interest in Gordon Brown now concerns two main questions - when are we getting are general election, and when are we getting our referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?

The only folks demanding that are ones caught up in their own anger and populism. It's a typical right wing mentality that's rattling the bars of the cage. Anyone who falls for that tub thumping and hot air is just buying into fear and greed.

The Tories have put up a lot of front and pretend to have clean hands but it's obvious to anyone this is just another cynical political campaign. All we need are a few smashed windows and "war veterans" to complete the image of a putsch.

The elephant in the room is the real fear of the Tories, and their big business and media pals, that this campaign won't win. If folks just follow a non-competitive and sensible grass roots strategy the storm will blow over and the sun will shine.

3 Robin JD once again the usual Tory exageration I have only ever heard Gordon Brown once mention the loss of his daughter and never the loss of the sight of his eye, dont use trajic events in anyone's life to try to score what you think are politcal points. I promise you it doesn't enhance your character and some one like you cant afford that.

13. oldnat

Spot on

Welcome poverty..Welcome misery, welcome houselessness, welcome hunger, rags, tempest, and beggary!

Mutual confidence will sustain us to the end

21 Jon i'm 12, UK.Is that your pseodonym if it is, it makes your absurd post seem reasonable.

Er Nick,

What is the purpose of this visit and who is paying. Presumably rooms were rented and travel paid for. Just to have a meeting which could have been held in the usual office.

Good grief. I thought the country was a bit short of the readies? and about to enter recession. What is this Govt playing at? What planet are they on?

There once was a man with one eye.
Nothings my fault he did cry,
But the public new better
he'd made the country a Debtor
Next comes the Mutiny like Bligh!

#27

The only elephant in the room at the moment is Gordon Brown himself and no one in the NewLabour party dares to say what they really think - that he is a born loser.

23 Devonportdave

I've just looked at your MPs record. Not very impressive. Certainly toes the party line but she is an Assistant Whip.

27 Charles - this government and big business are inseparable. Why otherwise do they consistentally act to make things difficult for the small businesses.

jonathan_cook at #25, you are exactly right. Can I add to the list that he is also perceived as being unable to connect with ordinary people? Remember this is a man that thinks it is normal to call voters at home to discuss government policy but won't visit the seat of a by-election contest.

And grandantidote please remember that people here are not necessarily voicing opinions based on a party alliegance (I for one am not). They are concerned at the continuing ineptitude and complacency of their government. Mr Brown personally is certainly not improving their perceptions. As simonofoxford at #1 said eloquently, people are pretty much ignoring the man these days.

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Welcome poverty..Welcome misery, welcome houselessness, welcome hunger, rags, tempest, and beggary!

I've just read about the government getting behind developing the market for 'green products'. This should help create a massive home market and serious export potential as big as the Japanese post WWWII renaissance. As surely as Japan owns the home entertainment market, Britain can own the green market.

Where's the Tory response? They have no serious business development goals apart from giving the CBI a free hand and providing soap kitchen for people on the wrong side of 'efficiency savings'. That's just more Thatcherism in my book, and we know how that ruined the country and set people against each other.

The Brown Doctrine is the most single, clear, and powerful antidote to the broken social and economic fundamentals Britain has to deal with. Folks have a binary choice of going back down the same old failed path, or to embrace a Manhattan style project to put Britain back into the big league. That decision's a no brainer in my book.

23 devonport dave, The reason that your Dave didn't get the attention that you obviously thought he should have is because the press didn't consider him important enough.
[clever if unpleasant people these press photographers].

The reason that Gordon wasn't able to wander around and meet the people was because of the press surrounding him, it would have been unfair to those people wishing to talk to him to be jostled around by the press as they certainly would have been.

The security surrounding Gordon might be because he is the Prime minister of this country and there have been death threats recently or didn't you in your admiration for Dave know that.

It's not a Cabinet Meeting. Brown is on the TV.

I hate saying this, but Gordon Brown's - 'I see no ships' method of turning a blind eye to problems is not a realistic path to follow.

I have the greatest respect for anyone living with a severe visual impediment but simply not to see the suffering of others as the direct result, of policy, or of matters outside your control, such as the economy does not help and will be punished by the electorate.

George Bush found this out with hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. The British propensity to vanish under water at the slightest downpour every year is another problem not of Gordon Brown's making but with which he will be blamed.

Similarly offering badly paid civil servants just a 2 percent cost of living increase when they are experiencing double digit inflation of essentials is not a viable position.

The public will not want to pay mores taxes nor can he borrow more, but he should seriously contemplate cutting back on unnecessary things like ID cards so that he can pay his (our) staff properly.

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#28

So did you not see the programme on one of the television channels where we learnt about the life of Gordon, where he was a promising rugby player but lost the sight in one eye.

Did we not get news reports on the sad loss of his daughter. How do I know about his daughter, through the news.

Do I know if the child of Tony Blair had the MMR jab, no, I don't. Do I know if any of Gordon's family have the MMR jab, no, should I, well maybe I should or maybe I shouldn't.

Will the daughter of Tony Blair give publicity as to whether or not she has had the latest jab for young girls preventing some form of cancer.

I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Should our politicians really make life changing policy amendments based on their own experiences rather than the empirical evidence supporting change.

Gordon thinks he is entitled to be our Prime Minister because he agreed it with Tony Blair. That is why no amount of launches or relaunches will change the irrefutable fact that Gordon has never faced the electorate as Prime Minister, he is not a President, so I personally can never vote for or against him. He totally lacks any legitimacy, we know it, he knows it, and he is guilty of paternalism at its worst, he tries to be our father figure, he fails miserably. He must go, or call an election, soon.

31 blogpolice Well what was Cameron doing there atleast labour went second class unlike good old Dave.

Well I'm one of the "public" Nick mentions in his last paragraph, and I'd like to say what I really want: I want somebody, in fact anybody, with a plan. Even a Tory.

It appears clear that the PM and Cabinet don't know what to do. Unfortunately, the opposition have given no indication that they have any idea what to do, either.

We already have Brown, who, lest we forget, came in on a wave of "Hurrah! He's not Blair!" euphoria. I'm afraid that the same will happen with Cameron within a year of the election. "Hurrah! He's not Brown!" but unfortunately, without any tangible policies, his Government will be no different to the incumbent.

I beg, plead and implore Mr Cameron to come up with some policies. This will put him ahead of Labour by some distance, no matter what those policies are! If he persists in hoping that he will win the election just by not being Labour then things simply cannot improve.

"In other words, that he is capable of self-awareness and analysis."

I think he is self-aware, those kinds of people are usually very self-aware indeed, although they'll deny their own self-analysis publicy as they know it'll count against them if they tell people what they honestly think.

What he isn't is "other-aware", and it's that lack of awareness/empathy of anything outside his own personal situation that's so damaging to the country.

He does physically know about things outside his own personal situation, it's just that he chooses to ignore them because they don't relate directly to him.

The only time he'll ever consider situations outside his own personal situation is when he knows that his own political survival is at risk if he ignored them.

This was demonstrated perfectly with the 10pct tax fiasco, where he knew full well the damage, but refused to admit it until his own survival was at threat.

Now he's using personal tragedy as a way of gaining public sympathy for his professional incompetence. That's another perfect example of his kind of psychological make-up (emotional blackmail to get what you want).

grandantidote.

Wow vicious very vicious. Why not contribute something meaningful rather than resort to personal attacks.

Brown is blind in one eye and refuses to see out of the other.

He is deaf to any criticism.

Alas, he is not dumb (in the British sense of lacking the faculty of speech) and will, therefore, bore us all to death with his 'determination in the face of adversity'.

More like 'delusion in the face of reality'.

Does not anyone in his cabinet or inner circle have the guts to tell him just how despised he is with the public at large?

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I presume the reason my last post is refered is because we shouldnt inflict Gordon on Gloucester even if he does do what Dr Foster did

The problem with having only one eye is that you have do depth perception,

That is mainly the reason that GB doesnt see how far into the doo doo he has got the country

re: 41 grandantidote

I didn't post that particular poem, open your eyes!

Maybe Gordon Brown should look across the Atlantic to Canada. the Prime Minister called a surprise(strange concept here, I know) snap election in the hope that it may increase his seats to an overall majority.

At least one Western Political leader has "Balls" and not the Education Secretary type either!

How typical of a Nick Robinson blog entry an that is a trimuph of style over substance.

Who gives a fig about what happened on the train upto the west midlands. Qudos to both lots for taking the time to get out of the westminster bubble.

We live in interesting times Nick, it belittles the BBC as an institution that you continue to focus as Chief Politcal correspondant on the froth and ignore the all to real meat of how we manage our political affairs amidst very real economic and social concerns.

What a pathetic little publicity stunt it's turning out to be.
It maybe all smiles for the cameras but no wonder they are all so glum in Brum:

https://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/smile-were-not-glum-in-brum.html

It was probably just as well that they never met in the corridor - all those negative ions could have caused a breach in the space time continuum!

You have got to admit that neither Brown nor cameron are overwhelming the electorate with a rush of new thinking, great ideas re worked or radicalism - something which this age cries out for.

We seem to lack the great visionaries and story tellers - Castles, Wilsons, Benns, Powells, Heseltines and on and on who had a real story to tell.

Where are all our story tellers today?

Character is important. It does Brown no harm at all to show that he has overcome personal adversity in becoming Prime Minister. In the United States the Republican candidate is going to base his entire campaign on his personal experiences and how they have formed his character.
This is overdue. Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect. Those who denigrate him here would do so irrespective of what he stands for or where he has come from.

there is a perfectly good cabinet office at Downing Street and another at Chequers - how much extra does it cost the taxpayer in these straightened times to hold the cabinet meetinin Birmingham?

TAG I think that it was Andrew Marr who I normally like who was out of order he must have been sucking on his thesaurus in his sleep as he obviously had a severe case of verbal diarrhoea and seemed very reluctant to let Ed Balls answer any question he asked, it didn't come as no surprise to me that Ed said listen this is important it was the only way he could get Marr to shut up for a few seconds.

The security surrounding Gordon might be because he is the Prime minister of this country and there have been death threats recently or didn't you in your admiration for Dave know that.

The Prime Minister is a 'high value target' for pretty much any scuzzbal and nutter. Getting on with the job without allowing that shower to get in the way is hard at the best of times. I doubt anyone posting in here could cope with it any better.

I've put my neck on the line for other folks in much more modest situations and paid for it. Meanwhile, some mouth posting on a 'high attention' blog can make claims but there's no accountability, and they can dive back into the herd at any moment.

This is the real world versus the internet. Government and the media are no different. Folks doing real work have to get it right but if you can change your mind like you change your socks without penalty you can always look good, at least, on paper.

51 ppl apologies, I'm so used to seeing hordes of your daft poems that I inadvertantly thought it was one of yours. so what did you think of it, bet you wont say anything nasty about Pot kettle.

There is a counter argument that somebody who has 'bounced back' from terrible adversity, for example, John McCain, of whom, probably everybody in the world knows was tortured by the Viet Cong during that war; should be automatically disqualified from high public office.

On the grounds that their 'painful experiences' may distort their judgement.

Even people who saw terrible things, for example Ted Heath, it could be argued, had his judgement so distorted that he became 'economical with the actualite' in his determination to get us into the EU.

Therefore, Gordon Brown needs to be careful in pushing this angle (not that it will save his political skin in this job).

Can I suggest the next cabinet day-trip sees them going to Mars.

They can go first class, I'm sure we can raise the cash as part of Comic Relief

47 septic max. that lastlsentence could have been wrtten about you and it carries my sentiments exactly regarding you.

We've all known about the loss of his eye and the tragic loss of his daughter for a long time now. Many of us including the relatives and loved ones of soldiers killed and severely injured in Iraq have suffered far worse. Without in any way meaning to belittle his sufferings it has little relevance to the political situation as it stands today. It is merely another attempt to try and gain sympathy and squeeze more support from his colleagues and the General Public.

Folks have a binary choice of going back down the same old failed path, or to embrace a Manhattan style project to put Britain back into the big league. That decision's a no brainer in my book.

Gordon Brown is going to nuke us?

Figures. We can only hope he misses and hits France.

re: 56 peteholly

"Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect. Those who denigrate him here would do so irrespective of what he stands for or where he has come from. "

I don't care where he came from or what he "stands for". What I care about is whether or not he's capable of doing his job, and he's plainly not as he has no understanding of basic economics or maths or logic and he refuses to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with everything he says. If that's seen as a "towering intellect" in the uk then we might as well all go live in another country.

#53 Sotonblogger

I agree that Nick can sometimes become a little too involved in the political gossip and not focus on the issues but most of the time I think he is a very competent political correspondent.

I take your point but we could have someone a lot worse. There are some very very bad journalists at the BBC these days (not naming any names) who seem to think their job description involves sensationalising every event so that the populace is worked up into a frenzy. No, their job is to give an objective account of the events.

Peteholly, you are right, GB is a decent bloke, but that doesn't make him good at the job of being prime minister.

Now I must go to work.

#56 peteholly

On what do you base your assertion that Brown is an "outstanding intellect"? I'm interested because I have heard a lot of people say this but I have seen very little evidence of this being the case.

Some mixed messages coming from the mobile Lemming Cabinet... They are telling us to eat less food, use less electricity, wear extra socks and willi-warmers (ok, that last bit's mine) and save our money because it's going to be a hard winter... and then they all jump onto the train (at our expense) for a meeting they could have had in London...

And the economy is safe in their hands...?

Good grief!! :)

46. SecondSpanners

To quote one of grandys greatest heros:

I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.

Margaret Thatcher

#58

grandantidote, I know exactly what you mean but on the basis of what Balls was saying he seemed to be trying to put down the conservatives rather than answer a legitimate question.

I think that the commentators have worked out that to keep blaming the global economy, when there has been a global economy, well for ever since there was commerce, is actually no longer working with the electorate.

No, it is not only Balls who tries this tack, listen to Hazel Blears, she does the same, in fact just like they try to convey some sort of link with a church in the way they hold their hands, or use the term, this is important.

Don't forget that another two building societies have been today been merged with the Nationwide.

Exactly why do we still see the Northern Rock logo on the shirts of Newcastle United, surely we are not still paying for their sponsorship, even though they are now nationalised. Surely not becaus eof votes in the North East.

re: 60

Ah yes the heavenly nectar of an apology from one of Labour's most ardent supporters. How sweet it tastes.

Nope I'm not going to say anything bad about the poem, I agree completely with its sentiment.

The UK is being battered by some very nasty economics. It's not just us, it's the whole of the West ... chickens roosting, bills to be paid, party over, bla bla bla ... all cliches, all true.

We (along with the US) will be hit harder than most because we partied (along with the US) the hardest. The Footsie will decline by around 50% over the next 3 years ... sorry, but that has to happen. There's no point moaning about it and it's silly to look to Gordon or the Darling for any answers. It's got next to nothing to do with them. They have no answers and nor does Dodgy Dave.

Brown has been way overpraised in the past for our falsely inflated living standards and, by the same token, he's being overcriticised now.

Long term, the current mess is a very good thing because it will bring our standard of living down to a level which is consistent with the value we actually add. I'm also praying that it leads to a junking of the western model of unfettered free market capitalism ... I mean, we couldn't go on living off the backs of the developing world forever, could we? It's not nice to be a parasite, is it?

37 - CEH

You mention the 'Brown Doctrine" as being a single and clear antidote.

What is this doctrine? I have never heard GB outline the single or clear vision that you describe.

If GB has a doctrine, he hasn't succeeded in communicating it to people.

He certainly hasn't managed to convince the wider populous that his vision and delivery plan have merit.

I've just read the latest wheeze by George Osborne and it confirms my view the Tories have no economic plan other than give a free hand to the CBI and soup kitchens to the rest. I notice there's nothing to cut tax loopholes or making rich shareholders take some of the strain. Anyone who buys that Kool-Aid is asking to have their ass handed to them on a plate.

The Tories soft policy announcement just betrays the fact they don't have anything, and are treating the unions like another bunch of suckers. Their campaign trick of beating their way in the door is being called, and they're making policy up on the hoof to 'prove' they have the stones to deliver. In reality, it's just another opportunistic argument but where's the goals and effort? Sorry, guys. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

1. Where's the business development?
2. Where's wealth creation?
3. Where's the reality?

42 Tag, you state
"Did we not get news reports on the sad loss of his daughter. How do I know about his daughter, through the news."

That rather proves my point not yours, or did Gordon read the news that night.

Regarding injections. No none of that is any business of yours or mine.

Had the death of his daughter not been reported heaven knows what the press would have done with it when they found out.
It would be extremely dificult for anyone no matter what position they hold in life not to be influenced in some way by the loss of a child so young. those that have will tell you that, I lost a boy at 7 year old and it changed my outlook on life completely and I still go to his graveside regularly after 45 years.
I dont want to hear from you about all the people dying in the world I think we have all had enough of that from you, your last paragraph is TAGspeak I'm sure you edit it for almost daily use,
Incidentally I did see the program you refer to, it would hardly of made sense if there had been no reference to the loss of his eye, now would there.

It's too far gone for GB to regain any credibility, whatever his personal experience or attributes. He'd have to admit that the public finances are a complete mess (not even Darling came clean about that) and that while the credit crunch may not be of the governments making, neither was the extraordinary global boom that the UK economy rode on the back of for the first 10 years in office, and for which GB was so quick to take credit. The man just doesn't do humility.

And the oft repeated claim (by Balls, Cooper et al) that GB was the 'greatest Chancellor of the modern era/ever' is as hollow as it is insulting to the vast number of UK citizens now struggling to make ends meet.

#53 - Most unfair. Nick spends too much time in the Westminster villiage, but he is a great correspondent.

#56 / #66.
Brown's main contribution to the intellectual life of our country seems to have been his pamphlet (published as a student,) telling people how to live on benefits without working.

Since then he has ghosted a couple of forgettable books with single figure readerships.

His only non-political job (real) has been as an undistinguished polytechnic lecturer.

There is no begining to his talents.

#76 I agree that cutting tax loop-holes is something that needs to be done.

I would address your three queries thus:

1. The Conservative policy to give more free rein to businesses, less red tape and less reliance on the State should help to develop business.

2. Stripping down the public sector will help this. The public sector burgeons under a Labour government which leads to the creation of non-jobs which do little to create wealth.

3. The reality is that the government debt levels are high and rising. Leaving Northern Rock aside for the moment I think the debt level is slightly less than in May 1997 but the debt was falling then (it is rising now) and we have had 11 years of economic growth so you would think that government debt would be much lower than in 1997 due to the takings in tax. This constrains conservative policy. That which they will inherit in 2010 is getting worse by the week.

# peteholly

His outstanding intellect isn't, and hasn't ever been visible to me. If it's there why can't he wake up, smell the coffee and damn well use it?

The Tories soft policy announcement just betrays the fact they don't have anything, and are treating the unions like another bunch of suckers.

Worked for Tony Blair. Just vague vacuous soundbites followed by an artillary barrage the next time Major would screw up. That's what you're seeing this time. Just vague 'aspirations', 'goals', etc etc. And then as soon as the next Labour clanger (and, lets be honest, they're ten a apenny at the minute) comes along WHOOOOSH another airstrike.

Too easy.

Labour are where the Tories were in 1995. They are treated with loathing, pity and contempt and they are going to get the hiding of their lives in 201. It would be better for Labour to go to the polls now and saddle Cameron with this recession. they could even claim, with all the gall that has characterised their reign of disingenuity, that they didn't have a recession. After all, it hasn't hit yet.

But I suspect the two hundred or so never-to-be-elected-again Labour MPs just want another 18 months of pay and pension contributions before they shuffle of back to be the never-weres that they were always destined to be.

Good. Every extra day of this hostage crisis drives the message further into the voters brains. This is a government of all the huxters.

#27

"The only folks demanding that are ones caught up in their own anger and populism. It's a typical right wing mentality that's rattling the bars of the cage. Anyone who falls for that tub thumping and hot air is just buying into fear and greed.

The Tories have put up a lot of front and pretend to have clean hands but it's obvious to anyone this is just another cynical political campaign."

What strikes me as a cynical political campaign is that Liebour won the last election with a manifesto promise of a referendum, which they then decided against when they realised that the poor British public aren't intelligent enough to vote the way their political masters want them to.

Nobody's saying that the Tories are whiter than white, and I'm certainly not saying that any political party is for that matter.

But one feature of this shameful excuse for a Parliament that had repeated itself again and again (as it does in your post) is the dismissal of anyone's alternative views as either racist, sexist, pick-your-own-minority-ist, or God forbid, "right wing". Either that or they're dismissed on the basis that they either read the Sun or the Daily Mail (neither of which I read, incidentally)

Denying people the right to their own opinions simply because they differ from your own is facism, pure and simple. But it's been the cornerstone of the last 11 years of government, so the sooner we finally receive our democratic rights at the ballot box again, the better.

At the moment this country would be better off in the hands of primary school children.

What is this doctrine?

I routinely explain and give time to folks, but if they just want argue and posture there's nothing I can do. Talk is cheap but you can't duck a demonstration. Zen has a saying: "This cannot be taught" (or you can't win an argument on the internet).

If the government knocks themselves into shape, folks will get a clue soon enough. For the Phd analyst types, they only have to focus on the 1% thought leaders of the 30% they want to win. The rest will follow or be left behind.

I'm generally relaxed about this. The Tories are putting up some "clever" arguments and "kissing asses" but they know what the score is. I figure, even if they win they'll have to confront their karma. It's not pretty and they won't enjoy it.

Who knows what is good or bad, etcetera.

#76 CEH

1 and 2 are completely invisible
3 Much easier, quite a long story but I'll try and be brief. The reality is right now,
Bliar and El Gordo have conspired to ruin the lives of millions of people through a mixture of contempt and indifference.

Brown hasn't lost the plot, I doubt if one existed to start with.

I'm sorry that Gordon Brown lost a child. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

However that doesn't mean that we should cut him any more slack than any other person who wishes to rifle our pockets and squander hundreds of billions in pursuit of more than a couple of lines in the history books.

He'll get his lines in the history book before this is finished and that's for sure. I'm pretty certain they won't be the lines he's envisioned while he was bankrolling three election victories on borrowed money though.

It'll read:

Gordon Brown Chancellor 1997-2007, Prime Minster 2007-2010. Gordon Brown presided over the largest single increase in national debt in the history of British Government. This was squandered on ill-advised pet projects as part of the governments social engineering agenda. There are no surviving buildings from this unprecedented era of squandering. He died a broken man, unenobled and unlamented.

That's if there is any such thing as a God or karma at all.

I found this quote from David Miliband quite amusing:

"I am absolutely convinced that Gordon can lead us to victory. He has enormous values, drive and vision and I think we are going to prove people wrong,"

The key part to it being that part of the last sentence; ie that he admits that nobody in the country thinks that Brown/Labour are competent.

The "everybody else in the country is wrong, but I am right" attitude being expressed helps illustrate things quite nicely when it comes to Brown/Labour.

If everybody else on the planet is wrong, but you think that you are right, then you're either on a different planet to everyone else or you're delusional or you're lying.

"7 billion people don't agree with what I say about x, and I'm the only person who thinks x, but I still think I'm right about x"

I don't think so; I think it's logically more likely that the 7 billion people are correct, and that you're wrong.

@74

The big problem with the "overpraising" of GB is that HE claimed the credit for it, and now he claims its not his fault.

Well which is it? was he in charge of the economy or not? If he was, the credit is his and the debit is his, if he wasnt in charge of the economy then I may concede its not his fault.
trouble is he wants his cake and eat it too! and all the while we should feel sorry for him because he's a victim of global circumstance.
Well I'm sorry, I'm a victim of his Tax and waste policy along with many others and until I see some sympathy coming my way from him he will be getting none from me!

*17 jamesscotland

Thanks a lot. I was actually contemplating whether there might be potential irony involved in Nick's phrase "these straightened times"... -:)

71 carrots Well thanks a million this remark has made my day, all the remarks we get on a daily basis from tory bloggers are answered by this one paragraph and from the last person in the world that you would expect.
So what we can say with confidence as it comes from the great Tory icon herself is that all those who use this long list of personal attacks on Gordon Brown such as Mr Bean. Mr Broon. Mc Broon. dour you know all the names I'm not going to gratify the name callers hear by rattling out their insults they know who they are.
so dear old Maggie says,

I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.


so think on all you Tory name callers Maggie thinks as I do that you are completely bereft of any political argument and that includes Dave Cameron as the only thing that I have heard from him is name calling, nothing about politics. thankyou carrots I shall retain this remark and like you I will post it to you on another occasion.

76. Charles_E_Hardwidge

Every new government is constrained by the economic policies of the previous one. Its hard to do much else, economies are like oil tankers, hard to turn.

Brown stuck rigidly to Ken Clarkes spending plans for just over 2 years. It was, in fact, during this period that he attained his reputation for prudence.

Well to be fair this and the trumpeting of the so called golden rules which I for one quite liked. Until of course they all went south with Prudence.

Typical socialist policy of tax, borrow, waste and squander eventually surfaced and here we are today. Hit by a global down turn and the cupboard is bare. No one is listening to him any longer.

It is not the Tories job to outline an economic rescue plan its Browns. Blair offered very little policy before he was elected and Cameron has no doubt learnt the tactic from the Spin Master.

Cameron just has to sit tight and watch Brown whack nail after nail his own coffin lid.

You may get an election earlier than you thought if Kilfoyle's argument holds. Cameron may be well advised to get some policies together!

Nick, this is what our friend Mr. Peston had to say about the GLOBAL financial difficulties of the present time.

Quote - The US Government is in effect nationalising North America's two biggest providers of finance for the housing market, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, is taking direct control of them under a system known as "conservatorship".
This is an event of profound significance for the global economy, since these two eccentric institutions own or guarantee almost £3000bn of US mortgages.
Banks, including some of the world's most important central banks, have direct and substantial financial exposure to both Fannie and Freddie.
So, given the febrile state of markets across the world,- - unquote.

Across the world? What? Do we have a Global financial problem?

So Nick, what does boy Dave has to say about Banks being nationalised in the biggest capitalist systems in the world?

USA turning into Communists, or what?

Looks like the Tories have not yet learnt their lesson, that in these times of Global financial problems, the likes of which seen in the 30s, do not require someone that played havoc with our economy in September 1992, when NONE of these financial black clouds even existed!

peteholly @56 wrote:

"Brown is a fundamentally decent man - as well as being of outstanding intellect.".

He is neither. And one has to be either blind, deluded or a liar to say so.

73 ppl Then ppl I apologise as I said for the mistake except for the one word for which I withdraw my apology, Idiot.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I've just read a comment by Bruce Anderson in The Independent, and it just gets behind the idea that big business, the Tories, and the feral media are in their death throws. The world is changing and people like that don't get it. So, they tell lies and oppose for oppositions sake.

The tub thumpers and vested interests want to return us to a world where management has the right to manage, the toffs assume they have a divine right to rule, and the feral media is entitled to its circulation figures. Big surprise, dudes: it ain't written in stone.

Eurasia can survive a complete decoupling from the US economy over a three year period. Anyone who's informed and aware of the rest of the world knows this. If Labour persist they'll be in time to inherit a recovery and the success that goes with that.

Say it ain't so.

sagamix @74 wrote:

"It's not nice to be a parasite, is it?"

Speak for yourself, Buddy.

I don't exploit the developing world, their leaders and NGOs do that well enough.

I also don't work for the government.

Say it ain't so.

It ain't so. Does that help?

I just do not understand this intense Tory anger at Brown. The current mess (and it is a mess) is caused by unfettered free market capitalism ... exactly the sort of thing that you guys are meant to believe in! Surely you can see that?

I mean, let's pose a question ... has the abject state of the UK economy got most to do with;

1. the greed and stupidity of the banks?
or
2. labour spending too much on the NHS?

(a clue: answer #2 is the wrong answer and you fail the test).