End of 'age of irresponsibility'?

Nick, I think Ben Brogan sums the whole sorry speech up rather better. I dont think Gordo realised what he was saying ;)

https://broganblog.dailymail.co.uk/

Quite right,

We want an end to irresponsible financial management and waste.



See ya

Nick

Next time you see Gordon, ask him who was Chancellor and PM during the 'Age of Irresponsibility'

If he doesn't answer that he was - then he has no concept of honesty.

He cannot run away from his responsibilities.

Would you leave an arsonist to put out the fire he started?

Tell me the man who was Chancellor presiding over this debacle is not now telling everyone to be more responsible ?

Horse, stable door, bolted.

We are doomed.

This is a positive goal for the big players to focus on and it's a good sentiment that no man is left behind. I think, that will play very well in both America, Asia, and the developing world. It's not just reacting to the situation but helping shape a better future - a defining moment.

Mr Brown calls for an era of "transparency" in financial markets. I hope he realises that in US business, this means the complete opposite of what it means in the UK.

In the US, if something is made "transparent", it means it is made hidden (which is actually more logical than the meaning assigned to it in the UK).

The "age of irresponsibility" will end, no matter what Bush/Brown do. The best they can do is protect the vulnerable retail banking customer, indeed this is what they must do.

The nonsense was always the Thatcher / Regan 'light touch (self) regulation' - it was rubbish at the time - many said so but if your said so your academic department was closed down!

Just in case I dont get a chance to copy it across my comment to this is on post #179 of the previous blog

We want an end to the "age of irresponsibility"

Well practice what you preach then.

All we heard at the Labour conference was more and more public spending promises.

It's a case of do as I say not as I do.

@1

I think Benedict Brogan was reading over my shoulder when I typed my #179 post in the previos blog.

"The age of irresponsibility must be ended"...
I do hope Gordon is first in the queue to follow his own advice..
He has been grossly irresponsible with tax-payer's money.
Irresponsible to hive off control of bank regulation to a quango (FSA) stuffed with placemen with little or no financial experience..and thus no idea what to look for.
Irresponsible to burden future generations with off balance sheet "Enron" style PFI..
Irresponsible to steal £5billion per year from what WERE the best pension funds in the world.
Irresponsible to write the cheques for the Iraq war without first checking that it was legal....
Irresponsible to deny the MOD the money to give soldiers sent to war the body armour, tanks, and even enough bullets to operate properly..
Irresponsible to saddle tax-payers with 800,000 extra non-productive civil servants to no effect..
Irresponsible to personally crush any benefit system reform.
Irresponsible to so complicate the tax system that even those charged with applying it don't know if they are right or wrong.
Gordon's problem is..he never admits any of his irresponsiblilities... the furore of the 10p tax debacle wasn't any of HIS doing he says...it was the voters "falure" to understand!

The "age of irresponsibility" must be ended!

Excellent, on what day is Gordon resigning?

Either they have to ask their hard-pressed voters to pay for the rich bankers' errors or, they're told, the banks will go under leaving those same voters without their savings, homes and jobs.

If the general public are going to suffer - and we are, one way or another - then the ones who got us into the mess should suffer with us. Allow the banks to go under and use all that taxpayer money to help people directly affected by the collapses, instead of using it the help what are essentially failed corporations.

"Politicians find themselves in a terrible bind. Either they have to ask their hard-pressed voters to pay for the rich bankers' errors or, they're told, the banks will go under leaving those same voters without their savings, homes and jobs. Who says it's easy being a politician?"

Why not bail the people out, not the reckless bankers?

Gosh - something we can all agree on! And even what is more, stated by the Prime Minister himself.

End of 'age of irresponsibility' - yes please!

And as it happens if we are entering a new age, then Brown is as much of a novice as anybody...

In fact, given that his experience is of the old ways - maybe he is the least suited person of all - old dog, new tricks...

This 'son of the manse' thing is getting very tiring.

..... Gordon is more like 'the son of DFS'... he who blew his bank balance on credit cards and loans to get a cheap sofa.

1 Megapolitical Junkie....


Good point - a Brown sized foot in mouth moment......

"The age of irresponsibility" - ushered in and maintained by the Iron Chancellor himself.

Hilarious. 'The Age of Irresponsibility must be ended'. Says the guy who has been PM or Chancellor in the UK for the last decade.

Just before going to see the man who has been President for the last 8 years...

He says he approves of the bailout. 'Gee, thanks for that endorsement..' they must be thinking in the Republican party.. 'all our misgivings will now be pushed aside..'

I wonder if he will be going to see that new film about a 'Brit' abroad in New York, based on the book by Toby Young.. "How to lose friends and alienate people.."

Perhaps someone needs to buy him a copy of Dale Carnegie's perpetual best-seller...

p.s. Has anyone warned Dubya about the 'Curse of Gordon'..?

I think Gordon is in the wrong profession. You certainly have to hand it to the man he is without a doubt very talented. Shame his talents are more in the way of stand up comedian rather than Prime Minister.

Kudos to him for managing to keep a straight face though!

"The age of irresponsibility must be ended. We must now become that new global order founded on transparency, not opacity."

That's great then, "Harry Pooter" will come home and together with "Mumblemore" spill the beans on the on his own "Off Balance Sheet" spending. If not the Treasury should put Britain ahead of the Labour Government and tell us what's under the bed.

Can anyone tell me why we should bail out a failed corporation - Gordon's dithering has already made me a shareholder in Northern Rock - though I notice I only seem to be liable for their debts and not I won't be getting shares of their profits.

Let them fail !

10~ Pot Kettle

You're obviously so proud of your 179 post on th other blog I thought I'd better have a look, only to find the "same old same old"

Cue Balhamu to come on and dish out a comprensive drubbing on the economic arguement!!

or

You could just stick to the tried and trusted right wing bloggers method of pluck a figure from the air, add some on, make something up (the IMF reference), no source of info, add a play ground name (Crash Gordon works well)

An end to the age of irresponsibilty says Gordon Brown !!

Presumably this a confession and a promise to change his ways ? His record includes:

never mind tomorrow/bloated levels of public spending - including great swathes of waste

huge hike in number of public sector jobs and associated remuneration packages with salary costs and pensions now looking increasingly unaffordable (Just like the banks?)

big build up debt levels, including huge off the books elements (Just like the banks?)

huge levels of personal debt encouraged, or at best, ignored

ill conceived target related performance and reward systems in the public sector causing
dysfunctional behaviours and managing to combine damaging results with high bonuses. (Just like the banks)

pressing financial service organisations into luring (or at least facilitating) people into commitments they cannot meet, including sub-prime mortgages, via "social exclusion" pressures.

His plea might sound less hypocritcal had he been making cautionary noises to the banks at the time when he was happily using their high levels of corporation tax on profits and income tax on bonuses to fuel his public spending programme - pausing only to take credit for
high levels of new jobs, created to which financial services contributed so much. (Maybe he'll accept some of the blame for the redundacies they are now declaring?)

Whilst accepting that Gordon Brown has acted with good intentions on our road to this hell, the parallels with his behaviour and that of the banks is striking.

I fear the line he is taking could result in an own goal. Certainly
it deserves to.

5
Charles E Hardwidge, are you serious????, unless of course you mean its the end of Brown, the architect of the age of irresponsibility in the UK. Who was the Chancellor throughout?. Who allowed an unchecked boom and easy money??. It was all ok for Brown while the balloon was still up, now its burst, we see the full effect of such irresponsibility. Noone else is to blame but Brown.

I bet Tony Blair is laughing all the way to the bank ...er .....

George Bush is no longer the President of the United States. The man who is putting forward all the ideas, Ron Paul. He may not have power but he is now the man with influence.

Neither of the candidates is up to task. This is no longer a bail out this is now a rescue plan. It is how it is presented. The dollar will collapse. China holds bilions of dollars and they will not be happy when the value collapses.

All that Bush wants is the head of bin Laden, nothing else will do!

Brown was saying the same things 10 years ago during the LTCM debacle and Asian economic crisis.

Then we heard all this posturing about putting in place new regulation to ensure stability of global financial markets.

So, rather than indulge him in his latest PR stunt why aren't the political correspondents digging out his speeches and Treasury press releases from 10 years ago and holding Brown to account for his failure to follow through? he's had 10 years!

5 Charles

Yes I can just see Russia, China, South America and the middle East signing up to some global control agreement.

I very much doubt that they will see the Wests tightening controls as an opportunity to attract wealth and investment to their economies.


Im sure they will play ball and that Gordon is the man to pull the deal together.

Ill tell you what if he does it, I will vote Labour.

Brown is the man who who as C of E boasted about laying the international framework we currently see back in 1998! Check the BBC achives!

Brown is a dreadful politician and has no financial credibility - he lies about everything, takes no responibility and wastes endless amounts of money. It is Brown's irresponsible leadership that needs ending.

I am getting to the point where I will be clapping out my local Labour MP at the next election and chanting:

Labour, Labour, Labour - Out Out Out!

Labour are a doomed nasty, self-centred party: GET THEM OUT and stop smashing the economy.

Oh hold on folks, read the small print:

This new age of responsibility only applies to the private sector.




Quango and council bosses and MPs expenses and second homes will not be affected.

So Gordon Brown saves the day again and gives the Americans an insight into proper regulation and banking requirements.

Instant- Karma for the greedy capitalist, if only the people on this blog could appreciate GB vision of collective responsibility.

Why is D. Cameron so obsessed with de-regulation and short-selling? Is it something to do with the tories nature.


Now that the big bonus days are coming to an end, can we expect the tories to push for tax payers money to fund their party.

Anyway, all in a days work for Gordon, bringing the wrongs of the world to rightful solutions.

Fairlyopenmind may wish to dabble in the dark arts with Conan Doyle as a mentor....well...they both have victorian attitudes.

I think most people are missing the point here. The USA wants to spend $700 Billion to bail out their financial system (and indirectly bail out other global relatives). Central Banks have already poured around $500 billion plus into the markets to aid 'liquidity'. At the same time Gordon Brown is asking for a UN mandated financial watchdog ??? If we are as a people are not careful the one world new world order will be on top of us before we can take a chance to step back and see what has been created. Much like most dictatorships have risen throughout the ages.

No matter what choices are made right now we are all going to suffer horribly - however I would rather suffer and remain free than suffer and wake up to faceless rule from some ivory tower even further removed from us than already is the case.

An end of the 'age of irresponsibility' and an era of 'transparency'.

Rather than just quoting his words Nick, why don't you ask him who was chancellor during this 'age of irresponsibility'? And while you're at it, ask him how transparent it is to keep all the PFI debt off the government's balance sheets.

He is deluded.

31. derekbarker


Theres only one reply to your post, youll find it here

Nick,

I could not fail to see in my early morning paper that 'the wonderful Sarah' has gone on this trip to America. In the meantime Ruth Kelly quits the cabinet to spend more time with the family. So, Gordon who does not want his children in the public eye, who exactly is looking after the kids? Somebody pass the vomit bag please I don't feel very well.

I mean Gordon is such a family man that either he takes them on a wasted trip to America, or he leaves them at home being looked after by somebody else. You can't make it up.

By the way Nick, is your trip to America part of the reward for not letting the cat out of the bag over Sarah at the conference introducing her husband, or am I being just that little bit too cynical. I will never forgive the media for participating in the Harry cover-up. The BBC and other outlets were complicit in a massive cover up. What else has been covered-up. Chicanery in the City? I have personal knowledge of the use by this government of injunctions, what exactly is now being hidden from on national security grounds, or that it may undermine the economy.

Re : Post 31- I'm sorry derekbarker - is that sarcasm ?

Because some people might think you were serious - Gordon Brown for example.

While the labour party are flat out trying to restore the worlds economic problems.

The tories are trying to find some policies, they are even looking for suggested policy, on their web-site.


......................................................................

#34 carrotsneedaQUANGO2

Now! that was funny.......................

nice touch..............hee hee hee(grunt) hee

#10 Pot_Kettle,#22 Eatonrifle,

Not much to disagree with on PKs #179 post. It's mostly opinion.

"Brown hasn't been prudent" - that's opinion really. Depends if you think a "prudent" Chancellor would have paid back more debt and invested less in the public sector or not.

"Brown was irresponsible" - depends whether you think we should have had larger surpluses during the last economic cycle (though note that Brown did keep - or nearly keep according to the Conservatives - his rule of only borrowing to invest over the previous cycle, in comparison with the average massive current deficits the previous Government had).

"Expecting a knock on the door from the IMF asking where the money is" - I think that was said for dramatic effect rather than a real belief.

"Incapable of regulating" - The Conservative's resisted regulation every time that Labour introduced it, and made a lot of political capital from doing so. To suggest that the Conservative will introduce any regulation to stop this happening again (e.g. reform of the incentive structures in the financial industry to make them better serve shareholders interests in the long-term) is misleading.

"Put all the PFI on the books" - Fair point. I agree.

"Stay in his bunker" - er, is he in his bunker at the moment?

"Not resolve the crisis that his mucky paw-prints are all over" - yes, this crisis is all Gordon Brown's fault isn't it? And the one in America - all Brown's fault. Do you really believe that?

Bick

Which idiot can up with the soundbite about "age of irresponsibility"?

Anyone with half a brain could have seen that it would immediately be applied to Gordon the Useless Engine.

PFI anyone?

So, it's back to stuffing the weekly wage under the mattress again... will make bed-time reading all the more enjoyable. A tip from here in Poland: exchange all your hard-earned pounds, euros and dollars into zloties, for a future rainy day, cos they're worth a lot more in your pocket, at the moment at least...

$700billion bail out.

RULES

1 No bonuses for any affected companies for 3 years

2 No salary increases for 3 years.

3 After 3 years bonuses to be related to company performance and not individual performance - promotes teamwork not individual

4 No one to be allowed to leave and return at a higher salary (closes loophole).

5 Transparent accountancy with all off-balance activities disclosed in full with long fines and jail sentences for anyone evading the rules.

See how that straight-jackets the big shots.

Have I missed anything? And me a Conservative!!!

Nick

On first reading your newslog I was filled with righteous indignation that Gordon Brown could be so hypocritical preaching to others about something that he is so guilty of himself. However, after a time to reflect, I think he really believes that he is whiter than snow and totally innocent of any financial irresponsibility himself.

He reminds me of Ludwig II of Bavaria who is responsible for the fairy tale castle, Neuschwanstein, featured in a certain film about a flying car. He was found floating in a lake, allegedly "removed" from power by loyal subjects who could see that if he was left alone he would bankrupt the kingdom building his fairy tale castles.

At least Ludwig II of Bavaria left behind some beautiful castles. When Gordon is eventually defeated in the polling booths, his legacy will not be so pretty.

The banks are laughing themselves silly at the mere thought that the US government is going to *give* them $700 billion. Who wouldn't? If every kid who got overdrawn at college had their debts paid off at the end of term, they would never learn any kind of responsibility.

The only way out of this crisis and to make sure it doesn't happen again in a few years is to make it clear that any funds handed over to help out are a loan. The financial institutions will have to pay them back over a maximum of 10 years at a rate of 10% of the loan value or 10% of their annual profits, whichever is the higher, plus 5 times the gross amount paid to any member of staff who earns more than $75,000. Remunerations *must* be declared. And anyone who is employed to administer this scheme should be paid on a middle management grade government salary. The banks will have up to a month to declare the amount of bad assets they have and any further bad investments will not be covered.

My parents taught me financial responsibility when I went to secondary school 32 years ago. I got an allowance cheque paid on the first day of the month. This covered my bus fares, pocket money, dinner money, Guide subs and any other necessary expenses. I had a clothing allowance that covered everything including school uniform. If I needed more money, I either took on a paper round or had to make a case for an increase in my allowance. There were no subsidies if I fell short at the end of the month.

The banks are gambling with their investors' money. They have made enough profits over recent years that hasn't gone back to the investors or shareholders, so why should taxpayers bail them out. This is only a crisis because we let it be one. Tell the banks they should fork out or go to the wall.

#31 derekbarker

......So Gordon Brown saves the day again and gives the Americans an insight into proper regulation and banking requirements.

Instant- Karma for the greedy capitalist, if only the people on this blog could appreciate GB vision of collective responsibility........

Of all the deluded tosh you have offered us here, the above words are up there with the best.

Gordon Brown is the architect of all of the current economic woes of this country.
If such a thing still exists, I wouldn't trust this man to run a local Christmas club.

He is a disingenuous menace that must be allowed to go no further and has a hide thicker than a rhino'

When, if ever, will BBC journalists take this man to task and make him answer questions he has studiously ignored or batted back? Put him in a studio with Paxman and lock the door behind them.

Such an understatement! but, for all the past decade when the bubble began growing beyond control, Mr Brown was THE main responsible to supervise the banking system.
Across the Atlantic H. Paulson was lamentable, when testifying in the Congress, said that he suddenly realised that the regulatory framework was not good for 21st century fanancial system. Really?! while being Chairman and CEO of GS he was not aware about the thin air that the banks securitised and sold to one another?
It's amazing that no member of the Government or the Parliament has resigned as a protest to this scandal.

No, No. The age of irresponsibility began with the guy whose eyebrows have a mind of their own. He wants to go back to the time when it was all run by the guy whose jaw has a mind of its own.

Nick,

I know that at the moment all the attention seems to be on Gordon Brown but some of us have not forgotten about young Tony, the man who really got us into this mess.

I was wondering if anybody could help me to answer a question about 'our Tony' and it relates back to his school days. I have heard rumours to the extent that he was known as 'Matilda' as in the Hilaire Beloc poem of the same name.

I would hope that other commentators would look up for themselves the said poem and say whether it could be true or not. Remember the Iraq war was started by Bliar but funded by Brown.

Usually you get what a politican is saying if you invert part of the speech -

'I'm the man for the job' becomes 'I'm not the man for the job'

'Labour doesnt want to move to the left' becomes 'Labour wants to move to the left'

Calling the conference audience 'my friends' becomes 'my enemies'.

'An end to irresponsibility' becomes 'I want to continue being irresponsible'

dead easy really, then you know what they are trying to say

For a really refreshing take on the present moment of crisis, I recommend that you watch this evening's French news bulletin on TF1 ([Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]), in the course of which the whole thing is characterized - surprise, surprise - as the failure of "Anglo-Saxon capitalism", which is a bad thing and needs to be reformed along French lines. I shall spare you details of what is meant by this, so that the impact of the broadcast will not be reduced for you.

Not that I wish to disparage the coverage of the BBC, but there are other ways of looking at things, and here is the proof. Incidentally, I should warn those of you who may be of anglocentric disposition, and that will be most of you, that in one of the reports a map of western Europe is shown in which the true proportions of Scotland in relation to England are revealed. It's a bit of a shocker for those of you accustomed only to British media maps. Just turn away from the screen until it passes. The French being so regrettably French, chaps, they see no reason to distort reality.

PM urges financial responsibility ?????????

Pot. Kettle. Black

This man's hypocrisy is truly awesome.

did anyone hear brown's speech? it was woeful, people can say you shouldn't judge a leader on presentation but he still has to convince people about what he's saying - whether it's the public or a bunch of diplomats, who was he even meant to be talking to? us or the yanks?

"The age of irresponsibility must be ended".

So at last the Clown is admitting he was an irresponsible Chancellor, I presume. Mind you, ost of us knew it, anyway, but i guess it's nice of him to change the habit of a political lifetime, and come clean at last.

You don't realise how hard it is for government to really dictate and regulate these big financial institutions. They are more powerful than the 'Chancellor'. We're slaves to the American corporations, but no longer. There failure is finally something we can use as leverage.

I seriously doubt Gordon Brown didn't try.

So according to Brown all our problems are still 100% due to the americans, and have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he didn't bother with any regulation whatsoever in his own country for the last 11 years or the fact that he didn't put any money away for hard times during a boom.

Brown: "a new global order"
scary words; the american electorate must be seething with him at the moment for saying something like that.

Please Gordon, stay out of their business and sort out the problems in your own country before you start lecturing others.

I'm looking forward to 2010 when we finally get a chance to put this unelected deluded man out of power.

#45

Well...Well..Miss polo and too which criteria do you behold to?


Your enigma encapsulates that of a dull privately educated tory.

Dont you like the BBC....(Is it because it tells the truth) or are you just being a little bit cantankerous.

Its OK to say that the gobal down-turn didn't start in Britain and that GB is doing a great job as PM.........

derekb

BBC report: "The age of irresponsibility must be ended. We must now become that new global order founded on transparency, not opacity."

Well, well. I can absolutely agree with Gordon Brown. That may surprise you.

But (there's always a but...) I'd be happy for GB to start this process in the UK.

If GB made a public statement about the off-balance-sheet commitments made on our behalf, I'd be impressed. (Not by the sums involved, but by a little transparency.)

It hasn't happened yet. So our children will be a little surprised to learn just how much pay-back they are expected to shoulder.

I really like spending on good public services. Just would like to know how much it's going to cost me or my children.

"Anyway, all in a days work for Gordon, bringing the wrongs of the world to rightful solutions."

The wrongs of the world would take more than Gordon to resolve. I can't quite pick out how GB has brought rightful solutions in Zimbabwe or Burma or Sudan.

No imperialist feelings. Just hate governments that pi** money away on really stupid projects, while the locals destroy each other. How can we react to genuine genocide or citizen abuse, when - well you wouldn't understand.

"Fairlyopenmind may wish to dabble in the dark arts with Conan Doyle as a mentor....well...they both have victorian attitudes."

Dark arts? Did you ever read Conan Doyle?
He was a bit of an idiot in some ways. The Sherlock stuff was based on an idea that forensic examination of the facts made sense. Obviously that aspect didn't impact on you.

I seem to recall a time when the UK produced a huge amount of ships. Mostly in Scotland and the NE of England. And Belfast.
That was post-Victorian.

Only ended by rather dumb ship-yard owners and bl***y stupid workers' unions.

Doesn't it seem a little odd that the best shipbuilders will rely on overseas input to deliver a vessel?

Just a bit hard to know whether to sympathise with your condition, or hope you'll look at and understand postings.

To repeat... I have voted for Tory/Labour Liberal and Independent (genuinely independent not UKIP/BNP/ other daft groups, over many years. At different levels of government.

I don't like tribal politics.

You seem to believe that's a necessary fact of life.

Poor you.

Brown made a blunder, thinking he was only addressing the Americans... no, he was heard loudand clear everywhere... Fisher would have him checkmated immediately, the rest of us have to wait to the end game...

55. getridofgordonnow


I'm looking forward to 2010 when we finally get a chance to put this unelected deluded man out of power.

I have serious fears that this will not come about. There are so many unemployed people in this country, who even before the "credit crunch" depended on State benefits. With a worsening economic situation, this army of no-hopers will only increase, and Brown will grow ever more powerful as his dependents grow in number. What little cash there is will be poured into purchasing computers for sink-estate children, more perks for deliquent families and nothing for the struggling, decent underpaid hard-working families. They will simply be sold down the river to maintain Brown's power base.
I hope I am wrong, I really do. But I have little faith anymore in the average voter. Many who were never in their lives tory, will find it impossible to vote for that party. The Lib-Dems are seen as a joke by a large segment of the population, so those who have been betrayed by Nu Labour will vote for the smaller parties, further splintering a viable opposition against Brown. I hope, indeed I PRAY that I am wrong.

56. derekbarker says
"#45 Well...Well..Miss polo and too which criteria do you behold to?
Your enigma encapsulates that of a dull privately educated tory".

Derek......you really are such a bigot..
1) Not all privately educated people are dull.

2) Quite a lot of state educated people are dull ...and some are illiterate too.

3) Not all privately educated people are Tory.....witness Blair, Harman, Miliband

4) Quite a lot of bright privately educated people come from poor homes and are are paid for by bursaries.

I don't think that losing the argument gives you the right to be rude.

#57
I dont tell you who to vote for, its OK if you cant quite work-out the difference between the politics of parties.

For your information Govan ship yard still builds ships to this date (the trade unions have help to secure many contracts)

Genocide is not a new crime.( the Romans used to throw the christians to lions, for a sport)

You really are building up a funeral pyre of hatred against the poor people in society.

What have you done today to make yourself feel proud....(you probably cant answer that!)

'You can fool some of the people all the time and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.' George W Bush

Rich Bankers’ errors? If only life were that simple, we could have Nick Robinson as prime minister and ditch democracy.

The seeds of this crisis are far more to with a banking system whose market has been distorted by over regulation and government meddling (this is even more true of the mortgage market in the U.S.).

Smaller UK players could not dream of entering a market with the high hurdles that have been set. Instead we have a few giant banks instead of many competitors and these giants are part of a money chain wedded to public finances. Problems that should be contained spread like a wildfire.

This will get a whole lot worse if the BBC has its way and the government add yet more controls. The hurdles will be higher, running costs will be higher and there will be even fewer players all operating identical systems and taking more risks in order to wriggle from the straightjacket and keep up with those countries that operate with relatively little restriction.

All I can see at the end of this is one nationalised bank and most businesses banking abroad in order to obtain favourable rates from proper commercial banks.

But why worry about the detail – keep it simple Nick and just blame the rich bankers.

#60

Losing what argument.........

Arguments are for bitter twisted people.

Now! if you say labour is winning the debate, on the politics of Britain, then I would concur with your statement.

Re Post 59

I see you have the ol' fire stoke up again, real bonfire of the vanities agoing. Sorry, but the NuLab spin cycle has nearly run out, the bearing have gone on the machine. If DC was the star out of my Uncle is an Alien he would still get it at the moment. And when that Labour bit said my Mum told me about men like that, never let them near your ballot box, that clinched it.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#59

You have no need to worry. The "army of no hopers" tend not to vote anyway. The middle-classes and the old are far more likely to vote than the working-classes and the young. There is a lot of research showing this (e.g. in the 2005 general election, turnout was 54% in socio-economic groups D and E and 80% in the top 2 social groups). It definitely does not favour Labour - if they haemorrage support from the 'hard-working families' in the middle-class as seems likely, they will lose the election.

Besides, this 'army' was far bigger in the mid-1980s and early-1990s, when I believe the Conservatives did ok in general elections...

64., derekbarker wrote:

"#60 Losing what argument.........

Arguments are for bitter twisted people.
Now! if you say labour is winning the debate, on the politics of Britain, then I would concur with your statement".

So.. if in your mind you are winning the debate.....there is still no justification for you to be RUDE.

65. glanafon

I really hope you're right and I'm wrong.
It was that Harman so-and-so who said that rubbishy thing. If a man said that about a female, she would have them up in court for sexual discrimination.

Why sneer at the manse, Nick? Isn't responsibility exactly what is required here?

Yes it's true Gordon, we've all been so irresponsible, excepting you and your shining disciples.

We will wear sackcloth and ashes until you lead us to the promised land.

To repeat... I have voted for Tory/Labour Liberal and Independent (genuinely independent not UKIP/BNP/ other daft groups, over many years. At different levels of government.

I don't like tribal politics.

Join the club. Plus, I've taken time to explain my overview, why I tend to by sympathetic towards Labour for the moment, and I've given time to the more rabid folks in here only to get my hand bitten off. So, I tend to tune them out until they come to their senses.

I've been a member and voted for both opposition parties, and my eyes glaze over at the harcore party animals on both their side and smokestack Labour. I could and would stand for any party but they'd kick me out as I have a mind of my own.

JC argues for independent candidates and a seperate England, while I tend to be a one party state and unification type. In really, they're the same thing same much as the party system. The problem is people.

derekb

It may be a surprise to you, but many (most?) posters want the UK to do well. As a nation - but also for its citizens.

It's mostly hard work.

Hard to encourage new ideas. Hard to translate into practical reality.

But it's easy to spend money. Especially if it was never yours - just taken via taxes.

I have no idea what you think GB will achieve in New York or Washington.

I hope the US will sort out a problem of their making.

I'd like to think that Brown would point out exactly what he did to manage the problem in the UK... I can't see a lot of evidence for his wonderful management style having delivered a lot for our citizens.

I really don't give a stuff which party is in power. But I do care about having people who can deliver.

A new world global order. Dear God, wasn't that what Hitler wanted?

I don't much like George Bush Jr. I gather that he graduated higher than Al Gore from his MBA class. Al claimed to have "invented" the Internet. Balls. Like his climate warming film. It's on the edge of insanity.

Funny really. Folk worried about a malfunctioning electoral system that gifted GBII his presidency. JFK acknowledged that Nixon should have won their contest, because Chicago was a truly corrupt area of the US voting regime, but swung the vote.

JFK headed "Camelot" -which was a big ask. Clinton was "Sha*alot" - which was obviously quite acceptable to the US voters. I'd still prefer an Obama win.

I don't think it matters a good goddamn whether a politician looks or sounds good on TV. But I do like it if they manage our tax spend in a sensible manner.

#68

I think if you refer to your post #60
as a rude stataement....again I would agree.

Well, well, well. The BBC, in blocking two perfectly proper posts from me reveals itself to be engaging in nothing less than a form of wholly unjustifiable censorship.

How shocking. You should be ashamed of yourselves. What a disgrace. What on earth is going on?

I demand that both posts be allowed or the reasons for blocking them be stated.

#60

"3) Not all privately educated people are Tory.....witness Blair, Harman, Miliband"

Could have fooled me. The certainly act like Tories.

#73
Britain has an interest in what happens in America and especially the American economy.

The big banks are multi -national in status and dealings, what happens in American banks has a direct effect on Britain.

I dont doubt the British publics will, for a better Britain but I do have doubts as to what the general public would recommend as a fair and just society.

I dont think it would be a good idea to bank the peoples tax.

I dont think you have given an efficiency savings projection of 3% any serious thought as to how and where it could be gained (without the loss of employment)

Is it not strange, that the mortgage society of today has caused the biggest economical
earth quake for decades(was the right to buy such a good idea?)


Would it not be great if schools and hospitals could receive the same attention as mortgages seem to get.

#75 European_Unionist

It can be strange sometimes identifying the bit that a mod wants to block. I've had this previously, and only found the offending bit by posting the statement in sections.

Good Luck!

I presume that 'Global Oversight' of the financial systems means that politicians will appoint themselves to even better positions. We need to clean up our own cupboard and set an example that others in the world can follow. Lets face it countries can't even get a collective response together when shooting wars break out so what would be the incentive for them to do this over a financial problem?
As usual politicians do what they do best and this in another example of one talking through his hat. No wonder no one votes in the UK anymore.

Perhaps my first response to derekbarker #56 was too lengthy and the moderators couldn't be bothered to read it through............

#56 derekbarker Good morning
.......#45
Well...Well. Miss Polo and too which criteria do you behold to?
Your enigma encapsulates that of a dull privately educated Tory.
Don’t you like the BBC....? (Is it because it tells the truth) or are you just being a little bit cantankerous.
It’s OK to say that the global down-turn didn't start in Britain and that GB is doing a great job as PM.........
---
Part one -I copied and pasted your complete post for my convenience to refer to here, apologies to all for the repetition.
My education at least allows me to sort the eleven letters of my screen name into the right order. I think to contribute here a decent level of education is prerequisite. My educational history is irrelevant, my children though, will benefit from the same encouragement I had, supportive parents who understood the ethos of hard work and application............. Part One

#77 derekbarker

......Would it not be great if schools and hospitals could receive the same attention as mortgages seem to get......

Are you saying with your words the NHS and Education have insufficient funding under El Gordo and the lads at Labour?

Sorry I'm confused!!

I don't think it matters a good goddamn whether a politician looks or sounds good on TV. But I do like it if they manage our tax spend in a sensible manner.

While you acknowledge difficulties this is the bit you don't get, ideas and sentiments, or talk, is cheap. There's a cognitive dissonce in there. If you pursue it you'll only end up getting angry and bitter.

Folks in here blame the government if it does something and blame the government if it doesn't do something. It's the easy win because their performance is never tested as they duck back into the anonymous herd.

Developing policy, getting people on board, and making stuff happen takes effort. There's no magic wand, and if folks weighed their own life they'd know that's true. This is why Zen focuses on self improvement.

#81

Part one - reason to be cheerful (part 3)

Ethos...is the combination, to which we all attribute to attainment.

Parents are our guiding light.

My children will receive all the things you have mentioned above.

Nick,

For someone who is supposed to be a `serious political commentator`; this is pathetic.

How about an age of `Media Responsibility`?.

Gordon Brown was in charge of the British economy for ten of the last eleven years. He obviously carries much of the blame for the present situation.

Looks like the economy is now on par with the main Media News Broadcasters, -`rotten and corrupt to it's core`.

85 cruiskeen

The political media, particularly those who appear regularly on TV, are in reality half-clever celebrities.

Half-clever because they like to show that they mix with the great and the good which is not the real world. Like most celebrities they deal in sound bites.

Nick for example never ever gives in depth coverage of anything. He has the odd two minutes slot on the news or at conferences, and most of that is about what un-named persons have said in the background. I know he can be "funny" but I really don't know what he knows and I treat his pieces more like a gossip column than factual.

The clever media person is the one that can look at the facts and relate them to the ordinary person in detail.

In fact the whole political world is unreal. It is all soundbites because most of the time the politicians don't know what they are doing, and the media believe we have a short attention span (focus groups, urg!!!).

I am constantly depressed by programmes like the Today programme on Radio 4 where an interesting debate just gets going when John Humphrys says "Well, weve got to leave it there" (after he has interupted ad nauseum) only for the next item to be about Mrs Jones, cat which was rescued by a 5 years old girl (you know what I mean!!!).

the two GB's, nearly as funny as the "two ronnies"! two men well past their sell by date, trying to look important on the world stage whilst everyone is laughing at them.
Gordon castigating business for hiding problems "off balance sheet".....excuse me but what is PFI?.....

Blair Bush Brown Boom Bust


Pot Kettle Black

Regardless of a bail out - if you are affected by the credit crunch, facing repossession or affected by the failure of proper financial regulation, or by a bail out - legal proceedings can be taken against the legislation, orders and against the decisions they made.

derekbarker

I've given up on part two, couldn't post the second half presumably for technical reasons

next...

C_E_H

Me: I don't think it matters a good goddamn whether a politician looks or sounds good on TV. But I do like it if they manage our tax spend in a sensible manner.

You: "While you acknowledge difficulties this is the bit you don't get, ideas and sentiments, or talk, is cheap. There's a cognitive dissonce in there. If you pursue it you'll only end up getting angry and bitter."

I actually read all your stuff. I try to work out what you're attempting to get across.

But I simply don't understand this.

I'm very aware that ideas and sentiments, or talk, is cheap. That's why I like politicians (or businessmen and women) who do stuff well, even if they aren't the glossiest presenters. That's why I focus on getting stuff done - NOT the presentational flim-flam.

I've stood up and presented in around 20 countries, worrying all the time that the production guys could actually deliver what I was allowed to promise.

I've also run bits of business, where - encouraging and using other people's smarts plus a bit of technology - productivity rose by 40%, with minor cost increases and no loss of personnel.

(That's just to reassure derekb that I'm not a "slash and burn" type... And that was within a state-owned company.)

Have also helped cut huge chunks (millions) off IT project costs. Not because I could deliver the practical end-result, but by chopping through administrative overheads.

A little bit of anger can be useful. Plenty of people have been angry at me. Sometimes quite rightly. Sometimes because I challenged assumptions they didn't need to make, but were part of a "corporate expectation" and would simply add unneccesary cost and/or time.

I'd be happy to learn that Ministers jumped up and down, screamed and shouted, to get big chunks of loot (our tax money) lopped off projects.

Funny, isn't it derekb, that I actually like to keep costs under control. That should please you, as an awful lot of government spend goes to those terrible consultancy-led organisations. Kick 'em once, you get a little bit off. Kick 'em all the way through negotiations and costs disappear like a master-slimmers hips. (Been there, so I know how to do it...)

Patronising Pat H was one of the worst. She (with Brown's approval) permitted quite unneccesary hikes in GP and consultants' income. More than they expected. But then Brown claims a great breakthrough, by "forcing" GPs to do what they were already doing much more cheaply.

Just madness. But it doesn't matter, really, because it's just "Government" spending. Actually, it's not. It's our spending.

Bitterness isn't worth the effort.

Ideas are critical in private and public life. Just sloshing them about (as Blair and all the NL project team did) doesn't add an iota to anyone's life.

I don't need a "man with a vision" as PM. I need someone who will define a fairly simple, understandable, set of "next-steps" and then control their delivery.

It's the lack of control over delivery that makes this administration seem inept.

Does that make me sound bitter?

Oh, well.

I'm off to see my old Mum for a while, so probably won't enjoy the dog-fight for a few days. She, by the way, was a science teacher, but no child ever left her class year being unable to read! If she spotted someone with problems, she'd work with them to ensure they could cope and keep up...

Guess that's what education is really about. It certainly isn't about buildings or teaching-to-the-test...

I'm glad to see that Gordo is a champion of change. For example, he's changed his favourite conspiracy-nut trigger phrase from "New World Order" all the way to "New Global Order". How fresh!

I wonder that you will still be talking, Signior
Gordo: nobody marks you.

FOM, We sound similar in many ways. The general picture you're painting is a familiar one. What I'm saying is folks don't always listen or play fair,and it can get difficult to know the difference between a friend and an enemy. You have some ability and luck on your side but not everyone does. Sometimes, you have to deal with the situation and people you're issued with, and it isn't always pretty.

Taking a few days off can help restore a bit of sanity, so that's some good timing on your part.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Boom Blair Bush Baghdad Basra BROWN : Banking system BUST

Cameron Caring Considerate Cautious Conscientious Clever Core values : Conservative

People won't lose their homes if the banks go under, if the only way to keep savings is by giving more money to the people alleged to be looking after them that is the same sort of scam as is run by these people who enail you to say you have won a big prise but first have to send them a commission fee, Jobs need not be lost except in the banking industry - the productive economy is still producing as fast as ever.

#95 flamepatricia

Sorry old girl, don't call us, we will call you.
If you are thinking of becoming a slogan writer or PR person, don't give up the day job.

97 pheonixarison so we meet again in unison I think with reference to another blog Flaming patricia might have stayed in the wig wam to long.

91 fairlyopenminded, I think Putin might be the man for you. he might be open to offers.

She, by the way, was a science teacher, but no child ever left her class year being unable to read
did they learn anything about science though?

#98 grandantidote

Felt guilty after I wrote it, because she seems so childish, she must surely be very young and I don't like to put youth down. Unless, of course, as you suggest, she has been too long in the wigwam!