The next prime minister?

I fear that we are about to see the end of parliamentary democracy in the UK. Just like the thirties we will effectively have a government of national unity.

The problem is that I honestly believe that the economic crisis will lead to such financial insecurity that there will be a threat of revolution. A revolution either from the left, or the right. The wars in the Afghanistan and Iraq are always going to be the problem.

The unions are flexing their muscle for when labour implodes with the electorate. It will be another case of who runs Britain, the unions or democracy. We have no democracy.

Gordon will not serve a full term if labour is elected. Who will lead the country through difficult times, I don't think that any of the political parties have a true leader. I think that the game is up. The revolution is near.

As for Queen and country, the Queen is coming to the end of her reign and I don't think Charles, William or any of them is capable of handling the new society.

Revolutions just happen, nobody knows how they start or why, this the end!

Dear Nick,
I suggest Gordon Brown and the Labour Party, read " HAVE YOUR SAY, " about Browns first year in Office, there is only one word for it "Failure," and that applies to everything, as well as the Ministers in this "joke of a Governemnt."

Nick

The fact that at Henley yesterday only 1,066 (interesting number for those who believe in such things) people voted for the candidate from the party who have in office for 11 years says it all. This is a government in electoral freefall.

"Could be the next Prime Minister"? If I was a bookmaker I'd only be taking bets on the size of the Tory majority now.

I think there's a real chance that Brown may lead NuLabour to the greatest humiliation any politician has suffered at a General Election in modern times - when it is eventually held, which I suspect will be as close as possible to the last legal date.

Time for you and other commentators to start focussing on the transition, rather than every Government announcement of a new policy that's the same as the old failed policy or the same money re-arranged.

General Election NOW.

Gordon has proved to be a terrible, terrible leader. After 10 years of stabbing his boss in the back he has demonstrated he is simply not up to the job of prime minister.

Endless tax rises and borrowing, with public money wasted on a huge scale (more buearacracy, quangos, northern rock, 10p tax debacle, PFI, etc) has made this country a horrible to place to live in. The only people who are better off than they were 11 years ago is the ever-growing army of welfare claimants.

NuLabour - please go.

David Camerons toughest test will be fixing the problems he wil inherit from Labour:

- Stopping the UK from splitting apart

- Make it easier for people to retire affordably. Reverse over generous public sector pensions.

- Kick start the economy again.

- Actual reform of schools, hospitals and police, rather than spray-cash-and-pray

- Get rid of 1000's of those 6th Form politics inspired Quangos, that might sound nice - but deliver nothing

- Reform the House of Lords (properly)

How utterly depressing and how utterly predictable. David' Dave' Cameron doesn't seem able to see beyond the old school tie.
As for Labour losing out to the BNP at Henley: Thanks a lot, Labour, you've actually made it easier for people to vote for these idiots.
What a failure!

Unfortunately - in todays political climate you can't give too much detail on your policies in the run up to an election. David Cameron has learnt his lesson from Tony Blair well here.

Cameron must learn lessons from another Labour leader, Gordon Brown:

1. If the Conservatives get into government, they must not stall, after 10 years wanting to run the country they must be able to demonstrate that the policy cupboard is not bare and that they know how they are going to fix the things that matter.

2. They should not launch awful policies in huge volumes just to try and prove to the public they are busy.

What a waste: a whole year spent digging ourselves deeper into a hole.

Thanks Gordon. You've had you wish come true and you've blown it. Be a man and take the only honourable option open to you: resign.

All the very best leaders first learn their trade by learning to be good followers. That way they learn the truth of what it is like to be a follower, and crucially, what it is that motivates people to become followers.
Unfortunately Gordon does'nt seem to have got it.
All of those he inherited a year ago have rumbled him. The only ones who are still following are there with the hope of picking over whatever remains when he finally goes.

Whether DC is the next Prime Minister or not remains to be seen but it will certainly not be GB. I suspect in the minds of the electorate the issue with GB is not so much about specific policies, although these are important, but his style of leadership and embarrassing behaviour when representing us on the international stage. Whatever people think about Tory policies, or lack of them, it seems they believe that DC will be an effective leader of his party and country. Too late for the Labour party now but I bet the're kicking themselves for not appointing somebody more like Cameron or Blair rather than the Dear Leader.

I'll tell you why it doesn't matter who will be the next PM. I have become so cynical that today the major supermarkets are all announcing concerted action to bring down prices.

I wonder over which period it is that the Office for National Statistics compiles its data for the next CPI/RPI. Surely not over the next couple of days.

I can be sure that the month on which the benefits are calculated for next year will show a surprising dip, only for the following month all the delayed price rises hit the consumer.

Do I trust anybody any more, no. That is why the country is nearly ungovernable, as admitted by the politicians telling us all the time that we are subject to global forces beyond their control. You can't have it both ways.

I'm seriously concerned that we will have no more choice in whom will be the next prime minister than we did in being stuck with the wretched Gordon Brown. The way things are going, one can see a state of emergency being called, whilst data is swiftly updated to show previous voting patterns and allegiances. The fact that this data will promptly be 'lost' will not remove the anxiety its collection will cause. Of course, the possibility of Brown having a complete nervous breakdown will leave us with nothing but Balls!

If Milliband went for the leadership now he would in.

He would then have 2 years to turn Labour around.

If he leaves it until after the general election, which Labour will lose, he may have to wait another 8-10 years to be PM.

Lets face facts. The economic mess Brown has got us in (he may not have caused the current world economic problems but he has failed to prepare for a downturn by reckless spending, budget deficits etc), Labour will not be forgiven quickly or easily.

It took the Tories a long time to get the country out of the mess it was in in the late 1970's. This is why despite large unemployment in the 1980's most people understood why it took time to sort out the mess they inherited. This is why the Tories won 4 elections in a row.

Labour promised no more boom or bust when they came to power. If the economy had been handled correctly by not encouraging everyone to spend spend spend with money they did not have we would have been able to withstand the ecomonic pressures currently being experienced. However, this is exactly how Labour economic policy is governed. Spend money they haven't got and pay it back later.

Essentially the public are going to be faced with deciding between a dour dithering Scot or a chirpy, PR man on a role.

Labours only hope is to change leader, reduce spending and taxation, get to grips with the huge levels of waste and inefficiencies in the public sector and pray the economy turns.

In a much simpler way of course its just what families all over the county are doing right now with their household budgets.

Labour needs to listen, learn and catch up fast.

So like no 3 says time to start focusing on the transition then.

'Get rid of 1000's of those 6th Form politics inspired Quangos'

You got that right, and get rid of the gaggle of head girls turned finger wagging headmistresses that form Gordon Brown's praetorian guard.

Ah but it's all too late, we have two years of uncomfortable dog days to suffer through before they are gone, only to be replaced by the same animal with a different collar.

I think that DC has identified a number of savings that can be made for future policies. As demonstratied, NuLab steal ideas and tinker with them and pass them as their own. DC will annouce the savings when there is no time or that the chance of implimenting them will be too late for Gordon and Co.

I really believe that the imploding Labour party will be the 3rd party after the GE. This will help DC as Nick Clegg has been seen as the weakest of leaders, this could of course change after the GE.

Business is fed up with Labour and in general are waiting for the change of leadership - the question is, will the change happen before many go to the wall.

Nick,

We are just following the cycle here.

70s - Labour ruin the country.
80s/90s- Tories repare the damage.
90s/00s- Labour ruin the country.
00s/10s- Tories repare the damage.

Cameron is 100% our next Prime Minister. I listen to the bookies, they get it right everytime, whilst most of you pundits look at everything through red-tinted glasses always believing the best about Labour!

Nothing changes - the country is in a right royal mess.
Who we vote for in 2 or whatever years will make not a jot of difference.
Democracy as practiced in the UK is a complete farce - it just doesn't work. Dont be fooled into thinking your vote makes one iota of difference.
We need a real change, a real revolution where we actually make a difference to the way we are governed.
Policiticians forget they govern us on license - we are controlled form the moment we wake up - controlled by fear whipped up because thats the only way to control us.
Kick em all out and make a real difference.
Gordon should go now - as should the majority of his paid entourage, kick out the quangos, cut the Govt pay bill - get power back to the regions and put it into our hands to govern our own affairs.

The person needed for the job of Labour PM is Frank Field but he is not to be chosen because he is too honest.

Just about the only absolute certainty is that Labour will not be in power at Westminster in 2010.

We assume that means that 'Dave' and the Tories will be running the show.

But only in England and (partly) Wales, because the Scots will be off to full independence*.

Cameron will just have to negotiate the best deal possible with the Scottish Government for us English.

I am sure the English will be watching closely.

* Despite the Westminster Scottish mafia and fellow Scottish travellers in the London media i.e. Wark, Linklater and the rest of the usual suspects.

Is it not the case that he who pays the piper calls the tune. This lamentable government needs to be piped out now.

As every day passes I fear for my sons, in their thirties and what exactly have they got to look forward to? I worry more about what is not getting reported than what is!

I will never forgive the media for their actions over Harry in Afghanistan, shame on you all, everything is national security. The complicity in staying silent says it all. Who runs the country?

Listen to the comments of Jack Straw and learn about the party managers who meet in parliament, then you may learn something.

Do not let Gordon Brown set the agenda, it is the illegal wars which need sorting. No injunctions preventing free speech.

Thought I'd join the malcontents for a while. There does seem to be new levels of hysteria today, Revolution, state of emergency to name but 2.

Would that make it similar to 1981 with riots in virtualy every city? I guess so.

Is there any possibillity of slight exageration as to how bad it is to live in the UK in 2008. Every similar western economy appears to be going through exactly the same problems. There's no real sign that I can see that it's worse here than anywhere else. The tax may be sliced up in different ways but is broadly the same level accross Europe, some higher than UK some Lower and this can be sensibly checked out.

Most economic measures where they can be compared like for like are brodly similar and the trends/direction similar.

For all I know perhaps the reactionary response is too!

There's never been a guarantee (not in my lifetime) of continueing and ever growing economic prosperity. Perhaps your life experience has been different to mine. If people thought that how thins have been in the economy from about 1995 to 2007 made us immune to malign economic influences perhaps it was a naive view?

21#

You seem to be speaking pretty freely and have no problem expressing you opinions (illegal wars) as if facts.

Better watch out a subversive like you is probably bugged!

This government is so weak! We have a leadership (if you can call it that), who is desperate to be liked but is out of touch. GB wasn't elected by the population and refuses to listen to the population. We have no referendum on Europe despite being promised one. We have a legal system that pays more attention to the criminal than the victim. We have a government that introduces laws to promote "Positive Discrimination". When has any form of discrimination been positive?
The streets aren't getting any safer, Prisons are full, our children's education is bound by red tape and the indigenous population, struggling to stay afloat feel like they come second place to welfare claimants who have never paid tax in their lives.
School places are allowed to be reserved for set ethnic groups (positve discrimination again?) and long gone are the days of the 3Rs in school!
When will somebody step up to the plate and say......
" This is Britain, you can live here if you follow these rules... We speak English, You work and you pay taxes (we apologise that these are high at the moment but are working on it). Your children go to the school in your area on a first come first served basis. Schools teach reading, writing and arithmetic. Respect will be taught at home and obeyed everyday. The colour of your skin and your religion is of no concern to us, just respect each other and obey the law. If you break them you will be punished severely. If you act inhumanely, you lose your human rights! When you retire you can have some of the money back that you have paid in, as a pension. Everybody who can work, will work. Cleaning and manual labour are respectable positions. If you need health care, you will receive this out of your NI contributions, If you want to go private, you don't need to pay NI, but you must have one or the other! When you die, your family can inherit everything you've worked so hard for. Please enjoy your life in Britain!"

We all know that this won't happen though!...When have politicians ever listened to the electorate?

#23.

It is not me you want to worry about!

It is those who are now being prevented by court injunctions from speaking in public.

It is the moderators who are in control! Who are these people?

Does anybody out there actually think that the war in Iraq was anything but illegal. Weapons of Mass Destruction. Spinning about threats to the UK, the death of Dr. David Kelly.

The irrefutable fact that the troops were on the border ready to attack as soon as Bush and Blair wanted it to happen.

I would say that Winston Churchill was in the wilderness for years because nobody wanted to believe him. Nobody would listen, well I am no Winston Churchill but there are people who know the truth and what is shameful is that they staying silent.

We have taken part in extra-ordinary rendition. We have handed over civilians to be tortured and killed. I will try my utmost to bring the truth to the people. if they want to hear it, so be it, if not, there is not much that I can do, but I will go to my grave saying that at least I tried. I didn't stay silent.

How does Cameron think he can fix the broken society without meddling in peoples lives. Such as intervening with how children are brought up which he has suggested. Telling people they should be married.

This Bottom up instead of top down nonsense is just jargon. Not meddling in society is the sort of rubbish that people spout on these message boards it means nothing. Actually to these tory messegers it means stop meddling in our lives in the ways we don't like, such as speed cameras and traffic wardens etc. You can meddle in the lives of the riff raff as much as you like.

Looking forward to living in this fantasy world of no crime, happy families and the trickle down economy making everybody better off. Like it was in the 80's and early 90's.

History is all we can judge Conservatives on. They have given us nothing of any substance to suggest any change. so don't start.

If GB is still PM after the next GE then I'm a dutchman!

LeaveEUnow @17wrote
"
70s - Labour ruin the country.
80s/90s- Tories repare the damage.
90s/00s- Labour ruin the country.
00s/10s- Tories repare the damage."
______________________________________________________________________
Here is my alternative view, a little less biased and pointless.

Late 70s Labour ruin the country.
80s-early 90s Conservatives continue to ruin the country.
Late 90s Labour does a little to improve the country but not enough to upset southern marginal voters. Too little.
2010 Who knows? whoever gets in will be weak poodles to middle england. As ever.

I tend not to judge politics on what the bookies are saying. As I don't switch allegiances when another side seems to be winning, Like some football fans.

dhwilkinson @28

Your unthinking, misplaced alliance with Labour is just like the the unthinking loyalty football fans put in 'their' club: a form of tribalism that defies logic.

Q: Why support Party X?
A: Because I (or my forefathers before me) always have.

Only an someone thinking with the wrong part of their anatomy could continue to support this government, the Labour Party or its lamentable 'leader'.

" This is Britain, you can live here if you follow these rules... We speak English, You work and you pay taxes (we apologise that these are high at the moment but are working on it). Your children go to the school in your area on a first come first served basis. Schools teach reading, writing and arithmetic. Respect will be taught at home and obeyed everyday. The colour of your skin and your religion is of no concern to us, just respect each other and obey the law. If you break them you will be punished severely. If you act inhumanely, you lose your human rights! When you retire you can have some of the money back that you have paid in, as a pension. Everybody who can work, will work. Cleaning and manual labour are respectable positions. If you need health care, you will receive this out of your NI contributions, If you want to go private, you don't need to pay NI, but you must have one or the other! When you die, your family can inherit everything you've worked so hard for. Please enjoy your life in Britain!"

The manifesto for the common man!
And note that not one of these breaches any EU legislation, any Human Rights laws, or indeed anything foisted upon us externally

Popluar support? 60-80%
Chance of success? 0%
Why? It doesn't allow any wiggle room, for lawyers to get their cut. It doesn't say HOW these things will happne - so no lawyers needed to draft it. Everyone can understand it - so now lawyers needed to 'interpret' it for us

ScepticMax@29

Please calm down and look again at my message. You are doing your blood pressure no good at all.

I don't have an allegience with the labour party. I see it as a lesser of two evils and would like to see a stronger 3rd party maybe the lib dems could get there act together, to end this cycle of labour/conservative politics. If you look closely at this message I am suggesting this is bad for this country.

The Conservatives will be no different. You will still have to pay road and fuel tax, there will still be speed cameras but perhaps they will be a little nastier and start underspending to fund tax cuts for election purposes again. Underspending in the past has led to the need to spend more than if things were funded properly. But labour is there to take the flak for that.

Whats wrong with someone sticking to their local team? Instead of trying to give the impression of being a winner by switching to whichever teams is doing better at the moment. You might remember that Fast show character who did that. Is that what you are suggesting I use to decide who to vote for.

#28 dhwilkinson

I tend not to judge politics on what the bookies are saying. As I don't switch allegiances when another side seems to be winning, Like some football fans.
-------------------
If I remember correctly, in an earlier blog you have stated that NuLabour are your second preference and that you lean towards the LibDems - the no chance of winning party.

It does appear that you are a football fan when it comes to politics.

Although NuLabour will not be the winners in 2010!

I hope Brown gets the drubbing he deserves in the history books when he's gone.

To my mind, Blair will be remembered for going to war based on a lie, and Brown will be remembered for killing the economy almost to the point of it being unable to repair.

Labour generally during this 1997-2010 period will be remembered for destroying the economy, our freedoms, and constantly lying about everything they do.

I think schoolchildren in the future will be asking their teachers "how come a group of people who where so obviously negligent beyond belief from day 1 of their coming to power in 1997, managed to stay in power until 2010? Why didn't people vote them out when they saw all their money going down the toilet and saw that they were constantly being lied to?"

Labour voters from the 2nd/3rd term elections have a lot to answer for; most people after 1997 could see all this coming a mile off; blinkers abound I guess.

Ever since 1997 when it was obvious Brown/Labour were intent on massive overspend with no effective management and a "punish success and reward failure" mentality, they should never have been re-elected.

Shame on all you voters who voted for someone knowing full well that they were destroying your country.

Thanks chrisboote!
That's exactly how I wanted people to read it. A common sense plan for the common people! Let's see how many other areas of law we could put into layman's terms. Such as... "If someobody breaks into your house, you have the right to defend your family and property. If you break into somebody's house, you lose all rights!"
Any more please?

33#Getridrant

This is my view of life;

I have a house to live in (still payin for it but thats life)

I'm reasonably healthy cos of the NHS and good public health. When I'm poorly I see a Dr free as do my kids.

My life expectancy is higher than previous generations (usually equated to prosperity) my kids (depending on lifestyle will get even more years)

Like 90% plus of people of workable age I have a job

if I lost it I would be supported financially by the state till I got another job.

My 79 year old mum lives comfortably on her state pension gets free transport and unbelievable health and social care support.

My kids go to modern well equiped well resourced schools.

The EU has no negative impact on my personal well being what so ever.

If I commit a crime (if society is lucky) I may be seen on cctv. GOOD.

If I I decide to plan an attrocity, hopefully someone will have found out beforehand whatever it takes to protect the innocent!

You talk about "destruction" of our country, It seems to me that some people are just put on the planet to constantly moan and whinge.

By things you had no control over you were born in the UK, it could have been Bosnia, Rhawanda, Zimbabwe.

Keep a sense of proportion Eh?

That's it, Nick

Keep trying to support Brown the Bottler.

I think that your messages in support of Brown the Bottler are becoming more irrelevant to the watching and listening public. Horse, dead and flogging come to mind.

The Conservatives would like nothing better than for Bottler to still be there in 2010, but judging by the mood in the party following the Henley result, he is unfortunately soon to be their ex-leader. That would be a shame.

solomonbrown@2

"I suggest Gordon Brown and the Labour Party, read " HAVE YOUR SAY, " about Browns first year in Office...."

sorry I've only just stopped laughing. Are you seriously suggesting that "Have Your Say" is an accurate unbiased source of information and a measure of public opinion? You can't be this has to be a joke. The top is always dominated by Conservatives with a load of memberships with silly names recommending each other several times for a start. All "have your say sites" are dominated by the right wing. @2 is a joke isn't it. got to be.

re 35 Eatonrifle:

yes; indeed keeping a sense of proportion is a good idea.

But the "well, we didn't murder your family or give you 10 lashes so we must be ok" argument doesn't hold much water with me.

My attitude is that when a group of people such as Labour have self-evidently made the country a much poorer place by their total negligence, then we need to point the finger at them and chastise them for it rather than saying "well, it could be worse; we could all be killed".

We should all aspire to be better than we are, rather than just fester away into nothingness.

Mind you, that's something which labour/brown will never understand. They've never understood the idea that people should try to better themselves, and therein is the crux of why labour always fail; they're happy to be associated with massive dismal failure.

It's about time someone fresh came in and said "no; we don't need to accept massive dismal failure; we can do better; we should do better; we must do better".

Eatonrifle - yours is a much-needed voice of sanity in this deluge of overreaction and opportunistic whingeing.

Thank you!

To redress the balance of your colleagues comments (all virtually damning DC's policies), can I suggest that the same band of poltical heavyweights gives us their views on the policies of GB and his band of cronies? Are do they not have any policy bar legislate this countries freedom to within an inch of its life?

38# Getrid

What exactly is it that's missing in your life that you think you're entitled too, that the government has taken from you?

I don't recognise the desolation and destruction in the UK that seems to be your vision.

I think it's great to vent out our frustrations about the current government affairs. But don't think things will ever change if WE don't take action and let them know we mean business, and by this I mean pacifically make a stand and protest.

People in cities around the UK could stand outside of office buildings/ houses at the same time around the country for like 10 mins every day or more, to let the government know we want an election and we want REAL change. Maybe it's time we actually vote for the leader directly rather than for a party.

Maybe it's time we started using the technology we have in hand like facebook and these blogs to start organising ourselves and show politicians that we will not take it in the chin anymore.

We need to stop talking and start acting!!!

dhwilkinson @31,

I've never watch the Fast Show so the reference is lost on me.

I'm suggesting that you vote for whichever party best reflects your world-view and aspirations at the time of any given election.

If everyone 'stayed loyal' to 'their' party, floating voters would be non-existent and elections, consequently, pointless.

Having said that, real socialists are in a quandary as they only have the useless and ineffective Lib Dems to (possibly) rally to. (But, then I must admit I'm not too worried about that, as real socialism is a pathological condition anyway)

" It is not that Gordon Brown, or indeed any politician, could have averted the economic crisis. "
Disagree with that. If they han't been spending so much during the good times they inherited, things may not be so bad now. We are in a mess labour created. Tax the workers to pay the shirkers.

This crowd have no mandate to govern in England and as such should call an election. They are a minority government, held in place by mps from Scotland a majority of 66. Labour set up the seperate parliament north of the border, it's their baby. Now there should be a parliament do deal with English matters only.

roll_on_2010@32

That is correct! well remembered what an excellent memory you have. The thing is, politics should be a judgement on how a chosen party will affect you. Sticking solidly to one party solidly, like a true football fan is not the definition of democracy. sometimes you have to make a compromise Especially in our voting system.
Is this yet another NuLabourNoHope_2 name I wonder. He was quite well researched on me and I believe this comment that you remembered was made to him. I believe he was a former labour supporter so he can't be the same one I googled and found blogging the Telegraph.

re: 41 Eatonrifle

I think 42 little_venice put it very well; in that it's a free country (or at least it's supposed to be despite what Brown's trying to do) and that it's right/good that people vent their spleens at the politicians when people think the politicians are doing a bad job; that's what freedom and democracy is all about.

As for "what's missing in my life" etc, I'm one of those people who think that people who are able to, have a duty to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves when they think that they're being taken for a ride or having their freedoms/rights destroyed by a government.

Personally Brown/Labour have almost bankrupted me by their massive regressive tax increases and pension thefts since they got into power.

On a more altruistic level the fact that they want to pass laws to lock people up for 42 days purely because they look a bit foreign I think means that those of us who can, should stand up to the bullies and say "no".

Personally Brown/Labour have really hurt me financially and I'm now working a mad amount of hours just to keep my head above water because of them.

But the problem's bigger than that; they've destroyed the economy generally and our freedoms (right to jury eliminated, right to independent coroner eliminated, right to silence eliminated, now the basic right to being free is being eliminated)

And now, to top it all, despite wanting to lock up people who look foreign for 42 days without charge, they've got the converse twisted view that discrimination is a good idea as long as it's anti-white/anti-male discrimination then they actively want to promote it. It's so sickeningly twisted all round that they no longer should be in power; it's gone to their heads; they're incompetent and twisted.

Desperate Nick, desperate....

dhwilkinson@28

Firstly if you look at the economy in 79 and 97 you will see that the Tories had turned the country around transforming it from the 'sick man of Europe'. How can you say the Tories continued to ruin it??

Secondly my reference to the bookies calling it right is that they are not bias like left-wing pundits e,g Nick Robinson, Andrew Marr etc. They predicted a Boris victory and a large Tory majority in Crewe. The BBC/Channel 4 was stating too close to call. I have supported the same football team all my life and the same political party by the way.
Coming from a working class background I give one person credit for lifting me out of my humble beginnings- Maggie Thatcher! It is the biggest myth in politics that the Labour/Lib Dems represent the aspirations of people like me!

48@leaveEUnow

It continued to destroy industrial relations due to the dogmatic battle with the Unions. eventually destroying industry. Its a service economy now. we all serve each other.

It sold of public assets for peanuts, underspending on public infrastructure to fund tax cuts for the rich, borrowing to fund tax cuts for the rich, and sold of public infrastructure to fund tax cuts for the rich and perpetuated the myth that all this would lead to a trickle down effect.

I'm from the North that is why I'm being such a "moaning minnie". We hate Conservatives up here in the far north.

the only reason the unpopular Conservative party was in power for so long was the even worse loony left labour party. It took a long time for this country to trust them again.

Margaret Thatcher was pro European by the way. 'leaveEUnow'.

I see you are another one of these strange people who think the BBC is left wing bias. probably only in comparison to your Newspaper!

48@leaveEUnow

It continued to destroy industrial relations due to the dogmatic battle with the Unions. eventually destroying industry. Its a service economy now. we all serve each other.

It sold of public assets for peanuts, underspending on public infrastructure to fund tax cuts for the rich, borrowing to fund tax cuts for the rich, and sold of public infrastructure to fund tax cuts for the rich and perpetuated the myth that all this would lead to a trickle down effect.

I'm from the North that is why I'm being such a "moaning minnie". We hate Conservatives up here in the far north.

the only reason the unpopular Conservative party was in power for so long was the even worse loony left labour party. It took a long time for this country to trust them again.

Margaret Thatcher didn't want to pull out of Europe at that time. She signed up to the single European act. but the loony left Labour party did want out at that time 'leaveEUnow'.

I see you are another one of these strange people who think the BBC is left wing bias. probably only in comparison to your Newspaper!

#45 dhwilkinson

Yep I do have a very good if not excellent memory and I also love reading. But in this instance I obtained the facts by other means. For your benefit I have included the following.

BBC Bloggers crash course for Dummies;

Using your mouse left click the name banner at the, top right, head of the blog. Bingo you have a full history of that bloggers rants!

How easy can that be, even for you!

What does appear interesting is a previous rant of yours;

“Nulabournohope are you stalking anyone else on this blog site?”

You are accusing one person of stalking you. Bit rich really when by your own admission you are the one doing the stalking!

In answer to your question, yes I do blog on a number of blogs including some media ones. I also blog on some NuLabour sites. Well after all somebody has to keep the NuLabour foot soldiers morale up….ha ha ha.

#48: "I give one person credit for lifting me out of my humble beginnings- Maggie Thatcher!"

im genuinely interested in this attitude. can you help me to understand, what exactly did she do to help you? the traditional view being that lack of investment in education, "sink schools", largest closure of grammars than any other education secretary etc etc, tended to hinder rather than facilitate social mobility. that is of course, ignoring the doubling of relative poverty in this country, the lowest wages in europe, and disproportionate burden of taxes on the poor that occured under her fine stewardship

Roll_on_2010@51


If you aren't NuLabourNoHope I did not ask you if you blogged in the telegraph by the way. I wondered if NuLabourNoHope did. and I said It might have been someone else using that name.

I know about that button thanks but it would still take a long time to search through all of my posts to find the comments you come up with. Unless you new first hand what you were looking for.

NLNH had the habit of searching way back into my posts and took the effort to connect me to my Have your Say comments. Hence the jokey 'stalking' comment. In retaliation I googled his name and came up with a telegraph blog contributed by a former labour voter. No effort at all. Couldn't read it though.

NuLabourNoHope is now U11985799 for some reason. I used the button like you suggested. what are these UXXXXXXX numbers about?


Roll_on_2010@51 wrote "?Nulabournohope are you stalking anyone else on this blog site??" quote Mikepko@120 burnhams big splash 10th June 2008 nearly 3 weeks ago.

Roll_on2010@32 wrote.
"If I remember correctly, in an earlier blog you have stated that NuLabour are your second preference and that you lean towards the LibDems - the no chance of winning party." The last time I said that was 22nd may to NuLabourNoHope.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I don't know if I mentioned this but thanks for the technical advice Roll_2010@51 Just looked at the source code of this webe. These names like as U11985799 are the members User Number Cant think what thats about.

55:
I was given a temporary number like this because my previous username was parkavenue301, the address of The Waldorf Astoria, Addresses apparently are not allowed on these blogs.

46# Getridof

When I see posts like this I don't know whether tl laugh or cry. The scale of exageration is certainly funny.

"they want to lock up people for 42 days for looking a bit foreign"

A fellow employee in my org was killed on 7/7 in London, I think the perpetrators of such events are possibly who is intended by such measures no matter what they "look like".

As for your near bankruptcy is there any possibility at all that you yourself could in part be responsible for your own situation rather than just the Government.

I thought the Tories and people that share similar anti government views to yourself advocate personal responsibility?

You see several post on here saying the Government or "Bottler Brown" put me in debt! Really? Not yourself then?

57. Eatonrifle and 46. getridofgordonnow

Interesting article...

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/daviddavis.civilliberties

35/57 I've been browsing through three blogs this morning and your two posts , above are the most sensible that I've read not only today but for the last week or so.
Well done lad.

Now we have heard that Wendy Alexander has stood down.

Gordon Brown calls the Zimbabwe regime 'illegitimate', I wonder if he would dare to put down in black and white, on this site, exactly how his government has any legitimacy? Exactly who voted for GB as PM. I know of no-one!

36 E Welshman, I hope your not, Welsh that is, Welsh people have been the butt of jokes in films and on TV for years,but let me tell you that your comments do nothing to aleviate that, your constant comment about bottler brown are becoming almost manic for goodness sake man try to post some thing that would indicate that you have some modicum of common sense, please dont even attempt to brand me as racist as I am a very proud to be true Welshman and love and respect most things welsh except perhaps the Welsh Assembly.

60 T A Griffin then you are pretty ignorant
I voted for the Labour party and their in power they voted for Gordon Brown to be their leader thus making him the Prime Minister in britain and no matter how much you squall and try to stir up hate that does'nt alter the fact, the labour party voted for GB, you silly man, and GB is the lawful Prime Minister of this country.

59# Thankyou very much GA

58# Thanks for the link had actually read it.

Sorry but can't eulogise about Davis in the same way. I understand he voted for the increase to 28 days and supports a return to hanging which seems to suggest his views on "civil liberties" (which frankly can mean almost anything depending on ones individual views and life experince) are less than pure.

I'm sure you're not naive enough to think he would have done this if he could have lost.

As for the article, I stand by what I said earlier at 35/57 I've not witnessed this "destruction" of society, the economy or my freedoms the way others claim. Perhaps it's me that's naive or blind or both. If its happened to you I'd be interested to hear without prying to deeply.

Roll_on_2010@51

No need to loose your temper. Its just that this person often appears out of the the blue for no good reason and confronts me on a post I made 2 or 3 weeks ago. Like you have twice. I haven't seen that persons name for a while and wondered if it was you.

I didn't ask Roll_on_2010 if he visited the telegraph blog. So I'm not sure why you answered that question but I don't care.

I tried to get our going nowhere fast conversation removed back to your initial comment as this will look boring. But they refused.

63. Eatonrifle

Id watch that GA... hes a bit of a communist…

I agree with your points. The interest was how the pubic are sleep walking into this and how It has escalated and will continue to escalate. I didn’t know DD supported hanging though.

Its all fine here for me thanks but Im a model of conformity apart from that speed camera last year.

I wonder how the canoeist in todays paper felt, when he was caught paddling without paying his £3.00 fee, was arrested and had his DNA taken.

Not to mention the Head teacher who was found to have an expired fishing licence, now has a criminal record and has waited for over a year to hear if his local authority can keep him in post.

If nothing else its a waste of resources, plus one very worried head with 30 yrs of experience with his mind not fully on the job.

Don’t you really have any worries about where this going or are you just happy to trust the politicians to get it right and trust them to stop when it goes a bit too far.

The questions on the street

Tell me why is it opinions differ throughout all mankind?
Why is a general consensus never quite clearly defined?
Why do we need to have borders to mark nationalities land?
If such things are important, why is immigration not banned?

Why do our politicians tell us each night on the news,
that Britain is most democratic whilst simply ignoring our views?
Why does our Great British nation, known as a sovereign state
have it’s laws overruled by Strasbourg without any public debate?

Why do we put up with do-gooders preaching to us of PC?
English is our national language and Britain’s supposed to be free
Why should we really consider the ethnic minority view?
Where they or their forefathers come from I doubt they’d take notice of you

Why should we tolerate travellers camping wherever they like?
If they camped in Buckingham palace they’d soon be told "Get on your bike"
Why is it that all our judges pass judgements that we feel are lax?
Giving less of a sentence to villains than for failing to pay the poll tax

What is all this "human rights" nonsense?, it’s a load of old self righteous tripe
Law breakers locked up in prison and naughty kids given a swipe
Who are these jumped up musicians? these self righteous millionaires
Begging for our cash for Africa, why don’t they give ALL of theirs?

It’s not fascist or racist or right wing to ask questions like those in this rhyme
but if we don’t come up with some answers such things will develop in time
We will run out of our toleration, no longer be prissy and trite
And ignore EEU indignation to "Pull the ladder up Jack ,I’m all right!!!".

I watched the bbc's 'analysis' of Cameron's chances of being PM, in which you contributes, and I have to say I have never seen such sneering bias before. It was a disgrace from a public broadcaster which is apparently meant to be neutral. The bbc needs to realise that most of Britain hates the way it is angled towards a now totally discredited Labour government, and if the BBC continues to prop it up, the bbc itself will lose out!

#67 enjoyicecoldcesc. Thats funny how people see the same thing but arrive at a totaly different conclusion. You think this analysis was biased against the Tories. Thats strange be- cause I see it the other way. It is biased towards Dave and all his old school chums. I think you'll find I am right considering Nick's own personal political leanings. Didn't you know he was the president of The Young Conservitives whilst he was at university?

I am sorry grandantidote #62 but labour did not vote for Gordon Brown. It is just that nobody stood against him.

I wish that people would stop trying to rewrite history. Mind you that is why I regard Gordon as a Stalinist, he and those who continue to support him, really would like to rewrite recent history. Just like good old Uncle Joe, should we be calling Gordon, Uncle Gordon, because with the economic turmoil he wants to be looked on as a kindly Uncle who will see us through all the turmoil.

As for me being silly, well ouch that really hurt. Is this really the level of discussion now taking place in our society. Well yes I suppose it is!

As for stirring up hate! Well can I help it that Gordon Brown continues to support the occupation of Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. All the deaths are totally in vain because we all know that the retreat in Basra is almost complete, and as for Afghanistan! Any ideas as to why yet another soldier has died for this 'noble' cause.

69T A Griffin. First just to clear things up,The reason I called you silly was because had I have called you what I would like to call you then the moderaters would have removed the post,I had thought that you might have had the nous to figure that out but it seems not.
Gordon Brown applied in the usual way to become the leader of the labour party, nobody opposed his application so he was elected unopposed to that position, being the leader of the party in power that made him the Prime Minister.I am not going to reply to your extremely absurd remarks about Stalin, your remarks are too childish to warrant a reply from an adult, try the Beano. Your remarks regarding Iraq I have mentioned before, you continuously attempt to embarress our troops by saying that they are retreating.

enjoyicecold...@67

Can you explain some of the reasons why this article is biased IN YOUR VIEW?

These suggestions of Bias just because they disagree with a Conservatives point of view are quite annoying. I wish these people would stop trying to impose their opinions on the BBC and therefore the public.

I thought this site was about showering David Cameron with praise the virtues of David Cameron? That must be why it is so quiet.

It must be difficult for Cameron to attract liberals while at the same time reassure hard core Conservatives that all this Liberal stuff is cleverly worded garbage.

re 57 eatonrifle:

ask menezes' parents what they think about how the state treats people who look a bit foreign.

shot 5 times in the head purely because they thought he looked like a terrorist; despite getting the wrong man nobody ended up in trouble over it; that tells you all you need to know about how the state will use the 42 day law.

And no, I didn't put myself in debt; Brown increased regressive taxes to such a massive degree that anyone who used to make a fair amount of money for a fair day's work is now living right on the line. Unless, of course, you're entitled to tax credits, which a lot of people aren't.

Besides, I don't think it's right that the state should take away everything you have and then get you to fill in reams of paperwork and a potential forced-payback risk later on to beg for some of it back via tax credits.

I'm assuming you're not self-employed; ask someone who is and they'll tell you some pretty bad horror stories about what Brown's done over the years.

#To 72 getridof gordonnow

I'm rather tired of hearing about Menezes, This unfortunate incident has been milked for all its worth by those with a political agenda and lawyers out to make their usual buck(s). Menezes was first and foremost in the UK illegally. He lied, stating he was a student, and was breaking the law. He was killed at a time when the whole safety of the UK was in peril. His family naturally mourn him, but let us not forget they come from a country where homeless, unwanted children sleep out on the streets, and when they become too much of a 'nuisance' the police calmly shoot them and shovel their bodies away. It's a pity the human rights groups, and all the bleeding hearts brigades cannot spare a thought for these poor Brazilian children. Not enough political worth?

73. mightyangela

Agree with you about Brazil but we have to be better than that.

I dont actually think we should ever forget about that case, regardless of the lawyers etc. they are a just a side issue and he could just as easily have been British.

It stands as a stark reminder of what happens when frenzied panic strikes the security services.

Re:#74

Dear RusellHolmstoel,

Without being trite, because I agree with you about the dangers of frenzied panic, it seems that the motto of this government is "When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."

#73, MightyAngela,

"Menezes was first and foremost in the UK illegally. He lied, stating he was a student, and was breaking the law. He was killed at a time when the whole safety of the UK was in peril."

Surely his murder was not justified? Why could the Labour Government not find him a job, as they did with so many others in the same situation? I'm sure Ms Harman would consider it every decent [sic] employers duty, nee obligation!

On topic, but generally aimed at GB supporters in this, and other blogs hosted by Nick:

It's this attitude [42-days, ID-cards, detention-without-charge, I'm alright Jack; pay your taxes for my sprats, etc.] to English values that sickens many voters. We may not like DC, but we despise all the Scot/Northern whiners at Westminster! Sympathy for our Caledonian cousins: they'll have to take their MPs back...!

72# getrid

Firstly Menezes, (I'll try to answer this sensibly as did Russell and Angela unlike fluffy thoghts). This was first and foremost a tragedy and its a shame it becomes even remotely "political" when it was about "operational" errors.

I just don't make the connection between that incident and the 42 day issue particularly as the 42 day power wasn't in then and remains unused. If the Police powers at the time were on;y 2 days pre charge detention it would have made no difference and I guess you know that really.

As for your finances and earnings. So its all the nasty government is it?

You refer to Brown's "Regressive" taxes on your daily earnings makes me think you don't know what a regressive tax is!!

If a tax is on your earnings and goes up as your earnings increase this is a "Progressive" tax base on ffordabillity to pay!

Regressive taxes are those such as VAT which take no account of your earnings and everyone pays the same.

And sorry IMO everyone has some personal responsibillity (other than you by the sound of things) for their own finances.

I know loads of self employed who enjoy many tax write offs that someone on PAYE could never get.

65 Russel

Belated reply,

On the civil Liberties issues, the most cited things seem to be;

42 days
cctv,
ID Cards
DNA Databases and others
speed cameras etc.

On 42 days I think the arguement was won with the safeguards in place. If after a 7/7 type incident the Plice needed 6 weeks with all the checks in place to me its a No Brainer. Thats not to say there could not be a miscarriage of justice but its not a perfect world.

CCTV watching me walk down the street musy be about as boring as it gets. However if omeone started to knock the living day lights out of me I'd hope it was seen on cctv. Wouldn't You?

ID cards. Less certain about this in terms of Costs/benfits but am very used to having to produce ID or confirmation as to who I am in many walks of life, personal and professional. In todays age that's unlikely to change, I think those who shout loudest about this do so as "opposition" to anything goverrnment rather tha on CL grounds.

DNA etc Just seems like 21 century version of fingerprinting to me plus possible medical benefits.

Speed Cameras. Been caught once. It wasn't the camera's fault it was mine! Have you seen the TV ad "Its 30 for a reason" says it all for me.

All opinions of course, like you just an ordinary conformist Joe who hasn't exprienced the "destruction" of our economy or society as some have.

re 77 Eatonrifle

"You refer to Brown's "Regressive" taxes on your daily earnings"

no I didn't; I referred to his regressive taxes generally effecting people like me who aren't on high incomes; I did economics at school and I know that regressive taxes do not usually apply to income but rather expenditure (but there are some exceptions)

However, having said that, doubling the lowest tax rate from 10pct to 20pct was regressive because it does hit the lower paid relatively harder than the higher paid.

Council tax is massively regressive, as are things like the TV license, road tax, and excise duty on fuel etc.

The parallel I was drawing with Menezes was that they used the anti-terror legislation to murder a man in cold blood, yes it was a "mistake", but they got clean away with it and nobody in government batted an eyelid about its implications.

When a case like that gets completely brushed under the carpet by the government/police, then the 42 day legislation needs to be considered in that light, in that mistakes do happen, so locking someone up for 42 days without even having enough evidence to charge them is something that simply should not happen; there's no valid reason for it when you consider the alternative ways of processing someone who the police think is a terrorist.

79# Getrid

Sorry if I misinterpretd but the refernce to your earnings led me down that path.

Everyone has points of reference from their past on tax/prices/incomes etc.

I can remember some real shockers like the jumps in VAT 8 and 12.5% to an ven 15% in 79/80 the to 17.5% to cushion the bail out from the Poll Tax. Basic Income tax at 35% etc. I can't think of anything as radical as that recently. The tax total tax take in modern times (say the last 30 years) varies very slightly if you check and there are many in Europe who pay more.

As for the 42 day issue again do you not feel that the government whoever they are should respond to the new terrorist threat?

They could decide to do nothing (quite legitimately IMO) on the basis of the "we wont change our way of life arguement) OR they could decide changes are needed. This government decided the latter BUT there will always be miscarriages of justice as there have always been.

When you find a perfect world, let me know cos I want to live there too.

re 80 Eatonrifle wrote

"As for the 42 day issue again do you not feel that the government whoever they are should respond to the new terrorist threat?"

yes; they should respond to it, but in a measured/reasonable/logical way.

I think the 42 day issue was a distraction done for political reasons, and that they made a point of ignoring the other issues to push that 42 day law through.

Personally I think they should have addressed the "but why aren't we able to charge someone sooner?" problem.

They've addressed the symptom of their problems but not the root cause.

The root cause of why they can't charge someone has nothing to do with "complexities" such as encrypted files, but rather because of restrictions such as the type of evidence that's allowed for charging to take place.

For example, if the only evidence against a suspected terrorist is an encrypted file which the police can't open, then how/why did the police suspect that person in the first place ? Surely they must have some other evidence which led them to that person? If so, then why can't they use that evidence for a charge? If not then why/how did the person get arrested in the first place if there was no grounds for it?

I think that 42 days internment of innocent people is too high a price to pay for "security", I think it steps over the line/balance between protecting the general population from harm and protecting the individual from being locked up for no reason. They could have got around the problems that they had in other/safer/better ways.

Less interfearing in peoples lives but according to the Cameron Direct Am. Dram. video. Teaching parents how to look after their children and how to teach them respect. Less nanny state, more supernanny state.

also in that video volunteering is mentioned and the cost of unemployment cameron is very keen on the environment and wants to cut costs so heres what I think will happen.

The Conservatives policy of cutting services and infrastructure down to unsustainable levels to fund tax cuts will make people unemployed. These people will be demonised and forced to work a slave wage(for their benefits) on green projects. Camerons conservatives will take the credit. for having green credentials and saving taxpayers money. Until the services start to go wrong again. and then its back to labour who will have to spend huge amounts to put it right.

Who will then get into trouble for "Not saving up for a rainy day." from some hip young 20 year old Conservative in his trendy cardigan and big hair.

The problem of Iraq will not go away. Now we are being told, at last, about the agreements between the Iraqi government and the oil companies. Why did we go into Iraq, never ever was about oil of course.

It was to get rid of weapons of mass destruction!

Now when is Gordon going to tell us about what has been negotiated with the DUP to get them to vote with the government on 42 days. Can't wait!

Contrary to the old adage "After the Lord Mayor's Show comes the dustcart," I will reverse the order, "After the dust cart comes the Lord Mayor's Show". In the end it's all dross and show!