What next for Egypt?

Were we concerned about the "Orange Revolution" protests in Ukraine?

No, and we needn't be concerned about the protests here. The people are speaking and it's for their rulers to listen. I DO think, though, that without the police or the army on their side this "revolution" is doomed to failure.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Government officials should participate in the protests as well..protesters represent the whole nation whereas government only represents itself in this situation..

we need to be a bit more pro-active in britain if we dont want to be led by tyrants too !

What next?
Democracy for Egypt one would hope.
Though I do worry about 'western' intervention should it look like the Egyptian people might choose the wrong type of democracy.

The only area of concern is as with other civil disturbances around the world, we end up with tens of thousands at our door claiming political asylum and shelter which of course we offer with open arms and wallet.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The political "leaders" in the UK should take very serious note of the events in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen. Unless things change, for the better, the the same fate awaits the UK.
These events in the Middle East and North Africa could be just the same events that the oppressed people of the UK need to stir them out of complacency.

I have to laugh at the position of the United States on the crisis. How many Presidents have come and gone since President Hosni Mubarak has been in power. What democratic reforms have been introduced in that period within Eygpt. What have the Americans or Europeans for that matter done to remedy the injustices of a corrupt regime in Eygpt before last Tuesday. The Americans did not give tuppence for ordinary Eygptians and are now creaming themselves in case a regime change in Eygpt becomes anti Isreal and anti American. That possibility does not fill me with much comfort either, but after the effects of a violent regime change in Iraq insitgated by the US and Britain, I would be interested to hear what the ordinary Eygptian might have to say to the Americans today. We may be about to start reaping what we have sown over the last 50 years of appeasement in the Middle East. Iran, Lybya, Iraq Tunisia and now Eygpt, endemic corruption at the highest offices of state, do our Governments have any perception of Arab culture? If they do, they are ignoring the overall situation and interfering only when the commercial interests of the West are perceived to be at risk or the Jewish lobby in Washington growl. If we had any moral credence we might be able to mediate, but foer goodness sake we put Blair in as a Middle East peace envoy, do I need to say more?

Hosni Mubarak is an important mediator in US-Arab relations and has successfully kept Islamic extremism in check. If he were to step down there could be a power vacuum exploited by something worse than the current dictatorship. So yes I am concerned.

However the people of Egypt deserve freedom so the best solution would be if Mubarak announced immediate elections in which he would not participate.

I find the hypocrisy of the west in general and the usa in particular breath taking!
When it suits their needs one hears of "freedom, democracy and free elections" as being the TOP priority of u.s foreign policy..... But if a free country with an elected government may do things that are "inconvenient" or "damaging to u.s business" then it's perfectly OK for a corrupt dictator to hold the reigns of power and a blind eye will be turned to it.
Did I expect any better of them? No....

People are fighting a corrupt, ineffective and undemocratic regime because they want a better future. We should be applauding the Egyptians and pressuring the Mubarak to get out.

I only hope there is not too much bloodshed.

No we shouldn't and allow the due process to take place, regardless of whether the regime is pro or against western interest, that is the only way the true feelings and wishes of the people concerned will materiasle into a true form of democracy

What are your thoughts on the events in Egypt? Should President Mubarak resign? Is the international community doing enough to resolve the crisis? Are you in the region?

The events are the reaction of a nation that has had enough. There have been Orange, Green, Jasmine and other revolutions by peaceful means and I hope that this becomes the way of regime change in the future and not the recent abortions in Iraq and Iran.

Mubarak is already gone in the hearts of the protesters and so in reality should leave with some grace and not run with the loot as happened in Tunisia.

The international community need to send food and water and that is it, aid yes, arms no! Supporting Mubarak is turning the gun on yourselves and pulling the trigger, all trust will be gone and on the international stage and as we have seen on comments before, the people have long memories.

I fear for the people - they might find they are hijacked by something even worse than the current tyrant.

As for Posting 4, dwangeddy, after the excesses of Slave Labour, we in Britain have already suffered under a tyranny. (A coalition with a higher percentage of voters behind it than Slave Labour ever had is nothing compared to what has gone before!)

For those involved in the protests and demonstrations the first stage would seem to be the resignation of Mubarak, and anything less is likely to lead to much more conflict. But we have seen this before and it is normally a case of who can tough it out the longest. I hope the protesters are not just tough but organised, determined and persuasive.

The world's just busting for a war, this could be a flash point. It makes me laugh when lip flapper and his government cronies dish out advice to Egypt about democracy. We in Britain live in a phoney democracey, we are promised referendums on the EU but never get one, we don't really have freedom of speech, say the wrong thing about race or religion and you could be prosecuted or moderated. Someone else gets the nation into debt and Joe ordinary pays the price without any consultaion with us. We get fleeced by the privatised utility companies and have no redress, I could go on but I think you get the picture. I wish the ordinary Joe Egyptians well in their quest for a democratic government but suspect they'll end up with a phoney one like ours. What I would say to the Egyptians is, keep it peaceful, no prizes for violence, human beings should have evolved enough to solve things without the use of violence.

We should study these events carefully, since that way we may learn how to topple a government.

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Of course Mubarak shouldn't resign, he should be arrested by the people and forced to stand trial for allowing torture and extra judicial killings to take place in his country under his watch, then he should be thrown in prison for the rest of his life and all monies and property stolen by him and his family over the years should be returned to the people.
Then the people of this country should learn the lesson of people power and rise up against our corrupt system and form a parliament of the people for the people. How many cabinet ministers are millionaires? 75%. How many members of parliament are publicly educated? 60%. What is the percentage of people in the UK with a public school education? 6%. WE don't live in a democracy, it is a cronyist plutocracy with a theater company for a government. WE NEED CHANGE!

My only concern as far as Egypt is concerned is that they don't end up with an Iranian styled regime that is going to make the lives of the Coptic Christians any worse, they are the truly oppressed people of Egypt!

Only a change of the Arab world social and cultural structure will be the long run solution.
Inherent problems of the Arab world:
–Stagnated society
-High percentage population increase
-Increased pressure of limited resources
-No working places
-Dreaming to impose Islam worldwide by force
-All the ME regimes and religious leaders brain washed peoples mind against external imaginary enemies
-Investing in armies but not in future building
-Increasing prices of basic food.
-Inability to compete in the modern world.
-------
What political system can solve the problems?
Lessen to ME people and political declarations it is obvious that:
No political movement declares to deal with the infrastructure issues;

*Are the Islamist movements such the Muslim Brotherhood or Iran Islamism the answer?
They offer to increase the social stagnation--To be closed to the modern world--To increase the hate against non Muslims--To promote Islamism worldwide war and terror tool.-- Using the democracy system to get power later to ban the real mean of democracy

* Are the Arab people calling for western type of democracy?
The Arab masses want a solution to the unemployment and food problems regardless the regime type.
Only a few are real conserved about the inherent problems.

The western democracy system works in societies that developed for a couple of centuries from absolute monarchies.
This is not the case in the Arab world.
---
The future?
More problems–No solution- More unrests regales the regime type- Unfortunately traditional historical solution were-!!!wars!!!

21. At 1:04pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:

My only concern as far as Egypt is concerned is that they don't end up with an Iranian styled regime that is going to make the lives of the Coptic Christians any worse, they are the truly oppressed people of Egypt!

===========================================

My friend Vivien A... is a Coptic Christian in Egypt and she tells me of the protection offered by local Muslims to her church. In return the Coptics stood by the mosques in Cairo during Friday prayers along with others.

I think the people will fight any fundamentalists as I took these two things to signify the possiblities of the Egyptian people.

if the post saddam power vaccum in iraq is anything to go by then we should be worried, particularly given the role Egypt plays in the middle east. I'm sure the americans will be especially interested in the transition of power that now seems inevitable

Oil price is going up, then it always does when there is trouble in the ME. Egypt has a pipeline and the Suez Canal, so anything which may affect the flow of oil is going to cause problems.
The Egyptian people want a change of regime, recent polls suggest the majority of Egyptians don't want an Islamic state, they want an honest, representative givernment.
If these stale, corrupt, regimes can be replaced by popular governments, then there is a possibility for real change in the ME.
Whether the people will be allowed to change things is another matter.
The Egyptian Army is the key here. The army gets $1.6 billion in arms and surplus equipment from the US. That is dependent on Egypt following US policy in the ME. If Egypt deviates one inch from that policy, the Army won't get a cent in further aid.

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The sooner egypt embraces and copies the islamic revolution of iran the better.If sanctions were removed from iran you would see job growth in iran.A islamic block of nations who are not afraid of the west and not allow the interference of the west will one day rise up in north africa.Iran after fair elections saw mass protests of the public.
There was no removal of the president in iran as people began to under stand the west was causing the riots by propaganda.This is all tipical of cia involvement seen in south america.Tony Blair middle eastern envoy,how sickening this is.He talks to us from israel,how safe and how bias of blair.He should be broadcasting from anywhere but israel.

The Muslim Brotherhood is what is next for Eygpt followed by them helping MB inspired HAMAS get better weapons that will cause all out conflict which will no doubt get pinned on Israel as per usual.

I hope i am wrong but i doubt it.

@18.TruthBot.

We have a process that can remove governments,its called an a election.

I'd quite like the international community to stay out of this one and to allow the people of Egypt to decide their own future.

I have a few friends in Egypt and they have no desire to see El Baradei or the Islamic Brotherhood coming to power as they see the former as a stooge for foreign powers and the later as yet another form of slavery. I have no idea how representative of the general population my friends are as they're mainly from the older generations but the general feeling I got from speaking to some of them recently is that they're more concerned with getting rid of Mubarak and his regime than they are about who will eventually replace him.

I'd therefore say that the most likely outcome of this action is the removal of Mubarak followed by a short period of military rule while democratic elections are arranged, what happens after that is far more difficult to predict. I can only wish the people of Egypt the very best of luck; they’re going to need it.

If what is happening in Egypt becomes contagious, then a major upheaval in the region might well occur. In my view, the countries to watch for signs of unrest are Jordan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and even Syria. In Egypt itself, should the police and army side with the protesters or even just act neutral, then it is curtains for Mubarak.

Baradei is being heavily promoted by the western media, and by the US as an oppposition figure to Mubarak? But how is he opposed to Mubarak? Mubarak was a crony of the US for 30 years. The interests of the US were put infront of the interests of the Egyptian people. Baradei has demonstrated exactly the same, he is an honourary agent of the US, now wishing to to do the US bidding, albeit with a different format to government.

The Egyptian people will not tolerate another crony. The time of the puppet rulers is over.

panchopablo wrote:
We have a process that can remove governments,its called an a election.


Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Social change requires discipline, commitment, & hard work. Do these protesters have the right stuff, or are they just a small percentage of the Egyptian population with too much free time? I suspect Mubarek has the long term view.

Let the Egyptian people sort it out and The West, particularly the Americans, should just keep out of it. You have had 30 years to change this vile regime so stop wringing your hands now and feigning concern.
Listened to Tony Blair interviewed on the 5 LIVE this morning and he confirmed my doubts about his love of democracy. He is an apologist for Western plans and seems to be calling for democracy as long as the Egyptians 'vote for the right people' ie those wanted by the US paymasters. I am in no way trumpeting an islamist regime/government, but surely if they are voted in as the next government the peace process can move forward with everyone finally realising they need to be included.
Mr Blair, your 'perfomance' this morning (although radio we could all see the somber look and the 'disco hands') made me cringe so please leave the region, put your Nobel Peace prize ambitions aside, and go back to making money from after-dinner speeches.

32. At 1:44pm on 31 Jan 2011, General_Jack_Ripper wrote:

panchopablo wrote:
We have a process that can remove governments,its called an a election.


Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

_______________

LOL, wow Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, sounds like infinite paranoia!

If the Muslim Brotherhood gains power in Egypt, no doubt they will immediately describe any opposition to them as "un-Islamic" or a nebulous "Zionist plot". History shows that, in the Muslim world, people appear all-too-gullible and accepting of such excuses.

Then, once the Muslim Brotherhood consolidate their position, presumably they will consider it an obligation to spread their Islamist agenda beyond Egypt's borders.


Should we worry? Yes.

it would appear governments who have tolerated and propped up mubarak for 30yrs and are now calling for "change" could be said to be hunting populist votes rather than they give a damn about egypt and its people.

In as much as it is the actions of Egyptians in Eygpt I am unconcerned. My worry is that outsiders from either the West, the East or even worse Religion will 'guide' the process. Then we will have real problems.

why? is their country and they should make their own decissions for good or bad. the time when the west dictate all how things should be done around the world is well and truly over

the sooner the west and america stops mingling on others peoples business the safer a world it will be but oh but i forgot.. if the USA don't have wars and an enemy then their arms industry will collapse and we can't have that ..right?

8. At 12:48pm on 31 Jan 2011, Bob wrote:

The political "leaders" in the UK should take very serious note of the events in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen. Unless things change, for the better, the the same fate awaits the UK.
These events in the Middle East and North Africa could be just the same events that the oppressed people of the UK need to stir them out of complacency.

-------------------------

I have noticed a couple of comments similar to the above. How people think they can compare the UK and the middle east I have no idea. The two are completely different and I would definately choose the UK to live in (so would people in the middle east as we know).

I laugh when people here say they are oppressed. Especially on a public message board which you can make such statements. News reporters are being beaten in egypt and their equipment confiscated. Arrested by undercover cops and taking physical abuse.

Here we had a load of people burning our flag and protesting against this country and the police didnt stop them. We have regular protests but the gov aint having such people attacked, beaten and tortured.

A totally different world

> Wyn wrote:
> Egypt: Should we be concerned?
> If there's the slightest possibility of a bunch of religious wing nuts
> taking over we should most certainly be be very, very concerned.

Why Wyn? because you were happy to live with western support for a dictator that served your governments interests above and beyond his own people? Does the world revolve around your needs?

Were you concerned that 80 million people were being slapped around for your pleasure for the last 30 years and longer? I guess not. So perhaps your concerns really are pointless, selfish and irrelevant?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

and another thing....those people who are not confortable with the uprising of a religious regime should ask themselves, how did we get here? if the USA and Europe didn't back such extremly right wing regimes maybe people won't be so angry and we won't need to live in fair however, in my view this is all of our own making and is all about american interest and the arms industry who run america and are scared that a diferent regime will no longer buy made in the USA arms

What I am concerned about is seeing Tony Blair on TV a few minutes ago giving us the benefit of his wisdom.
Surely he is the last person to be advising anyone about the Middle East!
If he finds he cannot keep his discredited mouth shut then perhaps he should go to Cairo and address the people face to face and see what their reaction will be and take the other Middle East 'expert', Bush, with him.

I certainly hope the Egyptian nation achieves a decent level of democracy but my worry is just who or what steps up and fills the vacuum. A perfect setting for an Islamic take over methinks. Why is it that no-one sees the danger signs before they hit them in the face.

It shouldn't and wouldn't matter to us if we were more energy self-sufficient, and if we hadn't imported such a large number of people from that part of the world.

As things stand, what happens in Egypt might well have serious ramifications for us. Yet another of the wonderful but utterly predictable side-effects of our open-door immigration policy.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

theilliberal wrote:
LOL, wow Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, sounds like infinite paranoia!


Well I think he would have replied to that with:
A person hears only what they understand.

Or possibly:
Few people have the imagination for reality.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
===================================================================
I'll go along with that one, It's less than a century ago that troops of ours were shot by firing squad for cowardice. Jumped up generals of the time who sat in their cushy quarters miles from the action decided someone with shell shock or just plain scared didn't deserve to live so they had them shot. Soldiers of ours now patrol in IED alley being commanded to do so, and it's not unlike being pushed out of a trench in the first world war. The bravest of the brave dismantle IED's when in their heart and mind they should leave well alone but do it because they don't want to be labelled a coward. None of us are truly free, politicians do a lot of blabbing as to what they will do for us, but never come up with the goods, ever noticed they always do alright. Only time we are free is when we die and even then they steal from your estate and deny you your final rights.

With the Muslim Brotherhood poised to take power I am very concerned about the future of Egypt.

All the best to the people of Egypt. I hope they stay determined and will eventually achieve a complete, democratic regime change against all resistance. This is for the sake of Egypt, but it will also be a very special present to those foreign figures who normally shout for regime change and democracy in other parts of the Middle East. They have gone very quiet this time.

Should we be concerned?

I think we have interfeared quite another in this part of the world. Even before the recent events in the middle east, the west has always stuck its nose in.

Leave them alone to deal with this themselves. As for the religous influence, Egypt has seen what happens to countries that allow religion to become a dictator, they are not stupid.

They clearly need to remove this leader, the fact he won't leave just shows he is only interested in power, not the well being of the country.

This is no one elses business but Egypts, England and the US have enough problems to deal with. Or will this just be another excuse for us to destabilise the middle east to work in our favour. Wouldn't be the first time, would it.

> At 2:39pm on 31 Jan 2011, buzios wrote:

> With the Muslim Brotherhood poised to take power I am very concerned about > the future of Egypt.

And I would be very happy, as would 80 million Egyptians, and billions more Muslims around the world. Its time to rid ourselves of Western backed rulers, with failing western solutions, and return to what fits our culture, our values and our interests.

Msg 42. At 2:14pm on 31 Jan 2011, rajah wrote:

"Why Wyn? because you were happy to live with western support for a dictator that served your governments interests above and beyond his own people? Does the world revolve around your needs?

Were you concerned that 80 million people were being slapped around for your pleasure for the last 30 years and longer? I guess not. So perhaps your concerns really are pointless, selfish and irrelevant?"

Insofar as the government of Egypt (or any other country) is kept secular and non expansionist, I'm not bothered about who they 'support'. It's the religious wing-nuts (of all kinds, just in case you think I'm just getting at Islam,) that need to be supressed - here, Egypt, the USA, wherever. Anywhere in fact where this irrational sky-pixie nonsense rears its head.

What next for the region? CHANGE. That's what the people are fighting and dying for.
What are your thoughts on the events in Egypt? Shame it's become violent with looting and destruction of infrastructures and the nation's treasures. Need not be that way. Just keep coming out in thousands and millions and sit at the Square. Keep calm and demand that the govt steps down and go now where until that happens.
Should President Mubarak resign? Since he is not certified blind or deaf, he is capable of seeing events as they have unfolded on TV as well as listening to the radio or commentaries to know what the people are demanding/want, which is for him to step down.
Is the international community doing enough to resolve the crisis? They really should not get involved directly because they also failed to advice the govt of Mubarak that they allied with to embark on economic and political reforms which could have prevented this situation. They can indirectly advice President Mubarak to arrange for an interim govt and to step down immediately. They should also address ordinary Egyptians directly through social media (Youtube, Al Jazeera, Facebook, Twitter) etc to ensure that their protests are peaceful and there is no need to destroy their infrastructures and treasures since it is their money that a new govt will use to re-build and replace.
Are you in the region? No but a World Citizen that monitors everything that goes on in all corners of the world.

Where is Multi-Millionaire middle east peace envoy Blair in all this? Seems to me the middle east has become a far more fragile place since he took up his post. Mind you quite how a committed Catholic convert can bring about peaceful negotiations in a primarily Muslim environment is beyond me.

The interviews I have seen with "normal people on the streets", are not interested in a Islamist government, they have all said they want "democracy" and that "the muslim brother hood are 1 voice among a thousand voices all wanting a part in a egyptian democracy."

I have also heard about prisons being emptied and inmates being released with arms, is this the "chaos" that Mubarak said would happen if the people did not submit once more to his will.

I can only hope that our government here make it clear that Mubarak must leave and a caretaking government should be put in place till such time that democratic free elections for both parliament and presidency can take place. Western interference beyond aid for the peoples if needed would only serve to fan the fires of extremists who at present are notable if only for their absence.

We should do absolutely nothing, apart for providing non military aid, if and when asked. We must break our habit of poking our noses into other nations affairs. We are no longer a world military power and we have recognised this in our defence cuts. Now we need to recognise it in our diplomacy.

8. At 12:48pm on 31 Jan 2011, Bob wrote:
The political "leaders" in the UK should take very serious note of the events in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen. Unless things change, for the better, the the same fate awaits the UK.
These events in the Middle East and North Africa could be just the same events that the oppressed people of the UK need to stir them out of complacency.
------------------
.....and I think you should take note of the major differences between countries like Egypt and the UK, before making silly comments claiming you are oppressed. I think it's quite offensive to people who are genuinely oppressed to claim "we've got it bad".

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

36. At 1:59pm on 31 Jan 2011, theilliberal wrote:
==================================================
Nobody is stopping you leaving to go and live in any (Free) Country of your choice theilliberal. It beggars belief that people cannot see the irony in being free to air their views in public without being arrested or victimised and have the audacity to indicate they live in an oppressed society.

49. At 2:35pm on 31 Jan 2011, General_Jack_Ripper wrote:

theilliberal wrote:
LOL, wow Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, sounds like infinite paranoia!


Well I think he would have replied to that with:
A person hears only what they understand.

Or possibly:
Few people have the imagination for reality.
_______________


"Few people have the imagination for reality." Do you count yourself among the 'few'? :)

//18. At 1:01pm on 31 Jan 2011, TruthBot wrote:
We should study these events carefully, since that way we may learn how to topple a government.//

It would be an insult to people really suffering tyranny to suggest that we in the UK are really 'suffering' in any real way.

But there is a lesson here for the British Establishment and politicians - that's all the major 2 and a half parties, quangocrats, civil service and local government managers, the utilities, even the likes of the BBC - you are ALL out of touch with a lot of the people who pay your wages. You have ALL making or implementing decisions which many people dislike.

Up till now, people have accepted it because they were doing ok, by and large. But now times are getting harder, and those who are in power, and being paid a lot of taxpayers' money, should look at Egypt and Tunisia.

As the students have already shown, there is a potential for civil unrest here. Think what could happen if the people who've really got a lot to complain about, the white working class, for example, kick off.

28. At 1:29pm on 31 Jan 2011, panchopablo wrote:

The Muslim Brotherhood is what is next for Eygpt followed by them helping MB inspired HAMAS get better weapons that will cause all out conflict which will no doubt get pinned on Israel as per usual.

I hope i am wrong but i doubt it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
@18.TruthBot.

We have a process that can remove governments,its called an a election.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha ha.. And get nothing but another version of the last government in all but name which will continue to put the wishes of the multi national conglomerates and the USA before ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that the British people want.
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" Pete Townsend, "Won't get fooled again"

We should certainly be concerned, but we should not interfere. Egypt should sort out its own problems, because outside intervention almost always makes such situations worse. We may hope for a particular outcome, but we must mind our own business, otherwise we risk making yet more enemies and encouraging a new wave of anti-Western extremism.

One of the more interesting things to emerge are the gamut of ways the Egyptian Government have used to attempt suppression of the people. It's noteworthy because our government would use the same tactics.

TO KEEP PEOPLE AWAY from demonstrations and close to home

Spread false information about prisoners being out and about
Spread false information about looting and robbery
Remove the Police from the scenes

TO FRIGHTEN PEOPLE

Call in the Armed Forces
Use Airforce jets to instil fear

TO STOP COMMUNICATION

Close Facebook & Twitter
Force closure of mobile phone networks
Force closure of internet

AND FINALLY

Kill people using live ammunition


What next for Egypt indeed!

8. At 12:48pm on 31 Jan 2011, Bob wrote:
The political "leaders" in the UK should take very serious note of the events in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen. Unless things change, for the better, the the same fate awaits the UK.

I very much doubt it. In Egypt they are protesting for democracy; in the UK we tend to demonstrate against it.

Obama and Hillary C. "have called for an "orderly transition"




Who cares what any outsider has called for?

Antiquites are being stolen, museums pilfered, stores robbed...


No, it's not a rule of 'democratic forces' or a rule of 'Islamists'.

Its a rule of the mob. Plain and simple.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

We should only be concerned in as much as we run the possibility of losing western influence in the area. Mubarak stifled opposition including firing a newspaper editor, revoking the licences of tv stations and fabricating infractions to disqualify opposition candidates from running and all this with the backing of the west. The future of Egypt lies with the people of Egypt whatever that may be and not with any other nation.

63. At 3:08pm on 31 Jan 2011, coyb1530 wrote:

36. At 1:59pm on 31 Jan 2011, theilliberal wrote:

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

_______________

LOL, wow Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, sounds like infinite paranoia!
==================================================
Nobody is stopping you leaving to go and live in any (Free) Country of your choice theilliberal. It beggars belief that people cannot see the irony in being free to air their views in public without being arrested or victimised and have the audacity to indicate they live in an oppressed society.
____________

What??? Do you just like typing stuff?!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

//69. At 3:15pm on 31 Jan 2011, Magi Tatcher wrote:
8. At 12:48pm on 31 Jan 2011, Bob wrote:
The political "leaders" in the UK should take very serious note of the events in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen. Unless things change, for the better, the the same fate awaits the UK.

I very much doubt it. In Egypt they are protesting for democracy; in the UK we tend to demonstrate against it.//

Interesting. What examples of that are you thinking about?

THEY MIGHT GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT
BUT THEY WILL NEVER GIVE YOU WHAT REALLY NEED

//67. At 3:12pm on 31 Jan 2011, Rabbitkiller wrote:
We should certainly be concerned, but we should not interfere. Egypt should sort out its own problems, because outside intervention almost always makes such situations worse. We may hope for a particular outcome, but we must mind our own business, otherwise we risk making yet more enemies and encouraging a new wave of anti-Western extremism.//

We should just leave them to it. It's for the Egyptians, not us, to decide.

Given the terrible way minorities are treated in Egypt, though - gays and christians, for example - and the frequently complained about generalised harassment of females, I fear the worst. Probably turn out something like Pakistan or Iran, at best.

Still, that's their choice, and their problem.

The west should leave that whole region alone. Stop supporting Israel, stop seeking to exert influence in the area, stop accepting immigrants and asylum seekers from there etc.

I've been struck by how many people from there being interviewed on the likes of Al Jazeera are resident in London. Surely we don't need them here.

We should isolate ourselves from the region, and not seek to influence it. It would be better for them and us in the long run.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

We should be concerned Mubarak has been an ally of the West for 30 years he is also instrumental in gaining peace between Egypt and Israel, the alternative is Islamic rule in Egypt and everyone knows what will happen then.

I can't help but feel Islam is dominating the Middle East, we should watch very carefully the outcome of these protests. Israel should be ready to defend itself at short notice!!

THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY
AS IMPOTENT POLITICIANS SAY:IT'S THE CAPITAL
MARKETS THAT RULE THE WORLD.
IT'S A CAPITALIST DICTATORSHIP / APARTHEID !
IF YOU HAVE BIG MONEY YOU ARE FREE AND DOMINATE
(tax free).
OTHERWISE YOU ARE A CAPITALIST SLAVE (and on top of that you pay taxes )

Watch and learn. I never really thought much about the idea of the Internet being blocked, or at least only superficially thought about it. The brainy ones look as if they are finding new ways to communicate from Egypt. I worry that the idea of rebellion will spread and so will the counter-idea of blocking communication systems.

I ask myself, would our own country block the Internet given a certain set of circumstances?
I don't care about riots and rebellion, that is for young people. However, I do care about other sorts of emergency situations and I would sleep happier at night knowing that communications would not be deliberately blocked if such problems were to occur.

theilliberal wrote:
"Few people have the imagination for reality." Do you count yourself among the 'few'? :)


I think a very definite no would be the answer to that, I much prefer hiding out on HYS with all of the other shut-ins and social misfits :-)

Who knows what the majority of the Egyptian people really want, politics conducted in the street or by the gun only reflects what the loudest, strongest or most violent want. Only democracy for all its faults allied to free open elections makes the voice of the people as a whole be heard. As Churchill said "democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
Mubarak may once have actually been able to win an open election should he have tried it, however that time appears now to have passed.

80. At 3:43pm on 31 Jan 2011, FlashMagski wrote:
We should be concerned Mubarak has been an ally of the West for 30 years he is also instrumental in gaining peace between Egypt and Israel, the alternative is Islamic rule in Egypt and everyone knows what will happen then.

I can't help but feel Islam is dominating the Middle East, we should watch very carefully the outcome of these protests. Israel should be ready to defend itself at short notice!!
----------------------------------------------
Well, of course Islam is dominating the Middle East, that's a centuries-old fact. Just as Christianity dominates most of Europe and America, Judaism dominates Israel, etc. None of that would be a problem if these religious groups tolerated one another, refrained from trying to convert or destroy the others, and avoided aligning religion with politics.
Christianity has learned these lessons, slowly and painfully. Unfortunately Islam has not.

82. At 3:49pm on 31 Jan 2011, sensiblegrannie wrote:

Watch and learn. I never really thought much about the idea of the Internet being blocked, or at least only superficially thought about it. The brainy ones look as if they are finding new ways to communicate from Egypt. I worry that the idea of rebellion will spread and so will the counter-idea of blocking communication systems.
___________________

Blocked or filtered through the BBC, what's the difference?

83. At 3:51pm on 31 Jan 2011, General_Jack_Ripper wrote:

theilliberal wrote:
"Few people have the imagination for reality." Do you count yourself among the 'few'? :)


I think a very definite no would be the answer to that, I much prefer hiding out on HYS with all of the other shut-ins and social misfits :-)
___________

Well said! :)

Magi Tatcher wrote:
re: Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
He also wrote "We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe."


Nice one Magi, that's one of my favourites of his, I could keep going with quotes of his all day as he wrote so many great lines during his life but somehow I think the moderators may well cut us off for being off topic. With that in mind I think I'll leave you with:

"The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything."

It's not aimed at you or anyone else, I just like it and I'm quite happy to be able to share the writings of someone I love on HYS.

Power to the people.

It is very likely that many demonstrating against the current regime in Egypt, and regimes elsewhere in North Africa, have a vague desire for a more democratic, free and open society without any detailed specification for this better place!

The same could have been said about Iran in the late 1970's, but those who knew exactly what they wanted quickly held sway when the old regime was toppled.

The majority there fell under a different type of regime, but with no more freedoms to show for the earlier struggle and no more of a voice in the new society.

As with many things in life, the warning "Be careful what you wish for" is one that is worthy of careful consideration.

To USAF gen. Jack T. Ripper...


Please, withold them your vital bodily fluid.

That way, in 30-40 years they'll be all gone.


[yes, Johny's still marching home]

Re Post 80: You are aware that most of the population in the ME are Muslim, either Sunni(the majority) or Shia. Even in Israel, 20% of Israelis are muslim too.
Maybe you should be concerned that most of these countries are effectively dicatorships, some of which have been supported by the West for decades and even those the West don't much care for, are partners in the 'War on Terror', even Syria has been used for 'extraordinary rendition'.
Democratic opposition in these countries has been undermined, with the connivance of the West, for decades. Anyone receiving the endorsement of the West will be immediately suspect. Only the Islamists can claim to have no taint of Western influence.

Of course we should be concerned, Egypt may yet end up like Iran, run by Fundamentalist madmen bent on destroying anyone and anything that does not conform to their twisted beliefs. The people of Egypt may well find themselves "free" but part of the antheap ideology imposed by clerics who regard all life as expendable if it suits their ends.

"The real difference between democracy and oligarchy is poverty and wealth. Wherever men rule by reason of their wealth, whether they be few or many, that is an oligarchy, and where the poor rule, that is democracy".
Aristotle

Whatever system we in the UK, the rest of Europe and the USA have, it's a very long way from democracy then!

35. At 1:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, TootingBull wrote:
"Let the Egyptian people sort it out . . .
Listened to Tony Blair interviewed on the 5 LIVE this morning and he confirmed my doubts about his love of democracy. He . . . seems to be calling for democracy as long as the Egyptians 'vote for the right people' "

Yeah, Toots he was always keen for "the right people" and "doing the right thing", wasn't he? I believe we (though not me personally, I hasten to add) went into Iraq, not because of WMD, not because it was sanctioned by the UN or anything like that, it was "the right thing to do", wasn't it, Tony? So "the right people" would be the people Tony wants then and not people he doesn't really like. Well: look on the bright side, Egypt, on those criteria at least it won't be Gordon Brown.

I also like the way that the US and China are evacuating their nationals, but Britain is advising any Brits out there to "fly home by commercial means". How private enterprise spirited of the FCO!

I presume that all those countries that are calling for 'Democracy' and 'The Will of the People' will be the first to demand that Mubarak be sent to the Hague to answer for his actions during the past 30 years?
They can then present evidence to the court that they did all in their power to stop the killings, the torture and violent oppression of the people of Egypt and clear up the impression that they connived in and condoned Mubarak's alleged criminality.
Justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done, without fear or favour.

What next for Egypt?
Demonstrations are continuing in parts of Egypt for the seventh day as protesters demand the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak. What next for the region?

This is a very worrying situation and one that could lead to serious trouble for the West.
The Suez Canal runs through Egypt - the consequencies of an Islamic Fundamentalist taking power - as in Iran - do not bear thinking about in this part of North Africa, if the Suez Canal is closed - for what ever reason, it will add huge costs to shipping in having to navigate around the Cape of South Africa - true it would be a lot further for the 'pirates of Somalia' to attack the shipping, if not totally beyond their reach.

However, with the rise of the Muslim Fundamentalist states, there could be real trouble waiting in the wings for the West - I hope I am wrong.

It is now that under such circumstances that I have to aplaud Cameron and Klegg for scrapping our only aircraft carrier the Ark Royal, the Harriers and now the Nimrods - this going ahead despite all the warnings from the military Chiefs of Staff - who are clearly in a much better and more informed position on possible tactics should matters get so serious. But there we are.

With the cuts here in the UK we will soon see the first Royal Hang Glider Fighter squadron.

The Royal Marines will be equipped with bows and arrows, long range spears, swords and cutlasses who will attack via rowing boats and coracal straw boats, the sinking of an enemy ship will of course be achievable using a 'Stanley Hand Drill' and a No. 10 metal drill bit, the attackers will row their boat alongside the enemy ship, carefully drill through the hull beneath the waterline before making good their escape, the enemy ship will start sinking and maybe sink within eight weeks - or months even, thereby fooling the enemy into looking to find out who left the shower on, the bath running or overfilled the washing machine, not knowing their ship was actually attacked. Damn Cunning!

Meanwhile the Tank Squadrons, whose tanks will probably be next for the chop, are as I type, training hard in the art of military deception on Salisbury Plain, upon being ordered to attack a target, they will, en-mass, march to the target area shouting "tankety tank, tankety tank, tankety tank" whilst two squadron members operate a hand held 'tank squeak imitation devices' thereby scareing the enemy witless, who upon seeing squadrons of Hang Glider Fighters dive bombing them with rotten eggs and tomatoes (All the amunition has also been scrapped or sold off by this time) This will then of course totally imobilise the enemy who will fall around laughing themselves to death.

The SAS, whose 'Pink Panther' long range desert Land Rovers will also have been scrapped, will get behind enemy lines on highly camaflarged donkeys, where they will attack their enemy with lollypop sticks and something made from a empty toilet roll and a plastic bottle with a Blue Peter Badge on it.

Radar will be replaced by large 'ear trumpets' to amplify the sound from fifty feet away, radio communications between units could be very dificult, as it is very dificult hold an empty tin-can to ones ear, with the string to the next empty tin-can being kept taut for the flow of information to the following unit, still undergoing trials.

Of course 12 bore Shotguns and Amunition will be kept, "What, stop the glorious 12th, That just wouldn't be cricket old boy, what!"

54. At 2:49pm on 31 Jan 2011, rajah wrote:

> At 2:39pm on 31 Jan 2011, buzios wrote:

> With the Muslim Brotherhood poised to take power I am very concerned about > the future of Egypt.

And I would be very happy, as would 80 million Egyptians, and billions more Muslims around the world. Its time to rid ourselves of Western backed rulers, with failing western solutions, and return to what fits our culture, our values and our interests.

-------------------------

Just an interested question. The west is urging egypt not to beat, torture or kill protesters. In afghanistan it is the west urging tribes not to kill each other. In iraq the west is urging people not to kill each other.

And without the west there these people killed each other and with the west urging peace there are some who try and the rest who want to return to the old way. The old way where they kill each other.

So I would like to follow your statement by asking if you think muslims are (as you say) 'happy' when killing each other?

You state-

"Its time to rid ourselves of Western backed rulers, with failing western solutions, and return to what fits our culture, our values and our interests."

Which sounds like you want us to take away the western solution of peace and let you return to warring. But the reason we get involved is because your fighting spills out and not only kills your own people but also ours.

To 72. General_Jack_Ripper

I dont think my comment is ment for you. I have read stupid comment stating our gov is next because of the oppression in this country.

I agree things could be better here and there are always ways to improve (and we should strive) but some poeples comments are commical.

People are dying on the streets of egypt and yet some people here think they have it bad.

86. At 4:06pm on 31 Jan 2011, theilliberal wrote:

82. At 3:49pm on 31 Jan 2011, sensiblegrannie wrote:

Watch and learn. I never really thought much about the idea of the Internet being blocked, or at least only superficially thought about it. The brainy ones look as if they are finding new ways to communicate from Egypt. I worry that the idea of rebellion will spread and so will the counter-idea of blocking communication systems.
___________________

Blocked or filtered through the BBC, what's the difference?

--------------------------

Pull out that ethernet cable at the back of your computer and you will see.