Can the UK cope with a 78m population?

A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK. We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever. We have a very segregated society and we are falling lower and lower in the world list of highest quality education, health etc. The reasons for the diversity needs to be closely looked at. If people want to come in and live the British lifestyle and want to take on our culture then that would be fine. It would lead to good integration and eventually people would blend and the culture would evolve over many years. The problem is that people are coming for the wrong reasons and do not intend to stay permanently. Too many are coming at one time and the indigenous are not able to cope with such infiltration. The governing bodies are forcing issues and are biased in favour of the immigrants. They are demanding that we accept it and we have a right to say "NO". After all it is our home. In your family you come first before neighbours and then your town before the next town and so on. It is natural human behaviour and the government and others have totally missed the point. It shows that really they have no idea about how to do their job.

Looks like our little island is going to sink. Seriously we need to take a long hard look at immigration & actually do something to curb it before our little island is over run & services crumble under the weight.

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We alrady have water shortages in the summer and a lack of affordable housing etc, so the answer is no, we cannot sustain that amount of population growth.

We are going from being a unified British people to a fragmented nation of different races which have little in common. The increase in population will likely lead to terrorism, civil war, overcrowding, homelessness, destruction of the countryside, huge increases in crime and a permanent rise in unemployment . The Britain of the future may end up as a cross between Zimbabwe and Pakistan.

Common sense says not. The infrastructure in the south of England, where most settle, is Victorian and under great stress. The problem is that people think that the world runs on clockwork without reverses. It only needs one pandemic and he world will be short of people, never mind space.

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HAHAHAHA

78 million ARE YOU HAVING A LAUGH!?

Er...no!!

Gosh even the thought of it is scary enough! 60 million people here and 2 million out of work! More people coming in, it'd be hell for the unemployed because competition will be too much!

Unless the whole of the UK transforms its infrastructure and has skyscrapers everywhere like New York so people can literally live and work on top of each other, but I don't see that happening soon!

In 1851 the population was 20m, in 1901 40m, in 1951 50m, in 2001 59m. And now the University of Leeds suggests this will increase to 78m by 2051.

Even if there are inaccuracies in the Leeds University data, I suggest there is a worrying trend here. And based on empirical data it doesn't look likely that population growth will reduce after 2051 unless something is done.

How on earth are we going to employ everyone and provide them all with food and shelter?

As long as the increase in population is only in England....we can cope.

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Stop child benefit.
Restrict people as they've tried in China to one child per family.
No immigration.

There's study after study pointing the finger at cars, planes, fossil fuels for producing CO2, but these fingers should be pointing at something that biology taught me at school. Humans and animals breath in air, and breat out CO2. The more people the more CO2. The more people, the more cars etc etc. Its a continuous cycle that no one is attempting to stop as it's too taboo. The governments don't want to upset the religious brigaide. They also don't want to upset many of their voters by removing child benefits and being told what to do.

It will continue and continue unless someone in governments through out the countries of this planet put their foot down and stop over populating an already over populated planet. China have attempted this, and its about time every other government does the same. It's either that or compulsory euthanasia to save this planet.

Can the UK cope with a 78m population?

Yes its going to briliant, shame I'll probably be dead but still.

4/5 population still white by 2051 what happened to all those right wing predictions that the UK would be an islamic state by next Tuesday?

And why are people worried about what colour their great great grand children will be anyway - we're all homo sapiens- spread the love.

With the right improvements made to our infrastructure we would have no problem sustaining a population of 78 million.

Manhattan has a population density of almost 71,000 people per square mile; this makes London, our most densely populated city, look positively empty by comparison with only 11,000 people per square mile.

The problem we have is that, unlike the United States, we don't have several areas of farm land the size of Wales to produce all of our food so it would mean we'd have to import even more food than we currently do.
Although even our current population would be unsustainable if we had to feed ourselves instead of relying on food imports.

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The only comfort I can take from this frightening figure is that I won't be around to witness the conclusion. God help those who are.

Will a more diverse population strengthen the UK?

Overall it’s not done to brilliantly so far, so I am guessing if we carry on with this farce called "multiculturalism" (allowing people to live within their own culture whilst ignoring the predominant culture) then no, I suspect the situation and the cry for separation and the demand for recognition for your particular culture will get worse. I would hate to see an issue such as Kosovo here as one particular group demands the right to self authority simply because they are the predominant culture in that area.

Should the government do anything to limit population growth?

Yes! I see nothing wrong with reducing the numbers of people coming to this country. I fail to see, with rising unemployment, how we as a nation can realistically allow people to emigrate here. I would further suggest that perhaps the removal of people who have moved here and who are "under performing" is also something to be considered. I suppose there are those who will jump and scream "Racism", but we have to be realistic. We haven't the infrastructure to cope with a rapidly expanding population and their needs and I am (almost militantly) opposed to seeing anymore of this beautiful green country given over to development.

How will the increasing population impact on you?

I do like my wide open spaces and I enjoy days wandering around the countryside with not another human in sight. I suspect this small pleasure will become a rarity with a growing population. I also wonder what kind of country it will be for my kids and my grandchildren, all packed onto this tiny little island with so many millions of others.

Just change the system so that ALL immigrants have to have over £100,000 to deposit into a UK bank to prove that you are solvent, that you can privately educate your children and that you won't rely on the NHS. This would ensure our limited resources are not impacted. Australia uses a similar system so it's not unthinkable.

Yes let’s continue with the open door all welcome policy why millions here are already unemployed and on one benefit or another, the population of this country should be capped at a sustainable 55 million.

Or we could stop nearly all immigration into the UK except for highly trained people who want to contribute to this country.

Stop paying any sort of benefit after the 2nd child, some of the immigrants / asylum seekers here are knocking out as many kid’s as they can in the shortest possible time.

Stop taking asylum seekers who turn up with any stupid excuse “Being Gay for example”; we ARE NOT the nearest safe country for any of these people.

Deport all and every illegal immigrant here already.

Revoke UK citizenship for people who have come here in the last 20 years if they commit a crime in this country and deport them and dependants (Watch the crime rate fall)

Of course none of this is possible while we are in Europe or we are signed up to the ridiculous human rights act, so stop paying lawyers public money to represent these people and ignore the countless charities and support groups that spring up like weeds on the lawn.

At the end of the day it’s the government’s duty to protect this country and the people in it and none of them have performed this duty for the past 40 years.

Are my above comments racist? will they upset some people? Maybe but I am not advocating kicking everyone out, I have several good friends from ethnic minorities who were born and bread in this country and who are decent hard working people and guess what? They agree with everything I have just written above because they have had enough too.

All I am saying that enough is enough and I would like some of countryside and culture left for my grandchildren to play in and identify with one day.

1. At 12:05pm on 13 Jul 2010, adelaide wrote:
A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK. We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever. We have a very segregated society.

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Speak for yourself, or rather keep speaking for the Mail.

Britain is Brilliant and will continue to be so.

By the way to all those who claim that multi-culturalism has failed - what effort did you ever make personally to intergrate? What effort did you make to make it a succsess for yourselves.

Nothing?

Thought so.

The rest of us are having a great time in the UK and will continue to do so.

2. At 12:13pm on 13 Jul 2010, Queen_Becci_B wrote:
Looks like our little island is going to sink. Seriously we need to take a long hard look at immigration & actually do something to curb it before our little island is over run & services crumble under the weight.

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You think islands float?

I am sick and tired of hearing how grateful I should be that the resources of this country are stretched to breaking point. What is there to be thankful for?

Every single nationality and religion is now catered for with the exception of our own. Too often we learn that we should not fly our flag for fear of upsetting others. We should not say this or do that for fear of hurting an immigrant's finer feelings.

Nothing will ever convince me that this level of immigration has been to this country's advantage. The figures just don't add up especially when just one immigrant family is able to claim benefits to the tune of £2,000 per week. We need honesty re the cost of this social experiment not being fobbed off by self interested politicians.

The public was not consulted on the issue of mass immigration and NuLabour's legacy will be the demise of Britishness. Speaking English does not make you an Englishman/woman.

Being elected into power certainly didn't give them the right to ride roughshod of the wishes of the majority. Joe Public has been voicing concern for years now and still we have a farcical immigration policy.

I foresee nothing but trouble as numbers increase and the indigenous population of this country are made to feel voiceless second class citizens.

It is the duty of government to care for its people before all others. Those who elected them to office should expect no less. Cometh the hour cometh the man - we are in desperate need of the right man now before it is too late and we become NuLabour's melting pot.

Is Cameron that man? - I doubt it.
Is Clegg? - absolutely not.

3 weeks after it stops raining we have a hosepipe ban as we're "short of water". Young working couples taxed to oblivion so only the rich or the non-working can afford a family. House prices propelled upwards by increasing demand. No idea how many people are here, or how many should be. Every public service creaking at the seams and being cut back. Permanent traffic gridlock. Racial tension, ethnic ghettos, home-grown terrorists and english a second language in schools. And the solution? More of the same. Jeez.

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If China can thrive with a population of 1,500,000,000 why shouldn't Britain cope with a piddly 78,000,000. The unjustifiable wealth of some making the less well off jealous will split Britain down the middle. It is too late to avoid the rift as a large part of the indigenous population still consider immigrants as sub-standard workers whilst refusing to do the kind of work they expect the immigrants to be satisfied with! The Empire isn't declining, it's finished and unless the Brits,as a whole,learn to accept this then there is no hope for the future in Britain. Living in the past will not feed the people in the future!

We can't cope with 62 million. Immigration into Britain from the must stop now.

Enoch warned us what would happen if we allowed uncontrolled immigration.

20% of immigrants across the UK means close to 100% in a lot more places than now (where I live it's well over 50% already).

I'm no racist but I'm sad to see our culture being pushed aside in the interests of so-called multi-culturalism. Others feel a lot more strongly than I and with a 78m population fighting over scarce resources, I fear the predicted rivers of blood will be flowing long before 2051.

The UK is barely coping with the present population and ‘secular diversity’. So, No it will not.
What it will mean for the UK is the rapid erosion of our standards, morality and ethics as a British nation. That is not good. Yes I am proud to be British is there something wrong with that?

Oh dear, this discussion will not begin well, let alone end well. However, it's worth pointing out before this discussion descends into idiots yelling "don't let brown people in!!1!1!!" that demographic projections are typically completely wrong. France was, in the 1940s, predicting that it would have a population of 100m people by the year 2000. Mainland France (excluding French Guiana, Martinique, etc.) in fact only has a population marginally larger than that of the UK - some 61m or so, despite huge incentives for parents to have many children and boost the population.

Anyway, even as what most Daily Mail readers would term a "pinko leftie commie librul" (*foaming at the mouth*) I think that there's probably a hard limit to immigration into the UK and the EU in general for the sake of the environment and infrastructural capacity. The human population as a whole is increasing exponentially and Europe already has a hugely disproportionate percentage of the population given it's tiny land area. We're putting the environment of the European continent under enormous pressure through intensive development, and if it goes much further then the continent's fragile ecological beauty will be completely destroyed through overdevelopment of sensitive areas. Not to mention that individual nation states in Europe will increasingly have problems with building enough long-term infrastructure to support a population enlarged by 10-30%.

In short, this is all highly theoretical and I don't think that either the UK or EU will, simply for practical reasons, accept current immigration levels from outside of the EU for much longer. It won't get to 75 million in the UK before there's riots in the streets (not from me), but I don't think it'll get to 70m before governments start to realise that they have to reduce the population, rather than increase it.

Do you know what? This subject is so boring! So the UK population will reach 78m by 2051 so what! Who cares?

Quite frankly it crap journalism like this stirring up panic, hatred and fear that makes me so angry.

What should can the government do….well, let’s all become right wing fascist and tell anyone to go home. Restrict people having babies….blar blar blar. Oh, I’ve fallen asleep

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It is bad enough that the population is forecast to rise to 70 million in the next 15/20 years but to go to 78 million in 40 years time is utter madness. Where are the jobs , schools , hospitals etc, and more importantly money to pay for it all, coming from to support this vast increase. People are living longer and now retiring later so the jobs turnover will slow. Multiculturalism is already discredited so to have 20% of the population of ethnic origin would make matters worse. The pressure on jobs would be far greater and would lead to resentment if it were seen that some were being favoured over others. Lets not forget that this country is in slow long term decline with economic power shifting eastwards to China, India etc and our manufacturing base is being eroded all the time. A larger population will lead to a poorer ,unhappier nation.

Hopefully all these people who keep threatening to leave the country will actually have the spine to do so, so it wont be a problem!

I don't think it will get that high - the middle and upper classes will have left for greener pastures.

The population of Britain is a massive problem because of density (shift some people up north and things would be (a little) better.

Before people talk about raising the drawbridges perhaps a sensible discussion on how many children is best for all. I have long proposed the gov should only fund the first two children.

The real crisis will hit globally (as people start to emigrate on a massive scale because resources have all been used up in a location).

Yes, I think most people can see this one looming on the horizon. Unless the government wants serious social unrest of a kind not seen in this country it will take action to avert this now. The people of this country could probably sustain 60-65 million naturally, however people arriving from certain other parts of the world will breed at a much faster rate (as per the situation in many countries around the world right now).

A few points i'd note.


1/ For many having lots of kids is a golden ticket to a very comfortable lifestyle (on West Indian lady on the news was complaining because the government were capping her rent allowance to 400 A WEEK!!!!)

channel 4 report here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9XEb_V4SoQ

2/ As the numbers of people from distinct communities increase they will, quite naturally, form distinct separate communities who will not have integrated, using a different language and applying there own laws. It's really a recipe for trouble, especially as resources are stretched.

I fear the answer to this would be considered racist, and I'm glad I'm not the one to have to make the tough calls. If no one makes the calls for fear of the liberal-left wing critisism, the inevitable problems could make the NI troubles look like a waterfight.

Here's hoping peace prevails as out society is put under unsustainable strain.

With the population going up to 70 odd million there will be even more social problems. And the more problems you have the more money has to be spent solving them. And guess what...it is the hard earning tax payer who sorts(or trys to sort out)these problems out.

Surely it is wiser to stop immigration, stop child benifit, stop people from breeding like rabbits and don't give women a council flat. The population will decrease.

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Well we will have to cope. No government has the power or inclination to curb numbers. Enoch powell was wrong, the future will be much worse in the long run than he supposed.

Surely it's time we took measures to limit population growth, for everyone in the UK? Scrap child allowance for anything more than two children for a start, and means test the rest.

adelaide wrote:
"If people want to come in and live the British lifestyle and want to take on our culture"
What! Fish and chips and Benny Hill?
At least you can easily get the ingredients to make a good curry these days, those of you who can cook that is! Apart from the pre-prepared pre-packed jobs which are all over your shops these days, what do you eat at home? The Empire isn't going to come back you know! Dream on!

As a proud British mixed race man, I am encouraged by the increasing ethnic diversity in our country which easily reflects the wide ethnic diversity within my family and circle of friends who all seem to be able to get along with eachother despite many differences. Whenever I visit London to see my family and friends I am confronted with a busy hustle and bustle of London life and culture which I don't really see within the rural area that I live in. But all of this is belied whenever I take a flight. On every flight I have ever taken I am always amazed at the sheer beauty of the open and apparrently empty patchwork quilt of British countryside that I see below which seems to give no indication that our country is or will be overpopulated but quite the opposite. But for me the cold questions are:
Can our country's resources support a growing population?
Will competition for resources and services create cross ethnic/culture/community conflicts?
Economic Downturn aside, are we a victim of our own success, PR and the legacy of the British Empire?
How best should we manage population growth (perhaps through better sex education and immigration control)without losing any significant benefit?
I am no expert, but if we are predicting a growth to 78 million by 2051 that is widely considered to be unmanageable, then we need to act now either to limit that growth or to put us in a position where we can actually sustain such a growth. But whatever the outcome, if our country can maintain its diversity and become more united outside of the realms of Cloud Cuckoo Land, that would be ideal.

General_Jack_Ripper wrote: With the right improvements made to our infrastructure we would have no problem sustaining a population of 78 million.

Why would be want to?! We're already like a plague on this land, using up resources and land and intruding on the habitat of other species.

It's time to stop. Quality, not quantity please.

What the article neglects to mention - as does the study itself - is that the UN projects the global population to rise from the 6.7 billion it stands at now to 8.9 billion in 2050, thanks in no small part to a significant increase in the average life expectancy (birth rates have been showing a downward trend for some time but life expectancy more than negates this).

78 million will test the UK's infrastructure to the limit, there's no doubt about that, and as such I think immigration will be capped before that point. But even then, immigration and life expectancy are not linked, so even an immigration-capped UK would still find its population rising...and growing older.

Overpopulation is a global problem, not a local one. While it might please some people to see fewer non-white faces in the UK, the pressures of overpopulation on a planet that is creaking badly under the weight of catastrophic globalization will still be the same wether immigration is capped or not.

Well, the answer must be to invest heavily in land and residential property, then go and live somewhere else.

Yes. If the NIMBY's and "already rich" let people build on more greenfield land.

Why should the majority of the population be shoehorned into grotty cities so that the rich can enjoy (and prosper from) the countryside? I don't buy the argument that the countryside is there for everyone to enjoy. We have built on a tiny percentage of our land and could stil build more without doing much damage.

Developers these days build microscopic houses and charge a fortune for them. Yet another example of how the haves are repressing the have-nots. Don't worry about your dirty, noisy crowded towns though proles - you can have a picnic in the countryside once a month to make up for it.

People using this as a chance of rant about diversity and spout their racism should take note that some people are born here with immigrant parents/grandparents - like me. I may not be white, but I consider myself British first, Indian second. I love this country, so much so that if I were fit enough I'd serve in the army. I've worked and paid by taxes too. And football is my passion, not cricket. And I studied English at a top 4 uni.

You wanna kick me out?

I'm going NOWHERE!

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It isn't just a number, is it? Everyone needs a home. If new homes need to be built they need roads, schools, hospitals, shops. Then people need jobs.

How many more energy-saving light bulbs does everyone need to use to allow for such an increase in the demand for power?

Aviemore has experienced water shortages since the building of new properties. For water we have no national grid, and it's probably too expensive to try and put one in place now.

Other areas have suffered flooding due to new properties and large areas of land being concreted over. Developers probably don't care what happens to the properties once they have been sold, and the local authorities are desperately trying to comply with government guidelines for the need for new properties, so they probably also overlook issues such as this.

I consider it fortunate for myself that I shall either have popped off by then or probably be suffering from dementia and will be totally unaware of my surroundings. We shall have little natural environment left.

It can't cope with 62 million!

Where exactly are another 10 million people going to live? I suppose we could turn all the currently unused brown-field sites where industry used to be into housing, rather than building new factories. The only other option is to build in the countryside. The South Downs, for example, has some lovely views and spaces for large estates. It's a National Park, but hey, if people need homes we need to build them. Seriously (though i'm sure property developers would agree with my earlier comments) i despair for the future of this country. I am not racist, i think there has to be a cap on immigration regardless of colour and a new look at Child Benefits to 'encourage' people to act responsibly by having fewer children. I consider all the arguments about diversity, economic 'neccesity' and 'human rights' as of minor importance when considered against the quality of life of people already living here. Labour failed in my view in the last election because they were afraid to tackle the issue because they were too worried about upsetting Liberal Political Correctness elements. The current government needs to bite the bullet. Failure to confront this issue plays into the hands of groups like the BNP, who quite frankly have the only clearly defined position on the issue which fills me with dread.

It's ridiculous to even think this.

The country is already full as it is.

Time to ewmigrate.

We have had the standard UKIP/BNP twaddle regarding "swamping" of the "indigenous" population.

This is nonsense.
Currently 5% of the UK's population was born outside of the UK (One third of this figure is accounted for by the Republic of Ireland)
By 2050 (not next week 40 years from now) this is estimated to rise to slightly under 10%
That means that 71 million out of an estimated 78 million of the UK Population would have been born here.

Now I have to make an assumption that the UKIP/BNP crowd are not all Neanderthals that means their ancestors like the rest of the human population recent or past will be migrants and I have even worse news for them go back sufficiently far and they will all be from Africa and were almost certainly black.


Movement of populations in the 21st Century actually looks small compared to levels in the 19th Century and we unlike the rest of Western Europe should be glad that it looks like we will have a far higher percentage of adults of working age, paying taxes than countries such as Italy or France where the number of adults working will be exceeded by the number of adults retired.

To simplify this for the BNP/UKIP mob this means foreign migrants will be paying for your Old Age Pension and Health Services.

"25. At 12:39pm on 13 Jul 2010, rustle wrote:
If China can thrive with a population of 1,500,000,000 why shouldn't Britain cope with a piddly 78,000,000."

China is vast. The standard of living for many is appalling. China as a country may be thriving. Many of its peasants are not.

Welcome to the problems the US has suffered for decades...mass immigration of the uneducated, unemployed, unskilled, who know only enough English to file for welfare & medical benefits. The brave new world of the naive liberal agenda.

>>1. At 12:05pm on 13 Jul 2010, adelaide wrote:
>>A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK.

How are you judging that? The UK has always had a diverse population! It's a bit much to say the Romans, Saxons, Normans, Vikings, Picts, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Celts and Huguenots (amongst others) did nothing positive for us! I'm being facetious but you get the point.

>> We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever.

I thought gun and knife crime was actually going down in the last figures and how do you quantify unhappiness? Surely during Victorian times there was more unhappiness since disease and infant mortality rates were far higher.

>> If people want to come in and live the British lifestyle and want to take on our >>culture then that would be fine.

Again please tell me what the "British lifestyle" is? Surely there isn't one "British lifestyle" and there has never been just one.

>>It would lead to good integration and eventually people would blend and the >>culture would evolve over many years.

Culture is always evolving and it isn't just influenced by immigration. I would suggest TV (and in particular US TV shown here) influences mainstream culture to a much greater extent than immigration (probably because in reality we have a greater exposure to it).

>>The problem is that people are coming for the wrong reasons and do not intend to >>stay permanently. Too many are coming at one time and the indigenous are not able >>to cope with such infiltration. The governing bodies are forcing issues and are >>biased in favour of the immigrants. They are demanding that we accept it and we >>have a right to say "NO". After all it is our home. In your family you come first >>before neighbours and then your town before the next town and so on. It is >>natural human behaviour and the government and others have totally missed the >>point. It shows that really they have no idea about how to do their job.

I can agree with you on several of your points here but really it is beyond the governments control to some extent. The majority of people (4 out of every 5 according to the Lib Dems which might be exaggerated) coming here are from EU countries which means they can't be prevented from working here by our government unless you want to pull out of the EU and lose a large chunk of our trade (not to mention foreign investors who choose the UK as a route into the EU).

There isn't an easy answer here and the "fear" of a large immigrant population is not a new thing (see Pharoahs treatment of the Israelites in the Bible or Sparta or Rome's worry of the large non-native slave populations). A more general question would be if population levels are that severe is it time for the one child rule they have in China?

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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Immigration into Britain from the must stop now

Yes.

People should see this as overwhlmingly good news. There will be more people woprking and paying tax and we'll all benefit from the extra diversity this will bring in more ways than I can count.

We need a population reduction starting from now. We were coping well in the middle of last century at around 50 million. If we cannot afford the increase then stop it now, not just monetary terms but resources, pollution, employment & health. We should be working on a ratio of 2:1, as two people leave it makes room for one.

We need to ensure that green spaces are not built on and that there should be a limit on new houses and more flats built, which are a much more efficent use of development land.

Urban spread/sprawl also creates longer commutes which helps no one.

The UK should enforce a strict recycling policy and conservation of energy. A large population survives on a reasoned distribution of resources. The government could consider reducing potent alcohol to discourage addiction. A low percent of alcohol in the drink like beer promotes a sober attitude.

grainsofsand wrote:
We are going from being a unified British people to a fragmented nation of different races which have little in common.


That's funny; when I was young the term British People included those from the West Indies, India, Singapore, Burma and many other parts of the world too. We were of many different races and religions but we were taught at school that we were all British.
We all stood together as one people when fighting the Nazi's too, it's such a shame so many people keep coming out with all of this rubbish about our country and our people while forgetting that this would have been Hitler’s country were it not for the millions of Asians and Africans who fought for us or provided us with food, clothing and other essential supplies during those difficult times.

I've also found I have lots in common with my immigrant neighbours, in some cases far more than I have in common with the indigenous British neighbours I have.
Britain was a dull, grey place in the 1940s and I, for one, feel that the immigrants who have come here have made this a far better and more interesting place to live and I’d happily trade all of the English Nationalists, BNP members and the like for a load more of them too.

And where exactly are we going to build the two new cities the size of Birmingham that we will need to house these people.
I work in an architects office & believe me local authority planning officers work at a snails pace, we've been working on a plot for 65 houses & so far it's taken 5 years for the local authority to make a decision.
'can we cope with 78 million population?' ...it's pointless even asking.

1. At 12:05pm on 13 Jul 2010, adelaide wrote:
A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK. We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever. We have a very segregated society and we are falling lower and lower in the world list of highest quality education, health etc.

-----------------------------------------

If you think that society is segregated then maybe you should speak out against the class structure. I live in a town with an ethnic population well below national average. Investment buyers cramming 4 students to a house and the rich selling their large houses for developers (to put 30 flats on each plot) has wrecked our community.

Blame immigrants if you must but, believe me, the quest for profits can put pressure on resources and services much quicker than immigration.

I'd happily have 10 immigrants enter the country for every self-serving toff we could kick out.

Obviously the UK will not be able to cope, but to prevent it from happening will take radical measures. One child per family, at most, should be the norm, and anyone willingly creating more than that should be named and shamed. There are simply far, far too many people on this planet - we are little short of a plague.

OK a report from Right wing Haven Leeds!!! so much for the truth then, and im sick of people going on about intergration well the fact is no asians moved their homes or kids out of school because they had to share with whites! This self righteous, "we live in a christian country" nonsense has gone on long enough and this will end up in violence and civil war becase the white population are now putting conditions on non whites, you want a christain country make it a crime for christians who dont attend church, then see how christian it is, and that is coming from me a Buddhist who is watching the god word of Jesus Christ being turned in to some right wing propoganda!

Our country needs to take strategy planning seriously. These numbers mean nothing unless we have a strategic plan to compare the numbers to.

It is true that under planned under controlled population movement have caused bottlenecks in some areas, which means we need to do these things in a more orderly fashion, and hopefully with strategic objectives in mind.

It is not good enough to have government annual budgeting speeches to treak taxes.

As citizens, we need to understand our place in the plan, how well we are doing, and what is expected from us and what we need to do to benefit ourselves & our country in relation to the planning.

38. At 12:53pm on 13 Jul 2010, krokodil wrote:
Well we will have to cope. No government has the power or inclination to curb numbers. Enoch powell was wrong, the future will be much worse in the long run than he supposed.

---

Only if its left to those that think being born white in Britain entitles you to receive everything on a plate, without putting in any effort to get on with your fellow man.

Andrew Marr's BBC series Britain from the Air showed a country that seems to have reached the physical limits of its infrastructure. For example, the train tracks can't be widened and the platforms can't be lengthened to take on extra carriages. The same limits apply to water, electricity, housing, the crowded and cracking streets - everything. The government should be asking not how to "serve" twenty million new inhabitants by extending the asphalt of London out to Stonehenge but rather how to reverse population growth. What's even more challenging about this projection is that part in it played by cultural groups that failed to develop their own societies, which is exactly why they're in Britain and the west in the first place. It's not as if countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh (and some eastern European states) are short of sunshine and water; they seem rather to be short of the ability or willingness to build a social collective that works. The idea that they can "contribute" to a better Britain is therefore rather an uncertain one.

The last government's rabid pursuit of diversity and multiculturalism has now resulted in a country that feels fragmented and without an identity of it's own. Most attempts at proper discussions regarding immigration are met with snide, hysterical accusations of racism from the liberal left who seem hell bent on socially engineering this country into some sort of multicultural utopia.

If anyone is left in any doubt as to whether "social engineering" has actually been in place in any part of the country the following statement is one that appeared for a while on my local authority's website within the housing section.

"We would like to bring your attention to the Council’s local lettings policy regarding the allocation of new properties. We endeavour to create diverse and sustainable communities in any area where there are a large number of new properties. Therefore we will be nominating the first three successful applicants for each property, however we are unable to confirm that if you are top of the list your application will be successful. In this instance the need for diversity will be taken into consideration over and above application date."

I'll be the first to admit that the term "diversity" is pretty ambiguous, however the fact remains certain people were shown (being shown?) preference when it came to social housing.

25. At 12:39pm on 13 Jul 2010, rustle wrote:
If China can thrive with a population of 1,500,000,000 why shouldn't Britain cope with a piddly 78,000,000.

--

Possibly because, amongst other things, China is a just a little bit bigger in terms of land than the UK?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

What does 78m mean?

All politicians, their families, their hangers on, political pundits, journalists, civil service permanent secretaries, managers, departmental chiefs, and anyone paid more than £30k per annum will have to leave, by the end of this week, please.

Ethnic minorities currently comprise 8% of Great Britain's population, according to this report. So of a population of say 60 million, that is around the 5 million mark. Even when the total population reaches 78 million, and the ethnic minority population has reached 20%, that will still only amount to 15 million. The remaining 63 million will be non ethnic minority i.e. white. So, we are talking about a ratio of 12.5:1 currently, going to a ratio of 5:1 in 2051.

Perhaps the PC and affirmative action brigades would do well to remember this statistic when they inaccurately reflect the above in the disproportionate numbers of ethnic minorites represented in the media?
Looking at most television programmes today, it would seem that the proportion of ethnic minorities is more like 50%.

Or is the objective of the PC brigade to have a future where every Englishman is olive-skinned?

20. At 12:37pm on 13 Jul 2010, Scamandrius wrote:
1. At 12:05pm on 13 Jul 2010, adelaide wrote:
A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK. We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever. We have a very segregated society.

----

Speak for yourself, or rather keep speaking for the Mail.

Britain is Brilliant and will continue to be so.

By the way to all those who claim that multi-culturalism has failed - what effort did you ever make personally to intergrate? What effort did you make to make it a succsess for yourselves.

Nothing?

Thought so.

The rest of us are having a great time in the UK and will continue to do so.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh no we are not.

It is not down to the British people to make multi-culturism work. we do not see problems with those immigrants that integrate e.g. Chinese, Japanese, it is where communities are established do not adopt the culture of the host country that the problem lies.

Immigrants (just like everyone else) need to integrate and earn respect, it is not a given right to be accepted in a foreign land; this island has been fought over for too long to simply abdicate our heritage.

The religion of our Country is Church of England and it is time we remembered this instead of sweeping it under the carpet "in case we offend anyone".

What will this population increase mean for the UK?
Negative - too many ethnic minorities. Let's close the gates on Immigration.
Positive - multiculturalism, more workers, more taxes getting paid.
My answer: Let's learn to cope together while remembering that 78 million is just a guestimate.
I'm sure that Professor Philip Rees, didn't mean to sound ethnocentric when he said that the UK's ethnic make-up is "evolving significantly" - ethnic minorities will make up 20% of a 78m population. But this type of statement can easily result in xenophobia.
I feel a more diverse population will either strengthen or weaken the UK, depending on how the Government and its people react?
In the days (years) ahead, it may be vitally important to remember that ehnicity is only skin deep, and keep asking ourselves what we can I do to help our fellow humans? Hatred, bigotry, all negativity will never create an environment conducive to a happy life.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Personally I think anyone wanting to emigrate here should be locked up as obviously insane. Who the hell in their right mind wants to land in a miserable, violent, ugly country with no pride in itself, no interest in itself, led by a revolving door of muppets (thats all major parties) who have their heads full of cotton wool, and milked dry by a bunch of greedy and ill mannered idiots paid over the odds as football 'stars', bankers, 'top civil servants'...

I dont really care what the people think, they are british and can cry and whinge all they want but will do nothing about it, shall i tell you why............. because it is not up to them, the EU and US wont allow teh UK to breach Human Rights Laws and become the new Nazi Centre of europe! And finally the Human Rights Laws are the finest works of human behaviour ever written and much more accurate and fair than teh Bible, torah and Quran all put together! No mention of walking on water or thousand virgins dressed in hot pants! Just plain simple truths which should be reveered not put down in classic English negativity and Paranoia!

No the UK is a tiny, over crowded, resource-drained island and we will not cope.

All that will happen is vast increases in poverty and homelessness, overwhelmed public services, reduced living standards for all and Third World conditions similar to those of Lagos.

This is not inevitable and the situation can be changed immediately if the genuine political will to do so actually exists.

What can be done?

1. In educated societies the birth rate decreases and we need this to happen to compensate for the sheer volume of people living ever longer lifespans. Sex Education needs to be mandatory at an early age and all forms of Birth Control, Morning After Pills and Abortions need to be encouraged and promoted as much as possible with access made as easy as possible.

2. Legalise Euthanasia. It is the hallmark of a truly dignified society to allow those are terminally ill or in severe pain to be assisted to die if that is their clearly expressed wish.

3. For Doctors, the Health Service, Politicians and society to recognise that allowing people the personal freedom to indulge unhealthy lifestyles is actually a good thing. People who smoke, drink or over eat have shorter lifespans and die far earlier in life which is great for the country as whole. All drugs should be perfectly legal for this reason.

4. Immediate cap on all immigration and for the UK to derogate from outdated treaties such as the Geneva convention and the ECHR. The UK is simply unable to be the world's life boat anymore than the NHS can be the World's Health Service. We cannot offer any political asylum to anyone because we are practically unable to - instead of trying to fit a pint into a half pint glass, we need politicians to hold an emergency debate that implements this action as soon as possible.

5. Use the "Singapore solution" by giving generous corporate tax breaks to encourage businesses to relocate to areas of the country that are less densely populated.

Anyone who is concerned about this issue should write to their MP demanding all of the above.

What will that mean for the UK ? The same problems we see today only much worse. Inability to create resources, inability to clear away waste, social turmoil, etc. etc. etc..

Attempts at discouraging population growth should have been implemented 4 to 5 decades ago, yet some still dispute there's a problem. And we still encourage it. Amazing. Disheartening.

Of course not! The UK cannot cope with the population it currently has. We need to tackle both the birth rate and immigration as a matter of urgency. We have no say in what other countries do, that is their choice, but we must do what we need to do and get the population level down.

And don't let anyone fool you with talk of an ageing population, it is an unsolvable problem, if we have more births to 'correct it' then we simply leave a worse ageing population for future generations, better that we take a little hit now than leave them with a dire situation!

on 13 Jul 2010, rustle wrote:
If China can thrive with a population of 1,500,000,000 why shouldn't Britain cope with a piddly 78,000,000

==========
You are joking right, you grasp the concept of dimentions?

China
3.7 Million Sq Miles
1338 Million People
Population Density = 361 / Sq Mile

UK
0.094 Million sq Miles
63 Million people
Population Density = 660 / Sq Mile

the UK has Double The population Density of China

It is pretty obvious that the quality of life will worsen if we do end up with a population of 78 million. We already have a lot of problems fitting 62 million into the uk,so a further increase of 25% will make these problems a lot worse.
If you look at housing if the population does increase by 25% you will need to expand the urban areas by roughly the same percentage. I suspect the majority of this expansion will be in the South East, and one has to ask where is the space to build this housing. You then have all the associated problems such as where is the water that these additional households need going to come from, and how do you get rid of all the sewage and other rubbish. A related issue is that if you concrete over more land the risk of serious flooding increases as less land to absorb the floodwater.
If you look at Transport our roads and railways are already at capacity, so how can a further 25% increase in population be dealt with unless there is massive increases in both road and rail building. Given it seems to take decades to do this, perhaps we should start doing this now, rather than cut back on investments as we are doing now.
I suggest people look at everything they currently do, be it go down to Bournemouth on a sunny afternoon, go to a theme park, go and watch your favourite football team etc, and think what it would be like if an extra 25% went there as well.

45. At 1:06pm on 13 Jul 2010, BaldLea wrote:
Yes. If the NIMBY's and "already rich" let people build on more greenfield land.

Why should the majority of the population be shoehorned into grotty cities so that the rich can enjoy (and prosper from) the countryside? I don't buy the argument that the countryside is there for everyone to enjoy. We have built on a tiny percentage of our land and could stil build more without doing much damage.

Developers these days build microscopic houses and charge a fortune for them. Yet another example of how the haves are repressing the have-nots. Don't worry about your dirty, noisy crowded towns though proles - you can have a picnic in the countryside once a month to make up for it.

************************************************************************
Oh dear, this is rather depressing isn't it?

Socialism gone bad at its height - all the way to communism I think - and look how those experiments ended up.

Absolutely not and this is why the migration of people must stop. We are an Island and if we cannot feed ourselves in terms of world problems then the population will starve. No more outside immigration with immediate effect from anywhere and we must start to see migration stop. We cannot keep building and consuming or taking all the worlds problems nor can we pay an increasing benefits bill. If Cameron has any sense at all, this is where he tells the European Union to poke any regulations about what we can and cannot do.

"
25. At 12:39pm on 13 Jul 2010, rustle wrote:

If China can thrive with a population of 1,500,000,000 why shouldn't Britain cope with a piddly 78,000,000.
"

China is a massive country. It is less densely population than the UK. I don't see too many UK residents wishing to emigrate to communist China, I wonder why? Maybe because of the lack of freedom, poor human rights, exploitation, poverty, etc. As for a "piddly 78,000,000" extra in the UK, where exactly should we build these two extra Greater London's? Perhaps, on the Farmland which cannot support the population we already have?

I'm a baby-boomer born in 1949. The population surge that came with me will be gone shortly after 2049.

Can anyone remember the the three day week of 1974?

In the four years that followed the birth rate in this country fell by 25%, in some countries (Germany, Italy, Spain) it fell even further by 50%.

It has been written by some think tank that the optimum population of this country should be 30 Million. That would not mean getting rid of unnecessary people (the old, unemployed, unqualified etc) but of a lot of other people as well.

If we had a population of 30 Million we would no longer need as many doctors, nurses, teachers, police, firemen, social workers, politicians etc. All the people who act for and with the public.

The big question is what work will the increased population do?

The biggest provider of employment in this country is government and government departments eg NHS.

With a bigger population the amount spent by government would have to increase which means it would be taken from a proportionally smaller private sector.

And what about housing? We cannot afford housing as it stands, let alone with another 20 million! Who would build the housing and how would it be paid for.

I do not think this growth in the population will occur. Without adequate housing and employment the population will control itself.

Those that think Britain is great really have no idea what quality of life is like. A land with little sense of community, where few people know their neighbour, where many work long hours and just get drunk for the rest of them, where parents are having children they don't want to ever have to bother with once they are born, this is not great and it is the total opposite of quality of life.

And yes, we can actually have quality of life if we have a lower population. With population rise comes rises in crime and health problems, and that's just a start.

Governments should not be funding any children, but if they are too scared of losing votes then they should at least just help fund the 1st child, after that it should be entirely up to the parents to pay for their brood. Why should I pay for other people's kids? (and no, they won't pay my pension, blah, blah, blah, and they may be my doctor but then if that's the job they've chosen they'll be getting paid to do it!).

51. At 1:08pm on 13 Jul 2010, Sepenenre wrote:
It's ridiculous to even think this.

The country is already full as it is.

Time to ewmigrate.

----

Population increase is a global phenomenom.

Where are you going to go - the moon?

No it cannot sustain this growth and if if it does manage to do so, quality of life will be severely reduced for everyone.
It's not only Britain, but the planet as a whole.
It cannot sustain this huge population boom that is engulfing the earth.
Nobody has the courage to stand up and deal with the issues of over population and how to deal with it.
They cite human rights and the preciousness of life as the prominent reasons. How ironic.
Think about the coming wars and slaughter of millions of precious human lives when we have to kill each other for food, water and land to live on... I choose not to bring children into this world due to this building storm.

Looking at this from purely an infrastructure point of view, the answer is definitely no. I mean we have places in the UK with hose pipe bans already this year.

I think that it was a bad move opening the doors to Europe as it was obvious from the outset that the migration would be towards the UK and not away from it. The standard of living in the UK is bound to attract migrant workers in. This door needs to be shut right now, together with the tightening up on asylum seekers too.

It seems the only time we are allowed to be patriotic these days is during a football match, which is sad. If I speak out on issues like immigration I am accused of being racist. I love this country and am proud to say that I am British. The trouble is that my patience is being tested to the limit.

The door should have been closed decades ago. Now it is to late.
The UK is an Island, it can NOT cope.

Shut the blasted door.

Population is regulated naturally by the availability of food.

Every species population grows or shrinks dependant on the availability of its food supply.

Man is no different.

We have a cultural meme that tells us we are producing food to support our population,,, when it is in fact fueling our population growth.

You do not put fuel on a fire to put it out !!

As long as we have the cultural meme telling us we need to grow more and more food because of our growing population,, ( eg GM will save us ),, our populations will grow and grow,,,

UNTIL we wake up to this delusion that we are outside of nature we have no hope.
The biggest threat to mankind is our population, it is a matter of national and global importance, and should be treated as NO.1. The terrorism threat, global warming, the fight against drugs, EVERYTHING is a distraction from the real root cause of the problem,,
and the root of the problem is our TOTAL control of our food supply,

and the 'total' agricultural experiment we started 10k years ago does NOT work, and has never worked, we have just been blinded by memes.

This way of life does not work, fact, just because it hasnt collpased yet, doesnt mean that it is working.

If you jump off a cliff, you do not succeed at being able to 'fly',, you are just falling, but you have not hit the ground yet !

As soon as you study outside of a 'total' agricultural culture, it becomes clear what the problem is.

We NEED to RELAX our complete control over our food supply, stop it being 'totally' controlled, and let nature play a part.

But will our culture let go of its dellusion of dominion of the world ? my guess is NO, it will try harder and harder to control everything, with new programmes to try to stop resultant effects without tackling the core problem, which in turn will just make things worse and worse.
Our cultural belief is locking us into a catch 22 situation with its illusional self grandure.

Man is not made from wishes and fairy tales,, man is made from mans FOOD.

So think again when you are next in your local supermarket and see rows and rows of food laid out for you to see, as far as you can see, and consider its all being turned into more of mankind.

the words of Enoch Powell must be haunting the goverments both past and present , what he forecast is becoming a reality,
we ignored the warnings , while some countries acted to save themselves, its a pitty we did not do the same ,
now there must bea serious debate on send foreign criminals back to their country of origin to serve their sentence

Comment 5.
you got it spot on. The whole of the UK is in serious trouble as it is with immigration. Where i stay in Scotland we have lost thousands of acres of countryside and farms for houses, Tescos, Asda and schools. It is no joke! No government will do anything about it because they can't. As you all should remember Mr Blair and his labour cronies signed away our rights on immigration, All they can stop now is immigration from outside the EU. But they won't sort that out either because they are to scared, No political party has the bottle to stand up and do something about it, When they do it will be to late. By then the UK will be over crowded with no countryside just houses.

//30. At 12:47pm on 13 Jul 2010, AM wrote:
Do you know what? This subject is so boring! So the UK population will reach 78m by 2051 so what! Who cares? //

Anyone who cares about quality of life and preservation of the environment certainly should care, and generally does.

//Quite frankly it crap journalism like this stirring up panic, hatred and fear that makes me so angry.

What should can the government do….well, let’s all become right wing fascist and tell anyone to go home. Restrict people having babies….blar blar blar. Oh, I’ve fallen asleep//

This is the BBC pointing out Inconvenient Truths. It's not crap journalism.

And remember - immigration is the ultimate right wing policy. Cheap labour, high unemployment, negative effects on the environment and low-income people....that's what immigration means, and that's why big biz loves it.

"#20. At 12:37pm on 13 Jul 2010, Scamandrius wrote:
1. At 12:05pm on 13 Jul 2010, adelaide wrote:
A more diverse population has done nothing positive for the UK. We have more gun and knife crime and more unhappiness than ever. We have a very segregated society.

----

Speak for yourself, or rather keep speaking for the Mail.

Britain is Brilliant and will continue to be so.

By the way to all those who claim that multi-culturalism has failed - what effort did you ever make personally to intergrate? What effort did you make to make it a succsess for yourselves.

Nothing?

Thought so.

______________________________________________________________________

I'm not sure the onus is on the majority indeginous population to 'integrate'. Perhaps they are wondering when exactly their political leaders sold them down the river and embarked on this 'multicultural' policy without ever actually checking it was what the population wanted?

24. At 12:39pm on 13 Jul 2010, Fred Schuhmacher wrote:
There's a whole section of the population, poorly educated, opinionated, assume they're always right, they're usually wrong, loud, quick to hit out or take offence, uncultured, where I'd say we can't cope with 100 of them. And I don't mean immigrants.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am guessing you are referring to Guardian readers?

I know what you mean. I can't stand them either!

No UK cannot cope with 78m if a decent quality of life is wanted. It can't cope with the population now - isn't that obvious?