Should Asbos be scrapped?

The problem is that the Asbo is seen as a badge of honour. All that happens is that they individual gets a this an nothing else. Maybe they should dish out a punishment at the same time, such as picking up litter or removing graffiti. I'm sure these punishments couldn't be seen as offending their Human Rights(TM) and they also give back to community.

The second time they step out of line means a short stay at a young offenders institute (along with litter collection) then a longer one etc.

"By coming together, and only by coming together, we can win this battle"

Uh-oh, looks like the Big Society expects us to face up to violent antisocial types.

If it's not working, scrap it by all means, but make sure there's something substantial to replace it.

So far the ConDems seem determined to throw out all sorts of policies without actually replacing them with anything worthwhile.

All of us have known that asbo`s were a joke and have been seen by the offender as a badge of honour on obtaining one. I have known people that punch the air when they have received the badge unable to beleive their luck. I personally don`t want to stand up to anyone, I should`nt have too, leave it to the authorities,...anybody there?

I think this is a good idea, giving an identity to the little oiks that terrorise our streets only makes them more determined. Maybe public humiliation could be used for repeat offenders, make them wear a dress and clean up their mess perhaps.

I agree, I don't think ASBOs do a lot for law and order - in fact from what I hear they have almost become like a badge of honour in certain circles.

If ASBOs do not work the key is to understand why. It is not a good reason to scrap them.

The problem in many cases is that the ASBO on an under 18 does not embrace the young persons parents. For those who are older they fail to manage the individual through tagging or implementing actions to change behaviour like community service orders.

This coalition deserve an ASBO, for dismantling the welfare state.

Yes. But not before they are served on the rabble currently infesting Downing Street SW1.

Should Asbos be scrapped?

I know that the tabloids constantly deride them as being a joke, but I'd like to see some statistics for myself before we just bin them off.

It seems that the coalition seems to be condemning Labour policies as failing (eg. 24 hour drinking)rather the faults within the society that those policies were aimed at addressing.

Until a government can come up with a policy that makes society examine its own own expectations, aspirations and behaviours then I can't see issues like binge drinking or anti-social behaviour improving.

Governments can only acheive so much - Society itself must be willing to change, and at the moment i can't see any evidence that it wants to.

I think what Theresa May has missed is that ASBOs were set up to deal with a section of society that were not being dealt with at all by the law previously. I'm waiting for the first post on HYS (it wont be long) that blames '13 years of Labour rule' for current anti-social behaviour...but this problem has been festering and growing for DECADES and a number of different govts. The tories did little or nothing to address this problematic section of society through the 80s and allowed it to grow, so Labour made an attempt to deal with it in the form of ASBOs. They may not have solved the problem, but at least they made some sort of attempt which helped curtail the behaviour to some extent. In my opinion, ASBOs should not be scrapped but should be improved on to make them more effective.

In my opinion, the Tories have got it right, "We need to make anti-social behaviour what it once was - abnormal and something to stand up to... rather than frequent and tolerated."

But they've a lot to roll back from the Labour years and I think it will be far from easy. It's not going to be easy for young people to give up their 'I'm invulnerable' approach and even more for their parents to give up their 'My child never does wrong'. And even then folk will have to regain their courage.

The courts will have to have their say first.

It's a long haul.

I'm reminded of one of those rear-window stickers ... "Get a Teenager now. While they still know everything."

I always thought the ASBO was pointless and ineffective so I'd welcome this decision.

Perhaps they should come to an end as they have'nt really worked, those that have consistantly received them have reacted as if they are sweeties being handed out so perhaps something that means you have done wrong and you must pay the penalty should be brought into force.
Something seems to be missing in society its quite sad that no one has time for each other and nobody really cares. It seems to have become a that worse in the last fifteen years.

What other measures can be introduced to cut anti-social behaviour?

How about a policeman on the street?

'More than half of Asbos in England and Wales were breached in 2008, Home Office figures show.'

The phrasing of which suggests that around halfish were successful.

Which is considerably higher than the prison reoffending rates.

Bearing in mind there aren't enough places to drastically increase the number of custodial sentences, and not enough money to build new prisons, the Tories will need something to replace asbos if they are scrapped.

Absolutely. They have turned out to be a joke and yes...a badge of honour in the lower echelons of our society. Just fine the hell out of the parents and lock em up!

Of Course ASBOs should be scrapped. As a badge of status, even honour, amongst those who received them, I believe they were a social(ist) experiment doomed to failure. In their place should be - yes, PUNISHMENT - of an unpleasant variety, so as to deter potential offenders. But, given that 'society' is to blame for all our ills, I do not see this happening and, as in your recent question about the perpetrators and victims of crime, the latter will remain the loser. Knowledge of right from wrong is not related to one's financial circumstances, so please stop blaming 'society' or 'the causes of crime' and bring back individual responsibility or is that really asking too much.

Yes. They were one of the many faces of facism under the previous government. Let's have proper justice and not allow oursleves to be at the mercy of the whims of state-empowered officials.

Her statement sends a signal to me that we will be even softer on crime and that victims will be even less of a priority. So what will replace Asbos. Rehabilitative and restorative justice is a great idea, but what is the punishment? today, scentences in the community are a joke, fines doled out by magistrates by many are payed out of benefits that come from the taxpayer.

I'm not out for blood - but punishment MUST be seen to fit the crime.

Yes, they should be scrapped. They never really did anything and were seen as a badge of honour by simple types.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

2. At 2:56pm on 28 Jul 2010, RedandYellowandGreennotBlue wrote:
"By coming together, and only by coming together, we can win this battle"

Uh-oh, looks like the Big Society expects us to face up to violent antisocial types.

If it's not working, scrap it by all means, but make sure there's something substantial to replace it.

So far the ConDems seem determined to throw out all sorts of policies without actually replacing them with anything worthwhile.
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Thats because most of these policies weren't needed in the first place. Labour introduced all these silly ideas when laws already existed.

Should Asbos be scrapped? Yes and replaced with prison sentences and/or national service in Afghanistan.

ASBOS are just like campaign medals to these delinquents, they are to be collected and shown off with pride and the orders broken at every opportunity.

During the ASBO item this afternoon; the Senior Police Officer said that 'People should get to know and speak with their local police officers';the chance would be a fine thing.
I live in Sleaford, a Market Town in Lincolnshire. When we first arrived here in the '70s, their was a fully operational, fully staffed Police Station open 24hrs a day. During the last 40 years the town has at least tripled in size!
We now have a police station open for 3hrs on 2 days per week; the only 'resident police officers' are the FACELESS Serious Crime Unit.
If I want to report an unlawful event, I have to 'phone Grantham who normally refer me to Police HQ in Lincoln whih is 17 miles away.
I WOULD LOVE TO GET TO KNOW MY POLICE OFFICERS; the only trouble is we don't have any and they would be totally disinterested if I did.

7. At 3:07pm on 28 Jul 2010, Beige Rage wrote:
This coalition deserve an ASBO, for dismantling the welfare state.

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8. At 3:07pm on 28 Jul 2010, mortice rigger wrote:
Yes. But not before they are served on the rabble currently infesting Downing Street SW1
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Do you not think we suffered enough under the nuLIEbour monsters? 13 years for gods sake!!

I think we have earnt a break from the labour criminals which brought Britain to its knees. Time for someone else to have a go. Stop being sore losers just because your wishy washy, pink, fluffy friends in nuliebour got booted out of government due to their own ineptitude and mis-management.

I can't see that they have suggested anything to take the place of ASBO's. Obviously not prison, because they want to reduce prison numbers, can't be dealt with by police because they are making cuts there too.

Looks like we will all have to patrol the streets ourselvse wearing body armour and carrying baseball bats just to protect ourselves.

Oh what joy.

If the ASBOs are scrapped I would like to know what will replace them. Ms May says "We need a complete change in emphasis, with people and communities working together to stop bad behaviour escalating." Erm, does she think I am going to confront those yobs? Or maybe we are to form some kind of vigilante groups?
These young people have no respect for anyone, look to the parents in some cases, make them responsible for their under-age ill-behaved offspring.

I was involved in getting an ASBO against a local yob. First there was a letter of agreement drawn up by the police where the yob agrees to behave. When that failed a long drawn out evidence collection process was begun by residents - not police - then some months later it went to the Magistrates who threw it out as the boy apologised and promised to change. He didn't. He was quite quickly arrested for theft and dealing drugs and given a community sentence and continues to terrorise everyone. I'm talking about a private gated development here not a sink estate.

It's all very well to say let's get rid of ASBOs, but with what will they be replaced?
ASBO's, properly enforced, have quite a lot going for them. They provide magistrates with a very flexible range of sanctions which allow them to devise punishments that actually fit the crime and sanctions which, in theory, should protect society from a whole range of anti-social behaviours. The problem has always been one of enforcement.
It's all very well for Theresa May to say: "We need to make anti-social behaviour what it once was - abnormal and something to stand up to..."; but who amongst us is going to be the first to stand up to that group of yobs drinking on the street corner and abusing passers by? Not Theresa, I suspect.

1. At 2:55pm on 28 Jul 2010, Richard Sweeney wrote:
The problem is that the Asbo is seen as a badge of honour.
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That is hardly a problem with the ASBO itself. The kind of person who sees it as a badge of honour will ultimately see going to jail as as the same thing, another notch on the belt in their apprenticeship of crime.
ASBOs have certainly helped to improve the quality of life for people in certain areas troubled by anti-social behaviour. They don't always work, but then there is no catch-all solution.

Yes, they certainly should be scrapped. It is like so many laws that the previous government enacted - impossible to enforce at a level that makes them workable.

It's like the fines for using mobile phones while driving. Everyone knows it makes sense but there is a huge number of irresponsible morons out there that still do it because they know there's little chance of being caught.

We need to get back to the situation when people were held responsible for their actions and made to pay for the consequences.

Responsibility and accountability, words we hear little of and too seldom see together these days.

The ASBO, like the HIP and police community support officers were daft ideas introduced by Labour. They were never going to work. They were a reaction to thuggish behaviour that cost far less than policing the streets. A misguided idea, they simply rewarded thugs with more street cred and pride.

You're no one unless you have a few ASBOS. Surprising the gov didn't give them medal ribbons to wear on their shirts.

If ASBOS are to be scrapped , one should ask in favour of what?

I suggest bringing back the stocks as a not an unreasonable deterrent for our indigenous yobs and general anti-social behaviour.

We had some awful behaviour in our town. Asbos put an and to it. The misbehaving young people were banned from certain areas and because they were the ring leaders, the groups soon dispersed. Our town centre is now quiet. This government is so bent on cost cutting that even strict measurements for misbehaviour will have to go. It is easy to say that we have to stand up to bad behaviour but what about the old and the vulnerable who are the main targets of those thugs. If their neighbours stand up for them, they get bricks through their windows or are knifed to death. It sounds alright to say that comunities need to stand up but unless those thugs know that there is no escape and that they will be caught and severely punished, will some of them think twice. Most don't care either way. I was in the US a few weeks back and read in the local paper that a young man who had burgled a house and severely injured the owner was sent to prison for 10 years! Also, in the US, any homeowner has the right to hurt or even shoot anyone who enters their home illegally. It may not be what we want but over there obviously the victim gets the sympathy unlike here where the criminal has it all his or her own way. By abolishing asbos and not immediately replacing it with something more effective than that, i.e. court and prison, a new generation of aggressive and abusive young people and criminals will have a field day because they can do what they like. This will even be more likely because there will be fewer police around to keep order.

Asbos were yet another ill-conceived, potty idea by Labour. The shaven-headed low-lifes who get them regard any piece of paper with contempt, and that's assuming their IQ is sufficient to be able to read and write.

Bring back National Service, and the birch. A good flogging will do no end of good to trouble-makers, and will save yet more paperwork. Physical punishment is the norm in the animal kingdom but, under Labour, the do-gooders and Human Rights mob, the public at large was expected to "understand" the criminal, and "sympathize" with his plight.

Let's have no more of this pussy-footing. Let's really get tough on criminals and give them the short, sharp shock treatment.

It's naive for the government to ask the general public to stand up to anti-social behaviour when have-a-go heroes so often end up being stabbed or kicked to death. With knife crime still so prevalent and happy slapping once again in the media spotlight, it's unrealistic to expect Joe Public to take risks associated with dealing with these young criminals. ASBO's clearly need to go, simply due to the fact that they are not seen as a deterrent. Give offenders a juvenile record that stays with the individual for life, restrict their ability to travel abroad, apply for credit and qualify for benefits. It's only with these sorts of controls, which surely would be seen as the deterrent that is currently lacking, that anti-social behaviour will start to decline.

Those blaming the last Labour government for anti-social behaviour need to look back a little further. It was Thatcher who stated that there was 'no such thing as society' and her government's encouragement of the 'look after number one' that sowed the seeds of the lack of respoect for others that seems prevelant today. That fact that the generation which grew up at that time are now the parents of taday's youth and have passed that attitude on speaks volumes.

Ahhh - you can't move on here for people spouting off using the old "badge of honour" argument - and that exact phrase as well - do these posters just operate on soundbites?! It was used in one page of a 2006 Youth Justice Board report referring to some very specific cases, but was the only part of that report to be pounced on by the media...and lapped up by Daily Mail readers. There is no evidence that overall ABSO's are seen as this at all.

In the most part, the activities which ASBO's relate to are NOT crimes. That is why Labour introduced them, to help deal with those cumulative incivilities which, on their own, the courts and criminal justice system were unable to deal with. It would be difficult to get any kind of meaningful conviction for, say, an 11 year old persistently swearing at passers by. Each individual instance would have to be taken to court, when in fact what we should be looking at is the cumulative impact of this behaviour over a period of time - that's what an ASBO does.

The Tories misunderstand the communitarian logic behind the original introduction of ASBO's and the ability of communities to manage their own
members. For neighbourhoods themselves to instil good behaviour was always the ideal, but the introduction of ASBO's recognised that they needed support from the law and civic agencies in order to do this.

Both Labour and the Tories are in fact reading from the same hymn sheet, it's just that this government has skipped a few hundred pages and gone straight to their favourite ditty!

ASBO should be given to those who should not be allowed out of this country to upset other counties and they should be given to the media types who do not tell the truth but what the party tells them and banks and utility companies and and ex prime ministers like Brown and Blair what as Africa ever done to this country that we send over these people to make war no do not get ride of them but put them on those who really deserve them so that others can see them and be warned. Do a Jimmy Choo one for Ms May

I certainly feel that ASBOs do not work. However, to scrap them without first replacing them with something else would be irresponsible.

2. At 2:56pm on 28 Jul 2010, RedandYellowandGreennotBlue wrote:

"By coming together, and only by coming together, we can win this battle"

Uh-oh, looks like the Big Society expects us to face up to violent antisocial types.

If it's not working, scrap it by all means, but make sure there's something substantial to replace it.

So far the ConDems seem determined to throw out all sorts of policies without actually replacing them with anything worthwhile.

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You hit the nail right on the head! Even though the ASBO is seen more as a trophy than a punishment, I don't see the ConDem's offering any kind of alternative apart from a self-service attitude. Works with supermarkets and booking holidays online, but they are seriously insulting our intelligence if they think this 'Big Society' idea is any kind of alternative. We might as well go around with torches and pitch-forks. This new government seems to be all about going backwards.

I don't understand why they can't keep the current idea in place (without this stupid jazzed-up name of ASBO of course) and change the procedure so that police don't have so much case-by-case paperwork and filing to do, part of the reason there is antisocial behaviour is because the police cannot be bothered to cross every 't' and dot every 'i'.

They are a excuse for not enforcing the law.
Commit a few dozen or even hundreds of offences and you get a "asbo" letter asking you to stop it ?
I have a better idea, enforce the Law on day 1, they break it you jail them.
Put the responsibility back in to our society.

No, in fact extend them to apply to anyone who uses the phrase 'badge of honour' on HYS

11. At 3:13pm on 28 Jul 2010, Often Rejected wrote:
In my opinion, the Tories have got it right, "We need to make anti-social behaviour what it once was - abnormal and something to stand up to... rather than frequent and tolerated."

But they've a lot to roll back from the Labour years and I think it will be far from easy.
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And another daily wail myth is peddeled on HYS.

I was born in 1949, the year the novel 'Brighton Rock' was published. Then if a young person didn't like the look of you they would take off your ear with a cut-throat razor.

People who have received ASBO's previously had no action taken against them except caution after caution after caution.

If the toree's REALLY want to do some thing then expand electronic tagging. Something we half-heartedly tried and seemed to have given up on. The recent example in the USA of an actress fitted with an alcohol tag who had a $100,000 fine imposed when she had one drink is one example of what we should be doing.

The trouble is ALL politicians talk tough about 'anti-social' behaviour but will do nothing about it that costs money. So no probation, no fines, no court appearances and certainly no prison.

I would certainly like to see what they plan to do in it's place.

YES and bring back the birch and approved schools, a small percentage of children are out of control and making a lot of peoples lives a misery.

All these people who think you can cure the problem with kindness should be made to live on these estates as ordinary citizens without there personal protection for at least a month and then see what they have to say.

The trouble with parliament today is that there are no ordinary people as MPs, how can you go to university then work for one of the political parties then be elected an MP and know any thing about life as lived by most of us, hug a hoody Cameron is a prime example

The only Asbo I hear about was given to an old crazy lady, who made her neighbours life hell over a few years ? She should have been orderd and given treatment by a mental health care professional, not put into the legal system. What a waste of our money. Criminals see them as some kind of joke?{a cheap system } of control.

4. At 3:00pm on 28 Jul 2010, Mookas44 wrote:

"I think this is a good idea, giving an identity to the little oiks that terrorise our streets only makes them more determined. Maybe public humiliation could be used for repeat offenders, make them wear a dress and clean up their mess perhaps"

Please! We can't even get women to wear dresses anymore. Now you want it to be viewed as a form of punishment?

Bring back foot patrols in the neighborhoods. That would achieve three things.

#1). It would bring a strong police presence into the neighborhoods.

#2). It would allow the Police to get to personally know those inhabitants and do a little "on the spot" mentoring when it it needed.

#3). It would also allow the Police to establish a good relationship with the people of the neighborhoods.

As it stands now, the Police are just viewed as people who drive around all day long, thinking of how they will spend their next paycheck, and waiting to be called to a problem. How rewarding is that to them?

What a wasted opportunity.

The power to issue ASBOs has without doubt been abused, certainly in my area. Well known, severely mentally ill people have been issued with ASBOs with no corresponding support from the authorities to help them stay within the law. They criminalise some very vulnerable people. I have no doubt that there are some people whose anti-social behaviour needs to be tackled in this way but the use of ASBOs has become indiscriminate and an easy option for those in power. The fact that the've been issued to animals such as pigs kind of proves my point.

I don't think everyone should believe what is in the media. I have worked in a number of roles regarding young offenders, and I found ASBOs to be a good form of punishment. So what if half are breached? That's partly what the police want because finally they can lock the offender up, whereas before they wouldn't have had the power to do so because of technalties with the CPS. Maybe some modification would be welcomed, but I don't think scrapping them is the best idea.

The Police Force is about to suffer huge cuts, which will undoubtedly result in fewer police on the streets.
While there are many problems associated with ASBOs, they have been successful in many instances, particularly with nuisance neighbours, and harassment cases that take up a huge amount of police time.
This Austerity era inevitably means painful financial cuts in services, but let's hope that the government can be smart into the bargain.
How about refining ASBOs based on evidence?

ASBO's aren't really the problems, it's that they weren't often being properly reinforced and too many trouble makers ended up seeing them as a status symbol. If it wasn't for Labours softly softly approach to the youth crime problem and the excessively liberal approach to reinforcing them they might have actually worked.

I have to agree with Theresa May on this one, it's time we stood up to anti social behaviour full on and try to make it something that's shameful rather then something that's a source of pride among the trouble making inclined.

ASBOS need to be applied appropriately. For example, British Gas made operating profits of £585m for the first half of 2010, up 98% on the same period last year, and its parent company Centrica, also saw a big increase in profits, up 65% to £1.56bn. Surely this is more inline with totally anti social behaviour, but no, instead we are meant to celebrate their criminal success at our expense!! No wonder the whole world is bonkers and people lose their ability to take it seriously! In a real democracy, these profits would be put straight into the pot to pay off the national debt! Instead, the most antisocial class of all, capitalists, get away with it. Recession, what recession!

We can safely say ASBO's will be gone, Politicians mute an idea and before long it is policy.

But what to replace them?

I propose public floggings on the town hall steps for these OIKS!

And if you want someone to do it, I Volunteer.

Probably a tad over the top, but the sentiment remains, shame them make them work for the community for free, cleaning up, weeding flowerbeds in public parks etc... open some discipline centers where they have to attend on a Saturday or Sunday and take part in physical exercise and drill.

Oh, I get it!

Reduce Police numbers and getn those in poor areas involved in "The Big Society" so they have to deal with thugs themselves, whilst the Tory and newly converted Tories (from the Lib-Judas party)live in nice middle class areas away from the hoi-polloi.

Splendid.

Asbos do not work as young offenders who receive them are that cockey that they are not 'bothered' about having one. The second problem is that they are sometimes awarded to the wrong people, such as the story recently about the pet shop owner selling a goldfish to an underage person. 1. It was the previous labour government's doing and 2. I think the young child was intelligent enough to know not to eat the goldfish or something like that. Good luck to the new government for doing something about them. Instead of giving young people an asbo, get them in jail or working for the community and name and shame them.

I just wish the Government would take a breath and considering the impact of its various actions. At the moment they are running around like 'a Bull in a China shop', scrapping everything. Some decisions they are making are sensible, but a lot aren't.
In Sheffield their decision to scrape a grant to Forgemasters has not gone down well, particularly as without it the large castings which the grant/loan would have allowed for the nuclear industry, will now need to be done abroad. I suspect both the lib dems and Tories will be severely punished at the next election, although to be fair the Tories haven't any seats in Sheffield to lose, but the Lib Dems have.

what is this govt trying to do turn the clock back to the last time they were in power then continue from there eradicating all of the labour policies in between. That bloke that got killed in front of his grandaughter and the youths got 4 years each and we get told to go easy on them because they are young . what a load of hogwash . any youth that comes near me in future best be asking for directions , its insulting to the older people. then cameron says 1940 was our finest hour . it seems the war isnt over yet

The right decision for the wrong reasons. The tories want to cut costs from the working class. The asbo was only ever a control to be exerted over tenants, not house owners.
Just another distancing by the gang at Westminster from us out here in the real world. Lets get rid of the whole lot of them.

ASBOs are useless because they are a load of toothless and unenforceable paperwork - typical of Labour efforts. The Police should be allowed to enforce the law effectively and released from the excessive burden of paperwork that wastes hours of their time on every arrest, and criminals' rights should be made secondary to those of the public to be free of their antics. Once someone is convicted and sent to prison, the prison they go to should be a spartan dump in which they have no quality of life and cannot mix much to learn new thieving skills, so it would not cost so much to run and they would seek to avoid it. Human rights are important, but the pendulum has swung too far - criminals should not be treated nicely.

As many others have said - what will happen instead?

There has to be an instead.

Should Asbos be scrapped?

In my opinion , no.

I saw a car recycling machine on a tv program last night, munching cars into bits, it seems to me this machine could be more useful in scrapping ASBOees. If I was contracted to scap ASBOees I would call my company Soylent Green.

Not very PC but why the hell, don't we accept that wrongdoing can only be enforced if the wrongdoers are punished, this is their greatest fear. Try everything else first by all means, but in the end imprisonment should be available as a last resort no matter what the cost. It is the only fear that some people have which make them desist from a life of criminality.

Surely getting rid of the Asbos is signalling that the government is prepared to tolerate anti-social behaviour, especially if you combine it with the government’s plans to send fewer people to prison. So these anti-social people will be allowed to run riot and terrorise the rest of us who respect others.

My understanding is that the ASBO was a tool of last resort - something to be used when other measures (like rehabilitation ie probation orders) have failed. If a community was complaining about an ongoing issue involving harassment or intimidation then they would be complaining in order to have something done. The ASBO is a tool which can be used to give a person or community respite from the problems with person/s responsible having the risk or arrest and court if breached. If this is the case then surely the community is already coming together and standing up and doing something - the ASBO could provide reassurance that something would be done if breached.
It is worth also noting that an ASBO can also be applied for by the local council and registered social landlords so any decision would also impact on tools and powers available to all agencies.
It would be more interesting and beneficial if the Home Office released figures on how effective rehabilitation orders were - how many were complied, breached and how many people who received them still went on to offend. Likewise how many court fines were handed out and paid - my guess would be not many.
In relation to ASBO breaches, does a breach mean that the ASBO has failed? It would again be interesting to see firstly how many prohibitions an ASBO contains - if there are several prohibitions and one has been breached could you not argue that the others have been effective? Although breached has the lives of the residents improved, has the incidents reported reduced?
As to imprisonment, what other sentences have been given (and probably breached) before imprisonment was the only option left?
I would question how much research has actually been done and has the community at any point been consulted? Has the Home Office actually spoken to anyone within an area of high anti-social behaviour and asked for the public's opinion?
"Mrs May said: "Anti-social behaviour still blights lives, wrecks communities and provides a pathway to criminality.
Punishments should be "rehabilitative and restorative", rather than "criminalising", she argued."
Surely it's time for people to take responsibility for their own actions, rehabilitation where appropriate and enforcement where appropriate.

Re the "Badge of honour" comments, this very soon wears off, especially when they do actually stick to the exclusion areas or are getting locked up.

Someone's already made a good point about the whole 'badge of honour' argument that's worth repeating-

Any criminal that wears an ASBO as a 'badge of honour' will also wear such a badge for being sent to prison and any other such punishment you can think of. Some criminal elements of society just aren't deterred by any form of punishment, and they'll simply tattoo on themselves as one of their many 'achievements'.

The point is, it does work for some people, so this new govt would be better off working out ways of improving it rather than scrapping it altogether, at least until they can come up with a better idea for dealing with these sections of society.

Just like with alcohol, drugs, public services and generally everything; the Govt. will be just as useless with regards to ASBOs and continue to do so thinking they're doing 'what is best' for the country.

Why not ask us what is best for us?

Yep! Kids are wearing them like badges.

Community service is the correct punishment - graffiti removal, sweeping the streets, painting public buildings, helping old people, working for charities, cleaning the drains.

And if they don't turn up or they laze about - 4 weeks hard labour on Dartmoor.

7. At 3:07pm on 28 Jul 2010, Beige Rage wrote:
This coalition deserve an ASBO, for dismantling the welfare state.

What a ridiculous comment. You presumably didn't notice the Labour Party bankrupting this country over 13 years.

When interviewing guests about asbo's could the BBC at least pick people that have the social awareness not to chew gum whilst giving an interview - it does bring the persons ability to discuss the issue into doubt.

It was a ridiculous idea, born out of neo-Liberal idealism, and should be scrapped.
One little thug I know locally was given an ASBO after making the lives of people on a local estate utterly miserable for months, and proceeded to cut and paste every mention of it from the local newspaper websites and stick it all over his Bebo profile. He was absolutely delighted with it as an endorsement of the "badman" reputation he basically offends solely to maintain.
We need a three strikes rule. First offence is a warning, second offence is some hard community service and a painful fine for the parents, third offence is 5 years in prison. No exceptions. Anyone stupid / determined enough to get as far as the jail option deserves to be locked up. People like this have no place in society.

Get rid of them, you mean let them do what they want on the streets? Another fine example of why Cameron should call a General election ASAP. Considering that a third of people were turned away from the polling station at the last General election, it's only fair.

Well ASBO'S are good in theory but have to be followed all the way to make sure they are being adhered to, and should involve parents or gardians alike to take responsability for the young offender in their care,ie. with the help of social services from a young age how to recognise the signs and make them aware that it will be them that will have to pay in the end for not bringing up children to be responsable youths into adulthood.

I am more concerned about the section 59 powers (colloquially known as ASBOs) the police have to issue a warning and then if similar activity is observed within a year to impound a vehicle. No evidence required and no appeals procedure.

Give the Asbo - but with the first comes one week loss of all benefits. If you reoffend, then you lose two weeks etc. After 4 weeks, you go to jail. Hit these louts where it hurts - their pockets. That's the only way you'll get through to them.

38. At 4:18pm on 28 Jul 2010, Chris wrote:

In the most part, the activities which ASBO's relate to are NOT crimes. That is why Labour introduced them, to help deal with those cumulative incivilities which, on their own, the courts and criminal justice system were unable to deal with.
=========================================

MUPPET.

1st time I've heard of positive anti-social criminality.

MOST ASBOs are actually based upon CONSTANTLY RECORDED EVIDENCE of MAINLY criminal acts, of which the police are NOT around to witness and of which many people feel vulnerable and just dont want to get involved in and themselves possibly become a victim.

MOST of the victims, are forced to endure MONTHS of INTIMIDATION and aggression and destructive behaviour to property (please note: INTIMIDATION is also a CRIME as is threatening behaviour and destruction of property). Basically, the evidence of 4 or 7 hooligans, is of greater legal validation than 1 or 2 victims.

We are not talking about someone making loud noises during sex, or just playing loud music.

ASBOs are pointless in the reality that offenders have ALREADY received NUMEROUS/MULTIPLE warnings, including warnings of prospective punishment and including warnings of prospective punishemnt via another warning, which is basically just another warning just called an ASBO. Hence WHAT is the point in setting up yet another "official" warning when so far ALL THE EVIDENCE PROVIDED has ALREADY PROVEN its TOTAL INVALIDITY or WORTH/VALUE.

ASBOs basically resulted via INCOMPETANT GOVERNMENT of NO ideas facilitated/assisted by PC liberalists, often with christian "turn the other cheak" beliefs and implemented the policy basically just to show they were doing something in an attempt to APPEASE an angry public resulting in votes.

By the same reasoning as used for introducing ASBOs we might as well build the olympic village and stadium with sand a foot in front of where the tide is out at its furthest.

Yes, ASBOs are a waste of time and are seen as a badge of honour by some thugs. I remember Michael Howard when he was Home Secretary saying "prison works" and it still works today, the trouble is that some people in this government don't agree with that. But I still think Michael Howard was right.

THe problem with ASBOs is that the tory press have hated them and have done everything to undermine them.

People on the ground that actually have to deal with problems like ASBOs - though they often think that they have been used inappropriately.

I am a little worried that in the Tory haste to throw out everything they opposed simply because they were often a useless opposition that they also get rid of something that works.

Oh, and the idea that ASBOs are worn as a badge of honour is thought to be a media generated myth along with EU straight bananas. If people thought having an ASBO was so wonderful, why does everyone who gets one try and appeal it?

"What other measures can be introduced to cut anti-social behaviour?
How about a policeman on the street?"

25% less money for the Police makes that seem doubtful.

"So far the ConDems seem determined to throw out all sorts of policies without actually replacing them with anything worthwhile."

Surely the inevitable sign of an ideology that promotes 'small' government. DIY (because the government won't do it for you).

Think it shows which part of the coalition is driving...

"18. At 3:30pm on 28 Jul 2010, Jonathan Davies wrote:
Yes. They were one of the many faces of facism under the previous government. Let's have proper justice and not allow oursleves to be at the mercy of the whims of state-empowered officials."

Never having come across the "facist" ideology, I can't say whether you're right or not on that point, but "proper justice" is about a lot more than not being subject to arbitrary state power, it's about not being subject to arbitrary actions by other individuals in society. Power is the ability to make people do something they would not otherwise do, and for all that "civil libertarians" bleat about excessive state power, the reality is that these hooligans have far greater non-legal power than state officials could hope to hold, and this should be seen as a "civil rights" issue in itself.

New Labour (and no I didn't vote for them) to their credit did introduce many measures to restore the balance of justice to favour the victim of crime, rather than the criminal, and the introduction of ASBOs was an attempt at this. By using the "balance of probability" standards of civil offences rather than the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard of criminal courts, ASBOs make it harder for people who routinely make life miserable for others to wriggle free of public censure. For all their failings (e.g. being regarded as a "badge of honour") I hope the ConDems realise that ASBOs were intended fill a gap, and if they remove them, have something realistic and satisfactory to put in their place.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The problem with ASBO's that they can be applied to people without warning and are used by councils as threats. My sister who lives in Lancashire was advised by her local council that if her behavour continued then they would apply for an ASBO. In the opening letter there were reference to what behavour it was nor how to appeal. It took our mother and family solicitor to find out what it was. As it turned out the council had made a mistake and it was her neigbour not her....

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Of course they should be scrapped.

May I suggest an alternative method of dealing with these louts.

Simple - bring back the birch!

My grandmother would say "Bring back birching." I don't think we could do that , but ASBOs could be replaced with some kind of very public community service carried out in the evenings and at weekends. The offending individuals could be required to continue such service until they change their behaviour. Perhaps we could take away their mobile phones and internet access as well.

ASBOs should be scrapped, they are nothing more than half attempts at solving crime. They don't mean anything and they actually stand in the way of punishment where it's due.

There should be a number of things which can be taken away as punishment for criminal activity...specifically government given handouts which should be a right to only LAW ABIDING UK citizens on the poverty line.

Benefits
Housing benefits
Food vouchers
tax breaks
free vehicles
free public transport travel
free kitchen appliances
free school dinners
free school trips
free TV licenses and TV's

plus other things such as
freedom to drink and smoke
freedom to gamble
passports
driving licenses



Plus there should also be a greater reward for those who live their lives as good honest people.

Better state pensions, and option to claim earlier
Better benefits
free travel
better tax free saving
priority in the NHS
other suggestions welcome!

The government needs to make crime very costly not just a risk of an asbo or imprisonment. You just can't keep supporting people who don't want to work and can't afford not to, who terrorize towns and cities, who make good people's lives a misery, who spend their benefits on drink and fags, and get free school dinners from the state and then go and take their kids to disney land.

· 62. At 5:01pm on 28 Jul 2010, BBC_HaveYourSay Host wrote:
duncaneadie tweets "the year 1215 with the signing of Magna Carta set the value system for free people not only in this country but worldwide". Do you agree? Follow Have Your Say on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBC_HaveYourSay

################

Perhaps "duncaneadie" and , "BBC_HaveYourSay Host"

Would like to tweet off to the right blog

'Asbo' sounds like a disease, can we not have something more appropriate?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The ASBO is only effective if it is monitored properly AND action taken immediately it is breached, that is what us taxpayers pay the police for, (that might surprise our constables!)
Birching had a reoffence rate of just 27.8% but the tree huggers in our society would never consider the reintroduction of that.
What will happen eventually is that people will introduce the Tony Martin approach to looking after their property.

"48. At 4:35pm on 28 Jul 2010, natasha edstrom wrote:
The power to issue ASBOs has without doubt been abused, certainly in my area. Well known, severely mentally ill people have been issued with ASBOs with no corresponding support from the authorities to help them stay within the law. They criminalise some very vulnerable people. I have no doubt that there are some people whose anti-social behaviour needs to be tackled in this way but the use of ASBOs has become indiscriminate and an easy option for those in power. The fact that the've been issued to animals such as pigs kind of proves my point."

No ASBO has been given to an animal, in the case you are thinking of, a farmer was given an ASBO for failing to keep control of his pigs, and subjecting them to "prolongued neglect". https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/4789970.stm. The world would be a better place if the people who felt compelled to comment on headlines actually read the rest of the new articles as well. As for the "vulnerable people" they supposedly victimise, well, few people are as vulnerable as the law-abiding, working majority, without social workers, charities with glossy campaign publications, headline-grabbing policy statements etc to stand up for them. ASBOs were intended to redress this balance, so the powers that be would not have their hands tied by every procedural technicality a well-paid lawyer could exploit in a full-blown criminal case, in order to set his/her smirking client free to terrorise decent people.

It's so easy to claim that because of this or that misfortune you are no longer responsible for your actions, but the fact is, it is our own decisions and actions, not our circumstances, that make us who we are, and if we don't hold people responsible for their actions, we cannot recognise them as human in any real way.

@ 37

Do you Lab types ever get bored of using that quotation totally out of concept and to mean the almost exact opposite of what Maggie intended? Or do you just parrot what someone else has told you because you think it makes you sound cool.

It's just ignorant.

Why do we pussyfoot around with these anti-social offenders. I would think that the majority of them will go on to commit further offences. The cost to the community in council tax and police and court's time must be in the billions to repair burnt down schools, fences, broken windows, damaged buses and to clean up grafitti. I propose a ZERO TOLLERANCE attitude.

I can already hear shouts of CIVIL RIGHTS, HUMAN RIGHTS. OK, so give all kids GOOD SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR LESSONS in schools and publish clearly, in all newspapers and on all TV channels, rules of good behaviour and the type of bad behaviour that WILL NOT be tollerated and the scale of punishment that will follow. That way, no one can say that they were not warned and no one can say that their rights will be violated by a severe punishment. I am not advocating The Birch or mutilation, just hard punishment that may act as a deterrant to others or to further offences.

People who continually commit anti-social behaviour are not entitled to be treated as members of that society and have NO rights.

I propose the following scale of punishment:

Children under 10 - Fine parents £100 and make them do 50 hours community service. Subsequent ofences - fine of £250 and 100 hours community service.

Children 11 - 14 - fine parents £100 and make parents and child do 50 hours community service. Second offence - fine parents £250 and make parents and child do 100 hours community service, after child has served 6 weeks in a boot camp.Subsequent offences - finer parents £250 and make parents and child do 100 hours community service after both child and parents have served 6 weeks in separate boot camps.

Children 15 - 16 - as 11 to 14 year olds but 12 weeks boot camps for both child and parent.

Over 16s - First offence as 15 - 16 year olds but additional 3 days in stocks. Similar punishment for parents if child still living at home.

All community service should be in offenders neighbourhood, strictly enforced with harsh penaltes for skipping worktime. Offenders should be made to wear embarrasing clothing with SCUM printed on the back.

So young people are boasting about having an ASBO well scrap the ASBOs and bring back the birch, and lets see them boasting about the stripes on their backside.

#37

And the full quote:

... who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour.

It was an observation, not a statement of philosphy you bafoon!

Get rid of ASBOs
Bring back Borstals
Bring back corporal punishment - in the schools and in jail
Bring back national service or an equivalent where out of work youth can be trained a new skil
Bring back Skill Centres (Government Training Centres) - UK manufacturing is on the decline as we just don't have skilled workers in the numebrs required.

35. At 4:12pm on 28 Jul 2010, milvusvestal wrote:

The shaven-headed low-lifes...

===============

They all have shaved heads do they? Slight generalization I think.

Yes, what will replace the ASBO? This really needs to be outlined before any action is taken.

And I do hope the government aren't expecting us to confront criminals ourselves - sounds like a really good way to get stabbed!

"In this together"? I've never felt more like it's us and them in my life. Sadly I feel closer, socially, to people with ASBOs than with the Prime Minister... Even though I have no criminal record and have worked hard and payed taxes all of my adult life.

I'd make them wear something embarrassing, like a shocking pink overall with lemon flowers on. You know, something to make their mates laugh at them instead of wanting to be like them.

Where's the pride in wearing an overall like that instead of boasting about having an ASBO.

Sounds like a silly idea, I know, but how many people do you know would punch the air with glee after being given the order to wear 'the overall'.

They wouldn't even bother leaving their homes.... RESULT!

Stop pussyfooting around, reintroduce borstals run on a rigorous military régime with solitary confinement. If they continue to reoffend just make these sentences longer and longer and longer, and impose hard labour on 'em.

Another cop-out by this ConDem coalition masquerading as government.If ASBO's are seen as a'badge of honour'then they are in urgent need of re-inforcement.Any breach should be followed by a long period of hard labour.