What would encourage sensible drinking?

What a brilliant idea - you could try the same idea for other drugs. Make heroin legal but then make it so expensive that people can't afford to buy it - then, hey presto, the drug problem is solved! Back in the real world, alcohol abuse is an addiction and putting up the price will not reduce consumption by addicts, simply make the financial consequences of their addiction worse. Education, education, education is the only solution so that people do not grow up treating alcohol irresponsibly - once that behaviour has started it is too late to deal with it effectively. It was the last government which thought that all problems could be solved by hiking taxes (which is effectively what this is) - I hope we are not going to be treated to more of the same.

Yesterday evening when I saw the headline that 60% of people think binge-drinking is a British thing I had to write a blog...

https://robgreenhalgh.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/binge-drinking-is-a-british-thing/

Please read it but more importantnly I am trying to find out whether the public think alcohol packaging should have health warnings like on cigarette packets?

★★★★Please Vote in the poll on the blog above ★★★★

What would encourage sensible drinking?

It requires a sea-change in the attitude of certain sections of British society.

Personally I'm hoping we will soon get a younger generation who exibit a kind of new puritanism as a reaction against the excesses of their elders.

I do feel that increasing alcohol prices will act as a regressive tax on th poorer elements in society - maybe in future all our alcoholics will be rich.

They say it's to make alcohol less affordable but alas, people who really want to drink will find the money, even if it means cutting back elsewhere! I think it's not fair to us very moderate drinkers though, because we get penalised too! I agree something should be done, like stopping supermarkets offering cheap booze and ditch the happy hours in pubs, and the buy one get one free shots culture.

What people drink and how/when they choose to drink it is a matter of personal choice and bodies like NICE should butt out and leave us to responsible drinkers to enjoy the last pleasure open to us without nannying us into submission.

Instead of treating us like irresponsible children, perhaps they should instead be looking at the reasons why people drink and why this problem exists in the first place. Minimum pricing is not going to be the answer to this one, and once again it is the irresponsible few who are causing the sensible majority to suffer.

Restore the old traditional pub drinking hours and punish heavily anyone who misbehaves. Alcohol should only be available from Off-licences. Any purchaser of alcohol at an off licence should require a licence to do so; and the licence should be revoked if anyone consuming alcohol at that licence-holders address is guilty of a drink related offence. Similar rules to those in force in Manitoba in the mid 1970s.

The best way to control drinking and it's subsequent violence outside pubs and clubs, is to chrge the full cost of police attendance to any premises. The owners, managers would then be forced to control the level of drinking. As it is, all they want is people drinking loads of alcohol and giving them a huge profit margin.

A change in society's attitude so that it was unacceptable to get drunk in public, and harsher penalities for those that commit criminal acts when under the influence of alcohol. I frequently see minor criminal acts being committed when I am out in the evening, and it seems we as a society are prepared to tolerate it.
Minimum pricing will not work, as most of the people who I see drunk on the streets pay whatever it takes to get drunk. They go out with the sole intention of getting hammered and will do so even if it costs £50. If price was the main factor we would all be drinking at home and the centres of our towns and Cities would be deserted, which they aren't.
The problem with minimum pricing, whilst it might have a slight impact and reduce some people's drinking, it will have devastating impact on pubs, particularly in rural areas. I now struggle to find a nice country pub to go out for a quiet drink, as most have gone out of business. The only ones that survive are the expensive Gastro pubs, and the big chains which rely on food rather than drink.

Alcohol is as addictive and as damaging as heroin and government advisors recommend that it be classified as a drug. Given its addictive nature it is not possible to encourage sensible drinking and an increase in price will be followed by a proportionate increase in crime for it is primarily to obtain alcohol that assaults and thieving is carried out.

Stopping the additional benefits to alcoholics for them to buy alcolhol.

We go through the same ritual every couple of months, making suggestions on how to curb the alcoholic tendencies of a minority. The answer is staring us in the face - RAISE THE LEGAL AGE FOR DRINKING TO 21.
I have made the same comment every time the matter is raised by HYS, and I have been contributing since 2007. It must have been raised about 40-50 times, which would indicate the problem has not gone away.
Sooner or later I will be proven right.

How long is it until the British Al Capone emerges from the backlash against these fascists

I am not sure charging more would make for sensible drinkers. Poorer punters and richer supermarkets, perhaps?

Really, a battery of approaches is needed...

Yes: ensure alcohol is not routinely sold at cheaper prices than soft drinks and bottled water.

Charge for drinks related attendances at A&E.

Place a levy on establishments where the police are required to attend at a rate above an agreed norm (I am sure a level could be agreed).

Ensure rigourous enforcement of licencing laws.

Continue educating people, and ostracising drink drivers.

However, please never expect to stop us Brits drinking! We like it...

Smaller Glasses
Bottles with sealed tops.
Ring pull-less cans.

Alternatively a little self restraint might be appropriate.

Southern European countries with far lower alcohol prices have far less alcohol related issues than Northern European Countries.

Finland with one of the highest alcohol prices in the World also has the highest incidence per capita of alcoholism!

Certainly not a minimum price or a high price - doesn't work in Scandinavia and won't work here.

It is cultural and only a cultural shift will change it. It's so deep-rooted though. Other countries like France just raise the recommended maximum limits to something much higher. So long as no-one gets hurt (which sadly does happen a lot) and it doesn't cost the NHS too much, I can't see what the problem is. It's the headline 'problem' violent drinkers who cause nearly all of the trouble.

What would encourage responsible drinking? A better way of life for people, a better outlook on life and a responsible upbringing in a country that has lost most values since noone cares anymore.

Also intrusive policing from the government to find more revenue is not going to work. I will simply do what the Norwegians did in response to this kind of action - brew my own beer and wine.

Penalising the masses because of the action of the few sounds like a siege to me.

'A health watchdog is calling for a minimum price per unit of alcohol in England. Would this make you a sensible drinker?'

Excuse me, I AM a sensible drinker because I have this built in thing called common sense.

If the thinking is that we should introduce a minimum unit price for alcohol, the effect of which on problematic drinking is debatable, it ought to be introduced exclusively in pubs where undesirable drinking is more easily controlled. This would boost the pub trade and serve to make our streets more habitable after dark at the same time removing the commercial advantage that supermarkets that now enjoy.

Can someone please tell NICE, the medical profession, the government and all the other patronising paternalists that we do need people to die and that death is actually a good thing?

Death is necessary because it helps to keep the population at sustainable levels. If people didn't voluntarily do things that are dangerous to their health such as smoking, drinking, over eating, dangerous sports or other risky activities then the planet and its ever decreasing resources will soon be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of people living ever longer life spans.

Considering that the world is already over populated then the government should actively be promoting unhealthy life styles. Most unhealthy people already pay Income tax and National Insurance that entitles them to medical treatment anyway but the VAT on alcohol, smoking, etc pays for each of their respective medical treatments times over (the facts and stats are very easy to find on the Office of National Statistics website) so isn't encouraging unhealthy life styles a very good way to raise revenue for the NHS whilst bankrupt Britain is bust?

It's quite obvious the puritanical health fascists haven't thought through any of these issues at all so isn't it time that someone in government actually represented the interests of the so-called "unhealthy" and challenged this orthodox idiocy?

I am really annoyed that the cost are going to be more, so as to discourage kids from drinking. I am 43 year old sensible drinker. Since the smoking ban I only drink at home and I have a measure on my bottle so I know exactly how much I am drinking. Life is difficult enough in these times and its nice to realx in the evening with a drink. This pleasure will soon become unatainable if costs are to rise. The government need to tackle the problem of why kids drink so much and not penalise the rest of us sensible drinkers.

If people could be fined for exceeding a defined blood alcohol level IN PUBLIC (i.e. in the street) then people would immediately drink less in bars and pubs.

This is nonsense!
Some people do have a problem with alcohol, but increasing the price will not solve anything. Look at those people who smoke. Even though the price of cigarettes has almost doubled in the last 10 years smokers will always find the money for them.
This will punish those who enjoy a drink but who can do so sensibly. Are these people saying that those with money can be trusted to drink sensibly but those who are worse off cannot?
Whatever happened to personal responsibility? There are countries in Europe where alcohol is cheaper than the UK, but without the level of misuse. This problem is a cultural one, not an economic one.
Why on earth should I pay more for something I enjoy just because there are other people who misuse it?
If price is the issue, why does the House of Commons have a subsidised bar?

It's complete discrimination against the rich and well off! Why are only the poor being encouraged to stop drinking? Equality now! Stop the persecution against the rich!

The enforcement of exisitng laws against establishments that sell to underage people. Proper fines and punishments for violent offenders not a slap on the wrist.
Why should I, someone who can control myself and drink sensibly be punished with highly priced products because of those who have no self respect or self control.

A breach of my Human Rights I reckon

Once again the nanny state is trying to run our lives for us. Why should everybody be penalised just because a minority drink too much

The relaxation of licensing laws from the last Government is certainly one of the reasons contributing to problem. The "cafe culture" ,with longer opening times for bars and wider availability of cheap alcohol in supermarkets has essentially been an expensive governmental failure. The booze lobby has also been very effective in promoting their industry and keeping prices low and availability high. If the country does not take a "nanny " approach to this, I fear there will be more strains on the NHS as a whole generation of people need medical treatment with alcohol being the underlying root problem. Bring back stricter licensing,cut advertising,punish booze related crime more severely, ban alcopops and increase taxation.I've never been one to advocate strict government controls over the electorate but in this case I make an exception.

Whereas I do enjoy consuming tasty alcoholic beverages myself occasionally, I fail to see that there is any form of drinking that can be considered 'sensible'.

I say this because the only reason alcohol remains legal is because of tradition and the social convention inferred from that. It has been proven to be far more dangerous than a lot of other drugs out there, even many of the banned ones. The government likes to ignore their researchers and advisors when they give results supporting something that has been considered bad for a long while so think it should remain that way, a somewhat laisezz-faire attitude.

The only reason I drink (or should I say TAKE?) it myself is because it is easy to get hold of legally in an unlikely to be contaminated form.

If other drugs were available with such ease legally and in uncontaminated form, I would see no problem in using those.

It needs to be realised that consuming alcohol is RECREATIONAL DRUG USE.

If you consume alcohol, you are a DRUG USER or, depending on your use, a DRUG ABUSER.

When will you people in the media get off our backs about alcohol. WE ARE ADULTS!!!

So yet another nanny organisation wants to interfere in my life and dictate what I should and shouldn't do whilst at the same time imposing another stealth tax.

Beer and wine is expensive enough as it is. Those that drink themselves into oblivion will do so whatever the price so why penalsie the rest of us?

So all the rich toffs can all afford to carry on binging and the poor working class go thirsty. Great - I thought life was for enjoying - that's the premise for why I get up in the morning anyway! In my opinion, alcohol is expensive enough already, and I am not a heavy drinker. Oh well, I guess at least I'll have my health!!

So, once again, the silent majority to act within the limits of the law are punished for the relatively few who don't. I enjoy alcohol in moderation and already find it too expensive.

So basically the government is saying "poor people" are idiots and need protecting from their peasant ways, whilst the rich are sensible and can carry on drinking? Everyone across the social spectrum drinks, this is just a further tax on those who can least afford it. Look for ways to make the world a less stressful, fast-paced nightmare, with unrealistic expectations on success and permenant happiness, then people wouldn't feel the need to get so smashed to try to forget the horror of 21st Century life!

If manufacturers could no longer compete on price they would have to compete on quality. Which as a moderate drinker I would see as a good thing. There is too much awful, cheep booze on the shelves at the moment.
I would like to see, in particular, more beer with better flavour and lower alcohol content available.

Sort out the opening hours, too many places still close early or require people to be in before a certain time. To meet such entry deadlines, people often have to gulp down their drinks.
Also change pints to 500ml servings so people drink 10% less.
Both of the above sytems work fine in Europe, it's just in the UK that drinking seems to be a never ending out of control issue.

What would encourage sensible drnkng? How about enforcing the laws which already exist tot tackle it? How about stopping being gutless, making excuses andactually crack down on those who causeall the troube instead of taking the cowards way out and penalising everyone. How about taking the hardworking voter into consideration while accepting that middle-class Doctors on £120,000 a year can afford higher prices.

This is NOT about price but culture.

Blueprint for changing culture:

ENFORCE THE LAW SO PROSECUTE;

Those who sell or suppliy drink to underagers.

Those who sell drink to drunk people.

Those people who are drunk and disorderly.

Those who cause violence or trouble.

MAKE THEM PAY;

Those who are taken to hospital for drinking too much should pay the costs.

Those who cause damage while drunk should pay for it.

Those who are sick should pay to clean it up.

ALL should pay police and prosecution costs.

These laws already exist. They are there to be used in order to keep drinking in check. These latest plans are dreamt up by doctors frustrated over the governments and police's lack of willingness to really tackle what is a cultural not financial problem. Doctors who earn enough not to care.

Implement the law rigidly. Advertise you are doing this and do it and culture will change.

Stop celebrating being drunk. Make it socially unacceptable not something to be boasted about.

Teach the people in our country to have some "class".

As for Tescos calling on minimum pricing , they would, wouldn't they? Reduces their need to compete on price and if every retailer has to do t then they will make more profit on their largest sellers. Tesco care no more for our health than anyone lese. They like the sound of money.

A life where we do not have to seek solace in alcohol, where we are not worked into early graves, where we are not taxed into oblivion, where OUR human rights to live are more important than a terrorists.......

Rant over.

So the health Nazi's want to make our one remaining pleasure more expensive - just one question: Did we elect these people?

1) Advertising of alcohol should be banned. Simply because advertising of all alcoholic products today is so sophisticated; too 'glamorous' and subsidises so many popular and 'entertaining' programs?

2) Alcohol should not be depicted in British television and soaps as a 'solution' to a bad day. So relentlessly subliminal.

3) No minimum price - but raise alcohol duty paid direct to UK Treasury - but not VAT (because we all know where that goes)?

What would encourage sensible drinking?

Don't even try to encourage it, that is what. Well not until someone defines "sensible" any ways.

The old adage about "horse and drink" is entirely apposite here. Let people be themselves BUT try to work out why it is that every so often "society" goes off the rails. It normally happens when people are generally and profoundly unhappy and a "bunch" discover how to numb the pain that entails. Normally the "bunch" have it just right as long as they have the means to do whatever it takes to numb the pain.

Long suicides are always preferential to short, sharp, no mistake death. After all the rest of the world may suddenly become enlightened too.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Here we go again, first it was the smokers and now it’s the drinkers.

Firstly I am 56 and I drink at home, I like a drink, I do not get falling down, fighting drunk, abusive, stupid or aggressive so why should I be penalised for the moronic idiots that do.

Secondly this will not work, booze is to easy to make, or I can do a day trip to France or Belgium and buy what I want or I could just ask the local black market baron to get me what I want cheaply.

Trying to price people off booze is not the way to go; it only hits ordinary people who are already financially stretched.

The way to deal with this is for the Police and courts to come down like a ton of bricks on those who abuse it, 3 strikes and your out, massive fines and prison for repeat offenders who refuse to learn their lesson.

But I suspect this is more about the control seeking health fascists trying once again to assert their views and authority on the rest us, why oh why can’t these self righteous prigs just disappear and leave the rest of us alone.

It is not the job of this or any other government to instruct me on what is or is not "sensible".

If you are over 18 you have the right to drink if you so desire, and if there really is a problem with people drinking just to get completely blotto, then increasing prices is a pathetic idea which simply (attempts to) tackle symptoms and not causes. I would suggest that one way around this could be to ensure that people don't have such shoddy existances that they need to drink and fall over to escape their horrible lives. Maybe that is why we have a problem in the UK when other, far more pleasant countries don't.

Of course if you're drinking under the age of 18 that is a different issue altogether, and the simple solution there is to have much stiffer penalties for shops who allow under age people to purchase alcohol.

Great! This should bring the holier-than-though brigade out if force! As a smoker and, due to the ban, now a non-drinker all I can say is bring the restrictions on. I'm going to enjoy every minute of this thread - who goes around, comes around and now it's your turn. Deep joy.

1.make it more expensive
2.raise the age of drinking to 21 like in the USA
3.make everyone with a drink related sickness pay for their treatment rather than get the nhs to sort them out.
4. Pay a hefty fine if caught drunk and causing trouble/violence
5. Free help for people who want to be drink free again( I think that already exists)


A&E is fully of drunkard idiots waiting to be treated, on weekends in specific , wasting resources and valuable nhs staff time as if the nhs is not being snowed under already.


Enough is enough!

The simple answer is you won't change drinking culture in this country. When I entered University 10 years ago my sole purpose was to drink my way through the first year (as was everybody elses). This wasn't the result of bad up-bringing or living in a deprived area (as I didn't do either) but quite simply it was fun. It was fun to drink until I vomited. It was fun to drink until I didn't know what I was doing and it was fun to go out and spend £200 in a single night being as hedonistic as possible. There were often consequences (hospital or police station visits were an occassional occurence) but these became battle scars, a story to bring out with your peers to get respect. Looking back it was immature and dangerous but we live in such an over-protective society where youth and childhood is replaced by education, tests and health and safety that is it any wonder that young adults want the opportunity to let loose, enjoy themselves and inject a small element of danger into their lives?

Raising the price of alcohol is not the answer as people will continue to drink but at the expense of other things such as rent, food etc and we may see more debt being taken on as young people to look to maintain their lifestyle. Politicians (egged on by health campaign groups) always seem quick to tackle excessive drinking but never seem to look at what factors may drive people to drink in the first place. The heaviest drinkers I know are young professionals working in repetitive, low level office jobs in London which suggests to me that the boring repetitive nature of low paid office work may be a key driver in drinking culture but until we have a report into the causes of drinking instead of preaching about liver disease in later life to people who barely care about tomorrow we will never tackle drinking culture in the UK.

Are the idiots in charge of the asylum again?

Why the hell should I, a responsible drinker, be forced to pay more for drink because the government can't be bothered to enforce the existing laws in this country? If someone is drunk and disorderly, assaulting someone or causing vandalism whilst drunk, then send them to jail. We can't just ignore the crime and say 'it's ok, pints are more expensive so we can do nothing about the crimes'. LOCK UP THE TROUBLEMAKERS - what is so difficult about that?

Don't make me pay more for a pint because you're too lazy to make police and the courts sort out the troublemakers. Your job is to see that the law is enforced, not to financially penalise the many for the sins of the few.

Lock the scum away and they will learn their lesson and serve as an example to others. Charging everyone more will achieve nothing but make many law-abiding citizens resentful of our stupid, lazy government.

BTW - this HYS question mentions 'N I H C E' 'NICE' - as this 'agency' has so little respect from the population - it's 'use' by new government may be immediately be recognised as a cynical manipulation?

Such 'media' releases by new gov will only alienate the general population who are sooo much brighter, more intelligent and know when they are being 'softened up' before the Budget.

We had hoped that brainwashing and treating the electorate like children had left the stage with Labour?

"Personally I'm hoping we will soon get a younger generation who exibit a kind of new puritanism as a reaction against the excesses of their elders."

Why? Why not merely a sensible moderation, as practiced in France or Italy?

There should be a minimum price, no advertising and all cans, bottles should have in large print the number of units of alcohol they contain. The current situation where outlets can sell alcoholic drinks at below cost is ludicrous.

Having said that it will not be an overnight panacea to the problem. It will take years "educate" drinkers that their couple of glasses each evening has long term effects on your wellbeing. Most "problem drinkers" are not the young ones who binge a couple of nights a week but the ones who for years imbibe the bottle of wine per day or three or four shorts.

I see this as similar to the introduction of the breathalyser where at the begining friends and relatives had some sympathy with those who got caught. Now we accept that they are fools or worse.

What would encourage sensible drinking?

Education and good role-models.

Of course we first have to define what "sensible" drinking is. Using measures like alcohol consumption to still drive safely is absurd. And tackling this in isolation is also absurd.

First try to answer questions like "Why do we have such a problem?"

Peer pressure plays a part, as does advertising, but the way that our children are educated, by both schools and parents, leaves them to try out alcohol with their friends in some dark alley late at night whilst underage. So educating parents is a good first step. Knowing that they can offer small amounts of alcohol with a meal might help - if the family actually sit together for their meals. Showing the "tipping point" between a sociable drink and overindulgence might also help. And changing our drinking establishments to reflect more of a social atmosphere instead of a drinking one can't be bad. Living in Scotland I have nowhere where I can take my family to have a relaxing afternoon with a (perhaps alcoholic) drink and some relaxation. I have to purchase food in most establishments that near the atmosphere I want, or put up with sawdust and foul language (though, thankfully no smoke any more) in a drinking establishment. Abroad is a very different system, even in Eastern Europe - where I always assumed vodka drinkers were the norm. It might be the steadier weather throughout the summer, but you can sit outside with a cold drink and watch the world go by. You see many more families there - the family unit must be stronger - and even the busy thoroughfares are filled with people who are not rushing too much.

I think our entire way of life - the way we work and our lifestyle - is set toward a self-destructive mode of "live fast, die young" instead of enjoying life and slowing our whole pace. If we can learn to do that then we can maybe solve our problem.

As I understand it, the maximum 'safe' units of alcohol limit is a fairly arbitrary figure and not based on any type of reliable scientific study ( as with the '5 fruit and veg' and '8 glasses of water' a day figures!) I'm not inclined to pay any attention to some quango who pulls fantasy figures out of the air, however I digress...
I'm aware that the Scottish parliament were proposing a minimum price of around 40p a unit. Well, as far as I can see the drinks considered to be 'problem' drinks are already pricier than that. This will hit people who enjoy picking up a couple of bottles of whatever with their weekly shopping, not the people who want to go out and get blitzed - who will continue to do so whatever measures parliament decide to impose.Besides, I believe there is a piece of EU legislation that probably makes minimum pricing illegal.
It's enough to drive you to drink.....

Sadly communities are being destroyed as pubs close due to people not being able to afford to drink in them. Landlords are strictly regulated and can loose their licenses if they do not keep control of their drinkers. Today, young people consume bottles of cheap alcohol before going out and are often drunk before entering a pub or club. They consume the minimum in that pub or club but it is the pub or club that gets the blame for their behaviour. People who drink in public are regulated by their peers. People who drink at home are not. A minimum charge on supermarket alcohol is a good idea. Whilst the age limit for drinking should not be changed, maybe increasing the age when you can buy alcohol should be increased and those that buy alcohol held responsible for those they share their drink with.

Yet again another knee jerk reaction with little or no thought about what they are actually doing. There is no justification for a price increase, indeed this would simply drive people abroad for their purchases rather than waste money here in the UK.
If you want to control binge drinking, then like every other crime that takes place freely here in the UK START TO PUNISH THE OFFENDERS. No punishments, then the scumbags of this country will simply ignore you and putting the price of alcohol up will have no effect whatsoever, other than to possibly increase the crime rates as more people take to stealing to pay for it.

Alcohol consumption was higher between 1900 and 1915 than it is now (it only reduced because of the introduction of cheap cigarettes in the Great War), binge drinking is mainly carried out by the young who, if they are working, earn a minimum of £400/week and give their mothers £10/week for keep, leaving a large disposable income. This proposal will hit me and many others like me, PENSIONERS and UNEMPLOYED who are already finding the cost of masking this badly managed country (by a few drinks), prohibitive. Pubs are already shutting and people are buying cans and taking them home to drink where they can happily smoke the kids to death too. This ‘do good’ interference will cause more death and heartache among the poor and disenfranchised, illicit distillation, bootlegging and home brewing will occur , can’t we see this or are 'nice' too wrapped up in their own little world of PC committees and like minded narrow thinkers.

Putting alcohol prices up will not solve the problem of abuse or binge drinking. Alcoholics will do anything to get the money to buy, whatever the price or they will turn to other methods. Education is the key to getting the message home in schools prior to the legal drinking age. Get rid of 24hr drinking and restrict the opening hours in pubs to what they were in the 70's. This means that establishments have to close between 3pm and 6pm and 11pm and 11am. Allow well managed and well controlled establishments to open Thursday to Sunday until 03.00 if they obtain permission. ID anyone who is buying alcohol who looks under 30.

It'd make me more likely to binge drink because instead of a pint or maybe two every other day, I'd not be able to afford to drink like that anymore. I think I wouldn't drink at all for weeks on end then be more likely to go on a bender

There's a fine line to walk if the Government want this to work.

If the tarrif is set too low it's ineffective and becomes a non-penalty.

If the tarrif is set too high then it becomes almost like prohibition.

I remember my parents making their own wine and beer from home-brew kits. It was vicious stuff sometimes, and often much more alcoholic than was safe, but it was much cheaper than purchasing from a retailer. Then the supermarkets came along and cheap booze put a stop to most of the home-brewing.

In countries I've visited in Eastern Europe home production still takes place. In Ukraine and Russia you might be given "samagon" - home-made vodka - and in Bulgaria blindness might come to you through "rakia" - a substance akin to meths, I think. People who want alcohol will look for the cheapest method of obtaining it, and I can see demi-jons becoming popular purchases in the near future. And watch out in the peat-bogs for the tell-tale smoke of an illicit still or two.

Or the government can look at better ways of changing our behaviour instead of the old New Labour system of hiking taxes on everything.

This is ridiculous. Once again, the nanny state strikes back. Who honestly think's they have the right to tell me how to live? Who has the power to make my life choices for me? People seem to in these governing bodies that the general population are idiots that need to be feed, watered and led 24/7.

Raising the price of Alcohol is not going to solve the problem. By this you just extort those who already have a problem, because they will spend the money to get drunk. It's a bit like Cigarette's, they are now completely over priced but you still see hundred's of people smoking.

The only reason I can see Tesco supporting this, is for profit. They sell quite a large amount, so a minimum price would make them money. Honestly £3.50 for a pint of beer is too high already.

Price is not a factor in people drinking too much. If a packet of cigarettes was raised by £2 how many peopel would really stop smoking? By raising alcohol prices you are penalising the many for the faults of a few.

People often drink too much because they have emotional or mental health issues and help on the NHS for these is almost non existent.

It is not about having new laws to regulate prices of alcohol else where do we stop? Should we bring in a minimum price for biscuits, chocolate, or cakes because people who eat too many of these become obese and this costs the NHS.

It’s about enforcing existing laws correctly, fining or closing down landlords who serve alcoholic drinks to those who are clearly intoxicated. Make the fine so large £20,000 each time they will soon stop serving drink people. Does also mean not serving those who may have started drinking at home before going out!

The Fact's.

1. The "limits or Units" for binge drinking are false. They were made up under the "We have to be seen to be doing something remit".

2. The alcohol related "incidents" reported by the NHS and the Police have only increased since the method of calculation was changed. This gives a false impression of an increase.

3. The EU, by whom we are ruled does not allow minimum pricing, so any attempt to do so would be illegal.

4. The cost of the NHS and Police to deal with alcohol related problems is more than met by the revenue to the tax coffers from drink.

5. The Alcohol is cheaper than water myth is just that a myth, Tesco's own brand cheapest lager £1.89 for 4 cans (1.6 Litres) against Tesco's own brand bottled water 2 Litres @ 40 pence.

The bottom line is, why should the approx 89% of drinkers (who do not cause any trouble at all) be forced to
pay more for their drink. The laws already exist they ARE RARELY Policed or used.

With the change of government, one would have thought we had moved away from forcing the majority to pay for the sins of the few!

The only reason Tesco, Asda et al, are jumping on the bandwagon is they can see a massive increase in profits as more people drink at home, forcing even more pubs and clubs to close.

As if that is not enough, please remember that the Houses of Parliament bars, gets through roughly £5,000,000 worth of beers and spirits per year, paid for by we taxpayers. This smacks to me as do as we say, not as we do!

While it's true that increasing the price would probably have little effect on alcoholics, this measure isn't aimed at them. It's aimed at the vast majority of so called 'responsible drinkers' who are ignoring the damage that excessive alcohol intake is doing to them, and who will continue to disregard all the surveys, public health announcements, and probably the advice of their own GPs. They will take notice of the effect on their wallets.

I thought we voted out the nanny state several weeks ago.

If adults want to drink at lot, then they must be allowed to do so provided they don't cause harm to others. If they do stupid things while they're druk, then they should be punished in the same way as if they were sober (Sarah Ferguson take note).

I'm sure the existing duties on alcohol cover the NHS costs of alcohol problems. Putting up prices to try to reduce consumption is just wrong: If I want to buy something, and a retailer wants to sell me something, if we agree on a price it's nobody else's business.

So now only rich people are considered sensible enough not to abuse booze?!!!

If NICE were to concetrate on the core job of approving medicines it would be nice.
The nanny state is dead, did they miss the election? Instead of taking people drunk on the streets to hospital why not use our existing laws, lock them up and put them infront of a magistrate. Really inconvenience them and maybe they will get the message. If the dont, jail them.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

1. Revoke labour 24hr pro drinking laws.
2. Stop supermarkets selling booze.
3. Any child caught drunk, drinking, is arrested and the parents must collect them from the station and pay a fine on the spot.

Actually enforce the current law and prosecute shops that sell to underage children.

As a parent I dont see any problem with just enforcing common sense.

I'm not convinced by minimum pricing in the slightest. You have to examine why people drink excessively.

Raising the cost of alcohol will change very few habits. More likely it will create additional financial demands on those on low incomes and probably cause them to drink more! Those who can afford it won't care.

I always wonder where the educative ability of the British gone. Why do we always assume that educating children will expose them to bad habits. To educate our children very early in life will caught them young. Let us educate the children about drugs, alcohol, sex, social and even political responsibilities. Education, education, education and more education.

The problem is summed up quite nicely in your headline: "encourage sensible drinking". Choosing not to drink alcohol at all never seems to be an option. To abstain from drinking is to be a social pariah.

Instead, we're all encouraged to drink, but with restraint. Unfortunately, the last thing that drinking encourages is restraint. There seems to be a belief in this country that drinking to excess is part of what defines us as a nation, to the extent that it has almost become a patriotic duty to consume until we're unconscious. Anyone who prefers not to indulge is letting the side down or is a traitor to the cause of national self-determination. It is no accident that heavy drinking has become associated with overt displays of nationalism, particularly the England football, rugby and now cricket teams.

The unpalatable truth is that drinking to excess is stupid, weak and antisocial. Perhaps that's why it defines our national character so well.

A change of culture. Currently the general consensus in Britain is that drinking too much is something to boast about. Until you change that attitude, you won't get anyone to drink less.

Didn't we have this debate like a week ago?

I don't think that cheap alcohol is the sole cause of binge drinking or other drink related problems by any means but I also don't think it helps. For one having cheap alcohol available is hardly encouraging people to be sensible and well behaved.

To be honest though if we want to tackle our alcohol problems we need to look at the cultural attitudes behind it, more specifically the peer pressure and social status type of drinking that creates a mentality of "if you don't drink you're weak, boring and not worthy of our time".

Also what needs to be tackled is this attitude of looking to cause trouble, again for street credit and peer pressure. Unfortunately some people have an attitude of "a weekend spent away from a police van is a wasted weekend"!

A reduction in ill health brought about by drinking too much alcohol could be achieved overnight by legalizing cannabis, a much safer alternative recreational drug. But its not reducing ill health that drives our society so don't expect it any time soon.

Beware the law of unforseen consequences.
1. The tobacco smugglers will add beer, cider & wine to their container loads.
2. The home brewing industry will get a boost.
3. Binge drinking WILL not be reduced.

This is not the answer, the problem is more complex than that.

1 - Increasing the price of alcohol won't stop people drinking too much.
People will still drink however much they want, they'll just spend more money on it.

2 - For many people, it's a sort of a tool for escapism so people can 'forget their woes', 'drown their sorrows', etc.
'I've had a hard day/week, so I can do whatever I like, because I deserve it'.

3 - There SEEMS to be this attitude among SOME people (not all) that you can only 'party' and enjoy yourself or relax if you're 'off your face', and for those people, that ends up being the main focus and pursuit of the evening.
When discussing the issue of changing licensing hours, those people argued that it's bad for pubs to close at 11 because they are 'drinking against the clock'... as if they had set themselves a target of how much to drink by closing time!... 'never mind the socialising, good food, entertainment and witty and intellectual conversation, my evening is incomplete, unless i've had 10 pints'.

If we can address the underlying social and cultural causes, we might be able to solve the problem, but I don't think that's going to happen because nobody likes to be told that what they're doing is wrong or bad for them.

"At 11:08am on 02 Jun 2010, maledicti wrote:
What people drink and how/when they choose to drink it is a matter of personal choice and bodies like NICE should butt out and leave us to responsible drinkers to enjoy the last pleasure open to us without nannying us into submission.

Instead of treating us like irresponsible children, perhaps they should instead be looking at the reasons why people drink and why this problem exists in the first place. Minimum pricing is not going to be the answer to this one, and once again it is the irresponsible few who are causing the sensible majority to suffer."

Thank goodness for the voice of reason. These are my thoughts exactly. Give me drink and jovial company over a bunch of spoilsports any day.

A simple way to vastly reduce alcohol consumption in this country overnight - legalise cannabis.

Should there be a minimum price on alcohol?

Yes, because it would limit the widespread availability of ridiculously cheap alcoholic drink at supermarkets and corner shops where it is easily accessed by teenagers.

Should advertising be banned?

Yes, because advertising reinforces the view that you can only have fun or attract the opposite sex or be happy with your mates if you drink


What measures would be most effective in encouraging sensible drinking?

1. Education, education, education throughout school years
2. Good parental guidance and example
3. Parents fined if their under-age children are found drinking
4. Heavy fines for any outlet that sells to underage children
5. Marked reduction in the number of licensed premises in city centres
6. Restoration of sensible licensing hours
7. Licensed premises charged the full cost of policing in city centres
8. Drunks charged the full cost of treatment at NHS facilities

So, yet again put up the price and penalise the majority for the actions of the minority.
Fine drunks a significant amount and bump it right up on the second offence. Also stop free NHS treatment for self-inflicted alcohol related injuries.

Honestly, I think the alcohol restrictions are too tight. Before people jump up and down let me explain. I was brought up in the UK by Greek parents. In Greece, there isn't the same culture of "you must not drink until you are 18", it is something that is allowed in moderation as people. When I was 5-6 I was allowed a sherry glass with a spot of wine in it, topped up with lemonade. Gradually as time went on, I was allowed more and stronger, so when I actually started going out, alcohol wasn't a mystery and really didn't bother me.

At 30 years old now, I rarely drink and am quite happy going out stone cold sober as being able to drive home is so much more important to me.

I think the licensing laws should relax on underage drinking, because if you aren't allowed something that is percieved as being grown up, then as a teenager, the thing you are most likely to do it try your upmost to test the boundaries and appear grown up. At 16 years old, a person is old enough to decide whether they want to have sex and potentially be a parent; they can decide what they want to do after compulsary education; they can even decide whether they want to move out of home, providing they can prove that they can support themselves - its a sad fact but true. So you have to ask yourself if teenagers can legally make decisions that will affect their whole life before they are 18, why can't they decide if they want to have a drink.

Another quick point - 16 year old has £10 and wants to go out at night a) go to the pub, have 2-4 pints (depending on location) spread out over whole night. Behaves themselves as doesn't want to get kicked out and also door men keeping an eye on them
b) can't get into pub, still has £10 so gets someone else to go to off license. Get 4x3lts of white lightening (if not more) and sit in park with pals. Get bored, get into mischief, not in control of their actions and leaving themselves more exposed to crimes of violent or sexual nature.

I know which one I prefer

What would encourage sensible drinking?

What is sensible drinking?
So many units a week
Is what their thinking

But not everyone is the same
So the limits change
Or so they claim

Do we increase the price so it costs more?
Do higher costs
Even the score?

Is it our culture that’s to blame?
If we were French
Would it be the same?

Why do we have a celebratory drink?
A bottle of wine for Christmas, Think

Does the way we drink cause the confusion?
Would cutting back be a solution?

Why do people drink to destruction?
why get blitzed and cause a ruction?

I don’t have a clue about the answer
But if some does,
Be sure to thank her.

Alcohol in pubs is expensive enough as it is! I used to go out with friends every weekend but can now only afford once a month. Us responsible drinkers are yet again being penalised for doing nothing wrong.

Those who binge drink and go on to cause Anti-Social behaviour are the ones who should be penalised. The current punishments are simply too leniant to stop drinking beyond your capability

7. At 11:10am on 02 Jun 2010, Hoodie wrote:
The best way to control drinking and it's subsequent violence outside pubs and clubs, is to chrge the full cost of police attendance to any premises. The owners, managers would then be forced to control the level of drinking. As it is, all they want is people drinking loads of alcohol and giving them a huge profit margin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with your proposal is that like most others what you have done is to absolve those who actually cause the problem of their responsibilities.

Its all well and good suggesting a hike in pricing or making venues, pubs etc cover the costs of clear ups and policing, but you are a fool if you think that these costs are not then passed onto the drinkers.

Call me old fashioned, but I am of the firm belief that those who are drinking and behaving irresponsibly should be the ones who pick up the tab, via fines.

If you take a drinker who is causing trouble and fine them an excessive amount i.e. £1000 for being arrested while drunk and disorderly. With additions added to this for police assistance, lock up over night court processing fees (no access to Legal Aid for drink related offences) etc. you could viably make back the costs of covering these peoples behaviour and the rest of us who are able to behave ourselves can get on and enjoy a night out or a few drinks without having to remortgage a kidney in order to do so.

Under Labour we had 13 long years of everyone being penalized because of the actions of a few. I for one have had enough and want to see those who actually cause the problem, dealt with and made to pay for this. I can assure you that once some brazen little nare-do-well has had to stump up a few thousand pounds in order to cover a transgression whilst on a night out, they will be less inclined to behave in a way that is likely to get them arrested and fined in future.

A blanket hike in pricing, be it through the pubs or via taxation is in effect the laziest way of indirectly tackling this issue and I for one am sick of being treated like a child and being collectively punished because the police and government are too feckless to deal with this issue in an adult and intelligent manner.

MAKE THE TRANSGRESSOR PAY FOR THE TROUBLE THEY HAVE CAUSED!!!

Those who are not sensible drinkers, are hardly likely to spend their time writing on these boards. They're recovering from the night before!

"Better education on social drinking, in schools for a start, and greater enforement of the law to stop under age children and young people buying alcoholic drinks from supermarkets and corner shops. There is much less legal drinking in pubs and clubs, that there was a few years ago ? the prices are far too high, and the smoking ban are all to blame for the pubs and clubs that have closed all around the U.K.

I am pretty fed up of being punished for other people's views, problems and habits!
Why not raise food prices too, to cut down on the number of fat people?!!!
Or charge for a license to have children?!
Anyhow, no, a minimum price will have no effect on those who really want to drink.
Education is the solution; minimum pricing is a punishment.

What would encourage sensible drinking? Simple, the thought of having to pay for, or go without, treatment for alcohol abuse related illnesses and the thought of ever increasing jail sentences for those who commit crime and/or antisocial problems while under the influence of alcohol. Taxing us decent, law abiding drinkers even more, is not the answer.

Oh the same old leaks and hypocritical spin before a Budget?

So, let's have more UK duty tax on alcohol going straight to UK treasury (not VAT) to help pay off UK deficit.

Abolish advertising of alcohol anywhere in UK and on any media in UK. What is the problem? Cigarette advertising was banned - yet people still smoke? However, smoking a cigarette does not make people violent; cost billions in police costs every weekend; or causes attacks each other or be vulnerable to rape while drunk?

Well, Chancellor - you can't be poacher and gamekeeper - you either care about public health and public costs as regards to alcohol, or not?

As Chancellor you have the usual lobbying from the usual big boys on alcohol pricing. Be a bigger man than any of the usual suspects?

Everything Labour did failed so that all needs to be reversed.

I agree with David's post earlier
"A change in society's attitude so that it was unacceptable to get drunk in public".

The reason we do drink is also probably something to do with the reserved nature of most brits and the fact that this reduces in proportion to consumed alcohol....and the fact that alcohol consumption is still seen badge of honour by many males.

btw we're not talking about alcoholics here...we're talking about trying to stop people becoming alcoholics.

"NICE" but not very bright.....
Let's see, the price of a packet of fags has never deterred anyone from smoking.
The cost of illegal drugs doesn't stop addicts buying them.
Rising fuel costs has not dramatically cleared roads of cars.

So, why do they think setting a minimum price on a unit of alcohol is going to do anything other than making it look like the government is doing something, when in reality they are not?

Changing social attitudes, educating entire generations, changing drinking cultures. That's the only thing that will have the slightest effect on this, and that will take 20 years to change, perhaps?

I'm sceptical as to whether placing a minimum price on alcohol would encourage sensible drinking. More money for the government perhaps. What is really required is a change in attitudes, a change in education and a change in culture.
In France, it's customary to drink wine every now and then - even for children. Germany has its beer culture. In neither of these two countries do we hear about a widespread drinking problem. Maybe such a problem does exist in those countries and it isn't reported here, I don't know, but there definitely does need to be some programme of re-education on responsible drinking.

I always believed in moderation. That was until I met with the BBC's HYS pedestrian moderation. Now I am going to stock up and unleash my furies (well the repeatable ones) all in one go.

Now what was it I was going to say about binge drinking...?

Let's kill a few stupid ideas. Firstly, the amount people drink is *not* a matter of 'personal choice' if your 'personal choice' causes you to behave in a way which any reasonable person would find objectionable, whether that entails (to choose a few from many possible examples) vomiting in the street, starting a drunken argument or groping a work colleague. Secondly, the idea that we need to remove the so-called 'reasons' people get drunk is utter rubbish; if life is so terrible, why are you blotting it out with something as ineffectual as alcohol? Heroin, cocaine or suicide would all do a much better job. The reason, of course, is that alcohol is cheap, legal, widely available and socially sanctioned. Thirdly, what's all this about 'penalising moderate drinkers on low incomes'? This is just part of the assumption that alcohol needs to be such a central part of our lives that those on low incomes 'deserve' to be able to drink it along with everyone else. So it'll become something that a lot of people can't afford, just like other unnecessary luxuries; so what? Those on low incomes will simply be too sensible to waste money on it except in genuine moderation.

I enjoy beer and wine occasionally, but it really is that: an occasion. I wouldn't care if bottles of wine started at £8 and supermarket beers at £3 per can or bottle, as the effect on my expenditure as a truly moderate drinker would just be a few pounds per year. However, if moderate drinkers insist on asking why they should be 'penalised', I'd suggest it's not a penalty, it's them doing their bit by paying a bit more - and it really only will be a bit more if their drinking is truly moderate - to help safeguard society as a whole from the problems of excessive drinking. Surely they'd be happy to do that?

"What measures would be most effective in encouraging sensible drinking?"
Nothing but very severe penalties for the abuse of Alcohol that leads to any kind of crime or anti-social behaviour - that MUST include the parents of under-age drinkers. But of course in this 'progressive' Government, are some who would feel faint if they were asked to make people responsible for their actions.

On the Health side of alcohol-abuse, Doctors could possibly check their patients regularly on say, a yearly basis, log the results, and warn them accordingly. This alone would deter many from such abuse and ease the pressure on the NHS.

Raising the cost of alcohol is not acceptable - it penalises the VAST majority who do not abuse. We already have too many Laws that penalise EVERYONE for the actions of the few - instead of dealing with the irresponsible abusers with adequately STRONG penalties. Raising the price will only lead to more crime as abusers seek the means to continue their habit - just as with drug-takers.

Government must top 'pussy-footing' with offenders - we want strong governence - no more of the PC that has put the UK in this position...

Alcohol should not be on sale in supermarkets. We had a system of off-licence premises years ago (usually attached to/or through a window at a local pub). It worked well, people generally drank in moderation, and the price was proportionate.
So - revert back to this off-licence system
Raise the legal age for alcohol to 21
Apply the letter of the law properly.
And for goodness sake ------stop listening to 'experts'

These "prohibitionists" in Government only want to squeeze the public more and more. So I have rebelled. I make my own beer and wine. If more people would make their own, then the tax theiving polticians would have to move elsewhere to get their greed on!

Would this make me a sensible drinker?

No - but then I already am.

Maybe these people should do what I've said a number of times on these forums. Advise us as to what the medical profession is telling us is sensible (although that appears to change with the wind) and then let us make our own mind up.

Might I suggest that they should focus less on what and how much people are drinking and focus more on why. It's not cost. I don't go out and binge drink just because it's cheap. Could it possibly be something to do with the 'must do everything now and have everything now' society we've created that puts people under too much stress and this is becoming a more and more common way of dealing with that.

As no one reads these comments except those letting off steam it is pointless to express any opinion. However, for those letting of steam I would like to add that, if every scientist writing papers backs the conventional theory they are more likely to get their paper accepted. Then of course we will see a body of evidence in favour of putting up the price to reduce alcohol consumption. Could this be government softening up the population to accept a hike in price?

Well..what about stress as a cause of increased alcohol consumption?

Dont suppose that would suit the backers of such tripe to find a link between working hours / financial strain / student loans they cannot pay / buy a house and feed the kids . God I would turn to drink if I was a young fella today. We ask too much of them.

I think many good people try and fail at this one.
In the Med area, families eat together and responsible drinking is seen to be done.
In the UK, the family unit seems to have broken down somewhat so we don't have that kind of culture.
Raise the age limit to 21 and try and find out why these youngsters are getting off their face with frightening regularity-it's scary.If they are the future, I am scared.

Usual solutions to problems - charge more for the alleged cause. In this case drinking. We have a problem with knife crime. Why not make knives too expensive?

Why not look at the many causes. Here is a suggestion. People are being bullied, pushed around, in work or when unemployed. A few drinks and you feel back on top of the world.

One comes home from work, hounded by bureaucrats, reach for the bottle or down to the pub. Fortunately I go to sleep after a few drinks, some people become a nuisance. Never mind HYS comments will have the solution - higher taxes . Bah.