How will the trade pact change China-Taiwan relations?

Who stands to gain from the new trade arrangements between mainland China and Taiwan? Apart from the owners of businesses situated in these two administrations and possibly some of their employees it is difficult to perceive any early gain being achieved elsewhere in the world. In the very long term it might mean that the situation that exists politically means that this area of the world has less potential for military conflict.

What it does mean for the rest of the world in economic terms is that it is highly likely that other nations will have to seek new markets for their products that they previously supplied to mainland China and Taiwan; assuming that it is possible to find such new markets.

The Chinese people will soon get fed up with not being able to buy anything made locally as everything will be imported from Taiwan!

It's good to see 2 countries cooperating in a mutually beneficial agreement. I think certain more 'developed' countries could take notes.

it won't.

Very good news.

This is the sane way to resolve international disputes. Trade not war.

How will the trade pact change China-Taiwan relations?

Well its got to be more positive than the impending war between them predicted by many pundits in the early 90s.

Taiwan has been lucky with many twists and turns during her short history as R.O.C. This deal offers new chances and benefits for Taiwan again. China eyes integrity first of all, but this carefully sculptured project could make both sides finally happy. Peace however is the most valuable achievement of the parties and that may serve as a positive example for many other, virtually hopeless parts of the world. This was a victory of reason over brutal force...

Does that mean even cheaper goods heading our way? More goods that don't conform to the stringent safety standards that we demand? Great!!!!

China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself.

This may seem a good economic outcome, but basically it also provides China with MUCH greater economic leverage which ultimately results in much greater political leverage.

China NEVER gives CONSESSIONS without gaining serious advantage itself, which it WILL also do/achieve with the issue over it's support of the strength of it's currency, to do anything LESS, would be a LOSS OF FACE.

China is playing a long term political game and you can bet your bottom dollar that it has already worked out its "check mate" move, whether it is in 5 years or 20 years.

China will NOT EVER retreat from re-unification with Taiwan and will use whatever means are available to facilitate that final outcome and this is just a part of it's long term strategy, nothing else.

A snake is always a snake.

"We can give up our profits because Taiwanese compatriots are our brothers."
Wen Jiabao, Chinese Premier

This is how you win hearts and minds.

China's Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Straits (ARATS) and Taiwan's Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF) signed a free trade pact, Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement. Result: reduced tariffs on hundreds of goods.

I have to wonder how the United States will take this (accept this); it wasn't so long ago that the United States was sending advanced defensive weapons to Taiwan.



In addition, the agreement provides for the liberalization of the banking sector for investments by both parties.

The share price of Xiamen International Trade Group (600755) dropped 5.6 percent to close at 12.47 yuan per share today.

China has become exceptionally powerful via manufacturing, exporting and trading.

Geographically, China has enormous natural resources that have been harnessed in a very focused way which cannot be denied? Softly, softly trade, don't fight, is an example that saves billions on making war?

There is much we can all learn, but much we don't know of the hardships either of the economic miracle?

Nevertheless, all human society or human civilisations, throughout history, are imperfect and/or are deeply flawed?

I hope Taiwanese reconsider relations with China. I don’t doubt Taiwan will be swallowed up by China in the near future if they continue such an agreement. I am worrying that this agreement might be the first step to unify politically China and Taiwan.

Trade is better than political posturing and political posturing is better than war.

Maybe China has worked out that the only way re-unification will happen is if the Taiwanese people want it and vote for it. If that is the case then it is more likely if the Taiwanese consider mainland China to be friendly brothers in trade than armed to the teeth rivals.

Argentina should try the same with the Falkland Islanders

"#10. At 11:49am on 29 Jun 2010, Johnnybgood wrote:
A snake is always a snake."
__________________________________

Is it the year of the snake?

Further evidence that trade sanctions are a political manoeuvre rather than a solution.

China does not care if it loses out a bit now, the long term goal is always most important to the Chinese. So China have to wait 99 years they leased a parcel of second rate farm land and a ropey port they got back a financial king pin of the region – Hong Kong!

Twain is in their sights!

It'll start of as an economic relationship, like the EU.
It'll result in dominance of the most major economic power and removal of soveriegnties, like the EU.

"Keep your friends close, and keep your enemies closer."

2. At 10:33am on 29 Jun 2010, pzero wrote: The Chinese people will soon get fed up with not being able to buy anything made locally as everything will be imported from Taiwan!

--------

you'd prefer they just had a war then?

I hope so. Any development that can abate or even end this historical hostility between China and Taiwan is bound to be a good thing.

The West, in particular the US, will always try to drive a wedge between the Mainland & Taiwan. Do not forget that they are Chinese & that they have more in common than divides them.

. At 10:33am on 29 Jun 2010, pzero wrote:
"The Chinese people will soon get fed up with not being able to buy anything made locally as everything will be imported from Taiwan!"

Taiwan is a small and expensive place.
China loves and trusts the quality of "Made in R.O.C.", so goods from Taiwan will enjoy certain prestige there, just like the services.
Other way around only the price will dominate presently.

China, an authoritarian communist country, will never sacrifice anything without achieving its ultimate political gain and global military expansion. It's regrettable for the current Taiwan's KMT administration to ignore its failure in negotiating with communist China in the last eighty years. From the mass protest rally in Taiwan on June 26 against the ECFA, it's obvious that Taiwanese are worried about losing Taiwan's sovereiognty and freedom. The United States, as a leader of the free world, should take actions to sign the FTA with Taiwan ASAP to guarantee the security in the Asia Pacific region.

Chinese leaders are on an occupying other nations and power greedy. They occupied Tibet and the world could not do anything.

Chinese wants Taiwan to be part of Greater China and to achieve this the leaders will do anything. Trade between two nations are the beginning of the game plan!

All trade barriers are as artificial as a dam on a river, eventually they break or get rerouted or removed. Trade should flow naturally, from the haves to the have nots, creating a level field.

22. At 1:51pm on 29 Jun 2010, James wrote:
"China, an authoritarian communist country, will never sacrifice anything without achieving its ultimate political gain and global military expansion. It's regrettable for the current Taiwan's KMT administration to ignore its failure in negotiating with communist China ... The United States, as a leader of the free world, should take actions to sign the FTA with Taiwan ASAP..."

You made my day :))
I think you have better watch another TV channel and/or read real papers... Especially the "leader of the free world" is imaginative...
China is great, Taiwan is a kind of Nirvana.

Communism through the back door

MrWonderfulReality posts:
China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself.
China NEVER gives CONSESSIONS without gaining serious advantage itself
China is playing a long term political game and you can bet your bottom dollar that it has already worked out its "check mate" move, whether it is in 5 years or 20 years.
You say that like it’s a bad thing? Imagine if you can a British Government of whatever political hue acting like that on behalf of the UK…simply impossible isn’t it.

How about a referendum on the issue of unification?.

26. At 3:29pm on 29 Jun 2010, reenie53110 wrote:
"Communism through the back door"

Perhaps so, but it is trendy again.
All reasonable alternatives are bankrupted...

Who cares?

As a Taiwanese, i support the trade pack very much. My grandparents escaped form the mainland 60 years ago. I was the civil war that led the separation of the whole China. But we are all Chinese and the people on both sides of the straight have the common ancestor. My grandparents said the whole country would be reunified in the future when they were dying. I also believe that. The people on both sides are always brothers. No wars. Please America don't send weapons to Taiwan.
I believe as the mainland becomes more and more democratic, we will gain reunification.
We will build a strong, democratic and friendly China.

This is a trailblazer. Nice move. The hatchet has been buried. Move on, Cnina and Taiwan!

13. At 12:20pm on 29 Jun 2010, yourfriendjapan wrote:

I hope Taiwanese reconsider relations with China. I don’t doubt Taiwan will be swallowed up by China in the near future if they continue such an agreement. I am worrying that this agreement might be the first step to unify politically China and Taiwan.

I really don't agree with you.
I think Japanese is very poor in history knowledge. Without the invasion from Japan last century, no the present problems at all between China mainland and Taiwan.
It is said Japanese government has interfered with the history text, praising their invasion in the II world war.

China will eventually take control of Taiwan. China is now the number one player in the far east, and will soon be the number one player in the world. China never really gives an inch when they have leverage. People also tend to forget that China is still a one party communist/ i.e. capitalist system. The central government is playing like they are communists while being the most capitalist nation I can think of.

Take Tibet for example!! Will China give up its claim there, or will they continue to expand economically, and eventually militarily? Unlike the United States, Japan, the EU, and other powers China get what China wants and keeps it. They are very much on track to be the sole superpower in the next 20 years, and their dominance will intensify until they have to face sever consequences which they never really will, because it seems like every nation on earth is afraid of China, and this fear will just intensify as the years pass by.

What scares other powere is that many nations will look at China and say to themselves their system works while democracy really doesn't. China's economy seems to grow at a rapid rate under the regime that is in place, therefore many will look at this as an example of a nation state that actually works while democracy, and freedom from censorship really doesn't. These factors are what the world ought to be concerned about!

Trade isn't a bad thing as long as Taiwan doesn't deal with Chinese state-owned businesses and prevents China from getting a stranglehold on the Taiwanese economy (the possibility of which I consider China's reason for signing the pact).

Or at least Taiwan should ensure an economic stranglehold will be mutual (like between the US and China).

Europe and America can raise any DEVILS to its pursuit. It's time that OUR investors take care of our own people. No wonder N.Korea, Pakistan, Iran will break the WORLD stability in ARMS race.

China's expansionism is more of political rather than ideological. Taiwan has chosen its natural foe in its fear and will definitely benefit from it.

As in the case of IDEOLOGICAL contrast, we in the WEST are routinely burdened with the WORLD SECURITY breaches.


Can China ever be intelligent enough to explain the WORLD of how important is the ARMS race? If not the HUMAN RACE?

9. At 11:31am on 29 Jun 2010, MrWonderfulReality wrote:

China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself.

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As does the US (although it messed up with Afghanistan and Iraq) and just about every other country in the world. In fact, in your whole comment, you could replace China with US and it would still be accurate (apart from the reunification with Tawian of course).

The sabre rattling from both parties is just so much hype and means very little these days.These two countries are the same peoples and its clear they have more in common than just trade.Good luck to them.Perhaps this milestone in history should be a lesson to the little englanders when the subject of europe is raised.

I think Taiwan needs to wait until China is better on human rights and freedoms, before it reunites with the mainland.

The Chinese are very determined and clever in executing any action done either directly or indirectly either now or in future and shall do nothing without self benefits most securely attached in the entire approach. They often think of the good of their grandchildren instead them for securing the fruit of the result of their actions. Their strategy is that long term instead of getting of an immediate result. But with world dying; the irreversible action of which has already started, what such material procurement shall ever work on behalf of a particular Country?

The present action on the part of the Chinese to invest heavily in Taiwan is to compensate whatever they had earned through illegal means prior to getting caught in the act of doing of wrongfully invading the Global market through use of proxy instead doing of a direct Business allowing the middleman a free hand to get rich in between without offering of any labor worth the name which are or were mainly manufactured through doing of duplications instead of putting of any labor to earned it. Although no invention ever token place or being taking place within the Country worth the name, they are the both father and mother of all Technologies often given free by the world in-spite of its knowledge of the risk of putting these into mass misuse to the extent of killing all the Donors using a backdoor entry.

Therefore in order to use the wealth so secured with none’s knowledge, the Country require a permanent field of its own to remain alive of its own without depending upon others to issue unjust commands to one and all and hence the action. However, if they are working opposite to their style of working to undo the wrongs already done, it is surely good information or auger to the world to get chance of survival out of the result of the imbalance that had taken effect on us long ago.

(Dr.M.M.HAZARIKA, PhD)

Yes, the historic trade pact WILL change things. For one, China and Taiwan will be trading.

I think the quotation is "jaw jaw is better than war war"

No one would win a war so to trade is a start.

34. At 5:20pm on 29 Jun 2010, David Gussie wrote:

China will eventually take control of Taiwan. China is now the number one player in the far east, and will soon be the number one player in the world. China never really gives an inch when they have leverage. People also tend to forget that China is still a one party communist/ i.e. capitalist system. The central government is playing like they are communists while being the most capitalist nation I can think of.

Take Tibet for example!! Will China give up its claim there, or will they continue to expand economically, and eventually militarily? Unlike the United States, Japan, the EU, and other powers China get what China wants and keeps it. They are very much on track to be the sole superpower in the next 20 years, and their dominance will intensify until they have to face sever consequences which they never really will, because it seems like every nation on earth is afraid of China, and this fear will just intensify as the years pass by.

What scares other powere is that many nations will look at China and say to themselves their system works while democracy really doesn't. China's economy seems to grow at a rapid rate under the regime that is in place, therefore many will look at this as an example of a nation state that actually works while democracy, and freedom from censorship really doesn't. These factors are what the world ought to be concerned about!
====================================================================

What's so scary about China?
-If their system works, it works. And others will emulate what works, and that should include the West. To say that it is a choice between the China system and democracy is a false choice.
-When there was trouble in the lead-up to the Beijing Olympics with some Muslim troublemakers, China took care of it internally. They didn't invade two countries. What's so scary about China?

As to the trade pact, I see it as a positive move. China has no need to take control of Taiwan. As long as there is peace and trade ties, it has the vision and patience to wait it out. This is the advantage of one-party rule, as opposed to democracy where the sitting party has to clean up the mess left by the previous one. And making change is so difficult because the opposing party blocks every piece of legislation.

As long as Taiwanese feel that they are treated fairly, integration will follow. They same was said about the handover of HongKong, and the skies didn't fall down.

9. At 11:31am on 29 Jun 2010, MrWonderfulReality wrote:

"China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself."

While I don't agree with many of China's internal and external policies, I do wish our politicians, at least once, had the some of the same attitude their leaders.

Instead we were stuck with the likes of Blair, Brown and Cameron.

China and Taiwan shame the US and UK when it comes to behaving responsibly Internationally in this instance.

The US and UK are unable to anything with countries they disagree with but bomb and occupy them if the country does not have the capacity to resist their technological warfare.

"China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself."


If you add the word "perceived" in front of measured isn't that true of all international actors?

Why should America pay for Taiwan? The island must assimilate with China. There is no need for the military tension.

And come to think of it, just what do the Chinese make of us Americans from the stuff we buy? Such a collection of ridiculous trivial junk has never been involved in serious international trade ever before. They have to think [correct diagnosis] we are mad, or, more likely, barbarians. Ah, well. The point. Mainland & Taiwan with this trade - closeness shall evolve into a colossal economic force, the likes of which we've never seen. And ideologically it'll be a Medusa. Not to worry. By then, Earth will be uninhabitable. The biosphere and the whatmeworrysphere shall try to keep up with the changes in the What. Eversphere.

And really. To say, "The US and UK are unable to anything with countries they disagree with but bomb and occupy them...." And, "China and Taiwan shame the US and UK when it comes to behaving responsibly --- Internationally in this instance...." Well!

(Spins about, manipulates costume). Naow then, naow then, what's all this? What's all this? We always leave Canada alone, eh? ---Except for hammering les Habs in the Stanley Cup. And ---get this, laddie--- who could feature *either* China as "internationally responsible"? Easier to see Bonny and Clyde as "financially imprudent."

It seems China is very popular in those African, South American and Arabin countries. But those coutries regard USA and most of west European countries as enmeies. We must admit that we ever robbed those countries. That USA gained a lot from the I and II world war.
Exactly speakng, we are just jealous of China, not scared by China. Last centruty,the present developed countries performed much worse. But the present China is developing peacefully. As long as you don't attack her or do harm to her interst, China is likely to make friends with you.
Look at our poor sodiers in Afghanistan, the weapons of those millitants are mostly from USA, but are following America fight with them. It is USA who irritate the whole Islansm world, not Europ...

My only interest is from an idle standpoint. We gave away our industry to countries such as these. Its good to know that, unlike the UK they are not squandering their industrial bases.

Our media last week reported there were lots of protests against the trade pack in Taiwan. But in fact only a few of persons were gathered by the opposition party. Especially it is said that party mainly cosists of Japanese, whose ancestors came to the island 100 years ago after the war between China and Japan.....
It is very difficult for Japanese to make a choice between America and Cnina,,Their politicians are threatened by the Washinton, however the masses reject Americans and demand to close the millitary base...

Its a reflection of deeper economic realities. for the past sixty years Taiwan hitched its wagon to the USA as it was a powerhouse and the PRC was a basket case.

Now the ROC realises that the situation is the total reverse and that America is a star sinking even more rapidly than the PRC's is rising. In addition, many of Taiwan's elite realise that the cultural ties of all being Chinese means that the PRC can offer Taiwan a large piece of the action in a way that the US never could or even wanted too.

Watch more free trade agreements get signed by Taiwan and other nations as it becomes a convenient back door in and out of the PRC itself. Very useful in the event of a trade war!

V Siva wrote:

Chinese leaders are on an occupying other nations and power greedy. They occupied Tibet and the world could not do anything.

Chinese wants Taiwan to be part of Greater China and to achieve this the leaders will do anything. Trade between two nations are the beginning of the game plan!

____________________________________________________________________

Taiwan is much more a part of China than Gibraltar is a part of Britain or Alaska is a part of USA or Kashmir or Assam are parts of India.

China, Taiwan, USA and UN all agree that there is only one China, the only issue is does Beijing or Taiwan represent that one China.

" Exactly speakng, we are just jealous of China, not scared by China. Last centruty,the present developed countries performed much worse. But the present China is developing peacefully. As long as you don't attack her or do harm to her interst, China is likely to make friends with you.
Look at our poor sodiers in Afghanistan, the weapons of those millitants are mostly from USA, but are following America fight with them. It is USA who irritate the whole Islansm world, not Europ... "

...UH,dragon? what does the US have to do with the trade impact BETWEEN China and Taiwan?

I just hope China makes better products, because their stuff is poorly made and not worth buying ...unless you are in dragon's country!

Attack her or harm her? Islam world? dude, stay on point with the topic and stop blaming the USA for your third world misery!

Very Clever, these Chinese, eh? First they create the illusion of an international conflict so the US will sell Taiwan all it's latest and greatest military hardware, and then they make a work-around so they can "absorb" Taiwan, thereby becoming the third largest country in the world (measured by land mass). I am predicting that within 10 years Taiwan will become another province by political means, and that in 15 to 20 years China will become the world's number one economy, eclipsing the US. After that, it's a short hop to world political domination, world economic domination, and world ideological domination. It will remain to be seen if the US, or some other place will retain or become the world's number one provider of innovations and inventions. According the the works of Joseph Needham, oxford scholar extroadinaire, China once held that position, and held it for a 1000 years. For at least that long, and probably a lot longer, Chinese people were conceiving an average of 7 major technological breakthroughs per century, while the rest of the world was mired in back-water political and military games. It's the naivete of the US, barely 200 years old, totally in denial about the coming world domination of the Chinese nation, which is accelerating the demise of western civilization as we know it. On the other hand, perhaps the Chinese have something there. After all, they did run the highest level of civilization in the world for a longer period of time than any other culture on earth. Perhaps it's high time they had a chance to lead the world yet again. Regarding their present form of government, it seems to me to be just about the same as they've had for the past 3000 years. And just like Americans, they're members of the human race. Worse than that I cannot add (apologies to Samuel Clemens).

48. sean56z:

"Why should America pay for Taiwan? The island must assimilate with China. There is no need for the military tension."

____________________________

How does the US pay for Taiwan? If by 'pay', do you mean make billions of dollars by selling weaponry to the Taiwanese government?

And why must a country assimilate with another if they do not wish to? I assume you are an American? Aren't you guys all about freedom?

yes I do wellcome it. Better that they talk of trade, than talk of war..

"5. At 10:58am on 29 Jun 2010, stanblogger wrote:
This is the sane way to resolve international disputes. Trade not war."

Amen, we need a lot more of it as well.

I don't understand how people can say that a trade agreement automatically leads to peace. If this ECONOMIC agreement has any POLITICAL significance at all, it is probably in favor of China. Yes it is true that Taiwan will benefit from this more so than China will, but at the risk of becoming too economically dependent on China. And this is exactly what China wants. It will be that much easier for it to reunite with Taiwan if the island relies so heavily on the mainland. Additionally, many are afraid of the flood of cheap imports from that could threaten the Taiwanese economy. Just look at this quote from Wen Jiabao: "[We] can give up our profits because Taiwanese compatriots are our brothers". Are you kidding me? That quote and this trade pact are smacking of hypocrisy. Essentially he is saying that China is willing to suffer a MINOR (we all know how powerful China's economy is) setback in order to take over Taiwan. If the Taiwanese people want to be free, and have committed few if any terrorist activities, they should be free. Let us not forget that China has entire arrays of missiles aimed at the country 24/7. And then people have the nerve to criticize the US for selling missiles to Taiwan? I never knew defending your allies was so unpopular, I guess the people of the world are just becoming more and more cowardly. Please. Critics of the West love to create conspiracies about the wars in Iraq, terrorism, etc. So why not create a conspiracy about how China's trade pact is really a ploy to take over Taiwan???

Yet more sources for fake software, videos, books, watches, clothing and even fake internal combustion engines bound for Europe and elsewhere. The whole of SE Asia is at it and nobody says boooo! Both China and Taiwan's economies were triggered by mass-producing copies of originals developed in the USA, Japan and Europe. Is nobody man enough to stand up to them?

Nothing will be changed, there are already more than 300 thousand Taiwanese living and working in Shanghai anyway. This is only the number for this one city only. Lots of Taiwanese officials and students want to get a degree in Chinese universities. A pack means it is a marriage after a long cohabitation. What can be changed is the title not the essence.

At 9:57pm on 29 Jun 2010, general_patton wrote:

" Exactly speakng, we are just jealous of China, not scared by China. Last centruty,the present developed countries performed much worse. But the present China is developing peacefully. As long as you don't attack her or do harm to her interst, China is likely to make friends with you.
Look at our poor sodiers in Afghanistan, the weapons of those millitants are mostly from USA, but are following America fight with them. It is USA who irritate the whole Islansm world, not Europ... "

...UH,dragon? what does the US have to do with the trade impact BETWEEN China and Taiwan?

I just hope China makes better products, because their stuff is poorly made and not worth buying ...unless you are in dragon's country!

Attack her or harm her? Islam world? dude, stay on point with the topic and stop blaming the USA for your third world misery!

________________________________________________________________________

Couldn't agree any more, my friend. Especially that last part!

the co-related trade are the most suitable way to decrease the tension between countries,crease the co-operation,benefits between them(www.facebook.com/helmy.elsaid)

Assuming that the agreement has been entered into willingly by both countries, it should be welcomed. Also, it appears that it will significantly reduce the threat of war between them. If it ultimately leads to the voluntary reunification of China and Taiwan, that will resolve a huge problem which has confronted, for example, the U.S. (acknowledging both entities), although it may give rise to another(a stronger unified power).

The 'glue' of trade will outlast political issue to the relationship between these two cousins.Yes, one can foresee change in attitude towards each other.

China and Taiwan have long disputes over the issue of unification. While Taiwan wants to separate and become an independent state from the mainland, China insists that Taiwan is part of it. Therefore, although the benefits of deal seem to favour Taiwan, China expected that the deal will be strengthened relations between them to be paving the way for unification.

9. At 11:31am on 29 Jun 2010, MrWonderfulReality wrote:
China does NOTHING without first planning a measured long term positive outcome for itself.

----------------------

I can only judge this as the way forward for this country. Having spent a long time in China I can only say that the media reports about China are for the majority wrong or just sensational.
If more countries looked out for their own first a balance would finally happen. Some would lose out but its Darwins theory all over.

china is showing traits of true world leadership by resolving issues in peaceful manner like the one with taiwan, not by creating conflicts and preaching 'new world order'. China should be supported for leadership role.

One way or the other, ultimately it is what it is... talk is cheap and treaties, pacts, rules, laws, agreements, sanctions and the rest are inconsequential at the end of the day.

Westerners might profit from staying out of this one and watching at the sidelines. Chinese notions of morality are subtlety different from Western, and although not "inscrutable" (non-pc?) their actions are easily mis-understood. Two similar cultures have agreed the trade pact, so I assume they both gain some advantage. Watch what happens and learn.

The rest of the world and particularly the US needs to leave China and Taiwan alone to sort out their issues. Its always the interference that serves as wedges.

The U.S. 'defense' (sic) industry will be licking its wounds for some time to come; they will be the biggest losers in this. What a shame, eh?

Good for China and Taiwan too. I think this is the best peaceful approach,siting on a round table and discussing business not disputes.

China does not just get into business without forecasting and foreseeing the benefits.

Hope this trade ties will not be interpreted negatively by the western countries especially America.

China,keep it up. You have proven to be a strong nation,both economically and politically.

55. At 9:57pm on 29 Jun 2010, general_patton wrote:

" Exactly speakng, we are just jealous of China, not scared by China. Last centruty,the present developed countries performed much worse. But the present China is developing peacefully. As long as you don't attack her or do harm to her interst, China is likely to make friends with you.
Look at our poor sodiers in Afghanistan, the weapons of those millitants are mostly from USA, but are following America fight with them. It is USA who irritate the whole Islansm world, not Europ... "

...UH,dragon? what does the US have to do with the trade impact BETWEEN China and Taiwan?

I just hope China makes better products, because their stuff is poorly made and not worth buying ...unless you are in dragon's country!

Attack her or harm her? Islam world? dude, stay on point with the topic and stop blaming the USA for your third world misery!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't we blame America?
Everything it has done is all right?
Can't we show our mercy to the third world?
Didn't America gain a lot from the I and II world war?
I think what dragon said is almost right.
The fact is those militants in Islam are really regarded as heroes by the local, who provide continuously support to those militants,,,while our soldiers are considered as invaders....
Can't we withdraw our soldiers?
I think you have better watch another TV channel and/or read real papers... Especially the "leader of the free world" is imaginative...

Is would really be Presumptous for us to approve or disapprove, afterall China is accomplishing Peacefully in Decades on it's Own, what we've been trying to achieve Militarily for Centuries with a host of like-minded Allies.

REALITY is: (Taiwan)-Peoples Republic of China are Chinese in every way except Ideology.
Fact is, intended or not, China has found the Right Balance between Free-Market Capitalism and Soft Communism (Socialism). OUR Stock-Markets says so.
For China to adopt our style of Democracy, we'll have to Demonstrate by Deed that our System is Superior.
Freedom-of-Speech is about all we have that Chinese lack, and even that is Monitored and subject to being Liked. Since 9/11 we've gone steadily BACKWARD.

More recently Turkmenistan Gas & Oil Pipeline: After NATO occupied Afghanistan, China Negotiated & Built their pipeline from the same source, and started pumping Oil & Gas last year, while we're still Waging War for ours. Yeah,there's our LOVE for Afghanis too.

Similarly with Africa; What we oppressed with Foreign Aid, China is uplifting with Partnerships.

Like the old folks used to say: "You can either take my Stupid Advice, or keep on Failing".

I think people should remember exactly what is meant by Reunification. It is not about a reunification of China and Taiwan, it is not about a reunification of the PRC and the ROC, it is about the reunification of the CCP and the KMT, in short the reunification of the Political elites from the two parties that have legitimacy as ruling parties, past and present of China.

In that sense the agreement is an agreement between the CCP and the KMT which is why the opposition is so worried. The Pan Greens also realise that they are a very much a minor consideration. They only have significance because of the presence of the KMT and their opposition to the CCP. If the two main Chinese parties become reconciled, the Pan Greens know that they are nothing but local separatists, easily sidelined.

I think it's a ploy by China to infiltrate thousands of "businessmen" into Taiwan to weigh up the opposition, then they can time their invasion after destroyng all the then known defences with the squillions of missiles that just happen to be pointing at the island. They could use it as a giant refugee camp to house all the N Koreans when that Country pops.

(I don't believe that for a minute. It must be the 41C heat of Doha getting to me as I sip my cold Tiger on the beach)

Seriously, what do they know that we don't, as China does nothing without weighing up the options for months or even years. This will be part of a bigger chess like plan. Your move Mr President (Obama).

48. At 8:45pm on 29 Jun 2010, sean56z wrote:
"Why should America pay for Taiwan? The island must assimilate with China. There is no need for the military tension.

Pay for what?
Taiwan had/has a great military hardware toy deal with the US on its own expenses. It has a big $ surplus (kept in US banks), so your paranoia about US cash is wrongly addressed. (The mindless waste of your money happens on other parts of the globe to please "friends" and your own corporations.) About the assimilation: It will happen when Cuba will do so. But all sides have to be receptive towards the idea first, than consider it...

This so called "economic" pact is not a pure economic matter, it involves so many political implications that you cannot totally ignore those political negtive effects on Taiwan, not to mention the economic interests promised by both governments are just superficial. Just to cite one example: the date and location of signing this pact have a obvious strong historical linkage to that of Koumintang's( the ruling party in Taiwan, which was defeated by Chinese Communist in 1949) and HongKong's surrender to Chinese Communist.

Ali Haider Kazmi wrote:
Taiwan is much more a part of China than Gibraltar is a part of Britain or Alaska is a part of USA or Kashmir or Assam are parts of India.

China, Taiwan, USA and UN all agree that there is only one China, the only issue is does Beijing or Taiwan represent that one China.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to be more certain about Taiwan being a part of China than an ordinary chinese. Not to mention your needless comparisons with USA, UK and India while conveniently forgetting the Baluchistan issue in Pakistan.

What exactly is deficit of Budget? As and when we add extra currency into the system which is either not measured or unearned by any but issued solely by the concern Government for buying a particular service of importance, the said amounts are considered infused into the system and reflected in the Balance Sheet as additional funds being presumed not correctly generated but required to meet a particular demand of the situation. However, when it is legitimately earned and duly collected by the Government by various sources mainly through collection of Taxes, the deficit can never happen in the Government Treasury. Again when we see over valuation of the Currency due to scarcity for whatever reason with respect to the others, the definition of deficit always subject to fluctuate which means that we can well release additional funds into the system without seeing of an adverse impact on the Economy to consider it as duly earned although none is responsible for producing it but by the system itself automatically to avert a bad situation from taking effect. Once it is happening so, the generation of the fund as such becomes most legitimate to become a part of the wealth and not a deficit for covering up later. The definition of ‘Deficit’ is therefore subjected to that much of fluctuation.

Again when we do a deeper analysis of the situation, the accumulation of funds from taxing a person due to one’s engagement, is a bare minimum only to affect the reserve anyway but the indirect collection of fund from one on a daily basis is often considerable so long we rightfully engage in buying and selling i.e. through bearing of Taxes. Therefore the more the Public is engaged, the more is the Tax collection accrues to the Government apart from providing of a livelihood to the person concern which however a particular Government in place cannot provide; so long it is under Democratic set-up where only private sector is more responsible to offer such jobs to fill their respective positions to work together against the services provided by the said Institution towards the growth of the Society for filling up the gap of a regular demand or necessity. Since it is a self generating process, it has its own limitation to offer job to any, depending upon on how good a Business is running for providing such facilities to others or us.

During the time of recession, since the movement of goods either that of consumables or other materials become bare minimum, the more restrictions we impose to enforce such actions, the Tax collection by the Government shall suffer the worst. This is however different within a system where communism is under enforcement being both actions are controlled by the Government within the Country but as far as outside transactions are is concern, it bound to suffer equally at par with the others.

Therefore the more we restrict the flow of fund though initiating such steps in Government sectors by way of job cuts, there shall be more squeezes coming in into the system to force the Economy behave more erratic instead of giving of a relief to us. Since the current recession is mainly happening due to shortage of funds in the hands of the Public to spend it unlike the ones we faced earlier where there was over circulation of fund; any drastic jobs cut shall lead to further complication of the situation rather than easing it.

With very remote chance of disbursing the current stock pile of funds by those who are responsible for holding it through arranging of a closer circuit to circulate the fund within it instead of within the Globe, we must not possibly act in a hurry to impose deficit cuts unless we are very sure that the action shall bring out uncirculated funds from within the Country and not create a further scarcity of it in our hands. Therefore, the more we ensure that no illicit goods invade the Market; the Economy within the Country shall regain its health more correctly within a reasonable time frame, leaving the Global Economy as it is which shall only improve once the arrested funds are released by those holding it from its present lock-up position.


Hence it is recommended that we should not resort to job cuts in Government sector but should only cut spending to the extent possible for making up the deficit which too shall have an adverse effect on the overall Economy in view of lesser circulation of fund within the Public if the wealthier section of us doesn’t cooperate in the drive to keep the Economy in a stable condition but hence a stepwise cutting down of spending shall see an adequate improvement in the situation rather than doing it abruptly.


(Dr.M.M.HAZARIKA, PhD)

This "economic" agreement has very sinister goals for Taiwan if you really think about it. As Taiwan becomes more and more dependent on China, it will become gradually absorbed by China. Rather than being beneficial to Taiwan, this agreement is extremely detrimental in the long term. As trade is opened up more and more, the wages of Taiwanese workers, which have always been higher than that of China, will slowly slip to the sub-par standards of the Chinese. What really baffles me is the complete and utter ignorance of democracy demonstrated by Ma Ying-Jeou. His government denied two referendum attempts on such a large issue. To me who lives in British Columbia, and are in the midst of their own referendum attempt over the HST, which is substantially less impacting to the residents of BC than the ECFA to the Taiwanese, it is extremely shocking.

@ #31, I believe that you would count as a mainlander in Taiwan, which is in the clear minority. Most of the Taiwanese, whose ancestors have lived here for many many generations, do NOT consider ourselves as Chinese. Plus, you're saying the Japanese period in Taiwan as if its a bad thing. C'mon, read the history texts. When the Chinese soldiers came to Taiwan, they were absolutely amazed at what the Taiwanese had, such as elevators and their much superior living standards. Without the Japanese, Taiwan would've dwelled at the same level as the Chinese. Not a good thing I'm afraid.

we in the west should butt out and not drive another wedgie between them

Why all the negative comments. Regardless of government agendas or corporate motives, trade is always a step towards codependence among people and nations, a step towards peace. The only criticism I can make is in regards to the common notion that it takes government to facilitate trade, rather, trade happens naturally while any government action can only restrict it.

The World will face 2 united adversaries who are in competetion with the rest
of the World as far as production of cheaper consumer goods is concerned.

This may also be a step towards a reunion between the two giving Taiwan similar
independence as that of Hong Kong, but it will be to the disadvantage of both
the Present-Day-Taiwan and the United States in particular.
U.S. will haveto look for another ally to co-operate militarily with and maintain the the clout in that region.
CHINA has played a very smart "CARD" here and will achieve a total submission
from Taiwan in not very far future.

The U.S. and the West have the naivity of thinking that if you say to your
foes that they are your friends, and try to influence them by trying to
convince them that the Western Capitalism (that we all know has terrible
flows as bad or someitmes worse than those of the communist ones), they will
swallow it with GREAT ENTHUSIASM and put themselves in submission to the West
just because they are mesmerised by the RAZMATAZ, BLING and the BRIGHT LIGHTS
of the Western societies.

The West can not be more wrong, and therefore it has to really shape-up
and try to (I mean really genuinely try to) understand the core values
that are revered by the Eastern Civilisations.

They are Civilisations and not enemies of the World at large.

This will make a very great change in the economies of the rest of the
World, though it will take a couple of years before the first effects
of the change are realised (in form of tougher competetion).

76. At 08:27am on 30 Jun 2010, lordBanners wrote:
"...Since 9/11 we've gone steadily BACKWARD.
More recently Turkmenistan Gas & Oil Pipeline: After NATO occupied Afghanistan, China Negotiated & Built their pipeline from the same source, and started pumping Oil & Gas last year, while we're still Waging War for ours. Yeah,there's our LOVE for Afghanis too.
Similarly with Africa; What we oppressed with Foreign Aid, China is uplifting with Partnerships..."

Smart words.
Pity that the brainwashed public can't comprehend it and can't do anything about it...

I feel I must take exception with many of the learned and erudite contributors here. China is not a Communist State. The simplest explanation for Communism is that everyone puts into the system what he or she can and takes out what he or she needs. This requires everyone's strengths to be identified and harnassed. It also requires everyone to have a say in the running of the community. I will agree that China is closer to a working communism than Russia was, but it also seems to understand that there is a cycle that allows the country to become a major strength in the world. The West (esp USA and UK) have had a market economy and need to move through a central position to socialism and even close to communism, to readjust the wealth distribution, and the rich amongst us won't let that happen so we stagnate. China is at that socialist communism place and is slowly moving toward a more capitalist view, meaning it will be much more vital and dynamic and will be the only major power on the planet. At that point, if it has worked everything out correctly, we'll be speaking Panglish and enjoying a safer life. If it's got things wrong then America will start a nuclear war in desperation and our world will die.

This is simply a tiny manoeuver in the much larger ballet that is world politics.

"89. At 3:07pm on 30 Jun 2010, teedoff wrote:
I will agree that China is closer to a working communism than Russia was, but it also seems to understand that there is a cycle that allows the country to become a major strength in the world. The West (esp USA and UK) have had a market economy and need to move through a central position to socialism and even close to communism, to readjust the wealth distribution, and the rich amongst us won't let that happen so we stagnate."

The last desperate attempts from deniers to explan the failure of communism: 'real' communism has never been implemented. How do you explain the thriving economy in China since they allowed capitalism in?

The trade pact between China and Taiwan is the beginning of a thaw in the otherwise hostile relationship between the two countries.As regards political ideology, China and Taiwan are poles apart. But trade knows no frotier of politics.This was demonstrated by the booming bilateral trade between the USA and the USSR, between the USA and China and again between China and Taiwan. Duty free entry of hundreds of goods between China and Taiwan may bring the two countries closer and eventually dismantle the tariff wall altogether. China and Taiwan have common laguage and common cultural heritage.The resultant increase in bilateral trade will benefit both the countries.Possibly in the short-term, Taiwan may be a greater beneficiary economically, but China's strategy lies in the long-run improvemement in political ties, eventually paving the way to unification of the two Chinas.The unification of the two Vietnams did take place, and the possibility of unification of two Chinas too may not be ruled out.
Military victory by North Vietnam was crucial to the unification of the two Vietnams.But thinking of succh a military intervention by China is fraught with dangers. Taiwan is one of the closest ally of the United States as Israel is. Being a small country, Taiwan will have to employ its diplomacy to counterbalance China's great advantage of numerical strength. Given complete undertanding amongst the people of two Chinas, the miracle of their unification may some day happen.

It won't have much effect on China's long term ambitions for asserting political control over Taiwan but in the meantime it's better for everyone if they're exchanging goods and services instead of the occasional missile or artillery fire.

90. At 3:56pm on 30 Jun 2010, Sir Lagerlout wrote:
"...'real' communism has never been implemented. How do you explain the thriving economy in China since they allowed capitalism in?"

Deng Xiaoping, Margaret Thatcher and G.W.Bush:
- Recognition of money and wealth again, e.g of the rewarding economy.
- Releasing HK, the exclusive broker and export hub
- WTO membership against the discretion of the Chinese government.

Yes, this is a right step in right direction.other countries should learn this theory of co-existance

Who stands to gain ? Both China and Taiwan. Taiwan is advanced technologically and China has restive manpower that it wants to provide employment for. Put the two together and they will have more product to sell to the rest of the world.
This is what globalisation means. The West should wake up to this, smartly. We have to change.

Taiwan has already heavily invested in China, for instance Foxconn who manufactures Apple products in China to name a few.
In the long term, cooperation between Taiwan and China will lead to stability across the strait.
The USA does not have to lose out. They can still sell weapons to Taiwain. They can double their money by selling the same weapons to China. There will be no imbalance of power and everyone is a winner.

Q: Do you live in China or Taiwan? Who stands to gain from the new trade pact?

A: No

Q: Do you have any concerns about the deal?

A: No

"How will the trade pact change China-Taiwan relations?" -BBC

Perhaps the new trade pact now exits because China-Taiwan relations already have changed. For instance, several decades ago the differences between the governments of China and Taiwan included some sharp differences, yet in the years since then perhaps such differences could have become not so sharp. Today, moreover, apparently the relationship between China and Taiwan has improved to a point where both can agree to agree, at least in regard to a politically neutral substance such as money, and that new relationship could be of mutual benefit, to both nations.

What happens in the future remains to be seen, but for now all appears to go well.

Look this is a silly question. China will shortly be able to buy Taiwan whatever the bankrupt US says. So what we are looking for is a reasonable deal for Taiwan to become part of China. What else should we be thinking, does the BBC have a party line that we should be following as loyal British citizens?

I can't see what the debate is all about. Taiwan has always been Chinese as was Hong Kong. Both were only temporarily 'non Chinese' for a while during the cold war and empire days. Given the stance of the bankrupt American Government regarding other peoples business I would have thought that the people of Taiwan could make a decision regarding their own future without the USA sticking their noses in.