Do we need a strategy to deal with gangs?

Maybe a campaign to make street gangs uncool would be a big help. They're popularised in rap music and various movies and computer games. Teens are easily influenced by such things.

i think we need more for teenagers to do instead of discarding them as all been yobs. maybe if we payed more attention to them and catered for there needs we wouldn't have all these problems!

I think there is never a day goes by without the BBC featuring 'news' based on a report by somebody or some body criticising some aspect of Britain or its government.

Why do you do this? It's intensely tedious, and other broadcasters in other countries don't seem to feel the need to do it.

Regarding the actual issue - isn't this part of the permanent debate about law and order, crime and society, that we have, ad nauseam?

Although in our area we don't have gangs as such, the rise of youth crime and disorder is apparent anywhere in the country.
I spoke to police about the matter a while ago and he explained that as a general rule it is a way of life. The parents don't care and have no respect and the kids have no respect so there is no mentality to be respectful.
How you solve it, I don't know.
I wish I felt I could do something without feeling like I would be the one in trouble with police.
Alternativley don't do anything about it...if people want to join gangs let them. Let them sort it out like the animals do and if they fight to the death then so be it !

Individuals of the same age as me will not back down their aggressive, dangerous and brazen demeanor due to a a key aspect. Other people that show similar traits, such as violent behavior, being involved with gangs and drug related crimes, will always pose a threat to those that show they're weaker than themselves. If the young individuals do not get involved with these gangs they're at a risk to their own well-being, as well as their families'. Stopping the situation involving gang related crime will not happen for a considerably long time. Each individual will need to drop their guard at the same time to not pose a threat to each other; by simple cause of natural selection, if one individual was not to lose their violent demeanor they will continue to pose a threat to other people, thus creating the initial problem (Individuals feeling threatened and joining the side of the culprit).

Get their parents in to have major brain surgery to fix their inability to take responsibility for their children. Maybe when that's fixed a more responsible child will hit the streets. In the meantime, when they're caught for violent crimes give them a sentence that fits the crime, if they go to prison for 10 years they should do 10 years and no luxuries when they're inside. Prison is supposed to be a punishment not a vacation, so follow monesterial practices, make them pray for foregiveness for the crime they have committed, provide them with just the bare necessities to survive.

The rise of gangs would appear to coincide with the flood of immigrants into this country, they would appear to be one of the benefits of multicultural society - which we could do without.

Hmm.

The report is incorrect to castigate the police for focussing on dealing with criminal activity rather than the 'welfare' of those individuals who have chosen to join gangs. The police are employed to catch criminals not to worry about why they have chosen to offend.

However, the role of other organisations in both influncing young people to make sensible choices such as not getting involved with gangs in the first place and helping those who have made poor choices turn their lives around does need review.

Prisons and probation officers can only work with gang members who have been convicted. But it is their job to help convicts to reform and become law-abiding citizens - irrespective of whether or not gang membership is involved. Is there any information on recidivism based on whether or not the convict has been a gang member?

Parents, schools and society in general have their part to play in promoting the idea that gang membership is detremental and in providing valid alternatives - societal groupings and opportunities that are appealing to young people and do not lead to crime. Not every young person wants to be a Scout or join the cadets or play in a sports team, but every youngster ought to have the opportunity to do so. There are other leisure activities too - musical, car or bike maintenance workshops, growing plants on an allotment, developing craft skills, playing Warhammer even! - but they need someone to organise them and somewhere to meet.

Academia has a role too. Can sociologists tell us what makes gang membership attractive, and what sort of youngster wants to join one? That can suggest suitable alternative pastimes to offer and target groups of young people to whom the offer should be made and to whom appropriate activities will appeal.

I had hoped that we had seen the last of the professional apologists so beloved of the past government, obviously not.

We already have a way of dealing with those convicted of offences as part of a gang - it's called prison! Get rid of the social workers and give them sentences that have their friends chins hitting the floor instead of smacking them on the wrist and telling them not to be naughty again!

More wasted money from a government that promised an end to waste.

I agree with the part which says many join gangs to protect themselves; I’ve come across loads of cases of bully victims joining local gangs and becoming bullies to make themselves less of a target.

What needs to be done to tackle gangs is to specifically target the peer pressure that forces so many to go down the gang route, specific tackling of the weak mentality that prevents so many from saying no and far harsher penalties for those who commit criminal acts while part of gangs.

Soft actions will not solve these issues and if you continually let them off the hook every time they do something illegal or criminal they'll only get the message that it's OK to continue in this life style because people can't do anything to stop them.

Youth crime in this country is appalling. Youngsters have little or no respect for authority, their elders or their surroundings. Anti-social behaviour has reached epidemic proportions, consigning most elderly people to incarcertation in their own homes. It is tragic that this is a uniquely-British phenomenon.
Having travelled extensivley around the world with HM Forces, this just does not happen in other countries. My town centre is a combat zone every weekend.
We have lost the fight and our streets to foul youths. We need far more prisons, so that when these yobs and thugs become adult criminals, we can put them exactly where they belong.
Thanks to the PC-brigade for removing discipline, authority and respect from every tier of our society. You can be really proud of your achievements!!!!!!!

If kids join gangs out of fear, why are they so afraid? Why do they not fear the law more? What can be done to make them fear the law more?

Talk about stating the obvious! Of course youngsters join gangs for "criminal" protection against injury. What the police fail to do is combat these thugs because they are too busy harrassing ordinary people who make the odd mistake.Im sure a law could be brought forward in the commons to outlaw gangs with long jail sentences for those who belong to one.Get rid of the gang culture and you will get rid of much of the crime committed.Isn't it amazing how the police can become celebs on television hunting down very bad motorists who dont pay their road tax but shy away from real criminals who rob,rape and even murder most of which is down to gangs. I thought the police were paid by the state which means WE the taxpayer are the employer and should say what they do and where those resources are placed not a small number of overpaid civil servants(hopefully soon to lose their jobs!)

Oh and to add to my earlier comment there should be more leeway for members of the public to get involved in taking a stand against local gang activity. So many people are put off confronting youths because they fear prosecution and reprisals for doing so.

It's bad enough that they often have to face down a whole group of them when they do try and take action but that they are often arrested and prosecuted when they do. Even worse they become the target of comebacks by those local gangs and little is done to put a stop to it.

Making sure that all children have opportunities to engage in other activities must be the best way to divert them from anti-social or criminal activities.

Facilities should range from well designed and maintained play grounds for young children, to all sorts of sports, music, science, arts, drama, debating and social clubs for teenagers, and they should all be absolutely free, linked to schools, and run by a mixture of volunteer and paid staff. Money spent in this way will improve the quality of peoples' lives and save a large part of the future expenditure on the police and criminal justice system.

Unfortunately these things are regarded by many as low priority and in the present masochistic mode of national government, are likely to be early casualties of the current austerity.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Bring back the birch

When you are young nothing is as powerful in your life as peer pressure. Parents and the police don't even come close. Yet it these very people who have to find a way of saving the potential gang member from themselves.

There is only so much any outside agency(ie police) can do. The people with the closest access to these young people is their own family. The responsibility really does lay with them.

Whenever there is teenager tragically knifed or shot to death on our streets we see distraught mothers weeping and telling us that their dead child was an 'angel'. These so called angels should be kept closer to the bosom of their extended family and hopefully safe from the gang culture.

I would remind parents that not only do you owe it to the life you brought into the world to keep them out of harms way but that your child could so very easily end up harming others.

The only way I can see that potential gang members can be helped is to fill their free time. Sport springs to mind - it would channel their energy into something other than violence. The teaching of practical skills is also a way of giving the youngsters self esteem and at the same time keep them off the streets - at least for a few hours a week. Failing this a simple answer might be a curfew in areas where this is a particular problem because - if they are at home they can't hurt or be hurt.

Gang members should routinely be shown the victims of gang warfare. Surely the sight of dead, dying and disabled people of their own age might make them think twice. Prove to them that being a gang member is a sign of weakness rather than strength.

Finally this love affair with violence on our cinema and TV screens does nothing but glorify violence. Even computer games buy into the killing culture and being brought up on a diet of kill or be killed the young become almost desensitised to it.

As an unintended side effect of child and vulnerable people protection legislation most of us adults are afraid to have anything to to with children.

This legislation is necessary but needs updating in its operation.

This has resulted in their isolation driving them into gangs for social reasons and in some areas for protection from other gangs.

If they want to fight, they can be enrolled in the army and sent out to Afghanistan. Except I don't think our troops want to be lumbered with such people, so it's not an option.

I think the best thing to do is make gangs uncool. This will be difficult as well.

So I guess we'll just have to shoot them on sight. Maybe we could capture them, set them loose in the countryside and let the fox hunting groups deal with them, seeing as fox hunting is banned.

Or we could provide facilities and amenities to create a positive group atmosphere instead of a negative street gang society. Youth clubs, for example, and sporting facilities and local leagues (football, basketball, etc) for competition (is competition still un-PC?). Father figures are also required, so fathers should be forced to be involved in their childrens' upbringing even if separated from the mother - this might mean changing the law to give fathers more rights. And how about letting older children get involved in adult activities such as accompanying a parent to the pub to introduce them to such environments responsibly, rather than banning them from everything, until they feel disenfranchised from society?

Move to the country?

How can we deal with gangs? Very easy that one. Allow society to police itself without villifying the decent members of society who go out of their way to maintain peace.

What do I mean? Let the large and burley MEN of our society (the ones that care) to treat the gangs with the same as the gangs dish out. That would be fear, intimidation and, where appropriate, a good hiding as it's the only thing they respond to. These burely MEN then should be allowed to carry on without fear of being arrested by the very people they emply to police the streets i.e. the police.

I wouldn't worry too much about the knee jerk touchy feely trendy wendys as they have been prisoners in their own homes for a generation now and are largely unseen after sun set.

It's time to take back our society and allow the decent, honest and hard working MEN of society the space to clean up the street.

A yob is only a yob if he or she has a mind to be one.
The best strategy we can have is to flog the gits as there is too much softly softy which only helps the yob and criminal element to grow.
Bring back corporal and capital punishment and make the punishment fit the crime instead of rewarding them with room, entertainment, education, 3 square meals a day, sky telly, wages and free board.
I am a pensioner and can't afford the above perhaps if I robbed a bank I would be better off?

Teens turn to violence due to unemployment, lack of education opportunities, and addiction to alcohol and potent street drugs. The group who supports allows them to survive in a hostile, avaricious society. Social programs promoting religion, job training, and university credits seriously forwards the prospects of the underprivileged.

The strategy for dealing with gangs,should read how do we as a society measure up,how come we have so many pregnancies,when the pill has been around for 50 years,we only care about ourselves,dump rubbish large/small,with no regard to the places we live,we enjoy ourselves with no regard to the welfare of others,consumerism is our only goal,football is our religeon and idolism,we have laws and insurance to guard one against oneself,we expect to join the armed services and not be injured,never mind killed,ask yourself where would the Douglas Bader"s be today,an employer cant take a chance due to litigation.Gangs! are a reflection of the society weve created.

Do we need a strategy to deal with gangs?

You bet - it's called JAIL. With solitary confinement and hard labour where necessary - and a complete absence of drugs, TVs, mobiles etc.

I'm guessing that unless you live in a pretty deprived area of one of our major cities, most of us commenting have had absolutely zero contact with culture and even less of a clue what it involves.

The Daily Mail and Express use this sort of thing to reinforce their 'Britain is rubbish' philosophy but the truth is that gang culture is geographically isolated and has absolutely no impact on most of our live.

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Get rid of violent computer games,hoodies and give these people two years national service.....

Yes absolutely we need a strategy.

Actions taken should be:

+ Effective role models from ethnic minorities
+ Long term penalties for knife crime and assault - where gang related double the sentence
+ Visible and effective policing 24/7
+ Intensive parenting skills for families whose children are identified as likely to become gang members
+ An ending of political correctness around the issue
+ Intensive relationship management/treaching in primary schools in the local areas affected by gangs.
+ Intensive conflict resolution courses for teenages and their parents
+ Compulsory conflict resolution training for all those convicted of gang related activities
+ Work fare for all those convicted of gang related violence
+ Intensive sex and drug education in areas blighted by gang violence
+ End to housing provision to any single woman with or without a child who is under 21.

Unfortunately, this issue has its roots in poor parenting, poverty, racism, poor education, appalling housing design and management. This is allied to low self esteem and life expectancy that is endemic in gang blighted communities.

I have just read post number 7 from Grainofsand, and do not know if to laugh or cry, IMMIGRANTS!

Obviously immigrants are responsible for all crime, bad weather, pot holes in roads, climate change, the economy, Englands World Cup performance, and any other unpopular aspect of current life.

What a pathetic, narrow minded, predudiced, bigotted attitude.

Two years National service in Afganistan for all emergrants and gangs so they can find purpose in society again...

just like all my war plans that won the Iraq war & new strategy's that will win the Afghanistan war. test all police gun barrel shapes, they give the gun to a cop. the shape of that gun barrel is his name. if anyone gets shot or a ambush happen'D & bullets get sprayed everywhere, get the bullets & run them throw the system.

just like what i said to do in Iraq & Afghanistan. i said to do in America.

all new guns soled, must have the gun barrel shape taken first. then when he or she buys the gun, the shape of that gun barrel his his name, is him.
also that they should over 1 year, force everyone to bring in the old registered guns, that will be tested & run throw the system & kept on file.
this will bush mass people that have killed with there guns, & will help but people that shot other people.
as they say, the first 48hours is the time line to busting / getting them.
ether way, they will no who to talk to right away & see if the owner has any connection the the person killed.

this would help buy 60%.

the American government don't care about it. they only did that in Iraq, with my strategy, of testing all guy barrel shapes and giving the gun a 100% name.

so then if anyone gets court with a unregistered gun, they get a massive fine. / if on government payments, they cut you back 35%. if you have lots of money, they lose 25% of it.
that will stop people pore or rich from having illegal guns.
maybe first time warning, second time big hit to there income for 4 months, then 3rd time, massive amount of money taken for 7 years

And don't for get, they now who has a gun registered

The police are the main problem. For most people, most of the time, they are an expensive irrelevance, unwilling to attend incidents, and, when they do, rude to the law-abiding, irrelevant to the law-breaking.

Then there is the 'children as victims' culture, where children are very aware of their rights, but not of their responsibilities, making classroom discipline difficult.

And of course, we have imported large immigrant communities, who seem to be much more likely to be in prison than the rest of us (probably institutional racism, but just maybe a cultural issue).

And then we have the welfare dependency culture feeding through into a general atmosphere of irresponsibility.

But really, this is anything but a uniquely British problem, and the report reeks of yet another Britain is Useless fest, generated by more handwringers in search of a role.

The only point of this report is to keep its creators in work.

Come on, BBC, what will tomorrow's 'Quango in Search of a Mission' report be?

7. At 11:01am on 23 Jun 2010, grainsofsand wrote:
The rise of gangs would appear to coincide with the flood of immigrants into this country, they would appear to be one of the benefits of multicultural society - which we could do without.
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You are aware that you are going to be hauled over the coals by every left-wing thinking commentator for that comment don't you?

The unfortunate irony of that is that you are actually correct! Whilst I am well aware that gangs existed here in the UK well before the arrival of mass immigration into this country, they were underground and generally kept themselves to themselves.

However, having lived in London for the past 10 years I know of more than a dozen people who have been robbed, intimidated, offered drugs, coerced, insulted, threatened, assaulted and hospitalized by gangs. The make up of these gangs is that most appear to come from a non-white, non-British background.

We have tried successive attempts to coerce these people into a life a civility and decency and at every turn it has failed. Perhaps now is the time to fight fire with fire.

I would see the parents (often either completely feckless or unawares) punished alongside their offspring for the crimes of their offspring. In the US they have a system where if you are not a born US citizen and you commit crime, you are deported back to your country of origin, something we would do well to introduce here. I would also favour the removal of the parents in such cases

As for home grown gang members, I fear the only real way to deal with them is a full on assault. These gang members often scream "human rights!" when brought to book for what they have done. Its time to remove this ability and make them atone for the crimes in the harshest manner possible.

Make being a gang member simply not worth the effort for the repercussions of getting caught.

I can't see any other way working

A softly-softly rehabilitative approach is often seen as weakness by gang members and treated as nothing more than a joke or an opportunity for a free ride.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

12. At 11:10am on 23 Jun 2010, in_the_uk wrote:

"If kids join gangs out of fear, why are they so afraid? Why do they not fear the law more? What can be done to make them fear the law more?"


Your first question leads to two possible ways forward:

a) make them fear the law more than they fear gangs
b) stop the cause of the fear in the first place

You have chosen a). However, it is very difficult to get someone to fear the law more than they fear for their own life. Unless, of course, you want to make gang membership punishable by death.

Perhaps we should have a look at b) and see if that is an easier solution. Provide young people with safe, secure areas to meet their friends (like old-fashioned youth clubs). Try to raise awareness for parents that talking to their teenagers will help, as often teenagers are very confused about their feelings and don't know how to deal with the massive physical and psycological challenges of puberty.

It is worrying that mental health support charities, such as Samaritans, are being increasingly contacted by children and young people who self harm. As a society we are failing our children by either spoiling them so they can't fend for themselves, or providing no support, again meaning they cannot fend for themselves.

#7 You imply that gangs are associated with our mult-cultural society.

Surely we are not allowed to even think this are we? And you have the bravery to commit it to black and white on screen.

However, this is an over simplification.

We have Japanese immigrants - how much trouble do they cause? Chinese? Germans?

I propose that from here, we follow the example of grainsofsand and say it like it is.

Just survey the shootings and gang memberships & you get close to an answer of the root causes.

Not until we quantify the cause can we understand the effects and hope to cure the ills.

This is not intended to be racist by the way, in my opinion the worst offenders are white (non)working class males and females.

Boot camp! Get them to clean canals, plant trees, make them proud of the Country and themselves. Who can do this, bring the Army back from Afghanistan forget wars and use the Forces to run camps and control our borders.

Birch then lock 'em up and throw away the key! Job done.

Put them in cages vacated by the closure of zoos?

Put them all in the army and send them to Afghanistan

Respect innit

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Grainofsand @ no 7.

No I'd have to disagree. Kids/youths have always got together in gangs. It's not related to immigration. Have you heard of the Mods and Rockers?

Now, we may have a different kind of gang culture that's evolved with immigration but we have always had one.

What needs to be tackled is the root causes of anti social behavour and the knife crime culture.

I dont have any immediate answers but I'm sure they lie much, much deeper in society.

32. At 11:42am on 23 Jun 2010, Rob jones wrote:
Two years National service in Afganistan for all emergrants and gangs so they can find purpose in society again...

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Ok,

We've blamed immigrants, we've suggested bringing back flogging , we've got national service.

All i need now is for someone to demand the return of the death penalty and i can complete my Daily Mail bingo card , claim my prize and stop playing.

30. At 11:41am on 23 Jun 2010, DibbySpot wrote:

"+ End to housing provision to any single woman with or without a child who is under 21."

While I agree with almost all of your points, can I please point out that it takes two people to make a baby, and pregnancy is not the sole responsibility of the female. How about the fathers being forced to pay for the upkeep of their children?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Teenagers need better role models, they need more supervision and support from their parents, there need to be more clubs and extracurricular activities for youngsters to take part in and stave off boredom, policing needs to be more effective and gangs need to be less glamorised in the media.

A news item recently reported a gang who stabble a marine and his father who had gone to protect his sister who was being attacked on the front path of their own house.

The police actually did something for a change and arrested a seventeen year old boy/youth/child who cannot be named for legal reasons.

When thugs can be protected by the law like this what makes anyone think that gangs can be tackled?

A seventeen year old is not a child, whether he goes round shooting or stabbing people or not. If he's old enough to be married, have children, drive a car, smoke, he's old enough to be held responsilbe for his crimes and be named so the public know who he is.

Perhaps the answer will be to close all Social Work departments down, stop teaching Sociology at universities and acknowledge the reality of life.

Evil people who go around attacking others should get what they deserve. If the police don't want to get involved let them carry on harrassing ordinary people and have a 'citizens' militia' of sorts patrolling the streets.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#29. At 11:40am on 23 Jun 2010, Rob jones wrote:
“Get rid of violent computer games,hoodies and give these people two years national service.....”

Getting rid of violent computer games will not solve anything; they’ll simply get their violence kicks from elsewhere. And that even assumes they are playing violent video games in the first place.

38. At 11:58am on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:

This is not intended to be racist by the way, in my opinion the worst offenders are white (non)working class males and females.

=============================

Of course it's not racist. You're blaming whites. That's OK man.

When i was a teen i was the local public enemy number 1.
I must have recorded over 200 crimes.
Would you like to know what stopped me??????
The chance to go to work and earn a few quid for myself.
Get rid of all this cheap foreign labour and give our kids a chance to stand on their own feet.
You would be amazed how many kids would rather take their girlfriends out on Saturday night (with their own money)than hanging around with their bum mates looking for someone to rob.
It took me one wage packet to know what i preferred!

43. At 12:06pm on 23 Jun 2010, exlabour wrote:
Train urban foxes to sniff them out and savage them
That'll please the anti hunting lobby and the cuddly animal brigade.
Get the foxes to work
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An excellent point. Where I live, all the foxes spend their time smoking, drinking and watching Sky TV on their 50 inch plasma screens. Yet I never see them on my daily commute to and from work It's about time honest,decent, hard-working tax-payers like me were relieved of the burden of funding their lazy, profligate lifestyles.

and no national service or corporal punishment will not work! we are in 2010 not 1930!!

It's interesting to see the mention of '... give teenagers something to do'. This is frankly a load of rubbish! Where I live there are countless youth clubs, organisations, sports clubs / centres, and no end of other stuff for kids to do.

The problem is that many kids see these places as being boring and uncool. Due to the complete breakdown of discipline in the home and schools, coupled with the irresponsibility of parents, it's now cooler to smash windows, damage property, smoke, drink, hurl verbal abuse at people, and beat people up.

If kids aren't brought up to know the difference between right and wrong using methods of discipline that impose mild pain, shock tactics, or severe restrictions on their freedom, what do we expect?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"#22. At 11:31am on 23 Jun 2010, Shoogly Peg wrote:
How can we deal with gangs? Very easy that one. Allow society to police itself without villifying the decent members of society who go out of their way to maintain peace.

What do I mean? Let the large and burley MEN of our society (the ones that care) to treat the gangs with the same as the gangs dish out. That would be fear, intimidation and, where appropriate, a good hiding as it's the only thing they respond to. These burely MEN then should be allowed to carry on without fear of being arrested by the very people they emply to police the streets i.e. the police.

I wouldn't worry too much about the knee jerk touchy feely trendy wendys as they have been prisoners in their own homes for a generation now and are largely unseen after sun set.

It's time to take back our society and allow the decent, honest and hard working MEN of society the space to clean up the street."

Why not make these "burly MEN" easily identifiable, dress them in black or dark blue maybe, and give them a sturdy hat to waer to protect their heads, they could have a badge to further aid identification and encourage 'esprite de corp' - HANG ON A MINUTES.....WAIT.....WAIT......I know lets call them......the police?!!!!!

We have a PATHETIC SOFT UNDER BELLY in UK regarding so-called post code gangs?

Most new recruits as gang members have no idea what they are doing. All they know is they will make money for their brothers from drugs sold to their brothers, and others, within their post code while claiming unemployment benefits while living at home with their mums or dads who may or may not know, or care?

ALL gang culture in UK is ALL about drugs/drug money laundering AND an 'American import' and bizarrely a pyramid drug selling scheme?

PLEASE PRIME MINISTER GIVE MORE POWER TO THE POLICE TO ATTACK ALL GANGS AND ANY ASSOCIATES?!! STOP BEING PC - GET THE PCS IN THERE?

54. At 12:23pm on 23 Jun 2010, Mr Cholmondley-Warner wrote:

===================


woof woof!

Stop paying the urban poor to breed.

well all kids with guns on them or known to be in gangs, should be forced into the army.
Even make more smaller army units to send 50 people to a different army group.
make shore if you know what gang group they are from, that they don't put them together.

the army is the only way.
put them in jail, they will come out 5 times worse. send them to the army, they will do it hard, and, learn respect.

the key is to making at least 100 small army bases with 3,000 troops in each one. then in the big bases, just add more scum to the numbers of troops.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Perhaps you should stop calling them gangs.......was the author a loner when he was young? You act like everyone is the blood and crips. If you repeat a lie long enough it becomes true and if you tell children they're thugs and drug addicts through soaps, music and articles like this they will behave how they're told.

Outlets in the media like the BBC create and compound the issue and are totally counter-productive.

Stop demonising children, present a positive image in the media and let children hang around with their friends and perhaps children wont act up to your stereotype.

It's interesting to see the mention of '... give teenagers something to do'. This is frankly a load of rubbish! Where I live there are countless youth clubs, organisations, sports clubs / centres, and no end of other stuff for kids to do.
Andy Smith, Thats a load of rubbish.
All these things cost MONEY!
Most of these kids have none and their parents can't afford it.
Give the kids a chance to earn some money and you'll see a world of difference!

Round them up, put them all on a boat with holes in and sail them out to sea

As ever, we dance around the issue and try to treat the symptoms.

The problem is overpopulation. It’s always overpopulation.

Urban pressures leading to crime – overpopulation.
Neglected children due to parents working too hard – hard work is due to scarce resources which is due to overpopulation.
Lenient social policies – due to the need to meet the disparate needs of a growing populace; again, overpopulation.
Not enough for kids to do? Due to too many people to provide activities for.

Find a palatable way to package some form of licensed breeding and you have the answer. Anything else is so much hissing in the wind.

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From what I’ve heard it’s a lot easier to get into a gang than to get out. Inadvertently (I think) the report may have hit a KEY point right on the mark:
Attempts to tackle teenage gangs have missed opportunities to RESCUE young people from gangs i.e. get them out once they’re in.
In regards to why youngsters join gangs, it's evident (I think) that gang membership is the closest these young people are going to come to a sense of family and protection. Youngsters often realise too late what they've got themselves into. So gang-stereotyping can be misleading.
As far as a strategy to deal with gangs, youngsters wanting to escape need a "contact". A person who will 'RESCUE" them from the gangster neighborhood, take them someplace safe, set up assistance and listen to what they have to say - which will likely be helpful in dealing with future gang intervention.

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45. At 12:07pm on 23 Jun 2010, whiler wrote:
32. At 11:42am on 23 Jun 2010, Rob jones wrote:
Two years National service in Afganistan for all emergrants and gangs so they can find purpose in society again...

----

Ok,

We've blamed immigrants, we've suggested bringing back flogging , we've got national service.

All i need now is for someone to demand the return of the death penalty and i can complete my Daily Mail bingo card , claim my prize and stop playing.

------------------------------------------------------------

So we can assume that yuo have no idea of how to solve it - you just criticise those with a proposal.

While I am not a reader of the The Mail, we need a solution, this is out of control.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

52. At 12:22pm on 23 Jun 2010, exlabour wrote:
38. At 11:58am on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:

This is not intended to be racist by the way, in my opinion the worst offenders are white (non)working class males and females.

=============================

Of course it's not racist. You're blaming whites. That's OK man.
=====================================

Exactly my point brother, we are not allowed to blame any one else!!

Sorry if my point was not made

So far we've had:
1. Ban hoodies
2. Ban computer games
3. Ban rap music
4. Bring back national service
5. Allow 'burly' gentlemen to have at 'em

Very interesting insights into your own personal lives, I think.

The reason there are so many gangs is because people crave status. I mean (almost) everyone wants to be noticed. A little bit of bling and a 'crew' makes these children feel important - and violence comes from the need to reaffirm their 'importance' regularly, much like an addiction.

It was the same when I was a kid, I had a group of good friends who I liked to impress by climbing that little bit higher up the tree or jumping my bike off an even bigger ramp. But then I was 12 years old. As I got older I grew out of this show-off mentality, unfortunately the children in gangs can't seem to do that - at least not without parental support or a severe corrective shock.

The two worst possible things that could happen, in my opinion, would be to force gang members to join the army or allow vigilantism to be used as a 'solution'.

The British Army is one of the elite fighting forces in the world, with highly disciplined professional volunteer soldiers. Is anyone seriously suggesting sending ill disciplined oiks into their ranks when they don't even want to be there? It will disrupt the cohesion of the army and train gang members how to kill! The one possible benefit is that somehow the army could 'change' these lads into good, descent citizens. That'd be wishful thinking in many cases, no doubt.

Vigilantism never 'worked' in the old days - anyone who believes that is wearing rose tinted spectacles. Turning the streets into a battlefield with packs of burly 'nice' fellas attacking gang members is a horrendous idea. Sounds suspiciously like gang warfare to me. And we're all in opposition to gangs, aren't we?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Simple - lock them up until they develop into useful sensible citizens. Problem solved. If they stay feral then leave them locked up indefinitely.

7. At 11:01am on 23 Jun 2010, grainsofsand wrote:
The rise of gangs would appear to coincide with the flood of immigrants into this country, they would appear to be one of the benefits of multicultural society - which we could do without.

Last time I checked the gang that kicked Gary Newlove to death in Warrington were all white, same with the gang that shot Rhys Jones in Liverpool. There's been a gang problem in this country for decades. It's just that it's publicised now so we're all aware of it. When we're not aware of something we don't notice it, it's a "perception is reality" mindset. Race has nothing to do with it. Cultural influences from the USA rather than immigration are more likely to blame. It's obvious a good tabloid reader never misses a chance to blame immigration

Semisatanic @ no. 53.

yup that would help and it's a good point. But we also need to get parents to take more responsibility for the kids who are to young to work too.

Unless you suggest putting them all in work houses... (is that supposed to be a joke I wonder?)

it is simply too late. i have travelled a lot of the world an now live in holland and i have to say the anti social behavior levels in britain are just crazy...the politically correct crew can be proud of themselves for that complete lack of disiplin in children an young adults today.

Just to add football hooligans were another manifestation of gang culture and that is something that did originate here, so again blaming immigration is a red herring.

The truth cannot be told here.
Mention T Blair and uncontrolled immigration, by emptying the polish prisons, and the BBC doesn't like it so they wont print it.

"#38. At 11:58am on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:
#7 You imply that gangs are associated with our mult-cultural society.

Surely we are not allowed to even think this are we? And you have the bravery to commit it to black and white on screen.

However, this is an over simplification.

We have Japanese immigrants - how much trouble do they cause? Chinese? Germans?

I propose that from here, we follow the example of grainsofsand and say it like it is.

Just survey the shootings and gang memberships & you get close to an answer of the root causes.

Not until we quantify the cause can we understand the effects and hope to cure the ills.

This is not intended to be racist by the way, in my opinion the worst offenders are white (non)working class males and females."
_________________________________________________________________________

You very nearly made a valid point, but the sub-liminal liberal in you 'bottled out' at the end and you finished with a comment, which may or may not be true, that is clearly at odds with everything else you have said and not supported by the evidence you have mentioned.

SOMETHING has to be done. This kids are just wasting their lives on false dreams feed by poor education and junk media rammed down their throats. I just wish the pink media would do their part (its not all about the government boys) and accept they ARE resonsible for what they feed into OUR kids minds. Junk in - junk out

65. At 12:32pm on 23 Jun 2010, Semisatanic wrote:
It's interesting to see the mention of '... give teenagers something to do'. This is frankly a load of rubbish! Where I live there are countless youth clubs, organisations, sports clubs / centres, and no end of other stuff for kids to do.
Andy Smith, Thats a load of rubbish.
All these things cost MONEY!
Most of these kids have none and their parents can't afford it.
Give the kids a chance to earn some money and you'll see a world of difference!
====================================
They all seem to have money fro beer, fags and betting, to use while watchimg 50" plasma screens in their subsidised housing

When kids are growing up they want to be like their mates and not like their parents. This presumably means the offspring of Toffs at Eton. The exception being that they want to be rich like their parents but still want to rebel.

Look at Bertie Wooster for enlightenment.

The 'Angry Young Men' of the 1950s found their rebellion led them away from their working class backgrounds to university and a more affluent lifestyle afterwards.

Those that couldn't make it and were stuck saw future life as a long bleak experience.

'Saturday Night and Sunday Morning'

What do today's young people do to satisfy their rebellious streak?

If they can be taken out of their environment and really challenged they will learn to contain the violent side of rebellion. Hanging on a rope on a vertical mountain side will teach genuine 'respect' for the environment they're in, the rope that's holding them and the man on the other end of the rope. They learn trust and they learn that they can do things that are challenging, exhilirating and totally different from what they would normally experience.

As long as politicians ignore ways of positively using youthful energy and insist on leaving them to find out from their 'mates' the problem will never go.

As long as these youths see gang membership and violence as a legitimate 'rite of passage' they will continue.

Let them live dangerously but channel that danger away from third parties and make it a personal challenge for them to overcome and move on.

It is a fact of life that in every society there will always be those who will never be anything other than violent criminals. No amount of punishment or so called rehabitualistion will ever change them. The sensible thing to do is eliminate them ( to save on a lifetime of pointless expense ) but they should never ever be allowed freedom in our society.
Most of the gangs that exist, are run by 2 maybe 3 such people. There may be a dozen or more hangers on all forming the "Gang". If we remove the ringleaders permanently, never to be seen again, then the majority of those remaining have the option to redeem themselves and rejoin society, or follow their so called icons into oblivion.
Until we as a society face up to the crime haven that the UK has become and realistically try to do something about it, nothing will change, and conditions and crime will continue to deteriorate. The pc brigade have lost, their gentle handed touch does not work, and the numbers increase. At least with execution, the numbers reduce.

Start getting tough on crime and these layabouts. The problem is, the UK has become so namby pampby to criminals etc it becomes cool to go to jail (where they have a cushy time anyway) and they become the victims. Make prison a terrible experience to deter criminals and these kids turning into criminals and that will stop all this nonsense.

73. At 12:43pm on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:
============================

er, yes I realised that. Just avoiding the eyes in the sky in an ironic way

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

We have tried all the soft touch and motivational approaches and they have all failed. The problem can be seen at a very early age in any classroom in the country. Unless some strict discipline is imposed and someone is paid to keep an eye on the kids they will all end up in gangs and trouble. We have to be much much tougher at a much earlier age.

82. At 12:46pm on 23 Jun 2010, Peter Nunn wrote:
"#38. At 11:58am on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:
#7 You imply that gangs are associated with our mult-cultural society.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You are livin in a dream Peter. The Jap-Germ etc did not empty their prisons and send them to the UK with the blessing of you know who. Cannot print who as the BBC dont like it so wont print it.

Stop pussyfooting around - put them away. In proper prisons, not in cushy young offenders' institutions; then we'll see how 'tough' they are.

When they start acting like human beings they can come out.

71. At 12:41pm on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:

"While I am not a reader of the The Mail, we need a solution, this is out of control."


Is it though? Is an individual more likely to be the victim of gang-related crime than ever before? Or is it that incidences of other violent crime have gone down, so this is now one of the most significant causes? Our perception (as a country) is that gang related incidents are happening more frequently than ever. But could it not be the case that they are simply more widely reported than ever?

I recommend the book "Risk: The Science and Politics of Fear" by Dan Gardner for anyone who is actually interested in understanding how easy it is for governments, quangos and general media to make us think we are in far more danger than we actually are.

Let’s get one thing straight, It’s not the teenagers who are at fault here it’s us as parents, add to this the slack legal system, bad policing and an anti social society then you just might have a place to start looking at rectifying the problem.

Parents today are workaholics driven by greed for the best and biggest car’s, houses and plasma TV’s, while they work their children are growing up in a world without control and discipline including a lack of love attention and care.

This has all been brought about by the 24/7 working life system introduced by our major supermarket retailers. Mum’s and dad’s no longer have their families interest at heart, they may say they do because they work their arses off to pay for the best things in life but at what cost.

Children need to grow up knowing that they are part of a family, that they are loved and that someone does actually care about them, they also need guidance so they know the difference between right and wrong.

Many parents today are not worthy of their children, they allow them to run around out of control, stay out all hours of the night roaming the streets, drink, smoke and have sex under age, prey tell will this attitude to allowing our offspring’s to do as they wish actually benefit anyone in the long term. NO?

Add to this our slack legal system where jurisdiction is being implemented by those who never have to encounter what we have to encounter as normal everyday living human beings, why because their so far away from the real world living in a world of reality that is not in touch with what we normal people see as justice, they let multiple offenders get away with uncontrollable behaviour time and time again.

This situation is not going to get any better because there is nobody with big enough ball’s to take this issue on, head on. Reducing the working week down to a sensible level would be a good place to start, this way parents could spend more time bringing their children up instead of saving up for the next flash car they thinks makes them look rich and mighty, I think they call it getting a life.

And lastly what about job’s for all these teenagers, where do we actually expect these job’s to come from when we are constantly putting up the retirement age and allowing more immigrants to work in this country. Don’t forget the workaholics either they probably take the place of two workers just so they can buy that next big car or take a nice fat holiday away while the kids are being looked after by the boarding school.

Is it no wonder society is suffering, your doing this yourself, only you can put it right or shall we get the Government to come round and change your nappy. Grow up take responsibility for yourselves and your children, then the rest of us just might be able to walk our streets in safety.

I think we need to make a decision about when children are responsible for their actions. Those 'children' can then be named and shamed for their crimes and pay for any damage done to properties and victims etc. Perhaps they could be forced to work and not allowed to claim any benefits for 10 years or so.

If the criminals are considered too young to be responsible for their actions, then their parents will have to pay for the damage their children do and I don't care if their benefits etc are taken away.

Also, anyone who doesn't respect the human rights of others should be prevented from hiding under the Human Rights Act - an act which should protect victims more than it protects crimnals.

Do we need a strategy to deal with gangs? Nope, just lock 'em up and throw away the key. Also stop feral families from having children. Simplies

Oh dear!

My ironic mention of urban foxes being the solution has been removed.

Now who could it have offended?

Basil Brush, I know you're there, get out immediately and own up, scoundrel

82. At 12:46pm on 23 Jun 2010, Peter Nunn wrote:
"#38. At 11:58am on 23 Jun 2010, Gareth wrote:
#7 You imply that gangs are associated with our mult-cultural society.

Surely we are not allowed to even think this are we? And you have the bravery to commit it to black and white on screen.

However, this is an over simplification.

We have Japanese immigrants - how much trouble do they cause? Chinese? Germans?

I propose that from here, we follow the example of grainsofsand and say it like it is.

Just survey the shootings and gang memberships & you get close to an answer of the root causes.

Not until we quantify the cause can we understand the effects and hope to cure the ills.

This is not intended to be racist by the way, in my opinion the worst offenders are white (non)working class males and females."
_________________________________________________________________________

You very nearly made a valid point, but the sub-liminal liberal in you 'bottled out' at the end and you finished with a comment, which may or may not be true, that is clearly at odds with everything else you have said and not supported by the evidence you have mentioned.
================================================================
You are correct, it was a post script, I bottled out!

I think its very british to blame music, video games, rap music etc, whne the truth is the parents are useless and childlike themselves. When we start to deny un-educated and violent adults to have kids then we may have some change, most parents out there are not fit to raise a budgie never mind a child, the attacks and assaults children face from adults is far higher now then at anytime and the kids have built themselves a defence mechanism! can you imagine how hard it is being a 12 year old male asian in this country with attacks on you personally and their being no hope for achievement! the gang is the only way out as they have been excluded from society before tehy even know what it is!

Being in a gang is really sad and incredibly old fashioned. Its surprising that people still want to do it.
I disagree with the people on here who say we should find more for teenagers to do. We've all been teenagers and all found things to do. If they are really so bored, they could get a part time job, earn cash and spend it on something exciting. There's more to life than hanging around on street corners wearing hoods and doing wheelies on bikes.